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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
mr musturd
0uter.Heaven
482
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Posted - 2014.06.06 23:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
Never ever ever allow a sprint while charged mechanic the only thing they need is the same aim assistance that the melee uses and possibly a very small range increase NOT a lunge mechanic. But seriously sprint while charge is one sure way to make knives OP, people can hate me all they want for this comment but its not needed for me to be able to sprint at the speed of light and 1hko everything in sight. As for the changes in Alpha I haven't noticed any real difference |
mr musturd
0uter.Heaven
482
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Posted - 2014.06.06 23:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Alright, due to me actually looking into this a bit more I've actually found a few other things I would like to try tweaking before reducing backwards movement speed (which does on second thought have a much wider impact across the game than just chasing someone with Nova Knives).
Two things I want to try first are slightly increasing the range (currently 2 meters) and turning on aim adhesion for Nova Knives (to help you track targets at close quarters). I could also adjust the angle you do damage in, but I'm hesitant to increase it, not without trying the other two out first at least.
The other dial I've seen I can tweak is the delay between when you release the trigger and when you make your two hits. I can lower that a bit without affecting the time between "shots", but I'm not sure how helpful that's going to be.
This 100% and the delay decrease would be much more helpful than you think trust me on this if you could tweak it down to around melee time it'd help a ton. Before changing backpedaling speeds implement the other changes and knives will be close to perfect |
BLOOD Ruler
The Lionheart Coalition
316
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Posted - 2014.06.07 08:13:00 -
[63] - Quote
No just sprint charge what their are 2 clones and I choose the weak so I may then kill the strong.The strong gets in the way of the weak kill him but weak aces me.Just sprint charge.Use a knive yourself
Taste my knives
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
91
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Posted - 2014.06.07 08:57:00 -
[64] - Quote
mr musturd wrote:Never ever ever allow a sprint while charged mechanic the only thing they need is the same aim assistance that the melee uses and possibly a very small range increase NOT a lunge mechanic. But seriously sprint while charge is one sure way to make knives OP, people can hate me all they want for this comment but its not needed for me to be able to sprint at the speed of light and 1hko everything in sight. As for the changes in Alpha I haven't noticed any real difference
As much as it would make life so much easier and I'd abuse the **** out of it, I agree with mustard. Despite my own posts initially loving the idea.
It'd make effective knifing too easy. It would make it FOTM. Suddenly IshNoks and KinKats doing 1580 damage to anyone and everyone they can sprint past. No.
Do not want.
I also don't like the idea of widening the angle I do damage in. I haven't had that much trouble (when I get in range to strike without dying first to their bricktanked shotgun scout - wasn't Alpha supposed to nerf/discourage that whole thing?) and I'm concerned that making it a wider effective angle would also serve to make it too easy, leading to the FOTM risk.
I'm uncertain on the range increase... it'd be convenient, but I'm not certain I really need it. Better hit detection (or maybe this is actually the aim mechanic mentioned playing tricks on me?) would be sweet.
The delay adjustment would make me worship you as my personal lord and saviour (ingame m8m8 o7o7)
Just don't make my Minja w/ Knives FOTM. The cloak nerf ****** my minja suit enough already since I'm not at Complex Damps yet, I don't need my knives becoming OP and subsequently getting my favorite method of hunting (kdr be damned!) getting nerfed further.
You gave us a hacking bonus without giving us the range or precision to see who's at the point before we proceed (unless we run with no shields).
You gave us the role of assassin with the bonus to knife damage, without giving us the low profile to remain undetected by our prey (unless we run with no armor).
Fine. Be that way. But you just make sure that you be careful fixing our suicidal favorite weapon's minor problems by making minor fixes only, please. It shouldn't be as easy as cloak/shotgun. It should be a lot trickier, a lot more difficult - and it is. I'm saying it should stay that way. We put our clones on the line for every kill we get. Risk vs. Reward, isn't that one of CCP's maxims? Sprint-charging and a wider angle of effect would mitigate a lot of the risk... do not want.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG.
