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matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Dirt Nap Squad. 42	Posted - 2014.05.16 19:55:00 - [31] - Quote well for one if the ferroscale / reactive weren't terrible fitting efficiency wise then they would see more use, and it would also give opportunity to reduce the effectiveness of the normal plates, but more importantly i thing normal plates need better scaling might just help doing that alone though. but all that is secondary this is the core issue at hand, and why plate stacking is too effective PLATES ARE JUST AS GOOD ON EVERY SUIT IF YOU CAN FIT THEM same goes for shield, but plates are the core issue right now, so as shield focused suit i have no reason not to fit plates, they don't hurt a ton, and more importantly they aren't LESS effective than my desired tank, EVE has this solved by the fact that there is WAYYY more to a good tank than raw hp, and dust raw hp / regen is all we have. so the slot counts relatively speaking mean more to an eve player. looking at regen rates though, shield should get even better at it;s thing, i'd give it slightly longer delays but wayy amp up the recharge rate, so once you disengage you heal very fast, but more delay before that kicks in. so say 6s delay but 100+ hp/s to balance armor regen now we've slapped plates about and made stacking basics a silly waste of fitting and since armor is always on it just needs a buff so it matters in terms of dps it seems the dps of the average mainline gun (assuming real world trigger pull rate) is 400 mark theoretical toss in players miss and assume 50%, so by that note, an complex armor repair should make that effectively 10% less dps, so 20 hp/s or so on a complex repair, 6% for adv and 3% for basic gives us 12/s and 6/s respectively. in this scenario stacking repair modules gives you advantage in 1v1, but many v1 not as much, and more importantly you still recover far slower than the new shield regen rates, this also makes bringing the reduction up a little. lastly back to reactives and ferroscales, i would see 1 reactive ~= 1 armor + 1 rep from the tier lower, with a slight fitting benefit, so a complex reactive is 12/s hp and whatever an advanced is armor
jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1512	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:15:00 - [32] - Quote Stopped reading after increase shield delay, -1 Closed beta vet.
Earl Crushinator Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 209	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:24:00 - [33] - Quote I'm a big fan of active armor tanking on a minmatar logi suit... Probably a throwback to when they have the innate armor repair bonus. The fitting cost for amour plates should be inline with Shield extenders or at least directly proportional to the amount of HP they provide. Ferroscale plates should have the same fitting costs as the normal plates but at a reduced Armor HP gain.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 430	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:59:00 - [34] - Quote Ok, first of all: From what I've seen, skill bonuses to armor plates and reppers do not apply to ferroscales and reactive plates. That's one of the reasons why those modules are less attractive. On tanking styles: Shields might profit from higher customizability. This means that modules would simply have more extreme bonuses, with far higher penalties. For example, shield extenders don't just give a bit of HP and a small penalty to recharge delay, but instead add a huge penalty to recharge delay and add a lot of HP. The idea is that you are free to front-load armor, while paying the price afterwards. A front-loaded armor will be good in a stand-up fight, but it will take ages to regenerate and there's no repair tools to help you fix that issue. Meanwhile, a hit and run player could use shield loading modules to have basically instant regeneration. They'd have a higher recharge delay, which wouldn't be as high as with shield extenders, but it wouldn't matter for someone who intends to go in, kill a few dudes and then go into hiding. I'd also suggest changing the modules and their associated penalties to make this system abuse-free. Shield regulators + shield extenders might be completely broken otherwise. As for active tanking, the idea of pulsing regeneration that someone mentioned sounds interesting. In contrast to shields, it would run constantly, independant of damage taken - A timer in the lower left, using the same indicator as active equipment, would indicate when