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Autoaim Bot514
The Hetairoi
99
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Posted - 2014.04.29 04:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Still waiting on an answer to my previous conundrum though. An ISK efficiency stat would be one reason. The same player with infinite ISK that enjoys padding his K/D with nonstop PRO gear would likely have some very ugly ISK efficiency numbers. Players in EVE with billions of ISK don't run golems fitted like the killmail you linked for the very same reason: it's embarrassing as hell. Eve corp is making the infinite isk happen. This is very true, insanely wealthy EVE sugar dadies. But presumably, the EVE corp wants something that they are using us to get and we, ofc, are fighting to make ISK. So a full campaign in proto gear is going to cost our employers a pretty penny, and will push back by a considerable amount the date by which their ROI is positive. Corps that can produce results without wall-to-wall protospam will be in very high demand. And as far as players running exclusively proto in you infinite everything scenario, yes there will be proto Assaults, Proto Logis, Proto Sentinels, Proto Commandos, Proto Scouts. With an incredible variety of fittings adapted to an incredible variety of roles.
I can make 50 million in eve in a few minutes. Losing 150 proto suits is nothing to an eve corp. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14400
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Posted - 2014.04.29 04:42:00 -
[92] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Still waiting on an answer to my previous conundrum though. An ISK efficiency stat would be one reason. The same player with infinite ISK that enjoys padding his K/D with nonstop PRO gear would likely have some very ugly ISK efficiency numbers. Players in EVE with billions of ISK don't run golems fitted like the killmail you linked for the very same reason: it's embarrassing as hell. Eve corp is making the infinite isk happen. This is very true, insanely wealthy EVE sugar dadies. But presumably, the EVE corp wants something that they are using us to get and we, ofc, are fighting to make ISK. So a full campaign in proto gear is going to cost our employers a pretty penny, and will push back by a considerable amount the date by which their ROI is positive. Corps that can produce results without wall-to-wall protospam will be in very high demand. And as far as players running exclusively proto in you infinite everything scenario, yes there will be proto Assaults, Proto Logis, Proto Sentinels, Proto Commandos, Proto Scouts. With an incredible variety of fittings adapted to an incredible variety of roles. I can make 50 million in eve in a few minutes. Losing 150 proto suits is nothing to an eve corp.
Annotation this is the work of a single player, even at a 10 to 1 trade ratio thats 5 million isk enough for 10 protos with change.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1495
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Posted - 2014.04.29 04:42:00 -
[93] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Still waiting on an answer to my previous conundrum though. An ISK efficiency stat would be one reason. The same player with infinite ISK that enjoys padding his K/D with nonstop PRO gear would likely have some very ugly ISK efficiency numbers. Players in EVE with billions of ISK don't run golems fitted like the killmail you linked for the very same reason: it's embarrassing as hell. Eve corp is making the infinite isk happen. This is very true, insanely wealthy EVE sugar dadies. But presumably, the EVE corp wants something that they are using us to get and we, ofc, are fighting to make ISK. So a full campaign in proto gear is going to cost our employers a pretty penny, and will push back by a considerable amount the date by which their ROI is positive. Corps that can produce results without wall-to-wall protospam will be in very high demand. And as far as players running exclusively proto in you infinite everything scenario, yes there will be proto Assaults, Proto Logis, Proto Sentinels, Proto Commandos, Proto Scouts. With an incredible variety of fittings adapted to an incredible variety of roles. I can make 50 million in eve in a few minutes. Losing 150 proto suits is nothing to an eve corp. There is certainly an exchange rate to factor in, remember. I believe the player-run exchanges were operating around 10:1 ratio. Making 500 mill in EVE would require a significant amount of time.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14400
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Posted - 2014.04.29 04:47:00 -
[94] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:
There is certainly an exchange rate to factor in, remember. I believe the player-run exchanges were operating around 10:1 ratio. Making 500 mill in EVE would require a significant amount of time.
not really... noob with no skills can earn that in 2 weeks.
Imagine what well oiled wallet mongers make...
