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Jason Pearson
4023
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:
Also slightly less elevation
Your entire post went from decent to bad in just four words..
How do you feel?
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Patrick57 wrote:Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. If you remove rails then Assault dropships will become the new terror.
No because swarms will get buffed, assault dropships run after 1 shot without hardener so....
And if anything assault dropships need a base 15& resistance to everything |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3657
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:
Well then they far excel their job.
That's the point.
Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play.
This is how a niche should perform.
Kill 1 and 7 more come right back.
Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies.
Although, that would explain a lot.
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
53
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Patrick57 wrote:Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Why accuse railguns of anything? This is clearly a case of the transport dropships not having enough HP.
I think this is the best point, we don't need much. I like tanks and their battles, except when one team has none, then it sucks. But just being able to take a little bit more from a rail would be nice, but then this pushes swarms even farther down the list.
FAME
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
53
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Patrick57 wrote:
Well then they far excel their job.
That's the point. Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play. This is how a niche should perform.
Since when were tanks meant to fight aerial vehicles with a rail turret? Surface to air missiles sure, but we are talking long range projectile that seems to be an AV for land vehicles. Make rails harder to kill a DS and the missile turret better.
FAME
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Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4039
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Patrick57 wrote:
Well then they far excel their job.
That's the point. Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play. This is how a niche should perform.
Where exactly do railguns fail?
Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
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Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4039
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Posted - 2014.01.19 06:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Our Deepest Regret wrote:To be fair, since I don't redline snipe, assault dropships who avoid my second shot have a tendency to make my life a living hell, as repayment.
It's like Hitchcock's The Birds. Getting hunted down and pecked to death. Unable to fight back, desperately looking for some cover, cursing yourself for not having a nitro.
That's how it should be! Playing without risk is boring.
So redline is now added to the list of problems.
Winner of at least 9 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
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GVGMODE
WorstPlayersEver
104
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Rail turrets seem to be doing a good job at their role which is anti vehicle, if such turret effectiveness was to be decrease we would have the ADS not only controlling the air but the ground as nothing would stop them from bringing their fury into the poor infantry.
A very simple ADS fit can easily sustain a constant stream of swarms without any problem and forge gunners are more than likely to give up due to the constant missed shots against a decent ADS pilot.
The problem is the way modules work, I suggest nerfing each tier of damage mods.
In the mean time I am still trying to skill into proto small missile turrets. :) |
GVGMODE
WorstPlayersEver
104
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Atiim wrote:Patrick57 wrote:
Well then they far excel their job.
That's the point. Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play. This is how a niche should perform. Where exactly do railguns fail?
Anti-Infantry |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3657
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:
Where exactly do railguns fail?
Railguns are at an extreme disadvantage against infantry, just like other forms of AV.
Kill 1 and 7 more come right back.
Makes you wonder if tankers are like zombies.
Although, that would explain a lot.
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GVGMODE
WorstPlayersEver
104
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
A rail vs infantry is like using a plasma cannon against a player at he top of a building... Lol |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
53
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
Any tips of a good ADS evasion of proto forge? I usually run advanced gear on my python, I think I have an enhanced heavy shield extender too. But I have a problem of surviving.
I run a single hardener and a turbo, but after the first hit the second is usually fatal, even with a Hardener on.
Do I just need more sp invested to survive or any evasion tips?
FAME
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
441
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gotta keep moving, rails are rewarded for just holding R1 and letting her rip. But they don't get a lot of adjustment time between shots that way. If you can get them to let go of R1 the discharge delay should be enough to get away. I'd like to fly more myself but too often Ifind myself in a rail tank to take out the other rails that would otherwise shoot me down.
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
441
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Any tips of a good ADS evasion of proto forge? I usually run advanced gear on my python, I think I have an enhanced heavy shield extender too. But I have a problem of surviving.
I run a single hardener and a turbo, but after the first hit the second is usually fatal, even with a Hardener on.
Do I just need more sp invested to survive or any evasion tips?
I'd still like to see the forge gun projectile move slower. They get this huge reticule and do near instant damage once it's red. Not plasma cannon slow or anything just something to separate it from the rail turrets, after all it is infantry wielded, there has to be some draw back.
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
GVGMODE wrote:Patrick57 wrote:Atiim wrote:Patrick57 wrote:
Well then they far excel their job.
