What diversity there is no diversity know? Explain to me how diversity is having a bunch of crappy suits to be fed as fodder to proto suits. That's not diversity that's just having a huge advantage, that's like bringing a pen to a gun fight and saying it a fair fight because you have experience with the gun. Tiericide calls for providing an even field, he'll if every suit didn't have to worry about tanking alpha damage we would see MODULES which are what make or break suits actually meaning something. The only modules that matter are damage modifers, shields, and armor. Diversity should come from the role you play on the field now how weak/strong your suit is; because it is the same suit as the other guy except yours has more slots that's so diverse!

My plan calls for a fitting bonus to be given to all suits as you raise their required command level thus a player first stepping into the suit cannot equip prototype weapons and modules but as he puts more levels into it he can then afford to continue to upgrade the suits performance.

The idea is not remove player progression at all but to shift its focus onto suit fittig and more extreme focus on making better fits for the playstyle thus fitting and how to fit the suit becomes the overall meta.

A player who grasps the concept early and quickly an empower a suit as easily as a proto suit can by equipping the same exact but weaker which the module's own gulfs between bottom to top are not so massive as the one pronounced in proto suits verses militia due to slot disparity alone. (slots are if you done any math wizardry on how ccp concluded their balance designs are extremely weighted )

With the loss of the proto suits the isk cost on regular suits are going have to adjust to be affordable and common. This means the modules between metas are going to gulfen a bit more to emphasize risk versus reward still matters.

This also cuts down on totally useless skills and empowers players earlier per level they unlock with suit command.

Tiericide gets my vote. There's a number of good reasons for it, but the main benefit is that new players have a (slightly) more even playing field, which will help player retention.

Aero basically got the premise right there are ways to go about it though.

A purist tericide would remove ALL meta levels. While this would be neat and players would grow outwards the game would be too flat for most people's liking.

So generally there is a knock off version, one of lesser degree.

For example the one I am currently advocating would remove basic and advanced frames and suits leaving players with prototype slot layouts as the only suit in each class entry. Then introducing two more suit entries at base classes that creating a 'tech 1' experience in which the suits are slightly skewed towards the roles but are able to fulfill many of them. Then the current tech 2 suits get an additional suit and they're heavily skewed into very specific roles. For example

Light Frames under my model would have three types

GK. 0 GK. 1 Gk. 2

The slot layout of 0 would suggest high speed, high stealth, or high mobility. Slot layout of Gk. 1 would suggest high utility, the stats and slots can suggest utility, sabotage, intel, while the third suit seems deemingly more worthy of being either a light combat scout or a pilot of some sort or a covert or skirmish. squad leader.

but thats the light frames and if any bonuses would support a broad range of modules instead of one or two but the bonus overall is a bit weak.

Then with Tech 2 we get specialist suits that are laser focused.

A scout suit designed purely for infiltration, gets bonuses for being able to not only cloak but dodge scanners as well and assassinate players with a damage bonus to melee and other short ranged weapons.
Its brother suit would be more suited to being a saboteur giving up some speed and attack for ability to set more traps covertly and not get caught doing so.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqHgiF-KXQZXdDdKYjRQT193VDlfbFM5b0FwdlB5Ymc&usp=drive_web#gid=0 while its missing stats or bonuses this is what my model could look like in tree format.

If you get rid of proto suits then advanced become the new proto and the same problems are still here until all suits are the same.

I am confused then, I see suits differently than almost everyone else in the world evidently. I know this isn't EVE but they did three things perfect. The ablity to go anywhere, the economy and the ship bonuses we have now. Dust does none of these things and it sucks.

We have the exact same ideas about needs to be done and I just don't understand how you describe it. The end result is almost the same. What I am calling tiers are basically the same things you are callling tec. I am not worried about your ideas like I am others.

Would modules remain tiered? How would the fitting of these be scaled with leveling up your suit?

CPM been nearly screaming with every chance we get.

Absolutely wrong.

A true tetricide would eliminate the entire concept that X item requires Y skill level over Z item's requirement therefore X is better than Z.

Under Teiridice, Y skill unlocks both Z and X at the same time, both Z and X are equally effective but Z and X have different approaches to the job it is meant to do under skill decription of Y.

In the case of tanks, we'd would train HAV to I, and unlock the Gunnlogi a Light battle tank, then a second tank let's call it the Parashu a bigger heavier slower moving HAV with higher defenses, both HAVs fit the same type of equipment and can even have similar type of fittings even and both can do a wide variety of roles still from glass cannon point defense to front line brawlers, but the two play entirely different because of the bonuses, innate stats and nature of the vehicle itself.

Then throw in tech 1 and tech 2 concepts from eve. Both of these Tanks get highly specialized versions, Who knows maybe the Gunnlogis tech 2 cousin is a hover tank. While the Parashu becomes something more akin to a mobile fortress, their tech 1 cousins have far more freedom while the tech 2 versions are stuck with a very specific role they must fit into. There may be more than one contender in each catagory. Ishkone may think the best way to build a mobile fortress is overwhelming and accurate firepower while Ladai belives defense is the best option and Kalakaloina opts for stealth instead. All three fullfill the same roles but all three found different ways to skin the same cat.

Now apply this to infantry.

