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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1150
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 12:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
You're trying to get them nerfed again? Good god some people just don't know when to quit lol |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1159
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:You're trying to get them nerfed again? Good god some people just don't know when to quit lol seriously i expected better from a hellstorm member luko hellstorm in closed beta had some fine av im surprised to see one with the name djinn sound so butt hut over tanks still when they are the most broken thing in dust tanks go pop thats all they do
We still got dat' AV on lockdown |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1159
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Let's just ignore vehicles for this example, and focus on infantry vs infantry in a parallel universe.
Imagine this:
In this universe, suits need to be taken out with very specific weapons. No exception. If you don't have the right weapon to take out that suit, you are absolutely screwed. They can stand there and take it all night long while you dish it out.
Example:
- Player A has weapons designed to take out ADV suits, but ADV suits only. If militia/STD or proto attack this player, the player is defenseless. Nothing they do will harm a militia/STD or proto suit in any way worth a damn.
- Player B has weapons designed to take out militia/STD, but is completely defenseless against ADV and proto suits.
- Player C has weapons designed to take out proto suits, but is absolutely helpless against ADV and militia/STD suits.
So would this be balanced, or completely unbalanced and ridiculous? Cause this is almost exactly what anti-vehicle and anti-infantry players have to deal with.
Anti-vehicle - Only good against vehciles, vulnerable vs infantry and vehicles. Anti-infantry- Only good against infantry, vulnerable vs vehicles and infantry.
And here's the vehicle players setup.
Anti-infantry & vehicle - Vulnerable only by AV players and some vehicles, but excellent against all vehicles and all infantry.
This is wrong and needs to change. Vehicles have way too much of an advantage. They should have to make hard choices like infantry players do.
Either:
1. Vehicles only good against other vehicles, but worthless against infantry 2. Vehicles only good against infantry, defenseless to other vehicles.
Or:
Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused). Lol, again with the tanks? My tank easily gets destroyed by anybody worrying about it. Likewise, the only people that die by my tank are ppl who are out in the open jumping around it. If anything just nerf the tracking on the blaster turret. this argument can also be turned around... my dropsuit gets easily destroyed by anybody worrying about it. likewise, the only tanks that die by dropsuits are those who run out in the open...
And the ones that goes into CQ areas, and the ones trying to hide from that swarmer he/she doesn't even know where it is, etc. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1159
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lv2spd2 wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:You're trying to get them nerfed again? Your tank didn't really seem to need nerfing or buffing when one of my alts (Peter H Capstick) and another of my squadmates (PJ Pretorius) were desperately trying to kill you and Dust Fiend along with some help from an allied missle tank and anothe blueberry with a militia swarm. We got Dust Fiends tank once. We couldn't kill yours but did keep you pressed back into your red zone most of the game after a very exciting flurry of fighting early. That little move where you practically jumped that hill to road kill PJ was pretty epic. I think you killed us about 3 times each, Fiend got each of us a time or 2 as well. All in all I thought it was a fun and exciting fight.
I remember that. You guys kept on missing, but did decent damage. Oh and dat' jump, amazing. Anyways, you can't balance around the best. If that's the case, every weapon needs to stay where it's at, or get nerfed, because there's always that one guy/girl who can still kill like crazy with it. Anyways, that was just a lucky game. I usually pull it out, kill about 10 people, then get PROTO swarms or a PROTO forge on me within 5 minutes, and barely escape, or die. If I do kill it, I'm in the redline for a long while. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1166
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 00:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Tankers have a huge advantage? XD
As both a dedicated tanker and AV, I guarantee that tanks don't have the advantage. It's just that people usually don't go AV when the see them, and just pray that the tank will ignore them.
And of those few people that go AV, most use Militia AV and then complain that they aren't doing damage to a dedicated tank with dual proto hardeners.
Have you ever seen a squad with good AV? No? Then don't say that tanks have the advantage.
He solo's all the time. I never even see him on....... |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1170
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 00:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote:why do u guys reply to this troll.
even if he's serious it might as well be a troll post.
Because it's fun responding to this idiot for some reason. I don't know..... |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1170
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 00:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:I think a tank did something naughty to him.
I'm still extending my offer to you. You can pilot one of my tanks, rail, blaster or missile, for however long, and we'll analyze the game. 5 per day, but only games that have ADV AV or higher count towards that total.
