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If there is a better time to ask for tiercide, it is now

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BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1528	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:46:00 - [1] - Quote We have all read the rumors and speculation and nobody knows exactly what is going to happen. What we do know is that CCP main focus is dropsuits. So it's they know we want tiercide.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1695	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:47:00 - [2] - Quote TI-ER-CIDE! TI-ER-CIDE! TI-ER-CIDE! Am I helping guise? Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11807	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:50:00 - [3] - Quote CPM been nearly screaming with every chance we get. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1529	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:51:00 - [4] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM been nearly screaming with every chance we get. Maybe it's time the community starts screaming with you.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1696	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:55:00 - [5] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM been nearly screaming with every chance we get. Maybe it's time the community starts screaming with you. You know, my opinion of IWS has really skyrocketed in the past few months. Kudos to you IWS! You've made a believer out of me. I would also have more faith in the other CPM's, but so far, none of them seem to know about the scouts thread........ Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1079	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:57:00 - [6] - Quote people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means?
Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4647	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:00:00 - [7] - Quote I'd love tiericide, but at the least I'd hope to have a uniform slot layout across all tiers. Slots are what we use to make our fitting and roles unique and individualized to our own preferences. They are something that we should always have, and not be the bargaining chips to balancing the game. Amarr Victor! CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1817	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:04:00 - [8] - Quote With the recent vehicle revamp QQ being mostly due to the parts that are directly from tiericide, why should we convert everything? Would things have been different if a full on tiericide job was done to vehicles? I need an explanation from a tiericide expert. So about those vehicle locks...
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 653	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:08:00 - [9] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: With the recent vehicle revamp QQ being mostly due to the parts that are directly from tiericide, why should we convert everything? Would things have been different if a full on tiericide job was done to vehicles? I need an explanation from a tiericide expert. Vehicles have always been tiercided. Now they got techcided. That needs to get reversed fully. Anyways, it's not everything, but it can be. It's mainly just the suits, and a balance pass on everything to balance it for the suits. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Lucrezia LeGrand 190	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:09:00 - [10] - Quote low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? No idea. I'm going to lurk on this page until someone explains it for me. ya- hoi hoi

Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4647	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:14:00 - [11] - Quote Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? No idea. I'm going to lurk on this page until someone explains it for me. Tiericide means "Kill the tiers" Basically a lot of us believe that a major problem with Dust's infantry combat is how unbalanced the game is between militia, standard, advanced, and proto fits. The idea of tiericide is that it would be better if everything was the same tier, thus their would be no tiers, and instead of spending skill points to move up the tiers you spend skill points to specialize and find your role. Every bonus that you add to your fits would come with an equal negative to balance it out and keep all fits on an even playing field. At least, that's how I think of tiericde. Amarr Victor! CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11810	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:25:00 - [12] - Quote Aero basically got the premise right there are ways to go about it though. A purist tericide would remove ALL meta levels. While this would be neat and players would grow outwards the game would be too flat for most people's liking. So generally there is a knock off version, one of lesser degree. For example the one I am currently advocating would remove basic and advanced frames and suits leaving players with prototype slot layouts as the only suit in each class entry. Then introducing two more suit entries at base classes that creating a 'tech 1' experience in which the suits are slightly skewed towards the roles but are able to fulfill many of them. Then the current tech 2 suits get an additional suit and they're heavily skewed into very specific roles. For example Light Frames under my model would have three types GK. 0 GK. 1 Gk. 2 The slot layout of 0 would suggest high speed, high stealth, or high mobility. Slot layout of Gk. 1 would suggest high utility, the stats and slots can suggest utility, sabotage, intel, while the third suit seems deemingly more worthy of being either a light combat scout or a pilot of some sort or a covert or skirmish. squad leader. but thats the light frames and if any bonuses would support a broad range of modules instead of one or two but the bonus overall is a bit weak. Then with Tech 2 we get specialist suits that are laser focused. A scout suit designed purely for infiltration, gets bonuses for being able to not only cloak but dodge scanners as well and assassinate players with a damage bonus to melee and other short ranged weapons. Its brother suit would be more suited to being a saboteur giving up some speed and attack for ability to set more traps covertly and not get caught doing so. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdDdKYjRQT193VDlfbFM5b0FwdlB5Ymc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 while its missing stats or bonuses this is what my model could look like in tree format. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3867	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:30:00 - [13] - Quote If we get tericide we need to fill up on skill effects, there are too many skills that give absolutely no bonus. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1807	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:33:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: -snip- I'm not trying to start anything here, but we had something similar to this once, didn't we? The type IIs, I mean. Would you be behind the return of the type IIs? They offered a different sort of flexibility, giving up their sidearms for an equipment slot. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara Use the Commando A-I suit and show your worth.
Lucrezia LeGrand 192	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:45:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero basically got the premise right there are ways to go about it though. A purist tericide would remove ALL meta levels. While this would be neat and players would grow outwards the game would be too flat for most people's liking. So generally there is a knock off version, one of lesser degree. For example the one I am currently advocating would remove basic and advanced frames and suits leaving players with prototype slot layouts as the only suit in each class entry. Then introducing two more suit entries at base classes that creating a 'tech 1' experience in which the suits are slightly skewed towards the roles but are able to fulfill many of them. Then the current tech 2 suits get an additional suit and they're heavily skewed into very specific roles. For example Light Frames under my model would have three types GK. 0 GK. 1 Gk. 2 The slot layout of 0 would suggest high speed, high stealth, or high mobility. Slot layout of Gk. 1 would suggest high utility, the stats and slots can suggest utility, sabotage, intel, while the third suit seems deemingly more worthy of being either a light combat scout or a pilot of some sort or a covert or skirmish. squad leader. but thats the light frames and if any bonuses would support a broad range of modules instead of one or two but the bonus overall is a bit weak. Then with Tech 2 we get specialist suits that are laser focused. A scout suit designed purely for infiltration, gets bonuses for being able to not only cloak but dodge scanners as well and assassinate players with a damage bonus to melee and other short ranged weapons. Its brother suit would be more suited to being a saboteur giving up some speed and attack for ability to set more traps covertly and not get caught doing so. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdDdKYjRQT193VDlfbFM5b0FwdlB5Ymc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 while its missing stats or bonuses this is what my model could look like in tree format. wow. this sounds really awesome!! I could definitely get behind this. But how does this work with weapons? ya- hoi hoi
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1792	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:45:00 - [16] - Quote low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? I think it means a sane approach identical to what EVE took, where you have the basic, and then the T2 versions which are specializations with obvious role bonuses and tweaked stats and slots, each with very obvious roles and strengths and weaknesses with most having a "place," and non of this weird basic/advanced/proto bullcrap. It would be wonderful if done the same as EVE. The basic frames would be cheap, dirt cheap, and used for the general "roles," and with SP specializations you could access the expensive T2 frames for specific specializations and specific advantages. It would eliminate the blanket "Better then you" Proto VS Basic situation we have now, and revert to "This guy can do something specific very well, but is not an auto-win for same-skilled-users." The "logi" ships in EVE are tough little bastards and expensive and can do an amazing job of keeping ships alive, but due to their role bonuses ONLY applying for their role... They can't be used to kill as easily as Assault Frigates... We need teircide, we need real role bonuses... Maybe not "need" but at least the game would hugely benefit if we took a similar approach that EVE took... And get rid of those damned SP sinks that don't do anything but unlock other crap... Even the basic ship command skill in EVE gives some tiny little agility bonus... Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 109	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:47:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero basically got the premise right there are ways to go about it though. A purist tericide would remove ALL meta levels. While this would be neat and players would grow outwards the game would be too flat for most people's liking. So generally there is a knock off version, one of lesser degree. For example the one I am currently advocating would remove basic and advanced frames and suits leaving players with prototype slot layouts as the only suit in each class entry. Then introducing two more suit entries at base classes that creating a 'tech 1' experience in which the suits are slightly skewed towards the roles but are able to fulfill many of them. Then the current tech 2 suits get an additional suit and they're heavily skewed into very specific roles. For example Light Frames under my model would have three types GK. 0 GK. 1 Gk. 2 The slot layout of 0 would suggest high speed, high stealth, or high mobility. Slot layout of Gk. 1 would suggest high utility, the stats and slots can suggest utility, sabotage, intel, while the third suit seems deemingly more worthy of being either a light combat scout or a pilot of some sort or a covert or skirmish. squad leader. but thats the light frames and if any bonuses would support a broad range of modules instead of one or two but the bonus overall is a bit weak. Then with Tech 2 we get specialist suits that are laser focused. A scout suit designed purely for infiltration, gets bonuses for being able to not only cloak but dodge scanners as well and assassinate players with a damage bonus to melee and other short ranged weapons. Its brother suit would be more suited to being a saboteur giving up some speed and attack for ability to set more traps covertly and not get caught doing so. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdDdKYjRQT193VDlfbFM5b0FwdlB5Ymc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 while its missing stats or bonuses this is what my model could look like in tree format. I mentioned something similar back during closed beta and got told that it would never work, also there was much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments and so on. Good luck though.
Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 179	Posted - 2014.01.10 09:14:00 - [18] - Quote low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? Harvesting tears?
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 892	Posted - 2014.01.10 09:24:00 - [19] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: -snip- I'm not trying to start anything here, but we had something similar to this once, didn't we? The type IIs, I mean. Would you be behind the return of the type IIs? They offered a different sort of flexibility, giving up their sidearms for an equipment slot. There are two type IIs still in the game that I know about, The Skinweave Militia Minmatar medium frame and The Master Recruiter CII Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 892	Posted - 2014.01.10 09:30:00 - [20] - Quote I like the tiers, it lets me set my level of difficulty :( Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.

Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 199	Posted - 2014.01.10 10:12:00 - [21] - Quote Tiericide gets my vote. There's a number of good reasons for it, but the main benefit is that new players have a (slightly) more even playing field, which will help player retention.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 463	Posted - 2014.01.10 12:38:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber describes tiericide pretty much exactly as I would like to see it, but I don't think most people realize how far we are from being able to see it. It's EVE style tiericide, and ship balance in EVE is really good, at least as of a year or so ago, but we have to consider why EVE is able to have four Minmatar cruisers and each end up in completely unique roles. It's not because of the skill bonuses, although they certainly help. It's because they have three slot levels, each with up to eight slots, do determine what types of modules that ship may need. Three by eight gives you a lot more options than two by five. It's not just their eHP, but also their natural resistances. They're not the same for every ship. In DUST there are not separate damage types, but rather certain weapons having bonuses against armor or shields, though giving certain suits a flat resistance could fill much of the role. It's some ships having a larger capacitor, some having faster cap recharge, and some having neither. In DUST any suit can run their weapons and active mods (AKA equipment) as well as any other. It's turret hardpoints, so combat focused ships put out more damage regardless of skills. A scimitar (Min T2 Logi) can be made pretty tanky, but there's no way to make it able to tangle with combat cruisers because it can never fit enough guns to put out reasonable DPS. The Bellicose's skill bonus would only give it a 25% damage boost over the Scimi, it's the ability to equip 4 weapons instead of 3 that makes the real difference. Without this, or at least something allowing as much suit individuality as these features, we can't realistically see the level of variance between suits that would be necessary for a tiericide to work.
Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 109	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:19:00 - [23] - Quote Bump for Great Justice
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 19	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:21:00 - [24] - Quote What exactly is tiercide? I've never heard of it before this thread Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 95	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:49:00 - [25] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? No idea. I'm going to lurk on this page until someone explains it for me. Tiericide means "Kill the tiers" Basically a lot of us believe that a major problem with Dust's infantry combat is how unbalanced the game is between militia, standard, advanced, and proto fits. The idea of tiericide is that it would be better if everything was the same tier, thus there would be no tiers, and instead of spending skill points to move up the tiers you spend skill points to specialize and find your role. Every bonus that you add to your fits would come with an equal negative to balance it out and keep all fits on an even playing field. At least, that's how I think of tiericde. Essentially they, the tiericide parade, are tuning the uniqueness of DUST 514's gameplay into a Call of Duty/Battlefield FPS feel gameplay. When you think about it, this was done to all LAVs and HAVs. Notice there is little to no difference between a soma and a madruger. What should had happen was holding the new players longer in Academy up to 3 million skill points or 100,000 WarPoints. Whatever comes first. Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Tends to flip the table when seeing the words: YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11866	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:59:00 - [26] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? No idea. I'm going to lurk on this page until someone explains it for me. Tiericide means "Kill the tiers" Basically a lot of us believe that a major problem with Dust's infantry combat is how unbalanced the game is between militia, standard, advanced, and proto fits. The idea of tiericide is that it would be better if everything was the same tier, thus there would be no tiers, and instead of spending skill points to move up the tiers you spend skill points to specialize and find your role. Every bonus that you add to your fits would come with an equal negative to balance it out and keep all fits on an even playing field. At least, that's how I think of tiericde. Essentially they, the tiericide parade, are tuning the uniqueness of DUST 514's gameplay into a Call of Duty/Battlefield FPS feel gameplay. When you think about it, this was done to all LAVs and HAVs. Notice there is little to no difference between a soma and a madruger. What should had happen was holding the new players longer in Academy up to 3 million skill points or 100,000 WarPoints. Whatever comes first. Absolutely wrong. A true tetricide would eliminate the entire concept that X item requires Y skill level over Z item's requirement therefore X is better than Z. Under Teiridice, Y skill unlocks both Z and X at the same time, both Z and X are equally effective but Z and X have different approaches to the job it is meant to do under skill decription of Y. In the case of tanks, we'd would train HAV to I, and unlock the Gunnlogi a Light battle tank, then a second tank let's call it the Parashu a bigger heavier slower moving HAV with higher defenses, both HAVs fit the same type of equipment and can even have similar type of fittings even and both can do a wide variety of roles still from glass cannon point defense to front line brawlers, but the two play entirely different because of the bonuses, innate stats and nature of the vehicle itself. Then throw in tech 1 and tech 2 concepts from eve. Both of these Tanks get highly specialized versions, Who knows maybe the Gunnlogis tech 2 cousin is a hover tank. While the Parashu becomes something more akin to a mobile fortress, their tech 1 cousins have far more freedom while the tech 2 versions are stuck with a very specific role they must fit into. There may be more than one contender in each catagory. Ishkone may think the best way to build a mobile fortress is overwhelming and accurate firepower while Ladai belives defense is the best option and Kalakaloina opts for stealth instead. All three fullfill the same roles but all three found different ways to skin the same cat. Now apply this to infantry. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 244	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:08:00 - [27] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: What exactly is tiercide? I've never heard of it before this thread Its actually a rather complicated process, touching on everything from new player experience, simplification of game assets, balance, etc. The best way to describe it is to look at what the current situation is. A new player starts the game and starts with militia gear. After some time they have amassed enough skill and isk to move on to standard equipment, then later advanced, then proto. Once you get away from militia, it's unlikely you're going to use it again. Same for standard, and then advanced. What is bad about this is as players advance in the game their progression is rendering large swatch of content unusable. The second problem is that of power creep. Nobody likes getting proto stomped, but it can only happen because of the tiers of power in the different suits. With equally skilled players proto beats advanced, advanced beats a standard, etc. Tiericide would start by flattening out suits into a single tier and then create specializations that alter a playstyle, but in a way that is not an automatic win. Looking at medium suits we currently have the setup Standard - Basic, logistics, Assault Advanced - Basic, Logistics, Assault Proto - Basic, Logistics, Assault Thats 9 different suits, per race. This is a large number of assets for CCP to maintain, and a large number for players to deal with as well. Tiericide would do something like this. Tier 1 - Logistics, Assault Tier 2 - Logistics A, Logistics B, Assault A, Assault B You start with suits that cover all of the roles. No longer would core roles be gated by skillpoints. From your tier 1 suit you have specialization paths into suits that are different, but not automatic 'I Win'. Looking at what this achieves we see that there are 6 suits, instead of 9 (33% reduction), Two choices for end game specialization (100% increase from the 1 choice we have now). Bottom line is that it increases player choice, decreases complexity, and levels out the playing field between new players and vets. EVE - Victor Maximus DUST - Azri Sarum
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11868	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:14:00 - [28] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: -snip- I'm not trying to start anything here, but we had something similar to this once, didn't we? The type IIs, I mean. Would you be behind the return of the type IIs? They offered a different sort of flexibility, giving up their sidearms for an equipment slot. There are two type IIs still in the game that I know about, The Skinweave Militia Minmatar medium frame and The Master Recruiter CII Saga CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 655	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:16:00 - [29] - Quote Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero basically got the premise right there are ways to go about it though. A purist tericide would remove ALL meta levels. While this would be neat and players would grow outwards the game would be too flat for most people's liking. So generally there is a knock off version, one of lesser degree. For example the one I am currently advocating would remove basic and advanced frames and suits leaving players with prototype slot layouts as the only suit in each class entry. Then introducing two more suit entries at base classes that creating a 'tech 1' experience in which the suits are slightly skewed towards the roles but are able to fulfill many of them. Then the current tech 2 suits get an additional suit and they're heavily skewed into very specific roles. For example Light Frames under my model would have three types GK. 0 GK. 1 Gk. 2 The slot layout of 0 would suggest high speed, high stealth, or high mobility. Slot layout of Gk. 1 would suggest high utility, the stats and slots can suggest utility, sabotage, intel, while the third suit seems deemingly more worthy of being either a light combat scout or a pilot of some sort or a covert or skirmish. squad leader. but thats the light frames and if any bonuses would support a broad range of modules instead of one or two but the bonus overall is a bit weak. Then with Tech 2 we get specialist suits that are laser focused. A scout suit designed purely for infiltration, gets bonuses for being able to not only cloak but dodge scanners as well and assassinate players with a damage bonus to melee and other short ranged weapons. Its brother suit would be more suited to being a saboteur giving up some speed and attack for ability to set more traps covertly and not get caught doing so. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdDdKYjRQT193VDlfbFM5b0FwdlB5Ymc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 while its missing stats or bonuses this is what my model could look like in tree format. wow. this sounds really awesome!! I could definitely get behind this. But how does this work with weapons? Weapons and modules going by EVE's definition of tiercide would keep them as is. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Rusty Shallows 762	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:17:00 - [30] - Quote low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? Apparently it has a dual meaning like Murder Taxis. At times peoples use of it confuses me too. MCC Lounge Lizard Forums > Game Fix the game CCP

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11868	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:17:00 - [31] - Quote Weapons can get subjected though lets say they brought in weapon customization. For example we bring in weapon customization and trim all the extra variants out and let players design thier own within limits. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Toby Flenderson research lab 186	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:20:00 - [32] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? No idea. I'm going to lurk on this page until someone explains it for me. Tiericide means "Kill the tiers" Basically a lot of us believe that a major problem with Dust's infantry combat is how unbalanced the game is between militia, standard, advanced, and proto fits. The idea of tiericide is that it would be better if everything was the same tier, thus there would be no tiers, and instead of spending skill points to move up the tiers you spend skill points to specialize and find your role. Every bonus that you add to your fits would come with an equal negative to balance it out and keep all fits on an even playing field. At least, that's how I think of tiericde. I hope this is what people have been screaming about. To be honest, I was never sure what people meant exactly by the term. If this is what the general use of the term entails then I'm on board.
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 656	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:31:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Weapons can get subjected though lets say they brought in weapon customization. For example we bring in weapon customization and trim all the extra variants out and let players design thier own within limits. That is true. I wouldn't mind tiercide for weapons and turrets if it meant I could customize them. There would still need to be tech 2 ones though. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 656	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:32:00 - [34] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? No idea. I'm going to lurk on this page until someone explains it for me. Tiericide means "Kill the tiers" Basically a lot of us believe that a major problem with Dust's infantry combat is how unbalanced the game is between militia, standard, advanced, and proto fits. The idea of tiericide is that it would be better if everything was the same tier, thus there would be no tiers, and instead of spending skill points to move up the tiers you spend skill points to specialize and find your role. Every bonus that you add to your fits would come with an equal negative to balance it out and keep all fits on an even playing field. At least, that's how I think of tiericde. I hope this is what people have been screaming about. To be honest, I was never sure what people meant exactly by the term. If this is what the general use of the term entails then I'm on board. In your next life, pay attention in class. "cide" means to kill. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 767	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:35:00 - [35] - Quote Tiericide would destroy the risk vs. ISK mechanism which is DUST's biggest redeeming quality. It would turn DUST into a pathetic clone of PS2. We can fix the NPE by creating an optional 2nd tier academy battle mode available to all players with less than x SP (maybe around 2 -5 million SP). I usually don't wear my proto suit in most pub matches, but sometimes I feel compelled to pull it out. Making those kinds of decisions are why I play DUST. It's incredibly satisfying to take out a proto suit while wearing a cheap fit. F*ck tiericide. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11874	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:40:00 - [36] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Tiericide would destroy the risk vs. ISK mechanism which is DUST's biggest redeeming quality. It would turn DUST into a pathetic clone of PS2. We can fix the NPE by creating an optional 2nd tier academy battle mode available to all players with less than x SP (maybe around 2 -5 million SP). I usually don't wear my proto suit in most pub matches, but sometimes I feel compelled to pull it out. Making those kinds of decisions are why I play DUST. It's incredibly satisfying to take out a proto suit while wearing a cheap fit. F*ck tiericide. Shift the costs to the suits and weapons that is lost on the suits. Make certain suit classes slightly more pronounced in prices too for example there would be a large multiplier of a difference between tech 1 suits and their tech 2 cousins like 10x more maybe? Gallente had 7 frigates, 3 in teir 1 2 in teir 2 and 2 in teir 3 and teir 3 where not always the best even though they had the highest skill requirement (lvl 3) and nobody ever used tier 1s despite being the most cheapest because it was riskier to get caught dead in those ships. Post Teiricide 7 Frigates, all the similar mineral price. All useful all being used much more often now a days Also your idea would not work in the academy Vell0cet, it has yet to work, and I know expanding a second round of battles it would pronounce how wrong your idea is. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 767	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:50:00 - [37] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Tiericide would destroy the risk vs. ISK mechanism which is DUST's biggest redeeming quality. It would turn DUST into a pathetic clone of PS2. We can fix the NPE by creating an optional 2nd tier academy battle mode available to all players with less than x SP (maybe around 2 -5 million SP). I usually don't wear my proto suit in most pub matches, but sometimes I feel compelled to pull it out. Making those kinds of decisions are why I play DUST. It's incredibly satisfying to take out a proto suit while wearing a cheap fit. Fck tiericide. Shift the costs to the suits and weapons that is lost on the suits. Make certain suit classes slightly more pronounced in prices too for example there would be a large multiplier of a difference between tech 1 suits and their tech 2 cousins like 10x more maybe? Gallente had 7 frigates, 3 in teir 1 2 in teir 2 and 2 in teir 3 and teir 3 where not always the best even though they had the highest skill requirement (lvl 3) and nobody ever used tier 1s despite being the most cheapest because it was riskier to get caught dead in those ships. Post Teiricide 7 Frigates, all the similar mineral price. All useful all being used much more often now a days Also your idea would not work in the academy Vell0cet, it has yet to work, and I know expanding a second round of battles it would pronounce how wrong your idea is. But all suits are being used right now. I use PRO, ADV, and STD fits (and I used MIL when I was trying things out in the beginning) regularly. DUST doesn't have the problem of suits from various tiers going unused because they're worthless. If I'm trying to earn ISK i'll go cheap, for most battles I'll use ADV gear, and for things that matter (or if someone really psses me off and I want revenge) I'll step it up to the expensive stuff. That's an interesting and fun dynamic that already exists. Tiericide in EVE was solving a very different problem (most ships were lame and unused/unloved). The problem DUST is having is the NPE which could be solved much better with the suggestion I posed above. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1535	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:00:00 - [38] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Tiericide would destroy the risk vs. ISK mechanism which is DUST's biggest redeeming quality. It would turn DUST into a pathetic clone of PS2. We can fix the NPE by creating an optional 2nd tier academy battle mode available to all players with less than x SP (maybe around 2 -5 million SP). I usually don't wear my proto suit in most pub matches, but sometimes I feel compelled to pull it out. Making those kinds of decisions are why I play DUST. It's incredibly satisfying to take out a proto suit while wearing a cheap fit. Fck tiericide. Shift the costs to the suits and weapons that is lost on the suits. Make certain suit classes slightly more pronounced in prices too for example there would be a large multiplier of a difference between tech 1 suits and their tech 2 cousins like 10x more maybe? Gallente had 7 frigates, 3 in teir 1 2 in teir 2 and 2 in teir 3 and teir 3 where not always the best even though they had the highest skill requirement (lvl 3) and nobody ever used tier 1s despite being the most cheapest because it was riskier to get caught dead in those ships. Post Teiricide 7 Frigates, all the similar mineral price. All useful all being used much more often now a days Also your idea would not work in the academy Vell0cet, it has yet to work, and I know expanding a second round of battles it would pronounce how wrong your idea is. But all suits are being used right now. I use PRO, ADV, and STD fits (and I used MIL when I was trying things out in the beginning) regularly. DUST doesn't have the problem of suits from various tiers going unused because they're worthless. If I'm trying to earn ISK i'll go cheap, for most battles I'll use ADV gear, and for things that matter (or if someone really psses me off and I want revenge) I'll step it up to the expensive stuff. That's an interesting and fun dynamic that already exists. Tiericide in EVE was solving a very different problem (most ships were lame and unused/unloved). The problem DUST is having is the NPE which could be solved much better with the suggestion I posed above. Your looking at it the wrong way. What tier code would do is give MLT-ADV suits a fair fight vs a proto suit. The Proto suit will still be better and more expensive but the difference would be a lot smaller for example a proto suit compared to a MLT suit can have up to 30% more damage and double the HP. That's so unfair, and the learning curve and SP required to catch up is very steep. What tiercide would do is bring low level suits inline with proto suits, but will reward the higher level suits with a small advantage not a huge one. At the same time it will add variation with type II suits etc.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 767	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:18:00 - [39] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Your looking at it the wrong way. What tier code would do is give MLT-ADV suits a fair fight vs a proto suit. The Proto suit will still be better and more expensive but the difference would be a lot smaller for example a proto suit compared to a MLT suit can have up to 30% more damage and double the HP. That's so unfair, and the learning curve and SP required to catch up is very steep. What tiercide would do is bring low level suits inline with proto suits, but will reward the higher level suits with a small advantage not a huge one. At the same time it will add variation with type II suits etc. Why would I run a suit that costs 10x the cost if it's advantage is very small? Look at EVE. An Omen costs roughly 8 mill, it's T2 counterpart the Zealot costs roughly 150 mill. That's nearly a 20x increase in price, and anyone who plays EVE knows that in a straight 1v1 fight, the Omen will loose every time. But if you bring 2-3 Omens, you can easily take out a Zealot with much less ISK on the line. I don't want fair fights. I want INTERESTING fights with tactics and different tiers of gear. It makes DUST fun, unique and exciting. With mixed levels of gear, the tactical situation is always changing and never the same. That's fun and interesting gameplay to me. Make DUST cookie-cutter where everyone's on a level playing field and you've got a **** game like Plannetside 2. If DUST tries to be a PS2 clone, it will fail miserably. Tiered gear and risk vs. ISK is literally the most interesting/fun aspect of DUST. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1536	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:31:00 - [40] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Your looking at it the wrong way. What tier code would do is give MLT-ADV suits a fair fight vs a proto suit. The Proto suit will still be better and more expensive but the difference would be a lot smaller for example a proto suit compared to a MLT suit can have up to 30% more damage and double the HP. That's so unfair, and the learning curve and SP required to catch up is very steep. What tiercide would do is bring low level suits inline with proto suits, but will reward the higher level suits with a small advantage not a huge one. At the same time it will add variation with type II suits etc. Why would I run a suit that costs 10x the cost if it's advantage is very small? Look at EVE. An Omen costs roughly 8 mill, it's T2 counterpart the Zealot costs roughly 150 mill. That's nearly a 20x increase in price, and anyone who plays EVE knows that in a straight 1v1 fight, the Omen will loose every time. But if you bring 2-3 Omens, you can easily take out a Zealot with much less ISK on the line. I don't want fair fights. I want INTERESTING fights with tactics and different tiers of gear. It makes DUST fun, unique and exciting. With mixed levels of gear, the tactical situation is always changing and never the same. That's fun and interesting gameplay to me. Make DUST cookie-cutter where everyone's on a level playing field and you've got a **** game like Plannetside 2. If DUST tries to be a PS2 clone, it will fail miserably. Tiered gear and risk vs. ISK is literally the most interesting/fun aspect of DUST. I bet the reward for destroying the Zealot is great... what's the reward for 3 mlt suits taking out a proto suit? Practically nothing.

Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 382	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:42:00 - [41] - Quote +1 OP.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 767	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:42:00 - [42] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Vell0cet wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Your looking at it the wrong way. What tier code would do is give MLT-ADV suits a fair fight vs a proto suit. The Proto suit will still be better and more expensive but the difference would be a lot smaller for example a proto suit compared to a MLT suit can have up to 30% more damage and double the HP. That's so unfair, and the learning curve and SP required to catch up is very steep. What tiercide would do is bring low level suits inline with proto suits, but will reward the higher level suits with a small advantage not a huge one. At the same time it will add variation with type II suits etc. Why would I run a suit that costs 10x the cost if it's advantage is very small? Look at EVE. An Omen costs roughly 8 mill, it's T2 counterpart the Zealot costs roughly 150 mill. That's nearly a 20x increase in price, and anyone who plays EVE knows that in a straight 1v1 fight, the Omen will loose every time. But if you bring 2-3 Omens, you can easily take out a Zealot with much less ISK on the line. I don't want fair fights. I want INTERESTING fights with tactics and different tiers of gear. It makes DUST fun, unique and exciting. With mixed levels of gear, the tactical situation is always changing and never the same. That's fun and interesting gameplay to me. Make DUST cookie-cutter where everyone's on a level playing field and you've got a **** game like Plannetside 2. If DUST tries to be a PS2 clone, it will fail miserably. Tiered gear and risk vs. ISK is literally the most interesting/fun aspect of DUST. I bet the reward for destroying the Zealot is great... what's the reward for 3 mlt suits taking out a proto suit? Practically nothing. Actually it's just a chance for some of it's mods to drop. It's mostly the satisfaction of taking away someone's expensive toy, which is the same reward you get in DUST (and also a percent of the cost of the suit/fittings gets added to the pool to be distributed at the end of the match, so you get a bigger payout). Don't you get a warm and fuzzy feeling when you kill someone's proto? Is there any other FPS that delivers such a satisfying experience? Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1941	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:42:00 - [43] - Quote low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? Destruction of tiers? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 767	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:46:00 - [44] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? Destruction of tiers? That's not actually how it worked in EVE (where the term comes from). There are still tiers, and different levels of meta gear post tiericide. The closest analog to DUST would be making sure that a STD Sentinel and a STD Commando were roughly equal in terms of their roles, and a PRO Assault would be roughly as good as a PRO Logic at their respective roles etc. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Shiruba Ryou Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 86	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:47:00 - [45] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Your looking at it the wrong way. What tier code would do is give MLT-ADV suits a fair fight vs a proto suit. The Proto suit will still be better and more expensive but the difference would be a lot smaller for example a proto suit compared to a MLT suit can have up to 30% more damage and double the HP. That's so unfair, and the learning curve and SP required to catch up is very steep. What tiercide would do is bring low level suits inline with proto suits, but will reward the higher level suits with a small advantage not a huge one. At the same time it will add variation with type II suits etc. Why would I run a suit that costs 10x the cost if it's advantage is very small? Look at EVE. An Omen costs roughly 8 mill, it's T2 counterpart the Zealot costs roughly 150 mill. That's nearly a 20x increase in price, and anyone who plays EVE knows that in a straight 1v1 fight, the Omen will loose every time. But if you bring 2-3 Omens, you can easily take out a Zealot with much less ISK on the line. I don't want fair fights. I want INTERESTING fights with tactics and different tiers of gear. It makes DUST fun, unique and exciting. With mixed levels of gear, the tactical situation is always changing and never the same. That's fun and interesting gameplay to me. Make DUST cookie-cutter where everyone's on a level playing field and you've got a **** game like Plannetside 2. If DUST tries to be a PS2 clone, it will fail miserably. Tiered gear and risk vs. ISK is literally the most interesting/fun aspect of DUST. In Eve you can also call in needed Support from anywhere in the cluster as needed. Your not stuck with defined teams. With suits with defined roles, tactics will have to emerge in order to use each suit to the est of its ability. Squad compositions and strategies will matter more. Your contradicting yourself by wanting interesting fights when the only real tactic in matches right now is to field the 1-2 biggest and strongest gear and overrun the opposition with it. Take a moment to think about how our combat would change from these enhancements and give when as IWS and others are saying a chance. Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fucking fruit salad.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 767	Posted - 2014.01.11 02:04:00 - [46] - Quote Shiruba Ryou wrote: Vell0cet wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Your looking at it the wrong way. What tier code would do is give MLT-ADV suits a fair fight vs a proto suit. The Proto suit will still be better and more expensive but the difference would be a lot smaller for example a proto suit compared to a MLT suit can have up to 30% more damage and double the HP. That's so unfair, and the learning curve and SP required to catch up is very steep. What tiercide would do is bring low level suits inline with proto suits, but will reward the higher level suits with a small advantage not a huge one. At the same time it will add variation with type II suits etc. Why would I run a suit that costs 10x the cost if it's advantage is very small? Look at EVE. An Omen costs roughly 8 mill, it's T2 counterpart the Zealot costs roughly 150 mill. That's nearly a 20x increase in price, and anyone who plays EVE knows that in a straight 1v1 fight, the Omen will loose every time. But if you bring 2-3 Omens, you can easily take out a Zealot with much less ISK on the line. I don't want fair fights. I want INTERESTING fights with tactics and different tiers of gear. It makes DUST fun, unique and exciting. With mixed levels of gear, the tactical situation is always changing and never the same. That's fun and interesting gameplay to me. Make DUST cookie-cutter where everyone's on a level playing field and you've got a **** game like Plannetside 2. If DUST tries to be a PS2 clone, it will fail miserably. Tiered gear and risk vs. ISK is literally the most interesting/fun aspect of DUST. In Eve you can also call in needed Support from anywhere in the cluster as needed. Your not stuck with defined teams. With suits with defined roles, tactics will have to emerge in order to use each suit to the est of its ability. Squad compositions and strategies will matter more. Your contradicting yourself by wanting interesting fights when the only real tactic in matches right now is to field the 1-2 biggest and strongest gear and overrun the opposition with it. Take a moment to think about how our combat would change from these enhancements and give what IWS and others are saying a chance. I don't have to take time to think about it, I can look at any other FPS game on the market and see how it works. Combat is shallow and meaningless. There are plenty of other games out there with roles, it's all the same, spawn, kill, die, respawn nothing matters. In DUST with tiers you have to weigh the risk of significant loss every time you respawn. One way to address the above is to make it financially unfeasible to run PRO 24/7. I think that would help significantly. Also with the lack of ISK in FW, better players are forced to run cheaper suits to support their FW habit. Again, that's an interesting dynamic. A newer player with say 5mill SP can put together a PRO fit and take down a vet with 30mill SP running basic gear to build up his wallet. It can work both ways. That's interesting as well. I personally really enjoy the challenge of running cheap suits against better-geared opponents. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11885	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:28:00 - [47] - Quote My plan calls for a fitting bonus to be given to all suits as you raise their required command level thus a player first stepping into the suit cannot equip prototype weapons and modules but as he puts more levels into it he can then afford to continue to upgrade the suits performance. The idea is not remove player progression at all but to shift its focus onto suit fittig and more extreme focus on making better fits for the playstyle thus fitting and how to fit the suit becomes the overall meta. A player who grasps the concept early and quickly an empower a suit as easily as a proto suit can by equipping the same exact but weaker which the module's own gulfs between bottom to top are not so massive as the one pronounced in proto suits verses militia due to slot disparity alone. (slots are if you done any math wizardry on how ccp concluded their balance designs are extremely weighted ) With the loss of the proto suits the isk cost on regular suits are going have to adjust to be affordable and common. This means the modules between metas are going to gulfen a bit more to emphasize risk versus reward still matters. This also cuts down on totally useless skills and empowers players earlier per level they unlock with suit command. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
