Respect you as a player, but you comments regarding vehicles always suck. Please just keep quiet on the subject, or become more flexible in your suggestions, in the same way I tell tankers to relax and consider what changes can be made without ******* one set of people over.

Also if you think tanks are easy mode and they don't have to make choice you are an idiot like Void Echo says, I play, and have played infantry for months now, its easy, it takes only a modicum of skill to get good at infantry foot work, and isn't all that complex.

You're trying to get them nerfed again? Good god some people just don't know when to quit lol

DJINN leukoplast once again shows how little he actually knows about vehicles

He thinks that vehicle have a weapons which can deal with infantry and vehicles, at best the blaster is the only one but it requires the pilot to risk his tank in CQC, the railgun is worse than the FG, and lolmissiles is worse than a mass driver

All our turrets require the pilot to aim, something that the majority of AV players do not have a clue about, AV nades - homing crutch no aim required spam from wherever and never miss, swarms fire and forget, keeps lock on if not looking at target, can lock on through cover, can jump and lock on and fire, no aim required, FG stronger and more splash than a vehicle mounted railgun and cheaper, requires some aim, plasma cannon needs a buff hardest AV weapon to use thus majority avoid using it

Not too mention it costs about 5games or more to replace if you lose one vehicle

While you think a basic tank is godly in the right hands we are still UP because lolproto AV which generally everyone has these days, play a PC match and proto is ther once again of course

i want ccp to hotfix ai to all mini vehicle turrets when unmanned and then let us lock it to ai only lol...maybe give us a skill tree for the ai as well make it smarter


it's learning muwahahahahaha

just for ***** and giggles their hp is still laughable for a tank

+1

Explain to me why the AI in the installations couldn't run on a tank too? It's big enough to have the compute power.

i want ccp to hotfix ai to all mini vehicle turrets when unmanned and then let us lock it to ai only lol...maybe give us a skill tree for the ai as well make it smarter


it's learning muwahahahahaha

just for ***** and giggles their hp is still laughable for a tank

+1

Explain to me why the AI in the installations couldn't run on a tank too? It's big enough to have the compute power.

1 players with 3 weapons to use at the same time?

yeah right....

What seems to be missed by nearly everyone is that Tanks require support, to use them solo is just ********, if you are and losing them.. tough. Look at Eve.. a solo Dread can be killed but a small fleet of HACs.. however if that Dread has a support fleet... then it's able to do it's job.. which is kill BIG stuff. while being protected.

I personally think that one guys with a swarm or a forge should not be able to kill a tank. but a team of guys should find it easy... promoting team work.

Nearly everyone i have seen using tanks uses them as a solo win button. which they are not.

also, often Tank chaps feel that tanks should be usable ALL the time in EVERY fight. This is simply stupid.. if we applied the same logi to suits, we would not have heavies, assults, scouts and logi.. or indeed the race variants. Just a single "cover all" suit and a single weapon that does the same DPS across all damage types at any range.

Now I can and do use tanks.. but only when they are needed and then using the correct (i hope) set up for the task i need them for... no point in running a rail tank into a city to kill infantry for example. Yet is seems that is what tanks chaps want... I have seen a post that asked for a tank to have two main weapons, a rail and a blaster...

It's time Dust got their head around what CCP do with their games... and it is not support solo game play, but infact team based play.

by your last remark, its seems as though you want CCP to make their game based on what you want, not how they intend.

I think he said the opposite

Let's just ignore vehicles for this example, and focus on infantry vs infantry in a parallel universe.

Imagine this:

In this universe, suits need to be taken out with very specific weapons. No exception. If you don't have the right weapon to take out that suit, you are absolutely screwed. They can stand there and take it all night long while you dish it out.

Example:

- Player A has weapons designed to take out ADV suits, but ADV suits only. If militia/STD or proto attack this player, the player is defenseless. Nothing they do will harm a militia/STD or proto suit in any way worth a damn.

- Player B has weapons designed to take out militia/STD, but is completely defenseless against ADV and proto suits.

- Player C has weapons designed to take out proto suits, but is absolutely helpless against ADV and militia/STD suits.


So would this be balanced, or completely unbalanced and ridiculous? Cause this is almost exactly what anti-vehicle and anti-infantry players have to deal with.

Anti-vehicle - Only good against vehciles, vulnerable vs infantry and vehicles.
Anti-infantry- Only good against infantry, vulnerable vs vehicles and infantry.


And here's the vehicle players setup.

Anti-infantry & vehicle - Vulnerable only by AV players and some vehicles, but excellent against all vehicles and all infantry.


This is wrong and needs to change. Vehicles have way too much of an advantage. They should have to make hard choices like infantry players do.

Either:

1. Vehicles only good against other vehicles, but worthless against infantry
2. Vehicles only good against infantry, defenseless to other vehicles.

Or:

Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused).

Lol, again with the tanks? My tank easily gets destroyed by anybody worrying about it. Likewise, the only people that die by my tank are ppl who are out in the open jumping around it.

If anything just nerf the tracking on the blaster turret.

1 players with 3 weapons to use at the same time?

yeah right....

What seems to be missed by nearly everyone is that Tanks require support, to use them solo is just ********, if you are and losing them.. tough. Look at Eve.. a solo Dread can be killed but a small fleet of HACs.. however if that Dread has a support fleet... then it's able to do it's job.. which is kill BIG stuff. while being protected.

I personally think that one guys with a swarm or a forge should not be able to kill a tank. but a team of guys should find it easy... promoting team work.

