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stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 669	Posted - 2013.12.26 23:50:00 - [1] - Quote Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because no got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner.
Elmo Love U 514 Mile High Club 510	Posted - 2013.12.26 23:52:00 - [2] - Quote Only PVE will save dust! ChantsPVE PVE PVE PVE
Princess Abi-Hime Pradox XVI 1075	Posted - 2013.12.26 23:58:00 - [3] - Quote Agreed, the people saying no to this aren't thinking of the long term effect or just like stomping newberries. The Metalhead Mercenary
Horizen Kenpachi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:06:00 - [4] - Quote Princess Abi-Hime wrote: Agreed, the people saying no to this aren't thinking of the long term effect or just like stomping newberries. Do not underestimate the power of the dark side Hit me with your nerf bat.
Talryn Vilneram SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 109	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:08:00 - [5] - Quote I always thought it would wouldn't be a bad idea to restrict tiers of equipment in Public contracts can only be Meta 0 or 1 items. FW can be ADV and only PROTO is allowed in PC matches.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1421	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:13:00 - [6] - Quote I prefer the pve. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1407	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:14:00 - [7] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. I agree on your goal. As for your specific scheme, i think it would be a big improvement on what we have now. There are prolly other schemes that will do the job even better, but that's largely irrelevant right now - first priority is to stanch the flow of blood. For me this is CCPs biggest failure right now, because it's largely needless. CCP has made noises about not being happy with the NPE, but so far as i can see the walk absolutely does not match the talk. I support SP rollover.
IVIaster LUKE 298	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:18:00 - [8] - Quote Horizen Kenpachi wrote: Princess Abi-Hime wrote: Agreed, the people saying no to this aren't thinking of the long term effect or just like stomping newberries. Do not underestimate the power of the dark side "If you can dodge a Wrench, you can dodge a Duvolle".
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 139	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:18:00 - [9] - Quote I like your points, and I have a similar experience with my friends, but I think the only true solution to player retention is meta level capped matches, where you can only bring up to a certain meta level item into a game. I think general pubs should be set around 2 - 6, FW 7 - 8, and PC 9. Trying to fix stomping with matchmaking is literally an impossible task, because of the small playerbase. Meta-level matches encourage new players to skill into core skills, as they should be doing anyways, if they want to be successful. This would allow players with less total SP to be more competitive at a quicker rate with a vet if they stick to playing at lower level matches, until they are ready to move up. As far as splitting new players up, I don't really think the devs truly realize how much protostomping in pubs is killing their game. To those players that continually engage in it, and would leave if caps were in place, I say good riddance. The influx of new players I think would more than offset the departure of butthurt vets. We are long overdue for some new blood around here. Min Logi \| aka *Punch R0ckgroin* - fatsuit \| My Theme Music
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 251	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:30:00 - [10] - Quote Elmo Love U wrote: Only PVE will save dust! +1 this

Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1418	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:32:00 - [11] - Quote Talryn Vilneram wrote: I always thought it would wouldn't be a bad idea to restrict tiers of equipment in Public contracts can only be Meta 0 or 1 items. FW can be ADV and only PROTO is allowed in PC matches. Any split up based on equipment would be stupid. Because when does your suit count as proto? As soon as you use a proto suit? Fine. I'll take a militia suit with a proto weapon. Here I come! Or as soon as you use one proto item? This wouldn't work with Dusts fitting system. Elmo Love U wrote: Only PVE will save dust! I too would like PvE. But you are way to negative. The game is doing fine.
Smoky Fingers Red Star. 199	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:36:00 - [12] - Quote Okay, now the other question is how can the existing playerbase help the cause? Maybe a specific day of the week where everyone goes solo? Need community ideas. No one ever pays me in gum :<
Alpha Canine Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:39:00 - [13] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. The winner in pc is whoever doesn't get the lag bro... D1cklord#2
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 676	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:41:00 - [14] - Quote Alpha Canine wrote: The winner in pc is whoever doesn't get the lag bro... Lol added because its true.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1400	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:45:00 - [15] - Quote I agree that PvE is the key to Dusts future. The OPs idea is sound, assuming it wouldn't result in a bunch of half empty matches all the time! 3 groups is probably too many. Perhaps the middle group gets put into both queues so they get some matches with equivalent players and some with much better players to sorta ease them into the big leagues. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
EternalRMG KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 747	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:48:00 - [16] - Quote or... make academy last until you have 2 or 3 M SP and make it so that alts cant get into an academy. "Fight Togheter; Win Together" Duster Since: July 2012 Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 679	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:50:00 - [17] - Quote PVE will help but not everyone wants to play against bots.
Avallo Kantor Scions of Athra 279	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:54:00 - [18] - Quote I would only ask you to look at the current state of the battle academy. There, players are extremely close together in SP, as you propose the balance should be made, yet there are still people going 20 + /0. This would happen just as often in your scenario. Teamwork and physical skill (not SP) will almost always determine victory, so balance should be happening around that. DUST is attempting to be heavily Team focused (which I think is positive) and this results in an even larger gap between good teamwork and poor team work. Balancing needs to happen on some metric of skill, which is hard to do. SP balancing alone will not do the trick, and thinking it will is a fallacy of relating Skill Points to actual skill. (although players who have played the game longer tend to be better than those that are new) The other thing to keep in mind is that better balancing of matches -WILL- result in longer queue times. Look at League of Legends of instance, where for the large number of unskilled players matchmaking takes mere seconds, as there is a large pool to draw from, but for the highest competitive tiers the wait can span nearly 30 minutes. Many people enjoy public contracts because they were designed around the concept of being able to -quickly- jump into a random match and shoot things, would you be happier with signifigcantly longer queues, so that you got more fair matches, which would likey result in your KDR going much closer to 1?
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 448	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:04:00 - [19] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. I would be for having the option to go to a pub match that has gear level restrictions, but not in place of the pub match system. Sort of an addition. As fort he "Catch up" system, I'd have to say no. Considering that the maximum skill level of all skills are five, there's no need for it. I still can't find tanks on the market. All I see are those HAVs.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 673	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:04:00 - [20] - Quote eve had no training wheels.... so why would dust have any... you can't look at a company like ccp and compare them to a the makers of say COD or BF. ccp don't plan for today. they plan for 5-10 years time. a steady player base is what ccp aims for and adds things later to gradually increase it. a massive influx would just cause more issues than it fixes. this idea only stands to alienate most of the community from each other which goes against everything ccp games are about. with your plan: 1)all mercs below pro status would not be able to do FW or PC at all.(reason being that in order to play these matches they would have to be matched with other players of a different level which your idea does not allow) 2)corps will not be able to scout for new players as they would never see any. 3)you now have pro's training against pro's honing their skills. all these noobs/adv players would be walking into a kill fest. they would not stand a chance. at the moment alot of pro's train against weaker targets and that only makes people lazy. going up against pro's all the time would only make the gap even bigger for those just joining the ranks. 4)corps can no longer play with their corp mates because some have more sp than others. we have some awesome <5mil sp guys rolling with the 20+million+ crew. they would no longer be able to do that with your idea. i understand where your coming from but there is a bigger picture here you have missed entirely https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2005	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:07:00 - [21] - Quote Fool dont you know dust should have basically the same new player experience as eve? On eve you are canonfodder till you get decent ships and modules. Till then you are just screwed and have to endulge in beeing stomped 24/7. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Princess Abi-Hime Pradox XVI 1086	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:19:00 - [22] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Fool dont you know dust should have basically the same new player experience as eve? On eve you are canonfodder till you get decent ships and modules. Till then you are just screwed and have to endulge in beeing stomped 24/7. No you don't, you can stay in highsec as long as you want and be relatively safe. They even have good tutorials. Don't call others a fool then spew ignorance. The Metalhead Mercenary
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 673	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:23:00 - [23] - Quote Princess Abi-Hime wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Fool dont you know dust should have basically the same new player experience as eve? On eve you are canonfodder till you get decent ships and modules. Till then you are just screwed and have to endulge in beeing stomped 24/7. No you don't, you can stay in highsec as long as you want and be relatively safe. They even have good tutorials. Don't call others a fool then spew ignorance. 9 years for a good enougth tutorial. Doesn't mean someone with a 10year old account won't come upto you in that tutorial and blow the s**t out of u https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Princess Abi-Hime Pradox XVI 1087	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:30:00 - [24] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Princess Abi-Hime wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Fool dont you know dust should have basically the same new player experience as eve? On eve you are canonfodder till you get decent ships and modules. Till then you are just screwed and have to endulge in beeing stomped 24/7. No you don't, you can stay in highsec as long as you want and be relatively safe. They even have good tutorials. Don't call others a fool then spew ignorance. 9 years for a good enougth tutorial. Doesn't mean someone with a 10year old account won't come upto you in that tutorial and blow the s**t out of u So DUST should wait years to have a better NPE because EVE did? And yes, they can grief but concord will wreck them. The Metalhead Mercenary