Unless Mal says no :(
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BLOOD Ruler
The Lionheart Coalition
316
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Posted - 2014.06.07 09:17:00 -
[65] - Quote
Do you have any idea how hard it his to knife the enemy, only like a few people will use it everybody else will just use a shotgun,an combat rifle.It would still be hard even while sprinting,but at least you can run.
Taste my knives
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
93
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Posted - 2014.06.07 09:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
I already run. The charge only takes a heartbeat.
I'm sick of seeing shotgun scouts. I can only imagine how sick I'd be if all the skill-less shotgun scouts (I'm NOT saying every scout with a shotty is a scrub... just most of 'em) were suddenly knifing.
As it is now, knives are pretty effective, just slightly quirky. And very risky. To be a good knifer, you gotta want it.
EDIT: I'm almost there. I'm a 'decent' knifer at the moment... working on getting good :p
Jaceon Pale-eye.
Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG.
Unless Mal says no :(
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BLOOD Ruler
The Lionheart Coalition
319
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Posted - 2014.06.07 10:58:00 -
[67] - Quote
Right-wing Extremist wrote:I already run. The charge only takes a heartbeat.
I'm sick of seeing shotgun scouts. I can only imagine how sick I'd be if all the skill-less shotgun scouts (I'm NOT saying every scout with a shotty is a scrub... just most of 'em) were suddenly knifing.
As it is now, knives are pretty effective, just slightly quirky. And very risky. To be a good knifer, you gotta want it.
EDIT: I'm almost there. I'm a 'decent' knifer at the moment... working on getting good :p
Only the good shotguners will try to knife the rest of the scrubs will stick to the shotgun.Scrubs will try to only give up when they die 2-3 times
Taste my knives
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
95
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Posted - 2014.06.07 11:07:00 -
[68] - Quote
lol fair enough, Blood. o7
Jaceon Pale-eye.
Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG.
Unless Mal says no :(
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BLOOD Ruler
The Lionheart Coalition
326
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Posted - 2014.06.07 11:10:00 -
[69] - Quote
Good now.....sprint charge
Taste my knives
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Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2014.06.07 11:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
This just shows how much you DON'T know about this game CCP.
If you're not a Minja, you should suck at knifing. Minja doesn't care about or notice a speed change in the victim.
Anything else shouldn't be able to knife scouts. Period. And they really shouldn't have much trouble knifing mediums unless they don't have a kin cat, which is also stupid.
My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1
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BLOOD Ruler
The Lionheart Coalition
326
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Posted - 2014.06.07 11:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote:This just shows how much you DON'T know about this game CCP.
If you're not a Minja, you should suck at knifing. Minja doesn't care about or notice a speed change in the victim.
Anything else shouldn't be able to knife scouts. Period. And they really shouldn't have much trouble knifing mediums unless they don't have a kin cat, which is also stupid.
I don't see any Minjas,only combat rifle,so I use the knives
Taste my knives
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
3484
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Posted - 2014.06.07 16:53:00 -
[72] - Quote
I don't believe that a sprint charge is necessary.
I think that a more eloquent (less potential to be OP) change would be to decrease the delay between release of the trigger and the strike. This will address the chase down problem as it will lower the pause in which people move out of range. This will also effect backpeddlers as they will not gain ground as you swipe. Couple this with a slight increase to range (2.5m???) and we should be in a very good place, where Nova Knives still require skill and practice, but have an increased utility.
I see this as a proper solution without going overboard.
Optimization? PG requirements? Officer Nova Knife?
KRRROOOOOOM
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1492
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Posted - 2014.06.07 16:53:00 -
[73] - Quote
mr musturd wrote:Never ever ever allow a sprint while charged mechanic
Musturd has spoken.
Moody has said the same on a number of occasions.
