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Tanks and Dropships take the same damage. Explain CCP

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Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2314	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:06:00 - [1] - Quote So a forge or swarm does the same damage to a dropship as it does to a tank. So CCP. Explain how you feel that two vehicles that have vastly different effective Hit Points should take the same damage from AV? I defies logic. If swarms or Forges are balanced against tanks, then they are not against dropships. If they are fair against dropships then they are not against tanks. Are you just pulling damage and resistance numbers from thin air? Because that is what it looks like. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11056	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:12:00 - [2] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: So a forge or swarm does the same damage to a dropship as it does to a tank. So CCP. Explain how you feel that two vehicles that have vastly different effective Hit Points should take the same damage from AV? I defies logic. If swarms or Forges are balanced against tanks, then they are not against dropships. If they are fair against dropships then they are not against tanks. Are you just pulling damage and resistance numbers from thin air? Because that is what it looks like. AH Now I understand. But what do you propose? Giving dropships arbitrary bonuses is ridiculous in my mind. I mean if a weapon can deal X damage to a tank which is more heavily armoured it should do the same to a dropship which is less armoured. Please elaborate further so I dont make a stupid comment. " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5383	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:19:00 - [3] - Quote I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say is wrong. Are you saying HAVs should be harder to damage? pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11057	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:23:00 - [4] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say is wrong. Are you saying HAVs should be harder to damage? No I think he is saying ADS need to be harder to damage by limiting the amount of damage AV options can do against them for some reason..... though I could be wrong...post isn't clear. " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1485	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:23:00 - [5] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say is wrong. Are you saying HAVs should be harder to damage? the opposite i'm pretty sure. Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Beld Errmon 1702	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:24:00 - [6] - Quote I would suggest that Assault dropships are a tech 2 vehicle and should have a different resist profile too ordinary dropships. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2314	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:24:00 - [7] - Quote im not saying dropships need to be stronger or tanks weaker but if AV is balanced against one of these vehicles whith the same damage profile... how can it be balanced against the other? Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11058	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:29:00 - [8] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: im not saying dropships need to be stronger. But if AV is balanced against one of these vehicles whith the same damage profile... how can it be balanced against the other? A Stinger missile does the same damage to an Abrams that it would to a Black Hawk if it hits does it not? Are you asking for an arbitrary resistance? Because either way it seems like the result would make one vehicle more powerful than it needs to be. " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3055	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:31:00 - [9] - Quote Movement speed? ADS can lolAB away while Tanks cannot. If anything its Fuel Injectors which are imbalance, not arbitrary resistance against AV for ADS. Its a freaking dropship, are you seriously trying to argue that the TTK should be similar to a HEAVY Assault Vehicle? That's like trying to argue that brick tanked heavy suits should have the same TTK from an AR as an EWAR scout. Different roles on the field dictate different TTKs.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11058	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:31:00 - [10] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: I would suggest that Assault dropships are a tech 2 vehicle and should have a different resist profile too ordinary dropships. BAM right on the money there Beld. For clarification A T1 Punisher might have armour resistances of 30% against Explosive Damage (the main minmatar damage type) While a T2 Retribution will have an 87.5% Resistance to Explosive Damage against Armour. Just like a Wolf, Minmatar Rifer T2 hull, has a 90% resistance against EM, the Amarr main damage type, for its shields. However this would then imply that HAV T2 hulls would have increased resistances to specific damage types as well. " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2315	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:32:00 - [11] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: im not saying dropships need to be stronger. But if AV is balanced against one of these vehicles whith the same damage profile... how can it be balanced against the other? A Stinger missile does the same damage to an Abrams that it would to a Black Hawk if it hits does it not? Are you asking for an arbitrary resistance? Because either way it seems like the result would make one vehicle more powerful than it needs to be. Can I ask you this question : If AV hits tanks and dropships for the same damage. Yet one can have vastly more HP than the other does this seem like a fair balance or not? Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2315	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:34:00 - [12] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: ADS can lolAB away . No it cannot. If you think it can, you are not experianced enough in dropships. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 302	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:35:00 - [13] - Quote Just give the ADS an increase to cpu and power grid and also one extra high/low slot. Done fixed. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3055	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:36:00 - [14] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: ADS can lolAB away . No it cannot. If you think it can, you are not experianced enough in dropships. Dropships can't use afterburners? That's new. Was that changed in HF Bravo? And the rest of my post?