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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
37
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Posted - 2014.04.07 00:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Don't know if I'm right or not.
Or if anything I'm bout to propose can be done on the ps3 (as I think no new patch will install new income or player bases into dust unless it is a patch to switch the game to ps4, where everything CCP does is not "can we do that?", but with the new, 10 YEARS NEWER TECHNOLOGY becomes "When can we do that"?)
But being in and out of a few wars and being a mercenary for a few,
The problem is that the top 20 players of a CORPORATION gets to play in PC. (20 being your 16 a-team plus your guys you switchin wwhen your A-team players are out)
9 PLAYERS in baseball is a TEAM.
11 PLAYERS in football is a TEAM.
16 PLAYERS in Dust is a TEAM.
And yet, CORPORATIONS who go to war with over 300 players in their ranks and can play 40+ PCs a day with only their best 16...
I'm sorry but this just doesn't sit well with me.
When we think of corporations, we think of big businesses with big pay checks and lots of logistics and a lot of people to run it.
And typically, the biggest corporations have the most power and influence.
Yet, in Dust, the signal of power and influence is PC essentially, and has time after time been ruled and taken over by corporations with minimum amounts of players. Case in point 0.H., TP, Escrow, IMPs, synergy, AE, Paradox, Nyain San, etc. All corps with under 100, most even under 50 active players that are continually overtaking corps with hundreds of active players that participate in PC.
Thus I propose
1.Any person that is not in a corp that a PC has started between (escrow and AE are in a pc against one another and TP shows up for Escrow, TP players are not listed as a starter or defender of the battle), once they (TP) enter the battle, an automatic tax is taken out of said corp with ringers (in this instance escrow), of 1-5 mil isk per merc. If corp isk cannot provide proper tax payment, mercenaries are kicked from game immediately (to prevent emptying corp wallets before PCs) This is to promote the bettering of your own corpmates to fight instead of using petty money for a ringer to continually carry your team in PC over and over against those that don't wish to pay, but would rather use their own players to win. Alliance members should get %50 off merc tax if a player coming in is in their alliance. You will see why this is important next.
2.All dust players are given an timer, either from the time their PC starts or ends, that extends anywhere from 30minutes till 2 hours. Until this timer ends, said individual will not be able to re-enter a PC.
A. This will allow a corps best 16 to still play but if an enemy has launched multiple attacks within a few hours span, will now make "A-teamers" sit out a few PCs that now must be filled with either ringers or more hopefully, non A-team players from a corp and Thus puts more emphasis on recruiting players thus gets more players involved with PC thus gets more players on DUST thus gets more income to CCP thus creates more competition as poaching players when you have the best 16 in the game isn't necessary yet if you have say 50 freiken districts you now need the best 100 in the game to defend those districts so the amount of districts you own no longer correlates to how good your team is but how good your CORPORATION is which increases logistics in DUST which increases meta game which turns dust BACK from uprising now and back to uprising in the beginning where spies were everywhere, everyone was your enemy and your friend, and things were just more betta. (Wholly grammar batman)
But here's an example : Corp A has 2 districts and 56 players that they are defending with timers 1 hour apart. Timer is setto 50 minutes after PC starts (this is to account for warbarge time).Corp As A team of 16 plays and defends district 1, and then in 50 minutes all go into second PC to defend second district. But wait? Only 16 players total got to play in both PCs. This is okay as 16 players is nearly 1\3 of corporation A total player base. Meaning a lot of their players got to play.
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
37
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Posted - 2014.04.07 00:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
To mean no disrespect kane to you or your alliance, but now let's bring your own corp into this conversation Kane as by your own words and AE and everyone else's in the big blue donut that you own as much as you do in Molden Heath to "break PC and DEMAND CCPs attention" , and to "prevent this sort of thing from ever happening again." In doing this I have sought out the single biggest flaw in the big blue donut, and in ignoring this we now know the true intentions of the donut are to farm isk and live on top...OR KANE SPERROW you are really here to fix PC.