Nearly everyone i have seen using tanks uses them as a solo win button. which they are not.

also, often Tank chaps feel that tanks should be usable ALL the time in EVERY fight. This is simply stupid.. if we applied the same logi to suits, we would not have heavies, assults, scouts and logi.. or indeed the race variants. Just a single "cover all" suit and a single weapon that does the same DPS across all damage types at any range.

Now I can and do use tanks.. but only when they are needed and then using the correct (i hope) set up for the task i need them for... no point in running a rail tank into a city to kill infantry for example. Yet is seems that is what tanks chaps want... I have seen a post that asked for a tank to have two main weapons, a rail and a blaster...

It's time Dust got their head around what CCP do with their games... and it is not support solo game play, but infact team based play.

Let's just ignore vehicles for this example, and focus on infantry vs infantry in a parallel universe.

Imagine this:

In this universe, suits need to be taken out with very specific weapons. No exception. If you don't have the right weapon to take out that suit, you are absolutely screwed. They can stand there and take it all night long while you dish it out.

Example:

- Player A has weapons designed to take out ADV suits, but ADV suits only. If militia/STD or proto attack this player, the player is defenseless. Nothing they do will harm a militia/STD or proto suit in any way worth a damn.

- Player B has weapons designed to take out militia/STD, but is completely defenseless against ADV and proto suits.

- Player C has weapons designed to take out proto suits, but is absolutely helpless against ADV and militia/STD suits.


So would this be balanced, or completely unbalanced and ridiculous? Cause this is almost exactly what anti-vehicle and anti-infantry players have to deal with.

Anti-vehicle - Only good against vehciles, vulnerable vs infantry and vehicles.
Anti-infantry- Only good against infantry, vulnerable vs vehicles and infantry.


And here's the vehicle players setup.

Anti-infantry & vehicle - Vulnerable only by AV players and some vehicles, but excellent against all vehicles and all infantry.


This is wrong and needs to change. Vehicles have way too much of an advantage. They should have to make hard choices like infantry players do.

Either:

1. Vehicles only good against other vehicles, but worthless against infantry
2. Vehicles only good against infantry, defenseless to other vehicles.

Or:

Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused).

You're trying to get them nerfed again?

I don't use tanks so the fact I'd like them to be like tanks and represent a scary badass on the battlefield has nothing to do with tankers asking for unreasonable things.

Let's just ignore vehicles for this example, and focus on infantry vs infantry in a parallel universe.

Imagine this:

In this universe, suits need to be taken out with very specific weapons. No exception. If you don't have the right weapon to take out that suit, you are absolutely screwed. They can stand there and take it all night long while you dish it out.

Example:

- Player A has weapons designed to take out ADV suits, but ADV suits only. If militia/STD or proto attack this player, the player is defenseless. Nothing they do will harm a militia/STD or proto suit in any way worth a damn.

- Player B has weapons designed to take out militia/STD, but is completely defenseless against ADV and proto suits.

- Player C has weapons designed to take out proto suits, but is absolutely helpless against ADV and militia/STD suits.


So would this be balanced, or completely unbalanced and ridiculous? Cause this is almost exactly what anti-vehicle and anti-infantry players have to deal with.

Anti-vehicle - Only good against vehciles, vulnerable vs infantry and vehicles.
Anti-infantry- Only good against infantry, vulnerable vs vehicles and infantry.


And here's the vehicle players setup.

Anti-infantry & vehicle - Vulnerable only by AV players and some vehicles, but excellent against all vehicles and all infantry.


This is wrong and needs to change. Vehicles have way too much of an advantage. They should have to make hard choices like infantry players do.

Either:

1. Vehicles only good against other vehicles, but worthless against infantry
2. Vehicles only good against infantry, defenseless to other vehicles.

Or:

Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused).

seriously i expected better from a hellstorm member luko hellstorm in closed beta had some fine av im surprised to see one with the name djinn sound so butt hut over tanks still when they are the most broken thing in dust

tanks go pop thats all they do

this argument can also be turned around...

my dropsuit gets easily destroyed by anybody worrying about it. likewise, the only tanks that die by dropsuits are those who run out in the open...

Your tank didn't really seem to need nerfing or buffing when one of my alts (Peter H Capstick) and another of my squadmates (PJ Pretorius) were desperately trying to kill you and Dust Fiend along with some help from an allied missle tank and anothe blueberry with a militia swarm. We got Dust Fiends tank once. We couldn't kill yours but did keep you pressed back into your red zone most of the game after a very exciting flurry of fighting early.

That little move where you practically jumped that hill to road kill PJ was pretty epic. I think you killed us about 3 times each, Fiend got each of us a time or 2 as well.

All in all I thought it was a fun and exciting fight.

Tankers have a huge advantage? XD

As both a dedicated tanker and AV, I guarantee that tanks don't have the advantage. It's just that people usually don't go AV when the see them, and just pray that the tank will ignore them.

And of those few people that go AV, most use Militia AV and then complain that they aren't doing damage to a dedicated tank with dual proto hardeners.

Have you ever seen a squad with good AV? No? Then don't say that tanks have the advantage.

why do u guys reply to this troll.

even if he's serious it might as well be a troll post.

I think a tank did something naughty to him.

I'm still extending my offer to you. You can pilot one of my tanks, rail, blaster or missile, for however long, and we'll analyze the game. 5 per day, but only games that have ADV AV or higher count towards that total.

Afterwards, I'll make a post on here about it telling everyone how you did.

