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Will Railguns ever be fixed?

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Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:25:00 - [1] - Quote Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Jason Pearson 4022	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:26:00 - [2] - Quote They're not broken.. :P King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 358	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:27:00 - [3] - Quote Fly fast, pray, and if that doesn't work ram your dropship down the barrel of that railgun. Don't look him in the eye, WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!!!
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 358	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:28:00 - [4] - Quote Do a barrel roll or backflip they usually miss when your inverted. Don't look him in the eye, WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!!!
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:28:00 - [5] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: They're not broken.. ....says the tanker :P Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 151	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:28:00 - [6] - Quote What's your solution for fixing railguns, OP? DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:29:00 - [7] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Fly fast, pray, and if that doesn't work ram your dropship down the barrel of that railgun. I'm not ramming my Incubus into their barrel. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3656	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:29:00 - [8] - Quote Railguns are 'fine'. Get Better. Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:30:00 - [9] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: What's your solution for fixing railguns, OP? Either a fix to range or damage. Any other ideas would be helpful. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Jason Pearson 4023	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:30:00 - [10] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: They're not broken.. ....says the tanker :P tbf I raged out at Maras for being a **** and rolling around in my redline with one, just pulled the plug on my PS3 and have been here reading GoT since.. -¼_-¼ King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar

NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 10	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:31:00 - [11] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Do a barrel roll or backflip they usually miss when your inverted. I two shotted a python with a mlt railgun today
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3656	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:32:00 - [12] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: What's your solution for fixing railguns, OP? Either a fix to range or damage. Any other ideas would be helpful. I think damage mods are the real problem. Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
The Attorney General 1793	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:33:00 - [13] - Quote It's a combo of rate of fire, damage mods, and a magazine that is about 4 shots too big. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:34:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: What's your solution for fixing railguns, OP? Either a fix to range or damage. Any other ideas would be helpful. I think damage mods are the real problem. Nope, the alpha damage is way too high. My Derpship has about 3600 HP and a Standard Railgun does 1450 Damage. Add proficiency and you're ******. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 144	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:34:00 - [15] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Do a barrel roll This sounds...familiar
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3656	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:35:00 - [16] - Quote Decrease the heat sink by a good 2 shots, and reduce damage mod bonuses by about 5%. Add fall-off damage to prevent redline abuse. Profit. Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4069	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:35:00 - [17] - Quote I'd say the magazine along with RoF is a good reason it's a bit much.
The Attorney General 1793	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:35:00 - [18] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Nope, the alpha damage is way too high. My Derpship has about 3600 HP and a Standard Railgun does 1450 Damage. Add proficiency and you're ******. There is no proficiency anymore. Damages are as listed, until damage mods get slapped on. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Jason Pearson 4023	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:36:00 - [19] - Quote Seriously, Rails need to be either slow hitting, high damage, or fast hitting, low damage weapons. By low damage I mean lower than it is now, but something stupid. Someone told me rails are decent speed weapons in EVE, with Artillery being heavy hitting and slow, we need it like this. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:37:00 - [20] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Nope, the alpha damage is way too high. My Derpship has about 3600 HP and a Standard Railgun does 1450 Damage. Add proficiency and you're ******. There is no proficiency anymore. Damages are as listed, until damage mods get slapped on. There isn't? edit: Oh I see that's for rotation speed Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3657	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:38:00 - [21] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Nope, the alpha damage is way too high. My Derpship has about 3600 HP and a Standard Railgun does 1450 Damage. Add proficiency and you're ******. Err not quite. Proficiency skill on turrets only increases the rotation speed on the turrets. Not increase how much damage it does. Though, I think Alldin Kan made a thread about how damage mods were broken. Too bad I forgot to put it in my favorites. While railguns are a bit broken, keep in mind that they are supposed to demolish vehicles. Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 359	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:38:00 - [22] - Quote NK Scout wrote: PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Do a barrel roll or backflip they usually miss when your inverted. I two shotted a python with a mlt railgun today That's why I said usually. Don't look him in the eye, WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!!! I specialize in ridiculousness.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 472	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:38:00 - [23] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Why accuse railguns of anything? This is clearly a case of the transport dropships not having enough HP. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:39:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Nope, the alpha damage is way too high. My Derpship has about 3600 HP and a Standard Railgun does 1450 Damage. Add proficiency and you're ******. Err not quite. Proficiency skill on turrets only increases the rotation speed on the turrets. Not increase how much damage it does. Though, I think Alldin Kan made a thread about how damage mods were broken. Too bad I forgot to put it in my favorites. While railguns are a bit broken, keep in mind that they are supposed to demolish vehicles. Well then they far excel their job. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 52	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:40:00 - [25] - Quote I don't think they are completely broken, but I agree with the OP. I don't have enough time to react. With the low POV angle, you can't always keep awareness of where tanks are and when they are called in. Few ADS can affront a tank, but being able to take an extra shot or two would be better. I don't want to be king of the air, but to lose so much isk so quickly and to be unable to respond (in the case of redline tankers and rail turrets) is frustrating and diminishes player experience. Most hits are so strong that a hardener has a lot less effectiveness, and that's only after one hit, the next may be lethal. I try to be as careful as possible and fly high or stay covered, but I would be interested in seeing a weapon resistance of a DS to a rail. Like I said though, I still want to be ale to be downed, but two shots?! Come on, isk doesn't grow on trees, especially for a transport pilot like myself. FAME
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:40:00 - [26] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: What's your solution for fixing railguns, OP? Either a fix to range or damage. Any other ideas would be helpful. Slight rof nerf Reduce damage by 100 or 200 Reuce range to 500m Damage falloff at 200m or less Atleast 100 damage and damage falloff need to be in the list Also slightly less elevation
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:41:00 - [27] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Why accuse railguns of anything? This is clearly a case of the transport dropships not having enough HP. Because Railguns have a range as big as the entire map and alpha damage big enough to take my derpship to half HP. The HP is fine IMO, seems pretty balanced with active mods. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1604	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:43:00 - [28] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. If you remove rails then Assault dropships will become the new terror. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 488	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:43:00 - [29] - Quote To be fair, since I don't redline snipe, assault dropships who avoid my second shot have a tendency to make my life a living hell, as repayment. It's like Hitchcock's The Birds. Getting hunted down and pecked to death. Unable to fight back, desperately looking for some cover, cursing yourself for not having a nitro. That's how it should be! Playing without risk is boring.
The Attorney General 1793	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:44:00 - [30] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Why accuse railguns of anything? This is clearly a case of the transport dropships not having enough HP. Not really. Like Jason said, a triple damage modded rail, the favourite of scrub redliners everywhere is doing3600 dmg pershot, with a shot ever 1.7 seconds, with 5 before an overheat. In 5 seconds, a tank can output 17k in damage, while a forge can only do 4k. That is a bit much of a disparity to try and balance a dropship for surviving against. When you add in that that tank can either stack plates, go plates and a big repper, or hardener and a big repper, or shield hardener, armor hardener and heavy armor rep with two damage mods that shows how oddly balanced the vehicles are. What I used to think was by design, the lack of gun depression on the Caldari tanks, looks like they are going to fix it, so expect madrugars to go out of service very quickly after that change goes through. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.

