Not sure if this has been mentioned, but these are my numbers I feel like providing that were from another thread regarding brick tanked scouts.

Thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2168014#post2168014

One Eyed King wrote:
"Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak."

Me:
A suggestion in another thread was to make armour plating (and potentially shield extenders) percentage based. An example of this would be the following:

Let's say that complex armour plates offer 80% more armour to your suit, instead of a fixed 148.5 HP (135*1.1)

Single Plate Values:

-- Gallente Scout has 130 armour HP by default. , which equates to 234 armour

-- Gallente Logi has 180 armour HP by default, which equates to 324 armour

-- Gallente Assault has 210 armour HP by default. which equates to 378 armour

-- Gellente Sentinel has 525 armour HP by default, which equates to 945 armour

Proto Suit Values When Fully Stacked:

-- Gallente Scout > 546 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (32.5), 578.5 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Logi > 900 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (45), 945 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Assault > 882 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (52.5), 934.5 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Sentinel > 2,025 armour, +25% of the default armour HP form the Armour Skill (131.25), 2,156.25 armour HP

... it may be wise to introduce a stacking penalty

Estimated Penalty Values:

-- 1st plate: 80%, 2nd plate: 70%, 3rd plate: 55%, 4th plate: 25%, 5th plate: 8%

Armour HP Values When Using the Above Penalty With Fully Stacked Proto Suits:

-- Gallente Scout > 1st plate: 104 HP, 2nd plate: 91 HP, 3rd plate: 71.5 HP, 4th plate: 32.5 HP
Total HP: 429, +Armour Skill, 461.5 maximum armour HP.

-- Gallente Logi > 1st plate: 144 HP, 2nd plate: 126 HP, 3rd plate: 99 HP, 4th plate: 45 HP, 5th plate: 14.4 HP
Total HP: 608.4, +Armour Skill, 653.4 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Assault > 1st plate: 168 HP, 2nd plate: 147 HP, 3rd plate: 115.5 HP, 4th plate: 52.5 HP
Total HP: 547, +Armour Skill, 599.5 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Sentinel > 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP
Total HP: 1,732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP

Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal Perhaps it would work without the stacking penalties, and just reduced the default Gellente Sentinal's armour HP, which is 525, to about 400 HP.

I'm not sure what the hell you're doing, but the max HP that a Gallente sentinel with max skills can have is 1800.
Check your math.

someone mentioned % bonus instead of fixed amount bonus. That is the best idea anyone has had about armor plates and shield extenders EVER.

That's exactly what they should do.

I don't remember where I saw it (probably the same place you did), but I hope my post provides a good example as to how well this can work.

We need a lively discussion on this one.

Status update (yes I know you know)

Plates are being used to stack EHP in over abundance. There is little drawback to that strategy and the other options are not competitive/viable.

This is having a big effect on the landscape, both brick tanked scouts and heavies, making scramblers/flux weapons out of place.

I would like to hear ideas on how to remedy that. For insight, these are the armor modules ordered by consumption

1. Plates
2. Repair
3. Reactive
4. Ferroscale

out of the three plates, normal plates are 85& prevalent and the other two split the difference.

How to make them viable, and also a bonus question, can "active" armor tanking be viable without being OP. My GA sentinel with 4 pro reps is not competitive, fun, but not competitive.

Discuss.

Its the high fitting cost of complex reactive and ferroscale plates. Why would i bother struggling to fix a complex reactive plate for so little gain in HP or armor regen when i can put an enhanced one on and a repper? Thats pretty much it.

You can't just think of plates in just gallente terms, especially in armor based suits which by ther very nature are difficult for scramblers and flux weapons.

Also, yes heavies should brick tank because they're huge slow moving targets. Scouts probably shouldn't, but even then its not scouts that are merely bricktanking that seem to cause so many problems. Its the shooting while cloaked ability they have that make scouts so rage inducing.

We need a lively discussion on this one.

Status update (yes I know you know)

Plates are being used to stack EHP in over abundance. There is little drawback to that strategy and the other options are not competitive/viable.

This is having a big effect on the landscape, both brick tanked scouts and heavies, making scramblers/flux weapons out of place.

I would like to hear ideas on how to remedy that. For insight, these are the armor modules ordered by consumption

1. Plates
2. Repair
3. Reactive
4. Ferroscale

out of the three plates, normal plates are 85& prevalent and the other two split the difference.

How to make them viable, and also a bonus question, can "active" armor tanking be viable without being OP. My GA sentinel with 4 pro reps is not competitive, fun, but not competitive.

Discuss.

We need a lively discussion on this one.

Status update (yes I know you know)

Plates are being used to stack EHP in over abundance. There is little drawback to that strategy and the other options are not competitive/viable.

This is having a big effect on the landscape, both brick tanked scouts and heavies, making scramblers/flux weapons out of place.

I would like to hear ideas on how to remedy that. For insight, these are the armor modules ordered by consumption

1. Plates
2. Repair
3. Reactive
4. Ferroscale

out of the three plates, normal plates are 85& prevalent and the other two split the difference.

How to make them viable, and also a bonus question, can "active" armor tanking be viable without being OP. My GA sentinel with 4 pro reps is not competitive, fun, but not competitive.

Discuss.

I think that a basic shield extender giving somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 hp would be more realistic. At least then you have ~half the functionality of a basic plate. Enhanced extender of maybe 55-60 and complex of max 80-85. That way there is a clear distinction between tiers of module and a reasonable lower limit. Stacking penalties should be extremely severe (as has been discussed in the armor rebalancing thread) such that modules of the same tier should have significantly reduced effectiveness.