BTW economical warfare in eve is freakishly scary; do not get involved in one.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Autoaim Bot514
The Hetairoi
99
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Posted - 2014.04.29 04:54:00 -
[95] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote: There is certainly an exchange rate to factor in, remember. I believe the player-run exchanges were operating around 10:1 ratio. Making 500 mill in EVE would require a significant amount of time.
It takes about 5 hours of pve in eve to make that in null sec. And that's not including moon goo isk printers. Money is no object to eve players even when you consider the conversion rate. Eve curious regularly throw hundreds of 1.5 billion isk carriers into fights just to measure epeens.
Get a clue.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14400
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Posted - 2014.04.29 04:59:00 -
[96] - Quote
Another fantasy to break is how cheap your suits would be if they where player provided.
we're talking 10 isk, not 10 hundred, 10 thousand or million; just 10 a pop. Unpopular ones will dip further and may become refine fodder; the specialists would likely gain most popularity capping at 1k a piece.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Lynn Beck
Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men.
1577
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Posted - 2014.04.29 05:02:00 -
[97] - Quote
Modules need tiericided, and weapons need tiericided.
We need to have lv1 unlock the 'Assault Rifle', with lv3 unlocking variants. These variants would have a straight trade-off of DPS-range: E.g. Assault Rifle: 34 Dmg, 750 RoF, 60 clip. 45 optimal, 60 effective.
AR 2(unlocked at lv3) 36 Dmg, 750 RoF, 60 clipsize. 40 optimal, 60 effective.
AR 3(still lv3) 60 dmg, 400 RoF, 48 Clip. 55 optimal, 70 effective.
The lv5 AR would grant a customizable(?) variant, where we can add rigs to the gun.
Modules should be 'tiericided' but stil have tiers, allow me to explain:
Basic shiel extender- 66 HP, 15% penalty. Complex shield extender- 66 HP, 5% penalty.
In all actuality these should be buffed, such that we aren't required to stack HP mods- my proposal is make Light extenders that are identical to now, and add Heavy Extenders, which grant 132 HP, at a 10% proto penalty.
Scanning mods would either stay identical to now, or would have the same performance across tiers, only decreasing in fitting cost as you progress.
Biotics i am unsure of.
General John Ripper
Like ALL the things!!!
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2045
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Posted - 2014.04.29 05:42:00 -
[98] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another fantasy to break is how cheap your suits would be if they where player provided.
we're talking 10 isk, not 10 hundred, 10 thousand or million; just 10 a pop. Unpopular ones will dip further and may become refine fodder; the specialists would likely gain most popularity capping at 1k a piece. And here i thought the refine value if a suit would be determined by it's mineral inputs.
Maybe you got a nice perpetual motion machine you wanna try and sell us while you're at it?
I support SP rollover.
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Lynn Beck
Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men.
1577
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Posted - 2014.04.29 05:57:00 -
[99] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another fantasy to break is how cheap your suits would be if they where player provided.
we're talking 10 isk, not 10 hundred, 10 thousand or million; just 10 a pop. Unpopular ones will dip further and may become refine fodder; the specialists would likely gain most popularity capping at 1k a piece. And here i thought the refine value if a suit would be determined by it's mineral inputs. Maybe you got a nice perpetual motion machine you wanna try and sell us while you're at it? Suppliers always keep a stock of an item, if an item becomes too unpopular, the supplier/producer will refine the spares to make room for the new popular item.
General John Ripper
Like ALL the things!!!
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Teilka Darkmist
303
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Posted - 2014.04.29 06:00:00 -
[100] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another fantasy to break is how cheap your suits would be if they where player provided.
we're talking 10 isk, not 10 hundred, 10 thousand or million; just 10 a pop. Unpopular ones will dip further and may become refine fodder; the specialists would likely gain most popularity capping at 1k a piece. And here i thought the refine value if a suit would be determined by it's mineral inputs. Maybe you got a nice perpetual motion machine you wanna try and sell us while you're at it? When you look at the fairly small mineral amounts a frigate takes, and realise that it costs 100-200 thousand isk for a T1 hull, then scale down to a single dropsuit, Iron Wolf Saber's estimate of how little they'd cost may actually be on the high side. Most likely, a Blueprint in eve wouldn't be able to make less than 100 or possibly 1000 (or maybe more) dropsuits due to the small mineral costs per suit.