a big chunk of HP would be restored. This would affect the tactics - Amarr would use the brute force of their armor, while Gallente has to fight tooth and nail to survive, because each second of survival is another second closer to the next burst of healing. It also fits nicely with their close-range nature in terms of weapons. For this, passive heal would still be active all the time, but active heal would be added on top. However, I'm not sure how exactly it should be implemented and if passive heal would need to be toned down. My first idea was some kind of reversed stacking penalty - Equip a repper and you gain an inert active tanking module, which is not accessible through the player's UI, in contrast to other equipment. Add another repper and the active tanking module goes active and starts pulsing with a fixed cooldown. Add a third and fourth to strengthen the rep bursts even more. Hell, you could link this to reactive plates, which could lower the delay between pulses. I'm not sure if that's even possible under your current constraints, though.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 770	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:30:00 - [35] - Quote Hi. I would like to speak about my experiences armor tanking. I've armor tanked nearly all of my suits since chromosome and currently my primary suits is the Amarr scout. I generally run 1-2 Complex reactive plates on my fits. I really like how they are but I would like to point out how ridiculous they are to fit for what you get. One complex reactive plate costs 36 CPU and 16 PG for 60 armor, 2hp/s and a 1% movement penalty while a basic plate and a basic repair will give me 85 armor, the same penalty and rep for 30 CPU and 2 PG. They either need reduced fitting costs or have a higher repair rate. TDBS "Does Krin want his gun back?" - sub random nub
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1535	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:54:00 - [36] - Quote I think regular plates cost too little given the significant benefits they give as it stands. That may not be the case if stats change, but as the stats are now, there is too little sacrifice. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 785	Posted - 2014.05.16 22:02:00 - [37] - Quote Here's an illustrative example of just how hugely overpowered basic plates are, compared to their minuscule fitting costs. http://i.imgur.com/SDHzvbp.png Dust/Eve transfers
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 516	Posted - 2014.05.16 22:07:00 - [38] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Here's an illustrative example of just how hugely overpowered basic plates are, compared to their minuscule fitting costs. http://i.imgur.com/SDHzvbp.png So much this. And then some more. Now, look at it again. Also, print it and paste it over your screen so you get to look at it some more.
Marc Rime 399	Posted - 2014.05.16 22:16:00 - [39] - Quote Either: - Give all suits a built in repair rate (even shield suits should have 1hp/sec, while other suits get more). This will allow you to lower the armour values of normal plates slightly since they don't have to be balanced around the need of a repair module in one or more lows.[/list] or: - Make armour repairers high slot modules. This should allow you to lower the armour values of normal plates quite a bit. (or both of the above ;)).[/list] Furthermore: - Add a penalty when stacking more than two plates. For instance, you could severly increase the speed penalty (or just lower the additional armour you get). [/list]
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10798	Posted - 2014.05.16 22:32:00 - [40] - Quote Reactives and ferroscales are awful. There have been many threads on the subject (1) (2). They either need a buff, OR a decrease in PG/CPU. Cat Merc wrote: Reactive armor plates and Ferroscale armor plates have enough downsides without prohibitve CPU/PG requirements. Ferroscale plates at the complex level give the same HP as a basic plate. Reactive plates at the complex level give 2hp/s and half of that of a basic plate. There is no reason for either of those to cost so much CPU/PG. Infact you could argue they should require less CPU/PG than normal plates because: Ferroscale: With the speed penalties being reduced in the armor buff, ferroscale plates have less appeal. Having them be a low CPU/PG option would be more appealing. Reactive plates: If you stack all four of a Gallente Assault low slots, it would still be worse than just a couple of plates and a couple of repairers. Having lower CPU/PG would be more appealing. However for reactive plates you could argue that it's an "all in one" package, so the CPU/PG should match normal plates. tl;dr: Ferroscale plates should require less CPU/PG than normal plates Reactive plates should cost as much CPU/PG as normal plates Zeylon Rho wrote: This is with new numbers and bonuses: A) 2 x Complex Reactive 66 hp, 1% speed penalty, 2 hp/s repair @ 36 CPU 16 PG = 132 hp, 2% speed penalty, 4 hp/s @ 72 CPU 32 PG B) 1 Enhanced Plate 117 hp, 3% speed penalty @ 20 CPU 6 PG & 1 Enhanced Armor repairer 3.45 hp/s @ 35 CPU 5 PG = 117 hp, 3% speed penalty, 3.45 hp/s 55 CPU 11 PG A.