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DUST Fiend
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7993
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one....
Zing!
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DUST Fiend
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7994
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:DEZKA DIABLO wrote:It ll kill the game, that's how drastic it'll be.
Stupidest idea ever, like remove damage mods from logistic , give hmg more range, give scouts more speed, better scan percision an maybe a extra equipment slot or low for minhighfor gallente , give assaults a flux nade slot better CPU .
Like a logi can't use a 7 m shotgun give me a break, mine will rock 3 complex damage mods, ishikone smg, nano hives , core nades, an 3 types of remotes, bring on the qq And you'll be dead before you get within 50 meters of anybody to bring on tears.
To be fair, you're a support unit, so you should only be pushing the enemy with your allies. Part of it is that we don't have a whole lot of equipment yet, which makes logi's a bit more focused on what they can actually do to support.
To be 100% honest, I would trade every point from my HMG for SMG's instead, since they're basically just stronger HMG's that you can fit two of, on any suit. Seriously, they're insanely good. A logistics character should be focusing on supporting his allies through healing, buffing, and debuffing, not through killing. If killing is how you want to support, the Assault suits were made just for you.
Logi's should be about manipulating the battlefield to their teams advantage, providing intel, healing shields and armor, distributing ammo and giving out damage buffs or temporary resistances to allies. Stuff like that. Logibro said these changes are still a long ways out, this simply shows that they don't want the support class being the slayer class, that's all.
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DUST Fiend
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7995
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy?
Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind).
You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time.
Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_<
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DUST Fiend
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7998
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that).
As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here.
And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything?
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DUST Fiend
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7998
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Answer me this: in the army during deployments in hot zones are medics only equipped with side arms. If its in the U.S army operating proceedure ill accept it. If not why do it? Medics in the Army carry an M4 and they are on the front lines. But logis aren't medics. Perhaps that's why I don't see the problem with it. I was an infantryman and was deployed in combat for 28 1/2 months. One the higher end teams everyone knows how to do the others job. You don't have concrete roles. Someone would have grabbed the "logis" gear (not necessary because we respawn) and they would have rolled on.
Except DUST isn't real life, surprisingly.
I can't remember the last time I watched a healer equip a greatsword and just go ham on a dungeon
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DUST Fiend
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7998
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that).
As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here. And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything? I think the assault suits should be faster (the movement speeds between the logi and the assualt should be greater) and they should be able to hit harder. I have no idea what to do with the scout suits. The heavy is close, but need better maps for CQC.
Everything already hits too hard as it is, making things hit harder just makes things worse. What it boils down to is that support unit should never be doing more damage than the front line fighters, which we see ALL the time right now. You should have to choose, do all the cool support stuff, or kill all the doodz.
You shouldn't get both unless you're just a really talented player.
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DUST Fiend
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8002
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Nvm smgs are pretty good weapons. Full prof with damage mods makes them deadly. Increase range on them atleast.
I would trade in every single point I have in HMGs for SMGs instead, they are SO much better
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DUST Fiend
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8002
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that).
As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here. And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything? I think the assault suits should be faster (the movement speeds between the logi and the assualt should be greater) and they should be able to hit harder. I have no idea what to do with the scout suits. The heavy is close, but need better maps for CQC. Everything already hits too hard as it is, making things hit harder just makes things worse. What it boils down to is that support unit should never be doing more damage than the front line fighters, which we see ALL the time right now. You should have to choose, do all the cool support stuff, or kill all the doodz. You shouldn't get both unless you're just a really talented player. I don't see untalented players killing anybody in great numbers. You are talking about balancing the time to kill. I don't think nerfing logis solves that issue.
It does when you consider that the player who is raking in thousands of WP for dropping a couple pieces of equipment, who's highlighting enemies, reviving his allies and keeping them repped.....is killing just as quickly and efficiently as the guy whos only job is to kill people.
It's a matter of balancing out the suits so everyone is fulfilling a role, instead of one player filling multiple roles just because he chose one suit over the other.
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DUST Fiend
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:[quote=DUST Fiend]
But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all.
You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal??
Don't try to put words in my mouth, I was simply stating that the logi is a support character, and support characters typically do not out DPS the DPS characters.
We are not talking about the TTK issue as that is something that effects the entire player base. That is an entirely separate issue, and balancing the logi has no effect on that. If everyone is effected by the TTK change, then no one is.
