Does anyone use the HMG anymore?
CCP Rattati chimes in his own experience with the interesting Heavy HMG discussion going on with the players. Does anyone use the HMG anymore, apparently some do! :P

Thats right CCP, just because you designed the suit for a certain play style it shouldnt be that way and you need to cater to guys who want to kick in doors with 1k + ehp and kill from 60 meters away


Seriously though thats what its designed for, not everyone gets to be in the spear head and if you want to go assaulting guys then maybe wear an assault suit while you do it
Agree that scouts need some love though, Im thinking pump up their stamina since they travel light and rework hack speeds on suits so logis get the fastest hacks, scouts second, assaults 3rd and heavies last
Not talking huge gaps though, a heavy shouldnt take 60 seconds to hack something that a logi spends ten seconds on, more like 15 to a logis 10

Thats right CCP, just because you designed the suit for a certain play style it shouldnt be that way and you need to cater to guys who want to kick in doors with 1k + ehp and kill from 60 meters away


Seriously though thats what its designed for, not everyone gets to be in the spear head and if you want to go assaulting guys then maybe wear an assault suit while you do it
Agree that scouts need some love though, Im thinking pump up their stamina since they travel light and rework hack speeds on suits so logis get the fastest hacks, scouts second, assaults 3rd and heavies last
Not talking huge gaps though, a heavy shouldnt take 60 seconds to hack something that a logi spends ten seconds on, more like 15 to a logis 10

Im not saying what should be done, but designing the heavy with ONE playstyle in mind is a bad thing yes?

\I find myself a sad panda CCP seem to be blowing off an important topic, or are at least not getting the point.

For Eve Online some of the issues they've put off can be measured in years. Not that any acknowledgement would matter. They've already recognized that scout performance was dropping and would look into it. That was over two months ago with no forum updates.

On my main I play a heavy and the current position is to chill until 2.0 drops. The Devs have so much on their plates I'll be happy so long as they don't screw up the Forge Guns in a patch.

Thats right CCP, just because you designed the suit for a certain play style it shouldnt be that way and you need to cater to guys who want to kick in doors with 1k + ehp and kill from 60 meters away


Seriously though thats what its designed for, not everyone gets to be in the spear head and if you want to go assaulting guys then maybe wear an assault suit while you do it

Im going to try really hard not to talk about how i can use the FG better than the HMG in its own element ... crap just did

IKR

Unless that Dev is playing a suit that hasn't been released to us he's playing a basic or Sentinel.
THAT specific racial line of heavy suit(s) may be geared towards a defensive role, that doesn't
mean the other (long overdue) racial heavies need to be shoehorned into that role as well.

Amarr heavies are defensive... Fine.
Why do the other racial heavy suits have to be as well?
Honest question. Seriously, if a logi can out assault an assault and everyone is fine with it
why can't a heavy go offensive?

Going with what the "community" has told continually stated.

Everywhere I looked when concerning heavies it was always "the Devs stated the sentinel was/is
designed for defense. Play your role!" or some such variation of that.

So I posted a thread and asked why that was the case. Apparently some Dev said it so it became
gospel.

But that was Amarr heavy/Sentinel specific. That's where that's coming from.

I gave up on hoping for a different perspective on the Sentinel line.
The rest of the racial heavies though... We shouldn't let them get screwed over into a "defensive"
only sort of role.

Edit: See MM's post above. Some variation or another.

Once again just facts here, Im not ready to wade in!

But all suits currently at least have the same variations!

ALL lights will have pilot and scout
ALL mediums have assault and logi
ALL Heavies have sentinel and commando

But that doesn't mean you can't mod them!

You say the sentinal is defensive. Its design is based on that... then shouldnt logi be strictly support?

Think... know this is dangerous... this highlights an issue.... or at least a mentalitly in the suits.

The specialised suits, assault, logi, sentinal, commando... arent "equal" in regards to how restrictive they are.

The assault/Logi are very wide ranging. The sentinal/commando are pretty definitive in what they do.

You say the sentinal is defensive. Its design is based on that... then shouldnt logi be strictly support?

Then wade in I shall!



Assults specialisation much to a lot of peoples suprise is meant to be its versatility! An assault can be a chopshopped version of any other suit. It can run a decent scout, but not as good as a scout, it can be a brick tank heavy but not as good as a heavy!!