Um... no. Show me ANY real life parallel to this argument and I'll agree. The point of a vehicle, and thus the enormous amount of SP and ISK spent to gain use of and continue to use a vehicle, is to gain an ADVANTAGE. They cost more than drop suits. They're more skill intensive than drop suits. They're harder to use than drop suits. They're easier to see and draw much more attention than drop suits. They don't only deserve the advantage, but they NEED one. Having a crapload of HP and native resistance to small arms fire only makes sense. After all, it is a TANK.

Show me a real life tank that can even be remotely scratched by conventional small arms fire, and I'll submit to this argument. But you won't, and so neither will I.

Whats unreasonable is getting soloed by one person who cost 1/10 of you and getting killed by 3 grenades.

''Um... no. Show me ANY real life parallel to this argument and I'll agree. The point of a vehicle, and thus the enormous amount of SP and ISK spent to gain use of and continue to use a vehicle, is to gain an ADVANTAGE.''

The point of AV is to have a counter against that advantage , without the enormous cost.

:3

I see where the OP is coming from.He does have a point.

But at the same time me running with Swarms + SIX KIN SMG makes me useful vs infantry AND vehicles alike, im just sacrificing AI range.

Also people who main Plasma cannons+AV grenade+sidearm can damage everything in the game....

So meh. I wont discuss, i'll wait till vehicle/AV fix is here to rant again in the neverending vehicle vs AV war...

Nice crutchlauncher

But King you know swarms are broken as hell. Double DPS in prep for vehicle rebalance that never came.... now just double DPS, autolocking crutch launchers as Spkr says.

Let's just ignore vehicles for this example, and focus on infantry vs infantry in a parallel universe.

Imagine this:

In this universe, suits need to be taken out with very specific weapons. No exception. If you don't have the right weapon to take out that suit, you are absolutely screwed. They can stand there and take it all night long while you dish it out.

Example:

- Player A has weapons designed to take out ADV suits, but ADV suits only. If militia/STD or proto attack this player, the player is defenseless. Nothing they do will harm a militia/STD or proto suit in any way worth a damn.

- Player B has weapons designed to take out militia/STD, but is completely defenseless against ADV and proto suits.

- Player C has weapons designed to take out proto suits, but is absolutely helpless against ADV and militia/STD suits.


So would this be balanced, or completely unbalanced and ridiculous? Cause this is almost exactly what anti-vehicle and anti-infantry players have to deal with.

Anti-vehicle - Only good against vehciles, vulnerable vs infantry and vehicles.
Anti-infantry- Only good against infantry, vulnerable vs vehicles and infantry.


And here's the vehicle players setup.

Anti-infantry & vehicle - Vulnerable only by AV players and some vehicles, but excellent against all vehicles and all infantry.


This is wrong and needs to change. Vehicles have way too much of an advantage. They should have to make hard choices like infantry players do.

Either:

1. Vehicles only good against other vehicles, but worthless against infantry
2. Vehicles only good against infantry, defenseless to other vehicles.

Or:

Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused).

IT IS TRUE, however; Armor repairers are broken as hell too,and i dont see tankers complaining about them.
Broken vs Broken = weird balance.

I mean if a tank can take 6 of MY Swarms , plus 4 proximity mines plus 2 packedgrenades in less than 30 secs.... see where im going?

But this aspect of the game is OVERALL f***d up, no need to start fighting over this again,lets just leave it as it needs a fix.

''Um... no. Show me ANY real life parallel to this argument and I'll agree. The point of a vehicle, and thus the enormous amount of SP and ISK spent to gain use of and continue to use a vehicle, is to gain an ADVANTAGE.''

The point of AV is to have a counter against that advantage , without the enormous cost.

:3

I see where the OP is coming from.He does have a point.

But at the same time me running with Swarms + SIX KIN SMG makes me useful vs infantry AND vehicles alike, im just sacrificing AI range.

Also people who main Plasma cannons+AV grenade+sidearm can damage everything in the game....

So meh. I wont discuss, i'll wait till vehicle/AV fix is here to rant again in the neverending vehicle vs AV war...

Believe it or not, the vehicle or infantry counter thing u speak of is what the vehicle changes come out to be. Missiles do almost no blast damage and have tiny clip size....and small blast. rails will fore once every two seconds so both missiles and rails wont be very good vs infantry except for a very small number of tankers who are REALLY good with them. Blasters are actually weaker vs tanks. The small range and limited clip size makes more a turret that will be outclassed in most situations by the other turrets. So yeah, that'll happen and honestly, I don't mind blasters taking a slap in the face.

Believe it or not, the vehicle or infantry counter thing u speak of is what the vehicle changes come out to be. Missiles do almost no blast damage and have tiny clip size....and small blast. rails will fore once every two seconds so both missiles and rails wont be very good vs infantry except for a very small number of tankers who are REALLY good with them. Blasters are actually weaker vs tanks. The small range and limited clip size makes more a turret that will be outclassed in most situations by the other turrets. So yeah, that'll happen and honestly, I don't mind blasters taking a slap in the face.

IT IS TRUE, however; Armor repairers are broken as hell too,and i dont see tankers complaining about them.
Broken vs Broken = weird balance.

I mean if a tank can take 6 of MY Swarms , plus 4 proximity mines plus 2 packedgrenades in less than 30 secs.... see where im going?

But this aspect of the game is OVERALL f***d up, no need to start fighting over this again,lets just leave it as it needs a fix.

Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused).

I think a tank did something naughty to him.

I'm still extending my offer to you. You can pilot one of my tanks, rail, blaster or missile, for however long, and we'll analyze the game. 5 per day, but only games that have ADV AV or higher count towards that total.