With a complex shield extender maxing out at 80-85 that keeps shields well below the buffer potential of armor. Ferroscale plates could max out around 100 hp at complex and enhanced level around 80-85 (approximately 1 tier above shield and 1 tier below regular plates) with fitting costs split between shield extender and reg plates (ie higher cpu than plates, lower than shields and ~ same pg 11-12)

The changes I'm proposing would only work, and balance, IF and only IF something significant is done to reduce the benefits of stacking buffer modules to the exclusion of all else. (significant stacking penalties and increased bonuses to auxiliary buffer mods (energizer, repper, etc.) If stacking isn't modified then changing hp amounts will only exacerbate the current balance situation. I'm hopeful, based on the development discussion in the armor balance threads, that something will be done to rectify the situation somewhat in which case there might be some further things, such as what I'm suggesting, that could diversify the fitting meta.

What I think :
Ferroscale plates give too much HP for no drawback. I don't like them (OP). Shields, in the other hand, give not much HP for a useless drawback (delay isn't much trouble and can be counter with regulator easily). Why shield aren't like I've heard it is on Eve : increase shield HP while making the hitbox larger ? Balancing armor and shield in a more "Eve" way would be more interesting according to me. They would both give same HP value, armor would reduce speed, shield would increase hitbox size.
For the bonus question, introducing some rep modules like you did for shield (drastically increase regen while reducing total HP) could make the thing.

Copy pated from https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2172963#post2172963

Here is my plan to fixing a lot of these problems

Problem:
Shield extenders don't have a balanced progression

Solution:
Make enhanced shield extenders give 44 HP instead of 33; 22/44/66 makes a hole lot more sense.

Problem:
Armor plates give too much HP for the amount of PG they take up.

Solution:
Instead of making armor plate take up high CPU and low PG, reverse that in a balanced way like how armor plates for vehicles and EVE are more PG intensive than CPU. Its crazy how plates take up less PG than shield extenders.

Problem:
Reactives and ferroscales are rarely used compared to regular plates

Solutions:
Increase speed penalty for normal plates to 3/5/7%

Make ferroscales cost as much as regular plates.

Change ferroscale plates to have a consistent progression of 30/55/75 HP instead of their current 35/50/75.

Change reactives to 25/47/69 and give them all a 2hp/s repair rate like the standard armor repair module and make the speed penalty 1/2/3%

Problem:
Armor repair modules aren't used as much as they should and they don't have a balanced repair progression

Solution:
Make repair modules give 2/4/6 HP/s.

Problems:
Shield rechargers and energizers aren't being used as much and shield regulators take up too much resources for its small bonus, making them not worth taking up a slot.

Solutions:
Lower PG/CPU cost of shield rechargers, energizers, and regulators a little.
Give rechargers and energizers a small buff
Give regulators a normal sized buff
Make rechargers & energizers low slot modules.
Fix Amarr's. Minmatars, and Caldari's basic frame and assaults slot layouts. Basically, here's what a assault/logi's slot layout & progression should be:

Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).
Give all assaults the same number of mod slots.
Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier:
Make medium frames become something in between the specialized assaults and logis by having 2 equipments slots

Assault & logi STD (high/low)
Am: 2/4
Ga: 2/4
Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi)
Min: 3/3

Assault & logi ADV
Am: 2/5
Ga: 3/4
Ca: 5/2
Min: 4/3

Assault & logi PRO
Am: 3/5
Ga: 3/5
Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi)
Min: 4/4

After these changes, we'll see what would need to be retweaked. What do you guys think?Copy pated from https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2172963#post2172963

Here is my plan to fixing a lot of these problems

Problem:
Shield extenders don't have a balanced progression

Solution:
Make enhanced shield extenders give 44 HP instead of 33; 22/44/66 makes a hole lot more sense.

Problem:
Armor plates give too much HP for the amount of PG they take up.

Solution:
Instead of making armor plate take up high CPU and low PG, reverse that in a balanced way like how armor plates for vehicles and EVE are more PG intensive than CPU. Its crazy how plates take up less PG than shield extenders.

Problem:
Reactives and ferroscales are rarely used compared to regular plates

Solutions:
Increase speed penalty for normal plates to 3/5/7%

Make ferroscales cost as much as regular plates.

Change ferroscale plates to have a consistent progression of 30/55/75 HP instead of their current 35/50/75.

Change reactives to 25/47/69 and give them all a 2hp/s repair rate like the standard armor repair module and make the speed penalty 1/2/3%

Problems:
Shield rechargers and energizers aren't being used as much and shield regulators take up too much resources for its small bonus, making them not worth taking up a slot.

Solutions:
Lower PG/CPU cost of shield rechargers, energizers, and regulators a little.
Give rechargers and energizers a small buff
Give regulators a normal sized buff
Make rechargers & energizers low slot modules.
Fix Amarr's. Minmatars, and Caldari's basic frame and assaults slot layouts. Basically, here's what a assault/logi's slot layout & progression should be:

Give the Cal logistics 3 equip slots at STD. Also 4 equip at PRO (reduce mod slot from 9 to 8 in exchange).
Give all assaults the same number of mod slots.
Equalize the mod slot layouts for assaults & logis of the same race & tier:
Make medium frames become something in between the specialized assaults and logis by having 2 equipments slots

Assault & logi STD (high/low)
Am: 2/4
Ga: 2/4
Ca: 4/2 (+1 equip for logi)
Min: 3/3

Assault & logi ADV
Am: 2/5
Ga: 3/4
Ca: 5/2
Min: 4/3

Assault & logi PRO
Am: 3/5
Ga: 3/5
Ca: 5/3 (+1 equip for logi)
Min: 4/4

After these changes, we'll see what would need to be retweaked. What do you guys think?

Thanks, we are very much aligned on this proposal actually. Keep an eye out for our next formal communication.

I really wish that you and the other awesome devs were in charge/working on Dust from the start.