lrian Locust Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 337	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:42:00 - [48] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Even the basic ship command skill in EVE gives some tiny little agility bonus... I agree! It sucks when you fill an SP sink hole of 700.000 SP and get... Nothing! SP drains are a drain on the likeability of the game. Perhaps tiercide would even help CCP to net some more online sales. It now takes so long to fill up those last 2 sink holes for a proto suit, that people don't care if they have to wait 6 weeks or 9 weeks to get it. Give every upgrade at least some advantage, so players get at least some feel of accomplishment.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 766	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:44:00 - [49] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: My plan calls for a fitting bonus to be given to all suits as you raise their required command level thus a player first stepping into the suit cannot equip prototype weapons and modules but as he puts more levels into it he can then afford to continue to upgrade the suits performance. The idea is not remove player progression at all but to shift its focus onto suit fittig and more extreme focus on making better fits for the playstyle thus fitting and how to fit the suit becomes the overall meta. A player who grasps the concept early and quickly an empower a suit as easily as a proto suit can by equipping the same exact but weaker which the module's own gulfs between bottom to top are not so massive as the one pronounced in proto suits verses militia due to slot disparity alone. (slots are if you done any math wizardry on how ccp concluded their balance designs are extremely weighted ) With the loss of the proto suits the isk cost on regular suits are going have to adjust to be affordable and common. This means the modules between metas are going to gulfen a bit more to emphasize risk versus reward still matters. This also cuts down on totally useless skills and empowers players earlier per level they unlock with suit command. What problem are you trying to solve? Is it closing the gulf between new players and vets? or the gulf between vets wearing good gear vs. vets wearing cheap gear? The second isn't really a problem and is part of what makes DUST so much fun. As for addressing the first, why wouldn't having an optional game mode restricted to players with less than some SP threshold not be a reasonable solution? Having a "kiddie pool" for noobs to build up SP to the point they can make a reasonably competitive fit seems to solve this problem without destroying the aspect that makes DUST so unique and interesting (this would be separate from the existing Academy since you don't want players learning what buttons do what to be in the same match with players who have 4.9million SP). It wouldn't require a MASSIVE rebalance of everything in the game. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4422	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:47:00 - [50] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM been nearly screaming with every chance we get. Well then let's make it louder. Keeping the tier system along with those bonuses would just make things worse than they are now. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

DildoMcnutz Science For Death 399	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:47:00 - [51] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM been nearly screaming with every chance we get. I don't care who needs to die, just make it happen.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2597	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:53:00 - [52] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: -snip- I'm not trying to start anything here, but we had something similar to this once, didn't we? The type IIs, I mean. Would you be behind the return of the type IIs? They offered a different sort of flexibility, giving up their sidearms for an equipment slot. Yes and no. There was still the tier system, STD-ADV-PRO, but you had two separate specializations within those suits, so it was half and half between what we have now, and what we want. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1488	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:00:00 - [53] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I'd love tiericide, but at the least I'd hope to have a uniform slot layout across all tiers. Slots are what we use to make our fitting and roles unique and individualized to our own preferences. They are something that we should always have, and not be the bargaining chips to balancing the game. Make our fitting unique but at the same time have a uniform slot layout across all tiers? What the hell is wrong with everyone? Layout of the slots is half of the uniqueness of the suit. You people want to play the most uniform boring game that it can be? Tiericide is a bad idea because who would use anything but the the best and why? Uniform slots would make the game even more repeatative than it is now and coupled with tiericide there might as well only be one suit and two guns. Your are stripping the game of diversity with every push towards uniformity of weapons and suits. This kind of thing is what will make me biomass my character because the point of the game is to be able to fit the suit like I want with things I worked hard for. I invested SP and ISK, all anyone wants to do is make all items the same tier and completely generic. What happened to this game? I am truely and honestly dissapointed to read these type of posts about tiericide. They are junk. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1488	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:04:00 - [54] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Vell0cet wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Your looking at it the wrong way. What tier code would do is give MLT-ADV suits a fair fight vs a proto suit. The Proto suit will still be better and more expensive but the difference would be a lot smaller for example a proto suit compared to a MLT suit can have up to 30% more damage and double the HP. That's so unfair, and the learning curve and SP required to catch up is very steep. What tiercide would do is bring low level suits inline with proto suits, but will reward the higher level suits with a small advantage not a huge one. At the same time it will add variation with type II suits etc. Why would I run a suit that costs 10x the cost if it's advantage is very small? Look at EVE. An Omen costs roughly 8 mill, it's T2 counterpart the Zealot costs roughly 150 mill. That's nearly a 20x increase in price, and anyone who plays EVE knows that in a straight 1v1 fight, the Omen will loose every time. But if you bring 2-3 Omens, you can easily take out a Zealot with much less ISK on the line. I don't want fair fights. I want INTERESTING fights with tactics and different tiers of gear. It makes DUST fun, unique and exciting. With mixed levels of gear, the tactical situation is always changing and never the same. That's fun and interesting gameplay to me. Make DUST cookie-cutter where everyone's on a level playing field and you've got a **** game like Plannetside 2. If DUST tries to be a PS2 clone, it will fail miserably. Tiered gear and risk vs. ISK is literally the most interesting/fun aspect of DUST. I bet the reward for destroying the Zealot is great... what's the reward for 3 mlt suits taking out a proto suit? Practically nothing. Actually it's just a chance for some of it's mods to drop. It's mostly the satisfaction of taking away someone's expensive toy, which is the same reward you get in DUST (and also a percent of the cost of the suit/fittings gets added to the pool to be distributed at the end of the match, so you get a bigger payout). Don't you get a warm and fuzzy feeling when you kill someone's proto? Is there any other FPS that delivers such a satisfying experience? They want uniform blandness for all things because having a different fit may cause them to lose. They have no pride in what they do because it is all about the grind, they have no imagination because all things should be the same and they have no sense of fun because everyone should be equal and have their hands held so it doesn't hurt so bad. These types of threads are the reason this game makes slow progress. No one wants hardcore, they all want win buttons that cannot be changed unless someone else has them. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 463	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:09:00 - [55] - Quote The purpose of tiericide is to introduce a greater diversity in fits. With tiers you simply have improved versions of the same few dropsuits. Without tiers we're free to spread out rather than up, so no suit would be better than any other, but there would be a larger difference between individual suits.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1084	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:10:00 - [56] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? No idea. I'm going to lurk on this page until someone explains it for me. Tiericide means "Kill the tiers" Basically a lot of us believe that a major problem with Dust's infantry combat is how unbalanced the game is between militia, standard, advanced, and proto fits. The idea of tiericide is that it would be better if everything was the same tier, thus there would be no tiers, and instead of spending skill points to move up the tiers you spend skill points to specialize and find your role. Every bonus that you add to your fits would come with an equal negative to balance it out and keep all fits on an even playing field. At least, that's how I think of tiericde. that's not even close to what tiericide means in eve. that's even kind of contrary to the way eve online works. a proto suit should be better than a basic suit, but a well skilled basic suit should be able to kill a poorly skilled proto. what are you guys going to do when they bring out tier two suits and gear? call for tiericide again?
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1491	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:20:00 - [57] - Quote Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: The purpose of tiericide is to introduce a greater diversity in fits. With tiers you simply have improved versions of the same few dropsuits. Without tiers we're free to spread out rather than up, so no suit would be better than any other, but there would be a larger difference between individual suits. Wrong. Tiericide allowed differntly bonuses ships be accessed at level one skill instead of having wait till level five to fly a different ship than at level one. The fits are different on improved. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1557	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:27:00 - [58] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero basically got the premise right there are ways to go about it though. A purist tericide would remove ALL meta levels. While this would be neat and players would grow outwards the game would be too flat for most people's liking. So generally there is a knock off version, one of lesser degree. For example the one I am currently advocating would remove basic and advanced frames and suits leaving players with prototype slot layouts as the only suit in each class entry. Then introducing two more suit entries at base classes that creating a 'tech 1' experience in which the suits are slightly skewed towards the roles but are able to fulfill many of them. Then the current tech 2 suits get an additional suit and they're heavily skewed into very specific roles. For example Light Frames under my model would have three types GK. 0 GK. 1 Gk. 2 The slot layout of 0 would suggest high speed, high stealth, or high mobility. Slot layout of Gk. 1 would suggest high utility, the stats and slots can suggest utility, sabotage, intel, while the third suit seems deemingly more worthy of being either a light combat scout or a pilot of some sort or a covert or skirmish. squad leader. but thats the light frames and if any bonuses would support a broad range of modules instead of one or two but the bonus overall is a bit weak. Then with Tech 2 we get specialist suits that are laser focused. A scout suit designed purely for infiltration, gets bonuses for being able to not only cloak but dodge scanners as well and assassinate players with a damage bonus to melee and other short ranged weapons. Its brother suit would be more suited to being a saboteur giving up some speed and attack for ability to set more traps covertly and not get caught doing so. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdDdKYjRQT193VDlfbFM5b0FwdlB5Ymc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 while its missing stats or bonuses this is what my model could look like in tree format. 1.0-1.7; gunlogi and falchion were a good example of a basic frame and then a tech 2 hull Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1558	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:29:00 - [59] - Quote the only reason the community isnt backing yall 100% is bc most ppl dont know what it is Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1538	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:41:00 - [60] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I'd love tiericide, but at the least I'd hope to have a uniform slot layout across all tiers. Slots are what we use to make our fitting and roles unique and individualized to our own preferences. They are something that we should always have, and not be the bargaining chips to balancing the game. Make our fitting unique but at the same time have a uniform slot layout across all tiers? What the hell is wrong with everyone? Layout of the slots is half of the uniqueness of the suit. You people want to play the most uniform boring game that it can be? Tiericide is a bad idea because who would use anything but the the best and why? Uniform slots would make the game even more repeatative than it is now and coupled with tiericide there might as well only be one suit and two guns. Your are stripping the game of diversity with every push towards uniformity of weapons and suits. This kind of thing is what will make me biomass my character because the point of the game is to be able to fit the suit like I want with things I worked hard for. I invested SP and ISK, all anyone wants to do is make all items the same tier and completely generic. What happened to this game? I am truely and honestly dissapointed to read these type of posts about tiericide. They are junk. What diversity there is no diversity know? Explain to me how diversity is having a bunch of crappy suits to be fed as fodder to proto suits. That's not diversity that's just having a great advantage. Tiericide calls for providing an even field, he'll if every suit didn't have to worry about tanking alpha damage we would see MODULES which are what make or break suits actually meaning something. The only modules that matter are damage modifers, shields, and armor. Diversity should come from the role you play on the field now how weak/strong your suit is because it is the same suit as the other guy except yours has more slots.