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis CALSF 356	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:37:00 - [25] - Quote It's Eve universe get used to it. It's cold heartless and ruthless. If you thought it would be a peace of cake then leave I am against what you suggest. Instead have tiered battles. And if you don't know what that means then let me dumb it down. Let's say they have matches where you can only where and use mlt and std equipment and then their would be adv and up battles. Boom player base and the vets can still stomp the new guys but not by a mile. But still your gonna need matches where you can where whatever. Also Pve ,which was promised to be here by winter but look where that is currently, will save the game by introducing a way to farm isk and learn the game better. Also I'd love to own a plot of ground on Caldari Prime that would be bada$$ We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Lorhak Gannarsein 899	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:39:00 - [26] - Quote Princess Abi-Hime wrote: Agreed, the people saying no to this aren't thinking of the long term effect or just like stomping newberries. If they did this there would be more new berries to stomp. Do it! PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2448	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:42:00 - [27] - Quote They could make the lower level games 8 v 8 with auto squading (in beta you were automatically thrown into squads). I also like the idea of increasing passive SP gain (I think it should be increased an additional .50 if they join a corp) for new players. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2448	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:44:00 - [28] - Quote I think there needs to be something done to push people to learn how to play in a squad/team. Perhaps there needs to be squad leader skills that give certain boosts to squad members. Something to push people to group up. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6104	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:00:00 - [29] - Quote Elmo Love U wrote: Only PVE will save dust! That is so true. But PvE alone won't save Dust. There needs to be racial symmetry across the board, more modules, more vehicles, more weapons, more suits, more terrain, more moods, and there needs to be a secondary market as well. Once you achieved all that, then Dust is finally saved. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11435	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:03:00 - [30] - Quote Wouldn't work. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked

J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 141	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:08:00 - [31] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: It's Eve universe get used to it. It's cold heartless and ruthless. If you thought it would be a peace of cake then leave I am against what you suggest. Instead have tiered battles. And if you don't know what that means then let me dumb it down. Let's say they have matches where you can only where and use mlt and std equipment and then their would be adv and up battles. Boom player base and the vets can still stomp the new guys but not by a mile. But still your gonna need matches where you can where whatever. Also Pve ,which was promised to be here by winter but look where that is currently, will save the game by introducing a way to farm isk and learn the game better. Also I'd love to own a plot of ground on Caldari Prime that would be bada$$ I appreciate where you are coming from -- I actually agree to a certain extent. I think the steep learning curve of Dust acts a filter to less serious players -- bros who just want to run around solo, shoot other bros and teabag them. It encourages a certain level of maturity in it's playerbase that is lacking in other FPSs, which I find refreshing and I think is probably the reason most of us have stayed around as long as we have. That being said, the problem with Dust is that the steep learning curve has become a learning cliff, and the cliff gets higher as the months go by, with the gap between noobs and vets widening. Difficult is fine, many of us thrive on 'difficult'. What we don't want is 'impossible', to the point where people are ragequiting and uninstalling the game because they can't compete. Min Logi \| aka *Punch R0ckgroin* - fatsuit \| My Theme Music
Malek McRoland DUST University Ivy League 150	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:13:00 - [32] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Wouldn't work. Aww I was hoping for some CPM optimisim!!! PvE would be a good start, but lack of content/across-the-board-balance would only limit PvE. Loyal Amarr and Caldari supporter Don't even start with AV and how tanks are not OP.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1408	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:19:00 - [33] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Fool dont you know dust should have basically the same new player experience as eve? On eve you are canonfodder till you get decent ships and modules. Till then you are just screwed and have to endulge in beeing stomped 24/7. The big difference is we're locked into the lobby shooter structure in DUST - there is no alternative gameplay, unlike EVE which is rich with options for players not ready for pvp. I support SP rollover.
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 688	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:33:00 - [34] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Wouldn't work. Because what we have is working wonders on increasing the player base
MICROMEGASx 9 Seal Team Dooo 0	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:34:00 - [35] - Quote LMAO All of you strange people with your strange ideas. Want to increase playerbase? How about you make the game fun. That would be a good start. You know how many people were super fckin stoked for this game. And do you know why they dont play it anymore. Cos the mechanics suck. The game is bad.
Demon Buddah Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 112	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:37:00 - [36] - Quote This seems like a pretty good idea. This or PVE, or both.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1431	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:53:00 - [37] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. Better yet just tiercide everything. Noobs can play with vets in a balanced battlefield, and what will really shine is player skill not proto modules.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1172	Posted - 2013.12.27 03:21:00 - [38] - Quote problem is CCP doesn't really care how big the player base is at this point, they take the long view and will be happy to pick up the players that are really interested in this sort of game, it was the same with eve, I only heard about it back in 2006 because I overheard 2 factory workers talking about frigates and industrials, downloaded the game the next day. Once they decide the games ready for a big influx of players they will advertise the crap out of it.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 142	Posted - 2013.12.27 03:33:00 - [39] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Better yet just tiercide everything. Noobs can play with vets in a balanced battlefield, and what will really shine is player skill not proto modules. I like tiercide as well -- I think it's a perfectly viable solution, but something that would take a lot of planning and testing. I prefer meta-level caps at the moment, simply because it's something I imagine could be instituted rather quickly, compared to the effort to realize tiercide or matchmaking successfully. Min Logi \| aka *Punch R0ckgroin* - fatsuit \| My Theme Music
pseudosnipre 419	Posted - 2013.12.27 03:46:00 - [40] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: I like your points, and I have a similar experience with my friends, but I think the only true solution to player retention is meta level capped matches, where you can only bring up to a certain meta level item into a game. I think general pubs should be set around 2 - 6, FW 7 - 8, and PC 9. Trying to fix stomping with matchmaking is literally an impossible task, because of the small playerbase. Meta-level matches encourage new players to skill into core skills, as they should be doing anyways, if they want to be successful. This would allow players with less total SP to be more competitive at a quicker rate with a vet if they stick to playing at lower level matches, until they are ready to move up. As far as splitting new players up, I don't really think the devs truly realize how much protostomping in pubs is killing their game. To those players that continually engage in it, and would leave if caps were in place, I say good riddance. The influx of new players I think would more than offset the departure of butthurt vets. We are long overdue for some new blood around here. Long term, I'd rather see suit meta restrictions tied to system security instead of game mode... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1147758#post1147758 Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.

Azura Sakura Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 523	Posted - 2013.12.27 04:01:00 - [41] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. I agree. I introduced my little brother and his friends who are CoD kiddies (no lies). They loved the game but with the SP gap, it became really hard for them to play and get kills. My little brother isn't a bad shot either, he done 1 academy match and I took him with me to play Ambush. He went 7-1 with militia gear (but that stopped when we played 1 DOM match xD). Like you, I will like to be matched against full proto teams so I can test my skills in my DS and actually have a better isk pay from destroying proto suits and what not, I think ISK is still calculated from what you destroyed. But anyways I agree.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11435	Posted - 2013.12.27 04:03:00 - [42] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Wouldn't work. Because what we have is working wonders on growing the player base Honestly how did this guy get CPM Easy. To understand this CPM's statement you need to understand why this idea 'won't work' and more unitentionally divulged the notion 'it hasn't worked so far' Case in point 1. There are people who roll alts in academy on purpose. Thus the goal set out to do is already destroyed before the idea got off the ground as the academy does serve as an unintended testing for the idea. 2. People are intelligent min maxers and proven this quite often. The most intelligent will roll the most deadliest alt/build per bracket the first time. The bandwagon 'smurfs' as League of Legends calls them will follow their examples. 3. Real Men don't need skill points. Throw the best players in this game in militia fits and watch them continue to annihilate as if nothing happened. 4. Additionally people would stop spending SP once they concluded an optimal skill point in the bracket due to fear, unwilling to progress further make the game harder on themselves hence probably the large number of academy stomping alts. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Elmo Love U 514 Mile High Club 523	Posted - 2013.12.27 04:48:00 - [43] - Quote Smoky Fingers wrote: Okay, now the other question is how can the existing playerbase help the cause? Maybe a specific day of the week where everyone goes solo? Need ideas. +1 for the tag...... ChantsPVE PVE PVE PVE
Subject 36 Pradox XVI 45	Posted - 2013.12.27 06:55:00 - [44] - Quote I love your idea <3 But first a re-spec. Amarr Templars
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 734	Posted - 2013.12.27 07:39:00 - [45] - Quote As it has been said many times in many other threads. This is a good idea. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Bradric Banewolf D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine 0	Posted - 2013.12.27 07:47:00 - [46] - Quote PVE would be interesting if they were infesting new eden and we had to fight them!