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11058	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:39:00 - [15] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: True Adamance wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: im not saying dropships need to be stronger. But if AV is balanced against one of these vehicles whith the same damage profile... how can it be balanced against the other? A Stinger missile does the same damage to an Abrams that it would to a Black Hawk if it hits does it not? Are you asking for an arbitrary resistance? Because either way it seems like the result would make one vehicle more powerful than it needs to be. Can I ask you this question : If AV hits tanks and dropships for the same damage. Yet one can have vastly more HP than the other does this seem like a fair balance or not? No its not fair, but neither vehicle is designed to fulfil the others role. The advantage of an HAV would in this case be its armoured hull, which should absorb fire. The cost being mobility and lack of ability to engage close range targets both aerial and on ground. The advantage of a Dropship should be its mobility, fire power, and aerial nature. The cost being less durability. To be fair I cannot argue Dropship semantics with you, so I defer to you on dropship matters, but I'm not going to agree that ADS are useless. They are the most dangerous (but not OP) thing on most maps right now. " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9775	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:42:00 - [16] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Can I ask you this question : If AV hits tanks and dropships for the same damage. Yet one can have vastly more HP than the other does this seem like a fair balance or not? I think it's fair in the sense that the ADS is better in terms of speed and maneuverability, while the HAV has less speed and torque in comparison. A similar balance model is found in Infantry, where weapons deal the same amount of damage to a target regardless of frame, but is balanced in the sense that the lighter the frame, the better the chances it has at evading danger. What exactly are you trying to say? I want SLAVs, not SLAVEs. "Many things in life are subjective, morality is one of them..." -HAND
Takahashi Kashuken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:57:00 - [17] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: ADS can lolAB away . No it cannot. If you think it can, you are not experianced enough in dropships. Yes it can lolAB away because i do it a hell of a lot Judge just hovers 100m from the point and thinks hes safe and then wonders why he gets killed by adv swarms Anyone who uses a ADS generally will fit an ADS to GTFO of danger
Michael Arck 4845	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:02:00 - [18] - Quote Takahashi Kashuken wrote: Judge just hovers 100m from the point and thinks hes safe and then wonders why he gets killed by adv swarms I thought I was the only one who noticed this dilemma Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2315	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:02:00 - [19] - Quote I play proto swarms too. I can target dropships much easier than tanks. They are easy to spot, easy to hear, slow to change direction and cannot even look up or behind themselves. Tanks are harder to target due to obstacles getting in the way, faster to change direction, much stronger and can look and fire in a different direction than they face. These two vehicles are not equal but take equal damage from AV. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3305	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:03:00 - [20] - Quote Not this crap again. Is it just my impression or since the armor dropships lost their godmode vs swarms you are complaining about AV ALOT more? Well its a hard world when crutches are beeing taken away.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11061	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:05:00 - [21] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Not this crap again. Is it just my impression or since the armor dropships lost their godmode vs swarms you are complaining about AV ALOT more? Well its a hard world when crutches are beeing taken away. facepalms...... No tankers, myself included, should ever talk about crutches..... " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III*
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 302	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:08:00 - [22] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Not this crap again. Is it just my impression or since the armor dropships lost their godmode vs swarms you are complaining about AV ALOT more? Well its a hard world when crutches are beeing taken away. No it makes the python easy to one shoot out of the sky now. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2315	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:08:00 - [23] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Not this crap again. Is it just my impression or since the armor dropships lost their god mode vs swarms you are complaining about AV ALOT more? Well its a hard world when crutches are being taken away. I didn't mention Armour. You did. And it does not matter what changes happen. If imbalance is created no matter the cause, then it should be addressed. So how about you address the topic. Is it balanced that tanks and dropships share the same damage profile? Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Takahashi Kashuken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:12:00 - [24] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I play proto swarms too. I can target dropships much easier than tanks. They are easy to spot, easy to hear, slow to change direction and cannot even look up or behind themselves. Tanks are harder to target due to obstacles getting in the way, faster to change direction, much stronger and can look and fire in a different direction than they face. These two vehicles are not equal but take equal damage from AV. I play proto swarms - Confirmed no skill scrub with a fire and forget weapon I can target dropships much easier than tanks - Gee i wonder why? is it because they are flying in the sky where as a tank is on the ground and can hide behind a million objects They are easier to spot - Gee i wonder why? is it because they are flying in the empty sky? Easy to hear - Everything is easy to hear when you have the TV sound on Slow to change direction - Only slow if the pilot is slow Cannot even look up or behind themselves - Why do you need to look up? Why do you need to look behind? Faster to change direction - No Fire in a different direction than they face - You want a turret on top of the ADS now? These two vehicles are not equal but take equal damage from AV - Didnt you make that video where you showed and proved that DS take less damage?