Please let's not ignore subject matter experts.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Tesfa Alem
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
RISE of LEGION
138
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Posted - 2014.06.07 16:57:00 -
[74] - Quote
Well, what sticks out to me is Nova Knives are by nature siderarms best suited to ambushing players, and seem to be able to do alot of damage as is. They out to be treated as such. If you get the drop on me i'm toast, even in my heavy suit. If you got to take a bunch of swings, well sorry you lost the advatage of surprise, i'm dancing too so you lost accuraccy as well.
To be honest i don't Nova knife alot, i'll try out my adv ones for a bit. I have cut down an minmatar scout with knives on my minmatar heavy though  
I like the proposed decrease in backwards movement speed, it would cut down on all kinds of ridiculous sprint strafing moves. (scouts i'm looking right at you ). Less twitch is aways a good thing, becuase i can spaz out and hip fire with greater accuraccy than when aiming down the sights.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
7962
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Posted - 2014.06.07 17:22:00 -
[75] - Quote
A few more things to add.
I can look at adding an optimisation skill for Nova Knives to reduce PG usage (CPU is already covered by sidearm operation).
The progression between Standard, Advanced and Prototype Nova Knives for their charge time is a bit out of whack. It currently goes 1.5, 1.0, 0.8. I'm considering changing it to 1.0, 0.9, 0.8. Can anyone see any big issues or feel that this would greatly diminish the value of getting better knives?
Similar to charge time, the damage progression is also not smooth, going 90, 150, 200. This one is easier to fix just by bumping up standard damage by 10.
I'm also open to suggestions for another Nova Knife skill to improve them. Before anyone suggests it, I am hesitant to make them affect how often you can swing them. My personal first thought on this was reduction in swap time for Nova Knives, but this is already very low at 0.12 seconds so I don't think this would be all too useful.
And just a reminder: These are things I'm exploring, I'm not saying they're coming for sure to Bravo (and your feedback and thoughts are likely to influence that)
CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites
(a¦á_a¦á)
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5977
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Posted - 2014.06.07 17:32:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:A few more things to add.
I can look at adding an optimisation skill for Nova Knives to reduce PG usage (CPU is already covered by sidearm operation).
The progression between Standard, Advanced and Prototype Nova Knives for their charge time is a bit out of whack. It currently goes 1.5, 1.0, 0.8. I'm considering changing it to 1.0, 0.9, 0.8. Can anyone see any big issues or feel that this would greatly diminish the value of getting better knives?
Similar to charge time, the damage progression is also not smooth, going 90, 150, 200. This one is easier to fix just by bumping up standard damage by 10.
I'm also open to suggestions for another Nova Knife skill to improve them. Before anyone suggests it, I am hesitant to make them affect how often you can swing them. My personal first thought on this was reduction in swap time for Nova Knives, but this is already very low at 0.12 seconds so I don't think this would be all too useful.
And just a reminder: These are things I'm exploring, I'm not saying they're coming for sure to Bravo (and your feedback and thoughts are likely to influence that)
Is there a way to provide a skill to increase non-charged strike damage..? That'd be pretty interesting, IMO, and would allow more for hit-and-run style play without the necessity of having to slow down to charge up the knives since the player can't sprint/charge and the same time.
I dunno. Just a thought. I don't use them enough to be honest. Think they'd be fine with a bit more aim adhesion and attack angle (though I really wish Wolfman had gone forward with his proposal to add a dash-forward style attack).
Useful Links
Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
3485
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Posted - 2014.06.07 17:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:A few more things to add.
I can look at adding an optimisation skill for Nova Knives to reduce PG usage (CPU is already covered by sidearm operation).
The progression between Standard, Advanced and Prototype Nova Knives for their charge time is a bit out of whack. It currently goes 1.5, 1.0, 0.8. I'm considering changing it to 1.0, 0.9, 0.8. Can anyone see any big issues or feel that this would greatly diminish the value of getting better knives?
Similar to charge time, the damage progression is also not smooth, going 90, 150, 200. This one is easier to fix just by bumping up standard damage by 10.