Jason Pearson 4023	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:45:00 - [31] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Also slightly less elevation Your entire post went from decent to bad in just four words.. How do you feel? King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:46:00 - [32] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. If you remove rails then Assault dropships will become the new terror. No because swarms will get buffed, assault dropships run after 1 shot without hardener so.... And if anything assault dropships need a base 15& resistance to everything
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3657	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:49:00 - [33] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Well then they far excel their job. That's the point. Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play. This is how a niche should perform. Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 53	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:51:00 - [34] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Why accuse railguns of anything? This is clearly a case of the transport dropships not having enough HP. I think this is the best point, we don't need much. I like tanks and their battles, except when one team has none, then it sucks. But just being able to take a little bit more from a rail would be nice, but then this pushes swarms even farther down the list. FAME
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 53	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:53:00 - [35] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Well then they far excel their job. That's the point. Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play. This is how a niche should perform. Since when were tanks meant to fight aerial vehicles with a rail turret? Surface to air missiles sure, but we are talking long range projectile that seems to be an AV for land vehicles. Make rails harder to kill a DS and the missile turret better. FAME
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:55:00 - [36] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Well then they far excel their job. That's the point. Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play. This is how a niche should perform. Where exactly do railguns fail? Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4039	Posted - 2014.01.19 06:57:00 - [37] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: To be fair, since I don't redline snipe, assault dropships who avoid my second shot have a tendency to make my life a living hell, as repayment. It's like Hitchcock's The Birds. Getting hunted down and pecked to death. Unable to fight back, desperately looking for some cover, cursing yourself for not having a nitro. That's how it should be! Playing without risk is boring. So redline is now added to the list of problems. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
GVGMODE WorstPlayersEver 104	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:02:00 - [38] - Quote Rail turrets seem to be doing a good job at their role which is anti vehicle, if such turret effectiveness was to be decrease we would have the ADS not only controlling the air but the ground as nothing would stop them from bringing their fury into the poor infantry. A very simple ADS fit can easily sustain a constant stream of swarms without any problem and forge gunners are more than likely to give up due to the constant missed shots against a decent ADS pilot. The problem is the way modules work, I suggest nerfing each tier of damage mods. In the mean time I am still trying to skill into proto small missile turrets. :)
GVGMODE WorstPlayersEver 104	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:03:00 - [39] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Well then they far excel their job. That's the point. Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play. This is how a niche should perform. Where exactly do railguns fail? Anti-Infantry
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3657	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:05:00 - [40] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Where exactly do railguns fail? Railguns are at an extreme disadvantage against infantry, just like other forms of AV. Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.

GVGMODE WorstPlayersEver 104	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:08:00 - [41] - Quote A rail vs infantry is like using a plasma cannon against a player at he top of a building... Lol
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 53	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:08:00 - [42] - Quote Any tips of a good ADS evasion of proto forge? I usually run advanced gear on my python, I think I have an enhanced heavy shield extender too. But I have a problem of surviving. I run a single hardener and a turbo, but after the first hit the second is usually fatal, even with a Hardener on. Do I just need more sp invested to survive or any evasion tips? FAME
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 441	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:08:00 - [43] - Quote Gotta keep moving, rails are rewarded for just holding R1 and letting her rip. But they don't get a lot of adjustment time between shots that way. If you can get them to let go of R1 the discharge delay should be enough to get away. I'd like to fly more myself but too often Ifind myself in a rail tank to take out the other rails that would otherwise shoot me down. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 441	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:14:00 - [44] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Any tips of a good ADS evasion of proto forge? I usually run advanced gear on my python, I think I have an enhanced heavy shield extender too. But I have a problem of surviving. I run a single hardener and a turbo, but after the first hit the second is usually fatal, even with a Hardener on. Do I just need more sp invested to survive or any evasion tips? I'd still like to see the forge gun projectile move slower. They get this huge reticule and do near instant damage once it's red. Not plasma cannon slow or anything just something to separate it from the rail turrets, after all it is infantry wielded, there has to be some draw back. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:16:00 - [45] - Quote GVGMODE wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Well then they far excel their job. That's the point. Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play. This is how a niche should perform. Where exactly do railguns fail? Anti-Infantry 20 kills in an ambush, all infantry
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 834	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:23:00 - [46] - Quote Railguns can get fixed once hardeners are fixed. Last thing dust needs is who has the biggest baddest or most blaster tanks and ADS's having auto win buttons without contest. Again, railguns are the one thing stopping tank514 from being absolute. And attack dropship spam is included in tank514. That's "MR." Pothead to you.
Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Legacy Rising 11	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:29:00 - [47] - Quote Atiim wrote: Add fall-off damage to prevent redline abuse. It's an 80 GJ railgun. For those of us not gifted in garblespeak, that means it fires a projectile with 80 gigajoules kinetic energy. That's a staggering number. A 1 kg mass travelling at Mach 10 carries 4.5 megajoules of kinetic energy. 80 gigajoules is more than 17000 times that, so it ought to be moving about 400 km/s. That's faster than the shuttle orbits at. That's like nineteen tonnes of TNT going off in your face. tl;dr there's no reason for the railgun to not be a hitscan weapon that blinds everybody with white hot plasma vapour trails.
Cedric Reeg Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 9	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:30:00 - [48] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Nope, the alpha damage is way too high. My Derpship has about 3600 HP and a Standard Railgun does 1450 Damage. Add proficiency and you're ******. Err not quite. Proficiency skill on turrets only increases the rotation speed on the turrets. Not increase how much damage it does. Though, I think Alldin Kan made a thread about how damage mods were broken. Too bad I forgot to put it in my favorites. While railguns are a bit broken, keep in mind that they are supposed to demolish vehicles. Well then they far excel their job. A Sica/Gunnlogi with 2-3xDMG Mods is built to wreck any/all vehicles that get caught and stay in it's sights. The same tank is also called a -Glass Cannon- and has MUCH less bite with those mods on CD. Not to mention it has poor EHP and a sitting duck for other tanks. Perhaps even the Assault Dropship that then flies over to the tank and proceeds pop proto-grade missiles for at best a Shooting Range target in difficulty. Quack Quack. Dropships that "deserve" to live are those that utilize cover to evade such firepower. Moving in open sky is not cover and just comes down to can you fly sporadically enough till the clip is empty or the gun overheats. Tank drivers almost always get killed with their tank, dropship pilots rarely do.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 53	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:31:00 - [49] - Quote Tank514 does exist on smaller maps. I have seen it on large too, but yea, a single rail on your team can start to turn the tide. But how many tankers are out there? We were all supposed to find a role and work it, does CCP really expect us to have it all sp'd out. There are not enough tankers to fight all of the tankers, as they usually run in squads and are not as dispersed. FAME
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 558	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:31:00 - [50] - Quote Using a blaster as AV, you need AT LEAST 2 overheats(or close to OH's if you're food) to kill a tank. Rails can kill in 3 shots, 2 with 1 damage mod, or 5 if they're twin hardened. That's 1 OH. A rail needs to OH at 3 shots, and have RoF halved. Make a faster variant with 800 damage, and current RoF. Tl:dr make it take longer than 1/3 of an OH to kill a tank CCP.(oh and give us passive damage mods.) Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.

Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 53	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:37:00 - [51] - Quote I use to fly low, 1-4 m off the ground. That is death now. One hit and you will have nowhere to go. There are plenty of stationary turrets that are a threat and yea cover can work, but it is super risky. As tanks can easily flank your position and if you try to fly anywhere remotely "safe" way up in the sky you will not make it. Also, forge gun? A DS can not stay low for long. Quick swoops and corner flanking are best to minimize getting swatted. FAME
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 53	Posted - 2014.01.19 07:39:00 - [52] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Using a blaster as AV, you need AT LEAST 2 overheats(or close to OH's if you're food) to kill a tank. Rails can kill in 3 shots, 2 with 1 damage mod, or 5 if they're twin hardened. That's 1 OH. A rail needs to OH at 3 shots, and have RoF halved. Make a faster variant with 800 damage, and current RoF. Tl:dr make it take longer than 1/3 of an OH to kill a tank CCP.(oh and give us passive damage mods.) Slower ROF and you will never end a redline tanker. FAME
Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 488	Posted - 2014.01.19 08:24:00 - [53] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: So redline is now added to the list of problems. Red lining is the problem with Rail tanks. The only counter is another red line tank. Best weapon in the game for a keyboard and mouse sniper, bar none.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 487	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:20:00 - [54] - Quote Reduce rail turret's ability to look up. Increase missile turret's ability to look up.
Rusty Shallows 836	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:33:00 - [55] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Why accuse railguns of anything? This is clearly a case of the transport dropships not having enough HP. CPM pushed for an HP buff not too long ago. It really isn't an option now with the last round of senseless nerfing. If CCP really wants to helps Dropships they need to lower Large Rail muzzle velocity down to forge guns. Also giving them the blue ball so pilots have a chance to spot misses and react accordingly. MCC Lounge Lizard Forums > Game Fix the game CCP
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 13	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:36:00 - [56] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Railguns can get fixed once hardeners are fixed. Last thing dust needs is who has the biggest baddest or most blaster tanks and ADS's having auto win buttons without contest. Again, railguns are the one thing stopping tank514 from being absolute. And attack dropship spam is included in tank514. Lol anyone who spams ads has 0 isk, they are very very expensive and forge guns wreck them if they are not moving
Blaze Ashra DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 139	Posted - 2014.01.19 11:35:00 - [57] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. If you remove rails then Assault dropships will become the new terror. Don't worry about that. The cost, skill required, forges, kamekazi, RDV, stupid collision and knockback, every installation and tank, explosions, null cannons other assault dropships and everything else kind of makes it unprofitable. Look, I know you love your compensation cannon but it sucks being insta gibbed. Seriously, if were just going to allow insta gibbing then swarms need to be brought up to 400 per missile at minimum seeing as how they were the only thing keeping tanks in check. ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
Blaze Ashra DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 139	Posted - 2014.01.19 11:49:00 - [58] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Where exactly do railguns fail? Railguns are at an extreme disadvantage against infantry, just like other forms of AV. That's bull. When i was starting out I had to snipe. Anyone who knows to press R3, has 60k isk and knows how to snipe can do just as well or better with a militia rail gun than a thales, while also being able to farm installations and vehicles in 2 - 4 shots. ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
Blaze Ashra DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 139	Posted - 2014.01.19 12:06:00 - [59] - Quote Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote: Any tips of a good ADS evasion of proto forge? I usually run advanced gear on my python, I think I have an enhanced heavy shield extender too. But I have a problem of surviving. I run a single hardener and a turbo, but after the first hit the second is usually fatal, even with a Hardener on. Do I just need more sp invested to survive or any evasion tips? My best python fit is: 2 x Complex shield hardeners 1 x Complex after burner 1 x Enhanced missile expansion 1 x XT missiles Basically use hit an run tactics. Survey the perimiter for rail tanks and work your way in. If you see a blob of reds and it looks clear hit your first hardener and go to town. When the third tick is gone hit your second hardener. When the first tick is down to 3 hit your after burner fly to the cieling and circle the perimiter to check for tanks. Wait for cool down and do it again from a different direction. Dodging forges you have to know where they're at so you follow the shots and try to look for the blue glow. Then you keep facing them and try to manuver and switch it up. If you have both hardeners going you can try to kill them but you have to bail when the first hardener is at 3 ticks. ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 229	Posted - 2014.01.19 12:12:00 - [60] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Nope, the alpha damage is way too high. My Derpship has about 3600 HP and a Standard Railgun does 1450 Damage. Add proficiency and you're ******. Err not quite. Proficiency skill on turrets only increases the rotation speed on the turrets. Not increase how much damage it does. Though, I think Alldin Kan made a thread about how damage mods were broken. Too bad I forgot to put it in my favorites. While railguns are a bit broken, keep in mind that they are supposed to demolish vehicles. AV is also supposed to demolish vehicles War never changes

demonkiller 12 G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 339	Posted - 2014.01.19 12:12:00 - [61] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: They're not broken.. :P but theyre not, its just damage mods dont have a stacking penalty as i understand, really thought they are huge weapons they should do maybe a bit more damage but have WAY slower rate of fire, or maybe do damage to the tank the more you fire while getting closer to overheating no they shouldnt be able to fire superfast because thats eve and we're in the future, if it were like that the madrugar should be unkillable up close with a super turret and a full flight of attack drones to control
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1672	Posted - 2014.01.19 12:14:00 - [62] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Squad............ with............... a................... head explodes I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 137	Posted - 2014.01.19 12:17:00 - [63] - Quote Only thing I am concerned about is if the rail alpha damage or rate of fire is nerfed now, and in a couple years the proto hulls are released, there won't be a counter to some blaster builds being god mode. These are now proto turrets vs standard hulls ( in tank vs tank )
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 889	Posted - 2014.01.19 12:18:00 - [64] - Quote rail guns need some fine tuning but the biggest problem is that they are being used from the red line most of the time. I havent been shot down by any tanker that is not in the redline where they can stack damage mods without fear of being killed, Plasma Cannon Advocate For every niche there is a Rifle
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1534	Posted - 2014.01.19 12:18:00 - [65] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: They're not broken.. :P but theyre not, its just damage mods dont have a stacking penalty as i understand, really thought they are huge weapons they should do maybe a bit more damage but have WAY slower rate of fire, or maybe do damage to the tank the more you fire while getting closer to overheating no they shouldnt be able to fire superfast because thats eve and we're in the future, if it were like that the madrugar should be unkillable up close with a super turret and a full flight of attack drones to control I havent had much problems with dammage stacked rails tbh as I norm run with 2 hardners and 1 dmg mod as it allows me to abzorb allot of dammage aswell as returning fire.. remember it takes 2 dammage mods to override 1 hardner also most dammage stacked havs cannot withstand return fire as the will have little fitted in the way of defensive mods Lohark will confirm this as his double dammage modded gunlogi has melted about 70% of the times hes met my doubke hardner single dmg mod fit. