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Cat Merc wrote:

Temias Mercurial wrote:

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but these are my numbers I feel like providing that were from another thread regarding brick tanked scouts.

Thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2168014#post2168014

One Eyed King wrote:
"Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak."

Me:
A suggestion in another thread was to make armour plating (and potentially shield extenders) percentage based. An example of this would be the following:

Let's say that complex armour plates offer 80% more armour to your suit, instead of a fixed 148.5 HP (135*1.1)

Single Plate Values:

-- Gallente Scout has 130 armour HP by default. , which equates to 234 armour

-- Gallente Logi has 180 armour HP by default, which equates to 324 armour

-- Gallente Assault has 210 armour HP by default. which equates to 378 armour

-- Gellente Sentinel has 525 armour HP by default, which equates to 945 armour

Proto Suit Values When Fully Stacked:

-- Gallente Scout > 546 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (32.5), 578.5 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Logi > 900 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (45), 945 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Assault > 882 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (52.5), 934.5 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Sentinel > 2,025 armour, +25% of the default armour HP form the Armour Skill (131.25), 2,156.25 armour HP

... it may be wise to introduce a stacking penalty Shocked

Estimated Penalty Values:

-- 1st plate: 80%, 2nd plate: 70%, 3rd plate: 55%, 4th plate: 25%, 5th plate: 8%

Armour HP Values When Using the Above Penalty With Fully Stacked Proto Suits:

-- Gallente Scout > 1st plate: 104 HP, 2nd plate: 91 HP, 3rd plate: 71.5 HP, 4th plate: 32.5 HP
Total HP: 429, +Armour Skill, 461.5 maximum armour HP.

-- Gallente Logi > 1st plate: 144 HP, 2nd plate: 126 HP, 3rd plate: 99 HP, 4th plate: 45 HP, 5th plate: 14.4 HP
Total HP: 608.4, +Armour Skill, 653.4 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Assault > 1st plate: 168 HP, 2nd plate: 147 HP, 3rd plate: 115.5 HP, 4th plate: 52.5 HP
Total HP: 547, +Armour Skill, 599.5 maximum armour HP

-- Gallente Sentinel > 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP
Total HP: 1,732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP

Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal Shocked

Perhaps it would work without the stacking penalties, and just reduced the default Gellente Sentinal's armour HP, which is 525, to about 400 HP.