Even IF Militia suits had no Active Skill bonuses from the Mercenary... So everyone wearing Militia items don't have their skills register. Then have a Game mode where it's militia suits only is even a better option.

I would prefer a game that continues to scale as it grows. It creates Specialized mercenaries and roles.. Not a bunch of mercenaries that are maxed out or near maxed out in every role and class in the game "zzzzzzz".

It dumbs things down to make it "easy" because it takes to long? who wants a game they can get to the end of so quick? \I don't want that regardless if I'm on this toon or my newly made 900k SP logistics toon. I do not like green egg's and ham, I do not like them, Sam I am.


I don't agree we need to get rid of the different Tier's in those classes, that have not even been defined yet. Or that DUST is even close to the max capabilities of what Tiers could be, for example Tech II?. Regardless of how easy or accessible you make the "Aiming" or the "Equipment and Weapons" or having a module that makes you "See all the enemies" it will not make a new FPS player or new to a CCP game player be good at it or stand a chance magically.

The ONLY way we could or CAN, is to allow players to learn how to play a FPS shooter game with EVE like Elements and there is going to have to be a teaching process. Not hold their hands with Magentic bullets and tracking, Big boy suits in a couple weeks because that will suddenly make them better?(it never did for me learning) a module to show the where the fight is but don't explain how to use it?

We need Emphasis on Classes, Heavy specializations in Races and then into Tier's (and then different technology levels... )and Heavy tutorials on those classes. We need a CCP game in all it's glory. not a Dumbed down CCP game.

The key factor in everything is the Learning curve in EVE and avoiding that transition here while offering the massive depth capabilities. And for that we need very good explanations for new players coming into DUST, on HOW TO PLAY IT... not give them a bunch of stuff without explanation or even having time learning how to use it. We need to focus around the learning curve of the NPE and the advancement in DUST around that. At no point ever should someone a month out be coming up against You, Or a lot from the absolute slayer groups like Nyain, Imps, A.E., O.H.. etc.. Those corporation markers may bring some animosity from some Mercenaries, but regardless of how you scale the suits so a new player has more tools to face these people they will get destroyed.

You take an all star group of top 10 dust'ers from the forum lists. then take a top 10 FPS list from the world with no DUST exp. and put them all in battle academy in all the same situation right now. The Experience and time playing this game will trump any self thoughts of greatness every time. and that is the fact here we have to face, and start tailoring around that not dumbing a CCP game down because its a F2p game and it should be "easy"

look... TIERICIDE isnt the answer... the MOST LOGICAL action is to reimplement the BATTLE MODES (MLT-STD / MLT-ADV / MLT-PRO) i know it failed before, but it was due to UNDERPOPULOUS of the CLOSED BETA ... DO THIS and WATCH the numbers increase in the playerbase... STOP listening to the BORED NO-LIFER VETS, that are bored because they ran all the cannon fodder off... if DUST 514 is to have longevity THIS is the best option.

look... TIERICIDE isnt the answer... the MOST LOGICAL action is to reimplement the BATTLE MODES (MLT-STD / MLT-ADV / MLT-PRO) i know it failed before, but it was due to UNDERPOPULOUS of the CLOSED BETA ... DO THIS and WATCH the numbers increase in the playerbase... STOP listening to the BORED NO-LIFER VETS, that are bored because they ran all the cannon fodder off... if DUST 514 is to have longevity THIS is the best option.

look... TIERICIDE isnt the answer... the MOST LOGICAL action is to reimplement the BATTLE MODES (MLT-STD / MLT-ADV / MLT-PRO) i know it failed before, but it was due to UNDERPOPULOUS of the CLOSED BETA ... DO THIS and WATCH the numbers increase in the playerbase... STOP listening to the BORED NO-LIFER VETS, that are bored because they ran all the cannon fodder off... if DUST 514 is to have longevity THIS is the best option.

I have to go with everyone else here, this is a terrible idea. All this does is
a) Segregate an already small player base
and
b) Create no incentive for moving up the tiers

I mean, if you could play a MLT-STD battle mode and only need to use STD suits to be at the top of the food chain, why would you care to specialize further?

Thomas: We have, much like EVE GÇô in fact exactly like EVE! GÇô we have different security levels. We have high security, low security, and nulsec, where anything goes. And thatGÇÖs where weGÇÖre pretty much hands off. When youGÇÖre in highsec we have NPC generated battles, so youGÇÖll always be able to find a battle, youGÇÖre able to grind and get money, but without being exposed to the depth building an infrastructure on the surface of planets, things like that. But then as you play through into the lower levels of security it starts to be about: okay, IGÇÖve got the hang of the game, IGÇÖve got a group of friends, weGÇÖve formed a corporation, and weGÇÖve got backing from some EVE members for the corporation, so weGÇÖre going to hire a war barge, weGÇÖre going to load it up with supplies, and weGÇÖre going to try to attack this location. WeGÇÖre going to get our first foothold on a planet. And that is all scheduled and controlled. Those matches are planned, and the defenders are warned in advance so they have the opportunity to defend. Once you get into that kind of game youGÇÖre making a larger commitment in terms of time to be able to defend your things. And so the more you invest, the more commitment you have to have to protect whatGÇÖs yours. But thereGÇÖs always matches rolling in highsec.