I wouldn't hold your breath on any of those

~Racial variants of all vehicles.
~New turret types
~A respec for vehicle users
~Dropship cloaking
~A new vehicle type

~The promise that with each introduction of new racial variants, partial respecs will be offered since CCP decided to release Dust without over half of it's content.


These would be a good reason for having to wait another month.

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

a respec for vehicle users? you tell me since youve done respecs before... whats the problem now? your hands cramped or something for falling over?

No clue, but how many man hours are in one and a half years, you know, the amount of time it took to fix the PG on Logi dropships?

or how about after openly admitting that armor reps for vehicles had a bug that allowed them to rep three times as much as theyre supposed? you still havent fixed that lol

a respec for vehicle users? you tell me since youve done respecs before... whats the problem now? your hands cramped or something for falling over?

or how about after openly admitting that armor reps for vehicles had a bug that allowed them to rep three times as much as theyre supposed? you still havent fixed that lol

Their never coming out, I gave up hoping, Vehicles have needed somthing for ages and it gets delayed, yet if it was a nerf they'd e all over that ****

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

~The promise that with each introduction of new racial variants, partial respecs will be offered since CCP decided to release Dust without over half of it's content.

Don't need that. Just save your SP.

Don't need that. Just save your SP.

A couple of days max. Because at this point I'm just sick and tired of waiting, and really don't give a **** anymore. Here look I'll demonstrate:

"New turret types":

Minmatar small turret:

Take three small missile turrets and scale them down in size. Angle them upward. Attach them to the top of one turret stand. Take the mass driver projectile animation bend the arc on the projectile flight path and extend the flight time. Paint the whole thing redish brown. Specs are eyeballed, best ballpark. The community can play test it for us. Simple numerical modifications can be made in the following several days after release.

BLAM!!!! Minmatar small artillery turret.

Minmatar large turret:

Take the large missile turret and angle the turret upward. Take the animation from the massdriver projectile and scale up the size a little. Do the same as above with the projectile flight path. Paint the thing redish brown. Eyeballed stats.

BLAM!!!!-áMinmatar large artillery turret.

Amarr small turret:

Combine a blaster turret and the animation from the laser rifle. Scale the laser animation up in size a bit. Paint the whole thing gold. Eyeballed stats.

BLAM!!!! Amarr laser turret.

Amarr large turret:

Same as above.

BLAM!!!! Done.

"A respec for vehicle users":

We've already seen how this works. Start immediately.

BLAM!!!! Done.

"Dropship cloaking":

Module is activated dropship animation is removed. Nothing fancy just gone. Specs are eyeballed.

BLAM!!!! Dropship cloaking. Done!

"A new vehicle type":

Speeder:

Take the animation from the LAV. Split the animation down the center. Cut roughly one meter from the center side of each half. Reattach both halves. Take the animation, and, -áfrom front to rear end, squish the animation together slightly (should only have two wheels after it is done). Stats are eyeballed.

BLAM!!!! Speeders.

Race variants:

Take the Gallente stuff (tanks, LAVs, speeders) and paint it gold. All stats are eyeballed for community testing.

BLAM!!!! Amarr suff.

Take the Caldari stuff and paint it redish brown. Copy and past some of the art from the Minmatar medium frame dropsuit (like canisters and all that other crap, scale them up a bit) and slap that stuff onto the Cal vehicles.-áAll stats are eyeballed for community testing.

BLAM!!!! Minmatar stuff.

BLAM!!!! Done!!!!

You guys need interns... without interns an office can't operate. it reduces office stress . Just don't end up like this guy

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you expect people to be civil in waiting for things promised months ago?

Out of curiosity, how long do you expect people to wait around while you get your house in order?

Out of curiosity, does CCP get some sort of stat when someone biomasses their character?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

If I had to guess?

30,000 Man Hours for One Outpost.

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Holy **** at these responses.

CCP, put the entire vehicle rebalancing back on the shelf and bust out other developments.

These entitled little ungrateful pricks don't deserve balanced vehicles.

For fucks sake.

How about we take whatever weapon and suit you use, nerf it for 6 months, then tell you that we are going to balance it next month. Then, two weeks before, we pull the rug out and say enjoy another couple of weeks of being UP, we don't give a ****.

Would you be happy?

How about if you told the developer you really wanted to be involved in giving them feedback, they said "No, we got this" and then 6 weeks later say, "We shat the bed, you guys want to give us feedback now?"

Would you be content?

I'm going to be honest. That is a weak unfair thing to say (assuming you have sarcasm behind it). You have no right to be dishing out sarcasm this game is nothing more then mediocre (hype/promises mean nothing).

Also to answer your question i've never seen a game with so little progress from beta to release. I'll be honest to say i don't know but its not like efficiency is a strong point for you guys.

Dont insult the little playerbase you have left.

Holy **** at these responses.

CCP, put the entire vehicle rebalancing back on the shelf and bust out other developments.

These entitled little ungrateful pricks don't deserve balanced vehicles.

For fucks sake.