Woman.
Sniper, but from near the opponent's redline more often than not.
Not a KDR Worshipper.
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad.
2607
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Posted - 2014.04.29 06:16:00 -
[101] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another fantasy to break is how cheap your suits would be if they where player provided.
we're talking 10 isk, not 10 hundred, 10 thousand or million; just 10 a pop. Unpopular ones will dip further and may become refine fodder; the specialists would likely gain most popularity capping at 1k a piece. And here i thought the refine value if a suit would be determined by it's mineral inputs. Maybe you got a nice perpetual motion machine you wanna try and sell us while you're at it? When you look at the fairly small mineral amounts a frigate takes, and realise that it costs 100-200 thousand isk for a T1 hull, then scale down to a single dropsuit, Iron Wolf Saber's estimate of how little they'd cost may actually be on the high side. Most likely, a Blueprint in eve wouldn't be able to make less than 100 or possibly 1000 (or maybe more) dropsuits due to the small mineral costs per suit.
What kind of minerals are dropsuits made from though? Keeping in mind that tritanium is not stable in atmospheric conditions.
These dropsuits could be made of pure morphite or zydrine for all we know... that would certainly cost a pretty penny... |
Teilka Darkmist
306
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Posted - 2014.04.29 06:32:00 -
[102] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another fantasy to break is how cheap your suits would be if they where player provided.
we're talking 10 isk, not 10 hundred, 10 thousand or million; just 10 a pop. Unpopular ones will dip further and may become refine fodder; the specialists would likely gain most popularity capping at 1k a piece. And here i thought the refine value if a suit would be determined by it's mineral inputs. Maybe you got a nice perpetual motion machine you wanna try and sell us while you're at it? When you look at the fairly small mineral amounts a frigate takes, and realise that it costs 100-200 thousand isk for a T1 hull, then scale down to a single dropsuit, Iron Wolf Saber's estimate of how little they'd cost may actually be on the high side. Most likely, a Blueprint in eve wouldn't be able to make less than 100 or possibly 1000 (or maybe more) dropsuits due to the small mineral costs per suit. What kind of minerals are dropsuits made from though? Keeping in mind that tritanium is not stable in atmospheric conditions. These dropsuits could be made of pure morphite or zydrine for all we know... that would certainly cost a pretty penny... Not in the quantities we're talking. Morphite is currently selling at roughly 5000 isk per unit and Zydrine at around 500 isk per unit (and these are eve isk, not dust isk) a T1 frigate takes roughly 2-20 zydrine and no Morphite. Morphite starts getting used for T2 ships and a T2 frigate doesn't take more than about 50 units of Morphite. Scale that down to dropsuits and one dropsuit would take a small fraction of a single unit of each. Even if it was pure Morphite, A dropsuit would not cost more than a couple of isk.
Woman.
Sniper, but from near the opponent's redline more often than not.
Not a KDR Worshipper.
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad.
2607
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 06:37:00 -
[103] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another fantasy to break is how cheap your suits would be if they where player provided.
we're talking 10 isk, not 10 hundred, 10 thousand or million; just 10 a pop. Unpopular ones will dip further and may become refine fodder; the specialists would likely gain most popularity capping at 1k a piece. And here i thought the refine value if a suit would be determined by it's mineral inputs. Maybe you got a nice perpetual motion machine you wanna try and sell us while you're at it? When you look at the fairly small mineral amounts a frigate takes, and realise that it costs 100-200 thousand isk for a T1 hull, then scale down to a single dropsuit, Iron Wolf Saber's estimate of how little they'd cost may actually be on the high side. Most likely, a Blueprint in eve wouldn't be able to make less than 100 or possibly 1000 (or maybe more) dropsuits due to the small mineral costs per suit. What kind of minerals are dropsuits made from though? Keeping in mind that tritanium is not stable in atmospheric conditions. These dropsuits could be made of pure morphite or zydrine for all we know... that would certainly cost a pretty penny... Not in the quantities we're talking. Morphite is currently selling at roughly 5000 isk per unit and Zydrine at around 500 isk per unit (and these are eve isk, not dust isk) a T1 frigate takes roughly 2-20 zydrine and no Morphite. Morphite starts getting used for T2 ships and a T2 frigate doesn't take more than about 50 units of Morphite. Scale that down to dropsuits and one dropsuit would take a small fraction of a single unit of each. Even if it was pure Morphite, A dropsuit would not cost more than a couple of isk.
