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Impact of Sidearm Only Logi on Battlefield and Player Retention

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Nirwanda Vaughns Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 208	Posted - 2013.11.26 20:41:00 - [91] - Quote Personally if they drop to sidearm only we should get an extra equipment slot (with increased CPU/PG) and also increase the base movement and sprint speed. I'd quite like to see logis with a sidearm only. i think it would make an interesting change in the playstyle. plus assault guys are supposed to do the killing while we keep em alive. Perhaps CCP should bring back the Type II/B-Type/Vk.1 suits and have the type II assaults with an extra equipment slot with similar shield/armor hp to the logis so the ones who want something similar to the assault logi's, can do the Type II varients were great in chromo and filled a gap between the insane sp jumps between lv4 and 5 and could help keep players interested while skilling up.
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 87	Posted - 2013.11.26 20:43:00 - [92] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: never heard of you either People who like being logis will be fine, the only people upset are the ones who like slaying in a logi suit so they still have equipment slots. ishucone SMG kicks butt up close, if you get close to me, you will likely die. good luck getting close to weapons that will be hitting you at 100 m Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 459	Posted - 2013.11.26 20:49:00 - [93] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: [quote=Evicer][quote=Maximus Stryker]The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank. Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. Quote: People who like being logis will be fine, the only people upset are the ones who like slaying in a logi suit so they still have equipment slots. ishucone SMG kicks butt up close, if you get close to me, you will likely die. It does indeed. Pretty sure new players thinking about going into logistics won't have access to them, however. And just to make things clear, my KDR sucks and my K/WP ratio is like 150 - kills account for only 1/3 of my career WP. Every one of my suits uses all equip slots and I can count on one hand the number of tines I've used a duvolle. I'm not even close to a murderlogi and I'm telling you this idea is shortsighted and will destroy the logistics class. There are far better ways to change the balance between assault and logi suits. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Zaria Min Deir Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 324	Posted - 2013.11.26 20:50:00 - [94] - Quote dust badger wrote: People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will. Sorry to say, but you have no idea what you're talking about. First off, Logi =/= nothing but walking remote repper and nanite injector. Logistics is a role that is hell of a lot more varied than that, that is the reason the "pure" logis get 4 equipment slots and even the "combat" logis get 3. There are other equipment that a logi can use and other things a logi can do to support the team, and I know I've done my job as a logi even after games where I didn't have a nanite injector or a rep tool equipped. Take the minmatar logi suit, it's inbuilt bonuses (when compared to other logi suits) are hacking speed and speed. That is why I chose the suit, and still continue to use it and love it, even though CCP has made speed tanking more and more irrelevant recently (all the poor scouts, I feel your pain). Sure I can run with a squad providing ammo and reps when needed, but that is most certainly not the only thing I do, and if it was the only thing I was able to do, I would have quit this game ages ago. For instance, I can be a 100% support logi and still get uplinks behind enemy lines and in flanking positions while the "slayers" of my team are engaging the enemy head on, I can provide my team intel on enemy positions, I can sneak in and get a speed hack off on an objective... The fits I run to do these things are flimsy as hell, I certainly can't spare the fitting to use damage mods, I barely have any HP as it is. So you can shove your "massive tank and high DPS" argument. My main defense is the fact that after sinking 20+ million skillpoints into my suit, all the relevant suit upgrades (things like hacking and biotics over HP there as well) and proto equipment across the board, I could then finally spare the SP to skill fairly highly into my main weapon (my only weapon, originally, as my suit has no sidearm slot, it really only makes sense to spec into a light weapon first, yes?) You honestly think I shouldn't care about crap like this? Because if I was a true logi I wouldn't mind being almost completely defenseless against every random newberry in a frontline assault fit that just happens to be outside the (not exactly amazing) optimal range of an SMG? And not care about always losing my 200+k fits full of proto equipment there to service all the oh so important assault players, if those assault players fail to protect me as I hide behind my squad with my rep tool out, as you seem to think is the only thing a logi should do? Logi suits have had a light weapon slot for all this time, I don't remember assault players crying about logi suits being OP in Chromosome, so maybe, just maybe, the weapon slot is not the problem here, people? P.S. I know there are plenty of logis out there who totally rock an SMG, that's not the point, the point is players should have the ability to choose their weapon based on the range of engangement they think they will most likely find themselves in, that is the point of having a variety of weapons to choose from. If you are always up close and personal, yes, frankly, the SMG is beastly, but that shouldn't be the only playstyle available to a whole class of players. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 476	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:05:00 - [95] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: RKKR wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto. Wrong, you quoted some dude in your signature, maybe you have to use his wisdom when in the battlefield when using a sidearm only. Sure, I'll just sit behind cover all battle in my slow Amarr suit while the guy with the RR or newly range-buffed AR shoots at me from 100m away with pinpoint accuracy. Meanwhile everyone is running out of ammo and can't get reps or spawn. Besides, didn't you just say you thought it would be a bad decision on CCPs part? I don't get it. I did it with my slow-ass gallente back in the days when armor still sucked. Your situation is the fault of your teammates and your bad positioning, but we can discuss this endless, take it however you want. Yes, because changing the logi-suit isn't going to solve the problems of this game and yes I would rather have my logi not restricted to side-arms only, but that doesn't mean that the quoted text isn't untrue.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 999	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:08:00 - [96] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Evicer wrote: Maximus Stryker wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank. Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones *** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. By choice. Nobody wants to be forced and restricted into being able to use only 4 weapons. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]** The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
SirManBoy Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 359	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:11:00 - [97] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them.... My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job. For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 460	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:21:00 - [98] - Quote RKKR wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: RKKR wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto. Wrong, you quoted some dude in your signature, maybe you have to use his wisdom when in the battlefield when using a sidearm only. Sure, I'll just sit behind cover all battle in my slow Amarr suit while the guy with the RR or newly range-buffed AR shoots at me from 100m away with pinpoint accuracy. Meanwhile everyone is running out of ammo and can't get reps or spawn. Besides, didn't you just say you thought it would be a bad decision on CCPs part? I don't get it. I did it with my slow-ass gallente back in the days when armor still sucked. Your situation is the fault of your teammates and your bad positioning, but we can discuss this endless, take it however you want. Yes, because changing the logi-suit isn't going to solve the problems of this game and yes I would rather have my logi not restricted to side-arms only, but that doesn't mean that the quoted text isn't untrue. Whatever, dude, you're a "better" player than me. So what?; It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, because using the relatively small number of people with well above average gungame with proto SMG's at prof 5 who have been doing it for months because it fits their style of play is hardly generalizable to the rest of the population. Just because your particular style of play doesn't get affected doesn't mean it's a good idea. Did any of you run sidearm only at, say, ADV level? standard? In every situation? On every map? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8017	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:22:00 - [99] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them.... My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job. For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly. I'm glad I can be your everything, and I'm sorry you think painting the field with equipment and unlimited triage points is good. We can't all be right Read / Vid / Stream
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 614	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:33:00 - [100] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank. Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. The problem s that I can't. I'm using ADV weapon with Basic Armor plaes, Complex Shield Extenders, with all Proo EQ and I barely have enough CPU RIGHT NOW. Under my proposal you'd get a lot more CPU than you already have (since it's being eaten up by all of your Proto Equipment). This rewards players who use logi primarily for support, but punishes people using them as slayers. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 460	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:34:00 - [101] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly. +1. I'd actually just like to take a second from the rage and QQ and trolling (which I admittedly am sometimes guilty of myself, not just pointing fingers here) and say something nice: I have more respect for Molon Labe than 98% of the selfish tryhard ahole collections we call corps in this game. It helps that I tend to agree with your opinons, of course, but I've squadded with and against you guys and after I hitchhiked into one of your squads you were nice enough to invite me to your teamsync channel so I could keep doing it whenever I wanted. I still have nightmares about the OP and his freedom MD in the gallente production facility, of course, but I still need to try and arrange those STD suit-only battles he offered us. Also a class move. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"* -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 476	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:36:00 - [102] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Whatever, dude, you're a "better" player than me. So what?; It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, because using the relatively small number of people with well above average gungame with proto SMG's at prof 5 who have been doing it for months because it fits their style of play is hardly generalizable to the rest of the population. Just because your particular style of play doesn't get affected doesn't mean it's a good idea. Did any of you run sidearm only at, say, ADV level? standard? In every situation? On every map? I never claimed to be a "better" player, just saying you might want to use the side-arms in a different way before you start making wrong statements. Did I say it was a good idea? Actually I only have the SMG up to ADV, and I had been using the STD for a long while. Read my last line of the previous post again, thank you. As I said we could discuss this endlessly, take it however you want.