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 976	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:15:00 - [25] - Quote Nowadays, when an ADS pilot gets the drop on me (while I have my Forge out), all I have to do is turn around, and BLAP then the ADS has to get out of Dodge, even though they caught me with my pants down. Before Bravo, ADS were the scourge of the sky. Now they just fall out of it in a flaming ball of wreckage. (at least when I am playing) I'm no pilot, and perhaps I was fighting bad pilots, but something seems off to this AVer. I am a minotaur.
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2361	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:16:00 - [26] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: True Adamance wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: im not saying dropships need to be stronger. But if AV is balanced against one of these vehicles whith the same damage profile... how can it be balanced against the other? A Stinger missile does the same damage to an Abrams that it would to a Black Hawk if it hits does it not? Are you asking for an arbitrary resistance? Because either way it seems like the result would make one vehicle more powerful than it needs to be. Can I ask you this question : If AV hits tanks and dropships for the same damage. Yet one can have vastly more HP than the other does this seem like a fair balance or not? ADS can hit afterburner and be far out of range within seconds. Tanker/Logi
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11061	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:17:00 - [27] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Not this crap again. Is it just my impression or since the armor dropships lost their god mode vs swarms you are complaining about AV ALOT more? Well its a hard world when crutches are being taken away. I didn't mention Armour. You did. And it does not matter what changes happen. If imbalance is created no matter the cause, then it should be addressed. So how about you address the topic. Is it balanced that tanks and dropships share the same damage profile? Personally yes and no. No mainly because it harkens to the ship signature system in EVE where large weapons cannot easily hit small ships, meaning fast and small ships can wholly evade the large ones guns. Yes because you have the main advantage of not being tied to a single platform. DS can move freely in the skies as they wish and have the advanage to looking down on a foe. I think more logically that yes a DS should be downed more easily than a tank providing the shots hit the targets because DS have and are designed to have less armour. If a rocket clips a small helicopter (Littlebird) it goes down. If a Rocket hits a tank it can cripple its movement systems or destroy the think in one go. Being a smaller, less armoured helicopter does not alter the missiles destructive capacity. But given that yes the ADS is essentially a T2 hull I could give concessions regarding hull damage resistances as long as you are willing to accept that other T2 hulls like LAV and HAV would receive similar benefits. " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
JudgeIsABadPilot Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:17:00 - [28] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: ADS can lolAB away . No it cannot. If you think it can, you are not experianced enough in dropships. You must have really slow reaction time, then. Practice makes almost perfect, and you're far from good enough.
Mors The Butcher Red Star. EoN. 20	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:21:00 - [29] - Quote @ judge ive seen you use your dropship and die its awesome and funny and read my sig \ I'M SORRY..... I'M SORRY FOR EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU... ....AND EVERYTHING THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2316	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:22:00 - [30] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Nowadays, when an ADS pilot gets the drop on me (while I have my Forge out), all I have to do is turn around, and BLAP then the ADS has to get out of Dodge, even though they caught me with my pants down. Before Bravo, ADS were the scourge of the sky. Now they just fall out of it in a flaming ball of wreckage. (at least when I am playing) I'm no pilot, and perhaps I was fighting bad pilots, but something seems off to this AVer. This is how many pilots feel. BUT at the same time we admit that we are going in the right direction. But we have swung too far this build. The repping Maddi and the Incubus we OP last build. We don't want that back., But right now, ADS are just dropping from the sky. I play both roles to full proto. I can see it. I have been the first in the past to point out when dropships were OP, then to point out when swarms needed a buff. Now we need to acknowledge that swarms have too much of an upper hand. I do think they seem about right against tanks though, with the exception of the tracking which needs a slight improvement. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion



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