Slave Omega Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.12.27 07:48:00 - [47] - Quote this ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: eve had no training wheels.... so why would dust have any... you can't look at a company like ccp and compare them to a the makers of say COD or BF. ccp don't plan for today. they plan for 5-10 years time. a steady player base is what ccp aims for and adds things later to gradually increase it. a massive influx would just cause more issues than it fixes. this idea only stands to alienate most of the community from each other which goes against everything ccp games are about. with your plan: 1)all mercs below pro status would not be able to do FW or PC at all.(reason being that in order to play these matches they would have to be matched with other players of a different level which your idea does not allow) 2)corps will not be able to scout for new players as they would never see any. 3)you now have pro's training against pro's honing their skills. all these noobs/adv players would be walking into a kill fest. they would not stand a chance. at the moment alot of pro's train against weaker targets and that only makes people lazy. going up against pro's all the time would only make the gap even bigger for those just joining the ranks. 4)corps can no longer play with their corp mates because some have more sp than others. we have some awesome <5mil sp guys rolling with the 20+million+ crew. they would no longer be able to do that with your idea. i understand where your coming from but there is a bigger picture here you have missed entirely and this Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Wouldn't work.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1014	Posted - 2013.12.27 07:49:00 - [48] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Wouldn't work. Because what we have is working wonders on growing the player base Honestly how did this guy get CPM Easy. To understand this CPM's statement you need to understand why this idea 'won't work' and more unitentionally divulged the notion 'it hasn't worked so far' Case in point 1. There are people who roll alts in academy on purpose. Thus the goal set out to do is already destroyed before the idea got off the ground as the academy does serve as an unintended testing for the idea. 2. People are intelligent min maxers and proven this quite often. The most intelligent will roll the most deadliest alt/build per bracket the first time. The bandwagon 'smurfs' as League of Legends calls them will follow their examples. 3. Real Men don't need skill points. Throw the best players in this game in militia fits and watch them continue to annihilate as if nothing happened. 4. Additionally people would stop spending SP once they concluded an optimal skill point in the bracket due to fear, unwilling to progress further make the game harder on themselves hence probably the large number of academy stomping alts. Also this is inbox thinking and sandless. MOAR Sand Less Box If players want to build a castle with said sand with certain rules to be followed in its walls by all means I'll let them, but right now they can't even do that. nah! proposal was for three game modes to add some variety infantry only modes , vehicles only modes and infantry and vehicles modes was in feedback got DEVELOPER feedback in weekly feedback thread in feedback forum Status. After a YEAR? Never implemented looking foreward to April . Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 919	Posted - 2013.12.27 07:50:00 - [49] - Quote I don't like the idea of accelerated SP. Let them grind it out like we did. They will never catch up, that's not the point. The point is for them to always be playing with players of their SP. Mlt- basic gear only matches, adv matches, and proto matches. Increased pay out for each tier. And if there's not a lot of players in proto matches, just have squad play amb. dom.
Elmo Love U 514 Mile High Club 527	Posted - 2013.12.27 15:29:00 - [50] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Talryn Vilneram wrote: I always thought it would wouldn't be a bad idea to restrict tiers of equipment in Public contracts can only be Meta 0 or 1 items. FW can be ADV and only PROTO is allowed in PC matches. Any split up based on equipment would be stupid. Because when does your suit count as proto? As soon as you use a proto suit? Fine. I'll take a militia suit with a proto weapon. Here I come! Or as soon as you use one proto item? This wouldn't work with Dusts fitting system. Elmo Love U wrote: Only PVE will save dust! I too would like PvE. But you are way to negative. The game is doing fine. The game is doing fine. LMAO players dropping like flies. Destiny will be out soon(tm). More will leave. You will be left playing with yourself.<-------no pun intended. ChantsPVE PVE PVE PVE

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 7171	Posted - 2013.12.27 15:49:00 - [51] - Quote I see your point and raise you a shout of 'TIERICIDE!' Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4226	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:33:00 - [52] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. Alternatively we could do the logical thing and just do away with the tiers all together, but I know how people start to froth at the mouth as soon as that's brought up so I won't stick around to see the responses. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4226	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:37:00 - [53] - Quote Elmo Love U wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Talryn Vilneram wrote: I always thought it would wouldn't be a bad idea to restrict tiers of equipment in Public contracts can only be Meta 0 or 1 items. FW can be ADV and only PROTO is allowed in PC matches. Any split up based on equipment would be stupid. Because when does your suit count as proto? As soon as you use a proto suit? Fine. I'll take a militia suit with a proto weapon. Here I come! Or as soon as you use one proto item? This wouldn't work with Dusts fitting system. Elmo Love U wrote: Only PVE will save dust! I too would like PvE. But you are way to negative. The game is doing fine. The game is doing fine. LMAO players dropping like flies. Destiny will be out soon(tm). More will leave. You will be left playing with yourself.<-------no pun intended. September? Lmfao, with no PC version? Can't wait to see how many of you are on the Bungie forums saying it needs to come out for PC and how the game won't last. Just saying, Destiny ****** up when they decided to go with a level-based system. It's fun being able to do all the cool stuff but it's never fun to have to grind away levels to get to where your friends are just for them to make new characters. Dust 514 has a leveling system, yes, but most players generally stick to their "main" because it's ever progressive and much easier to hit level 5 in a bunch of skills than hit level 80 on an MMO. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1388	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:43:00 - [54] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. I agree with this, This wouldn't hurt the game at all because of a couple reasons. The first is that most players who are actively playing today are above that 10M SP limit. So it wouldn't hurt the already established player base. All it would do is create a place for new players to actually grow. PVE is another way of doing it, but I think its wrong to basically say "screw you your too new to play with real people go fight some bots", Battle academy ends WAYYYYY too quickly. New players need to be able to get to at least 2,000,000 SP before they get booted. You might argue that SP doesn't determine a players skill because of the passive gain, but it DOES determine a players gear. and 90% of the time that's what decides who wins an engagement. Their gear, not the skill they have. I could be the best person in the game, but if im fighting someone with a proto suit in a standard suit the chances of me beating that person is slim because of the difference in suit quality. Marston VC, STB Director
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11448	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:43:00 - [55] - Quote + teiricide CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1388	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:53:00 - [56] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Wouldn't work. Because what we have is working wonders on growing the player base Honestly how did this guy get CPM Easy. To understand this CPM's statement you need to understand why this idea 'won't work' and more unitentionally divulged the notion 'it hasn't worked so far' Case in point 1. There are people who roll alts in academy on purpose. Thus the goal set out to do is already destroyed before the idea got off the ground as the academy does serve as an unintended testing for the idea. 2. People are intelligent min maxers and proven this quite often. The most intelligent will roll the most deadliest alt/build per bracket the first time. The bandwagon 'smurfs' as League of Legends calls them will follow their examples. 3. Real Men don't need skill points. Throw the best players in this game in militia fits and watch them continue to annihilate as if nothing happened. 4. Additionally people would stop spending SP once they concluded an optimal skill point in the bracket due to fear, unwilling to progress further make the game harder on themselves hence probably the large number of academy stomping alts. Also this is inbox thinking and sandless. MOAR Sand Less Box If players want to build a castle with said sand with certain rules to be followed in its walls by all means I'll let them, but right now they can't even do that. If I were a new player I would rather fight a good player with gear equivalent to my own then be fighting them in their main accounts proto suit. This idea doesn't cure us of the problem, but it does aid in fixing it. Ive been in these academy battles. Dozens and dozens of them. But normally theres only 1 to 3 people who appear to be alts between both teams. Most times theres normally only 1 and that's me. (1 apparent one). But thats not really the problem. The problem is that your failing to think about the future here. Whats more important to you? The "sandbox", or having people to actually play in it? Your beloved sandbox will grow over time, but right now Dust needs to grow an actual player base to utilize the future features CCP intends to push out. By doing this, even if its only a temporary fix, it'll at least provide a better quality of life for new players because like I said above a new player would rather fight a team of 15 noobs and 1 vet alt, then fight a team of 16 vet proto stompers. See the difference? Marston VC, STB Director
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1388	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:59:00 - [57] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Princess Abi-Hime wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Fool dont you know dust should have basically the same new player experience as eve? On eve you are canonfodder till you get decent ships and modules. Till then you are just screwed and have to endulge in beeing stomped 24/7. No you don't, you can stay in highsec as long as you want and be relatively safe. They even have good tutorials. Don't call others a fool then spew ignorance. 9 years for a good enougth tutorial. Doesn't mean someone with a 10year old account won't come upto you in that tutorial and blow the s**t out of u Nobody in a ten year old account or any age account is going to see the worth in attacking noob frigate/cruiser ships in highsec. The only time you see any sort of ganking in highsec is if the loot inside a persons ship is worth all the trouble. For example there was a story not toooo long ago about someone transporting 40 Plex's through highsec and getting ganked by a fleet of guys in an attempt to get the plex's. Nobody is going to attack some noob without some sort of reason. Sure you have people trying to get noobs to accept duel requests but thats about it. I know because I ran through those tutorials myself not very long ago..... Marston VC, STB Director
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 88	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:14:00 - [58] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. a better idea would be to rename the battle academy highsec, make it militia/std only, decrease the isk/sp gains but leave it open to everybody so people can move freely between what we have now and highsec
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro Omega Elite Mercs INC. 35	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:16:00 - [59] - Quote Tldr all of it, just the beginning. Bump: some kind of different match making system needs to be used. I have dropped a few ideas that went unheard, but regardless, I agree that NPE and long time player engagement are being affected by how the game impacts basic psychological needs of competency and autonomy, It has been supported by studies that these two factors greatly influence motivation to play a game and I believe they are not being efficiently meet in Dusts core experience. FAME
THE DRiZZLE AQUA TEEN KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 189	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:39:00 - [60] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: I like your points, and I have a similar experience with my friends, but I think the only true solution to player retention is meta level capped matches, where you can only bring up to a certain meta level item into a game. I think general pubs should be set around 2 - 6, FW 7 - 8, and PC 9. Trying to fix stomping with matchmaking is literally an impossible task, because of the small playerbase. Meta-level matches encourage new players to skill into core skills, as they should be doing anyways, if they want to be successful. This would allow players with less total SP to be more competitive at a quicker rate with a vet if they stick to playing at lower level matches, until they are ready to move up. As far as splitting new players up, I don't really think the devs truly realize how much protostomping in pubs is killing their game. To those players that continually engage in it, and would leave if caps were in place, I say good riddance. The influx of new players I think would more than offset the departure of butthurt vets. We are long overdue for some new blood around here. Agreed Beta Vet " Dust warrior not A forum warrior " noob tears make the world go round

THE DRiZZLE AQUA TEEN KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 191	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:46:00 - [61] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Wouldn't work. Pve is not going to happen for a long time. But tiered pub matches need to happen there is not line between 30 mill vets and new players. And lowering the gap between proto and basic was not the way to fix it. Beta Vet " Dust warrior not A forum warrior " noob tears make the world go round
drake sadani Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 129	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:59:00 - [62] - Quote why not transfer all the devs to a low ranking newberry account and run them trough 4 matches with nothing but them losing and being shut down . bet they would understand then . i've said many times the game is not appetizing for new players . and yes using a militia suits as a veteran player allows you to win because of skill. but only if you are gallante, lol it's not really going to change anything though . dev's won't listen . forums won't change . no one knows what they are talking about. so it's pointless . people don't change . no one is going to wake up and say HEY the community has a good idea lets use it .
