Let's just ignore vehicles for this example, and focus on infantry vs infantry in a parallel universe.

Imagine this:

In this universe, suits need to be taken out with very specific weapons. No exception. If you don't have the right weapon to take out that suit, you are absolutely screwed. They can stand there and take it all night long while you dish it out.

Example:

- Player A has weapons designed to take out ADV suits, but ADV suits only. If militia/STD or proto attack this player, the player is defenseless. Nothing they do will harm a militia/STD or proto suit in any way worth a damn.

- Player B has weapons designed to take out militia/STD, but is completely defenseless against ADV and proto suits.

- Player C has weapons designed to take out proto suits, but is absolutely helpless against ADV and militia/STD suits.


So would this be balanced, or completely unbalanced and ridiculous? Cause this is almost exactly what anti-vehicle and anti-infantry players have to deal with.

Anti-vehicle - Only good against vehciles, vulnerable vs infantry and vehicles.
Anti-infantry- Only good against infantry, vulnerable vs vehicles and infantry.


And here's the vehicle players setup.

Anti-infantry & vehicle - Vulnerable only by AV players and some vehicles, but excellent against all vehicles and all infantry.


This is wrong and needs to change. Vehicles have way too much of an advantage. They should have to make hard choices like infantry players do.

Either:

1. Vehicles only good against other vehicles, but worthless against infantry
2. Vehicles only good against infantry, defenseless to other vehicles.

Or:

Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused).

You're trying to get them nerfed again?

I don't use tanks so the fact I'd like them to be like tanks and represent a scary badass on the battlefield has nothing to do with tankers asking for unreasonable things.

Let's just ignore vehicles for this example, and focus on infantry vs infantry in a parallel universe.

Imagine this:

In this universe, suits need to be taken out with very specific weapons. No exception. If you don't have the right weapon to take out that suit, you are absolutely screwed. They can stand there and take it all night long while you dish it out.

Example:

- Player A has weapons designed to take out ADV suits, but ADV suits only. If militia/STD or proto attack this player, the player is defenseless. Nothing they do will harm a militia/STD or proto suit in any way worth a damn.

- Player B has weapons designed to take out militia/STD, but is completely defenseless against ADV and proto suits.

- Player C has weapons designed to take out proto suits, but is absolutely helpless against ADV and militia/STD suits.


So would this be balanced, or completely unbalanced and ridiculous? Cause this is almost exactly what anti-vehicle and anti-infantry players have to deal with.

Anti-vehicle - Only good against vehciles, vulnerable vs infantry and vehicles.
Anti-infantry- Only good against infantry, vulnerable vs vehicles and infantry.


And here's the vehicle players setup.

Anti-infantry & vehicle - Vulnerable only by AV players and some vehicles, but excellent against all vehicles and all infantry.


This is wrong and needs to change. Vehicles have way too much of an advantage. They should have to make hard choices like infantry players do.

Either:

1. Vehicles only good against other vehicles, but worthless against infantry
2. Vehicles only good against infantry, defenseless to other vehicles.

Or:

Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused).

seriously i expected better from a hellstorm member luko hellstorm in closed beta had some fine av im surprised to see one with the name djinn sound so butt hut over tanks still when they are the most broken thing in dust

tanks go pop thats all they do

this argument can also be turned around...

my dropsuit gets easily destroyed by anybody worrying about it. likewise, the only tanks that die by dropsuits are those who run out in the open...

Your tank didn't really seem to need nerfing or buffing when one of my alts (Peter H Capstick) and another of my squadmates (PJ Pretorius) were desperately trying to kill you and Dust Fiend along with some help from an allied missle tank and anothe blueberry with a militia swarm. We got Dust Fiends tank once. We couldn't kill yours but did keep you pressed back into your red zone most of the game after a very exciting flurry of fighting early.

That little move where you practically jumped that hill to road kill PJ was pretty epic. I think you killed us about 3 times each, Fiend got each of us a time or 2 as well.

