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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1528
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
We have all read the rumors and speculation and nobody knows exactly what is going to happen. What we do know is that CCP main focus is dropsuits. So it's they know we want tiercide. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1529
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM been nearly screaming with every chance we get.
Maybe it's time the community starts screaming with you. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1535
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 01:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Tiericide would destroy the risk vs. ISK mechanism which is DUST's biggest redeeming quality. It would turn DUST into a pathetic clone of PS2. We can fix the NPE by creating an optional 2nd tier academy battle mode available to all players with less than x SP (maybe around 2 -5 million SP). I usually don't wear my proto suit in most pub matches, but sometimes I feel compelled to pull it out. Making those kinds of decisions are why I play DUST. It's incredibly satisfying to take out a proto suit while wearing a cheap fit.
F*ck tiericide. Shift the costs to the suits and weapons that is lost on the suits. Make certain suit classes slightly more pronounced in prices too for example there would be a large multiplier of a difference between tech 1 suits and their tech 2 cousins like 10x more maybe? Gallente had 7 frigates, 3 in teir 1 2 in teir 2 and 2 in teir 3 and teir 3 where not always the best even though they had the highest skill requirement (lvl 3) and nobody ever used tier 1s despite being the most cheapest because it was riskier to get caught dead in those ships. Post Teiricide 7 Frigates, all the similar mineral price. All useful all being used much more often now a days Also your idea would not work in the academy Vell0cet, it has yet to work, and I know expanding a second round of battles it would pronounce how wrong your idea is. But all suits are being used right now. I use PRO, ADV, and STD fits (and I used MIL when I was trying things out in the beginning) regularly. DUST doesn't have the problem of suits from various tiers going unused because they're worthless. If I'm trying to earn ISK i'll go cheap, for most battles I'll use ADV gear, and for things that matter (or if someone really p*sses me off and I want revenge) I'll step it up to the expensive stuff. That's an interesting and fun dynamic that already exists. Tiericide in EVE was solving a very different problem (most ships were lame and unused/unloved). The problem DUST is having is the NPE which could be solved much better with the suggestion I posed above.
Your looking at it the wrong way. What tier code would do is give MLT-ADV suits a fair fight vs a proto suit. The Proto suit will still be better and more expensive but the difference would be a lot smaller for example a proto suit compared to a MLT suit can have up to 30% more damage and double the HP. That's so unfair, and the learning curve and SP required to catch up is very steep. What tiercide would do is bring low level suits inline with proto suits, but will reward the higher level suits with a small advantage not a huge one. At the same time it will add variation with type II suits etc. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1536
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 01:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Your looking at it the wrong way. What tier code would do is give MLT-ADV suits a fair fight vs a proto suit. The Proto suit will still be better and more expensive but the difference would be a lot smaller for example a proto suit compared to a MLT suit can have up to 30% more damage and double the HP. That's so unfair, and the learning curve and SP required to catch up is very steep. What tiercide would do is bring low level suits inline with proto suits, but will reward the higher level suits with a small advantage not a huge one. At the same time it will add variation with type II suits etc. Why would I run a suit that costs 10x the cost if it's advantage is very small? Look at EVE. An Omen costs roughly 8 mill, it's T2 counterpart the Zealot costs roughly 150 mill. That's nearly a 20x increase in price, and anyone who plays EVE knows that in a straight 1v1 fight, the Omen will loose every time. But if you bring 2-3 Omens, you can easily take out a Zealot with much less ISK on the line. I don't want fair fights. I want INTERESTING fights with tactics and different tiers of gear. It makes DUST fun, unique and exciting. With mixed levels of gear, the tactical situation is always changing and never the same. That's fun and interesting gameplay to me. Make DUST cookie-cutter where everyone's on a level playing field and you've got a **** game like Plannetside 2. If DUST tries to be a PS2 clone, it will fail miserably. Tiered gear and risk vs. ISK is literally the most interesting/fun aspect of DUST.
I bet the reward for destroying the Zealot is great... what's the reward for 3 mlt suits taking out a proto suit? Practically nothing. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1538
|
Posted - 2014.01.11 04:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:I'd love tiericide, but at the least I'd hope to have a uniform slot layout across all tiers. Slots are what we use to make our fitting and roles unique and individualized to our own preferences. They are something that we should always have, and not be the bargaining chips to balancing the game. Make our fitting unique but at the same time have a uniform slot layout across all tiers? What the hell is wrong with everyone? Layout of the slots is half of the uniqueness of the suit. You people want to play the most uniform boring game that it can be? Tiericide is a bad idea because who would use anything but the the best and why? Uniform slots would make the game even more repeatative than it is now and coupled with tiericide there might as well only be one suit and two guns. Your are stripping the game of diversity with every push towards uniformity of weapons and suits. This kind of thing is what will make me biomass my character because the point of the game is to be able to fit the suit like I want with things I worked hard for. I invested SP and ISK, all anyone wants to do is make all items the same tier and completely generic. What happened to this game? I am truely and honestly dissapointed to read these type of posts about tiericide. They are junk.
