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DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:30:00 - [1] - Quote Test out increased head shot damage.. and / or slightly increased base damage on prototype rifles to fix the required amount of shots against proto suits.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 637	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:36:00 - [2] - Quote only if you come out of the redline...
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8842	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:37:00 - [3] - Quote Which reminds me. I should have that thread I was talking about made in about an hour or so. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8842	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:38:00 - [4] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: only if you come out of the redline... Fallacious drivel is fallacious. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3969	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:39:00 - [5] - Quote The very, very, very last thing Dust needs right now is more passive, campy gameplay. Level 3 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:40:00 - [6] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: only if you come out of the redline... I don't snipe from the red line.. you get way less kills from the red line generally. THAT MAKES ZERO SENSE! I HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO RUN PROTOTYPE OUTSIDE OF THE RED LINE EVERY MATCH.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:41:00 - [7] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: The very, very, very last thing Dust needs right now is more passive, campy gameplay. It needs a counter to passive, campy gameplay.. 1. HEAVIES IN HALLWAYS 2. CLOAKED SCOUTS. what should nail them both into oblivion? SNIPERS.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 293	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:42:00 - [8] - Quote My 'Templar' ScR four-shots untanked MLT Caldari Mediums. A bricked Assault ck.0 can take up to 13 shots from a prof 5 Viziam, assuming all my shots land. Why, exactly, should sniper rifles be any different? MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:44:00 - [9] - Quote because yours isn't a sniper rifle? it can AIM DOWN SIGHTS and hip fire with way more accuracy.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 293	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:46:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: boba's fetta wrote: Fallacious drivel While the statement is absolutely an example of said fallacy, your dismissing it is an equally good example of a straw man. The sniper rifle is absolutely abused by redline campers. You cannot deny this. The general drop in sniper rifle effectiveness has led to a drop in their usage, absolutely, but the fact remains: throughout DUST's history redline campers have made up a large proportion of snipers. Buffing the sniper rifle without addressing this core issue is no more than aiding and abetting. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1

Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 295	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:49:00 - [11] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: because yours isn't a sniper rifle? it can AIM DOWN SIGHTS and hip fire with way more accuracy. It takes me three times as long to kill the red. I'm in a highly dangerous position while doing it (i.e. IN FRONT OF HIM) whereas you are sitting pretty 3-600 metres away. You can kill things as quickly as me when you come down with the test of us. And you're missing the point. It takes me near enough to three times as long to kill the ck.0 (I'm not prof 5). Why should a sniper rifle be able to do it more quickly, aside from "it's a ~~tank~~ sniper rifle"? MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:52:00 - [12] - Quote Red Line Snipers 1. Not combat effective (generally very low kill counts) 2. If they concern you, counter them. (ADS, Tank, Sniper, OB) 3. Most of them are bad, the best sniping locations are outside of the red line You shouldn't get worked up defending the player base who refuses to counter snipers, or are too hapless and will consistently stand still so a sniper 500+ meters away can take an easy shot at them.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:53:00 - [13] - Quote If you're getting killed by red line snipers you're probably winning the match anyway..
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 637	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:58:00 - [14] - Quote while its true that some snipers do come out of the redline i havnt seen many and i doubt you have either. yeah yeah just because i didnt see them doesnt mean they were not there. what i can say is that when ive been shot by a sniper the fire 9/10 times comes from the redline. so sorry to say this but your acusation this time lacks merit. we all know the redline is an issue and that sniper rifle is the weapon most used to fire from the redline. and you could post something a little bit more useful than links to explantion i already know and understand. and to think you were almostan amusing troll. 1/10 for effort.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:59:00 - [15] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: DJINN GITAXIS wrote: because yours isn't a sniper rifle? it can AIM DOWN SIGHTS and hip fire with way more accuracy. It takes me three times as long to kill the red. I'm in a highly dangerous position while doing it (i.e. IN FRONT OF HIM) whereas you are sitting pretty 3-600 metres away. You can kill things as quickly as me when you come down with the test of us. And you're missing the point. It takes me near enough to three times as long to kill the ck.0 (I'm not prof 5). Why should a sniper rifle be able to do it more quickly, aside from "it's a ~~tank~~ sniper rifle"? You can spam fire until dead.. (Every shot is a skill shot for me) Chase down your target.. (I only have a limited view) You can utilize a cloak.. (might as well be hiding in the hills) Your dangerous position isn't dangerous at all against most of the people left playing this game.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:01:00 - [16] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: while its true that some snipers do come out of the redline i havnt seen many and i doubt you have either. yeah yeah just because i didnt see them doesnt mean they were not there. what i can say is that when ive been shot by a sniper the fire 9/10 times comes from the redline. so sorry to say this but your acusation this time lacks merit. we all know the redline is an issue and that sniper rifle is the weapon most used to fire from the redline. and you could post something a little bit more useful than links to explantion i already know and understand. and to think you were almostan amusing troll. 1/10 for effort. and 9/10 times you shrug off the damage they do.. it's an annoyance at best to let you know there's a sniper.. they're not generally actively pinning you down.. you just figure out how to avoid them.. it's pretty simple.. run a cloak.. switch to heavy.. those are effective passive counters.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:03:00 - [17] - Quote a slight buff to sniper rifle headshot damage won't buff red line snipers hardly at all.. 400-500 meters away your head is smaller than the dot in the center of the screen.. it would reward the snipers who are much closer. seems fair.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8844	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:04:00 - [18] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: My 'Templar' ScR four-shots untanked MLT Caldari Mediums. A bricked Assault ck.0 can take up to 13 shots from a prof 5 Viziam, assuming all my shots land. This isn't a valid argument, because the RoF on the Scrambler Rifle is far higher than that of the Sniper Rifle. With 705.88 RPM, you can fire 11 shots in a single second, while the Sniper Rifle can only fire 1 shot. That would be like saying Combat Rifles are underpowered because they take 4-5 bursts to kill a target, while a Forge Gun only requires one shot. ((However, it should be noted that the Scrambler Rifle is Semi-Automatic, meaning that the RoF can vary from person to person, and it should also be noted that I used the Kaalakiota Tactical Sniper Rifle's RoF in my comparison.)) Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Why, exactly, should sniper rifles be any different? Because unlike the SCR, the Sniper Rifle doesn't have a 45 round magazine, and using a Sniper Rifle requires you to go into a "tunnelvision" view where you lose most situational awareness capabilities; making you easy prey for a Scout or anyone with a Scanner. Because unlike the SCR, Sniper Rifles have [virtually] no effectiveness in CQC, and highly restricted efficency in mid-range combat, to the point where a Rail Rifle would be far more useful. It should also be noted that you cannot compare a niche weapon to a conventional rifle, in the same sense that you cannot compare a conventional rifle to an Anti-Vehicle weapon. A more valid comparison, would be the Shotgun and Nova Knife (additional niche weapons which rely on high alpha damage to perform well). In which case, I'd be forced to laugh at you because Nova Knives and Shotguns 1-2HK just about everything when fully specced into, and used on the proper suit. (ie, Matari Scout Frames). HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 637	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:05:00 - [19] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: boba's fetta wrote: while its true that some snipers do come out of the redline i havnt seen many and i doubt you have either. yeah yeah just because i didnt see them doesnt mean they were not there. what i can say is that when ive been shot by a sniper the fire 9/10 times comes from the redline. so sorry to say this but your acusation this time lacks merit. we all know the redline is an issue and that sniper rifle is the weapon most used to fire from the redline. and you could post something a little bit more useful than links to explantion i already know and understand. and to think you were almostan amusing troll. 1/10 for effort. and 9/10 times you shrug off the damage they do.. it's an annoyance at best to let you know there's a sniper.. they're not generally actively pinning you down.. you just figure out how to avoid them.. it's pretty simple.. run a cloak.. switch to heavy.. those are effective passive counters. actully i AM a heavy... how about you try some of thesse counters you suggest?