Afterwards, I'll make a post on here about it telling everyone how you did.
Hell, I'll do the same |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1177
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 01:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:True Adamance wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:''Um... no. Show me ANY real life parallel to this argument and I'll agree. The point of a vehicle, and thus the enormous amount of SP and ISK spent to gain use of and continue to use a vehicle, is to gain an ADVANTAGE.''
The point of AV is to have a counter against that advantage , without the enormous cost.
:3
I see where the OP is coming from.He does have a point.
But at the same time me running with Swarms + SIX KIN SMG makes me useful vs infantry AND vehicles alike, im just sacrificing AI range.
Also people who main Plasma cannons+AV grenade+sidearm can damage everything in the game....
So meh. I wont discuss, i'll wait till vehicle/AV fix is here to rant again in the neverending vehicle vs AV war... Nice crutchlauncher But King you know swarms are broken as hell. Double DPS in prep for vehicle rebalance that never came.... now just double DPS, autolocking crutch launchers as Spkr says. IT IS TRUE, however; Armor repairers are broken as hell too,and i dont see tankers complaining about them. Broken vs Broken = weird balance. I mean if a tank can take 6 of MY Swarms , plus 4 proximity mines plus 2 packedgrenades in less than 30 secs.... see where im going? But this aspect of the game is OVERALL f***d up, no need to start fighting over this again,lets just leave it as it needs a fix.
The only reason why armor repairers are still broken is because they are the only thing that keeps them alive, so invalid argument. Anyways, that's about (assuming PROTO swarms) ~25k damage, so I think you're lying. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1177
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 01:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Let's just ignore vehicles for this example, and focus on infantry vs infantry in a parallel universe.
Imagine this:
In this universe, suits need to be taken out with very specific weapons. No exception. If you don't have the right weapon to take out that suit, you are absolutely screwed. They can stand there and take it all night long while you dish it out.
Example:
- Player A has weapons designed to take out ADV suits, but ADV suits only. If militia/STD or proto attack this player, the player is defenseless. Nothing they do will harm a militia/STD or proto suit in any way worth a damn.
- Player B has weapons designed to take out militia/STD, but is completely defenseless against ADV and proto suits.
- Player C has weapons designed to take out proto suits, but is absolutely helpless against ADV and militia/STD suits.
So would this be balanced, or completely unbalanced and ridiculous? Cause this is almost exactly what anti-vehicle and anti-infantry players have to deal with.
Anti-vehicle - Only good against vehciles, vulnerable vs infantry and vehicles. Anti-infantry- Only good against infantry, vulnerable vs vehicles and infantry.
And here's the vehicle players setup.
Anti-infantry & vehicle - Vulnerable only by AV players and some vehicles, but excellent against all vehicles and all infantry.
This is wrong and needs to change. Vehicles have way too much of an advantage. They should have to make hard choices like infantry players do.
Either:
1. Vehicles only good against other vehicles, but worthless against infantry 2. Vehicles only good against infantry, defenseless to other vehicles.
Or:
Infantry players need dedicated AV on all suits. Which means separate PG/CPU and slots for AV specific weaponry, this way infantry can carry both and be equally effective against vehicles and infantry. However the extra PG/CPU and slots can only be used for AV weapons (that way they can't be abused). Believe it or not, the vehicle or infantry counter thing u speak of is what the vehicle changes come out to be. Missiles do almost no blast damage and have tiny clip size....and small blast. rails will fore once every two seconds so both missiles and rails wont be very good vs infantry except for a very small number of tankers who are REALLY good with them. Blasters are actually weaker vs tanks. The small range and limited clip size makes more a turret that will be outclassed in most situations by the other turrets. So yeah, that'll happen and honestly, I don't mind blasters taking a slap in the face.
Why? It's your fault for getting too close in the first place......
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1177
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 01:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
The only reason why armor repairers are still broken is because they are the only thing that keeps them alive, so invalid argument. Anyways, that's about (assuming PROTO swarms) ~25k damage, so I think you're lying.
