Dust dropsuit levels are not equivalent to ship classes in Eve. We're all in the same class, the dropsuit levels are equivalent to the eve ships tech level.

And lack of variety is exactly why we need tiercide, because it will create more variety as each level of dropsuit becomes a more specialist thing. Standard suits would be highly flexible on the battlefield, but never doing any one role as well as the others, Advanced would be more specialised, but still with a bit of flexibility and prototype would be highly specialised at one role and ineffective at others.

The standard suits, would effectively be the current light, medium and heavy ones. Little in the way of bonuses so they're versatile and adaptable. Advanced would give you some role bonuses so you're encouraged to fit them a certain way, but they still have some flexibility. This is where you get the equivalent of the Scout, Assault, Logistics and Commando roles. Prototype would be a step beyond where suits are bonused so that they're extremely effective at one aspect of their role, so this is where you'd get dedicated snipers, and advanced scouts, and things like healer logi or support logi. But the Prototype suits would, through adjustment of the slots, pg and cpu, be only good at their intended role.

I don't think I'm explaining this very well to be honest, but the main point is not comparing the range of dropsuits to the whole range of ships in eve, but comparing them to a single ship class, like frigates for example.

I'm not sure how vehicles fit in, I've never really used them and never really studied them at all.


[Edit because I forgot to mention this] Aurum gear should be limited to cosmetic changes and boosters.

"Dust dropsuit levels are not equivalent to ship classes in Eve. We're all in the same class, the dropsuit levels are equivalent to the eve ships tech level."


In what way are they not?
Light suit = frigate
Scout = covert ops frigate (T2)
medium = cruiser
assault = heavy assault cruiser (T2)
Logistics = logistics (T2)
Heavy = battleship
Commando = battlecruiser (idiosyncrasy)
Sentinel = marauder (T2)

Going to start with the obvious one. Logistics isn't a class of it's own, you get logistics at frigate and cruiser level so that comparison fails.

As to the others, you're only really taking into account size of weapon and eHP of each class or suit type. What you're failing to take into account is that, for the most part, each class of ship in Eve is best suited to taking out the same class of ship. The exception being destroyers making excellent frigate killers. Whereas in Dust, the medium and light suits are on a par with each other in terms of how easy it is for one to kill the other, allowing for equally skilled players, and the heavy wipes the floor with all of them. So at best, light and medium suits are equivalent to frigates and heavies are equivalent to destroyers. As has been pointed out to me quite effectively in Iron Wolf Sabre's thread about the same topic.

TLDR; tiericide can ONLY work if MORE SCHTUFF is ADDED to the game.-á

Agreed that it would ruin modules. It could work for reorganizing weapon sub-variants by skill level rather than having so many teirs. Where it can shine is holding back power creep on Frames and Vehicles. Both of those are areas we'e had (or are having) trouble with.

No, it'd work just fine. Itll be easier to add stuff after tiericide.

No, it'd work just fine. Itll be easier to add stuff after tiericide.

Exactly, not sure why this is so hard to grasp...

I'll throw in some counterpoints here:

Tiers in Eve: you'll have to elaborate on things like fleet ships little more on that: do these require a higher skill level or not? Sounds to me like they're just harder to obtain. There's also a big difference between tiers and tech levels- going from basic medum to logi is a tech level, not a tier.

Risk vs ISK: higher tech level ships will cost more and be better in certain aspects. Worse in others, but the pros will outweigh the cons as far as new stats.

BPOs: there is a temporary and a permanent solution to this. The temporary is to keep the BPOs at low tech levels. Basic medium, most basic logi, barebones assault rifle, etc. In the long run when we can make our own stuff, BPOs can become crafting schematics. AUR and event BPOs being more efficient to use than future BPOs

AUR: Again, super easy- just let us buy aurum from the next tech level.

Power divide: See risk vs ISK. Did you just do that to add more points?

NPE: While nothing can fix NPE, it won't be AS BAD as it is now.


TL;DR, you don't understand what tech levels are end ended up needlessly typing all that because of it.

Exactly, not sure why this is so hard to grasp...

Heres how it would work, as I imagine it:

Take the unbonused frame suits (light med and heavy) and keep the ADV as the new militia variants, none of which would require SP. The pro, you get to try out these suits, but they dont specialized, dont get any kind of bonus. basically, they are there for you to try out, find your playstyle before you commit SP.

Now, regular suits. All suits are to be replaced by their Proto equivilent. Example:

To unlock a minmatar Logi suit, you need to invest first in the Minmatar Dropsuit skill (this replaces the min light, med and heavy suit skills, SP sinks as they are). Different tiers of this skill unlock the different types of suit, similarly to todays dropsuit command skill, which I would remove. 1=Assault, 3=Scout,pilot, 5= sentinel, etc.