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Slim Winning BIG BAD W0LVES 20	Posted - 2014.01.19 12:30:00 - [66] - Quote Rails got caught in a snag. Tankers actually didn't consider the railgun when they complained for their buff. With 40% and 60% hardeners, what did you expect? Railguns are used for AV mainly so they needed a crazy buff to deal with the hardeners. Nobody complained about rails in 1.6 because it was a classic case of only focusing on what your weaknesses as a player were and expecting CCP to fix them for you. It was mainly blaster tankers that complained. They just wanted an easy-button to mow down infantry with and got mad when the infantry pulled out AV to fight back. You could build Rail tanks in 1.6 that could explode tanks into pieces in 1-2 shots, but tankers didn't care to use them, they wanted their easy-button blaster turrets. They never could see the big picture for tanks, AV, all vehicles, and the game as a whole... You hate rail guns? Blame the crybaby tankers that couldn't deal with the fact that they only wanted them to be all powerful, but nothing else. Tankers hate anything that can outplay them, but don't say a word when they have obvious advantages. Tankers now tell AV to "get good"... but pre-1.7, if you told them "get good" they backlashed with excuses. Now you can pop a tank with a militia rail and they complain more because they think nothing should ever counter them, ever. And Dropships get caught in the crossfire because tankers never looked at the big picture.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4046	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:38:00 - [67] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Where exactly do railguns fail? Railguns are at an extreme disadvantage against infantry, just like other forms of AV. Not really a problem when you're sitting in the redline. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4046	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:43:00 - [68] - Quote Cedric Reeg wrote: A Sica/Gunnlogi with 2-3xDMG Mods is built to wreck any/all vehicles that get caught and stay in it's sights. The same tank is also called a -Glass Cannon- and has MUCH less bite with those mods on CD. Not to mention it has poor EHP and a sitting duck for other tanks. Perhaps even the Assault Dropship that then flies over to the tank and proceeds pop proto-grade missiles for at best a Shooting Range target in difficulty. Quack Quack. Dropships that "deserve" to live are those that utilize cover to evade such firepower. Moving in open sky is not cover and just comes down to can you fly sporadically enough till the clip is empty or the gun overheats. Tank drivers almost always get killed with their tank, dropship pilots rarely do. Are we playing the same game? I'm talking about anything with a Railgun. My particular case was two Particle Cannon tankers shooting me out of the sky before I can even realize it. Half the match they were sitting in the redline. If I'd known they were there, there still would've been no way to take one of them out, as it would take most of my redline time just to get to them. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1261	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:54:00 - [69] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Where exactly do railguns fail? Railguns are at an extreme disadvantage against infantry, just like other forms of AV. I can still go a good 10-0 vs. Infantry, a good game and some tank destructions 16-20/0 Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 865	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:04:00 - [70] - Quote Railgun is nothing.... I'd be more worried about Minmatar Artillery Cannons... OR Amarrian Beam Laser turret's shooting one consistent beam at the dropship.

Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1261	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:07:00 - [71] - Quote Slim Winning wrote: Rails got caught in a snag. Tankers actually didn't consider the railgun when they complained for their buff. With 40% and 60% hardeners, what did you expect? Railguns are used for AV mainly so they needed a crazy buff to deal with the hardeners. Nobody complained about rails in 1.6 because it was a classic case of only focusing on what your weaknesses as a player were and expecting CCP to fix them for you. It was mainly blaster tankers that complained. They just wanted an easy-button to mow down infantry with and got mad when the infantry pulled out AV to fight back. You could build Rail tanks in 1.6 that could explode tanks into pieces in 1-2 shots, but tankers didn't care to use them, they wanted their easy-button blaster turrets. They never could see the big picture for tanks, AV, all vehicles, and the game as a whole... You hate rail guns? Blame the crybaby tankers that couldn't deal with the fact that they only wanted them to be all powerful, but nothing else. Tankers hate anything that can outplay them, but don't say a word when they have obvious advantages. Tankers now tell AV to "get good"... but pre-1.7, if you told them "get good" they backlashed with excuses. Now you can pop a tank with a militia rail and they complain more because they think nothing should ever counter them, ever. And Dropships get caught in the crossfire because tankers never looked at the big picture. lolololololololol with 2 damage mods it took 11 proto railgun shots to kill me with 5 it might take 10 or 9 but still no way did you 2 shot any tank in 1.6. Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4046	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:07:00 - [72] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Railgun is nothing.... I'd be more worried about Minmatar Artillery Cannons... OR Amarrian Beam Laser turret's shooting one consistent beam at the dropship. Look how long it took for us to get racial heavies and scouts, you really think CCP will get us that stuff any time soon? Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3668	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:10:00 - [73] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Bethhy wrote: Railgun is nothing.... I'd be more worried about Minmatar Artillery Cannons... OR Amarrian Beam Laser turret's shooting one consistent beam at the dropship. Look how long it took for us to get racial heavies and scouts, you really think CCP will get us that stuff any time soon? They always get stuff in SoonGäó Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1265	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:11:00 - [74] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Squad............ with............... a................... head explodes He...........Was but I could not find and kill the tank in the time it took for him to fire 2 shots, I did kill the Particle accelerator Twice and the Aurum tank/turret Particle cannon twice though I died three times because if there was a moment I was in a bad position with a hardener down or right after killing an enemy tank he would swoop in. Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4050	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:14:00 - [75] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Squad............ with............... a................... head explodes He...........Was but I could not find and kill the tank in the time it took for him to fire 2 shots, I did kill the Particle accelerator Twice and the Aurum tank/turret Particle cannon twice though I died three times because if there was a moment I was in a bad position with a hardener down or right after killing an enemy tank he would swoop in. I remember that, I saw you take that Soma when you had your hardener on and then that Madrugar swooped right in while your hardener was down Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3668	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:15:00 - [76] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Where exactly do railguns fail? Railguns are at an extreme disadvantage against infantry, just like other forms of AV. I can still go a good 10-0 vs. Infantry, a good game and some tank destructions 16-20/0 I've also gone 16/2 with nothing but a Swarm a few months ago. I didn't say it was impossible, but you'd be a fool to disagree that they are at a disadvantage in terms of killing infantry; especially when compared to 80GJ Blasters. Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1271	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:18:00 - [77] - Quote Cedric Reeg wrote: Dropships that "deserve" to live are those that utilize cover to evade such firepower. Moving in open sky is not cover .... What are you talking about? Cover? Lets looks at that shall we......Border Gulch. The red zone is the airspace above 20 meters and up to 382 meters that a rail tank parked at the yellow dot can hit. All maps are like this. There is a tiny bit of cover at best and when actually doing a dropships job there is effectively none. Range from the redline? This is a death at 624 meters from a tank 130 metres into the redline. How about elevation? Fine is it? Look at the green. At 566 meters away you can hit a dropship too meters into the air. What does the world look like to us at 200 m? This. Or in words a tiny spec below that we can not even attempt to interfere with. Before you condemn Dropships or their pilots you need to ensure you really grasp the issues they face. Rails need a balance pass. There are good reasons why. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3668	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:19:00 - [78] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Where exactly do railguns fail? Railguns are at an extreme disadvantage against infantry, just like other forms of AV. Not really a problem when you're sitting in the redline. That's why we need fall-off damage. If you realize that your bullets aren't doing damage, how long would it be before you stop firing at nothing and get out the redline? I'd say 175m is perfect for the Railgun. After that, you do reduced damage similar to the effective and optimal ranges on infantry weapons. Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3668	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:23:00 - [79] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Only thing I am concerned about is if the rail alpha damage or rate of fire is nerfed now, and in a couple years the proto hulls are released, there won't be a counter to some blaster builds being god mode. These are now proto turrets vs standard hulls ( in tank vs tank ) I highly doubt that there will ever be ADV and PRO hulls. If CCP ever adds anymore hulls; it will most likely be specialized hulls like pre 1.7's Enforcers were. Kill 1 and 7 more come right back. Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies. Although, that would explain a lot.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 475	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:24:00 - [80] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Only thing I am concerned about is if the rail alpha damage or rate of fire is nerfed now, and in a couple years the proto hulls are released, there won't be a counter to some blaster builds being god mode. These are now proto turrets vs standard hulls ( in tank vs tank ) Proto hulls?... Last I heard hulls are supposed to become specialized, not proto'd. edit Looks up one post Har looks like I were aforn-ted whilst I bees typing! AVast ye! If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming

Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 114	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:40:00 - [81] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Cedric Reeg wrote: Dropships that "deserve" to live are those that utilize cover to evade such firepower. Moving in open sky is not cover .... What are you talking about? Cover? Lets looks at that shall we......Border Gulch. The red zone is the airspace above 20 meters and up to 382 meters that a rail tank parked at the yellow dot can hit. All maps are like this. There is a tiny bit of cover at best and when actually doing a dropships job there is effectively none. Range from the redline? This is a death at 624 meters from a tank 130 metres into the redline. How about elevation? Fine is it? Look at the green. At 566 meters away you can hit a dropship 200meters into the air. What does the world look like to us at 200 m? This. Or in words a tiny spec below that we can not even attempt to interfere with. What do we look to a tank at 450 meters? Big and easy to hit. Before you condemn Dropships or their pilots you need to ensure you really grasp the issues they face. Rails need a balance pass. There are good reasons why. Many base our opinions on the matter on solid and careful analysis. We are not just making stuff up. You have been Judged So what would you like to see done to railguns then Judge? Or do you see it more as a issue with map construction? Personally I think all maps should be no smaller than the Impact Ridge map. The redline is limited to 50 meters deep and five spawn locations are spread out over your half of the map, result is a redline you cannot hide in but would be difficult or impossible to camp due to size.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1274	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:47:00 - [82] - Quote See we need long range rails, but the maps are a bit small and I just don't think the developers have the resources to address the maps at this stage. The maps are the main issue. But they exist and they are all we have.. I don't want to nerf rails. Without them dropships are missing a counter and tanks are likely to feel less fear. The big issue is the redline. If they are forced out then pilots and infantry can send other tanks or AV players to go sort them out. So We need to look to realistic fixes that the developers can do until such time can be found to sort the redline and the maps. I would limit the elevation. MAYBE as far as down to 14 degrees. This is to balance against dropships. At 14 degrees they could hit a dropship that was 100m up from 300 meters away. Remember rails are balanced against tanks so leaving them their power but stopping them swatting a dropship with ease would stem some of the complaints. Dropships have swarms and forges to worry about too. A LONG video on this topic from me will be out on the 21st (2 days time) The script is 7000 words long. so the comments in this post are a rather abbreviated form of my solutions. Only the video will give the full picture. ROF seems a touch fast too. Might need to reign that back a bit. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Jason Pearson 4026	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:54:00 - [83] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: See we need long range rails, but the maps are a bit small and I just don't think the developers have the resources to address the maps at this stage. The maps are the main issue. But they exist and they are all we have.. I don't want to nerf rails. Without them dropships are missing a counter and tanks are likely to feel less fear. The big issue is the redline. If they are forced out then pilots and infantry can send other tanks or AV players to go sort them out. So We need to look to realistic fixes that the developers can do until such time can be found to sort the redline and the maps. I would limit the elevation. MAYBE as far as down to 14 degrees. This is to balance against dropships. At 14 degrees they could hit a dropship that was 100m up from 400 meters away Note that above 100 m we are next to being zero threat). Remember rails are balanced against tanks so leaving them their power but stopping them swatting a dropship with ease would stem some of the complaints. Dropships have swarms and forges to worry about too. A LONG video on this topic from me will be out on the 21st (2 days time) The script is 7000 words long. so the comments in this post are a rather abbreviated form of my solutions. Only the video will give the full picture. ROF seems a touch fast too. Might need to reign that back a bit. I want nothing done to elevation, without a red line the tanks die quickly with no chance to aim up, it's ***** stupid. Fix the red line, do not ** with the elevation, we need an increase tbf. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 114	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:00:00 - [84] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: I want nothing done to elevation, without a red line the tanks die quickly with no chance to aim up, it's ***** stupid. Fix the red line, do not ** with the elevation, we need an increase tbf. So tanks should have an increased ability to fight dropships because otherwise they actually might kill you. Would you like railgun rotation speed matched to a blaster too because clearly a blaster tank getting close enough to you where rotation speed is a problem for a rail tank obviously unfair. Don't blame the dropship for doing it's job correctly.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1277	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:02:00 - [85] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: I want nothing done to elevation, without a red line the tanks die quickly with no chance to aim up, it's ***** stupid. Fix the red line, do not ** with the elevation, we need an increase tbf. Support and explain this please. EDIT : For example a rail incubus will to 500 damage a shot or their abouts. How many would it take to kill your tank? not a redline fit all damage modded up but a fit to survive the field. Why should I not be able to kill you. You have 600m to see me coming and hit me. You have 4 times my damage output, you have 4 time my HP 2 time my fire rate and you are faster unless I am on an AB. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 60	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:02:00 - [86] - Quote DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! Lol, just wanted to do it. It's a tough problem to fix. FAME
Jason Pearson 4026	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:04:00 - [87] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: I want nothing done to elevation, without a red line the tanks die quickly with no chance to aim up, it's ***** stupid. Fix the red line, do not with the elevation, we need an increase tbf. So tanks should have an increased ability to fight dropships because otherwise they actually might kill you. Would you like railgun rotation speed matched to a blaster too because clearly a blaster tank getting close enough to you where rotation speed is a problem for a rail tank obviously unfair. Don't blame the dropship for doing it's job correctly. "Don't blame a dropship for doing it's job correctly." I don't see any troops dropping out of it, I don't see it transporting anyone, pretty sure the dropship is a TRANSPORT vehicle (which needs more HP btw). I'm not saying an Aerial Vehicle shouldn't have the advantage over a ground vehicle, it should, but people crying about the tanks elevation is *** ******, the only way I've been able to kil Assault Dropships recently is using the redline because otherwise I get done in, and my heavy gets two shotted by the missiles with no problem. But yeah, tanks are the OP things. suuuuure. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 60	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:04:00 - [88] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: I want nothing done to elevation, without a red line the tanks die quickly with no chance to aim up, it's ***** stupid. Fix the red line, do not ** with the elevation, we need an increase tbf. So tanks should have an increased ability to fight dropships because otherwise they actually might kill you. Would you like railgun rotation speed matched to a blaster too because clearly a blaster tank getting close enough to you where rotation speed is a problem for a rail tank obviously unfair. Don't blame the dropship for doing it's job correctly. I always thought that blaster tanks faired much better up close, and as a rail tanker if I couldn't kill the blaster before he got to me then he effectively countered me. FAME