----vs.----B. 132 vs. 117 hp 2% vs. 3% speed penalty 4 vs. 3.45 hp/s repair 72 vs. 55 CPU 32 vs. 11 PG Results? Reactive plates give you 15 more hp, 1% faster move speed, and 0.15 more repair at a cost of 17 more CPU and 21 more PG. For reference the total PG of a MLT Gallente Frame is 25 PG; so, just the surplus PG needed to operate the plates is about the same as the entire PG allotment on a MLT suit. How popular would a low slot module that gives 15 hp, 0.15 repair, and subtracts 1% from move penalty be at 17 CPU 21 PG I wonder? Sort of... it gets better: SP cost: A) requires Armor Plating 5 Total: 932,760 SP B) requires Armor Plating 3 and Armor Repair Systems 3 cost 205,200 SP x 2 Total: 410,400 SP You get: 15 more hp, 1% faster move speed, and 0.15 more repair at a cost of 17 more CPU and 21 more PG AFTER you spend 522,360 MORE SP. You have to spend over twice as much SP for plates that are notably worse than these ADV modules. Edit: Here's some potential Reactive stats I was brainstorming with a few pages in. These would require both Armor Plate and Armor Repairer skills for each rank: 15/4 - 50hp, 2%, 1hp/s 30/10 - 70hp, 3%, 2hp/s 45/17 - 90hp, 4%, 3hp/s Seem more useful? I think shield modules are in need of buffing before deciding if armor modules should be nerfed. Shield tanking needs to be more attractive; basic and enhanced shield extenders are useless. Even to shield tankers, armor modules are much more useful than shield regulators. Currently shield extenders are 22 at basic (1 shot and its gone), 33 enhanced (one shot and its likely gone), and 66 at complex (good). The complex is 100% better than the advanced, the scaling is clearly wrong. Shield extenders should instead be 44 standard, 55 enhanced, and 66 complex. Shield regulators need a serious buff on all tiers, they need to be preferable to stacking plates if you are shield tanking. Currently they are 10% at basic, 20% at enhanced (huge jump), and 25% at complex (tiny jump). The scaling is clearly wrong. Shield regulators should instead be 20% basic, 30% enhanced, and 40% at complex. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

RECON BY FIRE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 396	Posted - 2014.05.16 23:26:00 - [41] - Quote First off, if youre not "competitive" with 4 complex reps on a Gallente Heavy, you need to "git gud." I don't know its viability in PC, but in pubs its more than adequate. Outside of that though, the big imbalance with armor plates is how much HP they give for such a small fitting cost and how little HP shield extenders give for such a large fitting cost. It makes no sense that armor plates are supposed to be heavily PG intensive, but I can fit my suit with more HP with armor than shields and still have waaaaaay more PG left over than I could ever hope to on a shield suit. Stuff....?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1123	Posted - 2014.05.17 00:58:00 - [42] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Here's an illustrative example of just how hugely overpowered basic plates are, compared to their minuscule fitting costs. http://i.imgur.com/SDHzvbp.png Like more please "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 783	Posted - 2014.05.17 06:08:00 - [43] - Quote A few out there balance ideas (some have been shared by others in the past): Shield extenders increase scan profile (stealth penalty). Larger frame sizes get a reduction to movement penalty (module penalty increased at same time) so light frames are slowed down more. Reduce HP bonus of plates so they can't significantly alter the total HP of any class (maybe closer to reactive/ferroscale plates). Add a high slot armor module (either move or make a variant of armor repair module) more effective+higher power requirements? [*] Increase effectiveness of non shield/armor modules to make them more popular options(or lower shield/armor modules effectiveness to get same results). Ashes to ashes, Dust to PC.