Minmatar Dropsuits 3 > Minmatar Logistics 1 = todays proto min logi.

Now, this suit will not be at its full potential, but you have the same amount of slots as everyone else and fitting. But, with the skill at just 1, you wont be as powerful, but you will be close. As you add more SP to the suit skill it gets better.

Caldari Dropsuits 5 > Caldari Commando 1 = todays proto Calcommando.

etc

TL;DR: all suits are now protosuits, SP just makes them better thru bonuses, nearly equalizing suits thru fitting, and not relying on "content = variety"

Variety is already dead so what harm could it do right?

Having 3 suits that are incrementally better is not variety.

Lol do you use any of them besides proto to fight/stomp and militia/bpo for isk?

I know I don't.

Anyone says otherwise is probably a liar.

With DNS taking over PC there is way too much ISK being generated without the right ISK sinks to destroy it.

And if DNS didn't control PC, that faucet would still be there. It is OK, you can identify a problem without attributing it to "the bad guys". Attributing it to DNS just muddles your argument in political BS.

If anything, DNS controlling PC just forces more clone pack attacks. Destroying ISK.

And if DNS didn't control PC, that faucet would still be there. It is OK, you can identify a problem without attributing it to "the bad guys". Attributing it to DNS just muddles your argument in political BS.

If anything, DNS controlling PC just forces more clone pack attacks. Destroying ISK.

Still waiting on an answer to my previous conundrum though.

NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS

GǪBUT THERE ARE STILL TIERS IN EVE! To use an example, You have the Omen which is an Amarr T1 cruiser, the Navy Omen which is an all-around better version, the Zealot which is a T2 version of the Omen
(continued)

An ISK efficiency stat would be one reason. The same player with infinite ISK that enjoys padding his K/D with nonstop PRO gear would likely have some very ugly ISK efficiency numbers. Players in EVE with billions of ISK don't run golems fitted like the killmail you linked for the very same reason: it's embarrassing as hell.

Lol do you use any of them besides proto to fight/stomp and militia/bpo for isk?

I know I don't.

Anyone says otherwise is probably a liar.

Saying that what people are asking for is wrong because they want something different is bonkers.

AUR gear is useless when your game doesn't retain players for long enough to convert them into paying customersGǪ

Saying that improving the tutorial alone will solve issues with the NPE in the face of the current UC ratio for suit tiers

This is in something like the top 3 on the list of ways to communicate ineffectively.

1: tech levels aren't the same as tiers. and by saying what you just said, you made the tier system sound even worse; we have both the tech levels, which gets better as you go up, and then there is tiers, which gets better as you go up, so a PROTO tech 2 (say a Assault), is much more superior than a STD medium. This just closes the gap. Also, although it is true that for the same role, a tech 2 is better than a tech 1, that doesn't mean that it's overall better.

2: Your solutions for thing could just as easily go a opposite way and be actually good. For instance, your idea with AUR things. look at League of Legends. You can buy the same legend with a different skins. People Do that. A lot. All CCP has to do is make a lot of neat skins, or even sell us the ability to make our own skins, which they could turn into BPO's. Speaking of BPO's, all they would have to do is turn the BPO's into whatever the original item was equivalent (say the Dragonfly Scout G-I into the Dragonfly Scout G-whatever), and then turn it into a EVE style BPO, where we would just buy the materials off the market, put it into a production line, and make the items.

3: Although you're right about the last two points, they don't cover the full effect of why a lot of people, including most if not all of the current CPM doesn't like it. I can't speak for everyone, but I'll explain why both of those are not completely right:

For the NPE one, you discuss PROTO stomping. PROTO stomping doesn't have to be just against noobs. say one guy doesn't feel like using PROTO gear or is saving up because he doesn't have a ISK farm. Then comes the douche who only runs PROTO gear. They face off, and even though the guy in the STD gear might be better, he lost due to the worse gear. That is not fair, and shouldn't happen. Under a tiercide dust, the guy might have won.

For the economy one, as I said, the ISK farm people won't give a single ****. They got ISK to burn, so losing a truck load or two in a match doesn't matter to them, as they know they will never run out.

NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS

GǪBUT THERE ARE STILL TIERS IN EVE! To use an example, You have the Omen which is an Amarr T1 cruiser, the Navy Omen which is an all-around better version, the Zealot which is a T2 version of the Omen
(continued)

Eve corp is making the infinite isk happen.