Escrow Removal and Acquisition has 62 districts and 45 players. For the next few days, furious under appreciated corps that were kicked out of PC conspire to Blitz Escrows 0,1,2,3,4 timers, in which 75% of escrows timers occur. With escrows current roster of elite players, they will only be able to field 15 semi full battles in this time period, of which 62x75%= 47-15=32 battles that cannot be defended by escrow. This MEANS that if merc tax is employed at 2 million per merc (which I believe is quite reasonable) it will cost Escrow 1,024,000,000 ISK in taxes (that are properly applied because Escrow does not have the players to field battles for all of their districts and should have to pay for it as do all other corps) to field full alliance or merc teams to field their 32 other battles. PER DAY.
What this means!
BOOM! UNLESS a corp has the logistical skills to organize dozens of merc squads and teams a day at different times (which they won't) AND have the isk to pay taxes for all mercs (which most don't), THEN corps no longer will be able to control PC territory outside the extent of the amount of active players AND organization they have.
BAM! Corps will be run more like corporations instead of teams of elite players just getting together and smashing the weaker 16. Leadership roles will be extended to players to help manage the chaos instead of small corps at this point only needing a CEO and that's it. This will mean that ALL members of a corp are now useful and none are to be unappreciated because a 7 mil sp logi filling a spot in your PC is better than wasting countless time and a 2 mil tax on top of payment for a merc to fill your battles.
SNAP! We all talk about how we want dust and competition to grow, yet we snarf and proto stomp at people not up to skill or sp as us and never recruit them so they feel alienated and quit dust before they can become proper competition. Now EVERYONE is an asset and this will make smaller elite corps that want to hold more districts than 4 or 5 have to begin recruiting, thus making the worker bees work, Dust all of a sudden wakes up. Corps begin recruiting and holding meetings, new players start to get involved. Old players come back to see what the buzz is about, its a win win.
MOAR PC. Now that 1 corporation cannot hold 60 districts to themselves, alliances and different corp start coming together to mass attack high district owners, taking districts away and spreading them out amongst the cosmos, also leaving many new problems to arise such as "Do I attack this 13:45 timer and send my A team to flip it? Or do I send my A team to our 14:20 timer do defend it?" You no longer can defend both with the same 16 BC they are within an hour of each other. Now everyone has 4-15 districts that they can affectively defend/pay ringers for and the completion begins to see who can set up their districts the best to own the most.
ROAR! No more stacking timers. Nyain San has done this for enough time and exploited this idea for much too long with 63 districts all on the samePC timer. With 124 players and 63 battles in one hour, the most NS could possibly keep after 1 day is 15 districts MAX if all blitzed. No offense to them but stacking is an exploit that they are using and all but them complain about, yet they continue to sit back and farm.
NO MORE ALIENATION! Many people have left and quit dust because they are not considered the "A-team" how many times have you gotten teams ready just to have your A team, players A-P (1-16) ready, and players S, V, and X pipe up and say, "Can I play PC? Can I get in? Do you need me?" In which most times your going against the best in Molden Heath so the answer is either "No your not good enough", or " no maybe next time". In which there is no next time. This alienates players and makes them feel under appreciated and leave dust or just turn into a casual "I play dust once a week or so" player. This happened to me personally in both 0uter.Heaven AND D3lta Forc3 , into which d3lta forc3 was dismantled from 1000 players to 100 in less than 2 weeks and 0.H. From 50 to 20 in a week.
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
37
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Posted - 2014.04.07 00:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
WE GET BETTER! What many of us don't realize is that PC isn't broken like it used to be where 3 fps is the norm and everything glitches. As of 1.8 PC (for the most part) has become stable. People left DUST because we all realized the best 40 is better than a good 400. That we could make more money off of owning 10 districts than a %10 tax. That we could alienate everyone that isn't as good as us and still win and be successful. And in doing so WE broke dust. We all did. You can blame CCP all you want to for this or that. But when it boils down to it bf4 launched ****** and with a bad build and glitches in their PUB matches, and dust did the same thing, glitchy and bad builds. Yet CCP continually works to fix their mistakes which takes months, and battlefield did the same. And in this time we lose hundreds of players, while battlefield gains tens of thousands. Why? CCP can be blamed, but we all share this blame. We are the ones who stacked timers, we are the ones who locked districts, we are the ones who gave up on PC and then decided to take it all. CCP laid out a foundation and we trolled our d*cks all over it and we broke it, and now dust is dying because of what we have done, and ccps slow attempts at fixing it. Now is the time to reciprocate what we have done and fix it before dust bleeds out. Which could be right after fan fest if things don't change.
