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JonnyAugust Imperfects Negative-Feedback 333	Posted - 2014.05.04 15:05:00 - [1] - Quote Of the players. For the players... Or not. The audacity to consider their self-importance so great as to throw all loyal Dust fans under the bus and allow us to waste real life money on a game they knew was going to die months before even some Devs knew. Their involvement in the development of this game has been detrimental at best since the beginning as they help sowed the seeds of its demise. The cancelation of DUST PS3 development is not only CCPs failure but also CPM0s failure. Nova Knife attests that he was so mad when he heard the knews that we all heard at fanfest. So mad he did absolutely nothing to save the friends and fellow players of DUST for months. He coward in the shadows afraid to lose his position of being lap dog to CCP. It's easy for him to talk a big game now and pretend to side with all of us when in reality he is no better than the developers that threw us under the bus. I find the complete lack of character disgusting, no one had the guts to stand up and say enough is enough or resign to make a point. They chose to obey rather than represent us. I am more disappointed with the CPM than CCP because I can understand at least that CCP operates as a business for profit reasons. CPM was here to help us, the players and CCP to realize the dream that was DUST514.
Rahl Draak Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 82	Posted - 2014.05.04 15:08:00 - [2] - Quote .....playing the smallest, saddest song...on the world's smallest violin.................just for you.
Joseph Ridgeson warravens Final Resolution. 1555	Posted - 2014.05.04 15:09:00 - [3] - Quote NDA. Legally binding contract is terrifying. Sure you can say "they should have broken it because this was important!" but the world can't work that way. Lawful Neutral... The fact of Legion is not terrible. It hurts but it isn't terrible. The lack of information and zero respect that CCP have given to us, customers, is shockingly terrible.
Gaelon Thrace Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 362	Posted - 2014.05.04 15:09:00 - [4] - Quote You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14683	Posted - 2014.05.04 15:10:00 - [5] - Quote The lack of information is disturbing with this one. Twitter, Dev Trackers, IRC, pod casts, and some social circles are your best friends. Can't be arsed to do a summary though Ill let a blue explain it all. Ill put it this way 100% of your claims are generated by your own fear and not facts and rather the lack of facts that most of which are still fomulating. There are facts out there pay attention to those in the comming weeks before you decide to throw everything under the bus. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 995	Posted - 2014.05.04 15:12:00 - [6] - Quote At least the CPM told CCP they were being beyond f*cking stupid telling us on Fanfest, and warned them not to do so. I'm really curious what moron thought it was a good idea. I'm assuming that's NDA too though... xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
knight of 6 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1894	Posted - 2014.05.04 15:14:00 - [7] - Quote dude they were under a legal contract not to say anything. also they don't work for the players they act as a sounding board for ccp. Ko6 scout,
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 735	Posted - 2014.05.04 15:16:00 - [8] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: NDA. Legally binding contract is terrifying. Sure you can say "they should have broken it because this was important!" but the world can't work that way. Lawful Neutral... The fact of Legion is not terrible. It hurts but it isn't terrible. The lack of information and zero respect that CCP have given to us, customers, is shockingly terrible. Those who've never dealt with CAs/NDAs are lucky. They fckuing suck. On the plus side it makes me very attractive to be a corporate espionage target. The frenchy resigning from CPM proves they work :/ And let the Forums continue to BURN.
Flambario Steelhammer United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 15	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:04:00 - [9] - Quote Since there are CPM that will not make the move. I would like to get the names. At lease one of them should step up and tell everybody I'm quiting because the lack of development after 1.8! You can not NDA that you know nothing.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2700	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:08:00 - [10] - Quote What do you think the CPM should have done JohnnyAugust? I'm genuinely curious what you think the CPM could have done differently that they did not. '#PCMasterRace 5/2/2014 - Best day in Dust's history CCP Rouge - The Hero of Dust

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1352	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:08:00 - [11] - Quote They aren't devs, just unpaid consultants essentially. This is all on CCP. I can't imagine trying to be a CPM through this, I would like to imagine I would have resigned in protest, but its easy for me to say so from looking from the outside. That doesn't detract from the fact that this whole mess is detestable and was avoidable. Just don't be silly enough to believe the CPM could have stopped it if they wanted to. Nos Nothi for Life
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5287	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:14:00 - [12] - Quote I've dealt with NDAs before. If this was me, I would have been saying "screw NDA, tell the players or I will" as soon as they started pushing AUR sales onto us while KNOWING the game was about to see a MASSIVE change that negates many people's spending.
Mary Lilac Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:20:00 - [13] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: What do you think the CPM should have done JohnnyAugust? I'm genuinely curious what you think the CPM could have done differently that they did not. Easy, they should have all stepped down. This is the only possible course of action they could have taken because: A. It would not break the NDA and B. IT would be an unmistakable signal to the playerbase that something was wrong. Instead they did nothing, and became complicit in the theft of real life money that has been perpetrated over the last 6 months. CPM are just as much thieves in their in-action as the developers who misrepresented the future of the game to increase profits. 1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG. Be polite, they want to refund you!
KING SALASI MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 237	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:22:00 - [14] - Quote Lol CPM could have gotten around the NDA but they choose not to. They could've contacted any gaming news media and spilled the beans it's called an unnamed source lol.
Cotsy The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 101	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:26:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The lack of information is disturbing with this one. Twitter, Dev Trackers, IRC, pod casts, and some social circles are your best friends. Can't be arsed to do a summary though Ill let a blue explain it all. Ill put it this way 100% of your claims are generated by your own fear and not facts and rather the lack of facts that most of which are still fomulating. There are facts out there pay attention to those in the comming weeks before you decide to throw everything under the bus. I don't know the quote about dust 514 being a plane about to crash and its due to a bad engine, and dust is dead came from they can't change the engine of a failing plane mid flight.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3269	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:28:00 - [16] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I've dealt with NDAs before. If this was me, I would have been saying "screw NDA, tell the players or I will" as soon as they started pushing AUR sales onto us while KNOWING the game was about to see a MASSIVE change that negates many people's spending. If I had been on the CPM I would have already known that the DEVs have good intentions for us players heading towards Legion. I would have also known that Legion is hardly anything but a concept at this point, and that anything they release at Fanfest could possibly never happen. And finally I would also know that Dust 514 will still be worked on and updated for months to come because of the way I would see the dedication to Dust that the DEVs still have. However, CCP probably didn't expect a reaction like this. They revealed it in a way that was supposed to make us surprised and excited, but they worded it and explained it in a way that made many players very angry. They also did it without any explanation as to the things that us players wanted to know in the first place, and without a reassuring gesture. Miscommunication, not being prepared for all possible outcomes, and not communicating effectively led to what has happened. Let's just be glad they actually gave us some more detailed answers within a few hours rather than days or weeks.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2702	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:31:00 - [17] - Quote Mary Lilac wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: What do you think the CPM should have done JohnnyAugust? I'm genuinely curious what you think the CPM could have done differently that they did not. Easy, they should have all stepped down. This is the only possible course of action they could have taken because: A. It would not break the NDA and B. IT would be an unmistakable signal to the playerbase that something was wrong. Instead they did nothing, and became complicit in the theft of real life money that has been perpetrated over the last 6 months. CPM are just as much thieves in their in-action as the developers who misrepresented the future of the game to increase profits. I don't understand why they should step down. This is literally the best thing that CCP could have done regarding the ground combat side of new eden, as CPM at least they could help voice community concerns and make the transition smoother. Their purpose was to help facilitate the relationship between CPM and CCP Shanghai, I don't see how acting like 13 year olds and ragequitting would have done any good. That CCP Shanghai waited until Fanfest to say anything is not the fault of the CPM, they tried their best to get CCP to say something earlier. That CCP is running events for their own free to play product is just business. If you spent money on Dust only because you were hoping it would become Legion is no fault of anyone but yourself. You buy products in a free to play game because of it what it is now not what it might become in 3-4 years. Projecting your own hurt feelings onto the CPM is unproductive and childish. '#PCMasterRace 5/2/2014 - Best day in Dust's history CCP Rouge - The Hero of Dust
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 301	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:32:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 100% of your claims are generated by your own fear and not facts and rather the lack of facts that most of which are still fomulating. There are facts out there pay attention to those in the comming weeks before you decide to throw everything under the bus. That's exactly the problem - we weren't provided any facts, just a lot of maybe's, and that's after the outrage started. The facts should be there from day 1, waiting "a few weeks" (which in CCP speak means at least two months) is irresponsible. That's like saying "you will be fired, but we still don't know when, maybe tomorrow, maybe next month, but we already have the papers we only need to fill in the date" - would you stay at such a workplace or GTFO from there?
Ducttape Tinker Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 111	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:34:00 - [19] - Quote Hell how i want see CCP building in fire, like really. "Just return back to see how this dust falling in to rust."
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5150	Posted - 2014.05.04 17:37:00 - [20] - Quote Mary Lilac wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: What do you think the CPM should have done JohnnyAugust? I'm genuinely curious what you think the CPM could have done differently that they did not. Easy, they should have all stepped down. This is the only possible course of action they could have taken because: A. It would not break the NDA and B. IT would be an unmistakable signal to the playerbase that something was wrong. Instead they did nothing, and became complicit in the theft of real life money that has been perpetrated over the last 6 months. CPM are just as much thieves in their in-action as the developers who misrepresented the future of the game to increase profits. grinds the palms of his hands into this face yet again Can you all stop? Seriously? Are there any adults on these forums? I was under the impression that teenagers were in the minority here. Yes, okay, the reveal of Legion was about as bad a ****-up as BP's public relations after the Gulf oil spill, and I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say that. There is no conspiracy. There is no evil plot. It's time to stop the rumormongering and get back to reality. I would be less inclined to respect CPM0 if they all just left because they didn't like CCP's plan for the reveal. I'm glad they stayed where they were and kept trying to convince CCP to change their minds. Bailing out is a cheap move. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5289	Posted - 2014.05.04 20:23:00 - [21] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I've dealt with NDAs before. If this was me, I would have been saying "screw NDA, tell the players or I will" as soon as they started pushing AUR sales onto us while KNOWING the game was about to see a MASSIVE change that negates many people's spending. If I had been on the CPM I would have already known that the DEVs have good intentions for us players heading towards Legion. If you had been on CPM, you would also already have known that pushing Aurum sales while DUST is being abandoned was a horrible decision. I'm not saying they were wrong because they didn't INSTANTLY tell us about this the moment they heard Legion was being worked on. I'm saying they were wrong because THEY KNEW CCP WERE SCREWING CUSTOMERS. Up until the announcement, we were ALL being led to believe that DUST was going to continue on its 10 year plan and was in the process of moving to PS4. NOT moving to PC, which many players DON'T have up to date for gaming, but PS4, which a fair number of DUST players have bought, some specifically because we were looking forward to the next-gen version ON THE CONSOLE WE HAD BEEN TOLD IT WAS COMING TO. Letting our characters continue on a new game is small comfort when we've already invested time and money into the wrong platform UNDER THE ADVICE OF CCP, and getting upset with people who SHOULD have warned us earlier is perfectly understandable. When they not only knew in advance, AND knew about the sales when they were happening, it was offensive and wrong for them not to leak that information. Quote: I would have also known that Legion is hardly anything but a concept at this point, and that anything they release at Fanfest could possibly never happen. And this makes it even more baffling that they've transferred THE MAJORITY OF DUST'S DEV TEAM TO THE PROJECT instead of keeping the game running properly with competent support. Quote: And finally I would also know that Dust 514 will still be worked on and updated for months to come because of the way I would see the dedication to Dust that the DEVs still have. Most of which "updates" and "work" will be minor bug fixes and cleaning up the messes that have been months overdue for such treatment, and a large part of the delays is probably THE FACT THAT MOST OF THE TEAM ISN'T WORKING ON THE GAME ANY MORE. Quote: However, CCP probably didn't expect a reaction like this. They revealed it in a way that was supposed to make us surprised and excited, but they worded it and explained it in a way that made many players very angry. They also did it without any explanation as to the things that us players wanted to know in the first place, and without a reassuring gesture. Miscommunication, not being prepared for all possible outcomes, and not communicating effectively led to what has happened. Let's just be glad they actually gave us some more detailed answers within a few hours rather than days or weeks. They released it in the most incompetent way they possibly could have. They gouged paying customers in a manner that can only be seen as deliberate if you're willing to assume they have any competence as a business. I mean, I suppose there is a plausible-ish argument that every single staff member at CCP is completely insane. I seriously doubt it, even with this and Incarna to support the theory.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5163	Posted - 2014.05.04 20:26:00 - [22] - Quote Dust is not being abandoned. As far as the announcement, not a single person on any side of the "discussion" will argue that that was the worst possible ****-up they could have made in announcing the project. The complete lack of other information for several hours afterward was even worse, as it just poured more fuel on the rage. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Kelestia Colvolian DUST'S Rouge Wedding 94	Posted - 2014.05.04 20:48:00 - [23] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: grinds the palms of his hands into this face yet again Can you all stop? Seriously? Are there any adults on these forums? I was under the impression that teenagers were in the minority here. Yes, okay, the reveal of Legion was about as bad a **-up as BP's public relations after the Gulf oil spill, and I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say that. There is no conspiracy. There is no evil plot. It's time to stop the rumormongering and get back to reality. I would be less inclined to respect CPM0 if they all just left because they didn't like CCP's plan for the reveal. I'm glad they stayed where they were and kept trying to convince CCP to change their minds. Bailing out is a cheap move. This is some of the biggest bollocks I've read on the forums this weekend. There was conspiracy, there was an evil plot. That is the whole f* point, for f's sake! Read Ripard Teg's blog post: http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/fanfest-day-two-red-wedding.html Ripard was on the CSM, the EVE version of the CPM and he makes it plain that everyone at CCP knew for "months and months" that DUST was going to be abandoned. We were kept in the dark the whole time so that CCP could continue to make money from us. There's your f** evil plot right there. I wouldn't expect the CPM to break their NDAs but they should have resigned en masse when it became clear that CCP was intent on this path of fraud. That would have been the sign to us that there was something rotten in the state of Iceland. But the CPM did nothing. They just sat there. And even now, that class-A prick, Iron Wolf Sabre, continues to mock us and take the . CCP and the CPM were both well out of order during this entire process. And until people realise and hold them 100% accountable for their f* ups and outright frauds, we're all going to sleepwalk into exactly the same bollocks with Legion.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14691	Posted - 2014.05.04 22:16:00 - [24] - Quote I would like to add that in retrospec resigning back then as a whole would have probably been the most shelfish thing the cpm could have done. Took a bit of convincing internally to keep what we could onboard. Caz was an unfourtunate loss I would have loved to continued to work with him on the transition. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 177	Posted - 2014.05.04 22:18:00 - [25] - Quote At the very least, if nothing else, resigning would have shown the community that you had some integrity.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14692	Posted - 2014.05.04 22:21:00 - [26] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: At the very least, if nothing else, resigning would have shown the community that you had some integrity. its debatable. Integredity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. In analogy the cpm is holding on the rope between the community and a bottomless pit and I can never forgive myself if I let go of that rope of my own voilation. As ex military I have seen far too many folks ways of life ending because the lack of integredity; sometimes a job, sometimes a limb, somtimes a life all because they or somone else did not do that one extra step; not standing that post; and not seeing something through to completion. Skipping steps; quitting post, and abandoning supervision is simply not my style. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Guilbert 515 United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 114	Posted - 2014.05.04 22:29:00 - [27] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: At the very least, if nothing else, resigning would have shown the community that you had some integrity. its debatable. Integredity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. In analogy the cpm is holding on the rope between the community and a bottomless pit and I can never forgive myself if I let go of that rope of my own voilation. As ex military I have seen far too many folks ways of life ending because the lack of integredity; sometimes a job, sometimes a limb, somtimes a life all because they or somone else did not do that one extra step; not standing that post; and not seeing something through to completion. Skipping steps; quitting post, and abandoning supervision is simply not my style. Sorry to say, you were never holding our rope, the only rope you were holding was your own. How can i say that? Look around! Theres noone left, your the only one clinging to that rope! Open your eyes and look at the corpses on the ground, those people left behind, the entire console community. "Please fix drop uplink spam"
Spike Slania Horizons' Edge 73	Posted - 2014.05.04 22:33:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: At the very least, if nothing else, resigning would have shown the community that you had some integrity. its debatable. Integredity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. In analogy the cpm is holding on the rope between the community and a bottomless pit and I can never forgive myself if I let go of that rope of my own voilation. As ex military I have seen far too many folks ways of life ending because the lack of integredity; sometimes a job, sometimes a limb, somtimes a life all because they or somone else did not do that one extra step; not standing that post; and not seeing something through to completion. Skipping steps; quitting post, and abandoning supervision is simply not my style. You know, I might not been active enough on the forums to know the whole deal with the cpm0, I know pretty much no one on the forums likes Iron Wolf Saber, but I'm here seeing you active on the forums, but personally I never actually see you or anyone else from the cpm in public games. I just find that weird personally, the people representing us I don't even see playing, granted I never ran into any CCP ether.