Even though the frigate uses 50 morphite, it's also using hundreds of thousands of units of trit and pyerite, etc.
if a dropsuit took 50 units of morphite per suit, how long before the whole market for morphite crashes?
Ideally though we would use a new mineral, maybe something obtain only through eve dust interaction. |
Teilka Darkmist
306
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 07:33:00 -
[104] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Vrain Matari wrote: And here i thought the refine value if a suit would be determined by it's mineral inputs.
Maybe you got a nice perpetual motion machine you wanna try and sell us while you're at it?
When you look at the fairly small mineral amounts a frigate takes, and realise that it costs 100-200 thousand isk for a T1 hull, then scale down to a single dropsuit, Iron Wolf Saber's estimate of how little they'd cost may actually be on the high side. Most likely, a Blueprint in eve wouldn't be able to make less than 100 or possibly 1000 (or maybe more) dropsuits due to the small mineral costs per suit. What kind of minerals are dropsuits made from though? Keeping in mind that tritanium is not stable in atmospheric conditions. These dropsuits could be made of pure morphite or zydrine for all we know... that would certainly cost a pretty penny... Not in the quantities we're talking. Morphite is currently selling at roughly 5000 isk per unit and Zydrine at around 500 isk per unit (and these are eve isk, not dust isk) a T1 frigate takes roughly 2-20 zydrine and no Morphite. Morphite starts getting used for T2 ships and a T2 frigate doesn't take more than about 50 units of Morphite. Scale that down to dropsuits and one dropsuit would take a small fraction of a single unit of each. Even if it was pure Morphite, A dropsuit would not cost more than a couple of isk. Even though the frigate uses 50 morphite, it's also using hundreds of thousands of units of trit and pyerite, etc. if a dropsuit took 50 units of morphite per suit, how long before the whole market for morphite crashes? Ideally though we would use a new mineral, maybe something obtain only through eve dust interaction.
All I'm saying is that whatever minerals dropsuits use, the mineral cost of a single dropsuit will be at most in the tens of isk for an eve player. And since it's unlikely that CCP are going to add manufacturing to Dust, if/when dropsuits become player creatable, it will be eve industrialists making them. Then prices of suits, and all other gear, will plummet and the dust players who already have billions of isk will essentially have an unlimited supply of protos, even if isk rewards are removed from the game entirely.
Woman.
Sniper, but from near the opponent's redline more often than not.
Not a KDR Worshipper.
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Yan Darn
Science For Death
720
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 08:08:00 -
[105] - Quote
This is a good thread with lots of interesting ideas, but there is too much strawman - Tiercide is not a magic bullet, it is just one of many things that would likely need doing to make this game less boring.
There are lots of things that need attention in DUST - while Tiercide seems out of place now with limited content and game options, unless this game wants to stay a grindy lobby shooter (aka COD with levels), then the current tier system causes unecessary disruption - not least for CCPs balancing.
Current situation for me: 25mil+SP, 250mil ISK (no PC/Corp ISK). I've only ever had point in Gal Scout.
I have two fits for my proto scout one Ewar based one Speed Based. Both mostly proto everything (Ironically - It is less fitting intensive to brick tank a scout than speed tank a scout but whatever...).
I've maxed out relavent mods and that's it. Not a lot I can do. No real reason to use those lower suits now - might as well pretend they don't exist.