Im sorry i have no reason to lie: i use ADV Swarms with prof 4 and 2 Cx Damage mods. Im not lying. I even have the name of the tanker written around, he played for Dark Legion. -Shot 1 volley of Swarms to scare him, -As he got into the ''city'' are for cover (ambush i planed) he ate the 4 STD Prox mines while i reloaded. -He decided to stop there and shoot at me, i responded with 3 STD ADV packed AV nades, 2 hit; 1 missed -He decided he was low on HP and started moving (Exceedingly fast if i may..) -I , while he was repairing armor shot him 3 more volleys -He obviously outran me while i reloaded again and turned around in a corner where the ''fantastic'' feature tankers love about swarms kicked in and the next two volleys made a 90 degree turn avoiding walls and i got hit markers again.He survived and fled. A vein in my head popped.Not saying Swarms are not VERY strong , just saying its funny tankers all they do is bash on AV weaponry but they wouldnt bat an eye if Armor repairers stay as they are. THIS IS BIASED; and not in the true nature of looking for BALANCE
Okay, so ~21k damage. Still not buying it. |
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1180
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 03:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote: Okay, so ~21k damage. Still not buying it.
Im not trying to convince you, your opinion is irrerelevant to me.You are a biased tanker
I kill HAV's with my Wiki swarms on a daily basis. As a mater of fact, I just smashed 3 HAV's (one barely escaped) just 15 minutes ago in a PC. I also do Scout shotty/sniper. Lastly, I fly DS's, and drive LAV's as well, so I do a lot more than just drive HAV's. Come at me. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1181
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 03:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote: Okay, so ~21k damage. Still not buying it.
Im not trying to convince you, your opinion is irrerelevant to me.You are a biased tanker I kill HAV's with my Wiki swarms on a daily basis. As a mater of fact, I just smashed 3 HAV's (one barely escaped) just 15 minutes ago in a PC. I also do Scout shotty/sniper. Lastly, I fly DS's, and drive LAV's as well, so I do a lot more than just drive HAV's. Come at me. You didnt smash 3 tanks by yourself, LIAR. And as you told ME: I dont believe you I didnt ask any of that , because i dont care.byes
Ask anyone in my corp online. Blew up three, ran out of ammo before I could kill the last (damn nanohives running out....) and got killed by a 'construct' HMG, in which I got confused because construct is Caldari Constructions, but the HMG is a Matari weapon. As you said, I do HAV's, so I know how they move, and know their weaknesses. Don't underestimate me. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1181
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 03:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Void Echo wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Void Echo wrote:
4. actually they are only average if not op against shield tanks, gunnlogi and sicas... everything has explosive bonus damage against armor so that makes armor more disadvantaged against AV than shield tanks are.
so in other words, You are admitting they are not UP, just not as good as they should be: +1 there are some situations... tank v tank: armor has the advantage over shield, been that way for a while now and shield need to be buffed to be on par so they are at least viable for tank combat. AV v tank: armor is at a big disadvantage because everything has explosive damage bonuses against armor, shield doesn't suffer this disadvantage. But they are NOT UP because they are good vs shield tanks, Insta kill infantry (im exagerating of course) and with broken armor reps, they survive fights. I agree they are not as good as they should be. But i insist , they are not UP as many claim. In the correct situation, a 6k Maddy with a good driver can be unkillable... Thats all im saying.
All I'm saying is that in those situations, the right position, and right amount of AV can in fact pop that 6k Maddy, so even then, it doesn't matter. Yea, Caldari HAV's are even worse off than Gallente HAV's (getting fixed in vehicle update), and yea, you can kill infantry pretty fast with a Quote:Large Vehicle Turret , but if you can't live through enough matches with one, that killing power doesn't matter. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1182
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 04:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Void Echo wrote:
oh, armor has a big disadvantage, mainly because of the damage bonus towards armor that everything has.
It gets slightly compensated by the broken Rep modules.I agree without them maddys would be in the same situation as shield tanks''that's why your in such a rational mood today''That and the fact that (Godin was right) im not drunk, you see, i work in ... a place where i can drink while working....My line of work permits it. But i got in a fight and i cant for at least 2 weeks , so im sober and i dont get pissed off easily there by dont end up talking without thinking... for once, we have agreed on balance for something.... I think hell is going to freeze over tomorrow
IT's not frozen (yet), but it surely isn't hot. We put out the flame. Now we can freeze it over |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1187
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 08:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:[quote=KING CHECKMATE]
I bet that if True Adamance+Void Echo+TheLegend were in a match vs you,you wouldnt be able to drop a single one of them solo....
3-im trying to reach an agreement here with the tankers, you are just trying to provoque me,and will fail.Im in too good of a mood today bro.
I've soloed all of them. Your point? |
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