Cpl Foster USMC The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 890	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:09:00 - [20] - Quote Sniper bump for Sniper Chat I find a corp I like just when the game is dying....figures....

DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:11:00 - [21] - Quote I run a Caldari Commando for sniping.. when I have to hit a heavy 4x with a charge sniper rifle.. I ignore them. If there are multiple heavies or a logi train.. I also ignore them. If it's a solo heavy wandering the desert alone without a LAV you bet your bottom dollar I kill them. (is this you?) I run a Caldari Scout to participate in the meat grinder. (and because getting a drop ship to get to a tower in ambush is like flipping a coin and trying to win every time) USING A CLOAK I ALMOST NEVER GET SNIPED.. THIS WORKS SO WELL.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 637	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:18:00 - [22] - Quote no i dont wander the open without an lav. my issue remains a simple one. sniping from the redline. once that is fixed (HAHAHA) then sure buff them.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:21:00 - [23] - Quote you're just trolling at this point and you've made it obvious thanks for helping to keep this thread at the top though.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2656	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:24:00 - [24] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Test out increased head shot damage.. and / or slightly increased base damage on prototype rifles to fix the required amount of shots against proto suits. Quoting this to notify the people whining that the OP wants HEADSHOT damage increase (which I agree with), not overall damage increase. For those crying about the redline, maybe you're just so bad, you don't know how to dodge a sniper with a limited field of view?
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8844	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:28:00 - [25] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: while its true that some snipers do come out of the redline i havnt seen many and i doubt you have either. yeah yeah just because i didnt see them doesnt mean they were not there. what i can say is that when ive been shot by a sniper the fire 9/10 times comes from the redline. Have you tracked down the Sniper 9/10 times to see if it was in the redline? Or did you look at the 'Distance Away' section on the killboard, and come to the conclusion that s/he is in the redline? Along with this, do you have actual data (such as a list of times you've died to a Sniper Rifle); or can I dismiss this as anecdotal evidence that has no actual merit? boba's fetta wrote: so sorry to say this but your acusation this time lacks merit. we all know the redline is an issue and that sniper rifle is the weapon most used to fire from the redline. When you say "sniper rifle is the weapon most used to fire from the redline" which variant do you mean? Would you be referring to the pre-fitted loadout labeled 'Sniper'? If so, that's an outlier that should be considered irrelevant. Otherwise, we could gather data to show the battlefield competence of those using a 'pre-fitted Medic' or 'Frontline' fitting with a MLT Assault Rifle, and then use that data to determine the competence of the average Assault Rifle user. Or would it be safe to assume that those using a pre-fitted Starter Frame are outliers, and a data sample involving them is inaccurate. However, if you are reffering to those who aren't in 'Sniper' fittings, I'd like to see you supply data to support that. boba's fetta wrote: and you could post something a little bit more useful than links to explantion i already know and understand. and to think you were almostan amusing troll. 1/10 for effort. Not quite sure what else you wanted me to post. Your statement was a single incomplete sentence, which was nothing but fallacious drivel. The fact that you acknowledged that it was fallacious drivel and still decided to post it anyway makes you [by definition] a troll. 2/10 ~Falls apart quickly. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 637	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:30:00 - [26] - Quote so you dont refute the arguement yet im the troll? the redline is my issue here. i dont see why anyone should be allowed to sit in a place where the only counter is suicide or ob. and saying a sniper is the counter to a sniper is stupid. just like this whole only tanks should kill tanks thing.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:40:00 - [27] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: so you dont refute the arguement yet im the troll? the redline is my issue here. i dont see why anyone should be allowed to sit in a place where the only counter is suicide or ob. and saying a sniper is the counter to a sniper is stupid. just like this whole only tanks should kill tanks thing. I already told you a great number of counters to snipers. Let's educate the public on your behalf yet again. How to counter a sniper.. 1. Switch to a heavy suit.(passive) 2. Switch to a suit with a cloak. (passive) 3. Play indoors. (passive) 4. Never stop moving. (passive) 5. Avoid their line of sight. (passive) 6. ADS you can kill infantry in the redline in 20 seconds. (active) ^ with splash damage missiles you hardly have to aim ^ 7. Rail Tanks can counter snipe effectively. (active) 8 Forge Guns can counter snipe effectively. (active 9. You could switch to counter sniping like a boss. (active) 10. Warbarge Strike that Thale's user in a pub match. (active) 11. Get inside of a vehicle. (passive)
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 637	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:42:00 - [28] - Quote yes atiim i have tracked them down. no i would not be refearing to the basic sniper. charge and isikone. (yes spelling) no i dont have any data do you? (burden of proof on me) does anyone outside of ccp? i did not acknowlege it was a fallacy. just that you had linked to something i already understand. the post was mearly my thoughts as ive said before. do i think ccp give two ***** about what i think no i dont. please do provide your own thoughts on the matter or do you refrain because you know no matter what you post its simply an ancedote. as stupid as i am for saying it i would like to see this game improve. id like the sniper to get a buff its the abuse of the game mechanic i dont like.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:43:00 - [29] - Quote Countering is not the same as "Revenge Killing"
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 637	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:47:00 - [30] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Countering is not the same as "Revenge Killing" taking issue with the redline is not having an issue with a playstyle.

I-Shayz-I I-----I 3459	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:56:00 - [31] - Quote Remove sniper sway when first aiming down sights. Only have it apply when you line up your second shot after firing. "But you need time to line up your shot hen you're scoping" Okay...then why is it that ADSing any other rifle takes a fraction of a second and allows you to fire for perfect accuracy as long as you burst the trigger? Do this, and snipers will finally be able to leave the redline. Problem solved. /thread 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2014.05.25 15:03:00 - [32] - Quote I would rather have snipers in the red line.. than Call of Duty quick scoping contests..
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 637	Posted - 2014.05.25 15:16:00 - [33] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Remove sniper sway when first aiming down sights. Only have it apply when you line up your second shot after firing. "But you need time to line up your shot hen you're scoping" Okay...then why is it that ADSing any other rifle takes a fraction of a second and allows you to fire for perfect accuracy as long as you burst the trigger? Do this, and snipers will finally be able to leave the redline. Problem solved. /thread personally i think that we need to remove the incentive for people to snipe from the redline or the ability to. its a difficult one caused by the bad bowl design maps we had saw the devs try to move away from till they stopped making maps. and there in lies the problem how can an issue caused by bad map design be fixed if there isnt going to be any new maps. removing sway altogether may just introduce a new breed of sniper wielding head shot machines. ive commented on this topic many many times before. its an issue that has been cropping up since i started playing. yes im boredof it but want it fixed.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2014.05.25 15:16:00 - [34] - Quote Atiim wrote: Which reminds me. I should have that thread I was talking about made in about an hour or so. Can you get on Dust 514 right now?
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8845	Posted - 2014.05.25 15:25:00 - [35] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: While the statement is absolutely an example of said fallacy, your dismissing it is an equally good example of a straw man. Not quite sure how my dismissal is an example of the Strawman. Quote: A straw man is an intentional misrepresentation of an opponent's position, often used in debates with unsophisticated audiences to make it appear that the opponent's arguments are more easily defeated than they are. [1] Unintentional misrepresentations are also possible, but in this case, the individual is guilty only of simple ignorance. While their argument would still be fallacious, they can be at least excused of mallice. Was his argument a fallacy? Yes. Are fallacies valid in arguments? No. Therefore, his argument is fallacious drivel. That's not me misrepresenting his position, that's me coming to a logical conclusion based on the information provided. Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: The sniper rifle is absolutely abused by redline campers. You cannot deny this. The general drop in sniper rifle effectiveness has led to a drop in their usage, absolutely, but the fact remains: throughout DUST's history redline campers have made up a large proportion of snipers. Buffing the sniper rifle without addressing this core issue is no more than aiding and abetting. The core issue is the lack of incentive to use the Sniper Rifle outside the redline, as the reward is not worth the risk. Buffing it would solve that issue. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Scheneighnay McBob T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 5087	Posted - 2014.05.25 15:28:00 - [36] - Quote Their love is the armor nerf. BOOP!