All in all I thought it was a fun and exciting fight.

Tankers have a huge advantage? XD

As both a dedicated tanker and AV, I guarantee that tanks don't have the advantage. It's just that people usually don't go AV when the see them, and just pray that the tank will ignore them.

And of those few people that go AV, most use Militia AV and then complain that they aren't doing damage to a dedicated tank with dual proto hardeners.

Have you ever seen a squad with good AV? No? Then don't say that tanks have the advantage.

why do u guys reply to this troll.

even if he's serious it might as well be a troll post.

I think a tank did something naughty to him.

I'm still extending my offer to you. You can pilot one of my tanks, rail, blaster or missile, for however long, and we'll analyze the game. 5 per day, but only games that have ADV AV or higher count towards that total.

Afterwards, I'll make a post on here about it telling everyone how you did.

Um... no. Show me ANY real life parallel to this argument and I'll agree. The point of a vehicle, and thus the enormous amount of SP and ISK spent to gain use of and continue to use a vehicle, is to gain an ADVANTAGE. They cost more than drop suits. They're more skill intensive than drop suits. They're harder to use than drop suits. They're easier to see and draw much more attention than drop suits. They don't only deserve the advantage, but they NEED one. Having a crapload of HP and native resistance to small arms fire only makes sense. After all, it is a TANK.

Show me a real life tank that can even be remotely scratched by conventional small arms fire, and I'll submit to this argument. But you won't, and so neither will I.

Whats unreasonable is getting soloed by one person who cost 1/10 of you and getting killed by 3 grenades.

''Um... no. Show me ANY real life parallel to this argument and I'll agree. The point of a vehicle, and thus the enormous amount of SP and ISK spent to gain use of and continue to use a vehicle, is to gain an ADVANTAGE.''

The point of AV is to have a counter against that advantage , without the enormous cost.

:3

I see where the OP is coming from.He does have a point.

But at the same time me running with Swarms + SIX KIN SMG makes me useful vs infantry AND vehicles alike, im just sacrificing AI range.

Also people who main Plasma cannons+AV grenade+sidearm can damage everything in the game....

So meh. I wont discuss, i'll wait till vehicle/AV fix is here to rant again in the neverending vehicle vs AV war...

Nice crutchlauncher

But King you know swarms are broken as hell. Double DPS in prep for vehicle rebalance that never came.... now just double DPS, autolocking crutch launchers as Spkr says.

Let's just ignore vehicles for this example, and focus on infantry vs infantry in a parallel universe.

Imagine this:

In this universe, suits need to be taken out with very specific weapons. No exception. If you don't have the right weapon to take out that suit, you are absolutely screwed. They can stand there and take it all night long while you dish it out.

Example:

- Player A has weapons designed to take out ADV suits, but ADV suits only. If militia/STD or proto attack this player, the player is defenseless. Nothing they do will harm a militia/STD or proto suit in any way worth a damn.

- Player B has weapons designed to take out militia/STD, but is completely defenseless against ADV and proto suits.

- Player C has weapons designed to take out proto suits, but is absolutely helpless against ADV and militia/STD suits.


So would this be balanced, or completely unbalanced and ridiculous? Cause this is almost exactly what anti-vehicle and anti-infantry players have to deal with.

Anti-vehicle - Only good against vehciles, vulnerable vs infantry and vehicles.
Anti-infantry- Only good against infantry, vulnerable vs vehicles and infantry.


And here's the vehicle players setup.

Anti-infantry & vehicle - Vulnerable only by AV players and some vehicles, but excellent against all vehicles and all infantry.


This is wrong and needs to change. Vehicles have way too much of an advantage. They should have to make hard choices like infantry players do.

Either:

1. Vehicles only good against other vehicles, but worthless against infantry
2. Vehicles only good against infantry, defenseless to other vehicles.

Or:

Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused).

IT IS TRUE, however; Armor repairers are broken as hell too,and i dont see tankers complaining about them.
Broken vs Broken = weird balance.