Logi units need a slight change, which ccp are apparently working on but having trouble with, they plan to lower pg/cpu on the suits but give bonuses to eq fitting costs, that way they can't out tank! But once again logistics is a diverse roll. As are they all!

A sentinel is designed for defence apparently, but what is a defensive role?
Is it guard a null cannon?
Is it tail end charlie?
Maybe its area denial and suppression?

The heavy is what you make lf it, but it should not be alone wolf gear, no suit should be!

It just so happens that the suit lends itself to places with good cover! When bubble sheilds are released and triage repair tools aremore useful, heavies will see more time on the frontline!

Im just gonna watch for now but I'll leave this here as a talking point!

Sentinel
(Noun)

A soldier or guard whose job is to stand and keep watch

Liking what you say up to the heavy bit makes sense

the sentinal role (atm) seem to just overlap with the basic heavy... just with a lightly different slot layout... it really isnt complete yet and personally i think it should never have been released... however much im craving new suits lol

Basic heavies... just feel a bit.... lame... by which i actually mean lame as in crippled

What if you got a little health boost and a speed drop on the sentinel?
Prehaps a few more module slots?

Also consider this is the amarian suit, which has always been about slow heavy tanking, the minmatar for example will find it much easier to move tactically across open ground! While gallante will be forced to stay in cities more often!

Bear in mind that any point defense role in RL is never done in a way as to let the enemy approach to practically CQC range and then engage it. Every realistic point defense setup is designed to prevent the enemy from approaching in the first place. If the enemy gets close, then point defense has already failed. Typical RL anti-infantry point defense weapon is the LMG. Now, what attribute RL LMG has that DUST HMG so badly lacks? You guessed it - it's range. Without range, HMG in not suitable for point defense role, no matter how powerful it is at close range.

HMG, as it is now, is an offensive weapon (or at least, it should be). To be effective, heavy has to close the distance between him an the enemy. And this is where the heavy/sentinel suit simply isn't up to the job. The approx. 500 extra HP (on average) it has compared to the medium suits amounts to a second-and-a-half longer life expectancy when tanking the ever popular AR. That's maybe 7-8 meters of distance at heavy's running speed. If you take into account the difference in effective range of the HMG and AR, that simply isn't enough. Also, expecting from a heavy to run from cover to cover, outflank, outmaneuver or "surprise" the enemy is clearly not something a sentinel can do effectively, nor what it is designed for.

So, basically you have a weapon that is good for assaulting stuck to a dropsuit that is only good for defense. The only other option is the FG, but that's a whole different story. Maybe when other heavy weapon variants are released (amarr heavy pulse laser?), sentinels will get the weapon with which they can perform their "sentineling" properly.

If you did that why would anyone use the basic?
The sentinal could get a HP boost, turn slower, but have a dmg bonus... or something i dont know, really need the whole line up and sort them all out in one go, with racial heavy weapons etc

Hmg is a minmatar weapon, in dust at least minmatar is known for short range breaching or long distance suppression/area denial! I believe the hmg needs a much longer effective to fit this bill somewhere along the lines of 80-100m effective, enough to really scare an enemy into hunkering down! But as I said this an amarr suit which are always better for longer ranges, which a minmatar weapon doesn't allow!

Hmg is a minmatar weapon, in dust at least minmatar is known for short range breaching or long distance suppression/area denial! I believe the hmg needs a much longer effective to fit this bill somewhere along the lines of 80-100m effective, enough to really scare an enemy into hunkering down! But as I said this an amarr suit which are always better for longer ranges, which a minmatar weapon doesn't allow!

HMG on a fast Minmatar heavy suit could work...

So CCP gave a Minmitar weapon, to an Amarr suit, then proceed to balance the gun to reflect it's a short range weapon designed for faster suits to close the gap...hahahahahahahahahahhaha

Yea that makes total sense!

Give the slowest race, a weapon that requires CQC! Just call heavies a camping class and be done with it.

Its not an ideal situation at the moment, but when they are released I imagine suits will complement their weapons better!
Saying that I have seen interesting and effective heavy squads before!