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 945	Posted - 2014.05.25 15:33:00 - [37] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Red Line Snipers 1. Not combat effective (generally very low kill counts) 2. If they concern you, counter them. (ADS, Tank, Sniper, OB) 3. Most of them are bad, the best sniping locations are outside of the red line You shouldn't get worked up defending the player base who refuses to counter snipers, or are too hapless and will consistently stand still so a sniper 500+ meters away can take an easy shot at them. This. There are vanishingly few good sniping spots on the maps that aren't close enough to the redline that a good scout can't rush in and pop the sniper and get away clean. HAVs and dropships can do this too. All the good sniper spots behind the redline can be counter-sniped. People who mindlessly sit in the redline are usually on teams that are losing (often losing badly). People who mindlessly sit in the redline are often pretty poor snipers. The best snipers run and gun. They grab spots inside and outside the redline, depending on the situation. Good snipers hack, drop uplinks and hives, cover and lock down NULL cannons and other hackable structures (sometimes 2 or 3 at once), snipe uplinks and hives, call in intel to their teams (because we can see the overall picture), snipe red guys calling in vehicles, even your odds when two or three reds jump you, cover you when you are hacking (you never even realize when I kill the two reds running at you to kill you), snipe swarm launcher users, wear different types of suits depending on the situation (cloaked scouts to get into very good positions outside the redline; commandos to carry sniper rifles, swarm launchers or rail rifles), snipe the guys on buildings who shoot you and spam grenades on you from above, carry explosives to attach to HAVs or hackable objects (I love doing this), jump into vehicles to rapidly move to important places where they can help quickly, snipe the reds that go after tanks at close quarters, break red momentum, bring that shuffling red sentinel to zero shields and half armor so you can kill him, hack red vehicles when the drivers jump out to hack, harass the reds so much that 3 jump into an LAV and go hunting for the sniper (a few minutes when those three are not shooting at you in CQC, hacking or defending objectives), shoot red medics and their patients, put bullets in downed reds - when you are busy defending yourself and can't finish them, harass reds so they have a harder time grouping together to rush you, counter-snipe and snipe guys with forge guns on tall buildings or perches trying to shoot red tanks. Learn to multitask and get good at all of the above. In pubs I sometimes shoot a distracted blue (it causes no damage) to alert him when a red or group of reds is approaching from behind or cloaked. I never do this in FW or PC, though. In order to get useful proto sniper rifles we have to claw our way up through essentially useless basic and advanced sniper rifles. We have to play far more games to reach cap each week. When we are out of ammo we have to take big risks to get to supply depots or we have to pop hives close to where we are (which kind of flags us). We have to learn to track and time shots on moving targets. This is tough with different speeds, jumping, cloaking and ground that is not flat. I love the challenge, though. We can't hipfire accurately like the CQC guys can. Just a few thoughts. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 69	Posted - 2014.05.25 16:41:00 - [38] - Quote oh my... same guy, another sniper thread, and yet another comment about red line snipers...followed with the multitude ways of killing a sniper...again. if you have a problem with red lines try your own thread bobba. or am i wrong in assuming you also have an issue with forge gunners and rail tanks in the red lines? we don't use red lines because they mean people cant get to us, not the decent ones of us. we go to the best positions for the situation at hand and have been asking for better positions since last year... not our fault that we keep getting contrary folks on all of the sniper threads mate. we ask for the weapon we enjoy playing the game with to get some attention as the rest of the game has moved beyond the thing these rifles were balanced on. even we don't want blanket buffs that will reward the type of folk you keep talking about, they don't get regular headshots or even get many kills or for that matter much sp or w. we want to be rewarded for being good.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:07:00 - [39] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: oh my... same guy, another sniper thread, and yet another comment about red line snipers...followed with the multitude ways of killing a sniper...again. if you have a problem with red lines try your own thread bobba. or am i wrong in assuming you also have an issue with forge gunners and rail tanks in the red lines? we don't use red lines because they mean people cant get to us, not the decent ones of us. we go to the best positions for the situation at hand and have been asking for better positions since last year... not our fault that we keep getting contrary folks on all of the sniper threads mate. we ask for the weapon we enjoy playing the game with to get some attention as the rest of the game has moved beyond the thing these rifles were balanced on. even we don't want blanket buffs that will reward the type of folk you keep talking about, they don't get regular headshots or even get many kills or for that matter much sp or w. we want to be rewarded for being good. I like this.. this is good.. more of this.. less of qq'ing idiots. Would you like to qq? I think you are an idiot. The end.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13737	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:58:00 - [40] - Quote This thread is another excellent example of typical forum trash. This goes for both sides. Nobody here is actually discussing anything productively and practically this entire thread has been spent bashing on the other side rather than trying to get something productive discussed. OP, would you like to explain why you feel said buffs are necessary in your original post? If you just post your suggested buff and no justification with it then it's an invitation for terrible posting. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1

DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:04:00 - [41] - Quote Have you not seen the sister thread to this? The one with 4,000 views? The pages of justification. Keeping both bumped at the same time. There's not much left to explain. If you would like though I'll edit it.. hopefully not into a novel. Combine that with no DEV response.. and it spawns another thread hoping to get some attention before the next hot fix.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13738	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:08:00 - [42] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Have you not seen the sister thread to this? The one with 4,000 views? The pages of justification. Keeping both bumped at the same time. There's not much left to explain. If you would like though I'll edit it.. hopefully not into a novel. Combine that with no DEV response.. and it spawns another thread hoping to get some attention before the next hot fix. I don't mean justification later in the thread, I mean in your initial post. If you don't justify it there, what kind of reply does that invite? Something like what Boba posted, and the kind of drivel that the thread quickly got filled with. I am no stranger to threadnaughts with no dev response - however, spamming the forum with more threads (but of worse quality) on the same topic won't encourage one. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:44:00 - [43] - Quote Your can of condensed sniper soup is now ready to ingest. (revisit the initial post)
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13739	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:47:00 - [44] - Quote Much better. Some of those are really indirect though. o_O You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
STABBEY Heaven's Lost Property 502	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:47:00 - [45] - Quote Why does a weapon that can 1-2 shot almost anything need "love" Gÿú GÖ¦ Gÿñ Gäó © sç+(¬GÇ+¬)sç+ (-éGîú¦Ç_Gîú¦ü)ßòñ Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ-Vet-GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ+¦Gû¼Gû¼ +¬(GùÅ¦«¦âGÇó)¦¦ (GùúGùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ (a+ç'¦Ç-'¦ü)a+ç GöîGê¬GöÉ(Gùú_Gùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:49:00 - [46] - Quote STABBEY wrote: Why does a weapon that can 1-2 shot almost anything need "love" It can't, though. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:50:00 - [47] - Quote What weapon would that be plasma cannon? (also if by some miracle you were talking about the sniper rifle.. ask your corp mate Atiim who is also championing this effort.)
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8850	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:57:00 - [48] - Quote I'm not one to make excuses, but I'm almost done. I'm simply gathering data about the max rendering range of the Sniper Rifle, compared to the Absolute range of the Sniper Rifle, which will aid me in my argument about making the zoom adjustable. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8850	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:58:00 - [49] - Quote STABBEY wrote: Why does a weapon that can 1-2 shot almost anything need "love" Not you too. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:59:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: I'm not one to make excuses, but I'm almost done. I'm simply gathering data about the max rendering range of the Sniper Rifle, compared to the Absolute range of the Sniper Rifle, which will aid me in my argument about making the zoom adjustable. Adjustable zoom is a new game mechanic. I would like that to be included as part of either a sniper overhaul or with a new rifle altogether when the racial variants are released.