Nirwanda Vaughns Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 209	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:42:00 - [103] - Quote Oh and the arguement that us slayer logis don't ant teh change isn't true. i kinda miss being a 'true' logi but its hard to resist not going off and killign folk when i know i have the means to do so. my gal proto logi has 3x complex DM with a duvolle and i still have 4 proto equipment and 800 armor hp. i've been running an alt with a basic gal logi and just running uplink, injector and repper (all adv) and its been a nice change of pace. sure my kdr is in the crapper but i'm usually at top or at least in top 3 on most matches with WP. if the logis wanna go killing them they should just use an assault like everyone else. i made a nice lil suit up with an adv gal assault running a gek, scanner, damage mods, couple armor plates and a complex repper and the survivability is quite impressive for a 60k suit.
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1017	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:45:00 - [104] - Quote If team work is priority than the logi has nothing to worry. The assault will advance the line the heavy will surround the logi as the logi reps and resupplies the team. If you treat the logi like the secret service does the president you can now see how a logi could survive with a sidearm. Now here is where everyone would say well a core will fix that. I say maybe, but you missed the well placed sniper watching our every move and you will never get close enough. Do not eat the yellow snow
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 90	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:46:00 - [105] - Quote calvin b wrote: If team work is priority than the logi has nothing to worry. The assault will advance the line the heavy will surround the logi as the logi reps and resupplies the team. If you treat the logi like the secret service does the president you can now see how a logi could survive with a sidearm. Now here is where everyone would say well a core will fix that. I say maybe, but you missed the well placed sniper watching our every move and you will never get close enough. too bad there isnt an assist leaderboard......lol Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 460	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:47:00 - [106] - Quote RKKR wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Whatever, dude, you're a "better" player than me. So what?; It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, because using the relatively small number of people with well above average gungame with proto SMG's at prof 5 who have been doing it for months because it fits their style of play is hardly generalizable to the rest of the population. Just because your particular style of play doesn't get affected doesn't mean it's a good idea. Did any of you run sidearm only at, say, ADV level? standard? In every situation? On every map? I never claimed to be a "better" player, just saying you might want to use the side-arms in a different way before you start making wrong statements. Did I say it was a good idea? Actually I only have the SMG up to ADV, and I had been using the STD for a long while. Read my last line of the previous post again, thank you. As I said we could discuss this endlessly, take it however you want. I phrased it improperly, most of that wasn't directed at you in particular, you are in fact the first person not to use the ishukone as an example of why this is a great idea. The first line is of course, because, I'm sorry if I misunderstood but most of the people/trolls around here who make a statement like yours are basically trying to wave their epeen around. My apologies if that was not the case, this whole massive pile of nerftard sewage I've been subjected to the last few weeks is getting to me! I run a fair amount of AV with an ADV sidearm, so I am familiar with using it as a primary anti-infantry weapon, and sure, it works great in CQC. But, an AR is basically a full auto sniper from 60-90m now, and most of these maps are pretty wide open. It's not that easy to keep yourself out of situations where some fool with a starter fit can cut you down pretty quickly. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1170	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:53:00 - [107] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Evicer wrote: Maximus Stryker wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank. Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. With what? A std SMG with prof 0 and no damage mods? The current single-shot flaylock? Doubtful. The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto. I've got Sidearm Logi fits with all four Sidearm variants we have. I've run every tier of Flaylock, Scrambler Pistol and SMG as well as Nova Knives upto Advanced. I've been running these since I had no more than a BPO for Scrambler Pistols/SMGs and Operation 1 for Flaylocks and Nova Knives so I know exactly what it is like without Proficiency and damage mods. Currently, most of my fits are rocking BPO weapons, though there are some ADV in there as well as a Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol ad Viziam Scrambler Pistol thrown in for good measure. Personally, if I am just goofing off, there is nothing more fun than running a nova knife logi (it's super effective at pissing off AR dumbasses who go straight back to the same place). So yeah, I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me that my primary weapons "fail miserably if you're not using proto" csuse it just makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8017	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:55:00 - [108] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them.... My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job. For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly. The equipment use issue is one that is universal, not just with Logi's, though after giving it more thought, perhaps it wouldn't be as bad if only logi's were able to stack active equipments. Being able to sit at a supply depot and swap out fits so you can drop an obscene amount of equipment is foolish and on top of that, tends to lag the **** out of the game (many people have already suggested limiting max hives and uplinks, which is simply a different approach to the same problem). The unlimited WP for triage IS absurd though, especially considering how strong they are now. They added that cap in for a reason, why they removed it as they give reps a massive buff is confusing at best. I've seen people get 3000+ WP in a match for dropping some hives and uplinks, then just following around repping all game. I think that action should be rewarded for sure, but it just feels like it's being over rewarded. Something has to give, as the logi is the wonder unit of DUST, and has been for a long time. And before you go taking everything everyone says as gospel, remember that this is General Discussion, where we have discussions about general things. You can't have a discussion if everyone kisses each others asses and agrees with everything everyone says. Read / Vid / Stream
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 477	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:58:00 - [109] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: ... Yeah the nerf-threads are getting ridiculous lately, let's hope CCP can blow our minds with the new logi changes instead of making a quick fix that will expose other problems.
Tectonic Fusion 601	Posted - 2013.11.26 21:59:00 - [110] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Leave light weapon - take slots. A logi should use cover (protection from his squad) to act. If that is not the dynamic CCP wants then they should just drop all classes and make super logi suits for everyone to fit as they please. Make it exactly like the assault except the Amarr because the will really suck if you take their ONE or 2 extra slots. Plus they lose most out of all the logistics, but only get a sidearm which takes up a bunch of space unless you use basic/advanced gear. Solo Player Squad status: Locked

Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 91	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:03:00 - [111] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: SirManBoy wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: If the Assport Logi want to run home to mama and cry cause their do-it-all suit gets tweaked into better fulfilling its intended support role and can't be used for full frontal assault then let them.... My Wiyrkomi Injectors run on tears, thank you for helping me do my job. For the record, I wouldn't mind a Sidearm-Only restriction, though I am more in favor of adding the Logi Weapon category (which would amount to every Light Weapon except the AR and its variants) between Light Weapons and Sidearm. I am confidant that would suffice to solve the Assport Logi problem rather quickly. I honestly don't know any logis that don't carry equipment. Why wouldn't you? For 30-100 more HP you'd sacrifice the awesomeness of equipment? I think there is a fine line between assault logi and logi that is just really good at the game. I see guys all the time go 20-2 with 4000 WP. I'm no mathematician but I think that is 1/4 of the WP from killing and 3/4 from support. Should he/she commit suicide 8 times a game so that the scrubs are happy? Well that in itself is part of the problem, considering you can go far above your maximum equipment at any given time by just laying out different versions of each thing (uplinks and nanohives come to mind). You should only be able to have as many of one kind of equipment active equal to the highest maximum allowed (god I can never phrase that easily) Basically, if you have 3 different uplinks, two that allow for 2 to be placed, and one that allows for 3, you could never place more than 3 uplinks at any given time. Painting the field with equipment is obnoxious, and leads to players earning insane amounts of WP for virtually no effort on their part. Also, bring back the armor rep WP cap, it's just obnoxious right now >_< Limit equipment use and WP? You are everything I hate about this community. Truly. The equipment use issue is one that is universal, not just with Logi's, though after giving it more thought, perhaps it wouldn't be as bad if only logi's were able to stack active equipments. Being able to sit at a supply depot and swap out fits