Afterwards, I'll make a post on here about it telling everyone how you did.

The only reason why armor repairers are still broken is because they are the only thing that keeps them alive, so invalid argument. Anyways, that's about (assuming PROTO swarms) ~25k damage, so I think you're lying.

Im sorry i have no reason to lie:

i use ADV Swarms with prof 4 and 2 Cx Damage mods.
Im not lying. I even have the name of the tanker written around, he played for Dark Legion.

-Shot 1 volley of Swarms to scare him,
-As he got into the ''city'' are for cover (ambush i planed) he ate the 4 STD Prox mines while i reloaded.
-He decided to stop there and shoot at me, i responded with 3 STD ADV packed AV nades, 2 hit; 1 missed
-He decided he was low on HP and started moving (Exceedingly fast if i may..)
-I , while he was repairing armor shot him 3 more volleys
-He obviously outran me while i reloaded again and turned around in a corner where the ''fantastic'' feature tankers love about swarms kicked in and the next two volleys made a 90 degree turn avoiding walls and i got hit markers again.

He survived and fled.
A vein in my head popped.

Not saying Swarms are not VERY strong , just saying its funny tankers all they do is bash on AV weaponry but they wouldnt bat an eye if Armor repairers stay as they are. THIS IS BIASED; and not in the true nature of looking for BALANCE

Godin is right. If they weren't working like they are now. Tanking would be dead, I wouldn't be doing it and you'd never see tanks on the field, and you would have created CoD in space, not an attack at you personally. Tanking is barely viable now, let alone with Reppers that doing keep you repped.... I mean reppers also barely work now tbh.

Im sorry i have no reason to lie:

i use ADV Swarms with prof 4 and 2 Cx Damage mods.
Im not lying. I even have the name of the tanker written around, he played for Dark Legion.

-Shot 1 volley of Swarms to scare him,
-As he got into the ''city'' are for cover (ambush i planed) he ate the 4 STD Prox mines while i reloaded.
-He decided to stop there and shoot at me, i responded with 3 STD ADV packed AV nades, 2 hit; 1 missed
-He decided he was low on HP and started moving (Exceedingly fast if i may..)
-I , while he was repairing armor shot him 3 more volleys
-He obviously outran me while i reloaded again and turned around in a corner where the ''fantastic'' feature tankers love about swarms kicked in and the next two volleys made a 90 degree turn avoiding walls and i got hit markers again.

He survived and fled.
A vein in my head popped.

Not saying Swarms are not VERY strong , just saying its funny tankers all they do is bash on AV weaponry but they wouldnt bat an eye if Armor repairers stay as they are. THIS IS BIASED; and not in the true nature of looking for BALANCE

Okay, so ~21k damage. Still not buying it.

Well if a tank takes that kind of punishment i think is FAIR for him to die, considering he killed me 6 times in a row with only 2 shots hit....

-6 swarms (AV missiles designed to be EFFECTIVE VS VEHICLES)
-2 PACKED grenades
-4 Prox Mines

I mean what do tankers think is fair as for punishment their vehicles can take?

its called hardeners and reps.... and your swarm skill not being high enough. it normally takes about 3 volleys for someone to take down an average tanker if hes alone, it only takes one volley if there are multiple swarmers present...

teamwork and skill level are how your meant to kill us, not solo tactics with militia gear

Im sorry i have no reason to lie:

i use ADV Swarms with prof 4 and 2 Cx Damage mods.
Im not lying. I even have the name of the tanker written around, he played for Dark Legion.

-Shot 1 volley of Swarms to scare him,
-As he got into the ''city'' are for cover (ambush i planed) he ate the 4 STD Prox mines while i reloaded.
-He decided to stop there and shoot at me, i responded with 3 STD ADV packed AV nades, 2 hit; 1 missed
-He decided he was low on HP and started moving (Exceedingly fast if i may..)
-I , while he was repairing armor shot him 3 more volleys
-He obviously outran me while i reloaded again and turned around in a corner where the ''fantastic'' feature tankers love about swarms kicked in and the next two volleys made a 90 degree turn avoiding walls and i got hit markers again.

He survived and fled.
A vein in my head popped.

Not saying Swarms are not VERY strong , just saying its funny tankers all they do is bash on AV weaponry but they wouldnt bat an eye if Armor repairers stay as they are. THIS IS BIASED; and not in the true nature of looking for BALANCE

Super powerful armour reppers are all that's keeping tankers in business, saving those canny shield tankers I hate so much.

Not being high enough? I have Prof 4 and 2 CX damage mods.
I dont use MLT gear and you know it.

yeah, I know you don't use it, im just using that as an example for most of the people that come to the forums complaining about not being able to solo us with militia gear. sorry if that offended you in any way.... but you are in the wrong if you want us to submit to being soloed by anyone.


''teamwork and skill level are how your meant to kill us''
But for tankers to run solo is fair right?....

well... considering that it takes over 10x more SP and ISK for us to deploy tanks on the field than you need for fitting your dropsuits... yeah I do believe we earn the privilege of being able to survive alone (notice for once you idiot that im saying survive and not dominate you blind bastard)... that being said, the investment we make towards HAVs is far grater than your investment into infantry stuff along with how hard it is to stay alive at all during any given moment when we are piloting gives you the idea that this class should have the survival advantage over any other class that tries to go solo.


Heh i know where this is going.

AHA.so THEY ARE in business...
They dont get 1 shotted as (not you adamance) some tankers claim by AV.

Case rest.
Im off for a cig ...