Haerr Legio DXIV 639	Posted - 2014.05.17 07:08:00 - [44] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Here's an illustrative example of just how hugely overpowered basic plates are, compared to their minuscule fitting costs. http://i.imgur.com/SDHzvbp.png QFT. 1. Plates General: The HP per PG varies to much between tiers. Speed Penalty per HP(1): Is to low, especially so on Basic & Enhanced because they take up far less PG than Complex. Speed Penalty per HP(2): I suggest that the Speed Penalty should be higher per HP on Basic and Enhanced than on Complex as this will give a reason to go with Complex Plates over lower tiered ones even though they will have a higher % penalty. 2. Repair General: The HP/s per PG varies to much between tiers. HP/s per PG: Should be kept the same between tiers, or rather HP/s modified by skill per PG. (At the very least closer to each other.) 3. Reactive General: Allow the Repair skill to enhance repair rate. Speed penalty per HP: Keep it the same as Plates. 4. Ferroscale General: Keep PG cost of each tier the same as Plates and adjust HP to match. HP per PG(1): As a trade off for not having any speed penalty it should be lower than Plates. HP per PG(2): It ought to be higher than Reactive since it only does HP and no Repair. Ways to incentivise higher tier modules; Higher HP per PG, Lower Speed Penalty per HP I want to question the balance between: 1 Repair + 1 Plate _vs_ 2 Reactives Make one choice have better HP+HP/s per fitting requirement and the other Higher HP+HP/s per module slot as a way to make both choices preferable from different standpoints. Overall balance would be served by lowering HP per slot and increasing Speed Penalty per slot. Remember that a higher percentage Speed Penalty hits quicker suits harder than slower suits. (And with stacking penalty removed from the speed penalty in 1.7 putting on more plates on a Scout suit is even more off putting with higher percentages.) Realising this however is dependant on balancing the CR and HMG as even with over the top plates they are quite simply to good and since they are to good now lowering the HP from plates without addressing them would make them even more ridiculously OP.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 234	Posted - 2014.05.17 11:09:00 - [45] - Quote You need to have a Shield Repair Gun that way shield tank will work. Code it so you can only be able to be armored or shield rep not both.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 234	Posted - 2014.05.17 11:12:00 - [46] - Quote People use armor because of the rep tool backup . There is not backup for shield tank. We need a Shield rep tool
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 570	Posted - 2014.05.17 12:01:00 - [47] - Quote Unless you're proposing an increase to the native HP of medium frames, I think any plan for nerfing plates is going to hurt logis and assaults in a significant way. Remember, you're worried about tanked scouts and bricked heavies. However, mediums rely on eHP mods to survive against those guys. If hurting logis and assaults is the only way to accomplish that goal, then I think you need to go back to the drawing board.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2361	Posted - 2014.05.17 15:46:00 - [48] - Quote One thing you could do with plates is reduce max PG by a %. As you go up in tier this penalty could be less. I'm not sure where you could make this balance out, thought. It would effectively make each piece 'cost' the delta in lost PG, but the suits that already start with a lot of PG are the ones that would lose the most, and stacking them on PRO suits would actually be counter productive. They would have the highest fitting cost on PRO suits.
RECON BY FIRE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 397	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:11:00 - [49] - Quote That is another good point I see, add rep hives and tools for shields or remove rep hives for armor. See how balance pans out. One of the main reasons armor is OP is because you can completely self sustain by using basic plates to free up fitting and then put on some proto rep hives and rep 40 to 80 (in some cases more) HP a second. There is no possible way to do this with shields. Lets not forget that the hives and tools constantly rep while shields stop repping when you get shot. Stuff....?
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2361	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:47:00 - [50] - Quote Alright, did some math and here's what my suggestion would end up with as far as speed penalties go (chart). As far as speed penalty goes, it makes it so scouts using 4 complex plates would be heavily slowed, and assaults would actually be best suited to stack plates and not be slowed too much. It would make heavy suits actually a bit faster than they are currently with plates. Logistics would be significantly slower than assaults who stack plates making assault suits some of the best combinations of fast and heavy suits out there. I also suggested a few tweaks to fitting costs. I kept all the same HP as is currently there, but tailored the 'fitting cost curves' of each module class as follows: Shield's HP/CPU cost stays constant as you increase from STD to PRO, the HP/PG drops a little as you go up. Regular plates mostly keep their curve, advance plates drop a bit of fitting cost to make them a little more attractive. Ferroscale plates are stay much less efficient than regular plates, while only slightly better than shields. Would probably be the better/best option for scouts. Reactive plates get a flattening to their HP/CPU cost line while becoming LESS efficient at HP/PG than shields.