One use a dropship dropped dirrectly onto the point and locked it down was pure genius, and ill never forget my teamates response as a heavy landed 30 cm from him!

Bo***ks

Its not an ideal situation at the moment, but when they are released I imagine suits will complement their weapons better!
Saying that I have seen interesting and effective heavy squads before!

One use a dropship dropped dirrectly onto the point and locked it down was pure genius, and ill never forget my teamates response as a heavy landed 30 cm from him!

Bo***ks

as a proto heavy in my main i have little problem going ham if i run with my sqd i can easily go 10+ kills/ 3- deaths
and as for attacking the objective vs defending one my sqd style caters to the heavy as we are the slowest (defend order on me and sqd forms around me then we move as one slow unified group into the bulkhead of radish scurge and when we get to the front line i take point til i get low armor then fall back and let me sqd finnish up ...all with hmg basic (prof 5)

*cough* Forge gun squads *cough*

... what?... no theyre a bad idea ... why would anyone say such a thing...

*kicks FG under the table*



Have you never had 6 Sentinals "sprinting" towards you with Nova Knives... thats scary... you seriously cant move from laughing

lol @ heavy squads. Seeing a Caldari squad is more scary, sorry.

only 10 kills? in a pub? if I don't get 20+ with 2-3 deaths I had a bad game.

Giving advice to people that know how to play their role means nothing when the role is **** in a competitive environment.

Thing is you could prob do better with a different weapon....

HMG, as it is now, is an offensive weapon (or at least, it should be). To be effective, heavy has to close the distance between him an the enemy. And this is where the heavy/sentinel suit simply isn't up to the job.

It's funny that all of the other dropsuits have changed how they're used over this games lifetime and yet this amazing strategy of of dropping heavies out of a dropship was very common in the Tester's Tournament which was Codex I believe and was also used by many people in just regular pub games before that.

Other suits have evolved and shifted focus whereas heavies are devolving and being viable in less and less strats

you are simply doing it wrong.

-a brick tanked logi is as slow as a heavy, so whatever you think the problem with your movement is, the amarr and gallente logis have the same issue.
-a heavy can move right in your face in a LAV on all maps
-a heavy does not even have to get an LAV in certain complexes

Just to put it out there. I'm not looking to start anything, I'm just a little passionate about my
heavy...

I'm all for more flexability in the suits. All of them. But, if one class is getting a heavy dose of
restriction, shouldn't they all have a similar level of restriction of some sort as well? Not the
same but about the same comparitive level. No other suit have I seen bashed as hard as the
heavy when it comes to trying to break out of that perceived role. Why is that?

I remember that logi sidearm only b.s. I stayed out of it because it seemed well defended against.

MM, jump in man, the more the merrier!

you are simply doing it wrong.

-a brick tanked logi is as slow as a heavy, so whatever you think the problem with your movement is, the amarr and gallente logis have the same issue.
-a heavy can move right in your face in a LAV on all maps
-a heavy does not even have to get an LAV in certain complexes

My 2nd suit is a Gallente, and i don't have the same problems as I do with my heavy suit. i can jump higher than 2 inches for starters. My hitbox isn't the size of an LAV, and my head isn't a magnet for every AR on the map. My suit doesn't need an LAV to get everywhere on some maps. I run slower yes, but let's be real, nothing's as slow as a heavy.

*cough* logi assaults *cough*

I find myself a sad panda CCP seem to be blowing off an important topic, or are at least not getting the point.

Im not going to go into the numbers or arguments about how what does and doesnt do this or that and things. Thats what the many many other threads are doing...

I want to get across that when CCP are looking at the heavy with their critical eye, NOT to do so trying to get them to conform to an unwanted defensive role!
Im sorry if im getting the wrong impression, but any CCP response (and they are few and far between) on the topic of heavies seems to me to be pushing towards this mentality.

Personally i think (along with scouts) the heavy needs some love. That the HMG are restrictive at best.
I may be wrong, but there are a lot of people that are thinking the same, and regardless of your stance on the matter CCP need to have a long hard look at the matter... BUT NOT with this defensive, hiding round the corner, never moves anywhere idea in their heads.

chrome chrome chrome. Let me have a little debate with you friend. You claim that heavies shouldn't or "are not" meant to be in a defensive role. Ok. That's fine so let me counter argue that by saying that the "can" be defensive, and also go over a way or two how they could also be offensive.