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DUST Fiend
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8003
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... Zing!Also, to the above post, making logi equipment better while keeping their slaying power at or above the Assault's slaying power a fix does not make. You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty. I was quite disappointed to find out that the suit in fact can't run max equipment and be a kill machine like you would surely believe if you read the QQ on the forums. So, lets say you reduce the total CPU/PG by a small amount (I really should do the maths on this one of these days), but then give all the suits an equipment fitting reduction like the gallente suit. This way, someone who actually fills all their equipment slots with hign-end gear can still defend themselves (good luck going against the newly buffed AR or a RR with an SMG, btw) with lets say a GEK - that's usu what I run b/c the CRW-04 ScR uses too much CPU/PG because the equipment uses up less fitting cost. BUT, since you reduced the overall fitting power of the suit, if you don't use equipment, the suit becomes worse than it is now? Does it make more sense now? If not then I can't help you, you are just doomed to be a nerftard like every other idiot on these forums.
You might not be able to run max damage mods with that duvolle, but not only are you still running a duvolle, you've got a descent tank AND all the equipment you could hope for.
Does it make more sense now? If not then I can't help you, you are just doomed to be a noob who wants to do everything like every other idiot on these forums.
(see how flinging useless insults adds nothing to the discussion?)
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8003
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Posted - 2013.11.26 17:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty.
Not true. Amarr Logi Ak.0 3x Complex Damage mods Duvolle Submachine Gun Locus grenade 4x basic plate Wyrikomi Triage Hive Allotek Hive Allotek Stable Uplink Proto links and two repping hives, with three complex damage mods. If I had dropsuit engineering 5, I would be able to step up the grenade.
Thanks for showing the fit, I don't run logi or equipment so I don't really know what they're capable of fitting, just what I've seen in game and heard on the forums. That's still a pretty mean tank, and you have a built in complex armor rep.
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DUST Fiend
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8005
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Posted - 2013.11.26 17:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Zelorian Dexter snr wrote:dust badger wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... This People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will. Agree. I run Gallente logi and shock horror I run as a logi with my squad I carry an smg most the time as if they get in close its my last line of defence. Something needs to be done about the logi slayers who are abusing the role of the suit. We all know there will be a million threads calling for respecs when this happens. I will not be one as I play as support and will continue to do so In close ranges you can out DPS the most beastly heavies with a SMG and sidearm damage mods. The problem with this proposal and I outlined this in my OP is that the game is only going to get spread out more with the higher range weapons being introduced. It'll be a race to the objectives. You only have a few points in all the maps that are defendable at short ranges.
Why is your whole squad running sidearms, that's my question.
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DUST Fiend
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8005
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Posted - 2013.11.26 18:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:6 man squad (2 logis, 2 heavies, 2 assaults).
They have to take an objective to win the match. Despite not having any confidence in their blue dots to hold the objective they've fought to hold they will take the chance (even though there is ZERO incentive for them to try and win the match).
They push toward the point and start to receive fire. They've moved as far as they can with cover. The only two people in their squad that can provide covering fire are the assaults as the others are out of range.
-----At this point in the engagement do you start to see the flaws??? More than likely you end up with a 6 man assault squad for the flexibility needed to be effective.
To be fair, most heavies won't cross large areas of open space without an LAV or Dropship. I was thinking things more like streets, for crossing. You definitely don't waddle out in wide open spaces as is, Logi's would just share that trait, and be more likely to wait for transportation. In 1.7 dropships will actually be able to take a hit, so hopefully we see them become much more common as time goes on, entirely eliminating the weakness of shorter range by inserting troops where they need to be, when they need to be there.
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DUST Fiend
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Covert Intervention
8017
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Posted - 2013.11.26 21:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly.
I'm glad I can be your everything, and I'm sorry you think painting the field with equipment and unlimited triage points is good.
We can't all be right
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DUST Fiend
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8017
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Posted - 2013.11.26 21:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them....
My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job.
For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly.
The equipment use issue is one that is universal, not just with Logi's, though after giving it more thought, perhaps it wouldn't be as bad if only logi's were able to stack active equipments. Being able to sit at a supply depot and swap out fits so you can drop an obscene amount of equipment is foolish and on top of that, tends to lag the **** out of the game (many people have already suggested limiting max hives and uplinks, which is simply a different approach to the same problem).
The unlimited WP for triage IS absurd though, especially considering how strong they are now. They added that cap in for a reason, why they removed it as they give reps a massive buff is confusing at best. I've seen people get 3000+ WP in a match for dropping some hives and uplinks, then just following around repping all game. I think that action should be rewarded for sure, but it just feels like it's being over rewarded.
Something has to give, as the logi is the wonder unit of DUST, and has been for a long time. And before you go taking everything everyone says as gospel, remember that this is General Discussion, where we have discussions about general things. You can't have a discussion if everyone kisses each others asses and agrees with everything everyone says.
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