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Impact of Sidearm Only Logi on Battlefield and Player Retention

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Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2010	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:11:00 - [1] - Quote Two things here.... 1) Engagements are going to be pushed out even further with the new range weapons that are coming. This kills every suit but the assault suit if the logi can't carry a light weapon. If you disagree please try to explain what the role of the scout, heavy, and logi will be if everyone is standing 75m away from one another poking their heads from behind cover. Do people remember the end of beta when laser rifles were beast mode with the sharpshooter skill providing range increase? 2) I don't want to play a logi that is sitting 75-100m away from the action. I already yearn for the game to become CQC again. I'm fairly certain you haven't seen QQ yet if you take away the light weapon from logis. Add up all the QQ from the tankers and the BPO crackheads you still won't approach the rage from the logis. I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. Any change that has been made to the game will not even remotely be as dramatic as taking the light weapon from the logi suit. I don't think it's possible to anticipate how drastic it will be. Be careful what you wish for. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2012	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:19:00 - [2] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... I agree, there are a LOT. But changing this has big implications. I think they can change this up without taking the light weapon. For example changing bonuses Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2012	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:23:00 - [3] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: this game is dieing rapidly if ccp continues to make changes based of poor feedback from scrubs im done..im sick of trying to be reasonable and give logical arguments clearly the only things ccp takes with any grain of salt are qq's from players that havnt been in the game for more than a month I find it hard to believe that it's coming up now with the "time to kill" being as low as it is. I can be in a 1000HP suit and gets sliced down by a militia AR in a heartbeat. And I've never run a proto suit without at least ADV equipment. Usually all proto with an ADV scanner. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2012	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:24:00 - [4] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: It ll kill the game, that's how drastic it'll be. Stupidest idea ever, like remove damage mods from logistic , give hmg more range, give scouts more speed, better scan percision an maybe a extra equipment slot or low for minhighfor gallente , give assaults a flux nade slot better CPU . Like a logi can't use a 7 m shotgun give me a break, mine will rock 3 complex damage mods, ishikone smg, nano hives , core nades, an 3 types of remotes, bring on the qq And you'll be dead before you get within 50 meters of anybody to bring on tears. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2012	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:31:00 - [5] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... I want to touch on this some more. People chose the logi suits because they were clearly the best suits (the Amarr logi wasn't very good upon release and required a buff to get where the others are). This seems to be a problem that CCP is going to have to live with and work around. Anything as drastic as removing a light weapon will not have a positive outcome. We are almost 7 months out of Beta in a game that is on shaky ground, I hope they tread carefully here. First thing they need to do is change the name. I think the Eve players are the ones that started the crying because of the Logi ships in Eve being the way they are. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2014	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:39:00 - [6] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them.... My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job. For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2015	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:50:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: It ll kill the game, that's how drastic it'll be. Stupidest idea ever, like remove damage mods from logistic , give hmg more range, give scouts more speed, better scan percision an maybe a extra equipment slot or low for minhighfor gallente , give assaults a flux nade slot better CPU . Like a logi can't use a 7 m shotgun give me a break, mine will rock 3 complex damage mods, ishikone smg, nano hives , core nades, an 3 types of remotes, bring on the qq And you'll be dead before you get within 50 meters of anybody to bring on tears. To be fair, you're a support unit, so you should only be pushing the enemy with your allies. Part of it is that we don't have a whole lot of equipment yet, which makes logi's a bit more focused on what they can actually do to support. To be 100% honest, I would trade every point from my HMG for SMG's instead, since they're basically just stronger HMG's that you can fit two of, on any suit. Seriously, they're insanely good. A logistics character should be focusing on supporting his allies through healing, buffing, and debuffing, not through killing. If killing is how you want to support, the Assault suits were made just for you. Logi's should be about manipulating the battlefield to their teams advantage, providing intel, healing shields and armor, distributing ammo and giving out damage buffs or temporary resistances to allies. Stuff like that. Logibro said these changes are still a long ways out, this