Leviticus Decoy Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 19	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:59:00 - [63] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: eve had no training wheels.... so why would dust have any... you can't look at a company like ccp and compare them to a the makers of say COD or BF. ccp don't plan for today. they plan for 5-10 years time. a steady player base is what ccp aims for and adds things later to gradually increase it. a massive influx would just cause more issues than it fixes. this idea only stands to alienate most of the community from each other which goes against everything ccp games are about. with your plan: 1)all mercs below pro status would not be able to do FW or PC at all.(reason being that in order to play these matches they would have to be matched with other players of a different level which your idea does not allow) 2)corps will not be able to scout for new players as they would never see any. 3)you now have pro's training against pro's honing their skills. all these noobs/adv players would be walking into a kill fest. they would not stand a chance. at the moment alot of pro's train against weaker targets and that only makes people lazy. going up against pro's all the time would only make the gap even bigger for those just joining the ranks. 4)corps can no longer play with their corp mates because some have more sp than others. we have some awesome <5mil sp guys rolling with the 20+million+ crew. they would no longer be able to do that with your idea. i understand where your coming from but there is a bigger picture here you have missed entirely The only person on this topic that made any sort of sense. Tips hat CCP tried something like this (OP) a while back with the matchmaking system and the wait times where horrendous,
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 713	Posted - 2013.12.27 18:12:00 - [64] - Quote Leviticus Decoy wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: eve had no training wheels.... so why would dust have any... you can't look at a company like ccp and compare them to a the makers of say COD or BF. ccp don't plan for today. they plan for 5-10 years time. a steady player base is what ccp aims for and adds things later to gradually increase it. a massive influx would just cause more issues than it fixes. this idea only stands to alienate most of the community from each other which goes against everything ccp games are about. with your plan: 1)all mercs below pro status would not be able to do FW or PC at all.(reason being that in order to play these matches they would have to be matched with other players of a different level which your idea does not allow) 2)corps will not be able to scout for new players as they would never see any. 3)you now have pro's training against pro's honing their skills. all these noobs/adv players would be walking into a kill fest. they would not stand a chance. at the moment alot of pro's train against weaker targets and that only makes people lazy. going up against pro's all the time would only make the gap even bigger for those just joining the ranks. 4)corps can no longer play with their corp mates because some have more sp than others. we have some awesome <5mil sp guys rolling with the 20+million+ crew. they would no longer be able to do that with your idea. i understand where your coming from but there is a bigger picture here you have missed entirely The only person on this topic that made any sort of sense. Tips hat CCP tried something like this (OP) a while back with the matchmaking system and the wait times where horrendous, Thats why you keep some game modes that are free for all at any skill level or gear level.
Shiruba Ryou Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 70	Posted - 2013.12.27 18:35:00 - [65] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think there needs to be something done to push people to learn how to play in a squad/team. Perhaps there needs to be squad leader skills that give certain boosts to squad members. Something to push people to group up. Leadership Squad bonuses would be very nice. It would further divided normals from squared members yes. But it would push people into corporations and squads and encourage people to really play together. They could also add Corporation Public matches. Available only to player owned corporations and allow fully stocked teams. It can follow the old Corporation Contracts system but also allow the issuer to set tier restrictions. This gives corporations the ability to have fun games without worrying about useless teammatea. Spies are the corporation's responsibility to maintain. This will push people to corporations even more for the chance at good team matches. The tier restrictions will encourage weaker corps to fright as well. Both teams being full of non useless people hopefully and both locked to a tier limit. Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fucking fruit salad.
Bradric Banewolf D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine 1	Posted - 2013.12.28 02:49:00 - [66] - Quote how bout this? have the sandbox! no new players, just you few with proto gear. all yours! you can stomp and feel like your better than you actually are. the game eventually goes bottom up because no one wants to comprimise, embrace new ideas, or welcome cgallenge. have a game full of campers, proto stompers, and op weapon users. oh by the way you'll loose one of the best games out and all its potential will go down the drain to please a couple nerds?! smh?! balance the game or loose it in the long run. simple. any fix is better than none.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3909	Posted - 2013.12.28 03:04:00 - [67] - Quote CCP is r3tarded so this won't happen. They will sit back and watch the player base drop. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 3 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Natalie Herondale 0uter.Heaven 76	Posted - 2013.12.28 03:06:00 - [68] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. Well said! If you're going to be bad, be bad with a purpose.
Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 169	Posted - 2013.12.28 03:18:00 - [69] - Quote I think CCP thinks it works like EVE - where if you go into low-sec, you could totally run into a powerful dude. Except in EVE you can easily, just be chance, not run into them, mine some asteroids, then bug out. In dust you HAVE to run into the powerful dude. It's not at all the same dynamic, but they are trying to run the same dynamic, when there is no chance to sneak some resources and run away before the tough guy comes. The tough guy is just there, and he wins.
JP Acuna war-legends elite 53	Posted - 2013.12.28 04:12:00 - [70] - Quote I don't know if this would work... I'm just happy i started playing back in uprising 1.2 (i think it was).

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11452	Posted - 2013.12.28 04:12:00 - [71] - Quote To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
RED FARM GOOD OL' B0YS 45	Posted - 2013.12.28 04:25:00 - [72] - Quote The issue is the COD rushing mentality gets you killed alot which causes your bank roll to be tiny. As a newb, if you cannot start shooting first... you are dead. You gotta be tactical. Be a medic and help in other ways until you can help kill. I thought getting killed as a newb was great because I am competitive. I thought wow this is going to take months to skill up....awesome vs. level 60 in a few weeks. Now, I am at 13M SP and a proto suit coming at me is the same as a STARTER FIT. However, I can run a 3k ISK suit and have positive kills. Tell your friends wow start to hang in there and Cowboy Up! Public Chat: GOOD OL' B0YS Please note the word B0YS has a zero in it.