1.) you've obviously have never received my nanohive love before. At 70+ HP/s and 140+ if overlapping, my proto triage hives can keep any heavy alive for almost any amount of time. The only real counter to this is overwhelming numbers, or Grenades. Both of which can be handled if you make the enemy fight on your terms, and have superior positioning to them. (grenades cant kill you if there isn't a proper angle, and numbers don't count for sh*t if your fighting in the hot gates).

2.) Now..... only one race of heavies is available right now and that's the amar version. If it follows what the assault suit does, this version should be a balance between shields and armor. Though I would lean towards armor with damage mods personally. The suit in itself is probably going to be slower then most of the other racial heavies. Slower means its less able to get around the battlefield which means you naturally want it to play defensively. Your too slow to out maneuver enemies so place yourself in a position where they out maneuver themselves! (if you get what I mean).

3.) if you want an "offensive" heavy, or more accurately a "shock troop" then I wouldn't hold your breath. That's probably not going to happen until the minmatar or caldari heavies come out. HOWEVER, if your interested in going offensive anyway, I would turn your eyes towards the kinetic catalyzers. If properly fitted you can bring the current amar heavies sprinting speed up to over 7 meters a second (which if you consider the amount of gallente/amar suits these days) is actually faster then most suits out there! This makes the heavy much more maneuverable and would probably assist in your playstyle.

Now I don't know if you wanted this type of response or not, but its the way I think about it when I consider the amar heavies right now. I mean..... heavies in general are 1/4th as flexible as the assault/logistics suits so naturally your going to have limitations in what they can do.

@ChromeBreaker, @Marston VC and friends. I don't understand your concerns. Except I do. But CCP/Shanghai has some concrete mindset that Logis can only be one thing. First they were great. I was topping kill boards for WP or was at worst in the top 4 during Beta. That was shut off because Nobody like losing top slot to no stinking Logi with barely any Kills or Deaths.

Next for me, the Heavies were great fun. My HMG Assault was perfect with Sharpshooter and its Skills near maxed. Shooting Reds at 60-70m was fantastic. Except, CCP/Shanghai says; That is a No-No. Little Mercs cannot have fun, run a Heavy and kick butt. Now they have to be defensive. Only. At 20m or less.

In Uprising Caldari Logis were The Beast. Now they aren't. And CCP/Shanghai will gut them again no doubt because a Logi cannot have so much Shield/Armor and that will mean less CPU/PG. The Devs are never happy until all the SP is spent, unable to be refunded and the Merc feels like they have been ripped off with a bucket of now useless Skills into a Suit that just flat doesn't work. Wow! Perfect! Somehow most forget that LogiBros need to get Kills to get WP. Now some are having to carry a Scanner and get nothing for their trouble except losing WP ... again.

Tanks can be Sniper Rail Tanks, Blaster Brawlers and Missile Monsters. Except CCP/Shanghai wants to completely gut them. And once more an entire group of Mercs will feel ripped off, upset because their SP is wasted, non-refundable and wondering why they have spent all this effort for naught. When they finally drop the new Vehicles they will be frail empty husks that will be like paper (per Dev description). They will only be useful in the very limited concepts that CCP/Shanghai has decided. No other uses will be allowed. Turn on the Modules, attack and Flee! Run away or Die! Yep, sounds like a QQ Kitten Tank. As designed by CCP/Shanghai. They even seem proud of the fact that modules will run out faster. Wow. Fun.

Well, Heavies ... Welcome To The Freaking CCP/Shanghai Club.

You will have no role except what CCP/Shanghai wants you to have.

Don't expect it to get better. It won't.

Why I quit being a heavy. Back in Beta a Heavy took the lead and the led the charge. Now the heavy is a joke compared to its former self. I refuse to be a heavy and want a SP respec, two roles I have speced into and both were gimped by CCP. I was a heavy first and CCP nerfed the role. So I spec into Cal Logi not for the flavor of the month but to see what it is like to run a shield build and it got nerfed. Now I am specing into another role and I am told there is a good chance it is going to be nerfed or changed as well. I am now on the please can I have a respec bandwagon.