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:08:00 - [51] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Atiim wrote: I'm not one to make excuses, but I'm almost done. I'm simply gathering data about the max rendering range of the Sniper Rifle, compared to the Absolute range of the Sniper Rifle, which will aid me in my argument about making the zoom adjustable. Adjustable zoom is a new game mechanic. I would like that to be included as part of either a sniper overhaul or with a new rifle altogether when the racial variants are released. This is not going to happen in DUST. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 947	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:19:00 - [52] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: STABBEY wrote: Why does a weapon that can 1-2 shot almost anything need "love" It can't, though. LOL! STABBEY, try sniping a fatty 550m away. Three shots sometimes four shots (all hits). With a proto sniper rifle, 3 complex damage mods, and a Cal commando (to get a decent damage bonus). This fatty, bye the way, is smaller than the aiming dot in the zoom reticle at 550m. Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout? I think we snipers do have a legitimate concern here. Facts and data need to be used to look at our role, not idle speculation, trolls and misinformed perceptions (these are present on both sides, to be honest). Many other suits, weapons, armor and roles have been given attention over the past year. One of the devs told me (in these forums) that the new maps and sockets are being deliberately designed to hobble snipers. Are there any maps or sockets that deliberately hobble tanks, medics, scouts, forge guns, shotguns, dropships, cloaks, combat rifles or rail rifles? I just wish that we could look at this rationally with mature input from both sides. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:22:00 - [53] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout? I don't think it's reasonable to expect to 1 shot anything but a practically untanked scout, honestly. In a game where someone paid ISK for that suit hitscan instakills from long range are not a good thing. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:24:00 - [54] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Poonmunch wrote: Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout? I don't think it's reasonable to expect to 1 shot anything but a practically untanked scout, honestly. In a game where someone paid ISK for that suit hitscan instakills from long range are not a good thing. We're talking headshot bonus damage, and not having to unload 3 clips of a tactical into a heavy to kill it.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:26:00 - [55] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Poonmunch wrote: Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout? I don't think it's reasonable to expect to 1 shot anything but a practically untanked scout, honestly. In a game where someone paid ISK for that suit hitscan instakills from long range are not a good thing. We're talking headshot bonus damage, and not having to unload 3 clips of a tactical into a heavy to kill it. No, that specific part that I quoted was questioning why snipers weren't one shotting a form of bricktank. 3 clips of a tactical into a heavy is unreasonable, I agree. It needs to be able to kill them more efficiently than that. Poonmunch wrote: One of the devs told me (in these forums) that the new maps and sockets are being deliberately designed to hobble snipers. Are there any maps or sockets that deliberately hobble tanks, medics, scouts, forge guns, shotguns, dropships, cloaks, combat rifles or rail rifles? Yes. Manus Peak is not a map designed to go well with shotguns or cloaks. The research facility doesn't work brilliantly with tanks. Forge guns don't work in CQC maps like that either. Combat rifles are ungodly powerful regardless of the map design though, yeah. But snipers aren't quite alone in having map design impede them. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:31:00 - [56] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Poonmunch wrote: Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout? I don't think it's reasonable to expect to 1 shot anything but a practically untanked scout, honestly. In a game where someone paid ISK for that suit hitscan instakills from long range are not a good thing. We're talking headshot bonus damage, and not having to unload 3 clips of a tactical into a heavy to kill it. No, that specific part that I quoted was questioning why snipers weren't one shotting a form of bricktank. 3 clips of a tactical into a heavy is unreasonable, I agree. It needs to be able to kill them more efficiently than that. Poonmunch wrote: One of the devs told me (in these forums) that the new maps and sockets are being deliberately designed to hobble snipers. Are there any maps or sockets that deliberately hobble tanks, medics, scouts, forge guns, shotguns, dropships, cloaks, combat rifles or rail rifles? Yes. Manus Peak is not a map designed to go well with shotguns or cloaks. The research facility doesn't work brilliantly with tanks. Forge guns don't work in CQC maps like that either. Combat rifles are ungodly powerful regardless of the map design though, yeah. But snipers aren't quite alone in having map design impede them. You missed it though. ALL OF THE GALLENTE MAPS are "anti-sniper". You can snipe into exactly.. ZERO objectives. I don't think the developers anticipated cloaking + side strafing while hacking an objective.. 50% miss chance if moving + cloaked so not even sure where the guy is really can't anticipate crap. And on top of that I need to 2 shot the guy with a charge rifle? Good luck.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:36:00 - [57] - Quote DJIIN GITAXIS wrote: You missed it though. ALL OF THE GALLENTE MAPS are "anti-sniper". You can snipe into exactly.. ZERO objectives. I don't think the developers anticipated cloaking + side strafing while hacking an objective.. 50% miss chance if moving + cloaked so not even sure where the guy is really can't anticipate crap. And on top of that I need to 2 shot the guy with a charge rifle? Good luck. The Gallente research facility being anti-sniper is no worse than Manus Peak being anti-shotgun or the research facility being anti-tank. By sniping into an objective, do you mean direct LOS on a console or do you mean on the area around the objective? 50% miss chance is a completely random number you've thrown out, by the way. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:43:00 - [58] - Quote You can only move around so much while still hacking a console. In most cases its back and forth. (50% hit chance really) I know this because I snipe objectives that are being hacked. (unless they have hacking modules and I'm not focusing on the point) In that case they're invisible and by the time I find them the point is hacked.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 948	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:47:00 - [59] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Poonmunch wrote: Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout? I don't think it's reasonable to expect to 1 shot anything but a practically untanked scout, honestly. In a game where someone paid ISK for that suit hitscan instakills from long range are not a good thing. This is a rational argument. I like rational arguments. I'm not asking to one shot a scout as long as the scout has to give up something to get brick tanked. Speed takes a penalty but they can still run pretty fast and are hard to detect. I pay 47k ISK for my Charge Sniper Rifle (the same as a Duvolle Assault Rifle or other very good light weapon) but a Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle (or other top of the line light weapon) can be bought for 77k ISK. My Thales (the top of the line sniper rifle) can't be purchased, only salvaged (very rarely). That tanked scout can pop me once with a shotgun in the back of the head and I'm off to the clone vats. Is it fair to ask that I get the same opportunity? Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13742	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:49:00 - [60] - Quote While strafing on consoles may be a problem for snipers, reducing the ability to do that would have huge knock-on effects throughout the rest of the game. If you could OHKO the hacker, that immediately catapults the sniper to a very, very powerful level - overly so. If you can easily instantly kill people at long range with zero opportunity for them to react to you or attempt to protect themselves from you, that's overpowered. If 2 shotting people on a console is a problem for snipers, what do you suggest the solution to that is? I agree that it's a problem if it's taking multiple clips to down anything but I don't think OHKOing anything but the least tanked of targets is reasonable. Also, I'd like to ask again - do you think it's reasonable for a sniper to have direct line of sight on a console? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1

DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:57:00 - [61] - Quote I think it's fine for a sniper to have direct line of sight on a console.. (with exception) It's because there are always 4-5 points and you most definitely can't snipe into any more than a few of those on any given map. Anyone in a vehicle is sniper immune whilst traveling from point to point getting off hacks.. so unless they're outside on foot that's the only time a sniper will have actual opportunity.. so think about gallente installations add a vehicle and they are truely sniper immune. Having some maps where a sniper has an edge provides no problem.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13743	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:59:00 - [62] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: I'm not asking to one shot a scout as long as the scout has to give up something to get brick tanked. Speed takes a penalty but they can still run pretty fast and are hard to detect. Oh absolutely, I completely agree. That's a huge problem with the infantry game at the moment and things need to be done to fix that. Quote: I pay 47k ISK for my Charge Sniper Rifle (the same as a Duvolle Assault Rifle or other very good light weapon) but a Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle (or other top of the line light weapon) can be bought for 77k ISK. My Thales (the top of the line sniper rifle) can't be purchased, only salvaged (very rarely). That tanked scout can pop me once with a shotgun in the back of the head and I'm off to the clone vats. Is it fair to ask that I get the same opportunity? There's a little more to both of these points than just direct ISK comparisons and direct TTK comparisons. In terms of ISK, it's a risk/reward thing. An assault rifle is likely to be in front line CQC conflict a lot and is thus at a greater risk of being lost. With a sniper, you're at a much longer range, are more difficult to locate, and can't be hit back at with most weapons. There is also the redline to consider - although you personally (and some other snipers) may come out of the redline, it is still a very effective tool for protecting yourself and reducing the risk. Some better sniping spots are certainly outside the redline - but a favourite of mine on Manus Peak allows you direct line of sight on the 'A' console from the redline (depending on which side you're on) and sometimes either B or C as well. Instantly pegging said Duvolle user gives you a very high reward for relatively low risk. Also, comparing the ease of access for a Duvolle to a Thale's isn't really fair. A more fair comparison would be the Balac's or Krin's compared to the Thale's. I'm not really a fan of scouts instakilling things with shotguns either, but it's a risk/reward thing again. The scout is within 5m of you to kill you like that. That's quite a lot riskier than sniping from afar - although arguably the cloaky shotgun scout isn't at much risk I would point that out as its own problem that needs to be addressed rather than it being a problem with snipers in general. I have a few questions for you, Munch. 1) Should snipers have direct LOS on consoles? 2) How many shots do you think it should take for a scout, assault, logistics, and sentinel dropsuit? 3) What do you think of redline sniping? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
skippy678 The Phoenix Federation Caps and Mercs 2476	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:01:00 - [63] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: The very, very, very last thing Dust needs right now is more passive, campy gameplay. But you must admit Thor.....sniping is pretty useless as it stands and could use a buff..pretty bigtime...I used to be able to go 40ish-0 and now im lucky if i get to 15. My Youtube Lvl. 2 Forum Warrior Follow:@skippy6gaming #BetaVet
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13743	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:02:00 - [64] - Quote skippy678 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: The very, very, very last thing Dust needs right now is more passive, campy gameplay. But you must admit Thor.....sniping is pretty useless as it stands and could use a buff..pretty bigtime...I used to be able to go 40ish-0 and now im lucky if i get to 15. Uh... I'm a little dubious about being able to go 40-0 being used as a benchmark for balance. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:09:00 - [65] - Quote The 40-0 wasn't something consistent. Against bad teams, on the right map, in the right situation, with no counters. It happens. Especially with tanks and attack drop ships to this day..
OliX PRZESMIEWCA Bezimienni... 107	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:10:00 - [66] - Quote Ahh I <3 sniper's affairs...
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 949	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:22:00 - [67] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Poonmunch wrote: One of the devs told me (in these forums) that the new maps and sockets are being deliberately designed to hobble snipers. Are there any maps or sockets that deliberately hobble tanks, medics, scouts, forge guns, shotguns, dropships, cloaks, combat rifles or rail rifles? Yes. Manus Peak is not a map designed to go well with shotguns or cloaks. The research facility doesn't work brilliantly with tanks. Forge guns don't work in CQC maps like that either. Combat rifles are ungodly powerful regardless of the map design though, yeah. But snipers aren't quite alone in having map design impede them. Manus Peak, the research facility and the forge gun limitations are there, yes. But those maps and sockets were not deliberately made to hinder shotguns, cloaks, tanks or forge guns. Manus Peak seems much more shotgun friendly now that there are cloaks. Hide by a hack point. I get nailed by scouts with shotguns when I'm hacking on that map (well, I get nailed by everyone when I'm hacking). Check some of this out: Some Dev Responses Regarding Maps and Snipers - See Post #70 Those discussions were going on last September. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 949	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:24:00 - [68] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: skippy678 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: The very, very, very last thing Dust needs right now is more passive, campy gameplay. But you must admit Thor.....sniping is pretty useless as it stands and could use a buff..pretty bigtime...I used to be able to go 40ish-0 and now im lucky if i get to 15. Uh... I'm a little dubious about being able to go 40-0 being used as a benchmark for balance. Ditto. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13745	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:30:00 - [69] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Manus Peak, the research facility and the forge gun limitations are there, yes. But those maps and sockets were not deliberately made to hinder shotguns, cloaks, tanks or forge guns. Whether or not the effect is deliberate the result is the same, even if it's unintentional. Also, the dev responsible for designing the maps 'specifically for hindering snipers' IIRC is no longer working at CCP. I think it's quite natural for some tactics and playstyles to not work equally well on all maps. Although I'd like to see a little more sniping on the research facility, I'm quite fine with there being maps designed for CQC infantry slugfests just as there are open maps like Manus Peak which are ideal for snipers. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:34:00 - [70] - Quote Now if only there was map select.. (for those people with low skill points specializing strictly into sniping)

Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 949	Posted - 2014.05.25 21:11:00 - [71] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I have a few questions for you, Munch. 1) Should snipers have direct LOS on consoles? 2) How many shots do you think it should take for a scout, assault, logistics, and sentinel dropsuit? 3) What do you think of redline sniping? 1) No. That would be super unfair. At the same time not all consoles should be buried in bunkers under three tons of concrete and steel. 2) This depends on the sniper rifle variant. The basic and advanced tier sniper rifles are darn near useless now. Noobs have a hard enough climb to get to proto. They need a boost. I think all headshots should be one hit kills for the advanced and proto sniper rifles. Heads attached to running bodies are hard to hit and skill hitting that area should be rewarded. As long as brick tanked suits give up something to get brick tanked I'm ok with several shots on any of them, except the scout. Scouts should be fast and hard to detect. They shouldn't be 50 cal sponges. Exact numbers for answers to this type of question need data. 3) If you read through any sniper thread I have posted in, I likely address redline snipers. I use "behind the redline" when it helps my team. I use "in front of the redline" when it helps my team, I use hacking to help my team, I drop uplinks and hives to help my team. I sit cloaked in some places VERY close to consoles to help my team. Sometimes I sit in hallways, cloaked, waiting for a scout to show up. I use remotes to help my team (a sniper is perfect for this role - we can see them coming). When I run a commando sniper I almost always grab a proto swarm launcher to help with red dropships, HAVs and LAVs. Whatever it takes. I dislike forge gunners that camp perches. But I also love these guys because I can snipe them. I dislike tanks that sit behind the redline and plink away at reds. I dislike dropships that can get to maximum altitude in 5 seconds (another type of redline) before my swarms can reach them. I dislike fatties and cloaked reds that camp consoles behind three tons of concrete and steel. A type of redline you can't shoot into. I dislike blues who think it is fun to stack REs behind me and blow them up two seconds before a FW game ends. And like anyone else, I dislike snipers that sit in one place and plink away at reds. But I also love these guys because I can snipe them. The redline is a convoluted mechanic but it is necessary so games can be played out completely. Imagine no redline. If the blue team pushes the other off the map, the reds have no place to regroup. Then the reds just hide wherever they can. Or they stop playing. And the game goes on for another 3 minutes while the red MCC takes enough damage to explode (boring). Or the blue team has to find enough reds to kill so they win by cloning the reds (scut work - like ratting in EVE). ***** If you have any other questions, let me know. I'd be happy to answer them. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2014.05.25 21:31:00 - [72] - Quote is depressed.
Commander Tuna KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2014.05.25 22:57:00 - [73] - Quote I'm going to get a lot of flak but whenever I play a game where the sniper rifles are not op, I jump for joy. I am 100% content with where snipers are Atm.