AHA.so THEY ARE in business...
They dont get 1 shotted as (not you adamance) some tankers claim by AV.

Case rest.

''I'd love to have you in my tank checkmate, but you wouldn't want to spend all of your time sitting as a gunner, that's not interesting gameplay for you is it?''

I would , but dont think im going to think they are UP unless we get 1 HKOd by AV XD

idc about tanks :D There I said it :P

actually, I only get one shotted by one specific AV weapon... the assault forge gun.... such massive amount of damage in so little time.... it out does even my proto rail gun in both speed and damage..... id say that needs reworking..

the second thing that kills me the fastest is the lol nades, 3 of them takes down all 7000HP of armor that I have in under 5 seconds, from soloists and groups... if anything, the AV nades are the top AV weapon that needs to be nerfed, changed or just plain removed...

Removed since they don't make sense in game lore wise.

Armor tanks have had it so easy!!! Since I made the switch to a blaster mady, over the coarse of two weeks, while playing frequently I've lost one or two tanks to av players. Have yet to lose to a shield tank. Its actually crazy how much more powerful they are. There is honestly not a single reason why you should choose shield over armor, atm. more health more speed, better aiming angles, ******** reps, long lasting hardeners. I can fit a shield rep and scanner. all that with a proto gun and proto small blaster for my gunner. its easy mode for vehicles.

1-it would be awesome if more people skilled into tanks, I would have tons more fun battling other tankers than I do now because of you AVers getting in the way of trying to have fun here.. I say let more people skill into tanks, should revive the game for more aged tankers like myself.


2-in my truly honest opinion about all the classes in the game, the more of a personal investment you make in a certain class SP wise should grant you the right and privilege to outperform all other players in other classes and your own that have not put as much personal investment in their own classes as you have done for yours...

3-ex: a 17 Mil total SP tanker (myself) should definitely out perform a single av guy with less than 5 mil SP in AV mainly because... well I put much more time and investment into tanks than hes done for AV...

3-ex 2: a 6 mil SP sniper should out perform a 2 mil SP AR mainly because the sniper put more time and investment into sniping than the AR user did for his own class.

get it yet?

4-in all of human history including new eden, personal investment and time put in have always come out on top and out performed everyone and everything that has not done the same ore similar.... those that do are called competitors and the human life span drives off this basic survival instinct, to out perform the competitors and everyone else in order to survive.

1-Again beinga little selfish here aint ya' .What about us Infantry trying to have fun vs other infantry instead of having to worry about tanks? Biased thought is biased.

aren't you being a bit selfish by wanting tankers to be on the same level as dropsuits? I mean come on... tanks are 50 ton vehicles more than twice the size of infantry, if I don't have fun in the class I wanted to play as, why does that class even exist? plus... if you want an infantry only game, there is call of duty, if CCP didn't want vehicles to be deployed in matches, they wouldv never put them in the game.


2-So basically,if i run proto gear i shoudlnt be able to get killed by MLT/STD gear at all.By your reasoning..hmm..Proto suits / weapons / gear might be UNDERPOWERED then...

I don't mainly play as infantry but I have several million SP I put into gallente assault, so yeah Id say that stats are wrong on the basics, the weapons, the dropsits... almost everything in this game needs to be reworked imo.

3-I get it. But what you are saying is RPG / MMORP thought. This is a FPS,balance means that with skill, you can take out another player REGARDLESS of time invested in the game. If gear/time invested is always going to tryumph over skill, its not balance.

this isn't purely an FPS game, I hope you do realize that, as long as there is a skill system set up to train your character for specific roles instead of just mindless shooting and leveling up in general, then the game isn't purely an FPS. this game allow people to skill up their characters into specific roles and classes, that's RPGing, if you want a game that jut levels you up in general, again its called call of duty.

4- same as 3.

1-Again beinga little selfish here aint ya' .What about us Infantry trying to have fun vs other infantry instead of having to worry about tanks? Biased thought is biased.

2-So basically,if i run proto gear i shoudlnt be able to get killed by MLT/STD gear at all.By your reasoning..hmm..Proto suits / weapons / gear might be UNDERPOWERED then...

3-I get it. But what you are saying is RPG / MMORP thought. This is a FPS,balance means that with skill, you can take out another player REGARDLESS of time invested in the game. If gear/time invested is always going to tryumph over skill, its not balance.

4- same as 3.

@ adamance
''1-Yes Tank users should have a natural advantage over infantry, its the purpose for deploying a tank.

2-E.G- Take 2 500k SP toons. One pays 300K for his MLT tank, one uses a free MLT fit. Why does the AV have a natural advantage over the Tanker when they spent no ISK or SP to achieve that?''

1- So should AV then have a natural advantage over vehicles,since its designed for that purpose.
2-Because its designed to take out tanks.Same as a MLT tank can kill any PROTO if he is not carrying AV weaponry.

if I'm to grace you ridicules premise with a serious answer I would ask you how much you know about the various types of turrets available to tanks. it will be more interesting once we get pulse and beam lasers auto cannons and artillery but for now the range we have is fine.

missiles - very effective against installations and armor tanks, poor performance against infantry.
railguns - very effective against installations and all tanks, okay performance against infantry in the right hands
blasters - ineffective against installations and don't use it against anything but other blaster tanks, very good against infantry

now there are exceptions to the rules there are a few sevants with a railgun and at high levels blasters can take out installations and low sp tanks

I'll have to disagree with you on the missile turetts being inefective against infantry, as I be killing 'em with my Accelerated Missile Launchers.