I'm not sure what the hell you're doing, but the max HP that a Gallente sentinel with max skills can have is 1800.
Check your math.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 84	Posted - 2014.05.19 16:29:00 - [1] - Quote Not sure if this has been mentioned, but these are my numbers I feel like providing that were from another thread regarding brick tanked scouts. Thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2168014#post2168014 One Eyed King wrote: "Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak." Me: A suggestion in another thread was to make armour plating (and potentially shield extenders) percentage based. An example of this would be the following: Let's say that complex armour plates offer 80% more armour to your suit, instead of a fixed 148.5 HP (1351.1) Single Plate Values:* -- Gallente Scout has 130 armour HP by default. , which equates to 234 armour -- Gallente Logi has 180 armour HP by default, which equates to 324 armour -- Gallente Assault has 210 armour HP by default. which equates to 378 armour -- Gellente Sentinel has 525 armour HP by default, which equates to 945 armour Proto Suit Values When Fully Stacked: -- Gallente Scout > 546 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (32.5), 578.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Logi > 900 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (45), 945 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Assault > 882 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (52.5), 934.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Sentinel > 2,025 armour, +25% of the default armour HP form the Armour Skill (131.25), 2,156.25 armour HP ... it may be wise to introduce a stacking penalty Estimated Penalty Values: -- 1st plate: 80%, 2nd plate: 70%, 3rd plate: 55%, 4th plate: 25%, 5th plate: 8% Armour HP Values When Using the Above Penalty With Fully Stacked Proto Suits: -- Gallente Scout > 1st plate: 104 HP, 2nd plate: 91 HP, 3rd plate: 71.5 HP, 4th plate: 32.5 HP Total HP: 429, +Armour Skill, 461.5 maximum armour HP. -- Gallente Logi > 1st plate: 144 HP, 2nd plate: 126 HP, 3rd plate: 99 HP, 4th plate: 45 HP, 5th plate: 14.4 HP Total HP: 608.4, +Armour Skill, 653.4 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Assault > 1st plate: 168 HP, 2nd plate: 147 HP, 3rd plate: 115.5 HP, 4th plate: 52.5 HP Total HP: 547, +Armour Skill, 599.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Sentinel > 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP Total HP: 1,732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal Perhaps it would work without the stacking penalties, and just reduced the default Gellente Sentinal's armour HP, which is 525, to about 400 HP.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 84	Posted - 2014.05.19 21:06:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Not sure if this has been mentioned, but these are my numbers I feel like providing that were from another thread regarding brick tanked scouts. Thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2168014#post2168014 One Eyed King wrote: "Taking away the dampening doesn't fix the problem. It will only force Minmatar scouts to go Gallente so they can dampen their profile enough. It is the tanking that is the problem that needs fixing, not the dampening of the cloak." Me: A suggestion in another thread was to make armour plating (and potentially shield extenders) percentage based. An example of this would be the following: Let's say that complex armour plates offer 80% more armour to your suit, instead of a fixed 148.5 HP (1351.1) Single Plate Values:* -- Gallente Scout has 130 armour HP by default. , which equates to 234 armour -- Gallente Logi has 180 armour HP by default, which equates to 324 armour -- Gallente Assault has 210 armour HP by default. which equates to 378 armour -- Gellente Sentinel has 525 armour HP by default, which equates to 945 armour Proto Suit Values When Fully Stacked: -- Gallente Scout > 546 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (32.5), 578.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Logi > 900 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (45), 945 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Assault > 882 armour, +25% of the default armour HP from the Armour Skill (52.5), 934.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Sentinel > 2,025 armour, +25% of the default armour HP form the Armour Skill (131.25), 2,156.25 armour HP ... it may be wise to introduce a stacking penalty Estimated Penalty Values: -- 1st plate: 80%, 2nd plate: 70%, 3rd plate: 55%, 4th plate: 25%, 5th plate: 8% Armour HP Values When Using the Above Penalty With Fully Stacked Proto Suits: -- Gallente Scout > 1st plate: 104 HP, 2nd plate: 91 HP, 3rd plate: 71.5 HP, 4th plate: 32.5 HP Total HP: 429, +Armour Skill, 461.5 maximum armour HP. -- Gallente Logi > 1st plate: 144 HP, 2nd plate: 126 HP, 3rd plate: 99 HP, 4th plate: 45 HP, 5th plate: 14.4 HP Total HP: 608.4, +Armour Skill, 653.4 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Assault > 1st plate: 168 HP, 2nd plate: 147 HP, 3rd plate: 115.5 HP, 4th plate: 52.5 HP Total HP: 547, +Armour Skill, 599.5 maximum armour HP -- Gallente Sentinel > 1st plate: 420 HP, 2nd plate: 367.5 HP, 3rd plate: 288.75 HP, 131.25 HP Total HP: 1,732.5, +Armour Skill, 1,863.75 maximum armour HP Not too sure how I feel about this... that Gallente Sentinal Perhaps it would work without the stacking penalties, and just reduced the default Gellente Sentinal's armour HP, which is 525, to about 400 HP. I'm not sure what the hell you're doing, but the max HP that a Gallente sentinel with max skills can have is 1800. Check your math. You missed the part when I said "Let's say that complex armour plates offer 80% more armour to your suit, instead of a fixed 148.5 HP (135*1.1)" I'm well aware that current stats will only allow an approximate 1800 HP, including armour and shields. What I have suggested, with the complaint of brick tanked scouts and balancing, is my 2 cents of fixing it, as long as the Gallente (and probably Amarr) Sentinel have their armour stat reduced slightly. Just a small amount of around 70 armour HP.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 84	Posted - 2014.05.20 01:44:00 - [3] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: someone mentioned % bonus instead of fixed amount bonus. That is the best idea anyone has had about armor plates and shield extenders EVER. That's exactly what they should do. I don't remember where I saw it (probably the same place you did), but I hope my post provides a good example as to how well this can work.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 85	Posted - 2014.05.20 14:19:00 - [4] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Its the high fitting cost of complex reactive and ferroscale plates. Why would i bother struggling to fix a complex reactive plate for so little gain in HP or armor regen when i can put an enhanced one on and a repper? Thats pretty much it. You can't just think of plates in just gallente terms, especially in armor based suits which by ther very nature are difficult for scramblers and flux weapons. Also, yes heavies should brick tank because they're huge slow moving targets. Scouts probably shouldn't, but even then its not scouts that are merely bricktanking that seem to cause so many problems. Its the shooting while cloaked ability they have that make scouts so rage inducing. I honestly don't see as to why ferroscale plates reguire more resources than normal plating. Yes, the benefit is having no speed penalty, but that doesn't make them useful for tanking whatsoever, especially for a heavy. A heavy with normal plating is considerably more powerful than one with ferroscale plating. There's no question to it... so why do they require more cpu/pg? If anything, normal plating should require slightly more resources than ferroscale. Even then, they still don't seem quite worth it themselves. I'd like it if CCP could implement more high slot modules, specifically more shield modules, like Heavy Shielding, which would nicely complement the Caldari Sentinel, as long as the module has high CPU and low PG to suit the stats. Perhaps a heftier penalty in shield recharge and/or delay. What we need is variety, and it's sad that we don't have it.