I'm also open to suggestions for another Nova Knife skill to improve them. Before anyone suggests it, I am hesitant to make them affect how often you can swing them. My personal first thought on this was reduction in swap time for Nova Knives, but this is already very low at 0.12 seconds so I don't think this would be all too useful.
And just a reminder: These are things I'm exploring, I'm not saying they're coming for sure to Bravo (and your feedback and thoughts are likely to influence that)
Optimization for PG is pretty much what is needed for Minjas, as the suit is PG starved.
I don't think the change to charge time or damage across tiers will adversely effect the use of Proto knives with the numbers you propose. It has been a common point of discussion that Basics are useless, and Advanced are not up to par either. 10 Points of damage to basic brings it neatly in line with the others and with the multiplier potential it makes them almost decent, but the charge time will be where you see a real change. Most Knifers will not touch the Basic right now and I don't think you will see an upsurge in their usage by Veteran Knifers, but it will give new Knifers a bit less frustrationGǪ a bit.
@ Aeon - I think that a reduced time between the release of the trigger will give the effect you are describing. I like the idea.
KRRROOOOOOM
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TRULY ELITE
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
21
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Posted - 2014.06.07 17:57:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Hello those of us that like to stab
In Hotfix Alpha we made a change where you no longer slow down enemies when they are hit. This change also extends to the Nova Knife.
I was just looking for feedback from those that knife on whether you now find it harder to consistently hit people, and whether we might need to bring it back just for the Nova Knife.
Edit: Seems that the changes haven't broken anything for anyone. Mission success!
This thread is now about the changes I'm looking at for Bravo, namely increasing the range of Nova Knives from 2m and turning on aim adhesion. Timing for strikes is also on the table.
I'd say being able to charge the knives when sprinting but keeping the range or increase the range and don't add sprint charging |
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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
7966
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Posted - 2014.06.07 18:08:00 -
[79] - Quote
Oh, and I forgot to mention. If I were to make some officer Nova Knives, I would need a name to put on them.
CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites
(a¦á_a¦á)
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mr musturd
0uter.Heaven
492
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Posted - 2014.06.07 18:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention. If I were to make some officer Nova Knives, I would need a name to put on them.
Ill knife duel you for it  |
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
3486
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Posted - 2014.06.07 18:25:00 -
[81] - Quote
mr musturd wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention. If I were to make some officer Nova Knives, I would need a name to put on them. Ill knife duel you for it
FRONT ROW FOR THAT
These Officer knives will be so bad ass we will call them Mr
KRRROOOOOOM
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5978
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Posted - 2014.06.07 18:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention. If I were to make some officer Nova Knives, I would need a name to put on them.
Visera's CNF-7 Nova Knives
Yanala's LTS-5 Nova Knives
For those who don't know, Visera Yanala was the Caldari Fleet Admiral who died during Operation Highlander during the Battle of Caldari Prime.
Related news articles:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/shiigeru-telemetry-data-vindicates-admiral-yanala/
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/admiral-yanala-being-widely-hailed-as-a-hero/
Useful Links
Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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mr musturd
0uter.Heaven
493
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Posted - 2014.06.07 18:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
Noooo Aeon don't give logical answers this time! I want musturd knives!!! |
Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
9187
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Posted - 2014.06.07 19:38:00 -
[84] - Quote
If this hasn't been mentioned earlier in the thread, would being able to hold a charge while sprinting be possible?
Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical.
Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub.
-HAND
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Appia Nappia
876
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Posted - 2014.06.07 19:48:00 -
[85] - Quote
I like the sound of Visera's Nova Knives.
Secretly Appia Vibbia
If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
102
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Posted - 2014.06.07 19:59:00 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:A few more things to add.
I can look at adding an optimisation skill for Nova Knives to reduce PG usage (CPU is already covered by sidearm operation).