The blast radius and splash damage actually make it the perfect choice for me when I'm going up against infantry.

@ Void Echo

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@ Adamace (wow im getting a beating here from tankers ..)

1-Yes but you have not put any effort or risk into using that fit, that is why AV is easy mode. I care not for balance, only the amount of effort someone has put into something.

2-Effort you never have to put in while Aving. If you put in 12m Sp into destroying tanks I would have no problem, you haven't put the same amount of effort in as a tanker has, thus solo you should never be able to beat them.

1-Effort? yeap. I'm missing on fun infatry vs infatry kills in order to spend a whole game hunting a tank,sometimes not even killing it,always not getting WP for pushing it back. Also, you care not for balance adamance, then why should WE AV infantry care for balance then...? You dont care for balance, and Void wants to get in a Pub match and unless we hace 3+ PROTO AV specialist working together,he want to be indestructible... I mean, lol.
The amount of effor will and SHOULD never be more powerful than SKILL, NEVER. SKILL > ALL

2-In this case, SP needed for tanks must be level to Infantry level, so that being a specialized AVer (with all things into consideration,dropsuit,weapon,sidearm,equipment,moddules,etc...) matches being a specialized tanker.

Fair points, my last comment was a little too hastily said, I'm sorry.

If you are keeping the tank on the run then be satisfied with not taking it down and keeping him from the fight.

Void might be able to continue.... but I feel I lost this round against you King.

Good win. I shall be back to argue with you later!

i feel for the infantry.it does seem a little silly that tanks can go into almost any match and pull off 25+-0 games and I always play by myself. Proto av can obviously stop me, but I expect it too and I can still manage to get good scores. I think the only time I really get completely ticked is when they have fully dedicated squads or have unfair vantage points. All talk about how it is now is a little pointless. Best to wait and see how the new changes play out. Which I have come to kinda like.

@ Void Echo
1-aren't you being a bit selfish by wanting tankers to be on the same level as dropsuits? I mean come on... tanks are 50 ton vehicles more than twice the size of infantry, if I don't have fun in the class I wanted to play as, why does that class even exist? plus... if you want an infantry only game, there is call of duty, if CCP didn't want vehicles to be deployed in matches, they wouldv never put them in the game.

2-I don't mainly play as infantry but I have several million SP I put into gallente assault, so yeah Id say that stats are wrong on the basics, the weapons, the dropsits... almost everything in this game needs to be reworked imo.

3-this isn't purely an FPS game, I hope you do realize that, as long as there is a skill system set up to train your character for specific roles instead of just mindless shooting and leveling up in general, then the game isn't purely an FPS. this game allow people to skill up their characters into specific roles and classes, that's RPGing, if you want a game that jut levels you up in general, again its called call of duty.


4- if the natural advantage basically makes the opposing class null and practically non-existent or non-usable at all, then there is no balance....

5- that person doesn't have nearly as much SP as I do halfway, he should never be on the level needed to fight me if doesn't put investment into his class like I did mine.


1-I dont want tankers to be at the same level as dropsuits. I want tankers to stop stomping on pub matches SOLO ,since the blue dots cant play together,they dont know any better. I want a Good AV player to be able to hold back 1 Good tanker and get WP for it,even if it doesnt mean destroying the tank.At the end of the day,regarless of play style, is 1 player vs another player.

2-we agree on something for a change.

3-Well it isnt purely a MMORPG either,i hope you realize that. CCP IS SELLING DUST as an FPS , with some RPG elements.
They are not selling it as it is world of tanks not twisted metal. Balance is needed for a FPS to be sucessful.
I dont like CoD, my first FPS was MAG.I like difficulty. BUT in this kind of games, more time invested + SP means a SLIGHT advantage over your enemy,if both have equal skill. Doesnt mean a 20mill player with little skill must win over a skilled player with 5 mill only because he has more skillpoints. THIS kills games same as pay to win...

4-The problem is,regardless of what tankers say, me and MANY more people just see tanks owning in the battlefield. You say AV is OP and takes down tanks instantly, and 1 player can solo a tank, but we just DONT see it.
we agree as in the 2nd point,it needs rework.

5-The problem is, They are being put in THE SAME MATCH AS YOU. whats the point of putting a player of 5mill vs another team with only 15mill+ players if he cant do anything about it?
While games mix players of different SP levels, everybody must have a chance to drop everybody. ITS FAIR.

---

@ Adamace (wow im getting a beating here from tankers ..)

1-Yes but you have not put any effort or risk into using that fit, that is why AV is easy mode. I care not for balance, only the amount of effort someone has put into something.

2-Effort you never have to put in while Aving. If you put in 12m Sp into destroying tanks I would have no problem, you haven't put the same amount of effort in as a tanker has, thus solo you should never be able to beat them.

1-Effort? yeap. I'm missing on fun infatry vs infatry kills in order to spend a whole game hunting a tank,sometimes not even killing it,always not getting WP for pushing it back. Also, you care not for balance adamance, then why should WE AV infantry care for balance then...? You dont care for balance, and Void wants to get in a Pub match and unless we hace 3+ PROTO AV specialist working together,he want to be indestructible... I mean, lol.
The amount of effor will and SHOULD never be more powerful than SKILL, NEVER. SKILL > ALL

2-In this case, SP needed for tanks must be level to Infantry level, so that being a specialized AVer (with all things into consideration,dropsuit,weapon,sidearm,equipment,moddules,etc...) matches being a specialized tanker.

Why? I can walk into matches and have games better than I ever would have done in a tank.

how many ******* times do I have to say this?