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2361	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:17:00 - [51] - Quote *New Armor Dropsuit/Armor Attribute* Dropsuit Core Basically each dropsuit gets a 'core agility' rating that armor modules take away from, and biotic modules COULD add to. So then rather than speed penalties (speedscale in the SDE) being 95% on a complex plate, for example, each regular plate, reactive plate, and ferroscale plate gets an agility rating. (see page 1-2) Each then dropsuit gets its own 'core inertia/agility rating'. (see page 4) Scouts get a 50-150 Logistics get 150-300 Assaults get 300-450 Heavies get 450-1000 The total agility rating from your armor modules is subtracted from your agility rating, then divided by the core inertia again, to give your 'inertia factor' that affects your running and sprint speed. See page 3 to see a comparison of the before/after speeds of different suits. (page 4-5 has a table with numbers) Agility factor = (core inertia - module inertia)/(core inertia) So the higher your core inertia/agility the more you can stack plates without a penalty. You could make each dropsuit have a minimum possible inertia or a universal minimum speed penalty currently my chart assumes a minimum penalty of 15% inertia factor. Also, the agility factors of the Eve races would come in to play here too. Gallente would be the most agile, followed by minmatar, then amarr, then caldari. So example. You want to put 3x complex reactive plates on an amarr scout ak.0 that has a core inertia of 75. Complex reactive plates have an inertia of 5 times 3 reactive plates or 15 total inertia. (75-15)/75=80% agility factor. The agility factor is what reduces your base and sprint speed. So while your original ground speed was 5.25 m/s, your new speed would be 4.2 m/s with a max skill sprint speed of 6.174. You can quickly see, looking at page 4, that if you stack complex plates on scouts you will be moving at 55% base speed at best. On logistics this would get you in the 70%-80% base speed range. Even stacking ADV regular plates on scouts would be significantly detrimental. Putting 1 STD plates on a Caldari scout would probably be about as bad as 2 STD plates on a Gallente scout (about 80% base speed). -This change would help the scouts stacking armor because it would make them slower than medium suits if they did. -This change would make armor assaults faster than armor logistics because the logistics would get a lower base core inertia factor. -This change would not negatively hurt armor heavies stacking plates. -This change would make brick tanking caldari suits slower than their armor counterparts but amarr suits would possibly be semi-bricked, although their lower base fitting amount and HP would make this a non-factor.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2655	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:41:00 - [52] - Quote Basic plate has best pg/CPU economy relative to HP bonus. Ferro and reactive are too pg CPU hungry and too weak.
Spankdamonke Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:44:00 - [53] - Quote Hmm....just throwing things out at the moment, and alot of these have been mentioned already. A) As others have said, an increase in CPU / PG relative to the supplied HP would help. And / or reversing the speed penalties so that complex plates offer the most protection and least speed reduction (kept in check by the massive suit power requirements, and gives players a reason to upgrade plates beyond basic) B) In addition to the normal movement penalty, I also favor the rotation speed reduction that others have suggested (though with the option to adjust sensitivity, this may not be a good solution) C) SERIOUSLY buff shield extenders. a 44 / 66 / 88 approach might sound ridiculous...but as others have said, basic armor plates offer vastly more hp for their cost. Not to mention, if a majority of the player base wanted to then attempt to shield tank, flux grenades would again have more utility. The increase could offset by an increase in their current penalty to recharge delay. Or if so desired, a new category for these stronger extenders that also decreases shield recharge rate by a specific amount (just like energizers affect total shield strength) This would give more variety but come at a good cost. D) A multiplicative speed reduction for stacking multiple plates (if a basic plate is a 2% speed reduction, the next would be 4%, the next 8%, and so on) However, we run into the problem of mixing and matching plates.....so this would require some thought to even it out.