The progression between Standard, Advanced and Prototype Nova Knives for their charge time is a bit out of whack. It currently goes 1.5, 1.0, 0.8. I'm considering changing it to 1.0, 0.9, 0.8. Can anyone see any big issues or feel that this would greatly diminish the value of getting better knives?
Diminishes value of getting better knives AND investing SP in the skill itself, besides. Charge time is fine.
Quote:Similar to charge time, the damage progression is also not smooth, going 90, 150, 200. This one is easier to fix just by bumping up standard damage by 10.
Acceptable, though not necessary imo.
Jaceon Pale-eye.
Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG.
Unless Mal says no :(
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
564
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Posted - 2014.06.07 20:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Oh, and I forgot to mention. If I were to make some officer Nova Knives, I would need a name to put on them. Somebody find me a person named "Butter" and make him a hero of Dust 514. Do it now! We need those butter knives in game!
Edit:
To properly judge the value of the STD knives' damage I'd need a refresher on the total damage when charged up. Can anyone help out with tested/proven numbers?
In my opinion a STD knife should deal some ~500 damage. Not enough to kill an ADV medium fitting, but good enough to have fun in low-tier matches. Maybe you should sample some actual STD tier fittings from TQ and figure out how much damage a STD knifer would need to deal to kill most of them. |
Francois Sanchez
What The French
Red Whines.
24
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Posted - 2014.06.07 20:15:00 -
[88] - Quote
TRULY ELITE wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Hello those of us that like to stab
In Hotfix Alpha we made a change where you no longer slow down enemies when they are hit. This change also extends to the Nova Knife.
I was just looking for feedback from those that knife on whether you now find it harder to consistently hit people, and whether we might need to bring it back just for the Nova Knife.
Edit: Seems that the changes haven't broken anything for anyone. Mission success!
This thread is now about the changes I'm looking at for Bravo, namely increasing the range of Nova Knives from 2m and turning on aim adhesion. Timing for strikes is also on the table. I'd say being able to charge the knives when sprinting but keeping the range or increase the range and don't add sprint charging
Never allow charging while running, I'm using NK all the time, they don't need that and that would be way too powerful. If your problem is to walk during the last meters, sprint, jump and charge the knives while in flight.
A range buff... maybe 2.5 instead of 2, but not more because they're knives, not swords.
Personally I don't mind if the knives remain as they are now in terms of mechanic, however one or two extra skills would be cool. Fitting optimization would be really useful as minjas don't have much PG available. Maybe we could solve the range problem (if there is one, personally I don't think so) by adding a skill that increases the range by 8% per level
If you want to modify something to make the knives more reliable, maybe a bit of extra aim assist because the main cause of failure is the random step aside of your target. But again I don't think it's needed at all, what I like with my knives is that they need training and skill to be used well (and I love stabbing people too  )
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
1823
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Posted - 2014.06.07 20:39:00 -
[89] - Quote
Nothi Knives?
The REAL Internet King
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
104
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Posted - 2014.06.07 21:42:00 -
[90] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:To properly judge the value of the STD knives' damage I'd need a refresher on the total damage when charged up. Can anyone help out with tested/proven numbers?
In my opinion a STD knife should deal some ~500 damage. Not enough to kill an ADV medium fitting, but good enough to have fun in low-tier matches. Maybe you should sample some actual STD tier fittings from TQ and figure out how much damage a STD knifer would need to deal to kill most of them.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2191627#post2191627
Minja exceeds 500 damage with STD knives at Scout level 3 (comes close to 500 at Scout 2, about 470 at Scout 1), assuming no proficiency (or else why would you still be using STD knives at all?)
At Scout 1, NK 1, using STD knives on STD scout, I was killing anything that wasn't an ADV or PRO suit pretty reliably, except heavies/commandos/sentinels. ADV knives opened my target envelope to include ADV heavies/commandoes, Sentinels take a bit more (usually just a followup swipe (uncharged) after both knives hit charged.
One Eyed King wrote:Nothi Knives?
This. 
Jaceon Pale-eye.
Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG.
Unless Mal says no :(
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