Bump or quote this with all of your critiques. I know its long, but all good plans are.
I don't mean to attend any corporations with this, its just that escrow, NS, and even my own 0.h. Presented meaningful examples for my purposes.
This isn't perfect, but its a start. And if you are serious about making DUST and PC better which is your job as CPM you will read and critique this Kain. As a CPM and a player, putting your professional opinion first. Getting more people involved with PC is whats wrong with PC as thousands of players do not get the luxury to enjoy PC as many of us get to everyday.
Fix PC, build dust. Build dust, build money. Build money, move to ps4. Move to ps4, possibilities for new weapons, vehicles, maps, gamemodes, features, EvE integration are endless...
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
39
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Posted - 2014.04.07 03:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
[quote=Kain spero Im sorry but any idea to limit freedom of association artificially control relationships between Dusters is just silly. Also arbitrarily forcing a player to not play as much PC as they want is bad design and bad game mechanics.
Again the idea is to improve planetary conquest for everyone not have arbitrary ideas that you feel can counter players playing the game how they choose to.[/quote]
And yet simple PC and handheld free to play games have been using the "you can't play as much as you want" design for decades.
And that is why people stack money into such games.
PLENTY of the MMOs on any device you find now are "do whatever you want up to a certain point" games.
Such as build up your army a little and you can attack 10 other armies. Good now that you've attacked, you need to wait 10 minutes for one attack turn, and can accumulate up to 15. Want to attack now? Pay $1.00 for 15 immediate attack turns.
This has been the business model of all free to plays since windows 98, and yet you say to me that every game like this since the beginning has been wrong? And yet many of these have hundreds of thousands of daily players.
So you know **** these hundreds of thousands of people right? What do the games they play know about keeping them around? by the way and I hear hundreds of ideas daily on how to fix dust and PC and you aren't "fixing" anything by making clone packs cheaper, or having more clones in them, if its still only gonna be the same 16 using those clones packs all damn day everyday while everyone else rots in pub matches all day.
"Again the idea is to improve planetary conquest for Everyone"
And yet all these ideas that are being put in the air is STILL for the top 16 of every corp to compete, and no one else. You all do PC so you are all biased. I am a A-teamer, have been since Chromosome, and so I had to take a step back onto my brothers 7 mil sp apt account to fully understand and not be biased towards this argument.
I'm fairly new to dust, not many friends, no corp. Go into 5 pubs, 3 amb 1 skirm and 1 Dom by myself.
In ambush my team gets raided first by proto Nyain San, Proto AE Kallente and Marauder, and then by Proto Ahrendee.
Lost all 3 battles 58 clones to 180. Total
Only guy on my team to not go even in all 3.
Dom 26-6 with a loss.
Skirm 31-8 with a loss.
All in basic gear.
Okay let's join a corp to help me so I can squad up with people. I want to get into a PC corp so I can train for this new thing I've heard of called PC.
Send an application to Nyain San. Denied.
Send an application to AE. Denied
Send an application to escrow. Denied.
Oh but those are pretty much the only PC corps I see.
Oh wait onslaught inc, they have a district!
Alright guys I'm ready for PC!
"Sorry we already have our 16".
But I wanna play...
" You can't play you don't have enough sp."
Even though at this point I'm doing better than their full proto A reamers in pubs.
So theoretically if you had 2 PCs at the same time could I play PC?
"No lol, we would put in a few B teamers and pay mercs to fill the rest of the spots."
So when will I have enough SP to get into PC?
"WELL, drop a few months of sp with boosters and we will see."
