| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2010
   |
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Two things here....
1) Engagements are going to be pushed out even further with the new range weapons that are coming. This kills every suit but the assault suit if the logi can't carry a light weapon. If you disagree please try to explain what the role of the scout, heavy, and logi will be if everyone is standing 75m away from one another poking their heads from behind cover.
Do people remember the end of beta when laser rifles were beast mode with the sharpshooter skill providing range increase?
2) I don't want to play a logi that is sitting 75-100m away from the action. I already yearn for the game to become CQC again. I'm fairly certain you haven't seen QQ yet if you take away the light weapon from logis. Add up all the QQ from the tankers and the BPO crackheads you still won't approach the rage from the logis. I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514.
Any change that has been made to the game will not even remotely be as dramatic as taking the light weapon from the logi suit. I don't think it's possible to anticipate how drastic it will be. Be careful what you wish for.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1131
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514.
So true, because every Assault is using one....
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
449
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'll just keep leaving this all over the place, I guess:
John Demonsbane wrote:My head hurts. OK, many years ago in The Simpsons, the school strikes oil and poll their employees as to how to spend the money. The lunch lady comes in and says: lunch lady Doris wrote:
"The staff are complaining about the mice in the kitchen...."
"I want to hire a new staff!"
Logi bro said it himself, the problem is logis not using equipment. So, here's what we get: Logi bro wrote:
"The logistics players aren't using their equipment....."
"Let's take away their weapons!"
How does taking away a light weapon fix the problem of people not filling equipment slots? Oh, right, it doesn't!You are solving one problem by causing an entirely new and worse one? Brilliant! CCP hire this man immediately! Here's a novel idea, if we identify a problem, perhaps we could solve that actual problem. It's just crazy enough to work. If you think that logistics suits are problems because people don't use equipment, maybe we should get them to use equipment! Make the suits such that the fitting is not valid unless the equipment slots are full. My god, this isn't freaking rocket surgery.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7993
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one....
Zing!
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Mortedeamor
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
856
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
this game is dieing rapidly if ccp continues to make changes based of poor feedback from scrubs im done..im sick of trying to be reasonable and give logical arguments clearly the only things ccp takes with any grain of salt are qq's from players that havnt been in the game for more than a month |
dust badger
SOUND Mercs
Of Sound Mind
326
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one....
This
People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2012
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one....
I agree, there are a LOT. But changing this has big implications.
I think they can change this up without taking the light weapon. For example changing bonuses
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Daxxis KANNAH
Distinct Covert Initiative
464
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leave light weapon - take slots.
A logi should use cover (protection from his squad) to act.
If that is not the dynamic CCP wants then they should just drop all classes and make super logi suits for everyone to fit as they please. |
DEZKA DIABLO
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
It ll kill the game, that's how drastic it'll be.
Stupidest idea ever, like remove damage mods from logistic , give hmg more range, give scouts more speed, better scan percision an maybe a extra equipment slot or low for minhighfor gallente , give assaults a flux nade slot better CPU .
Like a logi can't use a 7 m shotgun give me a break, mine will rock 3 complex damage mods, ishikone smg, nano hives , core nades, an 3 types of remotes, bring on the qq |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2012
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:this game is dieing rapidly if ccp continues to make changes based of poor feedback from scrubs im done..im sick of trying to be reasonable and give logical arguments clearly the only things ccp takes with any grain of salt are qq's from players that havnt been in the game for more than a month
I find it hard to believe that it's coming up now with the "time to kill" being as low as it is.
I can be in a 1000HP suit and gets sliced down by a militia AR in a heartbeat.
And I've never run a proto suit without at least ADV equipment. Usually all proto with an ADV scanner.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
|
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2012
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:It ll kill the game, that's how drastic it'll be.
Stupidest idea ever, like remove damage mods from logistic , give hmg more range, give scouts more speed, better scan percision an maybe a extra equipment slot or low for minhighfor gallente , give assaults a flux nade slot better CPU .
Like a logi can't use a 7 m shotgun give me a break, mine will rock 3 complex damage mods, ishikone smg, nano hives , core nades, an 3 types of remotes, bring on the qq
And you'll be dead before you get within 50 meters of anybody to bring on tears.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1168
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly.
Signed, A Sidearm-Only Logi
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2012
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one....
I want to touch on this some more.
People chose the logi suits because they were clearly the best suits (the Amarr logi wasn't very good upon release and required a buff to get where the others are). This seems to be a problem that CCP is going to have to live with and work around. Anything as drastic as removing a light weapon will not have a positive outcome. We are almost 7 months out of Beta in a game that is on shaky ground, I hope they tread carefully here.
First thing they need to do is change the name. I think the Eve players are the ones that started the crying because of the Logi ships in Eve being the way they are.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7994
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:It ll kill the game, that's how drastic it'll be.
Stupidest idea ever, like remove damage mods from logistic , give hmg more range, give scouts more speed, better scan percision an maybe a extra equipment slot or low for minhighfor gallente , give assaults a flux nade slot better CPU .
Like a logi can't use a 7 m shotgun give me a break, mine will rock 3 complex damage mods, ishikone smg, nano hives , core nades, an 3 types of remotes, bring on the qq And you'll be dead before you get within 50 meters of anybody to bring on tears.
To be fair, you're a support unit, so you should only be pushing the enemy with your allies. Part of it is that we don't have a whole lot of equipment yet, which makes logi's a bit more focused on what they can actually do to support.
To be 100% honest, I would trade every point from my HMG for SMG's instead, since they're basically just stronger HMG's that you can fit two of, on any suit. Seriously, they're insanely good. A logistics character should be focusing on supporting his allies through healing, buffing, and debuffing, not through killing. If killing is how you want to support, the Assault suits were made just for you.
Logi's should be about manipulating the battlefield to their teams advantage, providing intel, healing shields and armor, distributing ammo and giving out damage buffs or temporary resistances to allies. Stuff like that. Logibro said these changes are still a long ways out, this simply shows that they don't want the support class being the slayer class, that's all.
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2014
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly.
I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment?
I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy?
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
624
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Logis should have their light weapon. Just make them have less high/low slots (tradeoff for having equipment) than the corresponding basic medium frames.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7995
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy?
Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind).
You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time.
Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_<
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2015
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:It ll kill the game, that's how drastic it'll be.
Stupidest idea ever, like remove damage mods from logistic , give hmg more range, give scouts more speed, better scan percision an maybe a extra equipment slot or low for minhighfor gallente , give assaults a flux nade slot better CPU .
Like a logi can't use a 7 m shotgun give me a break, mine will rock 3 complex damage mods, ishikone smg, nano hives , core nades, an 3 types of remotes, bring on the qq And you'll be dead before you get within 50 meters of anybody to bring on tears. To be fair, you're a support unit, so you should only be pushing the enemy with your allies. Part of it is that we don't have a whole lot of equipment yet, which makes logi's a bit more focused on what they can actually do to support. To be 100% honest, I would trade every point from my HMG for SMG's instead, since they're basically just stronger HMG's that you can fit two of, on any suit. Seriously, they're insanely good. A logistics character should be focusing on supporting his allies through healing, buffing, and debuffing, not through killing. If killing is how you want to support, the Assault suits were made just for you. Logi's should be about manipulating the battlefield to their teams advantage, providing intel, healing shields and armor, distributing ammo and giving out damage buffs or temporary resistances to allies. Stuff like that. Logibro said these changes are still a long ways out, this simply shows that they don't want the support class being the slayer class, that's all.
I'm well aware of the greatness of the SMG. Range is the issue. The low time to kill and the extreme ranges of weapons create boring game play and a lot of camping. I could have a Six Kin SMG with prof 5 and a couple damage mods, but it might as well be a shovel at range.
I think all of these support things are happening from logis in PC. Pubs are terrible, we cannot balance based off of solo playing scrubs going 0-17 in pub matches. If you try to set up a tactical squad and play within roles it goes to **** in 5 minutes in a pub. That logi killing you (not you, the QQer) 15 times is probably doing it because that's still the same suit he spawned in with thinking he might actually get a decent fight.
I've found that since the armor and rep tool buff that I contribute much better as a support logi. In a good fight I have fun doing it. But in a pub where its a red line hunt, I'll hunt red dots just like everyone else. How do you balance a class when so many people are playing the game so badly? Honestly I can't remember a time when pubs were this bad, but that's another issue.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
347
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Answer me this: in the army during deployments in hot zones are medics only equipped with side arms. If its in the U.S army operating proceedure ill accept it. If not why do it?
You are welcome for my leadership
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1168
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy?
Compact Nanos don't count. Also, what make you think they are actually tanking and not ganktanking with damage mods?
TBH, I think a fundamental component of the problem is the lack of incentive to defend. Which leads to people running around trading objectives and killwhoring.
You end up with a blob of AR Assport Logi and Heavies in LLAVs roaming from objective to objective.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
|
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2015
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_<
I don't even carry uplinks and nanohives anymore because of this. On my Gal logi I carry the Ishokone Gauged because of the 4th slot.
I normally carry a scanner, rep tool, and needle.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Sev Alcatraz
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
321
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
Remove the Logi"s Tank? remove all high/ low power slots bam you now have a field medic That is incapable of pushing objectives, and relies on others to run assault/heavy to push
Intern the Heavy/assault need the logi to rep/supply ammo |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2015
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sev Alcatraz wrote:Remove the Logi"s Tank? remove all high/ low power slots bam you now have a field medic That is incapable of pushing objectives, and relies on others to run assault/heavy to push
Intern the Heavy/assault need the logi to rep/supply ammo
You'll have to massively increase the ISK payouts according to WP gain if you do this. Of course the support player will have to push along with the players assaulting the point. But if you remove their tank the 70-100K of equipment they are using to support you will get expensive.