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1278	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:10:00 - [89] - Quote I want to hear your view Jason, but you are shouting at us. Do you look at my elevation chart in the other post? Could you tell me what degree of elevation you think would keep tank vs dropship balance? For example does 14 degrees look to harsh? what about 20? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 60	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:10:00 - [90] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Texs Red wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: I want nothing done to elevation, without a red line the tanks die quickly with no chance to aim up, it's ***** stupid. Fix the red line, do not with the elevation, we need an increase tbf. So tanks should have an increased ability to fight dropships because otherwise they actually might kill you. Would you like railgun rotation speed matched to a blaster too because clearly a blaster tank getting close enough to you where rotation speed is a problem for a rail tank obviously unfair. Don't blame the dropship for doing it's job correctly. "Don't blame a dropship for doing it's job correctly." I don't see any troops dropping out of it, I don't see it transporting anyone, pretty sure the dropship is a TRANSPORT vehicle (which needs more HP btw). I'm not saying an Aerial Vehicle shouldn't have the advantage over a ground vehicle, it should, but people crying about the tanks elevation is *** ******, the only way I've been able to kil Assault Dropships recently is using the redline because otherwise I get done in, and my heavy gets two shotted by the missiles with no problem. But yeah, tanks are the OP things. suuuuure. I run transport, really it's all I want to do. But most of the time with uplink development I just sit up in the sky and wait, pulling any where from 300 to most games to 700 for a really active match. But I lose ships nearly every time. 60 percent forge, 20 percent tank, 20 percent ground turret. Low grade tanks and turrets take about 2-3 hits, will only a skilled prototype forge can get 2-3 hits. I run all advanced modules, and mlt gear can whip my ship and cost me any reward for just one death. FAME

Jason Pearson 4026	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:10:00 - [91] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: I want nothing done to elevation, without a red line the tanks die quickly with no chance to aim up, it's ***** stupid. Fix the red line, do not ** with the elevation, we need an increase tbf. Support and explain this please. Which bit do you want explained? The fact I cannot aim up unless I find a hill? Or the redline? My thoughts on it. Turn redzone into two different colours, your redzone is green and theirs is yellow. You can go into both, but when in the yellow area you are displayed to the enemy. Add pods that can be accessed from the MCC that can fire troops across the map Add a dropbay area for vehicles in the MCC Add MCC infantry cannons that can view the greenzone King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1278	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:19:00 - [92] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Which bit do you want explained? I edited the response to this while you were typing your reply. Also did you look at my elevation chart in the other post? Could you tell me what degree of elevation you think would keep tank vs dropship balance? For example does 14 degrees look to harsh? what about 20? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Jason Pearson 4026	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:26:00 - [93] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Support and explain this please. EDIT : For example a rail incubus will to 500 damage a shot or their abouts. How many would it take to kill your tank? not a redline fit all damage modded up but a fit to survive the field. Why should I not be able to kill you. You have 600m to see me coming and hit me. You have 4 times my damage output, you have 4 times my HP and 2 times my fire rate and you are faster unless I am on an AB. You can hide under structures and mount upward faceing small turrets. Seems there are many options to balance the engagement. Erm, two days ago I got utterly smashed by dropships in an ambush, I had my combat rail out (A fit for survivability) to kill the other tanks and the moment my hardeners went down, I died within 20 seconds to a single python. I've ran a Blaster fit in skirmish and been pinned at my ground spawn by a single rail incubus. You're not meant to go head on against a tank, rush it and hope to take the damage, you can fly up much higher than I can aim and the Incubus and the Python move faster than my rail tracks. My range and my damage is the only thing I can rely on, but if you're moving fast and above me? lol I'm a dead man. IF I have a small rail on my tank, I'm either using teamwork or I'm not in my main seat moving and using modules. What, you don't want me having a teammate firing at you? Get yourself a sidegun, that seems to work quite nicely too. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
Blaze Ashra DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:27:00 - [94] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: I want nothing done to elevation, without a red line the tanks die quickly with no chance to aim up, it's ***** stupid. Fix the red line, do not ** with the elevation, we need an increase tbf. Support and explain this please. Which bit do you want explained? The fact I cannot aim up unless I find a hill? Or the redline? My thoughts on it. Turn redzone into two different colours, your redzone is green and theirs is yellow. You can go into both, but when in the yellow area you are displayed to the enemy. Add pods that can be accessed from the MCC that can fire troops across the map Add a dropbay area for vehicles in the MCC Add MCC infantry cannons that can view the greenzone Got to admit that sounds like fun except for the infantry cannon thing because that would just be another 0 sp instagib for us. ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Legacy Rising 13	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:29:00 - [95] - Quote Hoover Damn wrote: tl;dr there's no reason for the railgun to not be a hitscan weapon that blinds everybody with white hot plasma vapour trails. I should add btw that I don't think it needs to be that for gameplay purposes. I just wish they'd call it something else at that rate. xD
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 60	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:29:00 - [96] - Quote I posted this the other day, and I feel it is relevant here. If we as players could change through a system how the game mechanics work, on average we could improve gear and balance much faster than CCP. Math would easily be able to eliminate outliers that are trying to troll or super buff/nerf gear. Seriously, I think a system like this can give players more reason to try to balance things themselves. I mean, who doesn't want a good fight? That's what the community wants, and they have the play time to see what works and what doesn't. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136617&find=unread This system would also be able to adapt much more quickly than waiting for patches and would give the game devs more time to work on the things we can't, like maps, suits, art, programming new things, etc. FAME
Jason Pearson 4026	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:30:00 - [97] - Quote Blaze Ashra wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: I want nothing done to elevation, without a red line the tanks die quickly with no chance to aim up, it's ***** stupid. Fix the red line, do not ** with the elevation, we need an increase tbf. Support and explain this please. Which bit do you want explained? The fact I cannot aim up unless I find a hill? Or the redline? My thoughts on it. Turn redzone into two different colours, your redzone is green and theirs is yellow. You can go into both, but when in the yellow area you are displayed to the enemy. Add pods that can be accessed from the MCC that can fire troops across the map Add a dropbay area for vehicles in the MCC Add MCC infantry cannons that can view the greenzone Got to admit that sounds like fun except for the infantry cannon thing because that would just be another 0 sp instagib for us. Infantry cannon would aim down and be like missiles or something, a slow firing with decent splash to hit infantry pushing the ground spawn. It'd have to be placed so it could not aim out of the greenzone. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1278	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:34:00 - [98] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: My range and my damage is the only thing I can rely on, but if you're moving fast and above me? lol I'm a dead man. Does that not seem like a balance? You have range and power, I do not. I have speed and Altitude; you do not. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 64	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:42:00 - [99] - Quote Transport DS do not have speed, and their role is not about having high altitude. Soooo..... FAME
Scott Knight Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 13	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:54:00 - [100] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Why accuse railguns of anything? This is clearly a case of the transport dropships not having enough HP. I second this.