Michael Arck 4532	Posted - 2014.05.25 23:21:00 - [74] - Quote See, you're the type of sniper who will just sit there all match with your OP weapon (if given love) and just snipe away. I'm really not comfortable with that to be perfectly honest. I respect a merc who doesn't exclusively snipe. Team getting there butts handed to them and you still trying to track the heavy who's demolishing infantrymen. You have the advantage of not being in the war. Killing from distances with a location unknown. That should be enough for you. You want a touch of COD sniping with Dust redline camp sniping. Nay I say sir. Nay. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 785	Posted - 2014.05.25 23:40:00 - [75] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Test out increased headshot damage. (this rewards skillful players and not those 500m away in the red line) and / or Slighty increased base sniper rifle damage. (to fix the required amount of shots against proto suits) Why would I ask that sniper rifles be given attention? Where to start.. Sniping isn't good enough for PC. The rifles don't do enough damage at range to make it worth running a Sniper over let's say a slayer actively pushing or defending. This is a push for Sniping to be more than what it currently is in end game DUST 514. Which is essentially non-factor unless using a Thale's at which point it's viable but not broken. Thanks to that huge long list of things I've named that keep the Sniper from being something desirable. You shouldn't need things you can't purchase (OFFICER WEAPONS) to be considered worth putting on a team for competitive end game play. When putting together a bunch of mercenaries to form a team it's NEVER desired or essential that a team fields a sniper. I'm not asking to make the role essential, just less undesirable than it currently is. WHAT HAVE BEEN THE SNIPER NERFS?? (some of these are active others are passive) Armor Plates got buffed so stacking health is super easy. (combined with) Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with) Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with) Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with) No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with) Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with) Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with) Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with) Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with) Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with) Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with) Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with) Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with) Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with) I can keep coming up with stuff to show you how the game has changed, and not in favor of sniping. I'm probably missing a few easy ones I could have pointed out. TL;DR (Sniping hasn't been touched or modified since the release of this ever evolving game, the role has gotten progressively worse over time. Developers don't dare comment on the subject. Good players should be rewarded for skill making flavor of the month classes / builds more tolerable, and the sniper more useful in planetary conquest. This is something that is a long time coming many of us feel.) 2/10 OP ya almost had me.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 41	Posted - 2014.05.26 01:35:00 - [76] - Quote is feeling hungry.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 1050	Posted - 2014.05.26 02:37:00 - [77] - Quote Part of the reason I stopped running logi on most maps is that its an easy OHK for charged sniper rifles and Thales. i don't brick tank scouts either so anther OHK there. Occasionally I'll snipe on my vehicle alt, with just enough SP to get a tactical sniper, guess what I have no problem sniping, the hardest part is counter sniping the thale user in a heavy suit on the MCC Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it, damn you! Turns out I wont.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1553	Posted - 2014.05.26 04:19:00 - [78] - Quote Since you put a lot of thought into this, I'll give a real response. Sniping with your squad is rewarded less that hiding on a hill and getting easy kills due to the relative safety afforded by the redline. If you want to make sniping a worthwhile role cut the optimal down to 80, the effective down to 175 and the absolute to 300. This makes the sniper rifle a "tactical marksman" role, requiring you to be a part of the fight in order to get kills. Once the range is fixed, you can buff the damage or RoF drastically to make up for the lack of redline safety. Tactical marksman can then be used for ranged point defense or for clearing targets on an objective while the squad moves in, giving them an actual use on the field of battle. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 176	Posted - 2014.05.26 05:41:00 - [79] - Quote The man has a point. The Sniper class, like the anti armor class, takes a back seat in this game to everything else. They keep nerfing and buffing the same ole crap to no avail?! I would personally love to be engaged in a firefight, and some sniper just cleans the head off of a heavy out of nowhere! The fact is they don't have that ability?! The NT-511 and charged sniper rifle are the most used sniper rifles in the game. Most of the guys using them only get kills on already wounded troops because they don't have the damage output?! At the very least give them better scopes, or options in scoping with different sniper rifles. I looked down the sights of that thing once and never tried it again?! What am I supposed to do with that besides hide in the redline?!? "Anybody order chaos?"
Michael Arck 4537	Posted - 2014.05.26 06:38:00 - [80] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: What am I supposed to do with that besides hide in the redline?!? How about moving? Ya know, snipe from this location, move, and then snipe from that location? The majority of snipers place themselves in a bad position. If a enemy is sniping at a certain location, I notify on comms and the majority of the time we avoid that area unless the situation demands that we respond to the sniper. And that's few and far in between. And you know what? The sniper will just sit in that location, taking the whole match just to kill two targets. Meanwhile, the entire team is on the ground fighting. All that time used hiding in the redline and you could have been helping your team in a number of ways besides just sitting at the redline trying to get a good kill. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*

Ceadda Sai Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 74	Posted - 2014.05.26 06:55:00 - [81] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: only if you come out of the redline... I do get those occasional point blank charge shots, which rips a parts mediums and scouts. Forge Gunners: Now this is a gun for going out and and making people miserable with.
Will Driver Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 59	Posted - 2014.05.26 07:52:00 - [82] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Test out increased headshot damage. (this rewards skillful players and not those 500m away in the red line) and / or Slighty increased base sniper rifle damage. (to fix the required amount of shots against proto suits) Why would I ask that sniper rifles be given attention? Where to start.. Sniping isn't good enough for PC. The rifles don't do enough damage at range to make it worth running a Sniper over let's say a slayer actively pushing or defending. This is a push for Sniping to be more than what it currently is in end game DUST 514. Which is essentially non-factor unless using a Thale's at which point it's viable but not broken. Thanks to that huge long list of things I've named that keep the Sniper from being something desirable. You shouldn't need things you can't purchase (OFFICER WEAPONS) to be considered worth putting on a team for competitive end game play. When putting together a bunch of mercenaries to form a team it's NEVER desired or essential that a team fields a sniper. I'm not asking to make the role essential, just less undesirable than it currently is. WHAT HAVE BEEN THE SNIPER NERFS?? (some of these are active others are passive) Armor Plates got buffed so stacking health is super easy. (combined with) Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with) Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with) Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with) No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with) Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with) Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with) Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with) Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with) Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with) Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with) Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with) Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with) Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with) I can keep coming up with stuff to show you how the game has changed, and not in favor of sniping. I'm probably missing a few easy ones I could have pointed out. TL;DR (Sniping hasn't been touched or modified since the release of this ever evolving game, the role has gotten progressively worse over time. Developers don't dare comment on the subject. Good players should be rewarded for skill making flavor of the month classes / builds more tolerable, and the sniper more useful in planetary conquest. This is something that is a long time coming many of us feel.) No to any sniper buff. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 45	Posted - 2014.05.26 12:25:00 - [83] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Since you put a lot of thought into this, I'll give a real response. Sniping with your squad is rewarded less that hiding on a hill and getting easy kills due to the relative safety afforded by the redline. If you want to make sniping a worthwhile role cut the optimal down to 80, the effective down to 175 and the absolute to 300. This makes the sniper rifle a "tactical marksman" role, requiring you to be a part of the fight in order to get kills. Once the range is fixed, you can buff the damage or RoF drastically to make up for the lack of redline safety. Tactical marksman can then be used for ranged point defense or for clearing targets on an objective while the squad moves in, giving them an actual use on the field of battle. You can't skirt engagements at those ranges without easily getting flanked by a cloaked scout watching your attempt to flank and make your weapon useful. You would be essentially be using a worse rail rifle. I doubt you even snipe. If someone were to see you (because you're a lot closer) the odds of you hitting that person go down quite a bit. They'll strafe and jump and stop moving and start moving all the while closing the gap on you until they're too close for you to aim at all. ^^ This whole thing alludes to quick scoping ^^ and that's complete garbage best left in Call of Duty for crappy players. Just stop.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13752	Posted - 2014.05.26 13:07:00 - [84] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: -snip- I doubt you even snipe. -snip- ^^ This whole thing alludes to quick scoping ^^ and that's complete garbage best left in Call of Duty for crappy players. Just stop. Baal made his points without attacking you, Gitaxis. Why can't you do the same? @Baal - I don't think an optimal of 80m is remotely reasonable. The sniper needs a lot more range than that - it's outranged by a laser rifle at that point. An optimal of 600m just encourages redline sniping but if the optimal -and- absolute were 300m that would start to force people out of the redline. At that point, you can start buffing the sniper without needing to worry about the problem of redline sniper spam. 80m is far too short though. Far, far too short. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 45	Posted - 2014.05.26 13:07:00 - [85] - Quote CCP Rat, can I get a response on this? Did all the people who dealt with sniping get fired or quit at CCP?