Bam, boom done, a few months of playtime just to get into end-game? This isn't an MMORPG. I don't see any PvE, I don't see any NPCs to talk to. I don't see any dungeons or anything really, I just see months of pub training JUST to build up the sp to afford a proto suit and proto gear just to be PC ready. And that's not counting the experience and knowledge I don't have of pc and current PC A teamers do. So psshhhhh, I'm gone bro see ya. And dust loses another player.
Until you find a potential way for non A teamers to consistently be viably looked at for PC, everyone who is NOT A team will eventually leave dust at the expectancy to never see the light of PC. In my proposal, I give you both. A teamers can still play all the PCs, just set your districts to 1 in every 23 eve timer and only have 23 districts. (Seems like a pretty damn reasonable number of districts) Also, if you wish to take more than 23 effectively, and stack timers reliably without having to pay taxes for ringers, you allow in B teams or C teams into your corps allowing those players to grow with you, allowing your corporation to grow, allowing Dust to grow.
Give me a downside to this or two and I will stop my brain from flowing.
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
51
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Posted - 2014.04.11 03:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
All this input is great and all
But say we implement all the good ideas to fix PC
The big blue donut dies
multiple corps come back into PC
YET
Every day, at a battle timer, its STILL going to be the top 20 AE, Paradox, Nyain San, Molon, STB, Fatal abs, What the French etc. Playing all the PC all day long everyday.
Only the top 16-20 players of corps get to play PC. Which is maybe 5%-10% of the DUST active population while the other 35% or so of daily players are proto PC ready and have to sit on the sidelines and never get any experience. The SAME players playing PC now are the same ones playing PC 4 months ago with the exception of new corps and specially gifted players.
This is a problem of PC, and Dust as well as the vets get more and more and everyone else stales out.
These players shouldn't be forced to play PC ,but veterans SHOULD NOT be allowed to hog DUSTs endgame to themselves every day while other descent to great corpmates sit in corp chat listening to PCs they won't be given an opportunity to fight, as every PC you need the absolute best 16, when corp power should be determined by not only small groups of quality, but also large groups of quantity like EvE .
Fix PC involvement } Fix PC } Fix the veteran to noob ratio } Increase Dust funding from participation and competition } Increase Output from CCP } Dust grows } Dust and PC fixed
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
52
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Posted - 2014.04.11 09:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:@CHANCEtheChAn - these are the easy fixes that can be hotfixed in to deal with some of the glaring problems with PC1.0 -youll be only bandaids until PC2.0 comes along. You can not fix the problem of accessibility and low participation with a hotfix - that will only be possible with a whole new update, which could still be months away.
The problem with accessibility is much easier than you may think
So is low participation
Which I've stated fully in an overly long post a few pages earlier
Everyone wants a shot at DNS and PC but
A. Besides Outer.Heaven and maybe one or two other corps, Nearly every corp in the game not with DNS does not have a 16 man A team that can compete with say an NS A-team or an AE A-team.
Molden Heath is like 716243536383826 districts total, 245 of which are open, and you say ONLY a 16 player team is needed to control this whole star system?
BROKEN
1. 16 player team, not even necessarily in the same corp can hold all of Molden heath with no penalty for not being in the same corp or alliance
Thus by this logic, why even have over 1 man corps, when that 1 man can bring in full teams of 15 for his PCs and those 15 don't have to pay taxes and just make a chat channel for you all to congregate?
SOLUTION
A. Limits to PC playability. You can literally go from one end of the universe to the other in one push of a button to protect your districts in PC or pubs. Pubs are of little significance where you go but PC is big significance. That's why I believe limits must be set on players playing PC over and over and over just like there are limits on the amount of players in a PC. EvE you can go anywhere you want and do things as much as you want, but takes time to reach your destination. While dust you can be anywhere you want to be, yet should be limited by the amount of things you can do. Thus a timer, or counter needs to be added, a simple UI addition to your neocom, that starts or subtracts as soon as you enter into a PC (AFTER 10 minute Warbarge) that counts a stock -1 or starts a timer (I've calculated a 50:00 timer) that counts down to 0 or 00:00, and until hitting 0 you may not enter another PC.