That's the point. Everything is supposed to exceed amazingly at what it does best, but failing in other areas to create an equal compromise, while also creating proper counter-play. This is how a niche should perform. Where exactly do railguns fail? Anti-Infantry
20 kills in an ambush, all infantry  |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Nyain San
Renegade Alliance
834
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Railguns can get fixed once hardeners are fixed.
Last thing dust needs is who has the biggest baddest or most blaster tanks and ADS's having auto win buttons without contest.
Again, railguns are the one thing stopping tank514 from being absolute. And attack dropship spam is included in tank514.
That's "MR." Pothead to you.
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Hoover Damn
H.A.R.V.E.S.T.
Legacy Rising
11
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Add fall-off damage to prevent redline abuse.
It's an 80 GJ railgun. For those of us not gifted in garblespeak, that means it fires a projectile with 80 gigajoules kinetic energy. That's a staggering number.
A 1 kg mass travelling at Mach 10 carries 4.5 megajoules of kinetic energy. 80 gigajoules is more than 17000 times that, so it ought to be moving about 400 km/s. That's faster than the shuttle orbits at. That's like nineteen tonnes of TNT going off in your face.
tl;dr there's no reason for the railgun to not be a hitscan weapon that blinds everybody with white hot plasma vapour trails. |
Cedric Reeg
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
9
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:30:00 -
[48] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Atiim wrote:Patrick57 wrote:
Nope, the alpha damage is way too high. My Derpship has about 3600 HP and a Standard Railgun does 1450 Damage. Add proficiency and you're ******.
Err not quite. Proficiency skill on turrets only increases the rotation speed on the turrets. Not increase how much damage it does. Though, I think Alldin Kan made a thread about how damage mods were broken. Too bad I forgot to put it in my favorites. While railguns are a bit broken, keep in mind that they are supposed to demolish vehicles. Well then they far excel their job.
A Sica/Gunnlogi with 2-3xDMG Mods is built to wreck any/all vehicles that get caught and stay in it's sights. The same tank is also called a -Glass Cannon- and has MUCH less bite with those mods on CD. Not to mention it has poor EHP and a sitting duck for other tanks. Perhaps even the Assault Dropship that then flies over to the tank and proceeds pop proto-grade missiles for at best a Shooting Range target in difficulty. Quack Quack.
Dropships that "deserve" to live are those that utilize cover to evade such firepower. Moving in open sky is not cover and just comes down to can you fly sporadically enough till the clip is empty or the gun overheats.
Tank drivers almost always get killed with their tank, dropship pilots rarely do. |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
53
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tank514 does exist on smaller maps. I have seen it on large too, but yea, a single rail on your team can start to turn the tide. But how many tankers are out there? We were all supposed to find a role and work it, does CCP really expect us to have it all sp'd out. There are not enough tankers to fight all of the tankers, as they usually run in squads and are not as dispersed.
FAME
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
Top Men.
558
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Using a blaster as AV, you need AT LEAST 2 overheats(or close to OH's if you're food) to kill a tank.
Rails can kill in 3 shots, 2 with 1 damage mod, or 5 if they're twin hardened.
That's 1 OH.
A rail needs to OH at 3 shots, and have RoF halved.
Make a faster variant with 800 damage, and current RoF.
Tl:dr make it take longer than 1/3 of an OH to kill a tank CCP.(oh and give us passive damage mods.)
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
I have a God, His name is Dakka.
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
53
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
I use to fly low, 1-4 m off the ground. That is death now. One hit and you will have nowhere to go. There are plenty of stationary turrets that are a threat and yea cover can work, but it is super risky. As tanks can easily flank your position and if you try to fly anywhere remotely "safe" way up in the sky you will not make it.
Also, forge gun?
A DS can not stay low for long. Quick swoops and corner flanking are best to minimize getting swatted.
FAME
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
53
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Posted - 2014.01.19 07:39:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Using a blaster as AV, you need AT LEAST 2 overheats(or close to OH's if you're food) to kill a tank.
Rails can kill in 3 shots, 2 with 1 damage mod, or 5 if they're twin hardened.
That's 1 OH.
A rail needs to OH at 3 shots, and have RoF halved.
Make a faster variant with 800 damage, and current RoF.
Tl:dr make it take longer than 1/3 of an OH to kill a tank CCP.(oh and give us passive damage mods.)
