DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Armor Modules

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

Sticky:[Feedback] Armor Modules

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13381	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:04:00 - [1] - Quote I see a huge problem as the scaling. A basic plate requires 1 PG and 10 CPU, and gives almost as much as a complex plate which requires 12 PG, 30 CPU, and has over twice the speed penalty. Also, I hear that the strafe penalty on plates is double what descriptions suggest it to be (an artefact of the old penalties). Is that true? Also, typing something up a little more detailed. The tanking problem isn't just limited to armour plate stacking, but also shield extender scaling. A basic shield extender gives such a trivial amount of HP it's not worth using. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13488	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:19:00 - [2] - Quote Velociraptor, I think you're overreacting slightly. Rattati isn't here suggesting that we all go on about how armour should be nerfed into the ground, how OP it is, etc, this thread is about rejigging the modules so that more armour tanking styles than just stacking basic plates become viable (like active armour repair). My own thoughts are that basic plates are horrendously out of whack. 1 PG 10 CPU for that chunk of HP means that using higher tier plates starts to get silly, especially when the speed penalty on those increases as well. The most economical way of tanking at the moment is simply to stack basic plates. That is a bad thing. I also feel that a lot of complaints about armour come from the state of shields. There are some flaws in shield design at the moment - 22 HP basic extenders, for example, sometimes make zero difference whatsoever to TTK if you fit them. That's not strictly on topic here though, I have another thread up at https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=162638&find=unread for that. Aside from the inherent superiority of stacking normal plates, the lack of use for ferroscales and reactives stems from there not being any reason to use them at all. Reactive plates are simply inferior to plate/rep combos and the only uses for them are really on specific setups where you can only afford to fit one low slot tank module. Using ferroscale plates is pointless because they're outperformed by basic plates - why have 0% penalty plates that are really expensive to fit and give only a small bit of HP when you could have a huge chunk of HP for practically no fitting cost for just a 1% penalty? Active armour tanking doesn't work because armour repairers are never going to rep fast enough to actively keep you up in a fight unless you have practically no buffer HP. In that case, you're going to die very quickly before your armour repairers can get to work saving you and even then stacking four complex ones won't get you very far at all - just 25 HP/s. That's not nearly sufficient to keep you up in an active fight. It would be far preferable to have + 300 HP or so and then have a token rep to keep you going between fights. EDIT: % HP bonuses have been thrown around for plates. I'm not a huge fan of that, but Resistance is quite right in talking about proportional weights. Rather than have the plates toned down to match the frame, why not have a mass based penalty? If you're a dainty little scout putting on a bunch of heavy plates, you're going to get weighed down a ton and lose all your speed advantage (and then some, quite possibly). Suddenly, there's a reason for ferroscale plates! Meanwhile heavies don't really feel it,. meaning that they don't get weighed down so much they can't jump over a 1 ft railing. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13488	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:26:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: 450 armor + 40hp/s would make for a very good active armor rep. And mean that shield tanking is pointless (unless that's on a heavy, which it isn't, because those have more than 450 armour). You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13488	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:31:00 - [4] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Cat Merc wrote: 450 armor + 40hp/s would make for a very good active armor rep. And mean that shield tanking is pointless (unless that's on a heavy). Come back to me when shield tankers move as slow as me. A basic plate will cost you practically no speed whatsoever. An enhanced plate will cost you a marginal bit of speed. A complex plate will cost you a slight bit of speed, and nobody uses them anyway. Armour tankers barely move slower than shield tankers. Barely. You are suggesting a vastly superior tanking form. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13488	Posted - 2014.05.18 13:44:00 - [5] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: [ A basic plate will cost you practically no speed whatsoever. An enhanced plate will cost you a marginal bit of speed. A complex plate will cost you a slight bit of speed, and nobody uses them anyway. Armour tankers barely move slower than shield tankers. Barely. You are suggesting a vastly superior tanking form. Armor tankers usually use more than one plate. That speed penalty stacks. As I said, I just threw numbers around. Yes, stupid numbers. Instead of admitting that, though, you're actually attempting to defend them. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13492	Posted - 2014.05.18 14:13:00 - [6] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I was defending the recharge more than the HP. Which still pretty much invalidates shields as at 40 HP/s there's no reason to use shields. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13492	Posted - 2014.05.18 14:24:00 - [7] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Besides busting down the health gains of plates, while also bumping up the PG requirements (as the Cat said), the usefulness of Ferroscale and Reactive.. There needs to be one. If you drop plate overall health, you have to hit Ferroscale as well. If you take a quarter (the number Cat tossed out) a Complex Plate(before skills) drops from 135 to 101ish. A Complex Ferroscale sits at 75 (before skills), meaning there is very little difference between the two (a CR sees no difference). A slight tweak to Ferro health, plus a major change to the PG costs (14 PG for Proto, more than a Proto Plate by 2 for 60 less health...) and Ferro could become quite handy. The thing about reducing ferroscale health is that you end up with ferroscale plates with less health than shield extenders. The comparison between them is then pretty much adding automatically regenerating health vs adding non-regenerating health. When they both have the same values, why would you ferroscale tank? Taking a quarter off armour HP is a huge change. It's bigger than the buff to armour that so drastically changed the meta - and before that, armour was in a laughable state. Quote: Reactives... All they do is save you a Low Slot. I can use a Proto Reactive plate and get +66 armor (with skills) and 2hp/s with a measly 1% speed penalty. Or, if I have the slots, I could put a Basic Plate and Basic Rep, get +93 armor and rep rate of 2.5hp/s. Not only do I get better stats, but, I only use 30CPU and 2 PG, compare that to the 36CPU and 16PG of the Proto Reactive. At least I have the slot for the PG Upgrade? Yes. This. But... I don't actually see why reactive plates need to exist. Regardless of the state they're in, they're going to be in one of three states - better than plate/rep combos, about equal, or worse than them. They directly compete with modules in the same slots for the same function. Their existence is unnecessary. I'd rather see them retooled as something else, like resistance plates. That gives them a useful function that doesn't directly compete with plate/rep combos and adds something new to the table. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13511	Posted - 2014.05.19 13:18:00 - [8] - Quote Rotation speed is a terrible mechanic to balance around. It just makes people turn sensitivity up or change their mouse settings. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.