This is the part of the argument I don't understand. Is there going to be some area of the battlefield where the logis will hang out? Are we going to be able to throw nanohives great distances? Will rep tools have 50m ranges?
Maybe logis should be deployable equipment. We'll just take away supply depots and logis will be .5 meter a second slow moving supply depots.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7998
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that).
As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here.
And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything?
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2015
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Answer me this: in the army during deployments in hot zones are medics only equipped with side arms. If its in the U.S army operating proceedure ill accept it. If not why do it?
Medics in the Army carry an M4 and they are on the front lines.
But logis aren't medics.
Perhaps that's why I don't see the problem with it. I was an infantryman and was deployed in combat for 28 1/2 months. One the higher end teams everyone knows how to do the others job. You don't have concrete roles. Someone would have grabbed the "logis" gear (not necessary because we respawn) and they would have rolled on.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7998
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Answer me this: in the army during deployments in hot zones are medics only equipped with side arms. If its in the U.S army operating proceedure ill accept it. If not why do it? Medics in the Army carry an M4 and they are on the front lines. But logis aren't medics. Perhaps that's why I don't see the problem with it. I was an infantryman and was deployed in combat for 28 1/2 months. One the higher end teams everyone knows how to do the others job. You don't have concrete roles. Someone would have grabbed the "logis" gear (not necessary because we respawn) and they would have rolled on.
Except DUST isn't real life, surprisingly.
I can't remember the last time I watched a healer equip a greatsword and just go ham on a dungeon
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2015
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that).
As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here. And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything?
I think the assault suits should be faster (the movement speeds between the logi and the assualt should be greater) and they should be able to hit harder.
I have no idea what to do with the scout suits.
The heavy is close, but need better maps for CQC.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7998
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that).
As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here. And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything? I think the assault suits should be faster (the movement speeds between the logi and the assualt should be greater) and they should be able to hit harder. I have no idea what to do with the scout suits. The heavy is close, but need better maps for CQC.
Everything already hits too hard as it is, making things hit harder just makes things worse. What it boils down to is that support unit should never be doing more damage than the front line fighters, which we see ALL the time right now. You should have to choose, do all the cool support stuff, or kill all the doodz.
You shouldn't get both unless you're just a really talented player.
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2015
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Answer me this: in the army during deployments in hot zones are medics only equipped with side arms. If its in the U.S army operating proceedure ill accept it. If not why do it? Medics in the Army carry an M4 and they are on the front lines. But logis aren't medics. Perhaps that's why I don't see the problem with it. I was an infantryman and was deployed in combat for 28 1/2 months. One the higher end teams everyone knows how to do the others job. You don't have concrete roles. Someone would have grabbed the "logis" gear (not necessary because we respawn) and they would have rolled on. Except DUST isn't real life, surprisingly. I can't remember the last time I watched a healer equip a greatsword and just go ham on a dungeon
lol, I have no idea what you are talking about
I guess my point is that I don't see why everyone wants the logi to be a medic that can't kill. It doesn't appear that it was ever supposed to be that based on the suits that have been available in the year .
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
347
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nvm smgs are pretty good weapons. Full prof with damage mods makes them deadly. Increase range on them atleast.
You are welcome for my leadership
|
|
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8002
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Nvm smgs are pretty good weapons. Full prof with damage mods makes them deadly. Increase range on them atleast.
I would trade in every single point I have in HMGs for SMGs instead, they are SO much better
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2015
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that).
As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here. And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything? I think the assault suits should be faster (the movement speeds between the logi and the assualt should be greater) and they should be able to hit harder. I have no idea what to do with the scout suits. The heavy is close, but need better maps for CQC. Everything already hits too hard as it is, making things hit harder just makes things worse. What it boils down to is that support unit should never be doing more damage than the front line fighters, which we see ALL the time right now. You should have to choose, do all the cool support stuff, or kill all the doodz. You shouldn't get both unless you're just a really talented player.
I don't see untalented players killing anybody in great numbers.
You are talking about balancing the time to kill. I don't think nerfing logis solves that issue.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8002
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that).
As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here. And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything? I think the assault suits should be faster (the movement speeds between the logi and the assualt should be greater) and they should be able to hit harder. I have no idea what to do with the scout suits. The heavy is close, but need better maps for CQC. Everything already hits too hard as it is, making things hit harder just makes things worse. What it boils down to is that support unit should never be doing more damage than the front line fighters, which we see ALL the time right now. You should have to choose, do all the cool support stuff, or kill all the doodz. You shouldn't get both unless you're just a really talented player. I don't see untalented players killing anybody in great numbers. You are talking about balancing the time to kill. I don't think nerfing logis solves that issue.
It does when you consider that the player who is raking in thousands of WP for dropping a couple pieces of equipment, who's highlighting enemies, reviving his allies and keeping them repped.....is killing just as quickly and efficiently as the guy whos only job is to kill people.
It's a matter of balancing out the suits so everyone is fulfilling a role, instead of one player filling multiple roles just because he chose one suit over the other.
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Idye Lotz
xCosmic Voidx
Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
208
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
How about greater penalties for armour and damage mod stacking? Not sure the numbers, but make them have a very slight upgrade when stacked, so players will go with different mods rather than pure stacking. (Perhaps only for logi suits?)
Sorry for shooting you in the back. Now please look elsewhere so I can continue.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2017
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
[quote=DUST Fiend]
But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all.
You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal??
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Zene Ren
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
8
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
the thing with logi suit ATM is that they are ONE MAN ARMY now, with EHP/mods/equipment they will always be better then assault.
in the game that suppose to promote team based game play there is no place for ONE MAN ARMY RAMBO config IMO.
i find leaving only side arm weapon for logis a good thing.
i was talking about this still when i was in tritan industries with corp mates, that reformed to bullet cluster afterwards
no bonuses or gimping the stats will work as good as simply taking out the possibility to assault with light weapon for logi suits, it is the most simple and the best solution to OP status of players who want to only get KILLS in GOD mode suit that is logi suit ATM
that ofc is only my opinion but i can bet that only K/D whores will cry because LOGIS that actually support their squad will don't give a F. about having only side arm not all but most still that is IMO only.
those players will actually depend on whole squat to cover them as it should be while they will rep throw hives etc.
i would even buff their EHP in that config!!! |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8002
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:[quote=DUST Fiend]
But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all.
You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal??
Don't try to put words in my mouth, I was simply stating that the logi is a support character, and support characters typically do not out DPS the DPS characters.
We are not talking about the TTK issue as that is something that effects the entire player base. That is an entirely separate issue, and balancing the logi has no effect on that. If everyone is effected by the TTK change, then no one is.
Read / Vid / Stream
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
449
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... Zing!Also, to the above post, making logi equipment better while keeping their slaying power at or above the Assault's slaying power a fix does not make.
You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty.
I was quite disappointed to find out that the suit in fact can't run max equipment and be a kill machine like you would surely believe if you read the QQ on the forums. So, lets say you reduce the total CPU/PG by a small amount (I really should do the maths on this one of these days), but then give all the suits an equipment fitting reduction like the gallente suit. This way, someone who actually fills all their equipment slots with hign-end gear can still defend themselves (good luck going against the newly buffed AR or a RR with an SMG, btw) with lets say a GEK - that's usu what I run b/c the CRW-04 ScR uses too much CPU/PG because the equipment uses up less fitting cost. BUT, since you reduced the overall fitting power of the suit, if you don't use equipment, the suit becomes worse than it is now?
Does it make more sense now? If not then I can't help you, you are just doomed to be a nerftard like every other idiot on these forums.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
8010
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:[quote=DUST Fiend]
But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all.
You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal??
For the record, clerics can wear armor and have access to two handed maces.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8003
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... Zing!Also, to the above post, making logi equipment better while keeping their slaying power at or above the Assault's slaying power a fix does not make. You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty. I was quite disappointed to find out that the suit in fact can't run max equipment and be a kill machine like you would surely believe if you read the QQ on the forums. So, lets say you reduce the total CPU/PG by a small amount (I really should do the maths on this one of these days), but then give all the suits an equipment fitting reduction like the gallente suit. This way, someone who actually fills all their equipment slots with hign-end gear can still defend themselves (good luck going against the newly buffed AR or a RR with an SMG, btw) with lets say a GEK - that's usu what I run b/c the CRW-04 ScR uses too much CPU/PG because the equipment uses up less fitting cost. BUT, since you reduced the overall fitting power of the suit, if you don't use equipment, the suit becomes worse than it is now? Does it make more sense now? If not then I can't help you, you are just doomed to be a nerftard like every other idiot on these forums.
You might not be able to run max damage mods with that duvolle, but not only are you still running a duvolle, you've got a descent tank AND all the equipment you could hope for.
Does it make more sense now? If not then I can't help you, you are just doomed to be a noob who wants to do everything like every other idiot on these forums.
(see how flinging useless insults adds nothing to the discussion?)