I find myself a sad panda CCP seem to be blowing off an important topic, or are at least not getting the point.

Im not going to go into the numbers or arguments about how what does and doesnt do this or that and things. Thats what the many many other threads are doing...

I want to get across that when CCP are looking at the heavy with their critical eye, NOT to do so trying to get them to conform to an unwanted defensive role!
Im sorry if im getting the wrong impression, but any CCP response (and they are few and far between) on the topic of heavies seems to me to be pushing towards this mentality.

Personally i think (along with scouts) the heavy needs some love. That the HMG are restrictive at best.
I may be wrong, but there are a lot of people that are thinking the same, and regardless of your stance on the matter CCP need to have a long hard look at the matter... BUT NOT with this defensive, hiding round the corner, never moves anywhere idea in their heads.

Exile AR is stronger than Boundless HMG, at least in my hands (both on a heavy)

you are simply doing it wrong.

-a brick tanked logi is as slow as a heavy, so whatever you think the problem with your movement is, the amarr and gallente logis have the same issue.
-a heavy can move right in your face in a LAV on all maps
-a heavy does not even have to get an LAV in certain complexes

Someone said my name?

OP, I just described my personal playstyle with the heavy, obviously it's a naturally slower, more armoured dropsuit than the assault. Therefore one of its roles can be circling the point rather than head on assault.

I can envision so many battle tactics using them though that I don't think we have shoehorned the heavy into a single role.

I have seen 2 LLAVS with 3 heavies blast past footslogging old me, with me showing on the point 30 seconds after a brutal slaughter and heavies roaming the perimeter, similar to assault terminators from W40k. The commando is definitely a role that we want to expand on in that regard.

Similarly with dropships deployment, maybe even remote repping the heavies.

Then we have the missing racials, I play Gallente Assault and it's much different from Caldari. I can only presume that the heavy differences will be similar.

Honestly, HMG heavies would be perfectly fine if the HMG just DID MORE EFFING DAMAGE. If I get outgunned by a damn assault with a duvolle in cqc, something is off. Even if TWO duvolles are firing at once. I should be able to solo two AR users in CQC with a Boundless easily. So actually, my two changes here are very simple: HMG damage increase, and small arms damage resistance to heavy suits (you know, like they are supposed to). Basic heavy, sentinel, and commando should resist 10-20%, adv you do 20-35%, and proto is 30-50%.
I think CCP should at least try this out and see how it goes. If everyone complains too much about OP heavies, then I was wrong, fair enough. I don't feel as though I am being wholly unreasonable. Just my two cents.

Honestly, HMG heavies would be perfectly fine if the HMG just DID MORE EFFING DAMAGE. If I get outgunned by a damn assault with a duvolle in cqc, something is off. Even if TWO duvolles are firing at once. I should be able to solo two AR users in CQC with a Boundless easily. So actually, my two changes here are very simple: HMG damage increase, and small arms damage resistance to heavy suits (you know, like they are supposed to). Basic heavy, sentinel, and commando should resist 10-20%, adv you do 20-35%, and proto is 30-50%.
I think CCP should at least try this out and see how it goes. If everyone complains too much about OP heavies, then I was wrong, fair enough. I don't feel as though I am being wholly unreasonable. Just my two cents.

Someone said my name?

OP, I just described my personal playstyle with the heavy, obviously it's a naturally slower, more armoured dropsuit than the assault. Therefore one of its roles can be circling the point rather than head on assault.

I can envision so many battle tactics using them though that I don't think we have shoehorned the heavy into a single role.

I have seen 2 LLAVS with 3 heavies blast past footslogging old me, with me showing on the point 30 seconds after a brutal slaughter and heavies roaming the perimeter, similar to assault terminators from W40k. The commando is definitely a role that we want to expand on in that regard.

Similarly with dropships deployment, maybe even remote repping the heavies.

Then we have the missing racials, I play Gallente Assault and it's much different from Caldari. I can only presume that the heavy differences will be similar.

I have seen 2 LLAVS with 3 heavies blast past footslogging old me, with me showing on the point 30 seconds after a brutal slaughter and heavies roaming the perimeter, similar to assault terminators from W40k. The commando is definitely a role that we want to expand on in that regard.