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2361	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:47:00 - [54] - Quote Spankdamonke wrote: Hmm....just throwing things out at the moment, and alot of these have been mentioned already. A) As others have said, an increase in CPU / PG relative to the supplied HP would help. And / or reversing the speed penalties so that complex plates offer the most protection and least speed reduction (kept in check by the massive suit power requirements, and gives players a reason to upgrade plates beyond basic) B) In addition to the normal movement penalty, I also favor the rotation speed reduction that others have suggested (though with the option to adjust sensitivity, this may not be a good solution) C) SERIOUSLY buff shield extenders. a 44 / 66 / 88 approach might sound ridiculous...but as others have said, basic armor plates offer vastly more hp for their cost. Not to mention, if a majority of the player base wanted to then attempt to shield tank, flux grenades would again have more utility. The increase could offset by an increase in their current penalty to recharge delay. Or if so desired, a new category for these stronger extenders that also decreases shield recharge rate by a specific amount (just like energizers affect total shield strength) This would give more variety but come at a good cost. D) A multiplicative speed reduction for stacking multiple plates (if a basic plate is a 2% speed reduction, the next would be 4%, the next 8%, and so on) However, we run into the problem of mixing and matching plates.....so this would require some thought to even it out. looking at the sde, the plates already affect turn speed while running/sprinting but not still
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2014.05.18 08:59:00 - [55] - Quote Please donGÇÖt make the plates armour percentage. It will destroy the game. The best thing in this game is customisation. If I want to make an armour assault with the armour of a commando or even sentinel let me be. If I want to make and armoured scout to match by HP the assault let me be. This makes that game awesome. What makes us survive in the field? : Speed / strafe, HP (armour/shield), detection of enemies, non-detection of us (surprise). /remove the invisibility please/ Here is my suggestion for balancing. It is rather stupid idea so you will not miss if you donGÇÖt read it. It is also long nüè First let us assume that we have all skills at lvl 5: armour plating, shield extenders, biotics, precision, dampening. I donGÇÖt look on cpu & pg for now. http://1drv.ms/1jrbgS1 My suggestion is the plates to be basic 80hp, adv 100hp, complex 135hp Speed reduction to be according dropsuit frame: basicadvcomplex light 4% 5% 6% medium2% 3% 4% heavy1% 2% 3% Also add 1% speed reduction for all ferroscale plates for scouts only. Then we have balance. If I want to armour my scout it is ok but it will become slow as assault. If I want to armour my assault like sentinel it will become slow as heavy. Some calculations: These are the basic stats with all skills to lvl 5 Basic armorshieldmov. spd scan profilescan precision Scout G1 162 87 5.72 23.6 36 Assault G1262 150 5.25 45 45 Sentinel G1656 487 4.04 54 49.5 We see that scout is with lower hp but fast and small. Sentinel is high hp and dmg resistances but big and slow. What happens when we armour a Gallente scout to have the same armour like the assault: scout + 1 basic plate(to equalize the armour ) armorshieldmov. spd scan profile scan precision Scout G1 262 87 5.49 23.6 36 Assault G1 262 150 5.25 45 45 If we want to have the same combined hp, but to use only armour plates on the scout: scout + 1 complex plate to even the hp armorshieldmov. spd scan profile scan precision Scout G1 330 87 5.37 23.6 36 Assault G1 262 150 5.25 45 45 Combined scout HP GÇô 417 / assault combined HP 412 GÇô no significant difference. We have used one slot of the scout armour. The speed is very similar now. Still the scout has better scan profile and precision which gives him advantage in battle as he will see the assault when remaining undetected. The assault has more slots and weapon advantage. scout + 3 complex platesAssault + 1 x complex & 2 x adv armorshieldmov. spd scan profilescan precision Scout G1 668 87 4.7 23.6 36 Assault G1680 150 4.72 45 45 Here are proto suits with max armour for the scout, and needed plates for the assault to match the same armour. Here the armour difference is negligible and speed is the same. The advantage of the scout is scan precision and profile, smaller size / less hit surface, strafe speed??, more cpu/pg, more stamina and faster stamina reg. We have one more remaining low slot on assault so we will add one complex dampener. scout + 3 complex platesAssault + 1 x complex & 2 x adv & 1 x com damp armorshieldmov. spd scan profilescan precision Scout gk0 668 87 4.7 23.6 36 Assault gk0 680 150 4.72 33.75 45 Now it is even more balanced. The assault will still not see the scout but also the scout will not see the assault. If the scout wants to go to precision enhancer instead of shield extender he will be able to see the assault but will still have less HP. I think we have some acceptable balance here between an armoured scout and assault with both having differentiation advantages.