I mean if a tank can take 6 of MY Swarms , plus 4 proximity mines plus 2 packedgrenades in less than 30 secs.... see where im going?

But this aspect of the game is OVERALL f***d up, no need to start fighting over this again,lets just leave it as it needs a fix.

''Um... no. Show me ANY real life parallel to this argument and I'll agree. The point of a vehicle, and thus the enormous amount of SP and ISK spent to gain use of and continue to use a vehicle, is to gain an ADVANTAGE.''

The point of AV is to have a counter against that advantage , without the enormous cost.

:3

I see where the OP is coming from.He does have a point.

But at the same time me running with Swarms + SIX KIN SMG makes me useful vs infantry AND vehicles alike, im just sacrificing AI range.

Also people who main Plasma cannons+AV grenade+sidearm can damage everything in the game....

So meh. I wont discuss, i'll wait till vehicle/AV fix is here to rant again in the neverending vehicle vs AV war...

Believe it or not, the vehicle or infantry counter thing u speak of is what the vehicle changes come out to be. Missiles do almost no blast damage and have tiny clip size....and small blast. rails will fore once every two seconds so both missiles and rails wont be very good vs infantry except for a very small number of tankers who are REALLY good with them. Blasters are actually weaker vs tanks. The small range and limited clip size makes more a turret that will be outclassed in most situations by the other turrets. So yeah, that'll happen and honestly, I don't mind blasters taking a slap in the face.

Believe it or not, the vehicle or infantry counter thing u speak of is what the vehicle changes come out to be. Missiles do almost no blast damage and have tiny clip size....and small blast. rails will fore once every two seconds so both missiles and rails wont be very good vs infantry except for a very small number of tankers who are REALLY good with them. Blasters are actually weaker vs tanks. The small range and limited clip size makes more a turret that will be outclassed in most situations by the other turrets. So yeah, that'll happen and honestly, I don't mind blasters taking a slap in the face.

IT IS TRUE, however; Armor repairers are broken as hell too,and i dont see tankers complaining about them.
Broken vs Broken = weird balance.

I mean if a tank can take 6 of MY Swarms , plus 4 proximity mines plus 2 packedgrenades in less than 30 secs.... see where im going?

But this aspect of the game is OVERALL f***d up, no need to start fighting over this again,lets just leave it as it needs a fix.

Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused).

I think a tank did something naughty to him.

I'm still extending my offer to you. You can pilot one of my tanks, rail, blaster or missile, for however long, and we'll analyze the game. 5 per day, but only games that have ADV AV or higher count towards that total.

Afterwards, I'll make a post on here about it telling everyone how you did.

The only reason why armor repairers are still broken is because they are the only thing that keeps them alive, so invalid argument. Anyways, that's about (assuming PROTO swarms) ~25k damage, so I think you're lying.

Im sorry i have no reason to lie:

i use ADV Swarms with prof 4 and 2 Cx Damage mods.
Im not lying. I even have the name of the tanker written around, he played for Dark Legion.

-Shot 1 volley of Swarms to scare him,
-As he got into the ''city'' are for cover (ambush i planed) he ate the 4 STD Prox mines while i reloaded.
-He decided to stop there and shoot at me, i responded with 3 STD ADV packed AV nades, 2 hit; 1 missed
-He decided he was low on HP and started moving (Exceedingly fast if i may..)
-I , while he was repairing armor shot him 3 more volleys
-He obviously outran me while i reloaded again and turned around in a corner where the ''fantastic'' feature tankers love about swarms kicked in and the next two volleys made a 90 degree turn avoiding walls and i got hit markers again.

He survived and fled.
A vein in my head popped.

Not saying Swarms are not VERY strong , just saying its funny tankers all they do is bash on AV weaponry but they wouldnt bat an eye if Armor repairers stay as they are. THIS IS BIASED; and not in the true nature of looking for BALANCE