Jason Pearson 4030	Posted - 2014.01.19 17:50:00 - [101] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: My range and my damage is the only thing I can rely on, but if you're moving fast and above me? lol I'm a dead man. Does that not seem like a balance? You have range and power, I do not. I have speed and Altitude; you do not. If it is balanced, then there is no need for change. You answered your own question as to why elevation should not be changed o7 King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1283	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:19:00 - [102] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: My range and my damage is the only thing I can rely on, but if you're moving fast and above me? lol I'm a dead man. Does that not seem like a balance? You have range and power, I do not. I have speed and Altitude; you do not. If it is balanced, then there is no need for change. You answered your own question as to why elevation should not be changed o7 If you are just going to be deliberately obtuse and dismissive and dodge the discussion then I am at a loss as how we can communicate on this to make sure all voices are heard. You know full well range and speed are variables and since we did not mention values no decision on whether to make a change or not can be made. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1656	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:41:00 - [103] - Quote I think nest fix is a 0.1s increase to fire rate interval. For now. Alpha and range are fine. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Jason Pearson 4030	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:53:00 - [104] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: My range and my damage is the only thing I can rely on, but if you're moving fast and above me? lol I'm a dead man. Does that not seem like a balance? You have range and power, I do not. I have speed and Altitude; you do not. If it is balanced, then there is no need for change. You answered your own question as to why elevation should not be changed o7 If you are just going to be deliberately obtuse and dismissive and dodge the discussion then I am at a loss as how we can communicate on this to make sure all voices are heard. You know full well range and speed are variables and since we did not mention values no decision on whether to make a change or not can be made. I'm not obtuse, I'm big boned. Look, the only fixes I see is fixing the redline, that's where we hear the most complaining and Dropship Pilots most common complaint is "I can't get to the railgun killing me in the redline", you can easily evade the range of the railgun, man I rarely fly anymore and yet when I did, I was hovering above a railgun who just kept ramming into walls trying to look up. I also believe Dropships should have more HP, not the Assault Dropship though. It is my view that a normal Dropship should be quite tanky, the Assault Dropship sacrifices its tankiness for the additional damage output and speed (Hey guys, let's lose the defense so we can go faster, aww yeaah! - Engineers working on Dropships) The rest is irrelevant until the redline is solved. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
Cedric Reeg Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 9	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:12:00 - [105] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Cedric Reeg wrote: A Sica/Gunnlogi with 2-3xDMG Mods is built to wreck any/all vehicles that get caught and stay in it's sights. The same tank is also called a -Glass Cannon- and has MUCH less bite with those mods on CD. Not to mention it has poor EHP and a sitting duck for other tanks. Perhaps even the Assault Dropship that then flies over to the tank and proceeds pop proto-grade missiles for at best a Shooting Range target in difficulty. Quack Quack. Dropships that "deserve" to live are those that utilize cover to evade such firepower. Moving in open sky is not cover and just comes down to can you fly sporadically enough till the clip is empty or the gun overheats. Tank drivers almost always get killed with their tank, dropship pilots rarely do. Are we playing the same game? I'm talking about anything with a Railgun. My particular case was two Particle Cannon tankers shooting me out of the sky before I can even realize it. Half the match they were sitting in the redline. If I'd known they were there, there still would've been no way to take one of them out, as it would take most of my redline time just to get to them. For the case you cited, you are being shot at by a gun that at it's base does 1885 damage per shot and you are being shot at by 2x of them. A gun designed to break any and all vehicles. It's no surprise to me as it's what counters my current tank fittings unless I try to rail gun snipe them. Even then I'm not garunteed to kill them as they can dodge it. AND for my trouble people send rage mails about it or rage on the forums how it's UNFAIR. Here is what I did as a tanker in training when I realize I was outmatched or shutdown by the opposing team, be it Jihad Jeeps, AV Infantry, or other (often better) tanks. I stopped using fittings that cost me 250k-434k per fit and went infantry. Soon I decided to put together fittings that cost 67k-150k cause I still wanted to tank and still make a profit. Nowadays I still do this. (Note this is all within PUBLIC matches.) If I run proto/expensive gear and vehicles in a PUBLIC match game and I die in it. Blame comes down to me first for RISKING it by calling it in. Not to blame my killer which is a rampant attitude on the forums.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4057	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:33:00 - [106] - Quote Cedric Reeg wrote: For the case you cited, you are being shot at by a gun that at it's base does 1885 damage per shot and you are being shot at by 2x of them. A gun designed to break any and all vehicles. It's no surprise to me as it's what counters my current tank fittings unless I try to rail gun snipe them. Even then I'm not garunteed to kill them as they can dodge it. AND for my trouble people send rage mails about it or rage on the forums how it's UNFAIR. Here is what I did as a tanker in training when I realize I was outmatched or shutdown by the opposing team, be it Jihad Jeeps, AV Infantry, or other (often better) tanks. I stopped using fittings that cost me 250k-434k per fit and went infantry. Soon I decided to put together fittings that cost 67k-150k cause I still wanted to tank and still make a profit. Nowadays I still do this. (Note this is all within PUBLIC matches.) If I run proto/expensive gear and vehicles in a PUBLIC match game and I die in it. Blame comes down to me first for RISKING it by calling it in. Not to blame my killer which is a rampant attitude on the forums. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm blaming the broken feature. No vehicle should be two shot. At all. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Cedric Reeg Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 9	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:50:00 - [107] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: I'm not blaming anyone, I'm blaming the broken feature. No vehicle should be two shot. At all. So should blaster turrets not 2shot infantry as well? That's the common gripe about it from the infantry angle. Blaster turrets too good at killing infantry, rail turrets to good at killing vehicles. Should we say the same for infantry? Should a HMG not kill a Scout in the time it takes to blink? It's not fair is it that someone gets killed that quickly.