Then we have the missing racials, I play Gallente Assault and it's much different from Caldari. I can only presume that the heavy differences will be similar.

With hit detection actually working it is far easier for an assault to solo a heavy in cqc we need some sort of resistance hmg heavies should be terrifying and it should take more than 1 person to take us down map layout is also of huge concern now even in the defensive role the points that we have to defend can often be defended equally or better with a tanked out logi

1.) you've obviously have never received my nanohive love before. At 70+ HP/s and 140+ if overlapping, my proto triage hives can keep any heavy alive for almost any amount of time. The only real counter to this is overwhelming numbers, or Grenades. Both of which can be handled if you make the enemy fight on your terms, and have superior positioning to them. (grenades cant kill you if there isn't a proper angle, and numbers don't count for sh*t if your fighting in the hot gates).

Then wade in I shall!



Assults specialisation much to a lot of peoples suprise is meant to be its versatility! An assault can be a chopshopped version of any other suit. It can run a decent scout, but not as good as a scout, it can be a brick tank heavy but not as good as a heavy!!

Logi units need a slight change, which ccp are apparently working on but having trouble with, they plan to lower pg/cpu on the suits but give bonuses to eq fitting costs, that way they can't out tank! But once again logistics is a diverse roll. As are they all!

A sentinel is designed for defence apparently, but what is a defensive role?
Is it guard a null cannon?
Is it tail end charlie?
Maybe its area denial and suppression?

The heavy is what you make lf it, but it should not be alone wolf gear, no suit should be!

It just so happens that the suit lends itself to places with good cover! When bubble sheilds are released and triage repair tools aremore useful, heavies will see more time on the frontline!

oO

How is it that the armor repairer on a f***ing nanohive is 14x better than the Prototype Armor Repairers I put on my suit? I put 4 on there, and that's only a piddly 25 HP/s. THATS FOUR F***ING SLOTS! Still this nanohive is 3x more effective, and it restocks ammo.

Want to make Amarr heavies scary again. Give us the ability to repair our god d***ed armor. I have 1000 armor HP and I have to fit 4x Proto armor repairers to get the shield repair rate that comes (for free) on all suits. 1 Proto repairer takes almost 4 minutes to repair me to full.

And yet a freaking nanohive has 70 HP/s repair on it. Preposterous.

Someone said my name?

OP, I just described my personal playstyle with the heavy, obviously it's a naturally slower, more armoured dropsuit than the assault. Therefore one of its roles can be circling the point rather than head on assault.

I can envision so many battle tactics using them though that I don't think we have shoehorned the heavy into a single role.

I have seen 2 LLAVS with 3 heavies blast past footslogging old me, with me showing on the point 30 seconds after a brutal slaughter and heavies roaming the perimeter, similar to assault terminators from W40k. The commando is definitely a role that we want to expand on in that regard.

Similarly with dropships deployment, maybe even remote repping the heavies.

Then we have the missing racials, I play Gallente Assault and it's much different from Caldari. I can only presume that the heavy differences will be similar.

If you make heavies capable of easily taking on multiple opponents, what you will end up with in matches is 5 heavies surrounding an objective being absolutely untouchable. It's a pretty good tactic already, especially with the inside objectives like the underground one in the Research Facility.

Someone said my name?

OP, I just described my personal playstyle with the heavy, obviously it's a naturally slower, more armoured dropsuit than the assault. Therefore one of its roles can be circling the point rather than head on assault.

I can envision so many battle tactics using them though that I don't think we have shoehorned the heavy into a single role.

I have seen 2 LLAVS with 3 heavies blast past footslogging old me, with me showing on the point 30 seconds after a brutal slaughter and heavies roaming the perimeter, similar to assault terminators from W40k. The commando is definitely a role that we want to expand on in that regard.

Similarly with dropships deployment, maybe even remote repping the heavies.

Then we have the missing racials, I play Gallente Assault and it's much different from Caldari. I can only presume that the heavy differences will be similar.

Someone said my name?

OP, I just described my personal playstyle with the heavy, obviously it's a naturally slower, more armoured dropsuit than the assault. Therefore one of its roles can be circling the point rather than head on assault.

I can envision so many battle tactics using them though that I don't think we have shoehorned the heavy into a single role.