so you can drop an obscene amount of equipment is foolish and on top of that, tends to lag the **** out of the game (many people have already suggested limiting max hives and uplinks, which is simply a different approach to the same problem). The unlimited WP for triage IS absurd though, especially considering how strong they are now. They added that cap in for a reason, why they removed it as they give reps a massive buff is confusing at best. I've seen people get 3000+ WP in a match for dropping some hives and uplinks, then just following around repping all game. I think that action should be rewarded for sure, but it just feels like it's being over rewarded. Something has to give, as the logi is the wonder unit of DUST, and has been for a long time. And before you go taking everything everyone says as gospel, remember that this is General Discussion, where we have discussions about general things. You can't have a discussion if everyone kisses each others asses and agrees with everything everyone says. In every picture I ever saw about DUSt that has the 4 suits the logi was in the front there is no need to continue to gain sp after you specialize into one class unless you decide to go LOGI. WHere you as a player can bring all your tools to the table. Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
Tectonic Fusion 601	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:03:00 - [112] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Oh and the arguement that us slayer logis don't ant teh change isn't true. i kinda miss being a 'true' logi but its hard to resist not going off and killign folk when i know i have the means to do so. my gal proto logi has 3x complex DM with a duvolle and i still have 4 proto equipment and 800 armor hp. i've been running an alt with a basic gal logi and just running uplink, injector and repper (all adv) and its been a nice change of pace. sure my kdr is in the crapper but i'm usually at top or at least in top 3 on most matches with WP. if the logis wanna go killing them they should just use an assault like everyone else. i made a nice lil suit up with an adv gal assault running a gek, scanner, damage mods, couple armor plates and a complex repper and the survivability is quite impressive for a 60k suit. My 30-50k suits are better xD But I think they should instead have the same slots, but have the Amarr Logistics to be the same as the are now. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 462	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:04:00 - [113] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: With what? A std SMG with prof 0 and no damage mods? The current single-shot flaylock? Doubtful. The "sidearm as viable main weapon" argument fails miserably if you are not using proto. I've got Sidearm Logi fits with all four Sidearm variants we have. I've run every tier of Flaylock, Scrambler Pistol and SMG as well as Nova Knives upto Advanced. I've been running these since I had no more than a BPO for Scrambler Pistols/SMGs and Operation 1 for Flaylocks and Nova Knives so I know exactly what it is like without Proficiency and damage mods. Currently, most of my fits are rocking BPO weapons, though there are some ADV in there as well as a Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol ad Viziam Scrambler Pistol thrown in for good measure. Personally, if I am just goofing off, there is nothing more fun than running a nova knife logi (it's super effective at pissing off AR dumbasses who go straight back to the same place). So yeah, I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me that my primary weapons "fail miserably if you're not using proto" csuse it just makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about. That's fine, I retract my statement as nobody before today has ever stated that they regularly run BPO sidearms when challenged the last 5 threads I've asked the question in. BTW, no way I'm ever trying nova nives on an amarr logi suit, thats for sure! I still suspect you have some maxed fitting skills that make it easier for you to do it, but mostly, I stand by my point that there is only a minority of people here who have the skillz to rock sidearms only in a majority of situations on a majority of maps. They don't represent the general population and are not really an appropriate group on which to base sweeping changes to an entire class of suit across all 4 races. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Zahle Undt Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 491	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:10:00 - [114] - Quote dust badger wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. So true, because every Assault is using one.... This People who genuinely want to heal people and revive don't care about about this, the people that want a massive tank, high DPS and lots of equipment slots will. Sorry but if you make it so I can't use 2 weapons I skilled to proficiency 5 in (MD & ScR) I am going to be pissed. Yeah my primary concern is repping, supplying, and reviving. However, to do those things sometimes you need to kill the fit that downed your teammate.