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Impact of Sidearm Only Logi on Battlefield and Player Retention

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Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 273	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:54:00 - [121] - Quote the way I see it, damage mods should be incompatible with logistics suits. Of course for that, they'd need to expand on High slot module variety first.
Toby Flenderson research lab 110	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:54:00 - [122] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Evicer wrote: Maximus Stryker wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank. Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. With what? A std SMG with prof 0 and no damage mods? The current single-shot flaylock? Doubtful. The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto. Not true. I run a toxin smg as a primary very often and you don't need an Ishukone to destroy multiple people. If you you put even more skills into proficiency and sharpshooter then you don't need to run proto. It's even viable when you don't have the skills in it. I use it on my alts that don't have any skills in SMG and it's still very viable. I'd be careful saying things about people not being good enough to use certain sidearms as primary weapons. There are usually exceptions especially in a thread about using them. Maybe try it out for yourself and see if you can do it. If you can't right away, try it some more. If you still can't, put some more SP into them until you get the proficiency/sharpshooter up. At this point you would be on an even playing field (as far as SP goes) as most of those using ARs and other primary weapons. If you still can't kill people as effectively as them then it's because you're using a sidearm against a primary. I think though at this point you will find that it is actually very possible to do well with a sidearm as your only line of defense. If after all of this you still can't manage to convince yourself it's possible then just know that better people have tried and made it work.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2052	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:07:00 - [123] - Quote I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Nirwanda Vaughns Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 209	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:09:00 - [124] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only. one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry. CCP LogiBro wrote: [FEEDBACK] Logistics without light weapons - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120712&find=unread Status: There is a plan to change Logistics skills and that will definitely change their role on the battlefield and prevent players from running as GÇ£slayersGÇ¥ in logi suits. and further in the thread CCP Logibro wrote: This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future.
Cosgar ParagonX 8016	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:10:00 - [125] - Quote 2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms: -Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field? -How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:12:00 - [126] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only. one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry. I think he meant the bonuses and such to make logis more support oriented (which I support). But the OP had linked a comment about sidearm only from This week in Dust. If they do it, it will be burn Jita levels of rage Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:13:00 - [127] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only. one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry. CCP LogiBro wrote: [FEEDBACK] Logistics without light weapons - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120712&find=unread Status: There is a plan to change Logistics skills and that will definitely change their role on the battlefield and prevent players from running as GÇ£slayersGÇ¥ in logi suits. and further in the thread CCP Logibro wrote: This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future. Right but notice in the first post he refers to bonuses. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
billy bloodbath2 Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:14:00 - [128] - Quote Cosgar wrote: 2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms: -Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field? -How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1170	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:35:00 - [129] - Quote Evicer wrote: Ive never seen you either.Please remember my name and when you see me the next time please use you pistol....I'll be slurping on your tears as you throw your DS3 up against the wall and it breaks into a thousand pieces... Isn't that cute, he thinks I'm BM_007 Lolno, it seems obvious that you are one of the Assport logi who'll ragequit if CCP makes Logi Sidearm-Only. I mean, haven't you already cried for a full respec at the mere suggestion that CCP might follow through with Sidearm-Only Logi. I'll remember your name, if only so I can read all of the delicious tears when CCP takes away your do-it-all Assport Logi suit. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Tek Hound Death In Xcess Corporation 143	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:37:00 - [130] - Quote billy bloodbath2 wrote: Cosgar wrote: 2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms: -Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field? -How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. This After ccp gives you babies a diaper change then what?Your going to start crying about how the other assaults racial bonuses are better than your assault.You cry about slayer but thats the Ars fault(your precious win button). -Ar scout -Ar heavy -Ar logi -Ar assault All have pretty much the same killing potential because the Ar doesn't discriminate between suit.So please tell me what are these super logis killing you with?If its an Ar then STFU but even with sidearms only you babies will still get owned.NOW WHERE IS MY RESPEC!!