What diversity there is no diversity know? Explain to me how diversity is having a bunch of crappy suits to be fed as fodder to proto suits. That's not diversity that's just having a great advantage. Tiericide calls for providing an even field, he'll if every suit didn't have to worry about tanking alpha damage we would see MODULES which are what make or break suits actually meaning something. The only modules that matter are damage modifers, shields, and armor. Diversity should come from the role you play on the field now how weak/strong your suit is because it is the same suit as the other guy except yours has more slots. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1546
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 03:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think the major issue people are having with tiercide is that they assume current suit prices will stay the same. For the sake of argument assume prices for suits will either be all the same since all suits are the "same" or they will go up at a very small negligible rate. Suit price is obviously a balancing factor but before we apply this mechanic fully we have to take into consideration fun (this is a game) ,And the NPE. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1546
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 03:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
XofCitoac wrote:look... TIERICIDE isnt the answer... the MOST LOGICAL action is to reimplement the BATTLE MODES (MLT-STD / MLT-ADV / MLT-PRO) i know it failed before, but it was due to UNDERPOPULOUS of the CLOSED BETA ... DO THIS and WATCH the numbers increase in the playerbase... STOP listening to the BORED NO-LIFER VETS, that are bored because they ran all the cannon fodder off... if DUST 514 is to have longevity THIS is the best option.
This is stupid and turns Dust 514 into some sort of "arena" shooter. It makes sense in theory but what will eventually end up doing is increasing battle waiting times and probably increase lag to the server. And it still does not solve the proto stomping issues. You don't fix a problem by separating it and putting it into its own little box... |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1548
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 13:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull *&^% could really care less about this game .
This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ???
That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting .
I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game .
The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base .
All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such .
I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ."
* Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins .
" You people really don't want any competition at all .
Where is the competition in having a mlt suit go against a proto suit lol? This is a rather contradictory statement to defend what we have now vs tiercide. But regardless let's get out of the present and let's look into the future, explain to me how this system will work when we have PVE? When we have something more than mercenaries in a lobby shooter things like actually conquering and taking planets, exploring planets, raiding crap all that good stuff... The majority of new mmos have established systems where new players are able to compete with vets. There is no competition once you at prototype level because you didn't have competition at basic level. When they game was launched most of us already had the SP saved up to go proto. But there is such a disconnection between the proto player and the basic player that it's more than just skill. The suit defines the player not the player. This is what I am hoping tiercide fixes, I want to be able to win matches because of my skill not my suit, I want to die because the other player has skill not because of his suit. And new players should be able to experience the game like this. Not only will tiercide help the NPE but it will also pave the way for a more competitive game and lay down some foundations for the PVE/MMO balance. And as far as competitive goes it will be easier to fix TTK issues, weapon balance, etc if there weren't 4 scales to balance. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1552
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 15:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull *&^% could really care less about this game .
This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ???
That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting .
I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game .
The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base .
All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such .
I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ."
* Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins . " You people really don't want any competition at all . Where is the competition in having a mlt suit go against a proto suit lol? This is a rather contradictory statement to defend what we have now vs tiercide. But regardless let's get out of the present and let's look into the future, explain to me how this system will work when we have PVE? When we have something more than mercenaries in a lobby shooter things like actually conquering and taking planets, exploring planets, raiding crap all that good stuff... The majority of new mmos have established systems where new players are able to compete with vets. There is no competition once you at prototype level because you didn't have competition at basic level. When they game was launched most of us already had the SP saved up to go proto. But there is such a disconnection between the proto player and the basic player that it's more than just skill. The suit defines the player not the player. This is what I am hoping tiercide fixes, I want to be able to win matches because of my skill not my suit, I want to die because the other player has skill not because of his suit. And new players should be able to experience the game like this. Not only will tiercide help the NPE but it will also pave the way for a more competitive game and lay down some foundations for the PVE/MMO balance. And as far as competitive goes it will be easier to fix TTK issues, weapon balance, etc if there weren't 4 scales to balance. What your asking for is the removal of Aim Assist. if you want this to be a skill based game. A better suit in Chromosome was just more of a challenge. Now? A better suit with AA? = My AA locks, Your AA locks, Skillpoints + Suit + weapon = winner That's where skill went in DUST. This doesn't offer diversity its "Dumbing" the game down because of High Sec. pub's having vets in them non stop. we will trade Diversity in fitting suit's for a generalized cookie cutter system. Its sick.
Every fps has AA, AA has nothing to do with it. The game is already dumbed down with the only modules that matter being armor, shields, and damage modifiers... If we could make suits on an equal level then other modules will matter and that in itself will increase diversity ten times higher than what we have now, which is null to begin with... |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1552
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 15:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Bethhy wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:I have said this time and time again , " You people really don't want any competition at all ." Most of you with your " get gud " and all that other bull *&^% could really care less about this game .
This is when my engine starts to rev up . You killed the tanks , my first passion and now your trying to kill the suits too ???