Imagined Tiercide Situaition [DISCLAIMER: Numbers kinda pulled out of my arse and this is just one example/interpretation].
I spent my first 15milSP or so improving my 'basic' scout frame (similar to proto scout - no cloak bonus). I invested ewar skills and speed skills (so I use Higher level Kin Cats etc.) I like both - now I'm looking at 't2' Variants. They are like x10 the ISK, but:
One has great sensor range/precision and has a bonus to fitting cloaks! It has less EHP and limited PG/CPU (So I kinda have to use that second slot for cloaks anyway) - but it's ok, I'm specialising.
The other has better speed/stamina and bonus to fitting 'section 8 style turbo sprint device', it sacrifices some sensor range and precision and again some fitting over the basic scout - but it's ok, it's specialised.
Id have reason to use all three, with ISK being the least decisive factor. My SP will always give my 'basic' Scout an advantage over new players.
It's just that new player won't be thinking 'so in this game I can look forward to doing exactly what I'm doing now...just better...which is good for...being better than the new players after me...?'
The Ghost of Bravo
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14409
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Posted - 2014.04.29 08:15:00 -
[106] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another fantasy to break is how cheap your suits would be if they where player provided.
we're talking 10 isk, not 10 hundred, 10 thousand or million; just 10 a pop. Unpopular ones will dip further and may become refine fodder; the specialists would likely gain most popularity capping at 1k a piece. And here i thought the refine value if a suit would be determined by it's mineral inputs. Maybe you got a nice perpetual motion machine you wanna try and sell us while you're at it? Suppliers always keep a stock of an item, if an item becomes too unpopular, the supplier/producer will refine the spares to make room for the new popular item.
Stoll doesnt help auto targeters...
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
2468
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 08:19:00 -
[107] - Quote
First step is to remove the high SP requirements and prices for proto dropsuits TBH. Module costs should be increased however to make the cost for current proto users normalized to the price we can see today (100k-200k ISK per fully fit suit).
I hope this kind of solution is presented at fanfest.
HTFU Gė£ Live with CCP´s mistakes.
"I tried so hard and got so far.... but in the end it doesnt even matter."
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
427
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Posted - 2014.04.29 11:54:00 -
[108] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:First step is to remove the high SP requirements and prices for proto dropsuits TBH. Module costs should be increased however to make the cost for current proto users normalized to the price we can see today (100k-200k ISK per fully fit suit).
I hope this kind of solution is presented at fanfest (in the progression presentation).
This is exactly the kind of 'idea' that would kill the player base.
IWS wants to know how Eve sponsored matches will be, with nearly unlimited ISK, and I will tell you...not that much different. The reason to wear standard will be ISK or SP limitations, with some level of pride/indignation factor that discourages wasteful or excessive spending. It's hard to know how much Eve isk will make it to Dust, it doesn't matter that much in FW. I have many thousands of proto suits, about 4 thousand, and I still worry about going isk negative.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
3504
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Posted - 2014.04.29 12:03:00 -
[109] - Quote
OP is spot on
Tiercide is **** for vehicles tbh |
Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
427
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 12:12:00 -
[110] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:First step is to remove the high SP requirements and prices for proto dropsuits TBH. Module costs should be increased however to make the cost for current proto users normalized to the price we can see today (100k-200k ISK per fully fit suit).
I hope this kind of solution is presented at fanfest (in the progression presentation).
Ok, well, maybe not 'kill' the player base, but it would be lame. We would have to look at the HP values to guess if it was a n00b, instead of looking for MLT and STD. Further, this idea wouldn't solve any problems. We would still have people who were rich in complex armor plates.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
427
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Posted - 2014.04.29 12:15:00 -
[111] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another fantasy to break is how cheap your suits would be if they where player provided.
we're talking 10 isk, not 10 hundred, 10 thousand or million; just 10 a pop. Unpopular ones will dip further and may become refine fodder; the specialists would likely gain most popularity capping at 1k a piece. And here i thought the refine value if a suit would be determined by it's mineral inputs. Maybe you got a nice perpetual motion machine you wanna try and sell us while you're at it? Suppliers always keep a stock of an item, if an item becomes too unpopular, the supplier/producer will refine the spares to make room for the new popular item. Still doesnt help auto targeters...