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 182	Posted - 2014.05.04 22:34:00 - [29] - Quote Bullshit. Integrity is the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles. CPM was supposed to represent the community. You guys knew this course was wrong and yet you all rolled over for CCP and allowed it to happen, and did nothing to warn us. A lie of ommission is still a lie. Your complacency in this matter makes you all just as guilty as CCP. Even a corrupt politician woukd have the decency to resign in the face of such a public scandal.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 746	Posted - 2014.05.04 22:36:00 - [30] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: Bullshit. Integrity is the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles. CPM was supposed to represent the community. You guys knew this course was wrong and yet you all rolled over for CCP and allowed it to happen, and did nothing to warn us. A lie of ommission is still a lie. Your complacency in this matter makes you all just as guilty as CCP. Even a corrupt politician woukd have the decency to resign in the face of such a public scandal. Like i said somewhere earlier, Caz has more of my respect for his actions than IWS will EVER get back for his. And let the Forums continue to BURN.

Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1757	Posted - 2014.05.04 22:49:00 - [31] - Quote Whatever. You're just clumping the CPM together because you're pissed at CCP. I wouldn't have been pissed at the CPM for stepping down the same way I'm not pissed at them for staying. Stop with the bullshit and act reasonable instead of like an idiot with a keyboard. Even in the end, the community is still ****... "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5292	Posted - 2014.05.04 22:58:00 - [32] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: At the very least, if nothing else, resigning would have shown the community that you had some integrity. its debatable. Integredity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. In analogy the cpm is holding on the rope between the community and a bottomless pit and I can never forgive myself if I let go of that rope of my own voilation. As ex military I have seen far too many folks ways of life ending because the lack of integredity; sometimes a job, sometimes a limb, somtimes a life all because they or somone else did not do that one extra step; not standing that post; and not seeing something through to completion. Skipping steps; quitting post, and abandoning supervision is simply not my style. "Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking." (corrected spelling) When we didn't know about the MASSIVE change in direction that Legion is going to be, and you did, we "weren't looking" at what you were doing. When CCP knowingly encouraged players to help fund the vision we had previously been told about WHILE KNOWING IT WAS NO LONGER PART OF THE PLAN, we "weren't looking" for you to step forward with your information. We, the people you were supposed to be representing, NEEDED YOU TO "DO THE RIGHT THING" AND TELL US WE WERE BEING DECEIVED. You did NOTHING. By your own definition, you DID NOT act with integrity in this case. Clear, unambiguous statement: "If you don't either cancel/reverse the sale or go public with Legion IMMEDIATELY, I'm breaking NDA" Follow through if change doesn't happen. CPM failed us. It's that simple.
Cinnamon267 190	Posted - 2014.05.04 23:01:00 - [33] - Quote JonnyAugust wrote: The cancelation of DUST PS3 development is not only CCPs failure but also CPM0s failure. Nova Knife attests that he was so mad when he heard the knews that we all heard at fanfest. So mad he did absolutely nothing to save the friends and fellow players of DUST for months. He coward in the shadows afraid to lose his position of being lap dog to CCP. You may want to familiarise yourself with what an NDA is. And the fact that this stagnant and deeply mediocre shooter is not worth being sued and/or possibly going to jail over. Depends on what was in the NDA.
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization 2518	Posted - 2014.05.04 23:03:00 - [34] - Quote And I don't even see the CPM1 elections yet, wtf. Crazy space 1 for CPM1 Closed beta vet "Why vote for me? Why not?"
Asha Starwind 883	Posted - 2014.05.04 23:03:00 - [35] - Quote Mary Lilac wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: What do you think the CPM should have done JohnnyAugust? I'm genuinely curious what you think the CPM could have done differently that they did not. Easy, they should have all stepped down. This is the only possible course of action they could have taken because: A. It would not break the NDA and B. IT would be an unmistakable signal to the playerbase that something was wrong. Instead they did nothing, and became complicit in the theft of real life money that has been perpetrated over the last 6 months. CPM are just as much thieves in their in-action as the developers who misrepresented the future of the game to increase profits. This. QFT. [center][/center]
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1758	Posted - 2014.05.04 23:10:00 - [36] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: At the very least, if nothing else, resigning would have shown the community that you had some integrity. its debatable. Integredity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. In analogy the cpm is holding on the rope between the community and a bottomless pit and I can never forgive myself if I let go of that rope of my own voilation. As ex military I have seen far too many folks ways of life ending because the lack of integredity; sometimes a job, sometimes a limb, somtimes a life all because they or somone else did not do that one extra step; not standing that post; and not seeing something through to completion. Skipping steps; quitting post, and abandoning supervision is simply not my style. "Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking." (corrected spelling) When we didn't know about the MASSIVE change in direction that Legion is going to be, and you did, we "weren't looking" at what you were doing. When CCP knowingly encouraged players to help fund the vision we had previously been told about WHILE KNOWING IT WAS NO LONGER PART OF THE PLAN, we "weren't looking" for you to step forward with your information. We, the people you were supposed to be representing, NEEDED YOU TO "DO THE RIGHT THING" AND TELL US WE WERE BEING DECEIVED. You did NOTHING. By your own definition, you DID NOT act with integrity in this case. Clear, unambiguous statement: "If you don't either cancel/reverse the sale or go public with Legion IMMEDIATELY, I'm breaking NDA" Follow through if change doesn't happen. CPM failed us. It's that simple. So. You would break legal contract over that? I'm sorry but that's not legit. People aren't dying. The government isn't issuing some conspiracy. There's no schools burning. They had other ways to try to get them to listen. They could've just resigned like someone else said. If it was as simple as the NDA that they gave us back in closed beta, then sure, but I'm more than sure there's some actual heavy penalties here. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Gemini Cuspid Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2014.05.04 23:23:00 - [37] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Mary Lilac wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: What do you think the CPM should have done JohnnyAugust? I'm genuinely curious what you think the CPM could have done differently that they did not. Easy, they should have all stepped down. This is the only possible course of action they could have taken because: A. It would not break the NDA and B. IT would be an unmistakable signal to the playerbase that something was wrong. Instead they did nothing, and became complicit in the theft of real life money that has been perpetrated over the last 6 months. CPM are just as much thieves in their in-action as the developers who misrepresented the future of the game to increase profits. grinds the palms of his hands into this face yet again Can you all stop? Seriously? Are there any adults on these forums? I was under the impression that teenagers were in the minority here. Yes, okay, the reveal of Legion was about as bad a **-up as BP's public relations after the Gulf oil spill, and I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say that. There is no conspiracy. There is no evil plot. It's time to stop the rumormongering and get back to reality. I would be less inclined to respect CPM0 if they all just left because they didn't like CCP's plan for the reveal. I'm glad they stayed where they were and kept trying to convince CCP to change their minds. Bailing out is a cheap move. Have to agree. The thing is someone makes the decision above them and CCP has them only as a sounding board that seems more insignificant. You can change the engine but you can't change the reputation that'll follow as a result. Other game companies have owned up to building a bad game and wanting to "set it right". I've resounded before how Square Enix did just that and they had an even worse game on their hands to rebuild. The CPM's may have been prevented from saying anything and, at the end of the day, it's still real people and while it's not like the ferry boat scene in the Dark Knight movie, it's still a bit of pressure to wear. The problem has and will lay with CCP; from ** poor public relations (the person who manages this should just be fired basically) to how they've managed to divide gamers in a game that really isn't holding it's own as anything special is almost like how HP said they won't make computers anymore; you have blunders and then you have "WTF". The FPS market is tough and with Dust still trying to carve it's own identity into respectability, it's really hard to see how they can expect Legion to be a blockbuster. I could be wrong but if you have a bad coach and bad players, you don't have much hope for them and that's what CCP is giving us. I'm just astounded they are finding ways to shoot their foot more than once. Yea Legion is in alpha but they managed to do some damage. How many epic games were announced right when BETA was launched? They never had to announce Legion in all honesty. But they did and it's gonna cost them. Strategically it would've been easier to hold off with Legion until they had something more. With WoD cancelled and Dust still around, it's not a very smart move unless they're desperate.
Nstomper Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 545	Posted - 2014.05.04 23:24:00 - [38] - Quote i feel this thread is going to get locked like the other ones
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5299	Posted - 2014.05.04 23:25:00 - [39] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: So. You would break legal contract over that? I'm sorry but that's not legit. People aren't dying. The government isn't issuing some conspiracy. There's no schools burning. They had other ways to try to get them to listen. They could've just resigned like someone else said. If it was as simple as the NDA that they gave us back in closed beta, then sure, but I'm more than sure there's some actual heavy penalties here. I'd break NDA over someone directly and willfully ripping people off when I'm meant to be representing those people, yes. And I'd have solid legal grounds to argue against any penalties they tried to enforce too. The recent Aurum sales were using false advertising because they were still promoting the game as having new content coming to PS3, and they were still maintaining the promises made at E3 for DUST to be coming to PS4 through lies of omission. They told us what was going to happen, went back on their plans and started work on something different, and actively avoided telling us so they could gouge people for more money. The fact that Sony have been refunding people for purchases made in those sales supports this argument as well. That fact makes any enforcement of the NDA on those intentional lies of omission illegal. You can't enforce a contract which requires a person to break other laws to satisfy its conditions. The contract is null and void at that point, unless it includes a clause that maintains the contract EXCEPT THE PART WHICH WOULD BE ILLEGAL. So even if they included such a clause, the NDA would only apply to things which aren't required in order to reveal that CCP were trying to gouge us for money. So yes, I would have absolutely no reservations in "breaking" a no-longer-legally-binding contract. None at all.