Read / Vid / Stream
|
|
|
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
929
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
These posts remind me of the great big speed nerf years back... Same kind of people complaining. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
450
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... Zing!Also, to the above post, making logi equipment better while keeping their slaying power at or above the Assault's slaying power a fix does not make. You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty. I was quite disappointed to find out that the suit in fact can't run max equipment and be a kill machine like you would surely believe if you read the QQ on the forums. So, lets say you reduce the total CPU/PG by a small amount (I really should do the maths on this one of these days), but then give all the suits an equipment fitting reduction like the gallente suit. This way, someone who actually fills all their equipment slots with hign-end gear can still defend themselves (good luck going against the newly buffed AR or a RR with an SMG, btw) with lets say a GEK - that's usu what I run b/c the CRW-04 ScR uses too much CPU/PG because the equipment uses up less fitting cost. BUT, since you reduced the overall fitting power of the suit, if you don't use equipment, the suit becomes worse than it is now? Does it make more sense now? If not then I can't help you, you are just doomed to be a nerftard like every other idiot on these forums. You might not be able to run max damage mods with that duvolle, but not only are you still running a duvolle, you've got a descent tank AND all the equipment you could hope for. Does it make more sense now? If not then I can't help you, you are just doomed to be a noob who wants to do everything like every other idiot on these forums. (see how flinging useless insults adds nothing to the discussion?)
I hit post instead of preview prematurely. See the updated version. Also, please explain how if I can run a duvolle on a proto suit with no damage mods that it is either:
a) Totally unreasonable since it's a proto suit
b) Makes me better at killing than an assault who can run that duvolle with 2 damage mods?
(EDIT: I also don''t use duvolles. I use mostly ADV level weapons as I stated in the first post)
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
Daxxis KANNAH
Distinct Covert Initiative
465
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:[quote=DUST Fiend]
But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all.
You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal?? For the record, clerics can wear armor and have access to two handed maces.
But in general - the paradigm is healers / mages / medic / engineers etc etc etc are not front line death dealers.
This is the reason many have made an issue about one class standing out too much and why CCP are deciding whether to tinker more with it. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2021
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:[quote=DUST Fiend]
But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all.
You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal?? Don't try to put words in my mouth, I was simply stating that the logi is a support character, and support characters typically do not out DPS the DPS characters. We are not talking about the TTK issue as that is something that effects the entire player base. That is an entirely separate issue, and balancing the logi has no effect on that. If everyone is effected by the TTK change, then no one is.
Agreed, we are actually on the same page here.
I don't think that logis should be able to out DPS an assault player either and certainly not a heavy.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Justice Prevails
119
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Two things here....
1) Engagements are going to be pushed out even further with the new range weapons that are coming. This kills every suit but the assault suit if the logi can't carry a light weapon. If you disagree please try to explain what the role of the scout, heavy, and logi will be if everyone is standing 75m away from one another poking their heads from behind cover.
Do people remember the end of beta when laser rifles were beast mode with the sharpshooter skill providing range increase?
2) I don't want to play a logi that is sitting 75-100m away from the action. I already yearn for the game to become CQC again. I'm fairly certain you haven't seen QQ yet if you take away the light weapon from logis. Add up all the QQ from the tankers and the BPO crackheads you still won't approach the rage from the logis. I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514.
Any change that has been made to the game will not even remotely be as dramatic as taking the light weapon from the logi suit. I don't think it's possible to anticipate how drastic it will be. Be careful what you wish for.
Good point! They are going to have to add more cover points to these maps. Probably should have been done long ago. Cover encourages tactics, not just point and shoot. Doing so would be at least a start to make the other suits viable.
Great job, team. Head back to the MCC for debriefing and cocktails.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2021
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:[quote=DUST Fiend]
But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all.
You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal?? For the record, clerics can wear armor and have access to two handed maces.
You may as well of written that in Chinese. I have no idea what you are talking about, lol
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2021
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Justice Prevails wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Two things here....
1) Engagements are going to be pushed out even further with the new range weapons that are coming. This kills every suit but the assault suit if the logi can't carry a light weapon. If you disagree please try to explain what the role of the scout, heavy, and logi will be if everyone is standing 75m away from one another poking their heads from behind cover.
Do people remember the end of beta when laser rifles were beast mode with the sharpshooter skill providing range increase?
2) I don't want to play a logi that is sitting 75-100m away from the action. I already yearn for the game to become CQC again. I'm fairly certain you haven't seen QQ yet if you take away the light weapon from logis. Add up all the QQ from the tankers and the BPO crackheads you still won't approach the rage from the logis. I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514.
Any change that has been made to the game will not even remotely be as dramatic as taking the light weapon from the logi suit. I don't think it's possible to anticipate how drastic it will be. Be careful what you wish for. Good point! They are going to have to add more cover points to these maps. Probably should have been done long ago. Cover encourages tactics, not just point and shoot. Doing so would be at least a start to make the other suits viable.
See here we go, actual discussion about the implications of such a change.
Now we are talking!
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Cody Sietz
Unkn0wn Killers
Renegade Alliance
1587
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
"I propose we don't drop light weapons from the Logi suit, but instead make it harder for them to fit dmg mods"-Me
"NOOOOOO STFU!"-All Logis
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2021
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:These posts remind me of the great big speed nerf years back... Same kind of people complaining.
Eve?
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Morathi III
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Did someone have smoke too much weed to present such a terrible idea of logi only side arm... Seriously, i feel the logi is too strong because he get too much high/low slot but this idea is just terrible |
|
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2021
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:"I propose we don't drop light weapons from the Logi suit, but instead make it harder for them to fit dmg mods"-Me
"NOOOOOO STFU!"-All Logis
I agree with this. I think limiting DPS is a good idea. If a sidearm could reach out to the ranges that engagements will certainly be will the increased ranges then I'd be okay with it.
The range is the problem I have with the proposal.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
450
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:04:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:"I propose we don't drop light weapons from the Logi suit, but instead make it harder for them to fit dmg mods"-Me
"NOOOOOO STFU!"-All Logis
Why? That's a very odd solution to the issue. People would just shield tank more, which is every bit as effective as a damage mod in most cases. Go right ahead and do that, I'd take that over losing a light weapon any day. Dual tanking FTW.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
Cody Sietz
Unkn0wn Killers
Renegade Alliance
1587
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:"I propose we don't drop light weapons from the Logi suit, but instead make it harder for them to fit dmg mods"-Me
"NOOOOOO STFU!"-All Logis Why? That's a very odd solution to the issue. People would just shield tank more, which is every bit as effective as a damage mod in most cases. Go right ahead and do that, I'd take that over losing a light weapon any day. Dual tanking FTW. I don't have a problem with a Logi killing, it's just that Logis can fit 2-3 dmg mods and still have enough tank to out do any other suit. There's no sacrifice besides a sidearm and a bit of speed.
If you give them a higher stacking penalty then they will have to choose between dmg mods and shoes extenders(not a choice for the Gal Logi but whateves)
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
The Attorney General
ZionTCD
1465
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:
You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty.
Not true.
Amarr Logi Ak.0
3x Complex Damage mods
Duvolle
Submachine Gun
Locus grenade
4x basic plate
Wyrikomi Triage Hive
Allotek Hive
Allotek Stable Uplink
Proto links and two repping hives, with three complex damage mods.
If I had dropsuit engineering 5, I would be able to step up the grenade.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2021
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty.
Not true. Amarr Logi Ak.0 3x Complex Damage mods Duvolle Submachine Gun Locus grenade 4x basic plate Wyrikomi Triage Hive Allotek Hive Allotek Stable Uplink Proto links and two repping hives, with three complex damage mods. If I had dropsuit engineering 5, I would be able to step up the grenade.
But you've ignored the racial bonus and your HP has suffured greatly to bring that DPS to the battlefield.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8003
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty.
Not true. Amarr Logi Ak.0 3x Complex Damage mods Duvolle Submachine Gun Locus grenade 4x basic plate Wyrikomi Triage Hive Allotek Hive Allotek Stable Uplink Proto links and two repping hives, with three complex damage mods. If I had dropsuit engineering 5, I would be able to step up the grenade.
Thanks for showing the fit, I don't run logi or equipment so I don't really know what they're capable of fitting, just what I've seen in game and heard on the forums. That's still a pretty mean tank, and you have a built in complex armor rep.
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2021
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:"I propose we don't drop light weapons from the Logi suit, but instead make it harder for them to fit dmg mods"-Me
"NOOOOOO STFU!"-All Logis Why? That's a very odd solution to the issue. People would just shield tank more, which is every bit as effective as a damage mod in most cases. Go right ahead and do that, I'd take that over losing a light weapon any day. Dual tanking FTW. I don't have a problem with a Logi killing, it's just that Logis can fit 2-3 dmg mods and still have enough tank to out do any other suit. There's no sacrifice besides a sidearm and a bit of speed. If you give them a higher stacking penalty then they will have to choose between dmg mods and shoes extenders(not a choice for the Gal Logi but whateves)
These are the kinds of things we have to be talking about. The DPS is the issue. Lower it for logis and increase it for the other suits.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2021
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Compact Nanos don't count. Also, what make you think they are actually tanking and not ganktanking with damage mods? TBH, I think a fundamental component of the problem is the lack of incentive to defend. Which leads to people running around trading objectives and killwhoring. You end up with a blob of AR Assport Logi and Heavies in LLAVs roaming from objective to objective.
You are delving into a different territory. Lets have a different thread on providing incentives for people to fight in pubs.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Zelorian Dexter snr
8thDivision
79
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
dust badger wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... This People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will.
Agree. I run Gallente logi and shock horror I run as a logi with my squad I carry an smg most the time as if they get in close its my last line of defence.