End Is Here Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.05.26 14:02:00 - [86] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Red Line Snipers 1. Not combat effective (generally very low kill counts) 2. If they concern you, counter them. (ADS, Tank, Sniper, OB) 3. Most of them are bad, the best sniping locations are outside of the red line You shouldn't get worked up defending the player base who refuses to counter snipers, or are too hapless and will consistently stand still so a sniper 500+ meters away can take an easy shot at them. WOW! You guys are just plain SAD! I killed 30 guys last night from MCC roof. Most were 1-2 shotted. Its not CCP's fault that you cant pop someone in the head. You should NOT be able to 1 shot a 1900hp heavy. STOP TRYING! Go for the EASY prey....cloaked scouts. DOOOOOOOONG
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 176	Posted - 2014.05.26 14:19:00 - [87] - Quote End Is Here wrote: DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Red Line Snipers 1. Not combat effective (generally very low kill counts) 2. If they concern you, counter them. (ADS, Tank, Sniper, OB) 3. Most of them are bad, the best sniping locations are outside of the red line You shouldn't get worked up defending the player base who refuses to counter snipers, or are too hapless and will consistently stand still so a sniper 500+ meters away can take an easy shot at them. WOW! You guys are just plain SAD! I killed 30 guys last night from MCC roof. Most were 1-2 shotted. Its not CCP's fault that you cant pop someone in the head. You should NOT be able to 1 shot a 1900hp heavy. STOP TRYING! Go for the EASY prey....cloaked scouts. DOOOOOOOONG Exactly! Stop chasing kills, and hit the more strategic target! Sniper does need some love, but some of these sniper guys are hopeless solo artist that contribute little to any team. Kill those scouts and then i can vouch for you. "Anybody order chaos?"
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 70	Posted - 2014.05.26 16:35:00 - [88] - Quote okay here we go again. 1.red lines... is your problem with the red line? or is it with the distance? if your issue is red lines then by all means it's a separate issue as not only snipers use it and often when they do there are no other options. if your issue is distance then fair enough but if you want me to be a sniper within range of lr,cr,ar,rr, shotty scouts etc, then I'm going to ask for a sniper rifle that can kill Most enemies within a short time, and given the aiming vs spray and pray involved that means higher damage AND higher rate of fire....much higher rates of fire as they are at the moment charge rifles take at half damage at least 1.5 seconds per bullet, at full damage twice that. maybe I'm wrong but I think you'll find your on a slippery road to asking for a weapon that will be abused for quick scopers. 2. snipers are not viable in p.c matches at all. I mean when I say that, it takes almost a full clip to kill a stacked medium suit using headshots using anything other than a thales. the kill feed in pub matches paints a different story because snipers have to proto stomp because they are a full tier away from balanced. it takes a proto rifle to be useful in pub matches. this is why we need a buff. the time it takes to shoot 5 shots using a charge rifle, then reload along with lining up shots means most targets will get away long before a kill shot is even possible. it is the only class of player that is this unusable in p.c regardless os skill or isk invested into the role. 3. yes it is fair to compare the thales to proto form of the other rifles as the other rifles can still kill enemies in pc battles. 4. snipers are only low risk positions if the red team doesn't try to kill them other wise, we are almost always on our own, can't stack any kind of defensive modules as slots have to be full of damage mods, don't get logi support, if we have to keep moving positions then it takes most of a match's time meaning if we are under attack from other snipers we normally end up in a sniper battle just fighting for our position, or we have to move to a worse vantage or change to another role. if an ads comes to us we're normally dead, if it's a good pilot that becomes definite. if a heavy comes to our position we're also dead. (ok some people only red line snipe but I don't.) 5. yes it's possible to get high kill scores but only in pub matches. 6. the marksman role... I think it would be good to have a marksman role in this game a rifle probably like the bolt rifle but with longer range and higher damage would be a good base for it, and it would be for use in more open maps, and completely useless on others, but just shortening these rifles... no.. absolutely not. if you want to know why I suggest you grab a sniper rifle and try to go within the 300 meter range. that isn't an attack or even a defense but it would mean you understand what you are suggesting people should be doing before you suggest it. overall I think you'd agree that would require a new class of weapons. and they would be immediately op. be careful what you wish for. I assure you, you wouldn't want to see me with one of these. 7.nobody should NEED to take an officer weapon to be able to partake in p.c battles to fight for their corps. in closing, we are asking for a damage buff, only a slight buff to base damage to bring them up to more useful, and higher headshot damage which is our main request in order to make it a skill based buff, not everybody would benefit from it and as it is percentage based it would only really shine for highly specced snipers not the people who fall back and snipe when things are rough. I would also suggest that proto sniper rifles become more expensive so that I would want to save my proto weapons for p.c where they Should belong as most other people do with their proto gear, also an advanced level charge rifle as otherwise I'd have to still bring my proto one into pubs. I don't think we are being unreasonable here.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1556	Posted - 2014.05.26 18:38:00 - [89] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: DJINN GITAXIS wrote: -snip- I doubt you even snipe. -snip- ^^ This whole thing alludes to quick scoping ^^ and that's complete garbage best left in Call of Duty for crappy players. Just stop. Baal made his points without attacking you, Gitaxis. Why can't you do the same? @Baal - I don't think an optimal of 80m is remotely reasonable. The sniper needs a lot more range than that - it's outranged by a laser rifle at that point. An optimal of 600m just encourages redline sniping but if the optimal -and- absolute were 300m that would start to force people out of the redline. At that point, you can start buffing the sniper without needing to worry about the problem of redline sniper spam. 80m is far too short though. Far, far too short. @Arkena: Sorry for the wonky numbers, was posting while half asleep, pulled the numbers outta my ass and forgot to say they were an vague example. 80m is far too short a range, but having a single range being your absolute, effective and optimal discourages you from trying to chip health off of a target despite knowing you cannot do full damage (which is a large part of strategy while using almost all weapons), so I am somewhat wary of taking that approach. Making the call of whether or not to tag someone who you cannot do full damage to is a large part of this game's gunplay. "Fully awake Baal" suggests the actual numbers should sit in the general area of 250/300/350. Doing full damage at 250m still allows you to out range any rifle while not allowing you the ability to hide in the redline and farm kills unless you are already redlined. I went into a match earlier with a friend and marked out on Manus Peak how close you'd have to be to hit A with your absolute range (350m) and had my friend help me mark the 300 and 250 meter marks as well. I represented them as closely as I could using Paint.Net (it loads way faster on my crappy old laptop than GIMP). Here is approximately what my range suggestions look like. These ranges force you to go into the combat zone where you can be struck back at if you wish to get kills. It makes snipers need to rely on their squad for support, as any role should. Logi's are supposed to rely on the squad for protection, heavies are supposed to rely on the squad for ammo and repairs, etc. @ DJINN GIT: Being flanked is a part of the gameplay and requires you to have situational awareness. The Caldari scout would make a spectacular sniper suit for those who have terrible situational awareness due to it's passive scanning abilities, but regardless having no situational awareness is no one's fault but your own. As for using a worse rifle, you obviously did not read my whole post or you would have seen that I also said drastically buff the RoF or damage to compensate for the lost range. When someone closes the distance on you when you are sniping on a hill, what do you do? Oh, right, sidearm. Can you guess what you do when someone closes the distance on you when you snipe while running the field? Oh, right... As for quick scoping, if it were a viable tactic in Dust it would be done all the time. I've had plenty of people try to quick scope me in this game, and the only one to ever pull it off was Sleepy Zan back in Codex (quick scoped me out of a LAV no less while I was trying to run him over ). Speaking of Sleepy Zan, this is the style of sniping he does all the time (or did, not sure if he still plays). He runs with his squad and when he spots a target he drops to one knee, pulls up his scope, takes about a second or so to aim, then fires. I fully agree that quick scoping has no place in Dust, but this in no way alludes to quick scoping. Grab a tactical sniper some time, build an assault loadout and try this method out. It's far more challenging but a lot more fun than hiding on a hill. And lastly, to your remarks about me not being a sniper, I've sniped off and on in this game for 2 years as of this July which is a HELL of a lot longer than I've seen you around buddy. Having DJINN in your name doesn't magically grant the in-game experience of DJINN Punisher. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2014.05.26 19:59:00 - [90] - Quote @Baal This is an alt account. I was in open beta. My main has 40,000 kills from sniping alone. I doubt if anyone rivals that. (figure it out yet?) - Quick scoping gets done almost never. It's not a thing. Do not act like it sometimes happens. We're talking like 0.001 % of all kills. Terribly ineffective. Sleepy Zan was quick scoping while it was slightly more viable. It wouldn't work in today's environment. (more prototype suits, stacked health, cloaked scouts, ultra heavies) Situational awareness can't include knowledge of cloaked scouts, that comes from a distance. They're too fast and invisible. I heard you about the rate of fire. You're asking for a hybrid between a Rail Rifle and a Sniper Rifle. Nobody is asking for that. If you're going to include a sniper rifle in the game at all it needs to kill effectively from range, and head shots need to be rewarded heavily. @Michael Arck Moving? No. There's nothing tactical about that. You're calling out your position by doing so. It's a lot easier to catch the eye of a counter sniper if you keep trying to find the "best spot" for the moment. There's a process I go through when choosing where to snipe on any given map. It includes examining the enemy team and the map. Thinking about where I'm likely to get the most kills. Keeping safe has little to do with it. I just bring a fit that's appropriate to the location. (Commando) That and the default CCP sniper suit is very slow on foot.

Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1556	Posted - 2014.05.26 21:30:00 - [91] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: @Baal This is an alt account. I was in open beta. My main has 40,000 kills from sniping alone. I doubt if anyone rivals that. (figure it out yet?) - Quick scoping gets done almost never. It's not a thing. Do not act like it sometimes happens. We're talking like 0.001 % of all kills. Terribly ineffective. Sleepy Zan was quick scoping while it was slightly more viable. It wouldn't work in today's environment. (more prototype suits, stacked health, cloaked scouts, ultra heavies) Situational awareness can't include knowledge of cloaked scouts, that comes from a distance. They're too fast and invisible. I heard you about the rate of fire. You're asking for a hybrid between a Rail Rifle and a Sniper Rifle. Nobody is asking for that. If you're going to include a sniper rifle in the game at all it needs to kill effectively from range, and head shots need to be rewarded heavily. @Michael Arck Moving? No. There's nothing tactical about that. You're calling out your position by doing so. It's a lot easier to catch the eye of a counter sniper if you keep trying to find the "best spot" for the moment. There's a process I go through when choosing where to snipe on any given map. It includes examining the enemy team and the map. Thinking about where I'm likely to get the most kills. Keeping safe has little to do with it. I just bring a fit that's appropriate to the location. (Commando) That and the default CCP sniper suit is very slow on foot. As a sniper who runs with your squad your situational awareness is just as good as everyone else in your squad. You are thinking about sniping as sitting on a hill still. In this method you either scope and shoot while standing, compensating for the sway manually, or you drop and shoot, cancelling the majority of the initial sway and having none at all once properly centered. It's only slightly different than the situational awareness afforded by ACOG weapons in Dust, and only because of the high level zoom on the scope. And I'm not looking for a rail rifle hybrid, I also said "or damage increase". If you are going to be vulnerable to attack, you need a viable weapon to deal with your weapon's intended targets. Lower damage isn't as big a deal when retaliation is difficult, but when retaliation is almost guaranteed you need more DPS. This is most easily done by increasing damage or RoF. I wasn't saying this is all that should be done, but it would be a good start to making sniper rifles both good and useful to the whole team. I would personally lean more in favor of a damage increase (~325 STD, ~400 PRO) with SCP level headshot damage (I definitely agree that headshots need to be greatly rewarded, but not to someone hiding out in the hills). This would make the SR a skill weapon with great rewards (headshots from a PRO OHKing virtually any heavy) instead of a ranged patience weapon for people who want to shoot but not be shot at. Just to be clear, I'm not saying snipers are always useless kill stealers. Nor am I saying all snipers sit in the redline farming kills for the sake of farming kills. When there are forge guns camping a tower or swarms of uplinks covering the roof over a vital point, snipers are very useful. But in the majority of cases, they simply sit on the sidelines picking at the enemy, knocking off useless stragglers and noobs. There are a few who know how to play their role properly, but they are a very tiny portion of the snipers out there. The Caldari Commando is a perfect example of a good sniper fit for this role. You can run 2 light weapons, have a fair amount of health, an equipment slot, and get a bonus for your SR at the same time. You watch your squad's back and they watch yours. This is a squad based game, there is no reason that snipers should be able to kill from the safety of the redline unless they are stuck in it. They need to run with their pack, taking high ground, providing cover for the squad as they move, etc, etc, etc. I only mentioned quick scoping because you brought it up. I've never been a quickscoper in any game, it seemed too cheap of a tactic (<---same reason I refused to spec Caldari or Gallente scouts) so I never put in the time to learn how. All I know about it as far as Dust is concerned is what Sleepy told me about it back when I squadded with him to TK blueberries with LAV's January of last year (I miss those days....). If you say it is impossible now, I believe you as I haven't been quick scoped other than by Sleepy. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2014.05.26 21:55:00 - [92] - Quote Here's my view on sniping. -get posted quickly get the first kill of the game drop ships and high places will allow this. -killing stragglers and weak players is contributing. This allows your blueberries to do more. The less enemy players active on the field at one time can certainly increase your chances of victory. If someone is waiting for a tank. Kill them. They're then waiting that much longer. I'm using stragglers to include people standing by themselves. (forge guns, people waiting on vehicles, snipers, people on turrets) -reduce required situational awareness. It's not fun being constantly paranoid. It's not fun getting shotgunned by a cloaked scout. Move to a high place that requires the enemy to come to you. It's the closest thing you'll get to motion detection. -killing identifiable strong players is also contributing. Look for players who never stop moving, take a hit and hide to regenerate, are constantly in the kill feed. And focus the living hell out of them. Sometimes just one or two players can determine flow of battle. These players aren't accustomed to taking a death. They may come after you, but it was worth it. -kill uplinks to funnel enemy spawn Taking out the correct up links wihle leaving just one to force the enemy to repeatedly spawn in a bad location. -call out relevant enemy positions, movements, incoming hacks, vehicles, etc The key is filtering out the irrelevant information.
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2014.05.26 21:58:00 - [93] - Quote This is a game with buildings. (so I will use them) I refuse to jump into the meat grinder while sniping. Caldari Commando is too slow to keep up. Map design doesn't cater to the sniping you'd like to see.
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition Red Whines. 235	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:03:00 - [94] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: This is a game with buildings. (so I will use them) I refuse to jump into the meat grinder while sniping. Caldari Commando is too slow to keep up. Map design doesn't cater to the sniping you'd like to see. The Cal-mando doesn't fair to bad on the ground... put a RR as a primary and work as an opportunistic sniper.... :( sadly you'll be using your RR more than you'd like to but I've gotten up to a 60 kill game with that combo :D so commandos are good now O_o


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