SoTasLost Property Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 216	Posted - 2014.05.04 23:26:00 - [40] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: At the very least, if nothing else, resigning would have shown the community that you had some integrity. its debatable. Integredity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. In analogy the cpm is holding on the rope between the community and a bottomless pit and I can never forgive myself if I let go of that rope of my own voilation. As ex military I have seen far too many folks ways of life ending because the lack of integredity; sometimes a job, sometimes a limb, somtimes a life all because they or somone else did not do that one extra step; not standing that post; and not seeing something through to completion. Skipping steps; quitting post, and abandoning supervision is simply not my style. "Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking." (corrected spelling) When we didn't know about the MASSIVE change in direction that Legion is going to be, and you did, we "weren't looking" at what you were doing. When CCP knowingly encouraged players to help fund the vision we had previously been told about WHILE KNOWING IT WAS NO LONGER PART OF THE PLAN, we "weren't looking" for you to step forward with your information. We, the people you were supposed to be representing, NEEDED YOU TO "DO THE RIGHT THING" AND TELL US WE WERE BEING DECEIVED. You did NOTHING. By your own definition, you DID NOT act with integrity in this case. Clear, unambiguous statement: "If you don't either cancel/reverse the sale or go public with Legion IMMEDIATELY, I'm breaking NDA" Follow through if change doesn't happen. CPM failed us. It's that simple. So. You would break legal contract over that? I'm sorry but that's not legit. People aren't dying. The government isn't issuing some conspiracy. There's no schools burning. They had other ways to try to get them to listen. They could've just resigned like someone else said. If it was as simple as the NDA that they gave us back in closed beta, then sure, but I'm more than sure there's some actual heavy penalties here. Are you dumb? Breaking NDA isn't the end of the world - it's a player to gaming company agreement. He's not going to federal prison, he'll be removed from a ***** game for standing up to a piece of ** company.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14695	Posted - 2014.05.04 23:57:00 - [41] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: So. You would break legal contract over that? I'm sorry but that's not legit. People aren't dying. The government isn't issuing some conspiracy. There's no schools burning. They had other ways to try to get them to listen. They could've just resigned like someone else said. If it was as simple as the NDA that they gave us back in closed beta, then sure, but I'm more than sure there's some actual heavy penalties here. I'd break NDA over someone directly and willfully ripping people off when I'm meant to be representing those people, yes. And I'd have solid legal grounds to argue against any penalties they tried to enforce too. The recent Aurum sales were using false advertising because they were still promoting the game as having new content coming to PS3, and they were still maintaining the promises made at E3 for DUST to be coming to PS4 through lies of omission. They told us what was going to happen, went back on their plans and started work on something different, and actively avoided telling us so they could gouge people for more money. The fact that Sony have been refunding people for purchases made in those sales supports this argument as well. That fact makes any enforcement of the NDA on those intentional lies of omission illegal. You can't enforce a contract which requires a person to break other laws to satisfy its conditions. The contract is null and void at that point, unless it includes a clause that maintains the contract EXCEPT THE PART WHICH WOULD BE ILLEGAL. So even if they included such a clause, the NDA would only apply to things which aren't required in order to reveal that CCP were trying to gouge us for money. So yes, I would have absolutely no reservations in "breaking" a no-longer-legally-binding contract. None at all. NDA does not cover a companies responsibilities. Just yours. So lets rewind and play this out. You hear from CCP about PC version; you spill the beans on the forums and quit (or you get blackslited; order doesnt matter most likely your post would have been instantly sanitized) Chances are you're going to be positing in a highly similar manner as you are today; in this rather enraged state of being betrayed. Community Rages. CCP comes out with more offical and more up to date details and makes you look stupid as part of thier damage control and they would do it. And at that point watch how quickly the community turns on you Watch the developers abandon the entire community at all levels as you broke thier trsut And after you destroyed the cpm; any future elections; councils; or isd programs; and the game in one feel swoop as likely any future game cannot seem to surivive well without developers trusting the playerbase. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1642	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:02:00 - [42] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The lack of information is disturbing with this one. Twitter, Dev Trackers, IRC, pod casts, and some social circles are your best friends. Can't be arsed to do a summary though Ill let a blue explain it all. Ill put it this way 100% of your claims are generated by your own fear and not facts and rather the lack of facts that most of which are still fomulating. There are facts out there pay attention to those in the comming weeks before you decide to throw everything under the bus. Translation: plenty of SUCKERS...erm customers willing to be SCAMMED...er given the option of a CCP product for a few months....er ten year plan while they are laser focused on milking Legion...er showing the new CCP scam...er product. With all due respect but F U C K that Legion noise. Continues playing Infamous SS and soon Destiny and PS2. F U C K Legion. Planetside 2 , Destiny, Watchdogs, Division, Witcher, Order on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1758	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:12:00 - [43] - Quote SoTasLost Property wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: At the very least, if nothing else, resigning would have shown the community that you had some integrity. its debatable. Integredity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. In analogy the cpm is holding on the rope between the community and a bottomless pit and I can never forgive myself if I let go of that rope of my own voilation. As ex military I have seen far too many folks ways of life ending because the lack of integredity; sometimes a job, sometimes a limb, somtimes a life all because they or somone else did not do that one extra step; not standing that post; and not seeing something through to completion. Skipping steps; quitting post, and abandoning supervision is simply not my style. "Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is looking." (corrected spelling) When we didn't know about the MASSIVE change in direction that Legion is going to be, and you did, we "weren't looking" at what you were doing. When CCP knowingly encouraged players to help fund the vision we had previously been told about WHILE KNOWING IT WAS NO LONGER PART OF THE PLAN, we "weren't looking" for you to step forward with your information. We, the people you were supposed to be representing, NEEDED YOU TO "DO THE RIGHT THING" AND TELL US WE WERE BEING DECEIVED. You did NOTHING. By your own definition, you DID NOT act with integrity in this case. Clear, unambiguous statement: "If you don't either cancel/reverse the sale or go public with Legion IMMEDIATELY, I'm breaking NDA" Follow through if change doesn't happen. CPM failed us. It's that simple. So. You would break legal contract over that? I'm sorry but that's not legit. People aren't dying. The government isn't issuing some conspiracy. There's no schools burning. They had other ways to try to get them to listen. They could've just resigned like someone else said. If it was as simple as the NDA that they gave us back in closed beta, then sure, but I'm more than sure there's some actual heavy penalties here. Are you dumb? Breaking NDA isn't the end of the world - it's a player to gaming company agreement. He's not going to federal prison, he'll be removed from a ***** game for standing up to a piece of company. It's a *** contract between them. It most likely has legal to it. Stop being dumb. A simple ban from the game means jack ** and isn't enough to hold people from saying or showing anything, evidence being all of the bans at the closed beta. A lot of the CPM care, but there's some of them that probably wouldn't give a damn about a lifetime ban. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5306	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:13:00 - [44] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: NDA does not cover a companies responsibilities. Just yours. It also covers what rights they have in response to your violation of the NDA. There are things which they don't have the right to do as a matter of routine, and which you could reasonably object to in normal circumstances, which they could do in response to your actions. And that doesn't negate any of what I said anyway. Quote: You hear from CCP about PC version; you spill the beans on the forums and quit (or you get blackslited; order doesnt matter most likely your post would have been instantly sanitized) You spill the beans in direct messages, either through the in-game messaging system or PSN itself to circumvent CCP's control, to a few people you know in the community AS WELL AS posting the news on the forums. Just making a post that's going to vanish near-instantly isn't enough. You know that wouldn't work already. Quote: Chances are you're going to be positing in a highly similar manner as you are today; in this rather enraged state of being betrayed. Community Rages. That's not what I'd expect. It's exactly what I expected once the current situation broke, but if, BEFORE the sales, or THE MOMENT THE NEWS OF THE SALES WAS BROKEN, we were told "the plan is to move to PC, keep that in mind when spending your money"... I'm not seeing rage over that. The LACK of that information BEFORE AND DURING the sales is the main reason people are raging. Quote: CCP comes out with more offical and more up to date details and makes you look stupid as part of thier damage control and they would do it. And at that point watch how quickly the community turns on you If you spilled that they're working on a PC build in preference to PS4, unless they change plans, they can't make you "look stupid" for telling us exactly that, and if they DO change their plans, well, you should remember something about "integrity" and "doing the right thing" here... Quote: Watch the developers abandon the entire community at all levels as you broke thier trsut And after you destroyed the cpm; any future elections; councils; or isd programs; and the game in one feel swoop as likely any future game cannot seem to surivive well without developers trusting the playerbase. The developers need to trust the playerbase, true. But the players need to be able to trust the developers too. And with this move, CCP have proven that we CAN'T trust them to act morally. And you as a member of the CPM
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1643	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:14:00 - [45] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: So. You would break legal contract over that? I'm sorry but that's not legit. People aren't dying. The government isn't issuing some conspiracy. There's no schools burning. They had other ways to try to get them to listen. They could've just resigned like someone else said. If it was as simple as the NDA that they gave us back in closed beta, then sure, but I'm more than sure there's some actual heavy penalties here. I'd break NDA over someone directly and willfully ripping people off when I'm meant to be representing those people, yes. And I'd have solid legal grounds to argue against any penalties they tried to enforce too. The recent Aurum sales were using false advertising because they were still promoting the game as having new content coming to PS3, and they were still maintaining the promises made at E3 for DUST to be coming to PS4 through lies of omission. They told us what was going to happen, went back on their plans and started work on something different, and actively avoided telling us so they could gouge people for more money. The fact that Sony have been refunding people for purchases made in those sales supports this argument as well. That fact makes any enforcement of the NDA on those intentional lies of omission illegal. You can't enforce a contract which requires a person to break other laws to satisfy its conditions. The contract is null and void at that point, unless it includes a clause that maintains the contract EXCEPT THE PART WHICH WOULD BE ILLEGAL. So even if they included such a clause, the NDA would only apply to things which aren't required in order to reveal that CCP were trying to gouge us for money. So yes, I would have absolutely no reservations in "breaking" a no-longer-legally-binding contract. None at all. NDA does not cover a companies responsibilities. Just yours. So lets rewind and play this out. You hear from CCP about PC version; you spill the beans on the forums and quit (or you get blackslited; order doesnt matter most likely your post would have been instantly sanitized) Chances are you're going to be positing in a highly similar manner as you are today; in this rather enraged state of being betrayed. Community Rages. CCP comes out with more offical and more up to date details and makes you look stupid as part of thier damage control and they would do it. And at that point watch how quickly the community turns on you Watch the developers abandon the entire community at all levels as you broke thier trsut And after you destroyed the cpm; any future elections; councils; or isd programs; and the game in one feel swoop as likely any future game cannot seem to surivive well without developers trusting the playerbase. ZERO credibility. Too hard to get a [email protected] account? So it was too hard to create a free website? Too hard to post a piece on that free website pointing out that since Commander Wang was gone did this then mean that Dust 514 was DEAD? Foreward that website to Kotaku, Joystick, Gamasutra, Games Biz, Gamespot, et all and let them ask these questions to CCP? ZERO credibility. F U C K Legion. Planetside 2 , Destiny, Watchdogs, Division, Witcher, Order on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1758	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:15:00 - [46] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Roy Ventus wrote: So. You would break legal contract over that? I'm sorry but that's not legit. People aren't dying. The government isn't issuing some conspiracy. There's no schools burning. They had other ways to try to get them to listen. They could've just resigned like someone else said. If it was as simple as the NDA that they gave us back in closed beta, then sure, but I'm more than sure there's some actual heavy penalties here. I'd break NDA over someone directly and willfully ripping people off when I'm meant to be representing those people, yes. And I'd have solid legal grounds to argue against any penalties they tried to enforce too. The recent Aurum sales were using false advertising because they were still promoting the game as having new content coming to PS3, and they were still maintaining the promises made at E3 for DUST to be coming to PS4 through lies of omission. They told us what was going to happen, went back on their plans and started work on something different, and actively avoided telling us so they could gouge people for more money. The fact that Sony have been refunding people for purchases made in those sales supports this argument as well. That fact makes any enforcement of the NDA on those intentional lies of omission illegal. You can't enforce a contract which requires a person to break other laws to satisfy its conditions. The contract is null and void at that point, unless it includes a clause that maintains the contract EXCEPT THE PART WHICH WOULD BE ILLEGAL. So even if they included such a clause, the NDA would only apply to things which aren't required in order to reveal that CCP were trying to gouge us for money. So yes, I would have absolutely no reservations in "breaking" a no-longer-legally-binding contract. None at all. Would you be able to actually argue that in court? I'm actually in belief of what you say but I HIGHLY doubt that a team of lawyers wouldn't be able to get them out of it and put the blame on you. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 4281	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:16:00 - [47] - Quote CPM did nothing of the kind. Seriously, what power does the CPM has? CCP makes the final call. They can suggest ideas, public opinion and what's best all they want to. If CCP wants to do something, they will do it. To even think that is nonsensical. Betrayed? Ha! Betrayed. Yea okay. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5306	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:19:00 - [48] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Would you be able to actually argue that in court? I'm actually in belief of what you say but I HIGHLY doubt that a team of lawyers wouldn't be able to get them out of it and put the blame on you. There's a LOT of legal precedent for contracts, including NDAs to be voided when the actions required were illegal. There's also plenty of legal precedent for lies of omission to qualify as false advertising when something has been publicly announced as true then rescinded without a follow-up announcement.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Dirt Nap Squad. 1691	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:20:00 - [49] - Quote JonnyAugust wrote: Of the players. For the players... Or not. The audacity to consider their self-importance so great as to throw all loyal Dust fans under the bus and allow us to waste real life money on a game they knew was going to die months before even some Devs knew. Their involvement in the development of this game has been detrimental at best since the beginning as they help sowed the seeds of its demise. The cancelation of DUST PS3 development is not only CCPs failure but also CPM0s failure. Nova Knife attests that he was so mad when he heard the knews that we all heard at fanfest. So mad he did absolutely nothing to save the friends and fellow players of DUST for months. He coward in the shadows afraid to lose his position of being lap dog to CCP. It's easy for him to talk a big game now and pretend to side with all of us when in reality he is no better than the developers that threw us under the bus. I find the complete lack of character disgusting, no one had the guts to stand up and say enough is enough or resign to make a point. They chose to obey rather than represent us. I am more disappointed with the CPM than CCP because I can understand at least that CCP operates as a business for profit reasons. CPM was here to help us, the players and CCP to realize the dream that was DUST514. http://www.twitch.tv/jenza514/b/525174899 according to the cpm they've been doing a GREAT job. eatsbabies cienfuegos steward of the renegade alliance.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1644	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:25:00 - [50] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: CPM did nothing of the kind. Seriously, what power does the CPM has? CCP makes the final call. They can suggest ideas, public opinion and what's best all they want to. If CCP wants to do something, they will do it. To even think that is nonsensical. Betrayed? Ha! Betrayed. Yea okay. All I had was an offhand mention of the grass turning brown and drying up. But the CPM0 knew! they KNEW!! And remained silent. Those who know about a crime and remain silent are the same scum as those who did the crime. There was no excuse to remain silent since in todays world of deletable emails, free websites and inquisitive reporters all that was needed was a simple speculative post on a free website to get news hungry reporters after CCP demanding details. F U C K Legion. Planetside 2 , Destiny, Watchdogs, Division, Witcher, Order on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14699	Posted - 2014.05.05 00:43:00 - [51] - Quote You also have to realize I cannot go around breaking NDA contracts; that would lead to my own loss of my own top secret clearance. FBI takes that **** seriously. Also if the NDA was that insignificant why didnt Caz spill the beans? he resigned and yet didn't say anything. I dont think that makes him hero material either. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 578	Posted - 2014.05.05 01:09:00 - [52] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: NDA. Legally binding contract is terrifying. Sure you can say "they should have broken it because this was important!" but the world can't work that way. Lawful Neutral... The fact of Legion is not terrible. It hurts but it isn't terrible. The lack of information and zero respect that CCP have given to us, customers, is shockingly terrible. Those who've never dealt with CAs/NDAs are lucky. They fckuing suck. On the plus side it makes me very attractive to be a corporate espionage target. The frenchy resigning from CPM proves they work :/ more like resigning after his trip to iceland. (could be wrong here) but meh
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 130	Posted - 2014.05.05 01:15:00 - [53] - Quote Whether I care about IWS's FBI claim or not, he's right in that breaching even a 'trivial' NDA will have consequences outside of the domain it existed in. I ain't giving roles involving confidentiality to anyone who was contractually bound to one thing and did another.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5317	Posted - 2014.05.05 01:24:00 - [54] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: You also have to realize I cannot go around breaking NDA contracts; that would lead to my own loss of my own top secret clearance. FBI takes that ** seriously. With solid legal grounds for an argument that the NDA was invalidated by what they were expecting you to keep secret... Quote:** Also if the NDA was that insignificant why didnt Caz spill the beans? he resigned and yet didn't say anything. I dont think that makes him hero material either. I'm not saying the NDA was insignificant. I'm saying there was a solid argument against it being applicable, AND I'm saying that not breaking it was a mistake. Caz tried harder than you did to get people to pay attention. I don't think he did something heroic by also failing to share the news, but I still think he did more than you. The sheer fact that you're referring to him and pointing out his failure is an acknowledgement that you were wrong. Thanks for that admission. Now all we need is the apology to go with it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5317	Posted - 2014.05.05 01:27:00 - [55] - Quote WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: Whether I care about IWS's FBI claim or not, he's right in that breaching even a 'trivial' NDA will have consequences outside of the domain it existed in. I ain't giving roles involving confidentiality to anyone who was contractually bound to one thing and did another. There's a viable argument that he WASN'T contractually bound at the point where he should have been breaking the NDA though. It's something that could be argued in court with a fair expectation of success. What CCP were doing was wrong, and letting people know that it was wrong would have been the right thing to do. Also, as many people have pointed out, there are plenty of ways to leak the news anonymously. ANYONE with that knowledge, CCP staff, CPM, whatever, could have done it, and WOULD HAVE BEEN RIGHT TO DO SO.
