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Sniper Rifles seeing no love in HOTFIX ALPHA

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Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13737	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:58:00 - [1] - Quote This thread is another excellent example of typical forum trash. This goes for both sides. Nobody here is actually discussing anything productively and practically this entire thread has been spent bashing on the other side rather than trying to get something productive discussed. OP, would you like to explain why you feel said buffs are necessary in your original post? If you just post your suggested buff and no justification with it then it's an invitation for terrible posting. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13738	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:08:00 - [2] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Have you not seen the sister thread to this? The one with 4,000 views? The pages of justification. Keeping both bumped at the same time. There's not much left to explain. If you would like though I'll edit it.. hopefully not into a novel. Combine that with no DEV response.. and it spawns another thread hoping to get some attention before the next hot fix. I don't mean justification later in the thread, I mean in your initial post. If you don't justify it there, what kind of reply does that invite? Something like what Boba posted, and the kind of drivel that the thread quickly got filled with. I am no stranger to threadnaughts with no dev response - however, spamming the forum with more threads (but of worse quality) on the same topic won't encourage one. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13739	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:47:00 - [3] - Quote Much better. Some of those are really indirect though. o_O You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:49:00 - [4] - Quote STABBEY wrote: Why does a weapon that can 1-2 shot almost anything need "love" It can't, though. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:08:00 - [5] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Atiim wrote: I'm not one to make excuses, but I'm almost done. I'm simply gathering data about the max rendering range of the Sniper Rifle, compared to the Absolute range of the Sniper Rifle, which will aid me in my argument about making the zoom adjustable. Adjustable zoom is a new game mechanic. I would like that to be included as part of either a sniper overhaul or with a new rifle altogether when the racial variants are released. This is not going to happen in DUST. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:22:00 - [6] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout? I don't think it's reasonable to expect to 1 shot anything but a practically untanked scout, honestly. In a game where someone paid ISK for that suit hitscan instakills from long range are not a good thing. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:26:00 - [7] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Poonmunch wrote: Try sniping a fast-moving brick-tanked scout with the same sniper rig. Two shots, for the love of god. If you can hit it twice, that is. A scout? I don't think it's reasonable to expect to 1 shot anything but a practically untanked scout, honestly. In a game where someone paid ISK for that suit hitscan instakills from long range are not a good thing. We're talking headshot bonus damage, and not having to unload 3 clips of a tactical into a heavy to kill it. No, that specific part that I quoted was questioning why snipers weren't one shotting a form of bricktank. 3 clips of a tactical into a heavy is unreasonable, I agree. It needs to be able to kill them more efficiently than that. Poonmunch wrote: One of the devs told me (in these forums) that the new maps and sockets are being deliberately designed to hobble snipers. Are there any maps or sockets that deliberately hobble tanks, medics, scouts, forge guns, shotguns, dropships, cloaks, combat rifles or rail rifles? Yes. Manus Peak is not a map designed to go well with shotguns or cloaks. The research facility doesn't work brilliantly with tanks. Forge guns don't work in CQC maps like that either. Combat rifles are ungodly powerful regardless of the map design though, yeah. But snipers aren't quite alone in having map design impede them. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13741	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:36:00 - [8] - Quote DJIIN GITAXIS wrote: You missed it though. ALL OF THE GALLENTE MAPS are "anti-sniper". You can snipe into exactly.. ZERO objectives. I don't think the developers anticipated cloaking + side strafing while hacking an objective.. 50% miss chance if moving + cloaked so not even sure where the guy is really can't anticipate crap. And on top of that I need to 2 shot the guy with a charge rifle? Good luck. The Gallente research facility being anti-sniper is no worse than Manus Peak being anti-shotgun or the research facility being anti-tank. By sniping into an objective, do you mean direct LOS on a console or do you mean on the area around the objective? 50% miss chance is a completely random number you've thrown out, by the way. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13742	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:49:00 - [9] - Quote While strafing on consoles may be a problem for snipers, reducing the ability to do that would have huge knock-on effects throughout the rest of the game. If you could OHKO the hacker, that immediately catapults the sniper to a very, very powerful level - overly so. If you can easily instantly kill people at long range with zero opportunity for them to react to you or attempt to protect themselves from you, that's overpowered. If 2 shotting people on a console is a problem for snipers, what do you suggest the solution to that is? I agree that it's a problem if it's taking multiple clips to down anything but I don't think OHKOing anything but the least tanked of targets is reasonable. Also, I'd like to ask again - do you think it's reasonable for a sniper to have direct line of sight on a console? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13743	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:59:00 - [10] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: I'm not asking to one shot a scout as long as the scout has to give up something to get brick tanked. Speed takes a penalty but they can still run pretty fast and are hard to detect. Oh absolutely, I completely agree. That's a huge problem with the infantry game at the moment and things need to be done to fix that. Quote: I pay 47k ISK for my Charge Sniper Rifle (the same as a Duvolle Assault Rifle or other very good light weapon) but a Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle (or other top of the line light weapon) can be bought for 77k ISK. My Thales (the top of the line sniper rifle) can't be purchased, only salvaged (very rarely). That tanked scout can pop me once with a shotgun in the back of the head and I'm off to the clone vats. Is it fair to ask that I get the same opportunity? There's a little more to both of these points than just direct ISK comparisons and direct TTK comparisons. In terms of ISK, it's a risk/reward thing. An assault rifle is likely to be in front line CQC conflict a lot and is thus at a greater risk of being lost. With a sniper, you're at a much longer range, are more difficult to locate, and can't be hit back at with most weapons. There is also the redline to consider - although you personally (and some other snipers) may come out of the redline, it is still a very effective tool for protecting yourself and reducing the risk. Some better sniping spots are certainly outside the redline - but a favourite of mine on Manus Peak allows you direct line of sight on the 'A' console from the redline (depending on which side you're on) and sometimes either B or C as well. Instantly pegging said Duvolle user gives you a very high reward for relatively low risk. Also, comparing the ease of access for a Duvolle to a Thale's isn't really fair. A more fair comparison would be the Balac's or Krin's compared to the Thale's. I'm not really a fan of scouts instakilling things with shotguns either, but it's a risk/reward thing again. The scout is within 5m of you to kill you like that. That's quite a lot riskier than sniping from afar - although arguably the cloaky shotgun scout isn't at much risk I would point that out as its own problem that needs to be addressed rather than it being a problem with snipers in general. I have a few questions for you, Munch. 1) Should snipers have direct LOS on consoles? 2) How many shots do you think it should take for a scout, assault, logistics, and sentinel dropsuit? 3) What do you think of redline sniping? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13743	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:02:00 - [11] - Quote skippy678 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: The very, very, very last thing Dust needs right now is more passive, campy gameplay. But you must admit Thor.....sniping is pretty useless as it stands and could use a buff..pretty bigtime...I used to be able to go 40ish-0 and now im lucky if i get to 15. Uh... I'm a little dubious about being able to go 40-0 being used as a benchmark for balance. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13745	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:30:00 - [12] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Manus Peak, the research facility and the forge gun limitations are there, yes. But those maps and sockets were not deliberately made to hinder shotguns, cloaks, tanks or forge guns. Whether or not the effect is deliberate the result is the same, even if it's unintentional. Also, the dev responsible for designing the maps 'specifically for hindering snipers' IIRC is no longer working at CCP. I think it's quite natural for some tactics and playstyles to not work equally well on all maps. Although I'd like to see a little more sniping on the research facility, I'm quite fine with there being maps designed for CQC infantry slugfests just as there are open maps like Manus Peak which are ideal for snipers. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13752	Posted - 2014.05.26 13:07:00 - [13] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: -snip- I doubt you even snipe. -snip- ^^ This whole thing alludes to quick scoping ^^ and that's complete garbage best left in Call of Duty for crappy players. Just stop. Baal made his points without attacking you, Gitaxis. Why can't you do the same? @Baal - I don't think an optimal of 80m is remotely reasonable. The sniper needs a lot more range than that - it's outranged by a laser rifle at that point. An optimal of 600m just encourages redline sniping but if the optimal -and- absolute were 300m that would start to force people out of the redline. At that point, you can start buffing the sniper without needing to worry about the problem of redline sniper spam. 80m is far too short though. Far, far too short. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1

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