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 724	Posted - 2013.12.28 04:37:00 - [73] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. The problem is when people graduate the academy they don't stick around because the grind to get competitive is too long and for most people not worth the time. New players trying dust isn't the problem its new player retention.The harsh reality of the EVE universe works in EVE because of the security levels, in dust there's nothing but new players getting destroyed by vets. Sure some have the fortitude to stick it out and stay but 90% of people who tried to play don't and just quit and move on to games that they can have fun in. Going 1 - 15 every match for a month is no fun, So CPM continue on with your misguided EVE ideals, but I've seen it first hand with multiple friends who are die hard FPS players and enjoyed dust for a few matches... then they graduated the academy. Iron Wolf if you and the devs continue on this road the playerbase will become stagnant and dust will become a mere side story of EVE. New player influx will come, but new player retention needs to be addressed if CCP doesn't want this game to just slowly die like MAG and I hate saying that because I love this game I and see the potential but new players who get destroyed instantly after "graduating" the academy don't.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11452	Posted - 2013.12.28 05:00:00 - [74] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. The problem is when people graduate the academy they don't stick around because the grind to get competitive is too long and for most people not worth the time. New players trying dust isn't the problem its new player retention.The harsh reality of the EVE universe works in EVE because of the security levels, in dust there's nothing but new players getting destroyed by vets. Sure some have the fortitude to stick it out and stay but 90% of people who tried to play don't and just quit and move on to games that they can have fun in. Going 1 - 15 every match for a month is no fun, So CPM continue on with your misguided EVE ideals, but I've seen it first hand with multiple friends who are die hard FPS players and enjoyed dust for a few matches... then they graduated the academy. Iron Wolf if you and the devs continue on this road the playerbase will become stagnant and dust will become a mere side story of EVE. New player influx will come, but new player retention needs to be addressed if CCP doesn't want this game to just slowly die like MAG and I hate saying that because I love this game I and see the potential but new players who get destroyed instantly after "graduating" the academy don't. Please re-read the statement I have made. I am not talking about the graduates. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3913	Posted - 2013.12.28 05:07:00 - [75] - Quote What were you talking about then? I could swear you are talking about the academy.. GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 3 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 725	Posted - 2013.12.28 05:10:00 - [76] - Quote Iron wolf we could have a million players graduate the academy but if they don't stick around because the game is insanely harsh for newbies then the player base hasn't grown at all. Getting new players to try the game isn't a problem, the problem is new player retention, and how you don't understand that as a CPM is mind boggling.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3918	Posted - 2013.12.28 05:49:00 - [77] - Quote Bump for CCP or cpm response GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 3 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2170	Posted - 2013.12.28 06:05:00 - [78] - Quote 15 minute academy is a joke, but so is the concept of protostomping. it falls to matchmaking and a sufficient playerbase to fix these things. anything else is simply a person using the gear they earned and purchased and other people being butthurt and poor. "He shouldve realized at that point I was lying as I'd already had my morning poo and I don't read newspapers." CB Vet
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1022	Posted - 2013.12.28 06:29:00 - [79] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. Pauses Tales of Graces. No. Since Academy "graduates" quit either a day or a week later. Whats needed is player base GROWTH along with player base RETENTION. Hmmm Dragons Dogma or Tales of Xillia as next game to be played?? Goes back to playing Tales of Graces. Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 676	Posted - 2013.12.28 12:41:00 - [80] - Quote idea is bad in many many more ways than it is good. go back to the drawing board because this idea is just bad in so many ways just incase you missed it ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: with your plan: 1)all mercs below pro status would not be able to do FW or PC at all.(reason being that in order to play these matches they would have to be matched with other players of a different level which your idea does not allow) 2)corps will not be able to scout for new players as they would never see any. 3)you now have pro's training against pro's honing their skills. all these noobs/adv players would be walking into a kill fest. they would not stand a chance. at the moment alot of pro's train against weaker targets and that only makes people lazy. going up against pro's all the time would only make the gap even bigger for those just joining the ranks. 4)corps can no longer play with their corp mates because some have more sp than others. we have some awesome <5mil sp guys rolling with the 20+million+ crew. they would no longer be able to do that with your idea. plenty of reasons why this wont wonk https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11461	Posted - 2013.12.28 13:02:00 - [81] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. Pauses Tales of Graces. No. Since Academy "graduates" quit either a day or a week later. Whats needed is player base GROWTH along with player base RETENTION. Hmmm Dragons Dogma or Tales of Xillia as next game to be played?? Goes back to playing Tales of Graces. Why can't people seem to understand as to why I would make such statement? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
NomaDz 2K DUTY FR33 97	Posted - 2013.12.28 13:09:00 - [82] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. /Signed AgreeD , even suggested something similar in the past highlighted in Bold BUT CCP WON'T DO !T . All I know is that I had alot of people involved with dust which probably only 10% play it now and again... DON'T SPEND CA$H ON DUST 514 CCP WILL ONLY GIVE YOU AUR AFTER THEY REMOVE YOUR BPOs WHICH U SPENT REAL MONGé¼Y ON!
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 676	Posted - 2013.12.28 13:43:00 - [83] - Quote NomaDz 2K wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. /Signed AgreeD , even suggested something similar in the past highlighted in Bold BUT CCP WON'T DO !T . All I know is that I had alot of people involved with dust which probably only 10% play it now and again... ccp wont do it because it wont work https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 736	Posted - 2013.12.28 13:52:00 - [84] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: idea is bad in many many more ways than it is good. go back to the drawing board because this idea is just bad in so many ways just incase you missed it ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: with your plan: 1)all mercs below pro status would not be able to do FW or PC at all.(reason being that in order to play these matches they would have to be matched with other players of a different level which your idea does not allow) 2)corps will not be able to scout for new players as they would never see any. 3)you now have pro's training against pro's honing their skills. all these noobs/adv players would be walking into a kill fest. they would not stand a chance. at the moment alot of pro's train against weaker targets and that only makes people lazy. going up against pro's all the time would only make the gap even bigger for those just joining the ranks. 4)corps can no longer play with their corp mates because some have more sp than others. we have some awesome <5mil sp guys rolling with the 20+million+ crew. they would no longer be able to do that with your idea. plenty of reasons why this wont wonk In case you missed it adam stlcarlos989 wrote: Thats why you keep some game modes that are free for all at any skill level or gear level. My point was to give the players who aren't skilled enough to compete against people of higher SP to play against others at similar levels. It also allows vets who enjoy the challenge to face other protos. Its not that much fun destroying militia suits in my protogear, but taking out other protos is the best. STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 736	Posted - 2013.12.28 13:54:00 - [85] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Thats why you keep some game modes that are free for all at any skill level or gear level. My point was to give the players who aren't skilled enough to compete against people of higher SP to play against others at similar levels. It also allows vets who enjoy the challenge to face other protos. Its not that much fun destroying militia suits in my protogear, but taking out other protos is the best. STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 226	Posted - 2013.12.28 13:59:00 - [86] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. Good idea in fact ! But i think to bring more players PVE would be better. PVE AND your idea ? Jackpot.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 676	Posted - 2013.12.28 14:12:00 - [87] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: idea is bad in many many more ways than it is good. go back to the drawing board because this idea is just bad in so many ways just incase you missed it ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: with your plan: 1)all mercs below pro status would not be able to do FW or PC at all.(reason being that in order to play these matches they would have to be matched with other players of a different level which your idea does not allow) 2)corps will not be able to scout for new players as they would never see any. 3)you now have pro's training against pro's honing their skills. all these noobs/adv players would be walking into a kill fest. they would not stand a chance. at the moment alot of pro's train against weaker targets and that only makes people lazy. going up against pro's all the time would only make the gap even bigger for those just joining the ranks. 4)corps can no longer play with their corp mates because some have more sp than others. we have some awesome <5mil sp guys rolling with the 20+million+ crew. they would no longer be able to do that with your idea. plenty of reasons why this wont wonk In case you missed it adam stlcarlos989 wrote: Thats why you keep some game modes that are free for all at any skill level or gear level. My point was to give the players who aren't skilled enough to compete against people of higher SP to play against others at similar levels. It also allows vets who enjoy the challenge to face other protos. Its not that much fun destroying militia suits in my protogear, but taking out other protos is the best. thats the whole point. they are meant to be free for all. i know players who use nothing but standard and mlt with 5mil or less sp and they kill protos all day long. at the same time i know 20mil+ players who have less sp skilled into a single role than most low sp players who skilled into a singular purpose. how do you balance that. you seem to neglect the fact someone with 5mil sp can proto out an assault suit quite easily. where does that leave your idea. you only have to look at the current academy to see peoples alts already doing this to some extent. sp is not a balancing factor to base balances like this on as everyone spends it differently. sure we need more gameplay modes but your suggestion is not a new game play mode. its a blanket restriction to all gameplay based on something arbitrary like current sp total. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 739	Posted - 2013.12.28 14:20:00 - [88] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: idea is bad in many many more ways than it is good. go back to the drawing board because this idea is just bad in so many ways just incase you missed it ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: with your plan: 1)all mercs below pro status would not be able to do FW or PC at all.(reason being that in order to play these matches they would have to be matched with other players of a different level which your idea does not allow) 2)corps will not be able to scout for new players as they would never see any. 3)you now have pro's training against pro's honing their skills. all these noobs/adv players would be walking into a kill fest. they would not stand a chance. at the moment alot of pro's train against weaker targets and that only makes people lazy. going up against pro's all the time would only make the gap even bigger for those just joining the ranks. 