1-I don't invulnerability, that would be boring, I want survivability....

2-its NOT my fault that your bluetarded teammates wont bring out any AV when an enemy tank is rolling around, you shouldn't be blaming the tanker for that, you should be blaming 80% of the infantry that play this game.

Why? I can walk into matches and have games better than I ever would have done in a tank.

really, using what? I have yet to come close to a 5000 wp game with my logi character. 25's more of a low average. I also think it requires considerably less skill to pilot tanks. A few learning experiences, and some situational awareness and your good to go. The problem with tanks is that good builds are really set in stone. once you meet the requirements for them you can go around slaughtering infantry.

1-ok on that part im not disagreeing with you on this BUT, the AV should be able to solo a tanker ONLY if hes on the same tier level as the tanker: adv v adv, std vs std, proto vs proto... granted proto should be able to destroy several tanks with average effort put in.

2-if you don't want tanks to own in pubs (im assuming you mean ambush because I can only dominate in a tank with a tanker squad in skirmish) then get your teammates to bring in AV.

3-theres no way we are going to allow a single AV guy to kill off a fully decked tanker who knows wtf hes doing.

Respect you as a player, but you comments regarding vehicles always suck. Please just keep quiet on the subject, or become more flexible in your suggestions, in the same way I tell tankers to relax and consider what changes can be made without ******* one set of people over.

Also if you think tanks are easy mode and they don't have to make choice you are an idiot like Void Echo says, I play, and have played infantry for months now, its easy, it takes only a modicum of skill to get good at infantry foot work, and isn't all that complex.

you forgot the part where a single dropsuit loss will set the player back almost a whole day to get it back, and that the dropsuit player would have to worry about terrain, random bluetards, invisible explosives, unseen bolts of light coming from across the map or a high tower and many, many more things.


like adamance said, stop posting, hardly anyone respects your opinion on vehicles because you openly hate everything that's not call of duty style. just stop.

ADV Amarr Assault. It requires a different kind of skill to run infy.

even more of the better AVers agree with tankers that tanks should be buffed.. look around, youl see AVers complaining that they are bored with how easy it is to kill us..

I kill HAV's with my Wiki swarms on a daily basis. As a mater of fact, I just smashed 3 HAV's (one barely escaped) just 15 minutes ago in a PC. I also do Scout shotty/sniper. Lastly, I fly DS's, and drive LAV's as well, so I do a lot more than just drive HAV's. Come at me.

Oh so i've never said that tanks need a buff? YES I HAVE. This are my points overall:

1--Tanks need buff
2--AVers need to NOT be able to kill a tank of hiher level SOLO BUT; be able to make a profit pushing it back in occations.
3--I know you dont care about your enemy specialization earning WP, but i do care about WP gain for tanks,as for in search for balance,both sides must be able to make a profit.
4--Armor tanks are by no means UNDERPOWERED.


I just..despise tankers saying they get 1 HKOd by AV and i have NEVER done that...
And i have Proto AV..
I have taken out tanks alon, OF COURSE.But its never easy unless they are MLT....

4. actually they are only average if not op against shield tanks, gunnlogi and sicas... everything has explosive bonus damage against armor so that makes armor more disadvantaged against AV than shield tanks are.

IT IS TRUE, however; Armor repairers are broken as hell too,and i dont see tankers complaining about them.
Broken vs Broken = weird balance.

I mean if a tank can take 6 of MY Swarms , plus 4 proximity mines plus 2 packedgrenades in less than 30 secs.... see where im going?

But this aspect of the game is OVERALL f***d up, no need to start fighting over this again,lets just leave it as it needs a fix.

so in other words, You are admitting they are not UP, just not as good as they should be: +1

That just tells me you're doing it wrong by trying to solo a tanker.

there are some situations...

tank v tank: armor has the advantage over shield, been that way for a while now and shield need to be buffed to be on par so they are at least viable for tank combat.

AV v tank: armor is at a big disadvantage because everything has explosive damage bonuses against armor, shield doesn't suffer this disadvantage.

Oh so i've never said that tanks need a buff? YES I HAVE. This are my points overall:

1--Tanks need buff
2--AVers need to NOT be able to kill a tank of hiher level SOLO BUT; be able to make a profit pushing it back in occations.
3--I know you dont care about your enemy specialization earning WP, but i do care about WP gain for tanks,as for in search for balance,both sides must be able to make a profit.
4--Armor tanks are by no means UNDERPOWERED.


I just..despise tankers saying they get 1 HKOd by AV and i have NEVER done that...
And i have Proto AV..
I have taken out tanks alon, OF COURSE.But its never easy unless they are MLT....

You didnt smash 3 tanks by yourself, LIAR.
And as you told ME: I dont believe you


I didnt ask any of that , because i dont care.byes

But they are NOT UP because they are good vs shield tanks, Insta kill infantry (im exagerating of course) and with broken armor reps, they survive fights.
I agree they are not as good as they should be. But i insist , they are not UP as many claim. In the correct situation, a 6k Maddy can be unkillable...

Thats all im saying.

Ask anyone in my corp online. Blew up three, ran out of ammo before I could kill the last (damn nanohives running out....) and got killed by a 'construct' HMG, in which I got confused because construct is Caldari Constructions, but the HMG is a Matari weapon. As you said, I do HAV's, so I know how they move, and know their weaknesses. Don't underestimate me.

question... are you focusing on AV v tanks or tank v tank? because theres a difference between stances on both those topics.

But they are NOT UP because they are good vs shield tanks, Insta kill infantry (im exagerating of course) and with broken armor reps, they survive fights.
I agree they are not as good as they should be. But i insist , they are not UP as many claim. In the correct situation, a 6k Maddy with a good driver can be unkillable...

Thats all im saying.

1-Yeah like your corp WOULDNT lie for you.
2-Even if you are some Incredible GENIUS AVer, it doesnt mean Tanks are paper thin.just the tankers were not as good or lacked support.

I bet that if True Adamance+Void Echo+TheLegend were in a match vs you,you wouldnt be able to drop a single one of them....

3-im tryingto reachan agreement here with the tankers, you are just trying to provoque me,and will fail.Im in too good of a mood today bro.

Infantry AV vs Armor tank is basically what most of the time im talking about.

I know DS and shield tanks are utter crap and need a serious buff.

oh, armor has a big disadvantage, mainly because of the damage bonus towards armor that everything has.

It gets slightly compensated by the broken Rep modules.I agree without them maddys would be in the same situation as shield tanks

''that's why your in such a rational mood today''

That and the fact that (Godin was right) im not drunk, you see, i work in ... a place where i can drink while working....My line of work permits it.
But i got in a fight and i cant for at least 2 weeks , so im sober and i dont get pissed off easily there by dont end up talking without thinking...

for once, we have agreed on balance for something.... I think hell is going to freeze over tomorrow

for once, we have agreed on balance for something.... I think hell is going to freeze over tomorrow

I have the recording equipment available now... may not be the best for hi def but you can definitely see whats going on. I could keep the experience on visual and audio record

btw... who was the ****** that liked lukboy's post?

Not being high enough? I have Prof 4 and 2 CX damage mods.
I dont use MLT gear and you know it.

''teamwork and skill level are how your meant to kill us''
But for tankers to run solo is fair right?....

Heh i know where this is going.

AHA.so THEY ARE in business...
They dont get 1 shotted as (not you adamance) some tankers claim by AV.

Case rest.

''I'd love to have you in my tank checkmate, but you wouldn't want to spend all of your time sitting as a gunner, that's not interesting gameplay for you is it?''

I would , but dont think im going to think they are UP unless we get 1 HKOd by AV XD

1-Again beinga little selfish here aint ya' .What about us Infantry trying to have fun vs other infantry instead of having to worry about tanks? Biased thought is biased.

2-So basically,if i run proto gear i shoudlnt be able to get killed by MLT/STD gear at all.By your reasoning..hmm..Proto suits / weapons / gear might be UNDERPOWERED then...

3-I get it. But what you are saying is RPG / MMORP thought. This is a FPS,balance means that with skill, you can take out another player REGARDLESS of time invested in the game. If gear/time invested is always going to tryumph over skill, its not balance.

4- same as 3.

@ adamance
''1-Yes Tank users should have a natural advantage over infantry, its the purpose for deploying a tank.

2-E.G- Take 2 500k SP toons. One pays 300K for his MLT tank, one uses a free MLT fit. Why does the AV have a natural advantage over the Tanker when they spent no ISK or SP to achieve that?''

1- So should AV then have a natural advantage over vehicles,since its designed for that purpose.
2-Because its designed to take out tanks.Same as a MLT tank can kill any PROTO if he is not carrying AV weaponry.

So should AV then have a natural advantage over vehicles,since its designed for that purpose.
Because its designed to take out tanks.Same as a MLT tank can kill any PROTO if he is not carrying AV weaponry.

really, using what? I have yet to come close to a 5000 wp game with my logi character. 25's more of a low average. I also think it requires considerably less skill to pilot tanks. A few learning experiences, and some situational awareness and your good to go. The problem with tanks is that good builds are really set in stone. once you meet the requirements for them you can go around slaughtering infantry.

I bet that if True Adamance+Void Echo+TheLegend were in a match vs you,you wouldnt be able to drop a single one of them solo....

3-im trying to reach an agreement here with the tankers, you are just trying to provoque me,and will fail.Im in too good of a mood today bro.

[quote=KING CHECKMATE]

I bet that if True Adamance+Void Echo+TheLegend were in a match vs you,you wouldnt be able to drop a single one of them solo....

3-im trying to reach an agreement here with the tankers, you are just trying to provoque me,and will fail.Im in too good of a mood today bro.

Are you actually admitting that there are intelligent tankers, more so intelligent than infantry?

1 players with 3 weapons to use at the same time?

yeah right....

What seems to be missed by nearly everyone is that Tanks require support, to use them solo is just ********, if you are and losing them.. tough. Look at Eve.. a solo Dread can be killed but a small fleet of HACs.. however if that Dread has a support fleet... then it's able to do it's job.. which is kill BIG stuff. while being protected.

I personally think that one guys with a swarm or a forge should not be able to kill a tank. but a team of guys should find it easy... promoting team work.

Nearly everyone i have seen using tanks uses them as a solo win button. which they are not.

also, often Tank chaps feel that tanks should be usable ALL the time in EVERY fight. This is simply stupid.. if we applied the same logi to suits, we would not have heavies, assults, scouts and logi.. or indeed the race variants. Just a single "cover all" suit and a single weapon that does the same DPS across all damage types at any range.

Now I can and do use tanks.. but only when they are needed and then using the correct (i hope) set up for the task i need them for... no point in running a rail tank into a city to kill infantry for example. Yet is seems that is what tanks chaps want... I have seen a post that asked for a tank to have two main weapons, a rail and a blaster...

It's time Dust got their head around what CCP do with their games... and it is not support solo game play, but infact team based play.