I have seen 2 LLAVS with 3 heavies blast past footslogging old me, with me showing on the point 30 seconds after a brutal slaughter and heavies roaming the perimeter, similar to assault terminators from W40k. The commando is definitely a role that we want to expand on in that regard.

Similarly with dropships deployment, maybe even remote repping the heavies.

Then we have the missing racials, I play Gallente Assault and it's much different from Caldari. I can only presume that the heavy differences will be similar.

Only time a heavy is OP when we are using 1 of 2 heavy weapons given to us the forge. Even then its so many drawbacks to using it. Ill continue to play heavies even though they are gimped. Even with max skills in heavy running max defense, i still get creamed by a assault in cqc. just takes him a tad longer since my hmg is gimped. heavys are nothing but a speed bump to the objective. Anyone else say different doesn't play PC and just pubes stomp all day which is NOT a clear indication of the game. Just shows how imbalanced it is.

Can it be fixed? Sure but does CCP have the balls to do it. I dunno. No matter what CCP does players will QQ but they will also adapt. Balance it now before the player base is completely gone. Your time is ticking CCP with PS4 coming out. Unless you have something hidden in your sleeve for ps4 it doesn't look good. Even then, not everyone has the cash to jump to the ps4 with all its pretty features. You have sold the community a free game with micro transactions. Please stop taking it in the chin and do something.


I like this game, i really do. I congratulate you on this being the first game to draw me to the console. It may be my last though.

Thats right CCP, just because you designed the suit for a certain play style it shouldnt be that way and you need to cater to guys who want to kick in doors with 1k + ehp and kill from 60 meters away

Seriously though thats what its designed for, not everyone gets to be in the spear head and if you want to go assaulting guys then maybe wear an assault suit while you do it

Im not saying what should be done, but designing the heavy with ONE playstyle in mind is a bad thing yes?

You mean like Caldari logis with Duvolle assault rifles?



Heavies are also "designed to with stand concentrated small arms fire". so, why can a milita AR burn through a heavy in 2.2 seconds?

Assault suits are not designed to be logistics. So why can they carry equipment? Assaults are not designed to have as much ehp as a heavy, so why do caldari assaults and gallente assaults have ehp higher than heavies?
ARs are not supposed to supress like HMGs... so why are they better at suppresion than HMGs?

I mean really. CCP should remove heavy suits, scouts suits and logi suits. and let everyone be assault. Because honestly, you can do everything better with an assault.

with a galente assault you can speed tank and be faster than a scout, you can easily tank harder than a heavy with 3 times the speed with assault suits...
you can carry equipment like logi suits so whats the point.

there isnt enough PG/CPU to use up three slots of equipment on a logi suit anyway because it eats up so much PG.

Thats right CCP, just because you designed the suit for a certain play style

You must not understand that that's what the AMarr heavy's designed around. I'm sure the spear headers would be Winmatar or Gallente.

I find myself a sad panda CCP seem to be blowing off an important topic, or are at least not getting the point.

Im not going to go into the numbers or arguments about how what does and doesnt do this or that and things. Thats what the many many other threads are doing...

I want to get across that when CCP are looking at the heavy with their critical eye, NOT to do so trying to get them to conform to an unwanted defensive role!
Im sorry if im getting the wrong impression, but any CCP response (and they are few and far between) on the topic of heavies seems to me to be pushing towards this mentality.

Personally i think (along with scouts) the heavy needs some love. That the HMG are restrictive at best.
I may be wrong, but there are a lot of people that are thinking the same, and regardless of your stance on the matter CCP need to have a long hard look at the matter... BUT NOT with this defensive, hiding round the corner, never moves anywhere idea in their heads.

Honestly, HMG heavies would be perfectly fine if the HMG just DID MORE EFFING DAMAGE. If I get outgunned by a damn assault with a duvolle in cqc, something is off. Even if TWO duvolles are firing at once. I should be able to solo two AR users in CQC with a Boundless easily. So actually, my two changes here are very simple: HMG damage increase, and small arms damage resistance to heavy suits (you know, like they are supposed to). Basic heavy, sentinel, and commando should resist 10-20%, adv you do 20-35%, and proto is 30-50%.
I think CCP should at least try this out and see how it goes. If everyone complains too much about OP heavies, then I was wrong, fair enough. I don't feel as though I am being wholly unreasonable. Just my two cents.