Something needs to be done about the logi slayers who are abusing the role of the suit. We all know there will be a million threads calling for respecs when this happens. I will not be one as I play as support and will continue to do so
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2024
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
Zelorian Dexter snr wrote:dust badger wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... This People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will. Agree. I run Gallente logi and shock horror I run as a logi with my squad I carry an smg most the time as if they get in close its my last line of defence. Something needs to be done about the logi slayers who are abusing the role of the suit. We all know there will be a million threads calling for respecs when this happens. I will not be one as I play as support and will continue to do so
In close ranges you can out DPS the most beastly heavies with a SMG and sidearm damage mods. The problem with this proposal and I outlined this in my OP is that the game is only going to get spread out more with the higher range weapons being introduced.
It'll be a race to the objectives. You only have a few points in all the maps that are defendable at short ranges.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
|
|
Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
613
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:35:00 -
[61] - Quote
The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8005
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:38:00 -
[62] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Zelorian Dexter snr wrote:dust badger wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... This People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will. Agree. I run Gallente logi and shock horror I run as a logi with my squad I carry an smg most the time as if they get in close its my last line of defence. Something needs to be done about the logi slayers who are abusing the role of the suit. We all know there will be a million threads calling for respecs when this happens. I will not be one as I play as support and will continue to do so In close ranges you can out DPS the most beastly heavies with a SMG and sidearm damage mods. The problem with this proposal and I outlined this in my OP is that the game is only going to get spread out more with the higher range weapons being introduced. It'll be a race to the objectives. You only have a few points in all the maps that are defendable at short ranges.
Why is your whole squad running sidearms, that's my question.
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Adiran Zanzalin
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
The issue I'm seing here is 2 fold. One par t player one part ccp.
The player side is expectation. I see you are logi. So I expect you to do just that. Logistics/revive/repair/support not out kill me and be better than me at my job what ever that is.
The ccp side is they alow the logi suit to do just that. Be better at almost everything. There is no built in rol for the suit. Yes its slower unless your minmatar no side arm unless your amarr ect. But when a skilled player gets ahold of it thoes are minor things that will hardly effect his performance.
If people want each suit to have a role ccp needs to give them one. Example: in eve online try taking a logi ship and combat fitting it to fight solo. Then take it up aginst a solo fit combat oriented ship. Didnt work did it. The problem there also is this is a different type of game. If say logis only had side arms they can still kill a assult. Unless the assult uses his role/range to his advantage. That is why I support that change if it were to happen. Its not rock paper scisors I win no matter what and skill/experience/tactics alow you to have a role but not gurante failure when given a certan situation. |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
519
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:42:00 -
[64] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant.
The problem s that I can't. I'm using ADV weapon with Basic Armor plaes, Complex Shield Extenders, with all Proo EQ and I barely have enough CPU RIGHT NOW. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1168
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:47:00 -
[65] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Answer me this: in the army during deployments in hot zones are medics only equipped with side arms. If its in the U.S army operating proceedure ill accept it. If not why do it? Medics in the Army carry an M4 and they are on the front lines. But logis aren't medics. Perhaps that's why I don't see the problem with it. I was an infantryman and was deployed in combat for 28 1/2 months. One the higher end teams everyone knows how to do the others job. You don't have concrete roles. Someone would have grabbed the "logis" gear (not necessary because we respawn) and they would have rolled on. Except DUST isn't real life, surprisingly. I can't remember the last time I watched a healer equip a greatsword and just go ham on a dungeon lol, I have no idea what you are talking about I guess my point is that I don't see why everyone wants the logi to be a medic that can't kill. It doesn't appear that it was ever supposed to be that based on the suits that have been available in the year .
Logis != Medic
Logis == Support guy with all of the equipment
Assault != guy with all the equipment
Assault == Frontline guy who kills most of the red doodz
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
The Shadow Prince
Harimau Malaya.
5
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:53:00 -
[66] - Quote
I agree that doing this will cause player count to drop even further. Instead of doing anything to the logi suit just buff assaults! enough with the nerfing.....you wanna make the assaults the primary SLAYER SUIT? Make the assault suit bonus 2% damage per level. The game will be closer to being balanced and you wont **** off >50% of the player base which will end up killing the game. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2029
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
[/quote]
Why is your whole squad running sidearms, that's my question.
[/quote]
6 man squad (2 logis, 2 heavies, 2 assaults).
They have to take an objective to win the match. Despite not having any confidence in their blue dots to hold the objective they've fought to hold they will take the chance (even though there is ZERO incentive for them to try and win the match).
They push toward the point and start to receive fire. They've moved as far as they can with cover. The only two people in their squad that can provide covering fire are the assaults as the others are out of range.
-----At this point in the engagement do you start to see the flaws??? More than likely you end up with a 6 man assault squad for the flexibility needed to be effective.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2029
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:02:00 -
[68] - Quote
The Shadow Prince wrote:I agree that doing this will cause player count to drop even further. Instead of doing anything to the logi suit just buff assaults! enough with the nerfing.....you wanna make the assaults the primary SLAYER SUIT? Make the assault suit bonus 2% damage per level. The game will be closer to being balanced and you wont **** off >50% of the player base which will end up killing the game.
AND take away the 10% damage buff from the logis.
If you do this it provides the balance without screwing up the entire game.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
603
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:11:00 -
[69] - Quote
There might be some other ways they can start by tweaking any of the following options:
Like a 2nd equipment slot for assault suits
No grenades for logi's
Maybe add a critical damage bonus for assault suits (+5% critical damage per level)
Tweak movement speed
Small buff to base HP on assault suits
tweak shield recharge/armor recharge
Longer reload times for logis, or faster reloads for assaults
(I played a lot of Borderlands 2 and enjoyed the numerous ways you could tweak stats in that game)
I would accept seeing any of the above considered for adjustment before making logi's sidearm only. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2029
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:15:00 -
[70] - Quote
ER-Bullitt wrote:There might be some other ways they can start by tweaking any of the following options:
Like a 2nd equipment slot for assault suits
No grenades for logi's
Maybe add a critical damage bonus for assault suits (+5% critical damage per level)
Tweak movement speed
Small buff to base HP on assault suits
tweak shield recharge/armor recharge
Longer reload times for logis, or faster reloads for assaults
(I played a lot of Borderlands 2 and enjoyed the numerous ways you could tweak stats in that game)
I would accept seeing any of the above considered for adjustment before making logi's sidearm only.
AHHH, another thinking man, refreshing
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
|
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8005
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:15:00 -
[71] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:6 man squad (2 logis, 2 heavies, 2 assaults).
They have to take an objective to win the match. Despite not having any confidence in their blue dots to hold the objective they've fought to hold they will take the chance (even though there is ZERO incentive for them to try and win the match).
They push toward the point and start to receive fire. They've moved as far as they can with cover. The only two people in their squad that can provide covering fire are the assaults as the others are out of range.
-----At this point in the engagement do you start to see the flaws??? More than likely you end up with a 6 man assault squad for the flexibility needed to be effective.
To be fair, most heavies won't cross large areas of open space without an LAV or Dropship. I was thinking things more like streets, for crossing. You definitely don't waddle out in wide open spaces as is, Logi's would just share that trait, and be more likely to wait for transportation. In 1.7 dropships will actually be able to take a hit, so hopefully we see them become much more common as time goes on, entirely eliminating the weakness of shorter range by inserting troops where they need to be, when they need to be there.
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
936
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:18:00 -
[72] - Quote
What a medium weapon slot was introduced and only heavies and assaults could carry them?
Heavy: HMG, FG
Medium: MD, PC, SL, (Maybe an AR or ScR)
Light: everything excluded from the above.
Sidearms
This may not be completely effective if the AR and ScR remain lights but it would still help.
What the fox say?
|
4447
Resolution XIII
865
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:21:00 -
[73] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... I want to touch on this some more. People chose the logi suits because they were clearly the best suits (the Amarr logi wasn't very good upon release and required a buff to get where the others are). This seems to be a problem that CCP is going to have to live with and work around. Anything as drastic as removing a light weapon will not have a positive outcome. We are almost 7 months out of Beta in a game that is on shaky ground, I hope they tread carefully here. First thing they need to do is change the name. I think the Eve players are the ones that started the crying because of the Logi ships in Eve being the way they are.
go away, i use a assault suit and I slay.
Troll, For lifeGǪ But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
|
ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
603
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
How about a clip size penalty for logi suits
Less ammo for the AR's, MD's, etc
Faster heat up for lazer weapons
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2035
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:34:00 -
[75] - Quote
4447 wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... I want to touch on this some more. People chose the logi suits because they were clearly the best suits (the Amarr logi wasn't very good upon release and required a buff to get where the others are). This seems to be a problem that CCP is going to have to live with and work around. Anything as drastic as removing a light weapon will not have a positive outcome. We are almost 7 months out of Beta in a game that is on shaky ground, I hope they tread carefully here. First thing they need to do is change the name. I think the Eve players are the ones that started the crying because of the Logi ships in Eve being the way they are. go away, i use a assault suit and I slay.
What are you talking about? Honestly I've read my statement a couple of times and attempted to make my brain have the response you gave and I'm still getting nothing.
Please use your words to elaborate.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
991
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:39:00 -
[76] - Quote
If I can't use my Cannon, I have no reason to play this game. I would probably uninstall Dust if I was restricted to sidearms only.
I don't mind sidearms only, I have 5 fits that only have sidearms, but being able to use only 4 weapons would become boring really fast. Even faster because my Cannon would be out of my reach.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
453
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:01:00 -
[77] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty.