Auto targeters are for ISK farming PvE carebears...we don't lose many of our Golems.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
427
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Posted - 2014.04.29 12:28:00 -
[112] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Or the harsh reality
Eve corp doesn't give a flying eff because if experience has taught them anything is that utterly crushing your opponent massively does save isk in the end. Losing a single fight can unravel an entire alliance and would rather not risk it and by doing so would embolden the enemy.
Don't forget the Eve vets who might have 3 accounts and who might have started saving ISK when Dust was first announced...that person may have renamed his Orca "Dust Fund".
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1258
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Posted - 2014.04.29 12:30:00 -
[113] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS There is no good solution to the BPO dilemma that tiericide would create.
There Is No Matchmaking in Dust (tm) nor has there been and Tiericide will not accomplish it either.
However, silver bullets and blue sky dreaming can accomplish ... well, nothing actually. Although that has never stopped CCP/Shanghai from going down bizarre paths nor CCP from promising features in Dust that are still not delivered years later.
Fanfest is nearly upon us so expect more undelivered dreams, silver bullets that will not fire (like rail gun turrets) and nothing mentioned at all about fixing bugs or making Dust more stable.
And so it goes.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
942
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Posted - 2014.04.29 12:32:00 -
[114] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Let me throw a curveball at you then.
You have infinite isk and SP
Justify not using prototype gear. Assuming the economy is in full swing and PC gets fixed, ISK. ISK will justify not using pro gear like we see now. Imagine paying ten million ISK for a proto setup. Edit: one more thing. If the economy and of is fixed, no one will have infinite ISK. That doesn't answer the hypothetical which is regardless a highly possible situation without the artificiality. Infinite isk and more SP than that suit can ever use in any type of situation Justify not using prototype. Then no one can justify not using proto in that situation. This is why fixing PC is important first and foremost to address the infinite ISK problem in addition to dealing with alt-recycling exploiters.
Fixing PC solves nothing in that regard by now. CCP let this crap happen for too long now the damage is already done. The only way to fix this would be to a) remove any form of passive ISK income and b) remove all that ISK from dust.
While a) may be possible for CCP they surely won't do b).
So the billions and more of ISK are still there and will stay there for quite some time. Even if CCP would raise proto gear to astronomical prices the corps that farmed HUGE amounts of isk would still be able to run Proto for ages but at the same time the average player would not be able to afford a single death in proto. Sio this schange would make thing even worse for a long time.
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
427
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Posted - 2014.04.29 14:03:00 -
[115] - Quote
Tiericide is a worthless idea in all of it's forms, with the dubious goal of making it easier on new players (it can't), or gifting the 'gifted' FPS elite skilled players an opportunity to win without all the complicated issues associated with resource management or SP grinding *sarcasm. IWS wants to promote unique roles instead of actually improving stats for SP and ISK investment. That's bad. Nobody wants to grind SP just to unlock new roles, like AV or Sniper. The end result will be no different than what we have now in terms of n00bs getting stomped. Cheap and easy may work at attracting more CoD n00bs, but the long term health of Dust would be compromised.
CCP could tie MERC asset production to PI. A new resource chain and dropsuit fabrication facility, along with tight ISK exchange control (like it is now), could preserve some semblance of resource scarcity in Dust 514. The real shakeup will come some day, and I doubt the unified market transition will be smooth, and I expect price and supply volatility, so stock up while you can.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
427
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Posted - 2014.04.29 17:53:00 -
[116] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Vell0cet wrote:NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS There is no good solution to the BPO dilemma that tiericide would create.
There Is No Matchmaking in Dust (tm) nor has there been and Tiericide will not accomplish it either. However, silver bullets and blue sky dreaming can accomplish ... well, nothing actually. Although that has never stopped CCP/Shanghai from going down bizarre paths nor CCP from promising features in Dust that are still not delivered years later. Fanfest is nearly upon us so expect more undelivered dreams, silver bullets that will not fire (like rail gun turrets) and nothing mentioned at all about fixing bugs or making Dust more stable.