"This is limitating player playability blah blah blah " if this is your argument you are forgetting this is a FREE TO PLAY. FREE TO PLAYS being the Montra of waiting for things. But if desired, an AURUM pack can be bought that would allow you 1 extra stock or instantly reduce your timer to 00:00 once activated thus allowing you to jump back into PC immediately. Think of the income CCP. Re up attacks are now moved 50 minutes apart rather than 5. Also if you want to go the lore route, Pub matches are NPC Controlled thus use huge, highly advanced tech to send your consciousness flying across space to fight pubs, while in PC your tech is corp owned thus smaller and less advanced to save money and resources and take more time to send you across the universe or time limit is a safety precaution that an aurum bought key card would allow you to bypass.
Mmmm aurum, CCP
Mmmm facing different players than the same 16 day after day after day after first attack
Mmmm rethinking of how to set your district timers
Mmmm blitzing and zerging is now viable
Mmmm getting your logistics in order
Mmmm getting off your ass to recruit to make sure you are now AT LEAST 3 teams deep in the PC ready department if you want Molden heath all to yourself
Less 16 player TEAM domination-More CORP and ALLIANCE domination-More DUST action and involvement from everyone-more people get to PC-More people come back to Dust-Dust gets more crowded and commited-Dust competition and strategy grows-More CCP money-More CCP involvement-MOAR DUST-Everybody wins
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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CHANCEtheChAn
0uter.Heaven
53
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Posted - 2014.04.11 10:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
SIMPLE HOTFIX CODING
Never worked with a complex game engine like Unreal before (Oh yeah, so complex with its dollar tree price tag I'm sure)
BUT
Here goes the simple string theory
TIMER
(Battle is created, battle is stamped)
(Que for PC battle commences)
Check for individual player timer >= 00.00
If yes proceed
If not yes, kick player from squad and que {allowing rest of squad to continue in if in squad with more than him/herself}
(Enter warbarge)
(10:00 WB timer begins)
(10:00 WB timer ends)
(Warbarge timer expires)
(Player timer is set from =<00:00 to =50:00)
(PC begins)
If player is in battle he is battle stamped
(Player leaves battle)
(Player reenters battle que)
Check player battle stamp
If battle stamp match
If yes proceed player into battle {prevent DC mishaps}
If no proceed player into battle, player becomes stamped, player timer is set from =<00:00 to = 50:00
(Battle ends)
(Payout is given)
I did timer as a scenario so that it does not limit the player as much as a stock timer would.
A stock timer would only allow you to play a set number of PCs a day, which I believe is and should be discouraged by everyone.
I believe a timer is a lot more forgiving because:
1. Theoretically a 16 player TEAM could hold 23 districts with the same 16 players. 1 district timer per 23 hours server uptime which I think is plenty of districts for a TEAM let alone an Alliance or Corp to hold.
2. Theoretically Allows the individual player to play up to 23 PCS a day, which if you ask ANYONE who has done this before that 23 PCs is overkill itself.
3. Theoretically Allows small elite corps at being effective at holding small number of districts effectively with just their A teams, while allowing bigger corporations to cover more Districts effectively equivilant to their size. Example: Corp A has 32 members active (without counting alliance and ringers) thus will theoretically be able to hold 8-10 districts effectively ( accounting for 2, 16 man teams per hour for the 4-5 hour a night that is "Primetime" for most corps). While corp B has 160 active players (not counting ringers or alliance) and thus theoretically be able to hold 40-50 districts during primetime hours. (Of course saying all players are of a high skill set)
Of course this is all theoretical but it works
We are running corporations not clans
In real life and EvE the bigger your corporation size, the bigger your potential for growth and covering all your basis
This would also align dust to be more theoretically true
While we know it won't be because of differing player skills and play times etc. this allows more PC involvement for all and makes PC more than just "you 16 go here and you 16 go there", over and over.
Quote and comment everyone's thoughts
I'm open to suggestion and critique
Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
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