Not true. Amarr Logi Ak.0 3x Complex Damage mods Duvolle Submachine Gun Locus grenade 4x basic plate Wyrikomi Triage Hive Allotek Hive Allotek Stable Uplink Proto links and two repping hives, with three complex damage mods. If I had dropsuit engineering 5, I would be able to step up the grenade.
Huh. Got me there, I'll have to try it out. I use armor reps so I never tried stacking a ton of basic plates like that. I guess it makes sense since they scale differently than shield extenders do and higher mods are less efficient.
Damnit, I'm doing it wrong, lol.
Nonetheless, equipment bonuses and modest reductions in CPU/PG still work way better than taking light weapons away. A new player with a STD logi suit and STD SMG with no dam mods would be a lamb to the slaughter.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
698
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
I support logis not having light weapons.
I believe this change will force logis to find groups of players to follow and...wait for it...support
If you want to shoot people, get an assault suit, if you want to help those shoot people, get a logi suit. You can still defend yourself up close with a scrambler pistol, SMG, nova knife, flaylock and maybe if/when ccp makes this change they will introduce another sidearm weapon.
Faction Channels for FW Staging
PIE Ground Control | Caldari Hierarchy | Turalyon | Chosen Matari
|
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
698
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:10:00 -
[79] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:The Attorney General wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty.
Not true. Amarr Logi Ak.0 3x Complex Damage mods Duvolle Submachine Gun Locus grenade 4x basic plate Wyrikomi Triage Hive Allotek Hive Allotek Stable Uplink Proto links and two repping hives, with three complex damage mods. If I had dropsuit engineering 5, I would be able to step up the grenade. Huh. Got me there, I'll have to try it out. I use armor reps so I never tried stacking a ton of basic plates like that. I guess it makes sense since they scale differently than shield extenders do and higher mods are less efficient. Damnit, I'm doing it wrong, lol. Nonetheless, equipment bonuses and modest reductions in CPU/PG still work way better than taking light weapons away. A new player with a STD logi suit and STD SMG with no dam mods would be a lamb to the slaughter.
the above fitting would put me at 521/512 CPU and 90/94 PG. I therefore believe it is possible because because I can still lower the CPU of my light weapon, sidearm and nade if I increased their passive skills from level 4 to 5.
None-the-less, I still support logis not using light weapons
Faction Channels for FW Staging
PIE Ground Control | Caldari Hierarchy | Turalyon | Chosen Matari
|
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
84
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
This is a game killer...
We as players are loosing options and survivability to suits a need to Spend money on boosters.A need to cross class .A need to spend sp on dropsuit upgrades....
With survivability of the logi suit being diminished it becomes Amarr commando which means I start going negative after match payout which means I ditch the suit .Which means I stop supporting.Which means you die more often .which means you run out of ammo.Which means you go broke.Which means.You buy Aurum.Which means you have to equip your assault with Aurum gear and now there is no one to rep you because LOgi is fd so no one plays it.
(in the future) Fw pays nothing you are loosing RL money .Your BPO"S have been removed.........an on and on down the toilet we go.
Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake
My motto regarding haters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
|
|
|
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
698
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:22:00 -
[81] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant.
actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit
Faction Channels for FW Staging
PIE Ground Control | Caldari Hierarchy | Turalyon | Chosen Matari
|
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
84
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:25:00 -
[82] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field....
Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed
Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake
My motto regarding haters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
|
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
84
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:27:00 -
[83] - Quote
Adiran Zanzalin wrote:The issue I'm seing here is 2 fold. One par t player one part ccp.
The player side is expectation. I see you are logi. So I expect you to do just that. Logistics/revive/repair/support not out kill me and be better than me at my job what ever that is.
The ccp side is they alow the logi suit to do just that. Be better at almost everything. There is no built in rol for the suit. Yes its slower unless your minmatar no side arm unless your amarr ect. But when a skilled player gets ahold of it thoes are minor things that will hardly effect his performance.
If people want each suit to have a role ccp needs to give them one. Example: in eve online try taking a logi ship and combat fitting it to fight solo. Then take it up aginst a solo fit combat oriented ship. Didnt work did it. The problem there also is this is a different type of game. If say logis only had side arms they can still kill a assult. Unless the assult uses his role/range to his advantage. That is why I support that change if it were to happen. Its not rock paper scisors I win no matter what and skill/experience/tactics alow you to have a role but not gurante failure when given a certan situation. i have 32 million sp ...that redistributed will allow me to do a great many things in this game far better than you.
Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake
My motto regarding haters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1168
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:20:00 -
[84] - Quote
Evicer wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed
Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
457
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:24:00 -
[85] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Evicer wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now.
With what? A std SMG with prof 0 and no damage mods? The current single-shot flaylock? Doubtful. The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
475
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:25:00 -
[86] - Quote
It's not about sidearm only or not, it's about CCP decisions and such. IF they do change logis to sidearm only, I will lose my last hope of faith in them. |
RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
475
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:27:00 -
[87] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote: The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto.
Wrong, you quoted some dude in your signature, maybe you have to use his wisdom when in the battlefield when using a sidearm only. |
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
87
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:29:00 -
[88] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Evicer wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. ive never even heard of you ....and what are you ranked
Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake
My motto regarding haters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
|
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
698
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:32:00 -
[89] - Quote
Evicer wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Evicer wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. ive never even heard of you ....and what are you ranked
never heard of you either
People who like being logis will be fine, the only people upset are the ones who like slaying in a logi suit so they still have equipment slots.
ishucone SMG kicks butt up close, if you get close to me, you will likely die.
Faction Channels for FW Staging
PIE Ground Control | Caldari Hierarchy | Turalyon | Chosen Matari
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
458
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:39:00 -
[90] - Quote
RKKR wrote:John Demonsbane wrote: The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto. Wrong, you quoted some dude in your signature, maybe you have to use his wisdom when in the battlefield when using a sidearm only.
Sure, I'll just sit behind cover all battle in my slow Amarr suit while the guy with the RR or newly range-buffed AR shoots at me from 100m away with pinpoint accuracy. Meanwhile everyone is running out of ammo and can't get reps or spawn.
Besides, didn't you just say you thought it would be a bad decision on CCPs part? I don't get it.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
|
|
Nirwanda Vaughns
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
208
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:41:00 -
[91] - Quote
Personally if they drop to sidearm only we should get an extra equipment slot (with increased CPU/PG) and also increase the base movement and sprint speed.
I'd quite like to see logis with a sidearm only. i think it would make an interesting change in the playstyle. plus assault guys are supposed to do the killing while we keep em alive.
Perhaps CCP should bring back the Type II/B-Type/Vk.1 suits and have the type II assaults with an extra equipment slot with similar shield/armor hp to the logis so the ones who want something similar to the assault logi's, can do
the Type II varients were great in chromo and filled a gap between the insane sp jumps between lv4 and 5 and could help keep players interested while skilling up. |
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
87
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:43:00 -
[92] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:
never heard of you either
People who like being logis will be fine, the only people upset are the ones who like slaying in a logi suit so they still have equipment slots.
ishucone SMG kicks butt up close, if you get close to me, you will likely die.
good luck getting close to weapons that will be hitting you at 100 m
Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake
My motto regarding haters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
459
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:49:00 -
[93] - Quote
Maximus Stryker wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:[quote=Evicer][quote=Maximus Stryker]The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now.
Quote:
People who like being logis will be fine, the only people upset are the ones who like slaying in a logi suit so they still have equipment slots.
ishucone SMG kicks butt up close, if you get close to me, you will likely die.
It does indeed. Pretty sure new players thinking about going into logistics won't have access to them, however.
And just to make things clear, my KDR sucks and my K/WP ratio is like 150 - kills account for only 1/3 of my career WP. Every one of my suits uses all equip slots and I can count on one hand the number of tines I've used a duvolle. I'm not even close to a murderlogi and I'm telling you this idea is shortsighted and will destroy the logistics class. There are far better ways to change the balance between assault and logi suits.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
Zaria Min Deir
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
324
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:50:00 -
[94] - Quote
dust badger wrote:
People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will.
Sorry to say, but you have no idea what you're talking about. First off, Logi =/= nothing but walking remote repper and nanite injector. Logistics is a role that is hell of a lot more varied than that, that is the reason the "pure" logis get 4 equipment slots and even the "combat" logis get 3. There are other equipment that a logi can use and other things a logi can do to support the team, and I know I've done my job as a logi even after games where I didn't have a nanite injector or a rep tool equipped.
Take the minmatar logi suit, it's inbuilt bonuses (when compared to other logi suits) are hacking speed and speed. That is why I chose the suit, and still continue to use it and love it, even though CCP has made speed tanking more and more irrelevant recently (all the poor scouts, I feel your pain). Sure I can run with a squad providing ammo and reps when needed, but that is most certainly not the only thing I do, and if it was the only thing I was able to do, I would have quit this game ages ago. For instance, I can be a 100% support logi and still get uplinks behind enemy lines and in flanking positions while the "slayers" of my team are engaging the enemy head on, I can provide my team intel on enemy positions, I can sneak in and get a speed hack off on an objective... The fits I run to do these things are flimsy as hell, I certainly can't spare the fitting to use damage mods, I barely have any HP as it is. So you can shove your "massive tank and high DPS" argument. My main defense is the fact that after sinking 20+ million skillpoints into my suit, all the relevant suit upgrades (things like hacking and biotics over HP there as well) and proto equipment across the board, I could then finally spare the SP to skill fairly highly into my main weapon (my only weapon, originally, as my suit has no sidearm slot, it really only makes sense to spec into a light weapon first, yes?)