I know you have been working on your grumpy persona, but fixing bugs and improving the experience is always important, and goes without saying.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
668
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Posted - 2014.04.29 21:06:00 -
[117] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:OP is spot on
Tiercide is **** for vehicles tbh IKR
Just the fact that there as so many limitations now , not that is was so great before because Anti-vehicle dominated ( Sorry , since this has become a Eve discussion .. basically ) but with some thought what was then .. could have been now but with more balance , they didn't have to break the vehicle's down so much as seeing that balance wasn't that far off , from looking at how it is now .. that with a few adjustments it would have been perfect .
SP would have mattered because they actually meant something not just unlocking an item . I believe that was the most efficient skill tree then , even more than the actual drop suits , the vehicle skill tree was something to behold and it gave some of the best performance values .
I didn't feel like I wasted a SP besides the fact that some of the mods like the shield rechargers didn't preform well . There were a few mods that some just didn't use but there were so many choices that it was just great and they wouldn't have had to do much but fix some of the mods , balance out the anti-vehicle weapon's and bring back the PRO vehicle's . The mechanic's were off on some of the mods and if they could have made adjustments on the mods , you had different turrets that performed different functions ... .. oh it was beautiful .
I miss that so much and this change was there actual chance to implement tiericide into the vehicle's and I just can't like it even though I specked back into vehicle's . Looking at the numbers ( what so many like to throw around ) I didn't like it and knew there were going to be some complaints and not because that's the nature of the community .
I lost some respect there just by the way , like the infantry refund .. that was handled .
Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
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Marc Rime
381
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Posted - 2014.04.29 22:24:00 -
[118] - Quote
I approve of this thread. |
Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2102
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Posted - 2014.04.29 22:37:00 -
[119] - Quote
Faquira Bleuetta wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:1: tech levels aren't the same as tiers. and by saying what you just said, you made the tier system sound even worse; we have both the tech levels, which gets better as you go up, and then there is tiers, which gets better as you go up, so a PROTO tech 2 (say a Assault), is much more superior than a STD medium. This just closes the gap. Also, although it is true that for the same role, a tech 2 is better than a tech 1, that doesn't mean that it's overall better.
2: Your solutions for thing could just as easily go a opposite way and be actually good. For instance, your idea with AUR things. look at League of Legends. You can buy the same legend with a different skins. People Do that. A lot. All CCP has to do is make a lot of neat skins, or even sell us the ability to make our own skins, which they could turn into BPO's. Speaking of BPO's, all they would have to do is turn the BPO's into whatever the original item was equivalent (say the Dragonfly Scout G-I into the Dragonfly Scout G-whatever), and then turn it into a EVE style BPO, where we would just buy the materials off the market, put it into a production line, and make the items.
3: Although you're right about the last two points, they don't cover the full effect of why a lot of people, including most if not all of the current CPM doesn't like it. I can't speak for everyone, but I'll explain why both of those are not completely right:
For the NPE one, you discuss PROTO stomping. PROTO stomping doesn't have to be just against noobs. say one guy doesn't feel like using PROTO gear or is saving up because he doesn't have a ISK farm. Then comes the douche who only runs PROTO gear. They face off, and even though the guy in the STD gear might be better, he lost due to the worse gear. That is not fair, and shouldn't happen. Under a tiercide dust, the guy might have won.
For the economy one, as I said, the ISK farm people won't give a single ****. They got ISK to burn, so losing a truck load or two in a match doesn't matter to them, as they know they will never run out.
gay -1
I dare you to made a actual argument against me. Don't be a homophobic douche.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2104
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Posted - 2014.04.29 22:41:00 -
[120] - Quote
I have yet to see a argument to say that tiercide in whole is not needed, nor will I doubt I will ever see one.
Just to let you fools who think it doesn't work, as I said, look at one of the most successful games around, and one of the most balanced ones at the same time atm, League of Legends.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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