ReGnYuM Imperfects 1783	Posted - 2014.01.11 05:05:00 - [61] - Quote I would semi support this if we actually had a concrete understanding of each role and its given purpose. It seems CCP is still trying to define many roles. Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1491	Posted - 2014.01.11 05:23:00 - [62] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I'd love tiericide, but at the least I'd hope to have a uniform slot layout across all tiers. Slots are what we use to make our fitting and roles unique and individualized to our own preferences. They are something that we should always have, and not be the bargaining chips to balancing the game. Make our fitting unique but at the same time have a uniform slot layout across all tiers? What the hell is wrong with everyone? Layout of the slots is half of the uniqueness of the suit. You people want to play the most uniform boring game that it can be? Tiericide is a bad idea because who would use anything but the the best and why? Uniform slots would make the game even more repeatative than it is now and coupled with tiericide there might as well only be one suit and two guns. Your are stripping the game of diversity with every push towards uniformity of weapons and suits. This kind of thing is what will make me biomass my character because the point of the game is to be able to fit the suit like I want with things I worked hard for. I invested SP and ISK, all anyone wants to do is make all items the same tier and completely generic. What happened to this game? I am truely and honestly dissapointed to read these type of posts about tiericide. They are junk. What diversity there is no diversity know? Explain to me how diversity is having a bunch of crappy suits to be fed as fodder to proto suits. That's not diversity that's just having a huge advantage, that's like bringing a pen to a gun fight and saying it a fair fight because you have experience with the gun. Tiericide calls for providing an even field, he'll if every suit didn't have to worry about tanking alpha damage we would see MODULES which are what make or break suits actually meaning something. The only modules that matter are damage modifers, shields, and armor. Diversity should come from the role you play on the field now how weak/strong your suit is; because it is the same suit as the other guy except yours has more slots that's so diverse! I can run a starter fit in a public match on any day and be competitive and make ISK. I can run BPO suits with mid level gear in FW and do decent. I don't do PC because I don't enjoy it. Saying that we all should be playing on an even field is bad. I use a BPO AR/SMG on Templar suit 90% of the time and I suck at FPSs. I have the money to run all gear at my level but it isn't needed to have fun, be profitable or place high on the leader boards. The problems are not from the tiers in which our gear comes from. The problems with proto stomping is the way we are placed matches. If we were separated by meta it would be fine because the fit would matter and the battlefields would be level and skill more relevant. People say we don't have the numbers to do that but I disagree because each level of security status has its own meta value to be met. Yeah you might be able to fit a proto weapon on a standard suit but that would be all. Fits count more and skill counts more. If there isn't the right number of players then move sec stat. Just like PVP in EVE, can't find a good fight? Move on and try harder. Meta numbers would only stop proto stomps. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1491	Posted - 2014.01.11 05:25:00 - [63] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: My plan calls for a fitting bonus to be given to all suits as you raise their required command level thus a player first stepping into the suit cannot equip prototype weapons and modules but as he puts more levels into it he can then afford to continue to upgrade the suits performance. The idea is not remove player progression at all but to shift its focus onto suit fittig and more extreme focus on making better fits for the playstyle thus fitting and how to fit the suit becomes the overall meta. A player who grasps the concept early and quickly an empower a suit as easily as a proto suit can by equipping the same exact but weaker which the module's own gulfs between bottom to top are not so massive as the one pronounced in proto suits verses militia due to slot disparity alone. (slots are if you done any math wizardry on how ccp concluded their balance designs are extremely weighted ) With the loss of the proto suits the isk cost on regular suits are going have to adjust to be affordable and common. This means the modules between metas are going to gulfen a bit more to emphasize risk versus reward still matters. This also cuts down on totally useless skills and empowers players earlier per level they unlock with suit command. If you get rid of proto suits then advanced become the new proto and the same problems are still here until all suits are the same. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1491	Posted - 2014.01.11 05:26:00 - [64] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Tiericide gets my vote. There's a number of good reasons for it, but the main benefit is that new players have a (slightly) more even playing field, which will help player retention. How? GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Kharga Lum Xeno Labs Security 217	Posted - 2014.01.11 05:33:00 - [65] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero basically got the premise right there are ways to go about it though. A purist tericide would remove ALL meta levels. While this would be neat and players would grow outwards the game would be too flat for most people's liking. So generally there is a knock off version, one of lesser degree. For example the one I am currently advocating would remove basic and advanced frames and suits leaving players with prototype slot layouts as the only suit in each class entry. Then introducing two more suit entries at base classes that creating a 'tech 1' experience in which the suits are slightly skewed towards the roles but are able to fulfill many of them. Then the current tech 2 suits get an additional suit and they're heavily skewed into very specific roles. For example Light Frames under my model would have three types GK. 0 GK. 1 Gk. 2 The slot layout of 0 would suggest high speed, high stealth, or high mobility. Slot layout of Gk. 1 would suggest high utility, the stats and slots can suggest utility, sabotage, intel, while the third suit seems deemingly more worthy of being either a light combat scout or a pilot of some sort or a covert or skirmish. squad leader. but thats the light frames and if any bonuses would support a broad range of modules instead of one or two but the bonus overall is a bit weak. Then with Tech 2 we get specialist suits that are laser focused. A scout suit designed purely for infiltration, gets bonuses for being able to not only cloak but dodge scanners as well and assassinate players with a damage bonus to melee and other short ranged weapons. Its brother suit would be more suited to being a saboteur giving up some speed and attack for ability to set more traps covertly and not get caught doing so. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdDdKYjRQT193VDlfbFM5b0FwdlB5Ymc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 while its missing stats or bonuses this is what my model could look like in tree format. As awesome as this is, it's an Eve comparison. The model works but, if trends continue, the Dust development team will oppose any/all ideas, models and methods imported from Eve. Similar comparisons with the Cloak and there have been a few very detailed methods of vehicle capacitor implementation that were ignored in favour of this vehicle "wave" garbage we have now. Despite this wonderful plan making me want to have your babies, it has that sweet flavour of Eve in it so I expect it to be rejected on that alone.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11898	Posted - 2014.01.11 05:40:00 - [66] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: My plan calls for a fitting bonus to be given to all suits as you raise their required command level thus a player first stepping into the suit cannot equip prototype weapons and modules but as he puts more levels into it he can then afford to continue to upgrade the suits performance. The idea is not remove player progression at all but to shift its focus onto suit fittig and more extreme focus on making better fits for the playstyle thus fitting and how to fit the suit becomes the overall meta. A player who grasps the concept early and quickly an empower a suit as easily as a proto suit can by equipping the same exact but weaker which the module's own gulfs between bottom to top are not so massive as the one pronounced in proto suits verses militia due to slot disparity alone. (slots are if you done any math wizardry on how ccp concluded their balance designs are extremely weighted ) With the loss of the proto suits the isk cost on regular suits are going have to adjust to be affordable and common. This means the modules between metas are going to gulfen a bit more to emphasize risk versus reward still matters. This also cuts down on totally useless skills and empowers players earlier per level they unlock with suit command. If you get rid of proto suits then advanced become the new proto and the same problems are still here until all suits are the same. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdDdKYjRQT193VDlfbFM5b0FwdlB5Ymc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 Read this chart again and try to understand it then because you're talking out of your imagination. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1492	Posted - 2014.01.11 06:15:00 - [67] - Quote I am confused then, I see suits differently than almost everyone else in the world evidently. I know this isn't EVE but they did three things perfect. The ablity to go anywhere, the economy and the ship bonuses we have now. Dust does none of these things and it sucks. We have the exact same ideas about needs to be done and I just don't understand how you describe it. The end result is almost the same. What I am calling tiers are basically the same things you are callling tec. I am not worried about your ideas like I am others. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1371	Posted - 2014.01.11 06:33:00 - [68] - Quote /support
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11901	Posted - 2014.01.11 06:38:00 - [69] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: I am confused then, I see suits differently than almost everyone else in the world evidently. I know this isn't EVE but they did three things perfect. The ablity to go anywhere, the economy and the ship bonuses we have now. Dust does none of these things and it sucks. We have the exact same ideas about needs to be done and I just don't understand how you describe it. The end result is almost the same. What I am calling tiers are basically the same things you are callling tec. I am not worried about your ideas like I am others. New players hops into a new suit for the first time. He wont have access nor the ability to fit the best gear on that suit he first unlocked. Over time, he will gain that ability through skill training, he will learn how to fit it better and soon not only can he go up against a vet, he is a vet now. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1492	Posted - 2014.01.11 07:12:00 - [70] - Quote We're on the same page but different paragraph. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson

Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 524	Posted - 2014.01.11 08:01:00 - [71] - Quote Would modules remain tiered? How would the fitting of these be scaled with leveling up your suit? Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Jebus McKing Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 226	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:36:00 - [72] - Quote I fully support the idea of a tiercide. @JebusMcKing // Rifle stats comparison spreadsheet. ò_Ô
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 983	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:27:00 - [73] - Quote I support tiericide. FEEDBACK: Analysis on 1.7 tank functionality
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11916	Posted - 2014.01.11 17:18:00 - [74] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Would modules remain tiered? How would the fitting of these be scaled with leveling up your suit? There are two ways going about this. Make the suit more capable of fitting as it skills up or Eve does this by making modules of the higher (and lower) tiers able to fit but also higher teir equipment in eve typically are very very expensive (officer modules for example costs well over 10x cost of the ship and the ship itself is far more than the average suit by an order of 10-20x) My plan has a bit of both. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Piercing Serenity Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 495	Posted - 2014.01.11 17:50:00 - [75] - Quote Just to clear up some confusion I've seen in the thread... One of the biggest problems that we have in DUST is that many suits go unused because they are objectively worse than the tier above them. If you were to fight a PC match, you would never choose an advanced suit over a proto suit, because the proto suit is just all around better. The benefits to tiericide is that "Proto" suits are no longer all around better than every other suit. Instead, you would say that a Tech 1 Caldari suit is better for pushing objectives while the GK.2 is better for ninja hacking because of its bonus. We would move away from "The suit is better because its proto" and more towards "This suit is better because of its inherent bonuses Tiericide is not about reducing the skill gap between experienced players and new players. In fact, its designed to shift more emphasis on individual player skill and the synergy between that player's play style and the suits that they pick DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Renegade Alliance 777	Posted - 2014.01.11 18:14:00 - [76] - Quote TL;DR of thread We're tired of getting pwned by protos, we don't like that vets have an advantage because they played longer. Take away their protos. Even though thats the whole reason players come back to cap every week. Also if tiercide still had the best fits being substantially better & more expensive, then there is LITERALLY NO REASON to do it. It'd be the exact same as it is now, players run the best they got- period. Whereas if tiercide was like how tanks just got esentially tiercided, well...ya that worked out so well for all the guys who spent SP in them right... Tiercide=instant death to whats left of dust. Eve actually HAS different roles, like scouting, mining, being stealthy etc. A plethora of role that can have different bonuses, as well as nearly unlimited players taking part in a battle at once. Dust is an FPS, our role is to kill. End of story. We play this game because we want more SP to help us kill and win. Tiericide would just kill our reason to cap, and kill our reason to play as such. In addition to pissing off very very many vets already PO'ed about TTK being so low that new players w/ militia gear & AA cut through protos like butter. That's "MR." Pothead to you.
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 286	Posted - 2014.01.11 18:32:00 - [77] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM been nearly screaming with every chance we get. Then its time they listen, for the sake of balance and getting real feedback as to how a drop suit fares in battle this is the best solution, if there is not adv or proto then everyone is on a level playing field and the variants of suits can be balanced against each other on their own merit also to balence them so all modules are equally as effective in their own way no module should be considered useless but alas there are many.