4)corps can no longer play with their corp mates because some have more sp than others. we have some awesome <5mil sp guys rolling with the 20+million+ crew. they would no longer be able to do that with your idea. plenty of reasons why this wont wonk In case you missed it adam stlcarlos989 wrote: Thats why you keep some game modes that are free for all at any skill level or gear level. My point was to give the players who aren't skilled enough to compete against people of higher SP to play against others at similar levels. It also allows vets who enjoy the challenge to face other protos. Its not that much fun destroying militia suits in my protogear, but taking out other protos is the best. thats the whole point. they are meant to be free for all. i know players who use nothing but standard and mlt with 5mil or less sp and they kill protos all day long. at the same time i know 20mil+ players who have less sp skilled into a single role than most low sp players who skilled into a singular purpose. how do you balance that. you seem to neglect the fact someone with 5mil sp can proto out an assault suit quite easily. where does that leave your idea. you only have to look at the current academy to see peoples alts already doing this to some extent. sp is not a balancing factor to base balances like this on as everyone spends it differently. sure we need more gameplay modes but your suggestion is not a new game play mode. its a blanket restriction to all gameplay based on something arbitrary like current sp total. You don't seem to get it, It doesn't have to be SP based it can be WP based or kill total based or whatever. The point is to keep new players together until they can compete because what we have now is killing new player retention. Also you mentioned corps not being able to recruit new players that they would never see..... make a recruiter alt.... PSN's are free. STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 160	Posted - 2013.12.28 14:46:00 - [89] - Quote Yes in first suggestion NO to the second suggestion I want to ad it should be the new player free to try the higher lvl if he/she wants 2 have a go. I also have friends that love the game in academy but just leave after a couple of runs outside it. Any way there must be a easy game mode for new players if this game is going to survive in the long run, it's kind of like the security space in eve where you can learn in a safe way about the game and as as you grow you leave 1,0 to some more challenging game play.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 676	Posted - 2013.12.28 16:33:00 - [90] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: You don't seem to get it, It doesn't have to be SP based it can be WP based or kill total based or whatever. The point is to keep new players together until they can compete because what we have now is killing new player retention. Also you mentioned corps not being able to recruit new players that they would never see..... make a recruiter alt.... PSN's are free. sp wont work as i stated above wp wont work because they fluctuate too much. you have good days and you have bad days and if you logibro i.e not killing you end up with more point than the killers so that defeats the whole purpose of basing it on wp. kdr is one of the most messed up stats on the leaderboard. how can anyone consider using that as a means to balance. total kills is also not a balance factor because some play more than others or have good or bad days. you talk about retention like dust is dieing but its far from that. dust is no different than eve. its a harsh universe and you either fight through it or you die. you don't demand ccp to hold your hand and guide you through it. thats just stupid and goes against everything that makes eve good and when all the content is out will make dust great too. what happens if ccp implements anything like your idea and gains thousands of new players. what happens when the training wheels are removed and people see the true harshness of dust and eve. they will drop by the thousands only they will take their friends with them and create masses of negative media attention and that will truely kill dust. if your friends cant handle the pain then they are in the wrong game. this is not cod or BF with zero consequences where everyone is in the exact same gear with the exact same skill. this is meant to a harsh environment to create great combat and gameplay. dumbing it down and making it safe to play is pointless also your suggestion of making alts for recruiting. its one thing to see a noob succeed against extreme odds against a proto swarm but how do you measure a good player when he is up against weaker or similar targets. if you want the best you need to see them at their best. how would having an alt in the lower and mid levels help me determine if that guy is any good when the odds are too balanced. it hardly makes for an epic war game when you never have to worry about the unknown or what the next guy might do. when i started out after fanfest i was massively out skilled yet i kept hitting the proto stompers hard and it only made me better for it. if i was up against similar players the game would be boring and pointless to play and likely i wouldn't be where i am today. good soldiers are forged in fire. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find

stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 741	Posted - 2013.12.28 16:41:00 - [91] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: You don't seem to get it, It doesn't have to be SP based it can be WP based or kill total based or whatever. The point is to keep new players together until they can compete because what we have now is killing new player retention. Also you mentioned corps not being able to recruit new players that they would never see..... make a recruiter alt.... PSN's are free. sp wont work as i stated above wp wont work because they fluctuate too much. you have good days and you have bad days and if you logibro i.e not killing you end up with more point than the killers so that defeats the whole purpose of basing it on wp. kdr is one of the most messed up stats on the leaderboard. how can anyone consider using that as a means to balance. total kills is also not a balance factor because some play more than others or have good or bad days. you talk about retention like dust is dieing but its far from that. dust is no different than eve. its a harsh universe and you either fight through it or you die. you don't demand ccp to hold your hand and guide you through it. thats just stupid and goes against everything that makes eve good and when all the content is out will make dust great too. what happens if ccp implements anything like your idea and gains thousands of new players. what happens when the training wheels are removed and people see the true harshness of dust and eve. they will drop by the thousands only they will take their friends with them and create masses of negative media attention and that will truely kill dust. if your friends cant handle the pain then they are in the wrong game. this is not cod or BF with zero consequences where everyone is in the exact same gear with the exact same skill. this is meant to a harsh environment to create great combat and gameplay. dumbing it down and making it safe to play is pointless also your suggestion of making alts for recruiting. its one thing to see a noob succeed against extreme odds against a proto swarm but how do you measure a good player when he is up against weaker or similar targets. if you want the best you need to see them at their best. how would having an alt in the lower and mid levels help me determine if that guy is any good when the odds are too balanced. it hardly makes for an epic war game when you never have to worry about the unknown or what the next guy might do. when i started out after fanfest i was massively out skilled yet i kept hitting the proto stompers hard and it only made me better for it. if i was up against similar players the game would be boring and pointless to play and likely i wouldn't be where i am today. good soldiers are forged in fire. If dust got an in flux of thousands of new players it would be great because then the matchmaking system would work better. Yes SP, WP, and kills may not be ideal but something must be done to separate full proto players full militia and standard players. Perhaps lobbies with meta level restriction would be best but doing nothing is the worst thing CCP could do. Also is a new player is destroying against other new players in the same gear its a good identifier that he has FPS skill which will translate to higher gear levels. Yes I know its a harsh game and I enjoy a challenge its why I always play campaigns and single players game on the hardest difficulty. But not every one wants that, so is keep Dust harsh worth letting the player base slowly dwindle away because the new player retention rate is abysmal? STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
Soulja Ghostface MCDUSTDONALDS Zero-Day 2167	Posted - 2013.12.28 16:48:00 - [92] - Quote i can barley get in an ambush with full players what will splitiing the already low base do too liitle too late, everybody that is WAS interested in dust has played it and already associated it with getting stomped Maybe when it expands to more than the ps3 but for now we just grit our teeth and redline or get redlined Storing Ammo- The Process Of Playing Dust 514 And Remembering LoL Moments, Then Rhyming About Them. Soulja Ghostface
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 676	Posted - 2013.12.28 16:52:00 - [93] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: You don't seem to get it, It doesn't have to be SP based it can be WP based or kill total based or whatever. The point is to keep new players together until they can compete because what we have now is killing new player retention. Also you mentioned corps not being able to recruit new players that they would never see..... make a recruiter alt.... PSN's are free. sp wont work as i stated above wp wont work because they fluctuate too much. you have good days and you have bad days and if you logibro i.e not killing you end up with more point than the killers so that defeats the whole purpose of basing it on wp. kdr is one of the most messed up stats on the leaderboard. how can anyone consider using that as a means to balance. total kills is also not a balance factor because some play more than others or have good or bad days. you talk about retention like dust is dieing but its far from that. dust is no different than eve. its a harsh universe and you either fight through it or you die. you don't demand ccp to hold your hand and guide you through it. thats just stupid and goes against everything that makes eve good and when all the content is out will make dust great too. what happens if ccp implements anything like your idea and gains thousands of new players. what happens when the training wheels are removed and people see the true harshness of dust and eve. they will drop by the thousands only they will take their friends with them and create masses of negative media attention and that will truely kill dust. if your friends cant handle the pain then they are in the wrong game. this is not cod or BF with zero consequences where everyone is in the exact same gear with the exact same skill. this is meant to a harsh environment to create great combat and gameplay. dumbing it down and making it safe to play is pointless also your suggestion of making alts for recruiting. its one thing to see a noob succeed against extreme odds against a proto swarm but how do you measure a good player when he is up against weaker or similar targets. if you want the best you need to see them at their best. how would having an alt in the lower and mid levels help me determine if that guy is any good when the odds are too balanced. it hardly makes for an epic war game when you never have to worry about the unknown or what the next guy might do. when i started out after fanfest i was massively out skilled yet i kept hitting the proto stompers hard and it only made me better for it. if i was up against similar players the game would be boring and pointless to play and likely i wouldn't be where i am today. good soldiers are forged in fire. If dust got an in flux of thousands of new players it would be great because then the matchmaking system would work better. Yes SP, WP, and kills may not be ideal but something must be done to separate full proto players full militia and standard players. Perhaps lobbies with meta level restriction would be best but doing nothing is the worst thing CCP could do. this would only be viable on pub matches but everything else it would not work on. this would create the problem of new players attempting to progress into new content such as FW or PC and coming up against the proto players without any experiance at fighting them. would you as a new player really want to be stuck in nothing but pub matches. one day you are eventually going to want to progress but its going to be far harder than it currently is as you are likely to have never experience a full on proto attack and not likely to know any really good proto players to show you the ropes. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
THE DRiZZLE AQUA TEEN KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 194	Posted - 2013.12.29 01:28:00 - [94] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. No you don't you need to separate 30 mill vets from New players. We play this everyday we are experiencing these problems. The servers numbers where merged with eve to mask the dwindling player base. Listen to your community because people are quitting by the dozen and I meen vets people who have spent 100's of dollars not a new player who just started dust a week ago. I tried to recommend this to a friend and he quit withing two days. There are no new players just vets who come back for updates. In hope that you CCP has actually done something with this game. This game will fail no it already is listen to us for we only want to save dust more then you. For you it's a paycheck to us it's enjoyment something money can't buy. Beta Vet " Dust warrior not A forum warrior " noob tears make the world go round
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command 900	Posted - 2013.12.29 01:36:00 - [95] - Quote Talryn Vilneram wrote: I always thought it would wouldn't be a bad idea to restrict tiers of equipment in Public contracts can only be Meta 0 or 1 items. FW can be ADV and only PROTO is allowed in PC matches. This is a horrible idea, me thinks. Lore-wise: Calamari are my preferred. Amarricans are my despised. Importantly: Frogs n' Brutes have all my stuff...
Onesimus Tarsus 736	Posted - 2013.12.29 01:45:00 - [96] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Wouldn't work. Because what we have is working wonders on growing the player base Honestly how did this guy get CPM I believe it involved having incriminating photographs of CCP personnel. Big red button that respecs your SP on demand. Protos only get points from killing protos.