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1170	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:39:00 - [131] - Quote Tek Hound wrote: billy bloodbath2 wrote: Cosgar wrote: 2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms: -Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field? -How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. This After ccp gives you babies a diaper change then what?Your going to start crying about how the other assaults racial bonuses are better than your assault.You cry about slayer but thats the Ars fault(your precious win button). -Ar scout -Ar heavy -Ar logi -Ar assault All have pretty much the same killing potential because the Ar doesn't discriminate between suit.So please tell me what are these super logis killing you with?If its an Ar then STFU but even with sidearms only you babies will still get owned.NOW WHERE IS MY RESPEC!! ROFL, so much rage, I love it.... Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Tek Hound Death In Xcess Corporation 143	Posted - 2013.11.27 00:16:00 - [132] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Tek Hound wrote: billy bloodbath2 wrote: Cosgar wrote: 2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms: -Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field? -How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. This After ccp gives you babies a diaper change then what?Your going to start crying about how the other assaults racial bonuses are better than your assault.You cry about slayer but thats the Ars fault(your precious win button). -Ar scout -Ar heavy -Ar logi -Ar assault All have pretty much the same killing potential because the Ar doesn't discriminate between suit.So please tell me what are these super logis killing you with?If its an Ar then STFU but even with sidearms only you babies will still get owned.NOW WHERE IS MY RESPEC!! ROFL, so much rage, I love it.... Not rage truth...my tongue is very sharp!
SirManBoy Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 360	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:21:00 - [133] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'll hold out hope that CCP can't be dumb enough to make logis sidearm only. one the devs posted in a thread earlier about it and said they're looking into it but it wont be for some time so not to worry. CCP LogiBro wrote: [FEEDBACK] Logistics without light weapons - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=120712&find=unread Status: There is a plan to change Logistics skills and that will definitely change their role on the battlefield and prevent players from running as GÇ£slayersGÇ¥ in logi suits. and further in the thread CCP Logibro wrote: This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future. Right but notice in the first post he refers to bonuses. The side arm only idea is a masturbatorial pipe dream that only the most ardent logi ***** envy enthusiasts want to see become a reality. It will not happen and we have no reason to believe that Logibro's recognition of a thread on the topic is anything other than an opportunity to make a statement about future changes to the bonus structure of logistics suits. Because that, you see, is actually a reasonable idea.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 360	Posted - 2013.11.27 02:32:00 - [134] - Quote Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted?
Cosgar ParagonX 8027	Posted - 2013.11.27 03:06:00 - [135] - Quote billy bloodbath2 wrote: Cosgar wrote: 2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms: -Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field? -How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. Doubt it'll ever happen. A lot of this comes from imbalanced core mechanics like TTK and armor > shield imbalance. Nobody seems to remember when the CaLogi was OP and people thought the GaLogi needed a buff while they knew the Amarr desperately needed one. Assaults could use a bit more to make them more attractive before they even think about touching logis. Either give them stats to make them better than basic mediums or remove the basic medium and replace it with the assault. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2013.11.27 03:25:00 - [136] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2053	Posted - 2013.11.27 03:28:00 - [137] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Tek Hound wrote: billy bloodbath2 wrote: Cosgar wrote: 2 things for the asshats crying for logis to be stuck with sidearms: -Are you bad enough to unleash that many Ishukone SMGs and Carthium pistols on the field? -How long will it be before everyone wants assaults nerfed when they become the best suit in the game purely by comparison? I don't think I will continue this game without a full respec if logis are reduced to side arms. This After ccp gives you babies a diaper change then what?Your going to start crying about how the other assaults racial bonuses are better than your assault.You cry about slayer but thats the Ars fault(your precious win button). -Ar scout -Ar heavy -Ar logi -Ar assault All have pretty much the same killing potential because the Ar doesn't discriminate between suit.So please tell me what are these super logis killing you with?If its an Ar then STFU but even with sidearms only you babies will still get owned.NOW WHERE IS MY RESPEC!! ROFL, so much rage, I love it.... When I see you in battle I'm going to kill you, tea bag you, then drop a nanohive and an uplink on your fading corpse. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
SirManBoy Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 362	Posted - 2013.11.27 03:47:00 - [138] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. LOL