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2508	Posted - 2014.05.05 01:56:00 - [56] - Quote The problem with it all has to do with respect. CCP doesn't seem to respect the community that they hold in such high regards and laud every chance they get. They sold us items for real life monies just to turn around and slap us in the face by not saying one word about DUST on the PS3 and showing us a tech demo just like they did when they show the original DUST514 trailer and demo. They told us they were working on the problems and were focused on development all while doing the exact opposite. They don't tell us about canceling the VITA app and misled us into believing we were playing a game that had somewhere to go. I feel lied to and let down. If they had come here and told us on our forums what was going to happen it wouldn't have been so bad but they chose to tell us in a DUST514 keynote speech that we all though was going to be about this game but instead they told us that they were done with this game and are moving on to develop another game for another platform. They showed blatant disrespect for us by not telling us things, selling us junk for a game that they are basically rolling in a gutter to die and rubbing it in out faces with the keynote speech. I am insulted and my love for CCP has been severely shaken to a point that I will probably never recover from. They continue to be silent which only serves to hurt us more. Some honesty would go a long way right now but they won't even do that. They really need to look into how they treat their customers and fans because to put it mildly it is crap. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5325	Posted - 2014.05.05 02:08:00 - [57] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: They continue to be silent which only serves to hurt us more. Some honesty would go a long way right now but they won't even do that. They really need to look into how they treat their customers and fans because to put it mildly it is crap. As much as I agree with most of what you're saying, that isn't true. We had Logibro posting here for a while: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=159496&find=unread He's actually given some constructive answers, and while not always answering the question(s) he's quoting, he IS making an effort and it looks like he's trying to help us to understand how it all went so wrong.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 4286	Posted - 2014.05.05 02:13:00 - [58] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Michael Arck wrote: CPM did nothing of the kind. Seriously, what power does the CPM has? CCP makes the final call. They can suggest ideas, public opinion and what's best all they want to. If CCP wants to do something, they will do it. To even think that is nonsensical. Betrayed? Ha! Betrayed. Yea okay. All I had was an offhand mention of the grass turning brown and drying up. But the CPM0 knew! they KNEW!! And remained silent. Those who know about a crime and remain silent are the same scum as those who did the crime. There was no excuse to remain silent since in todays world of deletable emails, free websites and inquisitive reporters all that was needed was a simple speculative post on a free website to get news hungry reporters after CCP demanding details. The CPM knew about PC before it came out. They KNEW! So what are you saying? The CPM has done nothing different than what they have been doing and what they should be doing. In their position they did what was agreed upon as part of signing. You guys continously pointing fingers instead of acting like mature adults and understanding the other side of the coin aka placing yourself in other people's shoes to come to an understanding. It's impossible to even reason with some of you. You didn't get what you want so feel you just been wronged. That's bratty. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5325	Posted - 2014.05.05 02:23:00 - [59] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: The CPM knew about PC before it came out. They KNEW! How is an addition to the game that had been frequently requested, and more importantly, was announced in a timely manner with player involvement in its development process comparable to a change in platform focus that happened months before players were informed about it and involved the developers actively avoiding the topic to mislead us into believing that the change wasn't happening while promoting the sale of in-game items they were using to fund a development which many of the paying players WOULDN'T have wanted to support had they known? Quote: So what are you saying? The CPM has done nothing different than what they have been doing and what they should be doing. In their position they did what was agreed upon as part of signing. They haven't done anything differently in a situation where they SHOULD have done things differently. When conditions change, so should your behaviour. You don't go out in the middle of winter wearing a t-shirt and shorts. Quote: You guys continously pointing fingers instead of acting like mature adults and understanding the other side of the coin aka placing yourself in other people's shoes to come to an understanding. I've been under NDA before multiple times, and I've been in a situation once where I've had contractual obligations that conflicted with what I believed to be right. In that situation, I ignored the contract and did the right thing, and the people I worked for gave me credit for my actions when I explained why I did what I did in spite of the paper they had my signature on. Quote: It's impossible to even reason with some of you. You didn't get what you want so feel you just been wronged. That's bratty. There are some people who are upset because they wanted the game on PS4 and having it on PC instead is somehow unreasonable. There are MORE people who are upset because CCP blatantly lied to us about the direction they're taking, both in the short term AND the long term, and convinced many of us to invest money in the direction they had promised then turned around to say that money was going to something completely different. People feel wronged BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN WRONGED. This announcement was not just poorly-handled. It was OFFENSIVELY handled.
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 201	Posted - 2014.05.05 02:24:00 - [60] - Quote Either they knew and went along with it, in which case they didn't perform their job in representing the community Or They tried to stop it and CCP simply ignored them, in which case they have zero influence with CCP, so there's no point in them even trying to represent the community. Either way, why have them represent the community at all, if CCP is just going to do whatever the hell they want anyway?

The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2513	Posted - 2014.05.05 02:41:00 - [61] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: They continue to be silent which only serves to hurt us more. Some honesty would go a long way right now but they won't even do that. They really need to look into how they treat their customers and fans because to put it mildly it is crap. As much as I agree with most of what you're saying, that isn't true. We had Logibro posting here for a while: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=159496&find=unread He's actually given some constructive answers, and while not always answering the question(s) he's quoting, he IS making an effort and it looks like he's trying to help us to understand how it all went so wrong. I agree but that he has been active but they are not meaningful answers. I could give those answers and I am nobody but you are correct they have been more "active". I should have worded my sentence more clearly. I would like to change it to this. They continue to give vague answers that don't answer any real questions. They are providing some feedback to us but it is useless to the actual question that was asked. They need to seriously look into how they treat their fan base and paying customers because the lack of respect and forethought is amazing and I am astonished that they announced Legion like they did and I am continuously let down by their lack of meaningful answers from loyal customers and fans. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2513	Posted - 2014.05.05 02:44:00 - [62] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: There are some people who are upset because they wanted the game on PS4 and having it on PC instead is somehow unreasonable. There are MORE people who are upset because CCP blatantly lied to us about the direction they're taking, both in the short term AND the long term, and convinced many of us to invest money in the direction they had promised then turned around to say that money was going to something completely different. People feel wronged BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN WRONGED. This announcement was not just poorly-handled. It was OFFENSIVELY handled. This "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 617	Posted - 2014.05.05 03:44:00 - [63] - Quote I don't expect the CPM to break an NDA, its a signed legal contract. What do they do after this? Commercial law differs across countries, in Australia you could report something like that as false advertising or misleading conduct to the ACCC and be protected under law but I wouldn't expect a group of gamers to be able to realistically analyse a legal situation in a foreign country. So that really leaves resigning en masse. They'd have to weigh that up against the option to stay and try and engage in damage control, which would be best? Hard to say but IMHO, while you don't resign over trivial garbage this is such a seismic event that the balance comes down pretty heavily on warning the players. People are being misled into spending money, its not just about platform butthurt. They should have resigned so people could have been informed and made their own choice as to whether to spend that money with full disclosure.
TheGoebel Blue Solutions 108	Posted - 2014.05.05 04:12:00 - [64] - Quote I couldn't sleep, this thread is bothering me and I have yet to post anything on any forum related to this issue but I couldn't shake this. I am happy the CPM didn't break NDA. The NDA is an integral part of what makes a construction like the CPM/CSM work. That being said, I think if the whole of CPM resigned at the same time. namely after being shown legion, no NDA would be broken and the community would see the red flag. That's a bit sensationalist though, if the CPM resigned how could they help CCP do some community management, release news of this appropriately? I in no way believe CPM/CSM members had any hand in the Legion announcement being the Dust keynote. But you know what you can do? You can resign now. As CPM. you haven't been listened to, there's no reason to believe you will be listened to and the most effective use of your position is to make a news story out of it. Its your call, but I can tell you from here, it would be the best thing for the current council members to do.
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 146	Posted - 2014.05.05 04:15:00 - [65] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Mary Lilac wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: What do you think the CPM should have done JohnnyAugust? I'm genuinely curious what you think the CPM could have done differently that they did not. Easy, they should have all stepped down. This is the only possible course of action they could have taken because: A. It would not break the NDA and B. IT would be an unmistakable signal to the playerbase that something was wrong. Instead they did nothing, and became complicit in the theft of real life money that has been perpetrated over the last 6 months. CPM are just as much thieves in their in-action as the developers who misrepresented the future of the game to increase profits. grinds the palms of his hands into this face yet again Can you all stop? Seriously? Are there any adults on these forums? I was under the impression that teenagers were in the minority here. Yes, okay, the reveal of Legion was about as bad a ****-up as BP's public relations after the Gulf oil spill, and I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say that. There is no conspiracy. There is no evil plot. It's time to stop the rumormongering and get back to reality. I would be less inclined to respect CPM0 if they all just left because they didn't like CCP's plan for the reveal. I'm glad they stayed where they were and kept trying to convince CCP to change their minds. Bailing out is a cheap move. Most reasonable post I've seen in days Stabby-stabber extraordinaire
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2057	Posted - 2014.05.05 04:24:00 - [66] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: I don't expect the CPM to break an NDA, its a signed legal contract. What do they do after this? Commercial law differs across countries, in Australia you could report something like that as false advertising or misleading conduct to the ACCC and be protected under law but I wouldn't expect a group of gamers to be able to realistically analyse a legal situation in a foreign country. So that really leaves resigning en masse. They'd have to weigh that up against the option to stay and try and engage in damage control, which would be best? Hard to say but IMHO, while you don't resign over trivial garbage this is such a seismic event that the balance comes down pretty heavily on warning the players. People are being misled into spending money, its not just about platform butthurt. They should have resigned so people could have been informed and made their own choice as to whether to spend that money with full disclosure. I agree. The paramount responsibility was to warn the players, whether by resigning or by some other means. What CCP did was deceitful and unethical, and the CPM was fully aware of it. At this point, for me at least, Both CCP and their appointed CPM have absolutely no credibility, and the idea of logging in and playing DUST is distasteful. Likewise for EVE. New Eden is beautiful, but she's working for a scumbag. Caz if you're out there, you have my respect. o7 I support SP rollover.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5183	Posted - 2014.05.05 05:26:00 - [67] - Quote Kelestia Colvolian wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: grinds the palms of his hands into this face yet again Can you all stop? Seriously? Are there any adults on these forums? I was under the impression that teenagers were in the minority here. Yes, okay, the reveal of Legion was about as bad a **-up as BP's public relations after the Gulf oil spill, and I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say that. There is no conspiracy. There is no evil plot. It's time to stop the rumormongering and get back to reality. I would be less inclined to respect CPM0 if they all just left because they didn't like CCP's plan for the reveal. I'm glad they stayed where they were and kept trying to convince CCP to change their minds. Bailing out is a cheap move. This is some of the biggest bollocks I've read on the forums this weekend. There was conspiracy, there was an evil plot. That is the whole f* point, for f's sake! Read Ripard Teg's blog post: http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/fanfest-day-two-red-wedding.html Ripard was on the CSM, the EVE version of the CPM and he makes it plain that everyone at CCP knew for "months and months" that DUST was going to be abandoned. We were kept in the dark the whole time so that CCP could continue to make money from us. There's your f** evil plot right there. I wouldn't expect the CPM to break their NDAs but they should have resigned en masse when it became clear that CCP was intent on this path of fraud. That would have been the sign to us that there was something rotten in the state of Iceland. But the CPM did nothing. They just sat there. And even now, that class-A prick, Iron Wolf Sabre, continues to mock us and take the . CCP and the CPM were both well out of order during this entire process. And until people realise and hold them 100% accountable for their f* ups and outright frauds, we're all going to sleepwalk into exactly the same bollocks with Legion. The sheer amount of tinfoil hat in this post is astonishing.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 9435	Posted - 2014.05.05 05:27:00 - [68] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Kelestia Colvolian wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: grinds the palms of his hands into this face yet again Can you all stop? Seriously? Are there any adults on these forums? I was under the impression that teenagers were in the minority here. Yes, okay, the reveal of Legion was about as bad a **-up as BP's public relations after the Gulf oil spill, and I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say that. There is no conspiracy. There is no evil plot. It's time to stop the rumormongering and get back to reality. I would be less inclined to respect CPM0 if they all just left because they didn't like CCP's plan for the reveal. I'm glad they stayed where they were and kept trying to convince CCP to change their minds. Bailing out is a cheap move. This is some of the biggest bollocks I've read on the forums this weekend. There was conspiracy, there was an evil plot. That is the whole f* point, for f's sake! Read Ripard Teg's blog post: http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/fanfest-day-two-red-wedding.html Ripard was on the CSM, the EVE version of the CPM and he makes it plain that everyone at CCP knew for "months and months" that DUST was going to be abandoned. We were kept in the dark the whole time so that CCP could continue to make money from us. There's your f** evil plot right there. I wouldn't expect the CPM to break their NDAs but they should have resigned en masse when it became clear that CCP was intent on this path of fraud. That would have been the sign to us that there was something rotten in the state of Iceland. But the CPM did nothing. They just sat there. And even now, that class-A prick, Iron Wolf Sabre, continues to mock us and take the . CCP and the CPM were both well out of order during this entire process. And until people realise and hold them 100% accountable for their f* ups and outright frauds, we're all going to sleepwalk into exactly the same bollocks with Legion. The sheer amount of tinfoil hat in this post is astonishing. I've seen worse. -
Major 0nslaught Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2014.05.05 05:29:00 - [69] - Quote iws touched me inappropriately..
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14717	Posted - 2014.05.05 08:29:00 - [70] - Quote TheGoebel wrote: Edit: Post above me get to it first. Curse my slow typing. Still, the point remains the same. I couldn't sleep, this thread is bothering me and I have yet to post anything on any forum related to this issue but I couldn't shake this. I am happy the CPM didn't break NDA. The NDA is an integral part of what makes a construction like the CPM/CSM work. That being said, I think if the whole of CPM resigned at the same time. namely after being shown legion, no NDA would be broken and the community would see the red flag. That's a bit sensationalist though, if the CPM resigned how could they help CCP do some community management, release news of this appropriately? I in no way believe CPM/CSM members had any hand in the Legion announcement being the Dust keynote. But you know what you can do? You can resign now. As CPM. you haven't been listened to, there's no reason to believe you will be listened to and the most effective use of your position is to make a news story out of it. Its your call, but I can tell you from here, it would be the best thing for the current council members to do. Thank you for painting a picture that is more accurate. We went through the same thought processes and discussed options with concequences of their future impacts and we knew that quitting back then would have probably made cpm 0 the last cpm and that would not be absolutely fair to the rest of the community. Also we realized we probably overplayed the 'we are going to quit card.' A card we mostly played over 'why even have a cpm' in the past when cpm was at its weakest state which has probably caused a level of mistrust between the cpm and various members of the company. Just like in real life politics every person has thier own opininion and even if you convince the people you think are in charge, the people in the majority it only takes a very few folks to override the best laid out plans. CPM is in that very weird position where saying 'we told you so' in a rather immature manner is so tempting but the CPM realizes we're at the critical point of being legitimized as a needed organization. We had a half day summit yesterday and you cannot belive how much progress was made for empowering the community. If those talks turn into green lights you will see the impact soon enough and we're having another full day summit today. @Garret While you may have held several NDAs you probably never had Top Secret clearance. It only takes a breach of confidential complaint to pernamently revoke the clearance which shows up on public records it was revoked and that the difference between having a job with a clearance and a job and job without is rather significant in terms of wage and options. FBI and NSA headed up my investigation because I was foreign born of a non american citizen so the grilling was extra tough on me when I first got it. This is nearly as bad of a record to obtain in the states as being a federal criminal. You can't scrub that mark off at all and they're eventually going to find out if they dont at first. Losing my security clearance would disallow me from working in medical because of the HiPPA, any branch of government setcors, and most technical jobs because its part of both national and company security most of the time. Also anyonomous options? LOWL; you're talking about the same company that can nail an eve botter's unaffiliated alt account made under every precaution avoiding being associated with his bots at all. A simple browse through some of the botter forums is sometimes all the entertainment I need. So what really makes you think a simple human powered investigation would not reveal who the anon is? CCP's IA and Security is a rather scary team of people because I am familar with thier capabilities. Also I have to say your talks about how you would break the NDA means that likely you can kiss every and any chance of voulenteer work, ever running for anyting with CCP ever again. FInally we had thought and measured out the concequences instead of acting out of passionate knee jerking. Doing anything you suggested was measured to have the lowest or reversal of impact; and not helped anything move forward. There is no way you can convince me or the rest of the CPM at this point an time that NDA breaching would have ever resulting in anything good. and bottom line; there was about 6 people who claimed to have come across evidence of legion's nature. Not a single one was listened to. Free beers amongst them. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2206	Posted - 2014.05.05 08:48:00 - [71] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I would like to add that in retrospec resigning back then as a whole would have probably been the most shelfish and probably cowardly thing the cpm could have done. Took a bit of convincing internally to keep what we could onboard. Caz was an unfourtunate loss I would have loved to continued to work with him on the transition. I mean if we all quit back then who would be doing the reality checks on ccp's pr campaign today??? Anyways more words to be had tommrow at the full scheduled summit. Minutes processing is.... going to be a learning exercise unfourutunately for the CPM and CCP Shanghai as it will be the first ever done. Rolling on the fuckin floor laughing my fuckin ass out ! Not like many good seems to have been done. Oh god, if only i could talk about everything. Oh god, i even hadnt seen the last post Bucket of BS served directly in IV This Char i only use on the forum. To contact me : Dont. "Flee, you fools"
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 146	Posted - 2014.05.05 08:52:00 - [72] - Quote Yeah, to be honest, your discussing Caz's involvement like that is pretty inappropriate, given the power dynamic created by the NDA and your continued involvement with CCP.
straya fox Sad Panda Solutions 344	Posted - 2014.05.05 08:53:00 - [73] - Quote Free ticket to a party in Europe trumps the dust community apparently.