simply shows that they don't want the support class being the slayer class, that's all. I'm well aware of the greatness of the SMG. Range is the issue. The low time to kill and the extreme ranges of weapons create boring game play and a lot of camping. I could have a Six Kin SMG with prof 5 and a couple damage mods, but it might as well be a shovel at range. I think all of these support things are happening from logis in PC. Pubs are terrible, we cannot balance based off of solo playing scrubs going 0-17 in pub matches. If you try to set up a tactical squad and play within roles it goes to **** in 5 minutes in a pub. That logi killing you (not you, the QQer) 15 times is probably doing it because that's still the same suit he spawned in with thinking he might actually get a decent fight. I've found that since the armor and rep tool buff that I contribute much better as a support logi. In a good fight I have fun doing it. But in a pub where its a red line hunt, I'll hunt red dots just like everyone else. How do you balance a class when so many people are playing the game so badly? Honestly I can't remember a time when pubs were this bad, but that's another issue. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2015	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:52:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them.... My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job. For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< I don't even carry uplinks and nanohives anymore because of this. On my Gal logi I carry the Ishokone Gauged because of the 4th slot. I normally carry a scanner, rep tool, and needle. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2015	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:03:00 - [9] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Remove the Logi"s Tank? remove all high/ low power slots bam you now have a field medic That is incapable of pushing objectives, and relies on others to run assault/heavy to push Intern the Heavy/assault need the logi to rep/supply ammo You'll have to massively increase the ISK payouts according to WP gain if you do this. Of course the support player will have to push along with the players assaulting the point. But if you remove their tank the 70-100K of equipment they are using to support you will get expensive. This is the part of the argument I don't understand. Is there going to be some area of the battlefield where the logis will hang out? Are we going to be able to throw nanohives great distances? Will rep tools have 50m ranges? Maybe logis should be deployable equipment. We'll just take away supply depots and logis will be .5 meter a second slow moving supply depots. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2015	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:13:00 - [10] - Quote HYENAKILLER X wrote: Answer me this: in the army during deployments in hot zones are medics only equipped with side arms. If its in the U.S army operating proceedure ill accept it. If not why do it? Medics in the Army carry an M4 and they are on the front lines. But logis aren't medics. Perhaps that's why I don't see the problem with it. I was an infantryman and was deployed in combat for 28 1/2 months. One the higher end teams everyone knows how to do the others job. You don't have concrete roles. Someone would have grabbed the "logis" gear (not necessary because we respawn) and they would have rolled on. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2015	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:16:00 - [11] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that). As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here. And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything? I think the assault suits should be faster (the movement speeds between the logi and the assualt should be greater) and they should be able to hit harder. I have no idea what to do with the scout suits. The heavy is close, but need better maps for CQC. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2015	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:18:00 - [12] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: HYENAKILLER X wrote: Answer me this: in the army during deployments in hot zones are medics only equipped with side arms. If its in the U.S army operating proceedure ill accept it. If not why do it? Medics in the Army carry an M4 and they are on the front lines. But logis aren't medics. Perhaps that's why I don't see the problem with it. I was an infantryman and was deployed in combat for 28 1/2 months. One the higher end teams everyone knows how to do the others job. You don't have concrete roles. Someone would have grabbed the "logis" gear (not necessary because we respawn) and they would have rolled on. Except DUST isn't real life, surprisingly. I can't remember the last time I watched a healer equip a greatsword and just go ham on a dungeon lol, I have no idea what you are talking about I guess my point is that I don't see why everyone wants the logi to be a medic that can't kill. It doesn't appear that it was ever supposed to be that based on the suits that have been available in the year . Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2015	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:23:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: The beauty of the logi suit are the flexiblity and that's why I can run 3 different proto logi suits. I love to logi. I have all equipment proto and I can do EVERYTHING except speed hack (I'm working on that). As a matter of fact I love Dust 514 because of all of the things I can do in a logi suit. There are MANY, MANY players just like me. Trust me when I say that they should tread VERY carefully here. And you don't see the problem with one suit doing everything, or that most people use said suit because it does everything? I think the assault suits should be faster (the movement speeds between the logi and the assualt should be greater) and they should be able to hit harder. I have no idea what to do with the scout suits. The heavy is close, but need better maps for CQC. Everything already hits too hard as it is, making things hit harder just makes things worse. What it boils down to is that support unit should never be doing more damage than the front line fighters, which we see ALL the time right now. You should have to choose, do all the cool support stuff, or kill all the doodz. You shouldn't get both unless you're just a really talented player. I don't see untalented players killing anybody in great numbers. You are talking about balancing the time to kill. I don't think nerfing logis solves that issue. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2017	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:29:00 - [14] - Quote [quote=DUST Fiend] But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all. You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal?? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2021	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:56:00 - [15] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: [quote=DUST Fiend] But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all. You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal?? Don't try to put words in my mouth, I was simply stating that the logi is a support character, and support characters typically do not out DPS the DPS characters. We are not talking about the TTK issue as that is something that effects the entire player base. That is an entirely separate issue, and balancing the logi has no effect on that. If everyone is effected by the TTK change, then no one is. Agreed, we are actually on the same page here. I don't think that logis should be able to out DPS an assault player either and certainly not a heavy. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2021	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:57:00 - [16] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: [quote=DUST Fiend] But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all. You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal?? For the record, clerics can wear armor and have access to two handed maces. You may as well of written that in Chinese. I have no idea what you are talking about, lol Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2021	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:58:00 - [17] - Quote Justice Prevails wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Two things here.... 1) Engagements are going to be pushed out even further with the new range weapons that are coming. This kills every suit but the assault suit if the logi can't carry a light weapon. If you disagree please try to explain what the role of the scout, heavy, and logi will be if everyone is standing 75m away from one another poking their heads from behind cover. Do people remember the end of beta when laser rifles were beast mode with the sharpshooter skill providing range increase? 2) I don't want to play a logi that is sitting 75-100m away from the action. I already yearn for the game to become CQC again. I'm fairly certain you haven't seen QQ yet if you take away the light weapon from logis. Add up all the QQ from the tankers and the BPO crackheads you still won't approach the rage from the logis. I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. Any change that has been made to the game will not even remotely be as dramatic as taking the light weapon from the logi suit. I don't think it's possible to anticipate how drastic it will be. Be careful what you wish for. Good point! They are going to have to add more cover points to these maps. Probably should have been done long ago. Cover encourages tactics, not just point and shoot. Doing so would be at least a start to make the other suits viable. See here we go, actual discussion about the implications of such a change. Now we are talking! Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2021	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:02:00 - [18] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: These posts remind me of the great big speed nerf years back... Same kind of people complaining. Eve? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2021	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:03:00 - [19] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: "I propose we don't drop light weapons from the Logi suit, but instead make it harder for them to fit dmg mods"-Me "NOOOOOO STFU!"-All Logis I agree with this. I think limiting DPS is a good idea. If a sidearm could reach out to the ranges that engagements will certainly be will the increased ranges then I'd be okay with it. The range is the problem I have with the proposal. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2021	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:10:00 - [20] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: You miss the point entirely. If you adjust the suits so that there is an incentive/bonus to using equipment over other things then you inherently reduce the slaying power. You're delusional if you think that I can run ADV/PRO equipment in every slot (which I do) and also stack 3 damage mods and a Duvolle. It can't be done on my Amarr proto suit, I can tell you that with absolute certainty. Not true. Amarr Logi Ak.0 3x Complex Damage mods Duvolle Submachine Gun Locus grenade 4x basic plate Wyrikomi Triage Hive Allotek Hive Allotek Stable Uplink Proto links and two repping hives, with three complex damage mods. If I had dropsuit engineering 5, I would be able to step up the grenade. But you've ignored the racial bonus and your HP has suffured greatly to bring that DPS to the battlefield. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2021	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:11:00 - [21] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: "I propose we don't drop light weapons from the Logi suit, but instead make it harder for them to fit dmg mods"-Me "NOOOOOO STFU!"-All Logis Why? That's a very odd solution to the issue. People would just shield tank more, which is every bit as effective as a damage mod in most cases. Go right ahead and do that, I'd take that over losing a light weapon any day. Dual tanking FTW. I don't have a problem with a Logi killing, it's just that Logis can fit 2-3 dmg mods and still have enough tank to out do any other suit. There's no sacrifice besides a sidearm and a bit of speed. If you give them a higher stacking penalty then they will have to choose between dmg mods and shoes extenders(not a choice for the Gal Logi but whateves) These are the kinds of things we have to be talking about. The DPS is the issue. Lower it for logis and increase it for the other suits. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2021	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:14:00 - [22] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them.... My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job. For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Compact Nanos don't count. Also, what make you think they are actually tanking and not ganktanking with damage mods? TBH, I think a fundamental component of the problem is the lack of incentive to defend. Which leads to people running around trading objectives and killwhoring. You end up with a blob of AR Assport Logi and Heavies in LLAVs roaming from objective to objective. You are delving into a different territory. Lets have a different thread on providing incentives for people to fight in pubs. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2024	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:30:00 - [23] - Quote Zelorian Dexter snr wrote: dust badger wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... This People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will. Agree. I run Gallente logi and shock horror I run as a logi with my squad I carry an smg most the time as if they get in close its my last line of defence. Something needs to be done about the logi slayers who are abusing the role of the suit. We all know there will be a million threads calling for respecs when this happens. I will not be one as I play as support and will continue to do so In close ranges you can out DPS the most beastly heavies with a SMG and sidearm damage mods. The problem with this proposal and I outlined this in my OP is that the game is only going to get spread out more with the higher range weapons being introduced. It'll be a race to the objectives. You only have a few points in all the maps that are defendable at short ranges. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2029	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:00:00 - [24] - Quote [/quote] Why is your whole squad running sidearms, that's my question. [/quote] 6 man squad (2 logis, 2 heavies, 2 assaults). They have to take an objective to win the match. Despite not having any confidence in their blue dots to hold the objective they've fought to hold they will take the chance (even though there is ZERO incentive for them to try and win the match). They push toward the point and start to receive fire. They've moved as far as they can with cover. The only two people in their squad that can provide covering fire are the assaults as the others are out of range. -----At this point in the engagement do you start to see the flaws??? More than likely you end up with a 6 man assault squad for the flexibility needed to be effective. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2029	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:02:00 - [25] - Quote The Shadow Prince wrote: I agree that doing this will cause player count to drop even further. Instead of doing anything to the logi suit just buff assaults! enough with the nerfing.....you wanna make the assaults the primary SLAYER SUIT? Make the assault suit bonus 2% damage per level. The game will be closer to being balanced and you wont **** off >50% of the player base which will end up killing the game. AND take away the 10% damage buff from the logis. If you do this it provides the balance without screwing up the entire game. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2029	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:15:00 - [26] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: There might be some other ways they can start by tweaking any of the following options: Like a 2nd equipment slot for assault suits No grenades for logi's Maybe add a critical damage bonus for assault suits (+5% critical damage per level) Tweak movement speed Small buff to base HP on assault suits tweak shield recharge/armor recharge Longer reload times for logis, or faster reloads for assaults (I played a lot of Borderlands 2 and enjoyed the numerous ways you could tweak stats in that game) I would accept seeing any of the above considered for adjustment before making logi's sidearm only. AHHH, another thinking man, refreshing Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2035	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:34:00 - [27] - Quote 4447 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... I want to touch on this some more. People chose the logi suits because they were clearly the best suits (the Amarr logi wasn't very good upon release and required a buff to get where the others are). This seems to be a problem that CCP is going to have to live with and work around. Anything as drastic as removing a light weapon will not have a positive outcome. We are almost 7 months out of Beta in a game that is on shaky ground, I hope they tread carefully here. First thing they need to do is change the name. I think the Eve players are the ones that started the crying because of the Logi ships in Eve being the way they are. go away, i use a assault suit and I slay. What are you talking about? Honestly I've read my statement a couple of times and attempted to make my brain have the response you gave and I'm still getting nothing. Please use your words to elaborate. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2052	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:07:00 - [28] - Quote I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:12:00 - [29] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only. one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry. I think he meant the bonuses and such to make logis more support oriented (which I support). But the OP had linked a comment about sidearm only from This week in Dust. If they do it, it will be burn Jita levels of rage Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:13:00 - [30] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only. one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry. CCP LogiBro wrote: [FEEDBACK] Logistics without light weapons - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120712&find=unread Status: There is a plan to change Logistics skills and that will definitely change their role on the battlefield and prevent players from running as GÇ£slayersGÇ¥ in logi suits. and further in the thread CCP Logibro wrote: This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future. Right but notice in the first post he refers to bonuses. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2013.11.27 03:25:00 - [31] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2013.11.27 03:28:00 - [32] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Tek Hound wrote: billy bloodbath2 wrote: Cosgar wrote: 2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms: -Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field? -How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. This After ccp gives you babies a diaper change then what?Your going to start crying about how the other assaults racial bonuses are better than your assault.You cry about slayer but thats the Ars fault(your precious win button). -Ar scout -Ar heavy -Ar logi -Ar assault All have pretty much the same killing potential because the Ar doesn't discriminate between suit.So please tell me what are these super logis killing you with?If its an Ar then STFU but even with sidearms only you babies will still get owned.NOW WHERE IS MY RESPEC!! ROFL, so much rage, I love it.... When I see you in battle I'm going to kill you, tea bag you, then drop a nanohive and an uplink on your fading corpse. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2058	Posted - 2013.11.27 18:41:00 - [33] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee. Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option. When the weapons you are advocating have an effective range that's half the distance of the majority of weapons on the field, you may as we'll be stuck without a weapon. This is the reason why they don't stick real medics with sidearms only in combat. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2058	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:02:00 - [34] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee. Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option. When the weapons you are advocating have an effective range that's half the distance of the majority of weapons on the field, you may as we'll be stuck without a weapon. This is the reason why they don't stick real medics with sidearms only in combat. Video Game != Real Life You responded to the comment. I think it is relevant because it delves into simple common sense. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2059	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:12:00 - [35] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank. Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. I stopped reading at #63. However the quoted thinking is the way I think this should go. The overall goal is to reduce the DPS of the logis - that's supposed to be why you wear an assault suit. This can be achieved by a good balance (shudder) of higher suit requirements for DPS-related items for the logis, and the inverse for equipment. It needs to be done so that as pointed out several times here, a logi cannot out-DPS any other suit, with everything else (ie SP) equal. Removing the light slot just reduces variety - that should be a choice made by a logi in order to truly excel at being the force multiplier. If you want to slay better, use the assault. Agreed, logi suits shouldn't out DPS heavies or assaults Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2059	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:14:00 - [36] - Quote Vesago Ghostcore wrote: ER-Bullitt wrote: How about a clip size penalty for logi suits Less ammo for the AR's, MD's, etc Faster heat up for lazer weapons I was thinking about a similar idea, but my idea was in regards to HP mods. Personally I dont think that limiting weapons will do much about the issues, however if HP mods were a percentage improvement instead of a flat number of HP it might balance things out a bit. Heavies would benefit the most, and are the most limited in options, assaults would be next... and as for the scouts... sorry dude. A scout with 700 HP is broken. Scouts would need a buff or 2 maybe an extra slot, or more base HP, but this is just an idea... Anything in this game can die within a few seconds with the low time to kill rate. DPS is the problem Take away the DPS and the tank is irrelevant Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.

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