David Spd Caldari State 118	Posted - 2013.12.29 11:14:00 - [97] - Quote THE DRiZZLE AQUA TEEN wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. No you don't you need to separate 30 mill vets from New players. We play this everyday we are experiencing these problems. The servers numbers where merged with eve to mask the dwindling player base. Listen to your community because people are quitting by the dozen and I meen vets people who have spent 100's of dollars not a new player who just started dust a week ago. I tried to recommend this to a friend and he quit withing two days. There are no new players just vets who come back for updates. In hope that you CCP has actually done something with this game. This game will fail no it already is listen to us for we only want to save dust more then you. For you it's a paycheck to us it's enjoyment something money can't buy. You don't seem to understand what the CPM is, exactly. You can lecture the CPM as much as you like but ultimately CCP is calling the shots and has first and last say on everything Dust related. Also consider adding some line breaks so your posts look cleaner. Helps you get your posts read and ackowledged instead of dismissed as entitled whining, due to being a giant wall of text. Also slightly off-topic, but I would argue enjoyment is oftentimes something that can be gained by spending money. There's a quite a few holidays that revolve around getting enjoyment from things that money bought, for example. Money can (and has) buy enjoyment. Not sure if you pulled that last part out of your ass or what... pretty funny though. --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
THE DRiZZLE AQUA TEEN KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 194	Posted - 2013.12.29 11:45:00 - [98] - Quote David Spd wrote: THE DRiZZLE AQUA TEEN wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. No you don't you need to separate 30 mill vets from New players. We play this everyday we are experiencing these problems. The servers numbers where merged with eve to mask the dwindling player base. Listen to your community because people are quitting by the dozen and I meen vets people who have spent 100's of dollars not a new player who just started dust a week ago. I tried to recommend this to a friend and he quit withing two days. There are no new players just vets who come back for updates. In hope that you CCP has actually done something with this game. This game will fail no it already is listen to us for we only want to save dust more then you. For you it's a paycheck to us it's enjoyment something money can't buy. You don't seem to understand what the CPM is, exactly. CPM are part of the "community"; they're not CCP staff. You can lecture the CPM as much as you like but ultimately CCP is calling the shots and has first and last say on everything Dust related. Also consider adding some line breaks so your posts look cleaner. Helps you get your posts read and ackowledged instead of dismissed as entitled whining, due to being a giant wall of text. Also slightly off-topic, but I would argue enjoyment is oftentimes something that can be gained by spending money. There's a quite a few holidays that revolve around getting enjoyment from things that money bought, for example. Money can (and has) buy enjoyment. Not sure if you pulled that last part out of your ass or what... pretty funny though. Yes just like this game I have no responses you have already made up your mind Beta Vet " Dust warrior not A forum warrior " noob tears make the world go round
THE DRiZZLE AQUA TEEN Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 196	Posted - 2013.12.31 00:51:00 - [99] - Quote Shiruba Ryou wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think there needs to be something done to push people to learn how to play in a squad/team. Perhaps there needs to be squad leader skills that give certain boosts to squad members. Something to push people to group up. Leadership Squad bonuses would be very nice. It would further divided normals from squared members yes. But it would push people into corporations and squads and encourage people to really play together. They could also add Corporation Public matches. Available only to player owned corporations and allow fully stocked teams. It can follow the old Corporation Contracts system but also allow the issuer to set tier restrictions. This gives corporations the ability to have fun games without worrying about useless teammatea. Spies are the corporation's responsibility to maintain. This will push people to corporations even more for the chance at good team matches. The tier restrictions will encourage weaker corps to fright as well. Both teams being full of non useless people hopefully and both locked to a tier limit. Thank you Beta Vet " Dust warrior not A forum warrior " noob tears make the world go round
Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 171	Posted - 2014.01.01 08:51:00 - [100] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. The problem is when people graduate the academy they don't stick around because the grind to get competitive is too long and for most people not worth the time. New players trying dust isn't the problem its new player retention.The harsh reality of the EVE universe works in EVE because of the security levels, in dust there's nothing but new players getting destroyed by vets. Sure some have the fortitude to stick it out and stay but 90% of people who tried to play don't and just quit and move on to games that they can have fun in. Going 1 - 15 every match for a month is no fun, So CPM continue on with your misguided EVE ideals, Funny thing is they AREN'T following EVE ideals as there is no security rating equivalent in DUST. They don't have misguided ideals - they are just haphazard in following the ideals they have!

Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 171	Posted - 2014.01.01 09:08:00 - [101] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. So what's the behavioural profile of the players before they cease playing - CCP data mine this, of course. If they get killed, they stop playing? Well because of the game you have, that means atleast 50% of that type of person will simply not play any further. Because one of them has to die. Nobody can without one of them killing the other. Best you could have is a PVE mode where the E is dummy and that way these types of players can win without killing other players like them/driving away other players like them.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1417	Posted - 2014.01.01 19:18:00 - [102] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: + teiricide Bringing us one step closer to CoD: New Eden. How about we fix the matchmaker before tiericiding? How about we fix controls before tiericiding? How about we look at Warpoints, skillpoints, KDR reporting and differential reward structures before tiericiding? How about we complete the racial lineups and add all equipment before tiericiding? How about we create an NPE that actually prepares peeps for the New Eden battefield? Why am i resistant to tiericide? Because we all know from hands-on personal experience that it will not alter the pubstomping dynamic one iota. Might change the final scoreboard by 10%, prolly not even that much, tbh. Tiericide is the wrong answer to the right question. I support SP rollover.
Elmo Love U 514 Mile High Club 769	Posted - 2014.01.01 19:24:00 - [103] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: PVE will help but not everyone wants to play against bots. Pve is MUCH bigger then just 'drones'. The world will be at your finger tips. Blasting eve ships out of orbit. Buying your owwn turrets and installations. So much more. ChantsPVE PVE PVE PVE
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 793	Posted - 2014.01.01 19:30:00 - [104] - Quote Elmo Love U wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: PVE will help but not everyone wants to play against bots. Pve is MUCH bigger then just 'drones'. The world will be at your finger tips. Blasting eve ships out of orbit. Buying your owwn turrets and installations. So much more. That's great for some but not everyone, Personally I never play campaigns just multiplayer. This game would also benefit from some classic FPS game modes, CTF, S&D, etc. STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1417	Posted - 2014.01.01 19:39:00 - [105] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: idea is bad in many many more ways than it is good. go back to the drawing board because this idea is just bad in so many ways just incase you missed it ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: with your plan: 1)all mercs below pro status would not be able to do FW or PC at all.(reason being that in order to play these matches they would have to be matched with other players of a different level which your idea does not allow) 2)corps will not be able to scout for new players as they would never see any. 3)you now have pro's training against pro's honing their skills. all these noobs/adv players would be walking into a kill fest. they would not stand a chance. at the moment alot of pro's train against weaker targets and that only makes people lazy. going up against pro's all the time would only make the gap even bigger for those just joining the ranks. 4)corps can no longer play with their corp mates because some have more sp than others. we have some awesome <5mil sp guys rolling with the 20+million+ crew. they would no longer be able to do that with your idea. plenty of reasons why this wont wonk In case you missed it adam stlcarlos989 wrote: Thats why you keep some game modes that are free for all at any skill level or gear level. My point was to give the players who aren't skilled enough to compete against people of higher SP to play against others at similar levels. It also allows vets who enjoy the challenge to face other protos. Its not that much fun destroying militia suits in my protogear, but taking out other protos is the best. thats the whole point. they are meant to be free for all. i know players who use nothing but standard and mlt with 5mil or less sp and they kill protos all day long. at the same time i know 20mil+ players who have less sp skilled into a single role than most low sp players who skilled into a singular purpose. how do you balance that. you seem to neglect the fact someone with 5mil sp can proto out an assault suit quite easily. where does that leave your idea. you only have to look at the current academy to see peoples alts already doing this to some extent. sp is not a balancing factor to base balances like this on as everyone spends it differently. sure we need more gameplay modes but your suggestion is not a new game play mode. its a blanket restriction to all gameplay based on something arbitrary like current sp total. Just to touch on this point Adam, Carlos. Picking a good variable for the matchmaker to work with is a hard problem Best answer i've been able to come up with is a player's end-of-match ranking on the leaderboard, and this ranking has to be weighted by the lifetime end-of-match rankings of that player's teammates and enemies in each particular match. Think about your own personal experiences, and what your end-of-match ranking results typically are and how they vary with quality of teammates and quality of opponents. After thinking about that please let me know if you can think of a better predictive variable for determining a player's quality and who they should be matched with and against. I support SP rollover.