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1170	Posted - 2013.11.27 11:42:00 - [139] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee. Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2058	Posted - 2013.11.27 18:41:00 - [140] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee. Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option. When the weapons you are advocating have an effective range that's half the distance of the majority of weapons on the field, you may as we'll be stuck without a weapon. This is the reason why they don't stick real medics with sidearms only in combat. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1177	Posted - 2013.11.27 18:53:00 - [141] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee. Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option. When the weapons you are advocating have an effective range that's half the distance of the majority of weapons on the field, you may as we'll be stuck without a weapon. This is the reason why they don't stick real medics with sidearms only in combat. Video Game != Real Life Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2058	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:02:00 - [142] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: SirManBoy wrote: Real life logis don't go sidearm only. See Navy Corpsman: http://www.neptunuslex.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/corpsman3.jpg Thor, Are U.S. Army field medics similarly outfitted? No dude, in the army medics shake needles at the enemy and hide behind the assault guys holding ammo. Sounds like you're advocating for weaponless logi, I at least want them to be able to defend themselves with more than just melee. Also, your description of what you'll do if you see me in a battle leads me to believe that you've got a lot of skin in being a slayer logi, it'll be so nice when slayer logi is no longer a viable option. When the weapons you are advocating have an effective range that's half the distance of the majority of weapons on the field, you may as we'll be stuck without a weapon. This is the reason why they don't stick real medics with sidearms only in combat. Video Game != Real Life You responded to the comment. I think it is relevant because it delves into simple common sense. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 163	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:07:00 - [143] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank. Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. I stopped reading at #63. However the quoted thinking is the way I think this should go. The overall goal is to reduce the DPS of the logis - that's supposed to be why you wear an assault suit. This can be achieved by a good balance (shudder) of higher suit requirements for DPS-related items for the logis, and the inverse for equipment. It needs to be done so that as pointed out several times here, a logi cannot out-DPS any other suit, with everything else (ie SP) equal. Removing the light slot just reduces variety - that should be a choice made by a logi in order to truly excel at being the force multiplier. If you want to slay better, use the assault.
Vesago Ghostcore Rejected Clones 96	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:12:00 - [144] - Quote ER-Bullitt wrote: How about a clip size penalty for logi suits Less ammo for the AR's, MD's, etc Faster heat up for lazer weapons I was thinking about a similar idea, but my idea was in regards to HP mods. Personally I dont think that limiting weapons will do much about the issues, however if HP mods were a percentage improvement instead of a flat number of HP it might balance things out a bit. Heavies would benefit the most, and are the most limited in options, assaults would be next... and as for the scouts... sorry dude. A scout with 700 HP is broken. Scouts would need a buff or 2 maybe an extra slot, or more base HP, but this is just an idea...
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2059	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:12:00 - [145] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank. Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. I stopped reading at #63. However the quoted thinking is the way I think this should go. The overall goal is to reduce the DPS of the logis - that's supposed to be why you wear an assault suit. This can be achieved by a good balance (shudder) of higher suit requirements for DPS-related items for the logis, and the inverse for equipment. It needs to be done so that as pointed out several times here, a logi cannot out-DPS any other suit, with everything else (ie SP) equal. Removing the light slot just reduces variety - that should be a choice made by a logi in order to truly excel at being the force multiplier. If you want to slay better, use the assault. Agreed, logi suits shouldn't out DPS heavies or assaults Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 2059	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:14:00 - [146] - Quote Vesago Ghostcore wrote: ER-Bullitt wrote: How about a clip size penalty for logi suits Less ammo for the AR's, MD's, etc Faster heat up for lazer weapons I was thinking about a similar idea, but my idea was in regards to HP mods. Personally I dont think that limiting weapons will do much about the issues, however if HP mods were a percentage improvement instead of a flat number of HP it might balance things out a bit. Heavies would benefit the most, and are the most limited in options, assaults would be next... and as for the scouts... sorry dude. A scout with 700 HP is broken. Scouts would need a buff or 2 maybe an extra slot, or more base HP, but this is just an idea... Anything in this game can die within a few seconds with the low time to kill rate. DPS is the problem Take away the DPS and the tank is irrelevant Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.


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