That won't happen and I will fight every last one of you tooth and nail , every step of the way until you force me out of the door but you will know that I went out fighting .
I will stand up to each and every one of you and even you IWS , like I said before , " I don't know you but you learn a lot about people by their post on the forums ." and I realized that I don't like you or anyone else who wants to kill the amusement of this game .
The thing about games like this and games like " A company of Two " is the fact that you can make YOUR character into WHAT YOU LIKE and if you take that away then you will alienate a huge part of your community and player base .
All of you like to talk crap about games like COD but you want to turn this game into a clone of such .
I have lost respect for everyone who is in favor of this crap . You don't care and I don't either . Remember when you make your smart @$$ comment , " You don't care and I don't either ."
* Ding ... Ding * the bell has been rung and the fight begins . " You people really don't want any competition at all . Where is the competition in having a mlt suit go against a proto suit lol? This is a rather contradictory statement to defend what we have now vs tiercide. But regardless let's get out of the present and let's look into the future, explain to me how this system will work when we have PVE? When we have something more than mercenaries in a lobby shooter things like actually conquering and taking planets, exploring planets, raiding crap all that good stuff... The majority of new mmos have established systems where new players are able to compete with vets. There is no competition once you at prototype level because you didn't have competition at basic level. When they game was launched most of us already had the SP saved up to go proto. But there is such a disconnection between the proto player and the basic player that it's more than just skill. The suit defines the player not the player. This is what I am hoping tiercide fixes, I want to be able to win matches because of my skill not my suit, I want to die because the other player has skill not because of his suit. And new players should be able to experience the game like this. Not only will tiercide help the NPE but it will also pave the way for a more competitive game and lay down some foundations for the PVE/MMO balance. And as far as competitive goes it will be easier to fix TTK issues, weapon balance, etc if there weren't 4 scales to balance. What your asking for is the removal of Aim Assist. if you want this to be a skill based game. A better suit in Chromosome was just more of a challenge. Now? A better suit with AA? = My AA locks, Your AA locks, Skillpoints + Suit + weapon = winner That's where skill went in DUST. This doesn't offer diversity its "Dumbing" the game down because of High Sec. pub's having vets in them non stop. we will trade Diversity in fitting suit's for a generalized cookie cutter system. Its sick. Every fps has AA, AA has nothing to do with it. The game is already dumbed down with the only modules that matter being armor, shields, and damage modifiers... If we could make suits on an equal level then other modules will matter and that in itself will increase diversity ten times higher than what we have now, which is null to begin with... and with dropsuits the only ones that matter are medium suits god forbid a scout becomes competitive in the next century and a heavy can withstand more than 2 second of fire. Mag no aim assist, Soccom 4 no aim assist, CS:GO no aim assist, Battlefield 3 NO AIM ASSIST until Hit detection issues stayed unfixed for a year. Kill Zone Shadow fall = no aim assist..... DUST 514 NO AIM ASSIST until 1.4.... This idea that a FPS game on a console needs Aim assist is some bullshit that has been sold to you. don't buy. Most of the competition that PLAYED Dust are now on Kill zone Shadow fall where there is no aim assist.. Jump on all you see is familiar faces i have been fighting in DUST for a year.
None of those games pits kbm vs ds3. |
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1554
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 19:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Teiricide will increase variety when done right while severely cutting down on balance noise, its hard to balance things everyone does not use proto, this is reason why there is a balance lag and its taking as much as 6 months to nerf or buff anything.
It will also make the game more competitive as there is far less reliance on having 2-6 modules over a player who may be more skilled than the prototype player hiding behind that many more modules.
Case in point scouts. Lamenting for 9 months and counting. Logistics 8 months in the wrong role. Heavies suffering for about 6 months. Assault 8 months.
If the game continues its current route.
There will be over 120 suits but only 24 ways to play. This is of course excluding aurum suits which brought in gives us 240 suits but only still 24 ways to play.
Eve online has 560 extended ships and 560 ways to play. Special ships cut out even we're still at
6+1 unique frigates per race (rookie) 1 Shuttle 2 Destroyers 5 Cruisers 3 battlecruisers 3 industrials 1 freighter 3 battleships 2 carriers 1 dread 1 titan
and each one of these tech 1 ships play differently from each other and in many cases kick the utter crap out of tech 2 in many areas.
In dust our 'tech 1' can't hold a candle to a 'tech 2'
Kill variety? when was the last time you saw a prototype medium frame, (not assault or logistics, base)?
Uprising 1.0 was the last time I saw one before they patched it out of obscurity.
Now that I think of it we had more variety post launch that we do now For example we had shotgun, sniper, and smg scouts. Tech 1 and 2 assaults (Tech 1 sucked) but assaults go hybrid logistics with firepower with 2 eq slots and logistics had this scout/assault hybrid thing going on. And heavies where a force to be reackoned with. Now it's either go Logistics/Assault, you better be a proto suit with 3 damage mods, or go home. |
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