You honestly think I shouldn't care about crap like this? Because if I was a true logi I wouldn't mind being almost completely defenseless against every random newberry in a frontline assault fit that just happens to be outside the (not exactly amazing) optimal range of an SMG? And not care about always losing my 200+k fits full of proto equipment there to service all the oh so important assault players, if those assault players fail to protect me as I hide behind my squad with my rep tool out, as you seem to think is the only thing a logi should do?
Logi suits have had a light weapon slot for all this time, I don't remember assault players crying about logi suits being OP in Chromosome, so maybe, just maybe, the weapon slot is not the problem here, people?
P.S. I know there are plenty of logis out there who totally rock an SMG, that's not the point, the point is players should have the ability to choose their weapon based on the range of engangement they think they will most likely find themselves in, that is the point of having a variety of weapons to choose from. If you are always up close and personal, yes, frankly, the SMG is beastly, but that shouldn't be the only playstyle available to a whole class of players.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
|
RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
476
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:05:00 -
[95] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:RKKR wrote:John Demonsbane wrote: The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto. Wrong, you quoted some dude in your signature, maybe you have to use his wisdom when in the battlefield when using a sidearm only. Sure, I'll just sit behind cover all battle in my slow Amarr suit while the guy with the RR or newly range-buffed AR shoots at me from 100m away with pinpoint accuracy. Meanwhile everyone is running out of ammo and can't get reps or spawn. Besides, didn't you just say you thought it would be a bad decision on CCPs part? I don't get it.
I did it with my slow-ass gallente back in the days when armor still sucked. Your situation is the fault of your teammates and your bad positioning, but we can discuss this endless, take it however you want.
Yes, because changing the logi-suit isn't going to solve the problems of this game and yes I would rather have my logi not restricted to side-arms only, but that doesn't mean that the quoted text isn't untrue. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
999
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:08:00 -
[96] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Evicer wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now.
By choice. Nobody wants to be forced and restricted into being able to use only 4 weapons.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
|
SirManBoy
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
359
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:11:00 -
[97] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_<
Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly.
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
460
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:21:00 -
[98] - Quote
RKKR wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:RKKR wrote:John Demonsbane wrote: The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto. Wrong, you quoted some dude in your signature, maybe you have to use his wisdom when in the battlefield when using a sidearm only. Sure, I'll just sit behind cover all battle in my slow Amarr suit while the guy with the RR or newly range-buffed AR shoots at me from 100m away with pinpoint accuracy. Meanwhile everyone is running out of ammo and can't get reps or spawn. Besides, didn't you just say you thought it would be a bad decision on CCPs part? I don't get it. I did it with my slow-ass gallente back in the days when armor still sucked. Your situation is the fault of your teammates and your bad positioning, but we can discuss this endless, take it however you want. Yes, because changing the logi-suit isn't going to solve the problems of this game and yes I would rather have my logi not restricted to side-arms only, but that doesn't mean that the quoted text isn't untrue.
Whatever, dude, you're a "better" player than me. So what?; It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, because using the relatively small number of people with well above average gungame with proto SMG's at prof 5 who have been doing it for months because it fits their style of play is hardly generalizable to the rest of the population.
Just because your particular style of play doesn't get affected doesn't mean it's a good idea. Did any of you run sidearm only at, say, ADV level? standard? In every situation? On every map?
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8017
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:22:00 -
[99] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly.
I'm glad I can be your everything, and I'm sorry you think painting the field with equipment and unlimited triage points is good.
We can't all be right
Read / Vid / Stream
|
Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
614
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:33:00 -
[100] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. The problem s that I can't. I'm using ADV weapon with Basic Armor plaes, Complex Shield Extenders, with all Proo EQ and I barely have enough CPU RIGHT NOW.
Under my proposal you'd get a lot more CPU than you already have (since it's being eaten up by all of your Proto Equipment). This rewards players who use logi primarily for support, but punishes people using them as slayers.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
|
|
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
460
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:34:00 -
[101] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:
Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly.
+1.
I'd actually just like to take a second from the rage and QQ and trolling (which I admittedly am sometimes guilty of myself, not just pointing fingers here) and say something nice: I have more respect for Molon Labe than 98% of the selfish tryhard a*hole collections we call corps in this game. It helps that I tend to agree with your opinons, of course, but I've squadded with and against you guys and after I hitchhiked into one of your squads you were nice enough to invite me to your teamsync channel so I could keep doing it whenever I wanted.
I still have nightmares about the OP and his freedom MD in the gallente production facility, of course, but I still need to try and arrange those STD suit-only battles he offered us. Also a class move.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
476
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:36:00 -
[102] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:
Whatever, dude, you're a "better" player than me. So what?; It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, because using the relatively small number of people with well above average gungame with proto SMG's at prof 5 who have been doing it for months because it fits their style of play is hardly generalizable to the rest of the population.
Just because your particular style of play doesn't get affected doesn't mean it's a good idea. Did any of you run sidearm only at, say, ADV level? standard? In every situation? On every map?
I never claimed to be a "better" player, just saying you might want to use the side-arms in a different way before you start making wrong statements.
Did I say it was a good idea?
Actually I only have the SMG up to ADV, and I had been using the STD for a long while.
Read my last line of the previous post again, thank you.
As I said we could discuss this endlessly, take it however you want. |
Nirwanda Vaughns
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
209
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:42:00 -
[103] - Quote
Oh and the arguement that us slayer logis don't ant teh change isn't true. i kinda miss being a 'true' logi but its hard to resist not going off and killign folk when i know i have the means to do so. my gal proto logi has 3x complex DM with a duvolle and i still have 4 proto equipment and 800 armor hp. i've been running an alt with a basic gal logi and just running uplink, injector and repper (all adv) and its been a nice change of pace. sure my kdr is in the crapper but i'm usually at top or at least in top 3 on most matches with WP.
if the logis wanna go killing them they should just use an assault like everyone else. i made a nice lil suit up with an adv gal assault running a gek, scanner, damage mods, couple armor plates and a complex repper and the survivability is quite impressive for a 60k suit. |
calvin b
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
1017
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:45:00 -
[104] - Quote
If team work is priority than the logi has nothing to worry. The assault will advance the line the heavy will surround the logi as the logi reps and resupplies the team. If you treat the logi like the secret service does the president you can now see how a logi could survive with a sidearm. Now here is where everyone would say well a core will fix that. I say maybe, but you missed the well placed sniper watching our every move and you will never get close enough.
Do not eat the yellow snow
|
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
90
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:46:00 -
[105] - Quote
calvin b wrote:If team work is priority than the logi has nothing to worry. The assault will advance the line the heavy will surround the logi as the logi reps and resupplies the team. If you treat the logi like the secret service does the president you can now see how a logi could survive with a sidearm. Now here is where everyone would say well a core will fix that. I say maybe, but you missed the well placed sniper watching our every move and you will never get close enough. too bad there isnt an assist leaderboard......lol
Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake
My motto regarding haters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
460
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:47:00 -
[106] - Quote
RKKR wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
Whatever, dude, you're a "better" player than me. So what?; It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, because using the relatively small number of people with well above average gungame with proto SMG's at prof 5 who have been doing it for months because it fits their style of play is hardly generalizable to the rest of the population.
Just because your particular style of play doesn't get affected doesn't mean it's a good idea. Did any of you run sidearm only at, say, ADV level? standard? In every situation? On every map?
I never claimed to be a "better" player, just saying you might want to use the side-arms in a different way before you start making wrong statements. Did I say it was a good idea? Actually I only have the SMG up to ADV, and I had been using the STD for a long while. Read my last line of the previous post again, thank you. As I said we could discuss this endlessly, take it however you want.
I phrased it improperly, most of that wasn't directed at you in particular, you are in fact the first person not to use the ishukone as an example of why this is a great idea.
The first line is of course, because, I'm sorry if I misunderstood but most of the people/trolls around here who make a statement like yours are basically trying to wave their epeen around. My apologies if that was not the case, this whole massive pile of nerftard sewage I've been subjected to the last few weeks is getting to me!
I run a fair amount of AV with an ADV sidearm, so I am familiar with using it as a primary anti-infantry weapon, and sure, it works great in CQC. But, an AR is basically a full auto sniper from 60-90m now, and most of these maps are pretty wide open. It's not that easy to keep yourself out of situations where some fool with a starter fit can cut you down pretty quickly.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1170
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:53:00 -
[107] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Evicer wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. With what? A std SMG with prof 0 and no damage mods? The current single-shot flaylock? Doubtful. The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto.
I've got Sidearm Logi fits with all four Sidearm variants we have. I've run every tier of Flaylock, Scrambler Pistol and SMG as well as Nova Knives upto Advanced. I've been running these since I had no more than a BPO for Scrambler Pistols/SMGs and Operation 1 for Flaylocks and Nova Knives so I know exactly what it is like without Proficiency and damage mods. Currently, most of my fits are rocking BPO weapons, though there are some ADV in there as well as a Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol ad Viziam Scrambler Pistol thrown in for good measure. Personally, if I am just goofing off, there is nothing more fun than running a nova knife logi (it's super effective at pissing off AR dumbasses who go straight back to the same place).
So yeah, I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me that my primary weapons "fail miserably if you're not using proto" csuse it just makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8017
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:55:00 -
[108] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly.