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 146	Posted - 2014.05.05 08:54:00 - [74] - Quote WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: Yeah, to be honest, your discussing Caz's involvement like that is pretty inappropriate, given the power dynamic created by the NDA and your continued involvement with CCP. Like, there are contractual obligations limiting his right of reply, yeah?
lron Wolf Saber Commando Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:01:00 - [75] - Quote WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: Yeah, to be honest, your discussing Caz's involvement like that is pretty inappropriate, given the power dynamic created by the NDA and your continued involvement with CCP. Like, there are contractual obligations limiting his right of reply, yeah? Yes but what you're forgetting is that I'm a total fucking scrotum.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2206	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:04:00 - [76] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: You also have to realize I cannot go around breaking NDA contracts; that would lead to my own loss of my own top secret clearance. FBI takes that ** seriously. Also if the NDA was that insignificant why didnt Caz spill the beans? he resigned and yet didn't say anything. I dont think that makes him hero material either. Oh and i missed that one as well ! You can seriously bite me dude especially as you're the absolute prototype of the "being CPM strokes my epeen" kind of guy. Yes NDA are serious *, no i didnt break it and go public. There's a limit to what i'll risk regarding a videogame involvment. Yet, i didnt just do nothing. Not like what seems to have been happening since i left CPM. The most i was able to do, i DID. Not for ego, not for the look of it, but because that felt right. FYI, i even checked with a lawyer if NDA was something i could just override. Turned out it wasnt. I'm absolutely shocked that you even dare open your mouth on this or even make a comment about me. This post is the perfect example of your state of mind and how\why you do things. You talk hero material ? Who said that ? Not me. Not anyone. But the simple fact ppl may find someone else's action better than your seems to always make you tilt. Bottom line : Get Life and dont ever mention me again. This Char i only use on the forum.* To contact me : Dont. "Flee, you fools"
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2214	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:19:00 - [77] - Quote Oh i'm getting likes. Well it's not 14K but at least they're genuine. "Oh no he didnt !" He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14720	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:31:00 - [78] - Quote Caz there people are asking for the whole ass you only did half of the ass and you and I both know that there was no way in hell any of us could deliver on the whole ass. Also thank you for disputing Garret's claim on how useless the NDA and proving my point it was something we couldn't just break on a whim. Also measuring likes is like measuring KDR nearly effing useless as the video game stats. As for the getting a life advise I suggest you follow it much more closely; you're obsessing over this a bit too much. I told you as a friend to not hurt yourself over this and you are doing just that. Don't hurt yourself any further. Because I was fine not mentioning you at all until you started attacking me on various outlets. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2068	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:33:00 - [79] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Caz there people are asking for the whole ass you only did half of the ass and you and I both know that there was no way in hell any of us could deliver on the whole ass. And some of us didn't want you to break NDA, but simply resign. You were representing the Dust players, not the Legion players. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2216	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:34:00 - [80] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Caz there people are asking for the whole ass you only did half of the ass and you and I both know that there was no way in hell any of us could deliver on the whole ass. Also thank you for disputing Garret's claim on how useless the NDA and proving my point it was something we couldn't just break on a whim. Also measuring likes is like measuring KDR. You missed the shut it, dont ever mention me again did you ? And for that ? oooooooooooooooooook He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising

Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2216	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:37:00 - [81] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Caz there people are asking for the whole ass you only did half of the ass and you and I both know that there was no way in hell any of us could deliver on the whole ass. And some of us didn't want you to break NDA, but simply resign. You were representing the Dust players, not the Legion players. that + 10 millions. I suppose keeping the possibility to stroke epeen some more in the future was more interesting than doing even the tiniest thing to mark solidarity with the poor actual player, poor buggers situation. But hey, CPM0 was basically 100% PC eve players. So surprise much ? He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14721	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:39:00 - [82] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Caz there people are asking for the whole ass you only did half of the ass and you and I both know that there was no way in hell any of us could deliver on the whole ass. Also thank you for disputing Garret's claim on how useless the NDA and proving my point it was something we couldn't just break on a whim. Also measuring likes is like measuring KDR. You missed the shut it, dont ever mention me again did you ? And for that ? oooooooooooooooooook No; Garret's point cant be hit by the person he's aiming at. It can only be hit by people who side with him. So thank you for proving how stupid this whole conversation is. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2217	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:43:00 - [83] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Caz there people are asking for the whole ass you only did half of the ass and you and I both know that there was no way in hell any of us could deliver on the whole ass. Also thank you for disputing Garret's claim on how useless the NDA and proving my point it was something we couldn't just break on a whim. Also measuring likes is like measuring KDR. You missed the shut it, dont ever mention me again did you ? And for that ? oooooooooooooooooook No; Garret's point cant be hit by the person he's aiming at. It can only be hit by people who side with him. So thank you for proving how stupid this whole conversation is. You only see what pleases you dont you ? So the whole point here is about NDA ? I really dont think so. Nor does 99% of the people out there. But hey, keep living the dream, one day you'll be praised for your action coz damn u deserv it girl ! He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 150	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:45:00 - [84] - Quote IWS: There is -nobody- in your corner. Does your total lack of social awareness blind you to that? You are basically sitting in a room full of people glaring at you, merrily chortling about how right you are as if someone there supports you.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2217	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:46:00 - [85] - Quote WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: IWS: There is -nobody- in your corner. Does your total lack of social awareness blind you to that? You are basically sitting in a room full of people glaring at you, merrily chortling about how right you are as if someone there supports you. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH ! He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 150	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:47:00 - [86] - Quote Your legacy isn't going to be your investment in taking notes at meetings or engaging with the playerbase, it's going to be walking into hostile situations and just shitting everywhere because you're just fundamentally broken as a person.
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:49:00 - [87] - Quote "Hey remember that time that the playerbase was really upset and digesting information it had just been slammed by and what was his name? IWS. IWS started a thread, not even responding to existing threads, just started a thread to engage in hostilities with the players? What the hell?"
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2219	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:49:00 - [88] - Quote WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: Your legacy isn't going to be your investment in taking notes at meetings or engaging with the playerbase, it's going to be walking into hostile situations and just shitting everywhere because you're just fundamentally broken as a person. But dude ! he has 14K likes ! And he frakin knows DEVS !!! He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:51:00 - [89] - Quote "Hey remember when Caz stuck to the NDA but couldn't abide by certain CCP decisions so walked away and IWS decided it was a good time to blurt out 'HE'S NO HERO, HE'S A QUITTER' or similar, knowing that Caz's right of reply was diminished by the NDA. WHAT A STAND UP FELLOW."
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14722	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:54:00 - [90] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Caz there people are asking for the whole ass you only did half of the ass and you and I both know that there was no way in hell any of us could deliver on the whole ass. Also thank you for disputing Garret's claim on how useless the NDA and proving my point it was something we couldn't just break on a whim. Also measuring likes is like measuring KDR. You missed the shut it, dont ever mention me again did you ? And for that ? oooooooooooooooooook No; Garret's point cant be hit by the person he's aiming at. It can only be hit by people who side with him. So thank you for proving how stupid this whole conversation is. You only see what pleases you dont you ? So the whole point here is about NDA ? I really dont think so. Nor does 99% of the people out there. But hey, keep living the dream, one day you'll be praised for your action coz damn u deserv it girl ! You only see what pleases you human. Seeing the forums in turmoil; licking up the tears like some basalisk and stroking your own self inflicted ego at every negative post about dust 514 that crops up and your only goal is to intice more tears because it is how you fester. You're no hero, you're no saviour, you're no messiah so stop selling yourself so high becuase when that evaporates the fall is pretty hard. Also don't do anything stupid. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14722	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:55:00 - [91] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: Your legacy isn't going to be your investment in taking notes at meetings or engaging with the playerbase, it's going to be walking into hostile situations and just shitting everywhere because you're just fundamentally broken as a person. But dude ! he has 14K likes ! And he frakin knows DEVS !!! Only 8 of those likes are from devs mostly CCP Frame. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:56:00 - [92] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: You only see what pleases you human. Seeing the forums in turmoil; licking up the tears like some basalisk and stroking your own self inflicted ego at every negative post about dust 514 that crops up and your only goal is to intice more tears because it is how you fester. You're no hero, you're no saviour, you're no messiah so stop selling yourself so high becuase when that evaporates the fall is pretty hard. Also don't do anything stupid. Oh my god. Do you think you're a movie character or something? REAL HUMANS DON'T TALK LIKE THIS.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1289	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:57:00 - [93] - Quote The CPM did not betray anyone. The members had three choices: 1. Stay in the CPM and try to convince CCP to announce EVE: Legion before Fanfest. 2. Resign. 3. Break NDA and release information on EVE: Legion. If they resign, they lose any ability they might have had to sway CCP's decision, meaning they wouldn't be able to do ****. If they break NDA, not only are they illegally breaking a contractual agreement, they are diminishing any trust CCP might have had in the CPM, which would no doubt have had longstanding consequences for everyone down the road. Naturally, most chose the first option. Why? Because it was the best option for everyone had it worked, and there was no reason to think it wouldn't at the time. Of course, we all know now that it didn't work, but there's no way the CPM could have known their efforts would ultimately be in vain. They aren't clairvoyant, omniscient or otherwise capable of knowing that. You cannot condemn the CPM for their decision. It's the best one they could have been expected to make.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 424	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:58:00 - [94] - Quote IWS bought, sold, and corrupted by being made to feel like a special snowflake by a minor league game company. I would be more worried about that if I was the FBI than breaking a game NDA.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2222	Posted - 2014.05.05 09:58:00 - [95] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Caz there people are asking for the whole ass you only did half of the ass and you and I both know that there was no way in hell any of us could deliver on the whole ass. Also thank you for disputing Garret's claim on how useless the NDA and proving my point it was something we couldn't just break on a whim. Also measuring likes is like measuring KDR. You missed the shut it, dont ever mention me again did you ? And for that ? oooooooooooooooooook No; Garret's point cant be hit by the person he's aiming at. It can only be hit by people who side with him. So thank you for proving how stupid this whole conversation is. You only see what pleases you dont you ? So the whole point here is about NDA ? I really dont think so. Nor does 99% of the people out there. But hey, keep living the dream, one day you'll be praised for your action coz damn u deserv it girl ! You only see what pleases you human. Seeing the forums in turmoil; licking up the tears like some basalisk and stroking your own self inflicted ego at every negative post about dust 514 that crops up and your only goal is to intice more tears because it is how you fester. You're no hero, you're no saviour, you're no messiah so stop selling yourself so high becuase when that evaporates the fall is pretty hard. Also don't do anything stupid. Lol really ? You're gonna be that guy ? i mean, "You HUMAN". like for real ? UBERLOL He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14722	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:00:00 - [96] - Quote WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: "Hey remember when Caz stuck to the NDA but couldn't abide by certain CCP decisions so walked away and IWS decided it was a good time to blurt out 'HE'S NO HERO, HE'S A QUITTER' or similar, knowing that Caz's right of reply was diminished by the NDA. WHAT A STAND UP FELLOW." I remember when I was happy to not ever mention Cazderon ever again because of the whole legion thing getting revealed and I no longer have to deceive about what he was doing. Until he opened up twitter and called butted into a conversation between me and grit and called my statement cow dung despite the statement is true. Who doesnt want a time machine at tihs point to go back and have things redone proper instead of goofed ball. How much more horrible my and many other's posting would be without the edit button? How terrible the world would be if you where disallowed to make mistakes. The world would be devoid of humans at that point. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
noob cavman Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 1492	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:01:00 - [97] - Quote Are people really yelling at cpm mow over ccps ball bag move to pc? So we gone from being rightfully angry at ccp for their lack of tact but now just yelling at people who tried there hardest to get ccp to tells about legion ina better way (-_-;) I want to be a caveman! Ccp: LEGION Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Psn id marko_blues
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:01:00 - [98] - Quote MY MY, HUMAN. YOU ARE A BASILISK WHO HAS INFLICTED AND EGO UPON HIMSELF. HOW DO WORDS EVEN WORK? YOU WORK ONLY TO ENTICE TEARS TO FURTHER YOUR DARK WORKS. YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! IT WAS SAID THAT YOU WOULD DESTROY THE TROLLS, NOT JOIN THEM. YOU WERE TO BRING BALANCE TO THE GAME, NOT LEAVE IT IN DARKNESS!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14722	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:02:00 - [99] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Lol really ? You're gonna be that guy ? i mean, "You HUMAN". like for real ? UBERLOL Your move, Human. It's all you need to realize it is what you and I are. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1289	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:04:00 - [100] - Quote "Mortal" is more flair to it, don't you think?

WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:04:00 - [101] - Quote +¬(-ía¦Å¦»-ía¦Å)¦¦ - I HAVE DIFFICULTY NAVIGATING SOCIAL SPACES
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2222	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:05:00 - [102] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: "Hey remember when Caz stuck to the NDA but couldn't abide by certain CCP decisions so walked away and IWS decided it was a good time to blurt out 'HE'S NO HERO, HE'S A QUITTER' or similar, knowing that Caz's right of reply was diminished by the NDA. WHAT A STAND UP FELLOW." I remember when I was happy to not ever mention Cazderon ever again because of the whole legion thing getting revealed and I no longer have to deceive about what he was doing. Until he opened up twitter and called butted into a conversation between me and grit and called my statement cow dung despite the statement is true. Who doesnt want a time machine at tihs point to go back and have things redone proper instead of goofed ball. How much more horrible my and many other's posting would be without the edit button? How terrible the world would be if you where disallowed to make mistakes. The world would be devoid of humans at that point. I dont even understand what you're saying anymore. Did you just extrapolate stuff to the general state of the world ? Poiint being i dont give a rat's ass about what people rememeber\think of me. Hell, if i'm forgotten i wont give a damn fk as long as i feel right about myself. And the people i played with. Which i will still play with. He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising**
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:06:00 - [103] - Quote Imagine if we had no edit button. For our hearts. wistfully looks to the skies
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14722	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:07:00 - [104] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: "Hey remember when Caz stuck to the NDA but couldn't abide by certain CCP decisions so walked away and IWS decided it was a good time to blurt out 'HE'S NO HERO, HE'S A QUITTER' or similar, knowing that Caz's right of reply was diminished by the NDA. WHAT A STAND UP FELLOW." I remember when I was happy to not ever mention Cazderon ever again because of the whole legion thing getting revealed and I no longer have to deceive about what he was doing. Until he opened up twitter and called butted into a conversation between me and grit and called my statement cow dung despite the statement is true. Who doesnt want a time machine at tihs point to go back and have things redone proper instead of goofed ball. How much more horrible my and many other's posting would be without the edit button? How terrible the world would be if you where disallowed to make mistakes. The world would be devoid of humans at that point. I dont even understand what you're saying anymore. Did you just extrapolate stuff to the general state of the world ? Poiint being i dont give a rat's ass about what people rememeber\think of me. Hell, if i'm forgotten i wont give a damn f**k as long as i feel right about myself. And the people i played with. Which i will still play with. You obviously care; you're posting still. I mean why is WTF not shutdown like you said it should be. A npc corp should be by your name by now. I don't play with your friends. I am certainly not trying to steal them. Your friends are yours and if they want to continue to play dust that is thier right. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:08:00 - [105] - Quote (He actually seems to believe he's laying down some sick burns. Everyone just play along.) OMG CAZ GOT TOLD.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14722	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:09:00 - [106] - Quote WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: (He actually seems to believe he's laying down some sick burns. Everyone just play along.) OMG CAZ GOT TOLD. Your sarcasm is duely noted. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Orenji Jiji 421	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:10:00 - [107] - Quote So let me summarize: 1. The CPM failed to have any impact on CCPs decision to rip the community. CPM silently agreed to CCPs actions. 2. The CPM then decided that it was heroic of them to keep their privileges, you know, for the community! 3. The CPM was happy when community finally learned that it was mislead, lied to and ripped, because it was heavy burden for CPM to carry and it was finally lifted. CPM rejoiced. 4. Bonus round: For representing the community's best interest CPM will now probably get an extension? :) Oh wow, in wikileaks era none of you clowns thought of blowing a whistle via proxy? GREAT JOB AT REPRESENTING THE COMMUNITY. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I remember when I was happy to not ever mention Cazderon ever again because of the whole legion thing getting revealed and I no longer have to deceive about what he was doing. We don't care about the whole legion thing, we care about lies and deception that you chose to take part in. It was your choice, nobody made you do it. Your defense is as ****** as your attitude. You did a bad job at representing the community and you should quit. CPM0 = "F*ck you, got mine." No more money for CCP (Can't Complete Projects).
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:11:00 - [108] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: (He actually seems to believe he's laying down some sick burns. Everyone just play along.) OMG CAZ GOT TOLD. Your sarcasm is duely noted. Have you also noted my complete and utter contempt and my strong feeling that you need to go outside and interact with real people to learn how to engage with them?
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2223	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:11:00 - [109] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: WhatWhat DJINN TheButt wrote: "Hey remember when Caz stuck to the NDA but couldn't abide by certain CCP decisions so walked away and IWS decided it was a good time to blurt out 'HE'S NO HERO, HE'S A QUITTER' or similar, knowing that Caz's right of reply was diminished by the NDA. WHAT A STAND UP FELLOW." I remember when I was happy to not ever mention Cazderon ever again because of the whole legion thing getting revealed and I no longer have to deceive about what he was doing. Until he opened up twitter and called butted into a conversation between me and grit and called my statement cow dung despite the statement is true. Who doesnt want a time machine at tihs point to go back and have things redone proper instead of goofed ball. How much more horrible my and many other's posting would be without the edit button? How terrible the world would be if you where disallowed to make mistakes. The world would be devoid of humans at that point. I dont even understand what you're saying anymore. Did you just extrapolate stuff to the general state of the world ? Poiint being i dont give a rat's ass about what people rememeber\think of me. Hell, if i'm forgotten i wont give a damn fk as long as i feel right about myself. And the people i played with. Which i will still play with. You obviously care; you're posting still. I mean why is WTF not shutdown like you said it should be. A npc corp should be by your name by now. I don't play with your friends. I am certainly not trying to steal them. Your friends are yours and if they want to continue to play dust that is thier right. lol. WTFR i dont own, it's always been a friend thing which is probably why it is still there. I dont decide if it shuts down or not, never mind if i still play the game. And yes i'm posting, why shouldnt i enjoy one last more drama ? It's not like you're not giving me a good one. He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising**
noob cavman Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 1492	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:12:00 - [110] - Quote Its now become two housewives sniping each other other garden fence. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: LEGION Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Psn id marko_blues

WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:13:00 - [111] - Quote Careful, he might call you a basilisk again. Or a human.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2223	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:13:00 - [112] - Quote noob cavman wrote: Its now become two housewives sniping each other other garden fence. sorry about that He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 152	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:14:00 - [113] - Quote noob cavman wrote: Its now become two housewives sniping each other other garden fence. F*cking snipers.
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 2930	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:19:00 - [114] - Quote Well I am just going to ask a simple open ended question, and let me just, in advance, apologise if this causes some forum rage etc... Do you think that maybe CCP or even the CPM should of reached out to the Dust 514 players going to Fanfest. Players like Zatara and I who don-¦t play eve and just Dust. Players like myself who don-¦t even attend the eve keynote because we don-¦t play eve. Seriously though, as a person: IWS, CPM, and CCP what am I supposed to take from FF 2014. Betrayal is coming to my mind The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
noob cavman Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 1492	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:23:00 - [115] - Quote Sorry typing is not my thing with a hangover. So im getting this correct so far? Caz is a former cpm who left over the whole legion thing. And wolf being wolf sometimes has just dropped himself iI the proverbial ****. Which has now turned in a strange 360 noscope battle over the garden fence in unflattering dresses? like really caz if your french your close enough to us brits to have better sarcasm than this. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: LEGION Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Psn id marko_blues
WhatWhat DJINN TheButt Ametat Security Amarr Empire 153	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:25:00 - [116] - Quote How is Caz meant to reply to being called a basilisk? "Wut" is probably about the most appropriate reply and his has been close to that,
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 838	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:26:00 - [117] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: The CPM did not betray anyone. The members had three choices: 1. Stay in the CPM like little bitches on a leash. 2. Resign. 3. Break NDA and release information on EVE: Legion. FTFY em ta kool t'nod
noob cavman Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 1492	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:27:00 - [118] - Quote I don't even want to begin trying to guess how you must feel reg. But ccp really ****** up I want to be a caveman! Ccp: LEGION Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Psn id marko_blues
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 2931	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:29:00 - [119] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Well I am just going to ask a simple open ended question, and let me just, in advance, apologise if this causes some forum rage etc... Do you think that maybe CCP or even the CPM should of reached out to the Dust 514 players going to Fanfest. Players like Zatara and I who don-¦t play eve and just Dust. Players like myself who don-¦t even attend the eve keynote because we don-¦t play eve. Seriously though, as a person: IWS, CPM, and CCP what am I supposed to take from FF 2014. Betrayal is coming to my mind Maybe I am just going to re quote this, because I am still very drunk (so I could be seeing things) but was a CPM and ex one not just talking? The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
Poultryge1st Da Short Buss RISE of LEGION 69	Posted - 2014.05.05 10:43:00 - [120] - Quote So when are people going to stop spreading rumors about legion, CCP, and the CPM? Saberwing and logibro said they will get more answers to us as soon as they possibly can. All this stuff I read on hear reminds me why I never posted or read these forums in the first place. Please try to act like adults here people.

ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 2932	Posted - 2014.05.05 11:06:00 - [121] - Quote So are you ******* kidding me Is my question to complicated? I brought it up as more of a way to a get a legit response now I am actually kinda upset that IWS and caz have just simply vanished The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 425	Posted - 2014.05.05 11:25:00 - [122] - Quote ...tumbleweed...
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 2933	Posted - 2014.05.05 11:25:00 - [123] - Quote xAckie wrote: ...tumbleweed... pathetic.... The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2232	Posted - 2014.05.05 12:08:00 - [124] - Quote Hey ReG Do you really need my opinion on the whole FF thing ? Coz i m pretty sure you know where i stand. I have no idea how i would have react if i was the one finding this out on the spot after investing in a plane ticket and a FF pass. Well actually, i'm pretty sure i would have torched something. He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5186	Posted - 2014.05.05 12:14:00 - [125] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Well I am just going to ask a simple open ended question, and let me just, in advance, apologise if this causes some forum rage etc... Do you think that maybe CCP or even the CPM should of reached out to the Dust 514 players going to Fanfest. Players like Zatara and I who don-¦t play eve and just Dust. Players like myself who don-¦t even attend the eve keynote because we don-¦t play eve. Seriously though, as a person: IWS, CPM, and CCP what am I supposed to take from FF 2014. Betrayal is coming to my mind And that's the big issue with how they did this big reveal. What else were any of us supposed to get? I mean, I play EVE, and I was ***** LIVID after that Dust Keynote. I spent maybe 40 minutes ranting on Corp chat before coming back upstairs and raging with friends on Skype. The only reason I even watched anymore of the Dust stuff and eventually got the full picture that they should have given us at the start is because a very good friend of mine told me I should remember Incarna and how everything panned out that time. I took her advice, chilled out, and got back to watching the stream and following the forums. She got to say "I told you so" in the end, because she was right about this just being a massive PR **-up. It seems yet again like several of the divisions of their studio aren't talking to each other and it ends in all of them looking like betrayers in front of thousands of people which was only compounded by how excited a lot of us were for this "thing" that we'd been hearing about them working on while doing the point-releases. I'm pretty sure none of us expected to have an hour-long presentation turn out to be 15 minutes of first talking about everything we've wanted all this time, and then saying Dust will never get any of it because they're switching the game to PC. Obviously we can see now that that wasn't all there was to it, but if you're a Dust-only player, and you were watching that stream or sitting in that presentation, what else would you think?
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 2935	Posted - 2014.05.05 12:28:00 - [126] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Hey ReG Do you really need my opinion on the whole FF thing ? Coz i m pretty sure you know where i stand. I have no idea how i would have react if i was the one finding this out on the spot after investing in a plane ticket and a FF pass. Well actually, i'm pretty sure i would have torched something. Thanks man, Sorry If I came off blunt and douchy there. Honestly caz, you're one of the cooler cats and I appreciate your silent protest, to me, it was worth something. This experience with FF has left a very bitter taste in my mouth not just with CCP but the gaming industry as a whole. Luckily, Iceland is an amazing place, so THAT PART WAS REALLY FUN. I just wish someone winked or even hinted just a slight nudge. The worst part was that all Devs and some CPM just smiled and waved until the impending doom. meh it is what it is also please don't hate on IWS, too much (He is cute and cuddly, in his own unique way) The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2233	Posted - 2014.05.05 12:41:00 - [127] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Hey ReG Do you really need my opinion on the whole FF thing ? Coz i m pretty sure you know where i stand. I have no idea how i would have react if i was the one finding this out on the spot after investing in a plane ticket and a FF pass. Well actually, i'm pretty sure i would have torched something. Thanks man, Sorry If I came off blunt and douchy there. Honestly caz, you're one of the cooler cats and I appreciate your silent protest, to me, it was worth something. This experience with FF has left a very bitter taste in my mouth not just with CCP but the gaming industry as a whole. Luckily, Iceland is an amazing place, so THAT PART WAS REALLY FUN. I just wish someone winked or even hinted just a slight nudge. The worst part was that all Devs and some CPM just smiled and waved until the impending doom. meh it is what it is also please don't hate on IWS, too much (He is cute and cuddly, in his own unique way) No worries dude. I really feel your pain trust me. I'll keep in mind the 2013 FF where we got to hang and when we were so innocent and full of hope U got ps4 right ? I'm sure we'll fight again soon He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5353	Posted - 2014.05.05 13:53:00 - [128] - Quote So after I went to bed, this thread's dramasplosion appears to have continued unabated. And more importantly, IWS clarified a few things he really SHOULD have been saying instead of starting that "obvious troll is obvious" thread about how other games without a 10-year plan were fine to get sequels instead of the not-promised continuation of the original, so DUST shouldn't be held to its promises just like they weren't held to promises they never made. Even more importantly still, Caz showed up, and while raging at IWS, backed him up on the most important point (at least what I consider the most important point). So, disregarding the majority of the epeen match between you two for now, THANK YOU for (finally) actually explaining your side of the situation CLEARLY and PROPERLY. We now know a bit more about the situation. Legion announced internally. CPM find out. CPM push VERY HARD for CCP to share this news with the players, but aren't listened to. At least one CPM member looks into the viability of breaking NDA without taking a hit. OPTIONS ARE DISCUSSED WITH MASS RESIGNATION AND BREAKING NDA BOTH SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED. So, results? Decision made: Keep arguing right up to Fanfest, but do nothing. Caz quit, and NOBODY who stayed with CPM thought that maybe you guys could play that card and push his resignation into the limelight? Having a prominent CPM member quit, and EITHER that person OR the rest of the CPM making a big deal of it would have drawn attention to the "something is very wrong here" side of things. Because SOMETHING WAS VERY WRONG HERE, and now that we know, it's something that we really, REALLY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN EARLIER. So yes, CPM was right about what they said to CCP. But no, they didn't succeed in their jobs. From the sound of things, they tried. There are a few things I can think of which they COULD have tried and didn't, but they tried. I'm not removing my past comments, I'm not revoking the position that I personally WOULD break NDA if it was for a good reason, and I'm going to defend the fact that there is legal argument and precedent for contracts like this one to be voided in similar cases. I'm also not going to say that I feel like my frustration at that point was unjustified, or that I was wrong to behave the way I did at the time. I lacked information which was relevant to the situation, and the people who had that information took their sweet time in sharing it. So while I can admit that I was wrong, it wasn't through any fault of my own. Based on the information I had available to me at the time, I feel like my comments in this (and other) threads were justified and relevant to the situation. So, as much as I wish more had been done, and as much as I wish CCP and the CPM had done things differently, I am willing to accept that this may not be as clear-cut as it looked. Now the serious things are out of the way, back to IWS and Caz raging at one another. IWS, I specifically pointed out, as you were, that Caz didn't do all he could have done for the situation. Not many of us were pointing to him as an example of what CPM should have done. They were pointing to him and saying "at least he did SOMETHING", while conceding that it didn't achieve much in the grand scheme of things. All of you talked things over, discussed your options, and did what you thought was best. For Caz, that meant standing down. IWS, for you, it didn't. NEITHER OF YOU has the right to deny the validity of the other's decision. YOU were the ones in a position to do something, WE IN THE COMMUNITY were not. I wish Caz (and the rest of you) had come here and made a big enough deal about that resignation to raise a few flags. But at this point, that's trading backwards. IWS, I know you don't like this situation either, but playing nice with it and trying to talk it up like it was a good thing after seeing the player's rage? That was low. And targeting Caz as if people are calling him a hero? Also pretty low. And trying to point to FREE BEERS as a reliable source? Even if he had information, no. Nobody had been taking him seriously on that news, BECAUSE WE HAD NOTHING BUT HIS WORD. One player, NOT affiliated with CCP or CPM or any reliable source we knew about. If he could cite sources, or if other known members of the community had spoken up backing his claims, then maybe. And maybe if you knew he had real information, CPM should have acted on his leak. What do you think would have happened if in the space of about an hour, EVERY person in the CPM "just happened" to post in a thread where someone else was leaking the information. I'm sure you could have found something to say, and seeing all of you show up like that would have raised a flag too, without any need to break NDA. Caz, you resigned. You obviously don't like this situation. I wish you could have said something. Even just something to draw attention to the fact that something was wrong. CPM may have been solidly gagged, but kicked the door they locked you behind would have had us asking some questions, even if they might not have been the right ones. Now, obviously, it's too late. And yes, it's good that at least one of you TRIED to force CCP's hand on this. I'm just sorry it didn't work. I think it's fair to say that you guys DID make an effort. Caz, IWS, all of you. I also think it's fair to say that you failed, but it's NOT fair to put the blame for that failure entirely on you. There's legitimate argument that there was probably more you could have done. There's legitimate argument that CCP should have listened and instead forced you NOT to do what SHOULD have been your jobs. You guys are meant to be representing the community. Part of the problem was probably that CCP made it hard for you to meet that responsibility. There was probably also something you could have done but didn't see at the time. I don't know how significant either side of that...