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 64	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:31:00 - [108] - Quote Cedric Reeg wrote: Patrick57 wrote: I'm not blaming anyone, I'm blaming the broken feature. No vehicle should be two shot. At all. So should blaster turrets not 2shot infantry as well? That's the common gripe about it from the infantry angle. Blaster turrets too good at killing infantry, rail turrets to good at killing vehicles. Should we say the same for infantry? Should a HMG not kill a Scout in the time it takes to blink? It's not fair is it that someone gets killed that quickly. I think it's more like if I drive and LAV I don't mind getting blown up by a tank, because that is kinda what should happen (HMG > scout). It's more of an issue when certain roles don't have the efficacy that is represented. FAME
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4058	Posted - 2014.01.19 22:01:00 - [109] - Quote Cedric Reeg wrote: Patrick57 wrote: I'm not blaming anyone, I'm blaming the broken feature. No vehicle should be two shot. At all. So should blaster turrets not 2shot infantry as well? That's the common gripe about it from the infantry angle. Blaster turrets too good at killing infantry, rail turrets to good at killing vehicles. Should we say the same for infantry? Should a HMG not kill a Scout in the time it takes to blink? It's not fair is it that someone gets killed that quickly. Infantry and vehicles are two different things and should be treated as such. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1269	Posted - 2014.01.19 22:04:00 - [110] - Quote An Alpha weapon should not have high ROF for example the missile turret is a burst DPS weapon destroys armor tanks in 1.8 seconds but has a long reload time, The rail gun should have high DPS with a slow fire rate. Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1

NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 18	Posted - 2014.01.20 00:13:00 - [111] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: An Alpha weapon should not have high ROF for example the missile turret is a burst DPS weapon destroys armor tanks in 1.8 seconds but has a long reload time, The rail gun should have high DPS with a slow fire rate. No dps they get alpha
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2176	Posted - 2014.01.20 00:32:00 - [112] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. I OHKO Pythons out of the air before they can react. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 557	Posted - 2014.01.20 00:35:00 - [113] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: What's your solution for fixing railguns, OP? Either a fix to range or damage. Any other ideas would be helpful. It's the only anti vehicle turret.... Let's all yell op if something does its job We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 557	Posted - 2014.01.20 00:37:00 - [114] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Cedric Reeg wrote: For the case you cited, you are being shot at by a gun that at it's base does 1885 damage per shot and you are being shot at by 2x of them. A gun designed to break any and all vehicles. It's no surprise to me as it's what counters my current tank fittings unless I try to rail gun snipe them. Even then I'm not garunteed to kill them as they can dodge it. AND for my trouble people send rage mails about it or rage on the forums how it's UNFAIR. Here is what I did as a tanker in training when I realize I was outmatched or shutdown by the opposing team, be it Jihad Jeeps, AV Infantry, or other (often better) tanks. I stopped using fittings that cost me 250k-434k per fit and went infantry. Soon I decided to put together fittings that cost 67k-150k cause I still wanted to tank and still make a profit. Nowadays I still do this. (Note this is all within PUBLIC matches.) If I run proto/expensive gear and vehicles in a PUBLIC match game and I die in it. Blame comes down to me first for RISKING it by calling it in. Not to blame my killer which is a rampant attitude on the forums. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm blaming the broken feature. No vehicle should be two shot. At all. But a proto forge should be able to take a mlt lav one shot if not this game will lose all respect from me We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4073	Posted - 2014.01.20 00:38:00 - [115] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: What's your solution for fixing railguns, OP? Either a fix to range or damage. Any other ideas would be helpful. It's the only anti vehicle turret.... Let's all yell op if something does its job It may be anti vehicle, but it's far too good at that. Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1673	Posted - 2014.01.20 01:47:00 - [116] - Quote Slim Winning wrote: Rails got caught in a snag. Tankers actually didn't consider the railgun when they complained for their buff. With 40% and 60% hardeners, what did you expect? Railguns are used for AV mainly so they needed a crazy buff to deal with the hardeners. Nobody complained about rails in 1.6 because it was a classic case of only focusing on what your weaknesses as a player were and expecting CCP to fix them for you. It was mainly blaster tankers that complained. They just wanted an easy-button to mow down infantry with and got mad when the infantry pulled out AV to fight back. You could build Rail tanks in 1.6 that could explode tanks into pieces in 1-2 shots, but tankers didn't care to use them, they wanted their easy-button blaster turrets. They never could see the big picture for tanks, AV, all vehicles, and the game as a whole... You hate rail guns? Blame the crybaby tankers that couldn't deal with the fact that they only wanted them to be all powerful, but nothing else. Tankers hate anything that can outplay them, but don't say a word when they have obvious advantages. Tankers now tell AV to "get good"... but pre-1.7, if you told them "get good" they backlashed with excuses. Now you can pop a tank with a militia rail and they complain more because they think nothing should ever counter them, ever. And Dropships get caught in the crossfire because tankers never looked at the big picture. LOLWUT It took far more than just 2 shots to destroy a MLT tank before 1.7. Since it seems you have no idea of what you're talking about, please refrain from making comments about tanks until you actually know what you're talking about. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 295	Posted - 2014.01.20 02:07:00 - [117] - Quote remove rail damage mods!! SUCK ON MY BIG BLACK BASIC BLASTER WELCOME TO WORLDofTANKz514 put your seatbelts on, ITs GONNA BE A BUMPY RIDE!!
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 295	Posted - 2014.01.20 02:16:00 - [118] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Cedric Reeg wrote: For the case you cited, you are being shot at by a gun that at it's base does 1885 damage per shot and you are being shot at by 2x of them. A gun designed to break any and all vehicles. It's no surprise to me as it's what counters my current tank fittings unless I try to rail gun snipe them. Even then I'm not garunteed to kill them as they can dodge it. AND for my trouble people send rage mails about it or rage on the forums how it's UNFAIR. Here is what I did as a tanker in training when I realize I was outmatched or shutdown by the opposing team, be it Jihad Jeeps, AV Infantry, or other (often better) tanks. I stopped using fittings that cost me 250k-434k per fit and went infantry. Soon I decided to put together fittings that cost 67k-150k cause I still wanted to tank and still make a profit. Nowadays I still do this. (Note this is all within PUBLIC matches.) If I run proto/expensive gear and vehicles in a PUBLIC match game and I die in it. Blame comes down to me first for RISKING it by calling it in. Not to blame my killer which is a rampant attitude on the forums. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm blaming the broken feature. No vehicle should be two shot. At all. But a proto forge should be able to take a mlt lav one shot if not this game will lose all respect from me The breach can.. SUCK ON MY BIG BLACK BASIC BLASTER WELCOME TO WORLDofTANKz514 put your seatbelts on, ITs GONNA BE A BUMPY RIDE!!
HYENAKILLER X AGGRESSIVE TYPE 488	Posted - 2014.01.20 02:33:00 - [119] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. You are a good player so I wont sht talk you at all. But sir, the boundless combat rifle imo is better than the rail rifle. You are welcome for my leadership *Proven Aggressive Type
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2185	Posted - 2014.01.20 02:51:00 - [120] - Quote HYENAKILLER X wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. You are a good player so I wont sht talk you at all. But sir, the boundless combat rifle imo is better than the rail rifle. Yeah, that Boundless Combat Rifle always beats my Particle Cannon in a 1v1. The hell is going on? Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.



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