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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
775
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Posted - 2014.04.14 16:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Outlaw OneZero wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land?
This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing. Honestly, if you want more fights you need to lower the cost of clone packs not raise it. If you increase payouts, remove passive ISK generation and reduce clone pack costs then you'll see a lot more people fighting in PC. You can't have the per clone cost in a clone pack be less than the payout for biomass. If you do you end up with people clone pack attacking in order to kill the clone pack and make ISK.
I strongly support the idea of removing passive ISK generation.
The concept of reducing the cost of clone packs IMO would result in much larger participation in PC. The 36million is just too much when it takes multiple packs. You have a valid point about the biomass to price issue. Right now it's 36 million ISK to about 28million payout I believe. I wonder if there's a good way to reduce the cost without having this issue... no quick fixes jump to mind at the moment though.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
775
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Posted - 2014.04.14 16:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Maybe for a while the reward should just be having your corp's name on the deed until something better is worked out. Let the ownership just be bragging rights or some other thing that doesn't discourage players from playing. I will think more about it but it is a very difficult situation. The potential problem I see is this change goes in and then we end up with no one wanting land. I'm not sure if prestige is enough.
Well, we've had it pumping ISK out forever, I'd rather try the other side of the coin and see what happens.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
775
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Posted - 2014.04.14 16:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Kain Spero wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Maybe for a while the reward should just be having your corp's name on the deed until something better is worked out. Let the ownership just be bragging rights or some other thing that doesn't discourage players from playing. I will think more about it but it is a very difficult situation. The potential problem I see is this change goes in and then we end up with no one wanting land. I'm not sure if prestige is enough. Well, we've had it pumping ISK out forever, I'd rather try the other side of the coin and see what happens. We have had the other side of it in open beta when there was no isk from PC (you actually had to pay it). If only winning a match gives you isk its bad. Not to mention most isk rewards dont cover the cost of what you lost. Tankers would be screwed and so would ADS pilots. I fly ADS and use 250k suits in PC and have lost isk in 4 of the last 8 I played in. My concern is the vast majority if people just want to punish the PC corps for farming and can't see that passive isk only thing going right now. The issue is not passive isk its economies of scale in which a small group of players can hold many districts. This is how players are becoming rich. I would rather this be addressed and leave the isk out of it for now. Its hard to focus on whats really wrong with PC when the whole lot is a piece of ****.
Fair points; but the ISK for clone sales is WAY to much. If it can't be 0 it needs to be severely reduced. Honestly any reduction helps. I still feel it should be 0.
I feel your pain though and have lost a lot of ISK personally when you loose PC's, which even if it happens 50% of the time* you'll probably loose out if you're running really good gear.
* no clue on our win ratio just using 50% as an example :)
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
777
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Posted - 2014.04.14 19:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Guys, just to be clear again we are likely looking on only being able to get simple number changes to what we currently have. Right now the current potential numbers floating are as follows:
Plan One: Passive Reduction
*Greatly reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) and increase Biomass price: something like 40-60k clone sale and 160-180k biomass
Plan Two: Passive Elimination
*Reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) to effectively 0 and double biomass price to 200-210k
Paired with both these plans would be a clone pack size increase to 150 clones at a cost of 300k per clone to prevent self-attacks for locking or ISK farming by killing the clone pack.
*******
While I hate passive ISK, my concern is still that eliminating it may lead to negative effects on participation in PC.
The side benefit of turning off passive ISK all together is that it could allow a new region to be opened up without the concern of passive ISK bleeding into the Dust economy from the PC system on an even larger scale.
Plan Two is the better option of the two you have listed IMO.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
777
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 19:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Levithunder wrote:Kain Spero wrote:I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land?
This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing. The way it is now: 36 million for a clone pack 10 million isk made by selling extra clones What it should be: 1-5million for clone pack District generates 1-2million daily *PC shouldn't be about the corperations losses or gains the corperation shouldn't be like "well we can't do PC because its 40 kagiillion isk!" There should be cheap battles for corps so people can do what they want which is to fight. The losses and gains should be more concerning to the player not the corp, if ccp listens to your half brained idea then not only will people who have never done it won't want to spend 40 million isk to fight but veteran corps will be unwilling to pay to reattack lost districts I mean which do you prefer BROKEN OR A DEAD game mode ? OR someone could listen to my idea for once and everyone would win new players and old players.
I like this. I agree the main reason corps don't participate is it costs to much for a clone pack UNLESS you're farming ISK in PC already, in which case you don't need clone packs.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
778
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Posted - 2014.04.15 04:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:In fact, $80M is too low. The reason that CCP reduced the number of clones in the pack is because they wanted to limit the clone pack attacks. I agree with their intention but instead of nerfing the number of clones, they should have just raised the price. $120M for 200 clones sounds about right....$120M - $150M or so.
I can't disagree more. PC would be more dead than it is now. If clone packs were cheap (10 mil) there would be fighting. You'd need to be in a god mode donut for 4 or 5 months to afford 120 mil clone packs.
Did you see my post earlier saying 10 million for a clone pack? Once again we are on the same page.
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