Slower ROF and you will never end a redline tanker.
FAME
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Our Deepest Regret
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
488
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Posted - 2014.01.19 08:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:
So redline is now added to the list of problems.
Red lining is the problem with Rail tanks. The only counter is another red line tank. Best weapon in the game for a keyboard and mouse sniper, bar none. |
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
487
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Posted - 2014.01.19 09:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
Reduce rail turret's ability to look up.
Increase missile turret's ability to look up.
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Rusty Shallows
836
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Posted - 2014.01.19 09:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Patrick57 wrote:Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. Why accuse railguns of anything? This is clearly a case of the transport dropships not having enough HP.
CPM pushed for an HP buff not too long ago. It really isn't an option now with the last round of senseless nerfing.
If CCP really wants to helps Dropships they need to lower Large Rail muzzle velocity down to forge guns. Also giving them the blue ball so pilots have a chance to spot misses and react accordingly.
MCC Lounge Lizard
Forums > Game
Fix the game CCP
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2014.01.19 09:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Railguns can get fixed once hardeners are fixed.
Last thing dust needs is who has the biggest baddest or most blaster tanks and ADS's having auto win buttons without contest.
Again, railguns are the one thing stopping tank514 from being absolute. And attack dropship spam is included in tank514.
Lol anyone who spams ads has 0 isk, they are very very expensive and forge guns wreck them if they are not moving |
Blaze Ashra
DROID EXILES
General Tso's Alliance
139
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Posted - 2014.01.19 11:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Patrick57 wrote:Because I'm tired of being two shot out of the air before I can even react. If you remove rails then Assault dropships will become the new terror.
Don't worry about that. The cost, skill required, forges, kamekazi, RDV, stupid collision and knockback, every installation and tank, explosions, null cannons other assault dropships and everything else kind of makes it unprofitable.
Look, I know you love your compensation cannon but it sucks being insta gibbed. Seriously, if were just going to allow insta gibbing then swarms need to be brought up to 400 per missile at minimum seeing as how they were the only thing keeping tanks in check.
ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
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Blaze Ashra
DROID EXILES
General Tso's Alliance
139
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Posted - 2014.01.19 11:49:00 -
[58] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Patrick57 wrote:
Where exactly do railguns fail?
Railguns are at an extreme disadvantage against infantry, just like other forms of AV.
That's bull. When i was starting out I had to snipe. Anyone who knows to press R3, has 60k isk and knows how to snipe can do just as well or better with a militia rail gun than a thales, while also being able to farm installations and vehicles in 2 - 4 shots.
ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
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Blaze Ashra
DROID EXILES
General Tso's Alliance
139
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Posted - 2014.01.19 12:06:00 -
[59] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Any tips of a good ADS evasion of proto forge? I usually run advanced gear on my python, I think I have an enhanced heavy shield extender too. But I have a problem of surviving.
I run a single hardener and a turbo, but after the first hit the second is usually fatal, even with a Hardener on.
Do I just need more sp invested to survive or any evasion tips?
My best python fit is:
2 x Complex shield hardeners
1 x Complex after burner
1 x Enhanced missile expansion
1 x XT missiles
Basically use hit an run tactics. Survey the perimiter for rail tanks and work your way in. If you see a blob of reds and it looks clear hit your first hardener and go to town. When the third tick is gone hit your second hardener. When the first tick is down to 3 hit your after burner fly to the cieling and circle the perimiter to check for tanks. Wait for cool down and do it again from a different direction.
Dodging forges you have to know where they're at so you follow the shots and try to look for the blue glow. Then you keep facing them and try to manuver and switch it up. If you have both hardeners going you can try to kill them but you have to bail when the first hardener is at 3 ticks.
ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
229
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Posted - 2014.01.19 12:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Patrick57 wrote:
Nope, the alpha damage is way too high. My Derpship has about 3600 HP and a Standard Railgun does 1450 Damage. Add proficiency and you're ******.
Err not quite. Proficiency skill on turrets only increases the rotation speed on the turrets. Not increase how much damage it does. Though, I think Alldin Kan made a thread about how damage mods were broken. Too bad I forgot to put it in my favorites. While railguns are a bit broken, keep in mind that they are supposed to demolish vehicles.
AV is also supposed to demolish vehicles
War never changes
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