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 99	Posted - 2014.01.11 19:42:00 - [78] - Quote Note to Iron Saber Wolf, I FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM NOW WITH THE TIERICIDE!!! +1 Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet. Tends to flip the table when seeing the words: YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 405	Posted - 2014.01.11 20:08:00 - [79] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dj grammer wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Lucrezia LeGrand wrote: low genius wrote: people throw that word around. what do you guys think tiericide means? No idea. I'm going to lurk on this page until someone explains it for me. Tiericide means "Kill the tiers" Basically a lot of us believe that a major problem with Dust's infantry combat is how unbalanced the game is between militia, standard, advanced, and proto fits. The idea of tiericide is that it would be better if everything was the same tier, thus there would be no tiers, and instead of spending skill points to move up the tiers you spend skill points to specialize and find your role. Every bonus that you add to your fits would come with an equal negative to balance it out and keep all fits on an even playing field. At least, that's how I think of tiericde. Essentially they, the tiericide parade, are tuning the uniqueness of DUST 514's gameplay into a Call of Duty/Battlefield FPS feel gameplay. When you think about it, this was done to all LAVs and HAVs. Notice there is little to no difference between a soma and a madruger. What should had happen was holding the new players longer in Academy up to 3 million skill points or 100,000 WarPoints. Whatever comes first. Absolutely wrong. A true tetricide would eliminate the entire concept that X item requires Y skill level over Z item's requirement therefore X is better than Z. Under Teiridice, Y skill unlocks both Z and X at the same time, both Z and X are equally effective but Z and X have different approaches to the job it is meant to do under skill decription of Y. In the case of tanks, we'd would train HAV to I, and unlock the Gunnlogi a Light battle tank, then a second tank let's call it the Parashu a bigger heavier slower moving HAV with higher defenses, both HAVs fit the same type of equipment and can even have similar type of fittings even and both can do a wide variety of roles still from glass cannon point defense to front line brawlers, but the two play entirely different because of the bonuses, innate stats and nature of the vehicle itself. Then throw in tech 1 and tech 2 concepts from eve. Both of these Tanks get highly specialized versions, Who knows maybe the Gunnlogis tech 2 cousin is a hover tank. While the Parashu becomes something more akin to a mobile fortress, their tech 1 cousins have far more freedom while the tech 2 versions are stuck with a very specific role they must fit into. There may be more than one contender in each catagory. Ishkone may think the best way to build a mobile fortress is overwhelming and accurate firepower while Ladai belives defense is the best option and Kalakaloina opts for stealth instead. All three fullfill the same roles but all three found different ways to skin the same cat. Now apply this to infantry. I read hover tank and stopped reading. Give me hover tanks please. No, but all down for teirecide Nuff Said
Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 110	Posted - 2014.01.11 23:50:00 - [80] - Quote Page 4?! I think not!

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 795	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:09:00 - [81] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Even IF Militia suits had no Active Skill bonuses from the Mercenary... So everyone wearing Militia items don't have their skills register. Then have a Game mode where it's militia suits only is even a better option. I would prefer a game that continues to scale as it grows. It creates Specialized mercenaries and roles.. Not a bunch of mercenaries that are maxed out or near maxed out in every role and class in the game "zzzzzzz". It dumbs things down to make it "easy" because it takes to long? who wants a game they can get to the end of so quick? \I don't want that regardless if I'm on this toon or my newly made 900k SP logistics toon. I do not like green egg's and ham, I do not like them, Sam I am. I don't agree we need to get rid of the different Tier's in those classes, that have not even been defined yet. Or that DUST is even close to the max capabilities of what Tiers could be, for example Tech II?. Regardless of how easy or accessible you make the "Aiming" or the "Equipment and Weapons" or having a module that makes you "See all the enemies" it will not make a new FPS player or new to a CCP game player be good at it or stand a chance magically. The ONLY way we could or CAN, is to allow players to learn how to play a FPS shooter game with EVE like Elements and there is going to have to be a teaching process. Not hold their hands with Magentic bullets and tracking, Big boy suits in a couple weeks because that will suddenly make them better?(it never did for me learning) a module to show the where the fight is but don't explain how to use it? We need Emphasis on Classes, Heavy specializations in Races and then into Tier's (and then different technology levels... )and Heavy tutorials on those classes. We need a CCP game in all it's glory. not a Dumbed down CCP game. The key factor in everything is the Learning curve in EVE and avoiding that transition here while offering the massive depth capabilities. And for that we need very good explanations for new players coming into DUST, on HOW TO PLAY IT... not give them a bunch of stuff without explanation or even having time learning how to use it. We need to focus around the learning curve of the NPE and the advancement in DUST around that. At no point ever should someone a month out be coming up against You, Or a lot from the absolute slayer groups like Nyain, Imps, A.E., O.H.. etc.. Those corporation markers may bring some animosity from some Mercenaries, but regardless of how you scale the suits so a new player has more tools to face these people they will get destroyed. You take an all star group of top 10 dust'ers from the forum lists. then take a top 10 FPS list from the world with no DUST exp. and put them all in battle academy in all the same situation right now. The Experience and time playing this game will trump any self thoughts of greatness every time. and that is the fact here we have to face, and start tailoring around that not dumbing a CCP game down because its a F2p game and it should be "easy"
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11961	Posted - 2014.01.12 02:48:00 - [82] - Quote Thing is though shooter players are capable to be more in tune with knowing enemy types. If especially if the enemy arch type is strong enough in traits to warrant a true threat on a vector that the shooter player may not be able to deal with. Teiricide can accomplish this goal as well making the game more pronounced and defined in many classes and range of abilities. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1546	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:00:00 - [83] - Quote I think the major issue people are having with tiercide is that they assume current suit prices will stay the same. For the sake of argument assume prices for suits will either be all the same since all suits are the "same" or they will go up at a very small negligible rate. Suit price is obviously a balancing factor but before we apply this mechanic fully we have to take into consideration fun (this is a game) ,And the NPE.
Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 2459	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:04:00 - [84] - Quote hooray tieracide \o/ "Imagine a world where hypothetical thoughts didn't exist" -Draxus Prime Closed Beta Vet Nova Knife Proficeiney 5 \o/
XofCitoac Axis of Chaos 5	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:09:00 - [85] - Quote look... TIERICIDE isnt the answer... the MOST LOGICAL action is to reimplement the BATTLE MODES (MLT-STD / MLT-ADV / MLT-PRO) i know it failed before, but it was due to UNDERPOPULOUS of the CLOSED BETA ... DO THIS and WATCH the numbers increase in the playerbase... STOP listening to the BORED NO-LIFER VETS, that are bored because they ran all the cannon fodder off... if DUST 514 is to have longevity THIS is the best option.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1546	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:12:00 - [86] - Quote XofCitoac wrote: look... TIERICIDE isnt the answer... the MOST LOGICAL action is to reimplement the BATTLE MODES (MLT-STD / MLT-ADV / MLT-PRO) i know it failed before, but it was due to UNDERPOPULOUS of the CLOSED BETA ... DO THIS and WATCH the numbers increase in the playerbase... STOP listening to the BORED NO-LIFER VETS, that are bored because they ran all the cannon fodder off... if DUST 514 is to have longevity THIS is the best option. This is stupid and turns Dust 514 into some sort of "arena" shooter. It makes sense in theory but what will eventually end up doing is increasing battle waiting times and probably increase lag to the server. And it still does not solve the proto stomping issues. You don't fix a problem by separating it and putting it into its own little box...
Nulldust Codex Troopers 5	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:51:00 - [87] - Quote In chess, you wouldn't gimp your opponent by removing their pieces before the game start and call that a good game. So too we wouldn't have eHP and firepower disparity between vets and new players and call that a good game. My suggestion is just remove these only: remove all advanced weapons and above; remove all shield extenders, armor plates, and damage modifier modules. In addition, remove all skill proficiencies that add to weapon damage or eHP. Higher tiers suits/vehicles with more slots are specialized for using non-combat/secondary modules. Diversity and specialization (speed, resilience, CPU/PC upgrade for better equipment, stealthiness, passive scanning, etc.) remain but a proto fitting would have the same eHP and firepower as its militia counterpart. Back to the chess analogy, you can plate your pieces in your favorite metal but both sides must have the standard number and pieces. BTW give some likes please.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11968	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:09:00 - [88] - Quote XofCitoac wrote: look... TIERICIDE isnt the answer... the MOST LOGICAL action is to reimplement the BATTLE MODES (MLT-STD / MLT-ADV / MLT-PRO) i know it failed before, but it was due to UNDERPOPULOUS of the CLOSED BETA ... DO THIS and WATCH the numbers increase in the playerbase... STOP listening to the BORED NO-LIFER VETS, that are bored because they ran all the cannon fodder off... if DUST 514 is to have longevity THIS is the best option. This has yet to work. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4741	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:15:00 - [89] - Quote XofCitoac wrote: look... TIERICIDE isnt the answer... the MOST LOGICAL action is to reimplement the BATTLE MODES (MLT-STD / MLT-ADV / MLT-PRO) i know it failed before, but it was due to UNDERPOPULOUS of the CLOSED BETA ... DO THIS and WATCH the numbers increase in the playerbase... STOP listening to the BORED NO-LIFER VETS, that are bored because they ran all the cannon fodder off... if DUST 514 is to have longevity THIS is the best option. I have to go with everyone else here, this is a terrible idea. All this does is a) Segregate an already small player base and b) Create no incentive for moving up the tiers I mean, if you could play a MLT-STD battle mode and only need to use STD suits to be at the top of the food chain, why would you care to specialize further? ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 795	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:37:00 - [90] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: XofCitoac wrote: look... TIERICIDE isnt the answer... the MOST LOGICAL action is to reimplement the BATTLE MODES (MLT-STD / MLT-ADV / MLT-PRO) i know it failed before, but it was due to UNDERPOPULOUS of the CLOSED BETA ... DO THIS and WATCH the numbers increase in the playerbase... STOP listening to the BORED NO-LIFER VETS, that are bored because they ran all the cannon fodder off... if DUST 514 is to have longevity THIS is the best option. I have to go with everyone else here, this is a terrible idea. All this does is a) Segregate an already small player base and b) Create no incentive for moving up the tiers I mean, if you could play a MLT-STD battle mode and only need to use STD suits to be at the top of the food chain, why would you care to specialize further? RPS: How do you have persistence in a match-based game? CCP Wolfman wrote: Thomas: We have, much like EVE GÇô in fact exactly like EVE! GÇô we have different security levels. We have high security, low security, and nulsec, where anything goes. And thatGÇÖs where weGÇÖre pretty much hands off. When youGÇÖre in highsec we have NPC generated battles, so youGÇÖll always be able to find a battle, youGÇÖre able to grind and get money, but without being exposed to the depth building an infrastructure on the surface of planets, things like that. But then as you play through into the lower levels of security it starts to be about: okay, IGÇÖve got the hang of the game, IGÇÖve got a group of friends, weGÇÖve formed a corporation, and weGÇÖve got backing from some EVE members for the corporation, so weGÇÖre going to hire a war barge, weGÇÖre going to load it up with supplies, and weGÇÖre going to try to attack this location. WeGÇÖre going to get our first foothold on a planet. And that is all scheduled and controlled. Those matches are planned, and the defenders are warned in advance so they have the opportunity to defend. Once you get into that kind of game youGÇÖre making a larger commitment in terms of time to be able to defend your things. And so the more you invest, the more commitment you have to have to protect whatGÇÖs yours. But thereGÇÖs always matches rolling in highsec.

