|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2314
   |
Posted - 2014.06.23 23:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
So a forge or swarm does the same damage to a dropship as it does to a tank. So CCP. Explain how you feel that two vehicles that have vastly different effective Hit Points should take the same damage from AV?
I defies logic. If swarms or Forges are balanced against tanks, then they are not against dropships. If they are fair against dropships then they are not against tanks.
Are you just pulling damage and resistance numbers from thin air? Because that is what it looks like.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2314
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 23:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
im not saying dropships need to be stronger or tanks weaker but if AV is balanced against one of these vehicles whith the same damage profile... how can it be balanced against the other?
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2315
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 23:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:im not saying dropships need to be stronger. But if AV is balanced against one of these vehicles whith the same damage profile... how can it be balanced against the other? A Stinger missile does the same damage to an Abrams that it would to a Black Hawk if it hits does it not? Are you asking for an arbitrary resistance? Because either way it seems like the result would make one vehicle more powerful than it needs to be.
Can I ask you this question : If AV hits tanks and dropships for the same damage. Yet one can have vastly more HP than the other does this seem like a fair balance or not?
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2315
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 23:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:ADS can lolAB away .
No it cannot. If you think it can, you are not experianced enough in dropships.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2315
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 00:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
I play proto swarms too. I can target dropships much easier than tanks. They are easy to spot, easy to hear, slow to change direction and cannot even look up or behind themselves. Tanks are harder to target due to obstacles getting in the way, faster to change direction, much stronger and can look and fire in a different direction than they face.
These two vehicles are not equal but take equal damage from AV.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2315
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 00:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Not this crap again. Is it just my impression or since the armor dropships lost their god mode vs swarms you are complaining about AV ALOT more? Well its a hard world when crutches are being taken away.
I didn't mention Armour. You did. And it does not matter what changes happen. If imbalance is created no matter the cause, then it should be addressed. So how about you address the topic. Is it balanced that tanks and dropships share the same damage profile?
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2316
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 00:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:Nowadays, when an ADS pilot gets the drop on me (while I have my Forge out), all I have to do is turn around, and *BLAP* then the ADS has to get out of Dodge, even though they caught me with my pants down.
Before Bravo, ADS were the scourge of the sky. Now they just fall out of it in a flaming ball of wreckage. (at least when I am playing)
I'm no pilot, and perhaps I was fighting bad pilots, but something seems off to this AVer.
This is how many pilots feel. BUT at the same time we admit that we are going in the right direction. But we have swung too far this build. The repping Maddi and the Incubus we OP last build. We don't want that back., But right now, ADS are just dropping from the sky.
I play both roles to full proto. I can see it. I have been the first in the past to point out when dropships were OP, then to point out when swarms needed a buff. Now we need to acknowledge that swarms have too much of an upper hand.
I do think they seem about right against tanks though, with the exception of the tracking which needs a slight improvement.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2316
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 00:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:they also do the same damage to lavs. are you going to leave them out of this or what?
I mean av is not just a threat to dropships its athreat to tanks currently as well.
I have not completed my LAV testing. So didn't want to make claims I could not back up.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2341
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 15:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
OP FOTM wrote:they're still not listening to you are they Judge?
Seems not. It is interesting that people think my OP says that dropships need the same defense as tanks. Pop back and read it again. I am actually talking about the fact they take the same damage. These two things sound the same but they are not.
What I am pointing out is that we could tweak AV to do more or less damage to tanks than they do to dropships. Should swarms be stronger against dropships but forges weaker? Should we make tanks weak to forge guns but strong to swarms?
We have to factor the ease at which each AV can track and hit its target and balance AV with this in mind. If all vehicles take the same damage then we are not considering dropships ability to run or tanks ability to take damage. We treat both vehicles the same but they just are not.
I made no claims that I wanted damage reduced. Only that CCP has limited AVs options by making the damage taken the same.
@ tween tween : I actually did upload a video similar to the one you describe. It is not one of the more action filled ones, I'll post one of those later.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2341
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 16:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Why should you take less damage just because you have less HP? Please explain that. Cos I don't go around crying that my scout suit takes too much damage from infantry.
Or more damage. I said nothing about less in the OP.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
|
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2341
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 16:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:
I see absolutely no reason to increase dropship resistance to AV other than to make things inconsistent and confusing for non theorycrafters.
Or decrease....
A tiny tweak in resistance can really help the fine tuning, It helps add to the variables other than say just missile base damage, or missile count.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2342
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 20:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Anyone else like how he flip flopped saying now drop ships should have less defense against swarms since the crowd turned against him
GO read the OP. Stop, then read it again. Then explain to me, so I know you read it the difference between damage profiles and Defence and why they are so different when it comes to balance.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2342
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 21:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:First page, from you, saying things are unfair for drop ships because they take the same damage and the rest of the thread is you saying it needs to be fairr
Nope. You still don't quite get it. Look at the op. I never mentioned dropship weakness in it at all. Then look at my next post where I offer more clarification. I did not mention that things were unfair for dropships. None of those words are there. I never flip flop either. My posts on the first page clearly outline my topic.
The stuff you are talking about is from other people putting their words into my mouth.
I actually say this " If swarms or Forges are balanced against tanks, then they are not against dropships. If they are fair against dropships then they are not against tanks."
See how I do not favor tanks or dropships here. I am talking about total vehicle balance.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2342
|
Posted - 2014.06.27 21:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
I give up. If you can get that from the OP then I do not think it is possible to continue this discussion with you. YOu seem to be reading words that are in your head,not on the screen.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2347
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 07:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:Not being a vehicle person, this entire conversation is a bit lost to me.  However, It seems I am not the only one confused. Judge, your OP post may be clear to you, but I think you need to clarify further what your getting at, preferably with a proposed solution to the problem. You know, CCP Rattati absolutely loves spreadsheets and numbers 
The conversation has gone all over the place. What is has shown is that people don't quite understand vehicle HP/EHP/Resistance and how it has been and is being used as a balance tool.
I know how much each missile does for each swarm build. I also know the shield to armour crossover damage of a swarm missile. This particular value of 259 damage (minmando), as a result of a tanks base 1200 armour is one large cause of balance problems. This threshold itself is very important but I am not sure how many people are aware of it. This is where adding or subtracting as little as 50 points from Armour can keep a tank alive for 1 whole volley more. This is why the tank vs dropships issue is rally important, because an incubus has 960 shields.
I have looked thorough this thread and the forums, and have not seem the correct damage numbers anywhere. People have strong opinions, but need more information.
My video on it, sitting on my desktop, is pretty boreing. I wonder how many people would care to watch another math filled video?
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2347
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 08:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
also.... I cheat anyway in my DEV provided re-skinned flying tank.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2347
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 09:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ill put it out then. I put the math onto the TV screen in the mec quarters, hoping to fool people into thinking it was slightly more interesting.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
|
|
| |
|