TheGoebel Blue Solutions 115	Posted - 2014.05.05 14:15:00 - [129] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: You guys are meant to be representing the community. Part of the problem was probably that CCP made it hard for you to meet that responsibility. There was probably also something you could have done but didn't see at the time. I don't know how significant either side of that was. That's for you to know, and live with. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: We went through the same thought processes and discussed options with concequences of their future impacts and we knew that quitting back then would have probably made cpm 0 the last cpm and that would not be absolutely fair to the rest of the community. Also we realized we probably overplayed the 'we are going to quit card.' A card we mostly played over 'why even have a cpm' in the past when cpm was at its weakest state which has probably caused a level of mistrust between the cpm and various members of the company. Just like in real life politics every person has thier own opininion and even if you convince the people you think are in charge, the people in the majority it only takes a very few folks to override the best laid out plans. CPM is in that very weird position where saying 'we told you so' in a rather immature manner is so tempting but the CPM realizes we're at the critical point of being legitimized as a needed organization. We had a half day summit yesterday and you cannot belive how much progress was made for empowering the community. If those talks turn into green lights you will see the impact soon enough and we're having another full day summit today. The fact we didnt quit as allowed us to help shape things up for legion and possibly and fallback for dust as well such as the ewn progression system was made under advisement of the CPM as the original model presented to teh cpm would have infurated everyone including the most die hard of fanboys for the game I don't quite understand the word 'possibly' here. I think its because I don't have trust in CCP. Anything that hasn't happened yet can not be predicted. The effort IWS and CPM have put in, have they beared product? Do we have tangible evidence that the CPM has been any sort of guiding force for CCP? Please don't cite any of the reactionary movements from over this weekend as I feel 5000 people have participated in those actions, not just CPM. You've fought for the expansion of the powers of CPM. But right now, does that matter? Dust will still need player feedback while it sits on the back burner. I would hazard to say that CPM doesn't need to exist for that. CPM could be helpful in Legion but it wouldn't be elected by the playerbase from that game. Why then, should the CPM continue?
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2239	Posted - 2014.05.05 14:18:00 - [130] - Quote This sounds like a reasonable enough breakdown of the situation. He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising

Triple Repair Madrugar Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 99	Posted - 2014.05.05 14:22:00 - [131] - Quote It's a whole lot of fricken words that the CPM and CCP trading. In the end, what happened has happened. Words are meaningless and actions are everything. Look at what they did, not what they say. Laurent, I applaud you for your silent protest. The rest of the CPM are silent partners in robbing the community blind for the past seven months. For shame. Get DUST purchases from last 90 days refunded! 1-800-345-SONY and press 2 then 2.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 2762	Posted - 2014.05.05 14:51:00 - [132] - Quote What did you guys expected from CPM0? Seriously, nobody voted for them.They're all actual / former Eve players, so it's quite understandable they just don't give a **** about console only gamers. The only one I could trust was Caz. Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14732	Posted - 2014.05.05 19:52:00 - [133] - Quote @ Garret Blacknova Thank you for your thought out rational and reply. As always you're entitled to your opinion and I wont do anything to have it held against you as people under emotion do things they regret later. I know its been difficult the last few days but CCP needs to come forward and start fixing things on thier own. I will be busy for a few days doing some related work so CCP should have room to step in and do things. Things I am expecting them to do for you guys. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2501	Posted - 2014.05.05 19:54:00 - [134] - Quote Rahl Draak wrote: .....playing the smallest, saddest song...on the world's smallest violin.................just for you. Smallest song? What?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14732	Posted - 2014.05.05 20:04:00 - [135] - Quote TheGoebel wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: You guys are meant to be representing the community. Part of the problem was probably that CCP made it hard for you to meet that responsibility. There was probably also something you could have done but didn't see at the time. I don't know how significant either side of that was. That's for you to know, and live with. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: We went through the same thought processes and discussed options with concequences of their future impacts and we knew that quitting back then would have probably made cpm 0 the last cpm and that would not be absolutely fair to the rest of the community. Also we realized we probably overplayed the 'we are going to quit card.' A card we mostly played over 'why even have a cpm' in the past when cpm was at its weakest state which has probably caused a level of mistrust between the cpm and various members of the company. Just like in real life politics every person has thier own opininion and even if you convince the people you think are in charge, the people in the majority it only takes a very few folks to override the best laid out plans. CPM is in that very weird position where saying 'we told you so' in a rather immature manner is so tempting but the CPM realizes we're at the critical point of being legitimized as a needed organization. We had a half day summit yesterday and you cannot belive how much progress was made for empowering the community. If those talks turn into green lights you will see the impact soon enough and we're having another full day summit today. The fact we didnt quit as allowed us to help shape things up for legion and possibly and fallback for dust as well such as the ewn progression system was made under advisement of the CPM as the original model presented to teh cpm would have infurated everyone including the most die hard of fanboys for the game I don't quite understand the word 'possibly' here. I think its because I don't have trust in CCP. Anything that hasn't happened yet can not be predicted. The effort IWS and CPM have put in, have they beared product? Do we have tangible evidence that the CPM has been any sort of guiding force for CCP? Please don't cite any of the reactionary movements from over this weekend as I feel 5000 people have participated in those actions, not just CPM. You've fought for the expansion of the powers of CPM. But right now, does that matter? Dust will still need player feedback while it sits on the back burner. I would hazard to say that CPM doesn't need to exist for that. CPM could be helpful in Legion but it wouldn't be elected by the playerbase from that game. Why then, should the CPM continue? Becuase nothing is gauranteed at this time. I dont want to say anything that basically confirms anything and its so easy to use grey words that reader base can translate to white or black if you get the drift. Legion for all I know could get red light instead of green lit. I cannot comment on the chances because I am not in those frevrent flurry of meetings. And despite Legion being out in the open the closed doors is NDAing any and every speculation so it does me or any of you any good to declare Legion's state. It is best to let CCP do that. As for the CPM perception of power its very skewed and the only thing I will cite is that the CSM took 5 years to get where it is. The expectations of doing that in a year is massively rediculous with both Uprising 1.0 and Legion thrown on top of the current members. CPM expansion of responsibility is not a fight done alone; members of CCP have been participating as much as they could. Ultimately the CPM should continue because Dust 514 is still running; there are players still playing and there are no plans to shut dust 514 anytime soon. An election for fresh members is certainly needed. They are still the best link between players and developers, they are still the best reality check CCP has well before the idea explodes on the community like it has, and they are still the best voices of the players when CCP needs it the most. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
bigolenuts Ancient Exiles. 755	Posted - 2014.05.05 20:05:00 - [136] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Hey ReG Do you really need my opinion on the whole FF thing ? Coz i m pretty sure you know where i stand. I have no idea how i would have react if i was the one finding this out on the spot after investing in a plane ticket and a FF pass. Well actually, i'm pretty sure i would have torched something. Thanks man, Sorry If I came off blunt and douchy there. Honestly caz, you're one of the cooler cats and I appreciate your silent protest, to me, it was worth something. This experience with FF has left a very bitter taste in my mouth not just with CCP but the gaming industry as a whole. Luckily, Iceland is an amazing place, so THAT PART WAS REALLY FUN. I just wish someone winked or even hinted just a slight nudge. The worst part was that all Devs and some CPM just smiled and waved until the impending doom. meh it is what it is also please don't hate on IWS, too much (He is cute and cuddly, in his own unique way) How did you not kill anyone? "CCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers"
Triple Repair Madrugar Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 102	Posted - 2014.05.05 20:22:00 - [137] - Quote bigolenuts wrote: How did you not kill anyone? Probably because he is a normal person and not a sociopath? Get DUST purchases from last 90 days refunded! 1-800-345-SONY and press 2 then 2.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5371	Posted - 2014.05.05 20:45:00 - [138] - Quote Triple Repair Madrugar wrote: bigolenuts wrote: How did you not kill anyone? Probably because he is a normal person and not a sociopath? He's NOT? This is REGNUM we're talking about here. You might need to go back and do some fact-checking on that statement. (and this post might need to be not taken too seriously. A little bit, but not too much)
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1668	Posted - 2014.05.05 22:27:00 - [139] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: TheGoebel wrote: Edit: Post above me get to it first. Curse my slow typing. Still, the point remains the same. I couldn't sleep, this thread is bothering me and I have yet to post anything on any forum related to this issue but I couldn't shake this. I am happy the CPM didn't break NDA. The NDA is an integral part of what makes a construction like the CPM/CSM work. That being said, I think if the whole of CPM resigned at the same time. namely after being shown legion, no NDA would be broken and the community would see the red flag. That's a bit sensationalist though, if the CPM resigned how could they help CCP do some community management, release news of this appropriately? I in no way believe CPM/CSM members had any hand in the Legion announcement being the Dust keynote. But you know what you can do? You can resign now. As CPM. you haven't been listened to, there's no reason to believe you will be listened to and the most effective use of your position is to make a news story out of it. Its your call, but I can tell you from here, it would be the best thing for the current council members to do. Thank you for painting a picture that is more accurate. We went through the same thought processes and discussed options with concequences of their future impacts and we knew that quitting back then would have probably made cpm 0 the last cpm and that would not be absolutely fair to the rest of the community. Also we realized we probably overplayed the 'we are going to quit card.' A card we mostly played over 'why even have a cpm' in the past when cpm was at its weakest state which has probably caused a level of mistrust between the cpm and various members of the company. Just like in real life politics every person has thier own opininion and even if you convince the people you think are in charge, the people in the majority it only takes a very few folks to override the best laid out plans. CPM is in that very weird position where saying 'we told you so' in a rather immature manner is so tempting but the CPM realizes we're at the critical point of being legitimized as a needed organization. We had a half day summit yesterday and you cannot belive how much progress was made for empowering the community. If those talks turn into green lights you will see the impact soon enough and we're having another full day summit today. The fact we didnt quit as allowed us to help shape things up for legion and possibly and fallback for dust as well such as the ewn progression system was made under advisement of the CPM as the original model presented to teh cpm would have infurated everyone including the most die hard of fanboys for the game @Garret While you may have held several NDAs you probably never had Top Secret clearance. It only takes a breach of confidential complaint to pernamently revoke the clearance which shows up on public records it was revoked and that the difference between having a job with a clearance and a job and job without is rather significant in terms of wage and options. FBI and NSA headed up my investigation because I was foreign born of a non american citizen so the grilling was extra tough on me when I first got it. This is nearly as bad of a record to obtain in the states as being a federal criminal. You can't scrub that mark off at all and they're eventually going to find out if they dont at first. Losing my security clearance would disallow me from working in medical because of the HiPPA, any branch of government setcors, and most technical jobs because its part of both national and company security most of the time. Also anyonomous options? LOWL; you're talking about the same company that can nail an eve botter's unaffiliated alt account made under every precaution avoiding being associated with his bots at all. A simple browse through some of the botter forums is sometimes all the entertainment I need. So what really makes you think a simple human powered investigation would not reveal who the anon is? CCP's IA and Security is a rather scary team of people because I am familar with thier capabilities. Also I have to say your talks about how you would break the NDA means that likely you can kiss every and any chance of voulenteer work, ever running for anyting with CCP ever again. FInally we had thought and measured out the concequences instead of acting out of passionate knee jerking. Doing anything you suggested was measured to have the lowest or reversal of impact; and not helped anything move forward. There is no way you can convince me or the rest of the CPM at this point an time that NDA breaching would have ever resulting in anything good. and bottom line; there was about 6 people who claimed to have come across evidence of legion's nature. Not a single one was listened to. Free Beers amongst them. Confirmation Bias will be strnog with that one. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA I am ex military and NEVER , ever did I hear about a VIDEO GAME needing top secret clearance from DIA, NSA, NRO, N DIA, M DIA. Talk to the sig. F U C K Legion. Planetside 2 , Destiny, Watchdogs, Division, Witcher, Order on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
GerAseR United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 17	Posted - 2014.05.05 22:59:00 - [140] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I mean if we all quit back then who would be doing the reality checks on ccp's pr campaign today??? Dude, are you serious? Why do you need 3 question marks? It's easy as **: Somebody from CCP's payroll. xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: What did you guys expected from CPM0? Seriously, nobody voted for them.They're all actual / former Eve players, so it's quite understandable they just don't give a ** about console only gamers. The only one I could trust was Caz. Same here. We fought them in MAG, we fought them in DUST sometimes squads met each other in Battlefield and sometimes our squads fought together. We all (UPS,Maphia,WTF) like the same games and have the same limitation (native speaking) in our clans. Whats best for them maybe would be the best for us too, quite simple. ^^@upsGerAseR <-> ups-clan.com^^