The equipment use issue is one that is universal, not just with Logi's, though after giving it more thought, perhaps it wouldn't be as bad if only logi's were able to stack active equipments. Being able to sit at a supply depot and swap out fits so you can drop an obscene amount of equipment is foolish and on top of that, tends to lag the **** out of the game (many people have already suggested limiting max hives and uplinks, which is simply a different approach to the same problem).
The unlimited WP for triage IS absurd though, especially considering how strong they are now. They added that cap in for a reason, why they removed it as they give reps a massive buff is confusing at best. I've seen people get 3000+ WP in a match for dropping some hives and uplinks, then just following around repping all game. I think that action should be rewarded for sure, but it just feels like it's being over rewarded.
Something has to give, as the logi is the wonder unit of DUST, and has been for a long time. And before you go taking everything everyone says as gospel, remember that this is General Discussion, where we have discussions about general things. You can't have a discussion if everyone kisses each others asses and agrees with everything everyone says.
Read / Vid / Stream
|
RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
477
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:58:00 -
[109] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:...
Yeah the nerf-threads are getting ridiculous lately, let's hope CCP can blow our minds with the new logi changes instead of making a quick fix that will expose other problems. |
Tectonic Fusion
601
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:59:00 -
[110] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Leave light weapon - take slots.
A logi should use cover (protection from his squad) to act.
If that is not the dynamic CCP wants then they should just drop all classes and make super logi suits for everyone to fit as they please.
Make it exactly like the assault except the Amarr because the will really suck if you take their ONE or 2 extra slots. Plus they lose most out of all the logistics, but only get a sidearm which takes up a bunch of space unless you use basic/advanced gear.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
|
|
|
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
91
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:03:00 -
[111] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:SirManBoy wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly. The equipment use issue is one that is universal, not just with Logi's, though after giving it more thought, perhaps it wouldn't be as bad if only logi's were able to stack active equipments. Being able to sit at a supply depot and swap out fits so you can drop an obscene amount of equipment is foolish and on top of that, tends to lag the **** out of the game (many people have already suggested limiting max hives and uplinks, which is simply a different approach to the same problem). The unlimited WP for triage IS absurd though, especially considering how strong they are now. They added that cap in for a reason, why they removed it as they give reps a massive buff is confusing at best. I've seen people get 3000+ WP in a match for dropping some hives and uplinks, then just following around repping all game. I think that action should be rewarded for sure, but it just feels like it's being over rewarded. Something has to give, as the logi is the wonder unit of DUST, and has been for a long time. And before you go taking everything everyone says as gospel, remember that this is General Discussion, where we have discussions about general things. You can't have a discussion if everyone kisses each others asses and agrees with everything everyone says.
In every picture I ever saw about DUSt that has the 4 suits the logi was in the front there is no need to continue to gain sp after you specialize into one class unless you decide to go LOGI. WHere you as a player can bring all your tools to the table.
Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake
My motto regarding haters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
|
Tectonic Fusion
601
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:03:00 -
[112] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:Oh and the arguement that us slayer logis don't ant teh change isn't true. i kinda miss being a 'true' logi but its hard to resist not going off and killign folk when i know i have the means to do so. my gal proto logi has 3x complex DM with a duvolle and i still have 4 proto equipment and 800 armor hp. i've been running an alt with a basic gal logi and just running uplink, injector and repper (all adv) and its been a nice change of pace. sure my kdr is in the crapper but i'm usually at top or at least in top 3 on most matches with WP.
if the logis wanna go killing them they should just use an assault like everyone else. i made a nice lil suit up with an adv gal assault running a gek, scanner, damage mods, couple armor plates and a complex repper and the survivability is quite impressive for a 60k suit.
My 30-50k suits are better xD
But I think they should instead have the same slots, but have the Amarr Logistics to be the same as the are now.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
|
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
462
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:04:00 -
[113] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
With what? A std SMG with prof 0 and no damage mods? The current single-shot flaylock? Doubtful. The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto.
I've got Sidearm Logi fits with all four Sidearm variants we have. I've run every tier of Flaylock, Scrambler Pistol and SMG as well as Nova Knives upto Advanced. I've been running these since I had no more than a BPO for Scrambler Pistols/SMGs and Operation 1 for Flaylocks and Nova Knives so I know exactly what it is like without Proficiency and damage mods. Currently, most of my fits are rocking BPO weapons, though there are some ADV in there as well as a Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol ad Viziam Scrambler Pistol thrown in for good measure. Personally, if I am just goofing off, there is nothing more fun than running a nova knife logi (it's super effective at pissing off AR dumbasses who go straight back to the same place). So yeah, I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me that my primary weapons "fail miserably if you're not using proto" csuse it just makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.
That's fine, I retract my statement as nobody before today has ever stated that they regularly run BPO sidearms when challenged the last 5 threads I've asked the question in. BTW, no way I'm ever trying nova nives on an amarr logi suit, thats for sure!
I still suspect you have some maxed fitting skills that make it easier for you to do it, but mostly, I stand by my point that there is only a minority of people here who have the skillz to rock sidearms only in a majority of situations on a majority of maps. They don't represent the general population and are not really an appropriate group on which to base sweeping changes to an entire class of suit across all 4 races.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
|
Zahle Undt
Unkn0wn Killers
Renegade Alliance
491
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:10:00 -
[114] - Quote
dust badger wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... This People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will.
Sorry but if you make it so I can't use 2 weapons I skilled to proficiency 5 in (MD & ScR) I am going to be pissed. Yeah my primary concern is repping, supplying, and reviving. However, to do those things sometimes you need to kill the fit that downed your teammate. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1170
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:20:00 -
[115] - Quote
calvin b wrote:If team work is priority than the logi has nothing to worry. The assault will advance the line the heavy will surround the logi as the logi reps and resupplies the team. If you treat the logi like the secret service does the president you can now see how a logi could survive with a sidearm. Now here is where everyone would say well a core will fix that. I say maybe, but you missed the well placed sniper watching our every move and you will never get close enough.
I hope that when we get Command Dropsuits, that they are essentially T2 logi suits.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Savage Mangler
DUST University
Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:29:00 -
[116] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Cosgar wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:[quote=DUST Fiend]
But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all.
You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal?? For the record, clerics can wear armor and have access to two handed maces. You may as well of written that in Chinese. I have no idea what you are talking about, lol
Off topic by a far margin, but cleric=logi is a good analogy. Back in 3.5 d&d a cleric could do everything damn near. Heavy armor, access to full progression spellcasting, including the delicious Power Word: Kill if you went War domain, as well as a buff spell that turned them into an equivalent level fighter. A party of 4 clerics could curbstomp a dungeon far easier than a rogue/fighter/wizard/cleric party could.
-YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED-
"Good, then they'll know who killed them."
Keep your knives sharp....and your wits sharper.
|
Logi Bro
Greatness Achieved Through Training
EoN.
2371
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:37:00 -
[117] - Quote
I wanted to make a long, multiple paragraph response, but meh. This has been debated, with reasonable arguments on both sides, but both sides think the other is QQ'ing simply because they believe in something different. It isn't QQ just because it isn't what you believe in, people. Let me just focus on one thing you said.
Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514.
Yeah, funny how that works, a large portion of people think this suit is overly-powerful, and an even larger portion of people are using it. Hint, hint.
Been Logistics since before it was cool.
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1170
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:38:00 -
[118] - Quote
Evicer wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Evicer wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. ive never even heard of you ....and what are you ranked
Never heard of you either....
IDK what I am ranked because IDGAF what an easily gamed leaderboard says. Obviously, I can tell that you're one of the monkeys who probably check the leaderboard after every match to find out how you should fell about yourself until the next match is over.
Serious question, I've heard that leaderboard monkeys cut themselves if the leaderboard says that their rank went down, do you?
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
96
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:48:00 -
[119] - Quote
Ive never seen you either.Please remember my name and when you see me the next time please use you pistol....I'll be slurping on your tears as you throw your DS3 up against the wall and it breaks into a thousand pieces...
Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake
My motto regarding haters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
|
Nirwanda Vaughns
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
209
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:50:00 -
[120] - Quote
calvin b wrote:If team work is priority than the logi has nothing to worry. The assault will advance the line the heavy will surround the logi as the logi reps and resupplies the team. If you treat the logi like the secret service does the president you can now see how a logi could survive with a sidearm. Now here is where everyone would say well a core will fix that. I say maybe, but you missed the well placed sniper watching our every move and you will never get close enough.
that sums up the logis role perfectly. |
|
|
Greasepalms
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
273
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
the way I see it, damage mods should be incompatible with logistics suits.
Of course for that, they'd need to expand on High slot module variety first. |
Toby Flenderson
research lab
110
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 22:54:00 -
[122] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Evicer wrote:Maximus Stryker wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. With what? A std SMG with prof 0 and no damage mods? The current single-shot flaylock? Doubtful. The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto.
Not true. I run a toxin smg as a primary very often and you don't need an Ishukone to destroy multiple people. If you you put even more skills into proficiency and sharpshooter then you don't need to run proto. It's even viable when you don't have the skills in it. I use it on my alts that don't have any skills in SMG and it's still very viable.
I'd be careful saying things about people not being good enough to use certain sidearms as primary weapons. There are usually exceptions especially in a thread about using them. Maybe try it out for yourself and see if you can do it. If you can't right away, try it some more. If you still can't, put some more SP into them until you get the proficiency/sharpshooter up. At this point you would be on an even playing field (as far as SP goes) as most of those using ARs and other primary weapons. If you still can't kill people as effectively as them then it's because you're using a sidearm against a primary. I think though at this point you will find that it is actually very possible to do well with a sidearm as your only line of defense.