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1170	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:20:00 - [115] - Quote calvin b wrote: If team work is priority than the logi has nothing to worry. The assault will advance the line the heavy will surround the logi as the logi reps and resupplies the team. If you treat the logi like the secret service does the president you can now see how a logi could survive with a sidearm. Now here is where everyone would say well a core will fix that. I say maybe, but you missed the well placed sniper watching our every move and you will never get close enough. I hope that when we get Command Dropsuits, that they are essentially T2 logi suits. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Savage Mangler DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:29:00 - [116] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: [quote=DUST Fiend] But it doesn't solve the TTK issue at all. Like not at all. You are bringing up WP generation and being able to kill. I guess with your other comment you are wanting Dust to be like Dungeons and Dragons or something with healers only being able to heal?? For the record, clerics can wear armor and have access to two handed maces. You may as well of written that in Chinese. I have no idea what you are talking about, lol Off topic by a far margin, but cleric=logi is a good analogy. Back in 3.5 d&d a cleric could do everything damn near. Heavy armor, access to full progression spellcasting, including the delicious Power Word: Kill if you went War domain, as well as a buff spell that turned them into an equivalent level fighter. A party of 4 clerics could curbstomp a dungeon far easier than a rogue/fighter/wizard/cleric party could. -YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED- "Good, then they'll know who killed them." Keep your knives sharp....and your wits sharper.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2371	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:37:00 - [117] - Quote I wanted to make a long, multiple paragraph response, but meh. This has been debated, with reasonable arguments on both sides, but both sides think the other is QQ'ing simply because they believe in something different. It isn't QQ just because it isn't what you believe in, people. Let me just focus on one thing you said. Quote: I firmly believe that logi suit players make up a vast majority of Dust 514. Yeah, funny how that works, a large portion of people think this suit is overly-powerful, and an even larger portion of people are using it. Hint, hint. Been Logistics since before it was cool.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1170	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:38:00 - [118] - Quote Evicer wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Evicer wrote: Maximus Stryker wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The easy fix is to nerf CPU/PG significantly so it's impossible to fit a pimped out tank with a pimped out weapon. Then give a huge bonus CPU/PG reduction to certain equipment (like nanohives, needles, reppers, etc.). This would result in them being able to use great gear, but with lower tier weapons, or a great weapon with a weaker tank. Also, as TTK get's fixed, speed will play more of a factor in the overall survivability of a suit. This will hurt the logi some because it's drawback will be more significant. actually the easy fix is leave everything alone and simply remove light weapon from logi suit so that anyone with a brain will no longer play the suit and others will realize that you are just everyones ***** and the most expensive target on the field.... Im sorry but that was my translation of what you just typed Speak for yourself, I've been running a Sidearm-Only Logi for nearly a year now. ive never even heard of you ....and what are you ranked Never heard of you either.... IDK what I am ranked because IDGAF what an easily gamed leaderboard says. Obviously, I can tell that you're one of the monkeys who probably check the leaderboard after every match to find out how you should fell about yourself until the next match is over. Serious question, I've heard that leaderboard monkeys cut themselves if the leaderboard says that their rank went down, do you? Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 96	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:48:00 - [119] - Quote Ive never seen you either.Please remember my name and when you see me the next time please use you pistol....I'll be slurping on your tears as you throw your DS3 up against the wall and it breaks into a thousand pieces... Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
Nirwanda Vaughns Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 209	Posted - 2013.11.26 22:50:00 - [120] - Quote calvin b wrote: If team work is priority than the logi has nothing to worry. The assault will advance the line the heavy will surround the logi as the logi reps and resupplies the team. If you treat the logi like the secret service does the president you can now see how a logi could survive with a sidearm. Now here is where everyone would say well a core will fix that. I say maybe, but you missed the well placed sniper watching our every move and you will never get close enough. that sums up the logis role perfectly.



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