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4742	Posted - 2014.01.12 05:40:00 - [91] - Quote Bethy, where in there did Wolfman say they wanted to restrict certain meta levels based on security level? ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Intara Direct Action Caldari State 339	Posted - 2014.01.12 06:07:00 - [92] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: We have all read the rumors and speculation and nobody knows exactly what is going to happen. What we do know is that CCP main focus is dropsuits. So it's time they know we want tiercide. This is JUST what I am talking about and am so passionately against . YES AGAINST WITH A PASSION !!!!! LOOK AT THE VEHICLES AND THEIR SKILL TREE AND TELL ME THAT IS CUSTOMINZATION . Boring , plain , bland , no customizing , no fun , no since of personalization just plain NO !!!!! That would kill the game , kill the infantry skill tree , kill the suits and I can see it now , everyone running around with the same HP's just like tanks , boring and plain mods that just give one set of skills in a selected and shortsighted boundaries with no difference making ability . I for one don't want to run around looking like clones of any of you and if CCP adopts this I for one will quit and leave and I won't spend another dime on this game until the drop of the racial suits so I can see if they cater to all of those who call for this shortsightedness and shallow way of thinking . I love the fact that I see the same suits but with different HP's and different standards but if they cater to YOUR opinion then , just like with the vehicles , that will all change . Look at the tanks , boring and plain . I use to love seeing tanks with different HP's and different items on their fits ... what do you see now ..??.. the same tanks with the same HP values and if CCP caters to the will of most of you , suits will be and look the same . This is silly and the notion of the fact that most of you are trying to kill this game is beyond reasoning . Look at the tanks and how boring they are and now YOU are trying to do the same to the suits . You couldn't package $h!T up anyway other than in an attempt to make it look like it's less than , but I can see threw YOUR trickery . CCP PLEASE DON'T LISTEN TO THEM UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO KILL THIS GAME and by listening to those who are calling for this form of blandness , that is what you are doing . Future Caldari Heavy so watch out for this Sumo Shinobi with a Caldari HMG .
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 798	Posted - 2014.01.12 06:09:00 - [93] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Bethy, where in there did Wolfman say they wanted to restrict certain meta levels based on security level? You guys are basing these arguments on simple pub matches in high sec. We don't even have what they where talking about in this game 3 years ago so people actually move up. Regardless of what tools you give new players out of the gate no couple month old player should be going up against a vet of 6+++ unless carried or pulled in by them. this..... "Teiricide" is such a waste of time for a problem that exists simply by lack of the systems originally designed for DUST. Everyone here wastes so much time on pointless crap for DUST. Nerf, Buff, Nerf cycle for 8 months... Automated matchmaking systems in a sandbox universe? Aim Assist ..... Actually REMOVING content(part of that nerf, buff cycle?).... its endless... Lets just get the game out.. lets get the mission statement from CCP Rouge... Because with the TTK, The Aim Assist, Automated Matchmaking, Orbital kill streaks in Pubs, OHKO weapons... This game is becoming Battle-duty in space.. And a vast majority of us that are casual but look for a challenging gaming experience never once came here for this. We Came here for what was advertised by a developing company known to deliver that kind of experience. "RPS: Do you think thereGÇÖs evidence that thereGÇÖs a hardcore in the PS3 community? This isnGÇÖt Modern Warfare." CCP Wolfman wrote: Thomas: If you look at Modern Warfare or games like that, you see players dedicating enormous amounts of time, and what weGÇÖre offering players is that theyGÇÖre not just going to be endlessly fighting the same battle and moving up and down some abstract leaderboard and unlocking gear. YouGÇÖre actually going to be part of a universe. ItGÇÖs not just another battle. ItGÇÖs actually your planet and this bugger over here is trying to take it. You didnGÇÖt just spend the last two weeks moving up to position 58 and unlocking this gear. You spent it investing in this space! And these other guys over here, if you lose, theyGÇÖre going to lose! And theyGÇÖre not even involved, they just happened to be there. So thereGÇÖs more at stake. I think itGÇÖs going to be interesting to see what kind of player it is going to attract. We were really interested in this idea. We thought, this is the kind of game that IGÇÖd like to play. We feel that thereGÇÖs got to be other people out there too. Torfi Frans +¦lafsson wrote: WeGÇÖre pretty sure that they want to do this. They just havenGÇÖt had the opportunity yet.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Intara Direct Action Caldari State 340	Posted - 2014.01.12 06:26:00 - [94] - Quote I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull &^% could really care less about this game . This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ??? That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting . I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game . The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base . All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such . I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ." Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins . Future Caldari Heavy so watch out for this Sumo Shinobi with a Caldari HMG .
Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 110	Posted - 2014.01.12 07:26:00 - [95] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull &^% could really care less about this game . This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ??? That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting . I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game . The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base . All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such . I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ." Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins . Holy **** dude. No one is wanting to strip the suits back down to 1-size-fits-all again. I think we all had enough of that. We're talking about adding greater diversity in the suits, their bonuses, etc..Is it really that complicated to understand?
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 391	Posted - 2014.01.12 07:51:00 - [96] - Quote No. Removing one of the most unique aspects of Dust is not worth it. Especially when: A.) It would not help to balance matchmaking. Not one. Little. Bit. B.) There are actual productive ways we could go about balancing matchmaking. Who cares what some sniper has to say
Thanatos 716 Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 147	Posted - 2014.01.12 10:24:00 - [97] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: No. Removing one of the most unique aspects of Dust is not worth it. Especially when: A.) It would not help to balance matchmaking. Not one. Little. Bit. B.) There are actual productive ways we could go about balancing matchmaking. Perhaps you'd get your point across better if you tell us the more productive ways instead of just saying they exist. "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1548	Posted - 2014.01.12 13:23:00 - [98] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull &^% could really care less about this game . This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ??? That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting . I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game . The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base . All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such . I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ." Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins . " You people really don't want any competition at all . Where is the competition in having a mlt suit go against a proto suit lol? This is a rather contradictory statement to defend what we have now vs tiercide. But regardless let's get out of the present and let's look into the future, explain to me how this system will work when we have PVE? When we have something more than mercenaries in a lobby shooter things like actually conquering and taking planets, exploring planets, raiding crap all that good stuff... The majority of new mmos have established systems where new players are able to compete with vets. There is no competition once you at prototype level because you didn't have competition at basic level. When they game was launched most of us already had the SP saved up to go proto. But there is such a disconnection between the proto player and the basic player that it's more than just skill. The suit defines the player not the player. This is what I am hoping tiercide fixes, I want to be able to win matches because of my skill not my suit, I want to die because the other player has skill not because of his suit. And new players should be able to experience the game like this. Not only will tiercide help the NPE but it will also pave the way for a more competitive game and lay down some foundations for the PVE/MMO balance. And as far as competitive goes it will be easier to fix TTK issues, weapon balance, etc if there weren't 4 scales to balance.
Adelia Lafayette Science For Death 544	Posted - 2014.01.12 14:17:00 - [99] - Quote I support teircide. Assault dropship gets blown up.... (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"... ..."I'm back"
BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 615	Posted - 2014.01.12 14:54:00 - [100] - Quote LOL at Uber l33t space ship pew pew geeks calling for tiercide. Meh, F2P Lobby Shooter BattleDuty 514 Working as intended.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 801	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:31:00 - [101] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull &^% could really care less about this game . This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ??? That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting . I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game . The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base . All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such . I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ." Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins . " You people really don't want any competition at all . Where is the competition in having a mlt suit go against a proto suit lol? This is a rather contradictory statement to defend what we have now vs tiercide. But regardless let's get out of the present and let's look into the future, explain to me how this system will work when we have PVE? When we have something more than mercenaries in a lobby shooter things like actually conquering and taking planets, exploring planets, raiding crap all that good stuff... The majority of new mmos have established systems where new players are able to compete with vets. There is no competition once you at prototype level because you didn't have competition at basic level. When they game was launched most of us already had the SP saved up to go proto. But there is such a disconnection between the proto player and the basic player that it's more than just skill. The suit defines the player not the player. This is what I am hoping tiercide fixes, I want to be able to win matches because of my skill not my suit, I want to die because the other player has skill not because of his suit. And new players should be able to experience the game like this. Not only will tiercide help the NPE but it will also pave the way for a more competitive game and lay down some foundations for the PVE/MMO balance. And as far as competitive goes it will be easier to fix TTK issues, weapon balance, etc if there weren't 4 scales to balance. What your asking for is the removal of Aim Assist. if you want this to be a skill based game. A better suit in Chromosome was just more of a challenge. Now? A better suit with AA? = My AA locks, Your AA locks, Skillpoints + Suit + weapon = winner That's where skill went in DUST. This doesn't offer diversity its "Dumbing" the game down because of High Sec. pub's having vets in them non stop. we will trade Diversity in fitting suit's for a generalized cookie cutter system. Its sick.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1552	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:37:00 - [102] - Quote Bethhy wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull &^% could really care less about this game . This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ??? That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting . I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game . The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base . All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such . I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ." Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins . " You people really don't want any competition at all . Where is the competition in having a mlt suit go against a proto suit lol? This is a rather contradictory statement to defend what we have now vs tiercide. But regardless let's get out of the present and let's look into the future, explain to me how this system will work when we have PVE? When we have something more than mercenaries in a lobby shooter things like actually conquering and taking planets, exploring planets, raiding crap all that good stuff... The majority of new mmos have established systems where new players are able to compete with vets. There is no competition once you at prototype level because you didn't have competition at basic level. When they game was launched most of us already had the SP saved up to go proto. But there is such a disconnection between the proto player and the basic player that it's more than just skill. The suit defines the player not the player. This is what I am hoping tiercide fixes, I want to be able to win matches because of my skill not my suit, I want to die because the other player has skill not because of his suit. And new players should be able to experience the game like this. Not only will tiercide help the NPE but it will also pave the way for a more competitive game and lay down some foundations for the PVE/MMO balance. And as far as competitive goes it will be easier to fix TTK issues, weapon balance, etc if there weren't 4 scales to balance. What your asking for is the removal of Aim Assist. if you want this to be a skill based game. A better suit in Chromosome was just more of a challenge. Now? A better suit with AA? = My AA locks, Your AA locks, Skillpoints + Suit + weapon = winner That's where skill went in DUST. This doesn't offer diversity its "Dumbing" the game down because of High Sec. pub's having vets in them non stop. we will trade Diversity in fitting suit's for a generalized cookie cutter system. Its sick. Every fps has AA, AA has nothing to do with it. The game is already dumbed down with the only modules that matter being armor, shields, and damage modifiers... If we could make suits on an equal level then other modules will matter and that in itself will increase diversity ten times higher than what we have now, which is null to begin with...