If after all of this you still can't manage to convince yourself it's possible then just know that better people have tried and made it work.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2052
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:07:00 -
[123] - Quote
I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Nirwanda Vaughns
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
209
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:09:00 -
[124] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only.
one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry.
and further in the thread
CCP Logibro wrote:This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8016
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:10:00 -
[125] - Quote
2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms:
-Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field?
-How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2053
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:12:00 -
[126] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only.
one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry.
I think he meant the bonuses and such to make logis more support oriented (which I support). But the OP had linked a comment about sidearm only from This week in Dust.
If they do it, it will be burn Jita levels of rage
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2053
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:13:00 -
[127] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only.
one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry. and further in the thread CCP Logibro wrote:This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future.
Right but notice in the first post he refers to bonuses.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
billy bloodbath2
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:14:00 -
[128] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms:
-Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field?
-How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison?
I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1170
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:35:00 -
[129] - Quote
Evicer wrote:Ive never seen you either.Please remember my name and when you see me the next time please use you pistol....I'll be slurping on your tears as you throw your DS3 up against the wall and it breaks into a thousand pieces...
Isn't that cute, he thinks I'm BM_007
Lolno, it seems obvious that you are one of the Assport logi who'll ragequit if CCP makes Logi Sidearm-Only.
I mean, haven't you already cried for a full respec at the mere suggestion that CCP *might* follow through with Sidearm-Only Logi. I'll remember your name, if only so I can read all of the delicious tears when CCP takes away your do-it-all Assport Logi suit.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
143
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:37:00 -
[130] - Quote
billy bloodbath2 wrote:Cosgar wrote:2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms:
-Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field?
-How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms.
This
After ccp gives you babies a diaper change then what?Your going to start crying about how the other assaults racial bonuses are better than your assault.You cry about slayer but thats the Ars fault(your precious win button).
-Ar scout
-Ar heavy
-Ar logi
-Ar assault
All have pretty much the same killing potential because the Ar doesn't discriminate between suit.So please tell me what are these super logis killing you with?If its an Ar then STFU but even with sidearms only you babies will still get owned.NOW WHERE IS MY RESPEC!! |
|
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1170
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:39:00 -
[131] - Quote
Tek Hound wrote:billy bloodbath2 wrote:Cosgar wrote:2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms:
-Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field?
-How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. This After ccp gives you babies a diaper change then what?Your going to start crying about how the other assaults racial bonuses are better than your assault.You cry about slayer but thats the Ars fault(your precious win button). -Ar scout -Ar heavy -Ar logi -Ar assault All have pretty much the same killing potential because the Ar doesn't discriminate between suit.So please tell me what are these super logis killing you with?If its an Ar then STFU but even with sidearms only you babies will still get owned.NOW WHERE IS MY RESPEC!!
ROFL, so much rage, I love it....
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Tek Hound
Death In Xcess Corporation
143
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 00:16:00 -
[132] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Tek Hound wrote:billy bloodbath2 wrote:Cosgar wrote:2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms:
-Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field?
-How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. This After ccp gives you babies a diaper change then what?Your going to start crying about how the other assaults racial bonuses are better than your assault.You cry about slayer but thats the Ars fault(your precious win button). -Ar scout -Ar heavy -Ar logi -Ar assault All have pretty much the same killing potential because the Ar doesn't discriminate between suit.So please tell me what are these super logis killing you with?If its an Ar then STFU but even with sidearms only you babies will still get owned.NOW WHERE IS MY RESPEC!! ROFL, so much rage, I love it....
Not rage truth...my tongue is very sharp! |
SirManBoy
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
360
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 02:21:00 -
[133] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only.
one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry. and further in the thread CCP Logibro wrote:This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future. Right but notice in the first post he refers to bonuses.
The side arm only idea is a masturbatorial pipe dream that only the most ardent logi ***** envy enthusiasts want to see become a reality. It will not happen and we have no reason to believe that Logibro's recognition of a thread on the topic is anything other than an opportunity to make a statement about future changes to the bonus structure of logistics suits. Because that, you see, is actually a reasonable idea.
|
SirManBoy
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
360
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 02:32:00 -
[134] - Quote
Real life logis don't go sidearm only.
See Navy Corpsman:
http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg
Thor,
Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8027
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:06:00 -
[135] - Quote
billy bloodbath2 wrote:Cosgar wrote:2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms:
-Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field?
-How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms.
Doubt it'll ever happen. A lot of this comes from imbalanced core mechanics like TTK and armor > shield imbalance. Nobody seems to remember when the CaLogi was OP and people thought the GaLogi needed a buff while they knew the Amarr desperately needed one.
Assaults could use a bit more to make them more attractive before they even think about touching logis. Either give them stats to make them better than basic mediums or remove the basic medium and replace it with the assault.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2053
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:25:00 -
[136] - Quote
No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2053
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:28:00 -
[137] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Tek Hound wrote:billy bloodbath2 wrote:Cosgar wrote:2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms:
-Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field?
-How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. This After ccp gives you babies a diaper change then what?Your going to start crying about how the other assaults racial bonuses are better than your assault.You cry about slayer but thats the Ars fault(your precious win button). -Ar scout -Ar heavy -Ar logi -Ar assault All have pretty much the same killing potential because the Ar doesn't discriminate between suit.So please tell me what are these super logis killing you with?If its an Ar then STFU but even with sidearms only you babies will still get owned.NOW WHERE IS MY RESPEC!! ROFL, so much rage, I love it....
When I see you in battle I'm going to kill you, tea bag you, then drop a nanohive and an uplink on your fading corpse.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
SirManBoy
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
362
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 03:47:00 -
[138] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo.
LOL |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1170
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 11:42:00 -
[139] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo.
Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee.
Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2058
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 18:41:00 -
[140] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee. Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option.
When the weapons you are advocating have an effective range that's half the distance of the majority of weapons on the field, you may as we'll be stuck without a weapon. This is the reason why they don't stick real medics with sidearms only in combat.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
|
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1177
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 18:53:00 -
[141] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee. Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option. When the weapons you are advocating have an effective range that's half the distance of the majority of weapons on the field, you may as we'll be stuck without a weapon. This is the reason why they don't stick real medics with sidearms only in combat.
Video Game != Real Life
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2058
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 19:02:00 -
[142] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee. Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option. When the weapons you are advocating have an effective range that's half the distance of the majority of weapons on the field, you may as we'll be stuck without a weapon. This is the reason why they don't stick real medics with sidearms only in combat. Video Game != Real Life
You responded to the comment. I think it is relevant because it delves into simple common sense.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
163
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 19:07:00 -
[143] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant.
I stopped reading at #63.
However the quoted thinking is the way I think this should go.
The overall goal is to reduce the DPS of the logis - that's supposed to be why you wear an assault suit. This can be achieved by a good balance (shudder) of higher suit requirements for DPS-related items for the logis, and the inverse for equipment.
It needs to be done so that as pointed out several times here, a logi cannot out-DPS any other suit, with everything else (ie SP) equal.
Removing the light slot just reduces variety - that should be a choice made by a logi in order to truly excel at being the force multiplier. If you want to slay better, use the assault. |
Vesago Ghostcore
Rejected Clones
96
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 19:12:00 -
[144] - Quote
ER-Bullitt wrote:How about a clip size penalty for logi suits
Less ammo for the AR's, MD's, etc
Faster heat up for lazer weapons
I was thinking about a similar idea, but my idea was in regards to HP mods.
Personally I dont think that limiting weapons will do much about the issues, however if HP mods were a percentage improvement instead of a flat number of HP it might balance things out a bit. Heavies would benefit the most, and are the most limited in options, assaults would be next... and as for the scouts... sorry dude. A scout with 700 HP is broken.
Scouts would need a buff or 2 maybe an extra slot, or more base HP, but this is just an idea...
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2059
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 19:12:00 -
[145] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Vell0cet wrote:The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank.
Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. I stopped reading at #63. However the quoted thinking is the way I think this should go. The overall goal is to reduce the DPS of the logis - that's supposed to be why you wear an assault suit. This can be achieved by a good balance (shudder) of higher suit requirements for DPS-related items for the logis, and the inverse for equipment. It needs to be done so that as pointed out several times here, a logi cannot out-DPS any other suit, with everything else (ie SP) equal. Removing the light slot just reduces variety - that should be a choice made by a logi in order to truly excel at being the force multiplier. If you want to slay better, use the assault.
Agreed, logi suits shouldn't out DPS heavies or assaults
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2059
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 19:14:00 -
[146] - Quote
Vesago Ghostcore wrote:ER-Bullitt wrote:How about a clip size penalty for logi suits
Less ammo for the AR's, MD's, etc
Faster heat up for lazer weapons
I was thinking about a similar idea, but my idea was in regards to HP mods. Personally I dont think that limiting weapons will do much about the issues, however if HP mods were a percentage improvement instead of a flat number of HP it might balance things out a bit. Heavies would benefit the most, and are the most limited in options, assaults would be next... and as for the scouts... sorry dude. A scout with 700 HP is broken. Scouts would need a buff or 2 maybe an extra slot, or more base HP, but this is just an idea...
Anything in this game can die within a few seconds with the low time to kill rate.
DPS is the problem
Take away the DPS and the tank is irrelevant
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |