|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
945
   |
Posted - 2014.05.25 15:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
DJINN GITAXIS wrote:Red Line Snipers
1. Not combat effective (generally very low kill counts)
2. If they concern you, counter them. (ADS, Tank, Sniper, OB)
3. Most of them are bad, the best sniping locations are outside of the red line
You shouldn't get worked up defending the player base who refuses to counter snipers, or are too hapless and will consistently stand still so a sniper 500+ meters away can take an easy shot at them.
This.
There are vanishingly few good sniping spots on the maps that aren't close enough to the redline that a good scout can't rush in and pop the sniper and get away clean. HAVs and dropships can do this too.
All the good sniper spots behind the redline can be counter-sniped.
People who mindlessly sit in the redline are usually on teams that are losing (often losing badly). People who mindlessly sit in the redline are often pretty poor snipers.
The best snipers run and gun. They grab spots inside and outside the redline, depending on the situation.
Good snipers hack, drop uplinks and hives, cover and lock down NULL cannons and other hackable structures (sometimes 2 or 3 at once), snipe uplinks and hives, call in intel to their teams (because we can see the overall picture), snipe red guys calling in vehicles, even your odds when two or three reds jump you, cover you when you are hacking (you never even realize when I kill the two reds running at you to kill you), snipe swarm launcher users, wear different types of suits depending on the situation (cloaked scouts to get into very good positions outside the redline; commandos to carry sniper rifles, swarm launchers or rail rifles), snipe the guys on buildings who shoot you and spam grenades on you from above, carry explosives to attach to HAVs or hackable objects (I love doing this), jump into vehicles to rapidly move to important places where they can help quickly, snipe the reds that go after tanks at close quarters, break red momentum, bring that shuffling red sentinel to zero shields and half armor so you can kill him, hack red vehicles when the drivers jump out to hack, harass the reds so much that 3 jump into an LAV and go hunting for the sniper (a few minutes when those three are not shooting at you in CQC, hacking or defending objectives), shoot red medics and their patients, put bullets in downed reds - when you are busy defending yourself and can't finish them, harass reds so they have a harder time grouping together to rush you, counter-snipe and snipe guys with forge guns on tall buildings or perches trying to shoot red tanks.
Learn to multitask and get good at all of the above.
In pubs I sometimes shoot a distracted blue (it causes no damage) to alert him when a red or group of reds is approaching from behind or cloaked. I never do this in FW or PC, though.
In order to get useful proto sniper rifles we have to claw our way up through essentially useless basic and advanced sniper rifles.
We have to play far more games to reach cap each week.
When we are out of ammo we have to take big risks to get to supply depots or we have to pop hives close to where we are (which kind of flags us).
We have to learn to track and time shots on moving targets. This is tough with different speeds, jumping, cloaking and ground that is not flat. I love the challenge, though.
We can't hipfire accurately like the CQC guys can.
Just a few thoughts.
Munch
Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
|
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
947
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 19:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:STABBEY wrote:Why does a weapon that can 1-2 shot almost anything need "love"  It can't, though.
LOL!
STABBEY, try sniping a fatty 550m away. Three shots sometimes four shots (all hits). With a proto sniper rifle, 3 complex damage mods, and a Cal commando (to get a decent damage bonus). This fatty, bye the way, is smaller than the aiming dot in the zoom reticle at 550m.
Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout?
I think we snipers do have a legitimate concern here. Facts and data need to be used to look at our role, not idle speculation, trolls and misinformed perceptions (these are present on both sides, to be honest).
Many other suits, weapons, armor and roles have been given attention over the past year.
One of the devs told me (in these forums) that the new maps and sockets are being deliberately designed to hobble snipers. Are there any maps or sockets that deliberately hobble tanks, medics, scouts, forge guns, shotguns, dropships, cloaks, combat rifles or rail rifles?
I just wish that we could look at this rationally with mature input from both sides.
Munch
Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
|
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
948
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 19:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Poonmunch wrote:
Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout?
I don't think it's reasonable to expect to 1 shot anything but a practically untanked scout, honestly. In a game where someone paid ISK for that suit hitscan instakills from long range are not a good thing.
This is a rational argument.
I like rational arguments.
I'm not asking to one shot a scout as long as the scout has to give up something to get brick tanked. Speed takes a penalty but they can still run pretty fast and are hard to detect.
I pay 47k ISK for my Charge Sniper Rifle (the same as a Duvolle Assault Rifle or other very good light weapon) but a Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle (or other top of the line light weapon) can be bought for 77k ISK. My Thales (the top of the line sniper rifle) can't be purchased, only salvaged (very rarely).
That tanked scout can pop me once with a shotgun in the back of the head and I'm off to the clone vats. Is it fair to ask that I get the same opportunity?
Munch
Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
|
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
949
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 20:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Poonmunch wrote:
One of the devs told me (in these forums) that the new maps and sockets are being deliberately designed to hobble snipers. Are there any maps or sockets that deliberately hobble tanks, medics, scouts, forge guns, shotguns, dropships, cloaks, combat rifles or rail rifles?
Yes. Manus Peak is not a map designed to go well with shotguns or cloaks. The research facility doesn't work brilliantly with tanks. Forge guns don't work in CQC maps like that either. Combat rifles are ungodly powerful regardless of the map design though, yeah. But snipers aren't quite alone in having map design impede them.
Manus Peak, the research facility and the forge gun limitations are there, yes.
But those maps and sockets were not deliberately made to hinder shotguns, cloaks, tanks or forge guns.
Manus Peak seems much more shotgun friendly now that there are cloaks. Hide by a hack point. I get nailed by scouts with shotguns when I'm hacking on that map (well, I get nailed by everyone when I'm hacking).
Check some of this out:
Some Dev Responses Regarding Maps and Snipers - See Post #70
Those discussions were going on last September.
Munch
Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
|
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
949
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 20:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:skippy678 wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The very, very, very last thing Dust needs right now is more passive, campy gameplay. But you must admit Thor.....sniping is pretty useless as it stands and could use a buff..pretty bigtime...I used to be able to go 40ish-0 and now im lucky if i get to 15. Uh... I'm a little dubious about being able to go 40-0 being used as a benchmark for balance.
Ditto.
Munch
Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
|
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
949
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 21:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
I have a few questions for you, Munch.
1) Should snipers have direct LOS on consoles?
2) How many shots do you think it should take for a scout, assault, logistics, and sentinel dropsuit?
3) What do you think of redline sniping?
1) No. That would be super unfair. At the same time not all consoles should be buried in bunkers under three tons of concrete and steel.
2) This depends on the sniper rifle variant. The basic and advanced tier sniper rifles are darn near useless now. Noobs have a hard enough climb to get to proto. They need a boost.
I think all headshots should be one hit kills for the advanced and proto sniper rifles. Heads attached to running bodies are hard to hit and skill hitting that area should be rewarded.
As long as brick tanked suits give up something to get brick tanked I'm ok with several shots on any of them, except the scout. Scouts should be fast and hard to detect. They shouldn't be 50 cal sponges.
Exact numbers for answers to this type of question need data.
3) If you read through any sniper thread I have posted in, I likely address redline snipers. I use "behind the redline" when it helps my team. I use "in front of the redline" when it helps my team, I use hacking to help my team, I drop uplinks and hives to help my team. I sit cloaked in some places VERY close to consoles to help my team. Sometimes I sit in hallways, cloaked, waiting for a scout to show up. I use remotes to help my team (a sniper is perfect for this role - we can see them coming). When I run a commando sniper I almost always grab a proto swarm launcher to help with red dropships, HAVs and LAVs.
Whatever it takes.
I dislike forge gunners that camp perches. But I also love these guys because I can snipe them.
I dislike tanks that sit behind the redline and plink away at reds.
I dislike dropships that can get to maximum altitude in 5 seconds (another type of redline) before my swarms can reach them.
I dislike fatties and cloaked reds that camp consoles behind three tons of concrete and steel. A type of redline you can't shoot into.
I dislike blues who think it is fun to stack REs behind me and blow them up two seconds before a FW game ends.
And like anyone else, I dislike snipers that sit in one place and plink away at reds. But I also love these guys because I can snipe them.
The redline is a convoluted mechanic but it is necessary so games can be played out completely.
Imagine no redline. If the blue team pushes the other off the map, the reds have no place to regroup. Then the reds just hide wherever they can. Or they stop playing. And the game goes on for another 3 minutes while the red MCC takes enough damage to explode (boring). Or the blue team has to find enough reds to kill so they win by cloning the reds (scut work - like ratting in EVE).
*****
If you have any other questions, let me know. I'd be happy to answer them.
Munch
Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
|
|
|
| |
|