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14734	Posted - 2014.05.05 23:10:00 - [141] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA I am ex military and NEVER , ever did I hear about a VIDEO GAME needing top secret clearance from DIA, NSA, NRO, N DIA, M DIA. I was going to add a lot more in this edit but a car bomb just went off a few blocks from here so I am going to go and have a look at the firefight and to see what Cartel it is this time doing the ruckus........ Talk to the sig. My previous job fixing high tech airplanes needed the top secret clearance. There are hundreds of ways of losing that clearance. Breaking a NDA can be amongst them. Driving drunk and getting arrested is another. NSA and FBI where brought in for my interview when I had to take it most of it involved my interaction with other countries. DHLS was not that powerful yet administratively. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 641	Posted - 2014.05.05 23:17:00 - [142] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: TheGoebel wrote: Edit: Post above me get to it first. Curse my slow typing. Still, the point remains the same. I couldn't sleep, this thread is bothering me and I have yet to post anything on any forum related to this issue but I couldn't shake this. I am happy the CPM didn't break NDA. The NDA is an integral part of what makes a construction like the CPM/CSM work. That being said, I think if the whole of CPM resigned at the same time. namely after being shown legion, no NDA would be broken and the community would see the red flag. That's a bit sensationalist though, if the CPM resigned how could they help CCP do some community management, release news of this appropriately? I in no way believe CPM/CSM members had any hand in the Legion announcement being the Dust keynote. But you know what you can do? You can resign now. As CPM. you haven't been listened to, there's no reason to believe you will be listened to and the most effective use of your position is to make a news story out of it. Its your call, but I can tell you from here, it would be the best thing for the current council members to do. Thank you for painting a picture that is more accurate. We went through the same thought processes and discussed options with concequences of their future impacts and we knew that quitting back then would have probably made cpm 0 the last cpm and that would not be absolutely fair to the rest of the community. Also we realized we probably overplayed the 'we are going to quit card.' A card we mostly played over 'why even have a cpm' in the past when cpm was at its weakest state which has probably caused a level of mistrust between the cpm and various members of the company. Just like in real life politics every person has thier own opininion and even if you convince the people you think are in charge, the people in the majority it only takes a very few folks to override the best laid out plans. CPM is in that very weird position where saying 'we told you so' in a rather immature manner is so tempting but the CPM realizes we're at the critical point of being legitimized as a needed organization. We had a half day summit yesterday and you cannot belive how much progress was made for empowering the community. If those talks turn into green lights you will see the impact soon enough and we're having another full day summit today. The fact we didnt quit as allowed us to help shape things up for legion and possibly and fallback for dust as well such as the ewn progression system was made under advisement of the CPM as the original model presented to teh cpm would have infurated everyone including the most die hard of fanboys for the game @Garret While you may have held several NDAs you probably never had Top Secret clearance. It only takes a breach of confidential complaint to pernamently revoke the clearance which shows up on public records it was revoked and that the difference between having a job with a clearance and a job and job without is rather significant in terms of wage and options. FBI and NSA headed up my investigation because I was foreign born of a non american citizen so the grilling was extra tough on me when I first got it. This is nearly as bad of a record to obtain in the states as being a federal criminal. You can't scrub that mark off at all and they're eventually going to find out if they dont at first. Losing my security clearance would disallow me from working in medical because of the HiPPA, any branch of government setcors, and most technical jobs because its part of both national and company security most of the time. Also anyonomous options? LOWL; you're talking about the same company that can nail an eve botter's unaffiliated alt account made under every precaution avoiding being associated with his bots at all. A simple browse through some of the botter forums is sometimes all the entertainment I need. So what really makes you think a simple human powered investigation would not reveal who the anon is? CCP's IA and Security is a rather scary team of people because I am familar with thier capabilities. Also I have to say your talks about how you would break the NDA means that likely you can kiss every and any chance of voulenteer work, ever running for anyting with CCP ever again. FInally we had thought and measured out the concequences instead of acting out of passionate knee jerking. Doing anything you suggested was measured to have the lowest or reversal of impact; and not helped anything move forward. There is no way you can convince me or the rest of the CPM at this point an time that NDA breaching would have ever resulting in anything good. and bottom line; there was about 6 people who claimed to have come across evidence of legion's nature. Not a single one was listened to. Free Beers amongst them. Confirmation Bias will be strnog with that one. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA I am ex military and NEVER , ever did I hear about a VIDEO GAME needing top secret clearance from DIA, NSA, NRO, N DIA, M DIA. I was going to add a lot more in this edit but a car bomb just went off a few blocks from here so I am going to go and have a look at the firefight and to see what Cartel it is this time doing the ruckus........ Talk to the sig. Yes indeed Tech lol. I agree that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. I did work for the US defense industry and I have a friend in the NSA and another who worked out of Ft. Meade that was US Army and I've never heard of such a thing either. Plus, anyone who does work like that, usually does not function out in public places unless it's on a strictly pure consulting basis. People with those types of clearances usually work at military or government installations.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5373	Posted - 2014.05.05 23:23:00 - [143] - Quote Clever guys. Because obviously, as someone involved in the CPM for DUST 514, the only possible thing IWS could have been doing his entire life is this one videogame. So logically, that has to be the source of and reason for his top secret clearance. Just because SOME of us live our entire lives in the joys of gaming and our beloved forums, doesn't mean that holds true for everyone in the community - even those who are supposed to be responsible while they're here.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14734	Posted - 2014.05.05 23:28:00 - [144] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Clever guys. Because obviously, as someone involved in the CPM for DUST 514, the only possible thing IWS could have been doing his entire life is this one videogame. So logically, that has to be the source of and reason for his top secret clearance. Just because SOME of us live our entire lives in the joys of gaming and our beloved forums, doesn't mean that holds true for everyone in the community - even those who are supposed to be responsible while they're here. +1 CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2744	Posted - 2014.05.05 23:35:00 - [145] - Quote This thread... really just needs to be locked. It was kind of funny at first but now its just sad...
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5376	Posted - 2014.05.05 23:51:00 - [146] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: This thread... really just needs to be locked. It was kind of funny at first but now its just sad... Really? I thought it was getting funny again...
TheGoebel Blue Solutions 115	Posted - 2014.05.06 03:40:00 - [147] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: TheGoebel wrote: I don't quite understand the word 'possibly' here. I think its because I don't have trust in CCP. Anything that hasn't happened yet can not be predicted. The effort IWS and CPM have put in, have they beared product? Do we have tangible evidence that the CPM has been any sort of guiding force for CCP? Please don't cite any of the reactionary movements from over this weekend as I feel 5000 people have participated in those actions, not just CPM. You've fought for the expansion of the powers of CPM. But right now, does that matter? Dust will still need player feedback while it sits on the back burner. I would hazard to say that CPM doesn't need to exist for that. CPM could be helpful in Legion but it wouldn't be elected by the playerbase from that game. Why then, should the CPM continue? Becuase nothing is gauranteed at this time. I dont want to say anything that basically confirms anything and its so easy to use grey words that reader base can translate to white or black if you get the drift. Legion for all I know could get red light instead of green lit. I cannot comment on the chances because I am not in those frevrent flurry of meetings. And despite Legion being out in the open the closed doors is NDAing any and every speculation so it does me or any of you any good to declare Legion's state. It is best to let CCP do that. As for the CPM perception of power its very skewed and the only thing I will cite is that the CSM took 5 years to get where it is. The expectations of doing that in a year is massively rediculous with both Uprising 1.0 and Legion thrown on top of the current members. CPM expansion of responsibility is not a fight done alone; members of CCP have been participating as much as they could. Ultimately the CPM should continue because Dust 514 is still running; there are players still playing and there are no plans to shut dust 514 anytime soon. An election for fresh members is certainly needed. They are still the best link between players and developers, they are still the best reality check CCP has well before the idea explodes on the community like it has, and they are still the best voices of the players when CCP needs it the most. First, lets again be clear. No one is breaking a legal document to whistleblow on a video game. This boggles my mind. Second, I don't need to know what's going on behind closed doors, or what information you can't infer to me to know legions quality. It's simply understanding my relationship with CCP is abusive. And they can come to me with roses saying, "no baby, this time we're going to add all those features. I know I've promised them before but it was too hard, babe. You know how it gets, I get so frustrated and then move platforms. This time will be different, I promise." This time will not be different.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 761	Posted - 2014.05.06 04:03:00 - [148] - Quote TheGoebel wrote: First, lets again be clear. I have no actual idea how serious breaking a CA/NDA is. You're not really good at grasping the concept of: Corporate Espionage Conflict of Interests Breach of Contracts. IWS is still ****, but CA/NDAs are serious business. And yes IWS, you could have been a "Conscious Objector" but no, you didn't.
TheGoebel Blue Solutions 116	Posted - 2014.05.06 04:25:00 - [149] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: TheGoebel wrote: First, lets again be clear. I have no actual idea how serious breaking a CA/NDA is. You're not really good at grasping the concept of: Corporate Espionage Conflict of Interests Breach of Contracts. IWS is still ****, but CA/NDAs are serious business. And yes IWS, you could have been a "Conscious Objector" but no, you didn't. I didn't phrase that right. I meant to say that it boggles my mind that people would think that's ok. to break the NDA. No reason to face those legal consequences for this particular instance. Now if CCP was bathing in the blood of orphans to stay young, well okay.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 763	Posted - 2014.05.06 04:26:00 - [150] - Quote TheGoebel wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: TheGoebel wrote: First, lets again be clear. I have no actual idea how serious breaking a CA/NDA is. You're not really good at grasping the concept of: Corporate Espionage Conflict of Interests Breach of Contracts. IWS is still **, but CA/NDAs are serious business. And yes IWS, you could have been a "Conscious Objector" but no, you didn't. I didn't phrase that right. I meant to say that it boggles my mind that people would think that's ok. to break the NDA. No reason to face those legal consequences for this particular instance. Now if CCP was bathing in the blood of orphans to stay young, well okay. much better, sorry for being crass, i deal with CA/NDAs everyday of my life. ***** blows, but yay inside knowledge?

TheGoebel Blue Solutions 117	Posted - 2014.05.06 04:30:00 - [151] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: much better, sorry for being crass, i deal with CA/NDAs everyday of my life. ******* blows, but yay inside knowledge? I've stated it before in this thread. But NDA's are a necessary to get a CPM/CSM thing to work. But now it seems pretty useless to have a CPM, NDA's or not.
Laurent Cazaderon What The French Red Whines. 2268	Posted - 2014.05.06 07:45:00 - [152] - Quote TheGoebel wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: much better, sorry for being crass, i deal with CA/NDAs everyday of my life. ***** blows, but yay inside knowledge? I've stated it before in this thread. But NDA's are a necessary to get a CPM/CSM thing to work. But now it seems pretty useless to have a CPM, NDA's or not. I still think a structure like the CPM\CSM is needed. Not especially now or regarding the recent events but generally speaking. No matter how it ended, it was a pleasant experience and with some solid involvment from the devs, it actually works. Or at least, it doesnt hurt. He, though forbidden by the Codex, was a Precursor. He tried the Replication of Chromosomes. He led to an Uprising**
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5387	Posted - 2014.05.06 14:18:00 - [153] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: TheGoebel wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: much better, sorry for being crass, i deal with CA/NDAs everyday of my life. ******* blows, but yay inside knowledge? I've stated it before in this thread. But NDA's are a necessary to get a CPM/CSM thing to work. But now it seems pretty useless to have a CPM, NDA's or not. I still think a structure like the CPM\CSM is needed. Not especially now or regarding the recent events but generally speaking. No matter how it ended, it was a pleasant experience and with some solid involvment from the devs, it actually works. Or at least, it doesnt hurt. Well if IWS is right about the CPM having the potential for more power in the future, the next time something like this is going to happen, they might be able to pre-empt it and actually do something. Also, for the most part, this CPM has been useful for the community and CCP. I honestly don't believe that CCP would have given up on the concept if everyone had stepped down in response to a stupid decision from the devs, OR if the NDA had been broken for totally valid reasons as I believe they would have been in this case. I can understand those concerns, and I don't know the devs as well as some of you guys who have met them, but I wouldn't expect them to be that petty about something which I'm sure at least some of them also knew to be a terrible decision.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 677	Posted - 2014.05.06 14:22:00 - [154] - Quote JonnyAugust wrote: Of the players. For the players... Or not. The audacity to consider their self-importance so great as to throw all loyal Dust fans under the bus and allow us to waste real life money on a game they knew was going to die months before even some Devs knew. Their involvement in the development of this game has been detrimental at best since the beginning as they help sowed the seeds of its demise. The cancelation of DUST PS3 development is not only CCPs failure but also CPM0s failure. Nova Knife attests that he was so mad when he heard the knews that we all heard at fanfest. So mad he did absolutely nothing to save the friends and fellow players of DUST for months. He coward in the shadows afraid to lose his position of being lap dog to CCP. It's easy for him to talk a big game now and pretend to side with all of us when in reality he is no better than the developers that threw us under the bus. I find the complete lack of character disgusting, no one had the guts to stand up and say enough is enough or resign to make a point. They chose to obey rather than represent us. I am more disappointed with the CPM than CCP because I can understand at least that CCP operates as a business for profit reasons. CPM was here to help us, the players and CCP to realize the dream that was DUST514. Breaking a NDA is not just "breaking al ittle rule of CCp, making lose his position" It's breaking a REAL LAW, with REAL punishement, thousand of $ etcetc... If CCP decide to sue the person.
KING SALASI MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 245	Posted - 2014.05.06 15:04:00 - [155] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: JonnyAugust wrote: Of the players. For the players... Or not. The audacity to consider their self-importance so great as to throw all loyal Dust fans under the bus and allow us to waste real life money on a game they knew was going to die months before even some Devs knew. Their involvement in the development of this game has been detrimental at best since the beginning as they help sowed the seeds of its demise. The cancelation of DUST PS3 development is not only CCPs failure but also CPM0s failure. Nova Knife attests that he was so mad when he heard the knews that we all heard at fanfest. So mad he did absolutely nothing to save the friends and fellow players of DUST for months. He coward in the shadows afraid to lose his position of being lap dog to CCP. It's easy for him to talk a big game now and pretend to side with all of us when in reality he is no better than the developers that threw us under the bus. I find the complete lack of character disgusting, no one had the guts to stand up and say enough is enough or resign to make a point. They chose to obey rather than represent us. I am more disappointed with the CPM than CCP because I can understand at least that CCP operates as a business for profit reasons. CPM was here to help us, the players and CCP to realize the dream that was DUST514. Breaking a NDA is not just "breaking al ittle rule of CCp, making lose his position" It's breaking a REAL LAW, with REAL punishement, thousand of $ etcetc... If CCP decide to sue the person. How would they know who to sue if you're an unamed source. The media doesn't reveal it sources. CCP would have never found out. Bottom line they are not needed full resignation from all of them is need ASAP. One thing to remember the only power we have over CCP is not to purchase Aurum. One the Eve side It's unsubbing. CPM rolled over and took the only advantage away.
DeeJay One Commando Perkone Caldari State 303	Posted - 2014.05.06 19:19:00 - [156] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: The media doesn't reveal it sources. CCP would have never found out. Good joke! You really underestimate CCP's internal affairs division and overestimate "media" morale. Few words, from even such and underdog as CCP is, to another games company and the media in question is basically done - without access to media events, game previews, etc. Sadly the same goes for "conventional" media also, but that's not the topic. We have a world of corporations, not "free press" and other ideals - at least not for the mass consumer.
KING SALASI MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 246	Posted - 2014.05.06 19:30:00 - [157] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: KING SALASI wrote: The media doesn't reveal it sources. CCP would have never found out. Good joke! You really underestimate CCP's internal affairs division and overestimate "media" morale. Few words, from even such and underdog as CCP is, to another games company and the media in question is basically done - without access to media events, game previews, etc. Sadly the same goes for "conventional" media also, but that's not the topic. We have a world of corporations, not "free press" and other ideals - at least not for the mass consumer. Lol it's a video game please NDA's get broken all the time. Easy contact a media source You would remain ab unnamed source. By stating CCP is planning to do X,Y,Z To the Dust community again how would CCP know. CCP is not the NSA, video game leaks happen all the time. When was the last time you heard someone being sued in The video game industry over a NDA lol. Bottom line CPM failed and they all need to resign ASAP.


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