Slow-moving units have no place as shock troops. It's more common sense than just the opinion of CCP.

Someone said my name?

OP, I just described my personal playstyle with the heavy, obviously it's a naturally slower, more armoured dropsuit than the assault. Therefore one of its roles can be circling the point rather than head on assault.

I can envision so many battle tactics using them though that I don't think we have shoehorned the heavy into a single role.

I have seen 2 LLAVS with 3 heavies blast past footslogging old me, with me showing on the point 30 seconds after a brutal slaughter and heavies roaming the perimeter, similar to assault terminators from W40k. The commando is definitely a role that we want to expand on in that regard.

Similarly with dropships deployment, maybe even remote repping the heavies.

Then we have the missing racials, I play Gallente Assault and it's much different from Caldari. I can only presume that the heavy differences will be similar.

I mean really. CCP should remove heavy suits, scouts suits and logi suits. and let everyone be assault. Because honestly, you can do everything better with an assault.

It can be done. Just change the L slot into an H slot on the Assault Suits, fiddle with heavy weapons stats a bit, spreadsheet the Heavy DS SP back, and we're set. It would save game development resources and the seemingly impossible suit balance issues.

I can envision so many battle tactics using them though that I don't think we have shoehorned the heavy into a single role.

I have seen 2 LLAVS with 3 heavies blast past footslogging old me, with me showing on the point 30 seconds after a brutal slaughter and heavies roaming the perimeter, similar to assault terminators from W40k. The commando is definitely a role that we want to expand on in that regard.

Similarly with dropships deployment, maybe even remote repping the heavies.

Then we have the missing racials, I play Gallente Assault and it's much different from Caldari. I can only presume that the heavy differences will be similar.

Slow-moving units have no place as shock troops. It's more common sense than just the opinion of CCP.

Ooo my post got Dev'd

What you say i completely understand, and if you can make Terminator Heavies i may infact come to fanfest give you a hug and buy you a very large beverage of your choice.
Defensive play for a heavy is very strong, but its restrictive, and using LAV's all the time isnt practical.

The problem is apart from LAV'ing none of this has happened yet We dont have the racials, or dropships, or killer commando's.
We're stuck with our short range HMG on a slow moving brick, that can get out dps'd, out ranged, out maneuverer and out tanked by other suits. (all at once)

Confirm (hint?) to us that with the other racials your going to open up the field, and not pin us down to hiding around objectives Or at least get rid of this mentality that heavies are "meant" to be defensive.


(note: The dropships we have now, you cannot see out of as a passenger, flings you half a mile if its even slightly moving, remote repping will remove any resembalance to a tank it already doesnt have, and if it stays still gets pwned by a sneeze, not particularly practical for a rapid incursion)

So, what you're basically saying is "heavies should just HTFU and wait for all racial heavy dropsuits and weapons to come out"?

I mean, that would be fine if "The Event" is about to happen anytime soon. I'm probably just wild-guessing here, but judging from all the buzz on the forums (and datadump mining), next weapons to be released are in the light/sidearm category - as if they aren't overpopulated already (compared to heavy arsenal at least). This means that heavies probably won't be getting any love in the next few months.

You do realize that current game balance is already biased toward medium dropsuits? This is a problem. It eliminates options. Fewer options means less variety. Less variety means less fun. Less fun means fewer people playing the game. Surely, this isn't what CCP is aiming for.

I'm sure when you look at the numbers, heavies have dropped a substantial amount. I remember seeing 4-5 heavies in Chromosome every match. Now? I'll be lucky to see 1. Even me, a dedicated heavy for my team switched to assault because I'm more useful and versatile that way.

The class is so limited that it's not even worth using anymore.

Rather more heavies tbh...

Running heavies with LAVs is even more expensive now because now you have to buy a car to drive around in and then get instant killed by a forgun or swamrs or a packed AV nade.

and even if you dnt, people will see you vehicle a mile away and be well prepared.

but, the most important thing is this. If a suit NEEDS some peice of equipment in order to work properly its broken. Assaults don't need anything, logi's don't need anything to function properly. and they can vary as much as they like.