m621 zma OMFGZOMBIESRUN 67	Posted - 2014.01.01 19:43:00 - [106] - Quote Talryn Vilneram wrote: I always thought it would wouldn't be a bad idea to restrict tiers of equipment in Public contracts can only be Meta 0 or 1 items. FW can be ADV and only PROTO is allowed in PC matches. Stupid idea to limit proto to PC only.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 282	Posted - 2014.01.01 20:07:00 - [107] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: Split the players up. I know you've said you don't want to do that because of the small player base but by keeping everyone together you are hurting and severely reducing the new player influx. I've introduced 6 of my friends to Dust and all of them loved it until they left the academy. After a few day of me trying to coach them up and help them find a role they'd like they all quit because they got tried of getting destroyed every game by players like me who have 20+ million SP. I would love to be grouped up with and against full teams of other prototype players, It would mean more competitive matches. Its why I love PC, everyone has proto which means the winner is determined by skill, teamwork, and tactics also lag. New players ---------> 0 - 5 million SP Advanced Players --> 5 - 10 Million SP Veterans Players ---> 10 Million + SP Also to help player development accelerate SP gains in the first 2 levels New Players ---------> 2x Current SP gains Advanced Players --> 1.5x Current SP gains Veteran Players -----> Current SP gains This will grow player base by allowing new players to stay competitive against each other and also allow them to reach levels that allow them to compete with veterans sooner. Better yet just tiercide everything. Noobs can play with vets in a balanced battlefield, and what will really shine is player skill not proto modules. Not really. Gameplay and tactics are unique enough that CoD and BF skills don't automatically translate into Dust competitiveness. If you don't believe me, break out your own mlt and std with a full squad and continue stomping. You're always going to have guys who think 10-20 total hours of playing is a lot (novice players). Other games, where all the equipment is identical still have stomping for this reason (hundreds if not thousands of hours of experience vs a few dozen hours of experience). There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1046	Posted - 2014.01.01 20:21:00 - [108] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. Pauses Tales of Graces. No. Since Academy "graduates" quit either a day or a week later. Whats needed is player base GROWTH along with player base RETENTION. Hmmm Dragons Dogma or Tales of Xillia as next game to be played?? Goes back to playing Tales of Graces. Why can't people seem to understand as to why I would make such statement? How dense are you lot? I do have access to NDA content so let your imaginations work a short bit. Except that times up. 16 V 16 got old. In Replication(and the build before that) we had 24 V 24. We had small turrets that were eliminated and never came back. We have tank spam but CCP does not bother to implement any infantry trenches. Folks are looking foreward to 32 V 32 and 64 V 64 warfare. Any friends that I tell about Dust 514 after hearing that its going to take three to six months of grind say WHY? I ask them what do you mean? My friends say that in three to six months theres more advanced shooters and thus why bother with Dust 514?? And what do I tell them? Umm yeah grind for 3 to 6 months for a shooter that only has 16 V 16? In my case its just waiting for April to go PS4 only games. Sorry CCP. Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1351	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:07:00 - [109] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: [quote=Talryn Vilneram]I always thought it would wouldn't be a bad idea to restrict tiers of equipment in Public contracts can only be Meta 0 or 1 items. FW can be ADV and only PROTO is allowed in PC matches. Any split up based on equipment would be stupid. Because when does your suit count as proto? As soon as you use a proto suit? Fine. I'll take a militia suit with a proto weapon. Here I come! Or as soon as you use one proto item? This wouldn't work with Dusts fitting system. It would work fine. All militia gear with the exception of a few things are Meta 0. You could equip a proto weapon to a starter suit if it had pg /cpu for it but not uch else would go on the suit. This GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 802	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:34:00 - [110] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. Pauses Tales of Graces. No. Since Academy "graduates" quit either a day or a week later. Whats needed is player base GROWTH along with player base RETENTION. Hmmm Dragons Dogma or Tales of Xillia as next game to be played?? Goes back to playing Tales of Graces. Why can't people seem to understand as to why I would make such statement? How dense are you lot? I do have access to NDA content so let your imaginations work a short bit. Except that times up. 16 V 16 got old. In Replication(and the build before that) we had 24 V 24. We had small turrets that were eliminated and never came back. We have tank spam but CCP does not bother to implement any infantry trenches. Folks are looking foreward to 32 V 32 and 64 V 64 warfare. Any friends that I tell about Dust 514 after hearing that its going to take three to six months of grind say WHY? I ask them what do you mean? My friends say that in three to six months theres more advanced shooters and thus why bother with Dust 514?? And what do I tell them? Umm yeah grind for 3 to 6 months for a shooter that only has 16 V 16? In my case its just waiting for April to go PS4 only games. Sorry CCP. Yup, sad thing is CCP is treating this game like its a PC MMO not a console shooter the same leveling dynamics don't work and CCP hasn't realized it yet. STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado

Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1050	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:33:00 - [111] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Why can't people seem to understand as to why I would make such statement? How dense are you lot? I do have access to NDA content so let your imaginations work a short bit. Except that times up. 16 V 16 got old. In Replication(and the build before that) we had 24 V 24. We had small turrets that were eliminated and never came back. We have tank spam but CCP does not bother to implement any infantry trenches. Folks are looking foreward to 32 V 32 and 64 V 64 warfare. Any friends that I tell about Dust 514 after hearing that its going to take three to six months of grind say WHY? I ask them what do you mean? My friends say that in three to six months theres more advanced shooters and thus why bother with Dust 514?? And what do I tell them? Umm yeah grind for 3 to 6 months for a shooter that only has 16 V 16? In my case its just waiting for April to go PS4 only games. Sorry CCP. Yup, sad thing is CCP is treating this game like its a PC MMO not a console shooter the same leveling dynamics don't work and CCP hasn't realized it yet. Yeah. Choices are ISK play money or real life money and a good amount of it if I may say. Another problem is that in these advanced shooters if I produce ten assets be they suits, weapon mods, vehicle mods, etc. then SOE pays 80K United States of America Dollars. And here in anoxeric and content starved Dust 514 I get told to shut the **** up and by a CPM...lol!!! So in a few months time I rather be playing an advanced shooter and working on getting that 80K of real life money. Sorry CCP. Times up. Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1418	Posted - 2014.01.02 05:41:00 - [112] - Quote stlcarlos989 wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Why can't people seem to understand as to why I would make such statement? How dense are you lot? I do have access to NDA content so let your imaginations work a short bit. Except that times up. 16 V 16 got old. In Replication(and the build before that) we had 24 V 24. We had small turrets that were eliminated and never came back. We have tank spam but CCP does not bother to implement any infantry trenches. Folks are looking foreward to 32 V 32 and 64 V 64 warfare. Any friends that I tell about Dust 514 after hearing that its going to take three to six months of grind say WHY? I ask them what do you mean? My friends say that in three to six months theres more advanced shooters and thus why bother with Dust 514?? And what do I tell them? Umm yeah grind for 3 to 6 months for a shooter that only has 16 V 16? In my case its just waiting for April to go PS4 only games. Sorry CCP. Yup, sad thing is CCP is treating this game like its a PC MMO not a console shooter the same leveling dynamics don't work and CCP hasn't realized it yet. This is an old, old argument. I disagree - here's why: I could easily name 50 players, yourself among them, who could roll brand new toons, run starter fits, and still dominate pubs. Now if if that is true, then skillpoints and gear matter, but other things like gun game, battlefield awareness, tactics, communication and coordination matter a hell of a lot more. I support SP rollover.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Dust2Dust. Top Men. 331	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:39:00 - [113] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To massively increase player base is to increase the number of players graduating from academy to be frankly honest. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Why can't people seem to understand as to why I would make such statement? How dense are you lot? I do have access to NDA content so let your imaginations work a short bit. If this means what I think it meansGÇª Preeminent Scrambler Rifle User: Ice Up, Son.. Ice Up
Justice Darling Expert Intervention Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:54:00 - [114] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Fool dont you know dust should have basically the same new player experience as eve? On eve you are canonfodder till you get decent ships and modules. Till then you are just screwed and have to endulge in beeing stomped 24/7. Don't you mean 23/7 man really haven't you played eve before really :P a tier system wouldn't hurt this isn't eve after all cuss if it was you would just set your skills and not play for a month or two so that a side, as fun as it must be for the noobs to be hit with two rounds maybe 3 and die like flies after they have dropped 2 clips in their would be killers only to just break their shields. This aside as a long term thinking goes this is a good idea basing a system on skill points vers what you have on your drop suite hard to say what way to go. Its not like the system pays you more for losing more even if you win for right now so yeah.
Justice Darling Expert Intervention Caldari State 11	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:01:00 - [115] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Why can't people seem to understand as to why I would make such statement? How dense are you lot? I do have access to NDA content so let your imaginations work a short bit. Except that times up. 16 V 16 got old. In Replication(and the build before that) we had 24 V 24. We had small turrets that were eliminated and never came back. We have tank spam but CCP does not bother to implement any infantry trenches. Folks are looking foreward to 32 V 32 and 64 V 64 warfare. Any friends that I tell about Dust 514 after hearing that its going to take three to six months of grind say WHY? I ask them what do you mean? My friends say that in three to six months theres more advanced shooters and thus why bother with Dust 514?? And what do I tell them? Umm yeah grind for 3 to 6 months for a shooter that only has 16 V 16? In my case its just waiting for April to go PS4 only games. Sorry CCP. Yup, sad thing is CCP is treating this game like its a PC MMO not a console shooter the same leveling dynamics don't work and CCP hasn't realized it yet. This is an old, old argument. I disagree - here's why: I could easily name 50 players, yourself among them, who could roll brand new toons, run starter fits, and still dominate pubs. Now if if that is true, then skillpoints and gear matter, but other things like gun game, battlefield awareness, tactics, communication and coordination matter a hell of a lot more. Rolling them maybe, but as a point of not having to drop 3 clips in someone to just get them down to half armor that is where it matters, have to get over the eve mentality of I rule you cuss I have the best crap, when really thinking long term kids will not play if they are not having fun, great you older teen's rock out like the world is yours but you will only end up doing it by yourself in the end if things don't change!
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 809	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:08:00 - [116] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: This is an old, old argument. I disagree - here's why: I could easily name 50 players, yourself among them, who could roll brand new toons, run starter fits, and still dominate pubs. Now if if that is true, then skillpoints and gear matter, but other things like gun game, battlefield awareness, tactics, communication and coordination matter a hell of a lot more. Sure there are people who can do that but not everyone can, Even the highest skilled players still need time to get the game mechanics down. Which is why new players even the ones with great FPS skill quit before they get down the aim mechanics and learn what does and doesn't work. STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado


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