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 801	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:43:00 - [103] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Bethhy wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull &^% could really care less about this game . This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ??? That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting . I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game . The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base . All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such . I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ." Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins . " You people really don't want any competition at all . Where is the competition in having a mlt suit go against a proto suit lol? This is a rather contradictory statement to defend what we have now vs tiercide. But regardless let's get out of the present and let's look into the future, explain to me how this system will work when we have PVE? When we have something more than mercenaries in a lobby shooter things like actually conquering and taking planets, exploring planets, raiding crap all that good stuff... The majority of new mmos have established systems where new players are able to compete with vets. There is no competition once you at prototype level because you didn't have competition at basic level. When they game was launched most of us already had the SP saved up to go proto. But there is such a disconnection between the proto player and the basic player that it's more than just skill. The suit defines the player not the player. This is what I am hoping tiercide fixes, I want to be able to win matches because of my skill not my suit, I want to die because the other player has skill not because of his suit. And new players should be able to experience the game like this. Not only will tiercide help the NPE but it will also pave the way for a more competitive game and lay down some foundations for the PVE/MMO balance. And as far as competitive goes it will be easier to fix TTK issues, weapon balance, etc if there weren't 4 scales to balance. What your asking for is the removal of Aim Assist. if you want this to be a skill based game. A better suit in Chromosome was just more of a challenge. Now? A better suit with AA? = My AA locks, Your AA locks, Skillpoints + Suit + weapon = winner That's where skill went in DUST. This doesn't offer diversity its "Dumbing" the game down because of High Sec. pub's having vets in them non stop. we will trade Diversity in fitting suit's for a generalized cookie cutter system. Its sick. Every fps has AA, AA has nothing to do with it. The game is already dumbed down with the only modules that matter being armor, shields, and damage modifiers... If we could make suits on an equal level then other modules will matter and that in itself will increase diversity ten times higher than what we have now, which is null to begin with... and with dropsuits the only ones that matter are medium suits god forbid a scout becomes competitive in the next century and a heavy can withstand more than 2 second of fire. Mag no aim assist, Soccom 4 no aim assist, CS:GO no aim assist, Battlefield 3 NO AIM ASSIST until Hit detection issues stayed unfixed for a year. Kill Zone Shadow fall = no aim assist..... DUST 514 NO AIM ASSIST until 1.4.... This idea that a FPS game on a console needs Aim assist is some bullshit that has been sold to you. don't buy. Most of the competition that PLAYED Dust are now on Kill zone Shadow fall where there is no aim assist.. Jump on all you see is familiar faces i have been fighting in DUST for a year. Edit* we barely have a fraction of the modules originally intended.. there is enough variation from mercenary to mercenary in fits right now there is diversity. what you guys are purposing will make exact cookie cutter fits for every race as they progress. hence the dumbing down.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1552	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:46:00 - [104] - Quote Bethhy wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Bethhy wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull &^% could really care less about this game . This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ??? That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting . I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game . The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base . All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such . I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ." Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins . " You people really don't want any competition at all . Where is the competition in having a mlt suit go against a proto suit lol? This is a rather contradictory statement to defend what we have now vs tiercide. But regardless let's get out of the present and let's look into the future, explain to me how this system will work when we have PVE? When we have something more than mercenaries in a lobby shooter things like actually conquering and taking planets, exploring planets, raiding crap all that good stuff... The majority of new mmos have established systems where new players are able to compete with vets. There is no competition once you at prototype level because you didn't have competition at basic level. When they game was launched most of us already had the SP saved up to go proto. But there is such a disconnection between the proto player and the basic player that it's more than just skill. The suit defines the player not the player. This is what I am hoping tiercide fixes, I want to be able to win matches because of my skill not my suit, I want to die because the other player has skill not because of his suit. And new players should be able to experience the game like this. Not only will tiercide help the NPE but it will also pave the way for a more competitive game and lay down some foundations for the PVE/MMO balance. And as far as competitive goes it will be easier to fix TTK issues, weapon balance, etc if there weren't 4 scales to balance. What your asking for is the removal of Aim Assist. if you want this to be a skill based game. A better suit in Chromosome was just more of a challenge. Now? A better suit with AA? = My AA locks, Your AA locks, Skillpoints + Suit + weapon = winner That's where skill went in DUST. This doesn't offer diversity its "Dumbing" the game down because of High Sec. pub's having vets in them non stop. we will trade Diversity in fitting suit's for a generalized cookie cutter system. Its sick. Every fps has AA, AA has nothing to do with it. The game is already dumbed down with the only modules that matter being armor, shields, and damage modifiers... If we could make suits on an equal level then other modules will matter and that in itself will increase diversity ten times higher than what we have now, which is null to begin with... and with dropsuits the only ones that matter are medium suits god forbid a scout becomes competitive in the next century and a heavy can withstand more than 2 second of fire. Mag no aim assist, Soccom 4 no aim assist, CS:GO no aim assist, Battlefield 3 NO AIM ASSIST until Hit detection issues stayed unfixed for a year. Kill Zone Shadow fall = no aim assist..... DUST 514 NO AIM ASSIST until 1.4.... This idea that a FPS game on a console needs Aim assist is some bullshit that has been sold to you. don't buy. Most of the competition that PLAYED Dust are now on Kill zone Shadow fall where there is no aim assist.. Jump on all you see is familiar faces i have been fighting in DUST for a year. None of those games pits kbm vs ds3.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1088	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:50:00 - [105] - Quote what you guys call 'tiericide' is a terrible idea, and not anything similar to what eve is.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 801	Posted - 2014.01.12 15:55:00 - [106] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Bethhy wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Bethhy wrote: What your asking for is the removal of Aim Assist. if you want this to be a skill based game. A better suit in Chromosome was just more of a challenge. Now? A better suit with AA? = My AA locks, Your AA locks, Skillpoints + Suit + weapon = winner That's where skill went in DUST. This doesn't offer diversity its "Dumbing" the game down because of High Sec. pub's having vets in them non stop. we will trade Diversity in fitting suit's for a generalized cookie cutter system. Its sick. Every fps has AA, AA has nothing to do with it. The game is already dumbed down with the only modules that matter being armor, shields, and damage modifiers... If we could make suits on an equal level then other modules will matter and that in itself will increase diversity ten times higher than what we have now, which is null to begin with... and with dropsuits the only ones that matter are medium suits god forbid a scout becomes competitive in the next century and a heavy can withstand more than 2 second of fire. Mag no aim assist, Soccom 4 no aim assist, CS:GO no aim assist, Battlefield 3 NO AIM ASSIST until Hit detection issues stayed unfixed for a year. Kill Zone Shadow fall = no aim assist..... DUST 514 NO AIM ASSIST until 1.4.... This idea that a FPS game on a console needs Aim assist is some bullshit that has been sold to you. don't buy. Most of the competition that PLAYED Dust are now on Kill zone Shadow fall where there is no aim assist.. Jump on all you see is familiar faces i have been fighting in DUST for a year. None of those games pits kbm vs ds3. CS:GO and its raw input? seriously... This isn't even a keyboard and mouse its a ds3 emulation... and its TERRIBLE.... if that's your argument then someone goes and spends 60 bux http://www.penguinunited.com/ And they have keyboard and mouse on any game... It has its own CPU so wayyy less input lag then DUST 514 offers... and guess what you can use AA on keyboard and mouse... Oh and you can map every button as you see fit. Nerfing, Buffing cycle on control input's is part of it too. You don't balance them by gimping one or buffing the other. You make epic UI control customization's for the devices. Like for the DS3, Being able to set their deadzones, Set Anolog stick Acceleration curves, fully mappable controls, And a sensitivity that doesn't have to be at 100% which is 50% for most games. Quote: the skill gap is so compressed, that itGÇÖs like a slot machine. You might as well just sit down at a slot machine and have a thing that pops up an says GÇ£I got a kill!GÇ¥ TheyGÇÖve taken individual skill out of the equation so much. So you see these guysGÇöI see it all the time, they come in to play Red Orchestra, and theyGÇÖre like GÇ£This gameGÇÖs just too hardcore. IGÇÖm awesome at Call of Duty, so thereGÇÖs something wrong with your game. Because IGÇÖm not successful at playing this game, so it must suck. IGÇÖm not the problem, itGÇÖs your game.GÇ¥ And sometimes as designers, it is our game. Sometimes we screw up, sometimes we design something thatGÇÖs not accesible enough, they canGÇÖt figure it out, we didnGÇÖt give them enough information to figure out where to go... but more often than not, itGÇÖs because Call of Duty compressed their skill gap so much that these guys never needed to get good at a shooter. They never needed to get good at their twitch skills
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11994	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:58:00 - [107] - Quote Teiricide will increase variety when done right while severely cutting down on balance noise, its hard to balance things everyone does not use proto, this is reason why there is a balance lag and its taking as much as 6 months to nerf or buff anything. It will also make the game more competitive as there is far less reliance on having 2-6 modules over a player who may be more skilled than the prototype player hiding behind that many more modules. Case in point scouts. Lamenting for 9 months and counting. Logistics 8 months in the wrong role. Heavies suffering for about 6 months. Assault 8 months. If the game continues its current route. There will be over 120 suits but only 24 ways to play. This is of course excluding aurum suits which brought in gives us 240 suits but only still 24 ways to play. Eve online has 560 extended ships and 560 ways to play. Special ships cut out even we're still at 6+1 unique frigates per race (rookie) 1 Shuttle 2 Destroyers 5 Cruisers 3 battlecruisers 3 industrials 1 freighter 3 battleships 2 carriers 1 dread 1 titan and each one of these tech 1 ships play differently from each other and in many cases kick the utter crap out of tech 2 in many areas. In dust our 'tech 1' can't hold a candle to a 'tech 2' Kill variety? when was the last time you saw a prototype medium frame, (not assault or logistics, base)? Uprising 1.0 was the last time I saw one before they patched it out of obscurity. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1554	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:28:00 - [108] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Teiricide will increase variety when done right while severely cutting down on balance noise, its hard to balance things everyone does not use proto, this is reason why there is a balance lag and its taking as much as 6 months to nerf or buff anything. It will also make the game more competitive as there is far less reliance on having 2-6 modules over a player who may be more skilled than the prototype player hiding behind that many more modules. Case in point scouts. Lamenting for 9 months and counting. Logistics 8 months in the wrong role. Heavies suffering for about 6 months. Assault 8 months. If the game continues its current route. There will be over 120 suits but only 24 ways to play. This is of course excluding aurum suits which brought in gives us 240 suits but only still 24 ways to play. Eve online has 560 extended ships and 560 ways to play. Special ships cut out even we're still at 6+1 unique frigates per race (rookie) 1 Shuttle 2 Destroyers 5 Cruisers 3 battlecruisers 3 industrials 1 freighter 3 battleships 2 carriers 1 dread 1 titan and each one of these tech 1 ships play differently from each other and in many cases kick the utter crap out of tech 2 in many areas. In dust our 'tech 1' can't hold a candle to a 'tech 2' Kill variety? when was the last time you saw a prototype medium frame, (not assault or logistics, base)? Uprising 1.0 was the last time I saw one before they patched it out of obscurity. Now that I think of it we had more variety post launch that we do now For example we had shotgun, sniper, and smg scouts. Tech 1 and 2 assaults (Tech 1 sucked) but assaults go hybrid logistics with firepower with 2 eq slots and logistics had this scout/assault hybrid thing going on. And heavies where a force to be reackoned with. Now it's either go Logistics/Assault, you better be a proto suit with 3 damage mods, or go home.
Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 111	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:32:00 - [109] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Teiricide will increase variety when done right while severely cutting down on balance noise, its hard to balance things everyone does not use proto, this is reason why there is a balance lag and its taking as much as 6 months to nerf or buff anything. It will also make the game more competitive as there is far less reliance on having 2-6 modules over a player who may be more skilled than the prototype player hiding behind that many more modules. Case in point scouts. Lamenting for 9 months and counting. Logistics 8 months in the wrong role. Heavies suffering for about 6 months. Assault 8 months. If the game continues its current route. There will be over 120 suits but only 24 ways to play. This is of course excluding aurum suits which brought in gives us 240 suits but only still 24 ways to play. Eve online has 560 extended ships and 560 ways to play. Special ships cut out even we're still at 6+1 unique frigates per race (rookie) 1 Shuttle 2 Destroyers 5 Cruisers 3 battlecruisers 3 industrials 1 freighter 3 battleships 2 carriers 1 dread 1 titan and each one of these tech 1 ships play differently from each other and in many cases kick the utter crap out of tech 2 in many areas. In dust our 'tech 1' can't hold a candle to a 'tech 2' Kill variety? when was the last time you saw a prototype medium frame, (not assault or logistics, base)? Uprising 1.0 was the last time I saw one before they patched it out of obscurity. Now that I think of it we had more variety post launch that we do now For example we had shotgun, sniper, and smg scouts. Tech 1 and 2 assaults (Tech 1 sucked) but assaults go hybrid logistics with firepower with 2 eq slots and logistics had this scout/assault hybrid thing going on. And heavies where a force to be reackoned with. Now it's either go Logistics/Assault, you better be a proto suit with 3 damage mods, or go home. Hey, someone with a brain and a memory. We can't allow that sort of nonsense on these forums!
Qn1f3 Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:58:00 - [110] - Quote No, I want complexity, I want customizability, I want personality. So if I interpret this correctly, this is just what a lot are advocating. But if this means I'll get my precious Type B Scout suit back, put me on the list. Those dual equipment slots, that massive melee power, yummy!



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