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:00:00 - [56] - Quote /SECOND PART/ :) Here is the sentinel: Assault + 4 com plates & 3 comp ext / sentinel + 3 x basic plates armorshieldmov. spd scan profilescan precision Assault gk0 937 3974.41 45 45 Sentinel gk0 956 4873.92 54 49.5 This a max HP assault with 1334 combined HP. The sentinel is balanced to have similar HP and speed with combined HP of 1443. Lower armour for the assault but higher speed, smaller frame, better profile and precision. Sentinel on the other hand has left free slots and suit resistances. If we add one dampener to the sentinel it will be invisible for the assault passive scanning. If they meet in close combat the sentinel will win if long range the assault with AR will win. To be even more balanced remove the invisibility from the cloak. The 25% dampening is more than enough. Nothing can pare with an undetectable invisible fast slayer that can kill with 1-2 shots (knives/shotgun), doesnGÇÖt matter of the armour. Coming killing and leaving. You donGÇÖt see him and you donGÇÖt hear. It is undetectable even for gallente proto scanner with gal logi bonus. Cloak is invisibility for radars not for eyes. It is enough that scouts have 2 equipment slots and can use a device that reduces their scan profile with additional 25%. This makes them undetectable for all the scanners and combined with their speed is enough. Assault and commando are supposed to be the slayers, sentinels strategic point defence / enemy vehicles control, logi and scouts support. Scouts also tactical infiltrators. AND fix the scanners I invested up to lv 5. The tables a complete mess so if you want to see it here: http://1drv.ms/1jrbgS1
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:51:00 - [57] - Quote I did similar calculations for Caldari and the result is the same. the plates need just little rebalancing to make them all equally usable. When you a 100 kg a 10 kg more will not you slow dows as much as 10 kg on 50kg preson. additional the reactive plates hp regen can be increased a little as well as the rep mods, but not a lot. in my oppinion looking at Caldari calculation the shields are OK having in mind that they regen quite well. only the basic and adv can be tuned up. basic 33hp and adv 44hp, complex 66hp.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1184	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:03:00 - [58] - Quote Absolutely fantastic feedback, we will be back with proposals in this spirit once we crunch our own numbers. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:29:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati please listen to me. I heard that there's talk about nerfing ALL ARMOR PLATES on dropsuits. This is a BAD, BAD, BAD IDEA. There was a huge effort to make 1.8 have an increased TTK (Time to Kill) and this will completely negate that effort. If you are concerned about Shields, then YES BUFF SHIELDS. Shields are very underpowered and if anything needs to be changed it is shields. Edit: If you want proof of the weight of my opinion then listen to this. I am a full proto Amarr Sentinel and right now Gallente and other Amarr Sentinels are my nemeses. Specifically Gallente. I can kill them but I have to aim every single bullet at their head. To me I think this is a perfect challenge to keep me on my toes. If you nerf armor you will make those heavies, among everything else MUCH easier to kill. In fact nerfing armor plates will make HMGs the official God mode, unbeatable weapon. Furthermore I think everything in this game is balanced except tanks VS infantry, shield tanking dropsuits, the combat rifle, the assault rifle, and the cloak VS Gal Logi. If I missed anything forgive me but as Rattati said, we probably won't get fixes for things like sniper rifle zoom and graphics rendering at a distance. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:43:00 - [60] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: First off, if youre not "competitive" with 4 complex reps on a Gallente Heavy, you need to "git gud." I don't know its viability in PC, but in pubs its more than adequate. Let me put it this way. You'd better hope you don't run into someone like me with HMG Proficiency 5. I'd tear that apart even if it was proto and I was using my basic Amarr heavy with militia gear. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++



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