Edit - BTW, what i said is an insult. Asking ONE guy a legit question for "expecting" thousands of hours of manpower of code isn't a ******* insult. It's called being polite. Go ******* yell at your mommy to raise you better if you can't handle a polite response from someone.

Lol@theseresponses. A bunch of children who probably don't know the first thing about game development trying to act like designers.

Seriously guys, the last thing we need is for CCP to rush any more content. No, you're not allowed to be OP again.

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Wow, what? FoxFour asked the OP a simple question because it's clear he had seriously unrealistic expectations for what he genuinely believed could be accomplished in a 1-2 month period given the delay and you define that as "insulting the little playerbase they have left"? What the hell? There's a clear disconnect between what the players THINK is easy peazy content that the developers can pop out whenever they want and what's realistically able to be accomplished given man hours / resource allocation and Fox is trying to highlight that fact.

I'm sorry if the truth of things is "weak" and "unfair".

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

thousands. as for respecs I have no idea how you even begin to code that...

Hmm, didn't the ships, suits, etc. have concept art and some modeling done back at fanfest? If so, then the path to completion is something more like finishing up the modeling and the design element that is "stats/balance". The weapons were apparently usable back in fanfest (referring to the missing rifles here), as the dev talked about how nice they looked and how they felt to play with. That was... May?

So, I would think the amount of man-hours for the missing rifles/pistols specifically (if they already had models and were being play-tested) would be relatively small; it's more a matter of balance, and the theoretical role/range profile/etc. was already talked about in a blog since then. Fanfest was over 4 months ago now.

So, on that logic, the weapons should've have already been released if they were already at the point of being tested and having models back then. It makes you wonder on that point if they just withhold things for balancing purposes, since if they don't really get balanced till after being released to us, it might be quicker to have us in on that element.

The vehicles/suits that are missing weren't modeled/playable at the time of fanfest. So, that's basically 2 missing dropships, 2 missing havs, 2 missing lavs, 2 missing light suits, and 3 missing heavy suits (ignore things like missing MCCs, RDVs, etc. for the moment since those are more cosmetic and impact player experience to a lesser degree.). So, of 11 missing models as of four months ago, how are finished now? Presumably the people making maps aren't the same ones making these models.

I dont see how CCP can be so slow at making single items. Sure maps, and all that will take a long time, but single items themselves take very VERY little. I worked on a dev team and we used the unreal engine (before we switched). It took us (a four man team) about 8 hours to make a new weapon. Now this is without skill coding and such but still.

Really, do tell, I wanna hear the lot!!

We made a chainsaw and I spend 6 hours cutting threw different body parts of cows to get the right sound files for it. It was enjoyable.

And what this was a fully functional weapon, was implementable into your game?
I mean me and a few guys took 80 hours to make a bb gun, with unlimited ammo, and no reload!

I took it as a sarcastic remark.

Yep, we did this a lot, we'd be play testing and one of us would say "hey, know what weapon I'd like to see in game" then we spent a day or two straight working on it, adding it and then play testing the next day. God I miss those guys, RIP Dave. ; __ ;

Well screw my lecturer then ill take lessons from you, whats your game called was it ever released!?

Was called Epic Bar Fight and was never released, our programmer Dave passed away from cancer and we fell apart after that. Was a small indie game, first person melee combat. I was the sound tech / engineer.

Lol@theseresponses. A bunch of children who probably don't know the first thing about game development trying to act like designers.

Seriously guys, the last thing we need is for CCP to rush any more content. No, you're not allowed to be OP again.

Aah!

Hmm, didn't the ships, suits, etc. have concept art and some modeling done back at fanfest? If so, then the path to completion is something more like finishing up the modeling and the design element that is "stats/balance". The weapons were apparently usable back in fanfest (referring to the missing rifles here), as the dev talked about how nice they looked and how they felt to play with. That was... May?

So, I would think the amount of man-hours for the missing rifles/pistols specifically (if they already had models and were being play-tested) would be relatively small; it's more a matter of balance, and the theoretical role/range profile/etc. was already talked about in a blog since then. Fanfest was over 4 months ago now.

So, on that logic, the weapons should've have already been released if they were already at the point of being tested and having models back then. It makes you wonder on that point if they just withhold things for balancing purposes, since if they don't really get balanced till after being released to us, it might be quicker to have us in on that element.

The vehicles/suits that are missing weren't modeled/playable at the time of fanfest. So, that's basically 2 missing dropships, 2 missing havs, 2 missing lavs, 2 missing light suits, and 3 missing heavy suits (ignore things like missing MCCs, RDVs, etc. for the moment since those are more cosmetic and impact player experience to a lesser degree.). So, of 11 missing models as of four months ago, how are finished now? Presumably the people making maps aren't the same ones making these models.

I feel evil for saying, but there is not 50k players playing dust at once. That is total in EVE universe (Eve Online and Dust) There's usually only 10% of that number on dust. That's why we worry.

Ones that are play tested are shells, they miss alot of coding, le reload animation, hip, to scope, scope to hip, how the bullets look, lighging effects from the gun, lighting on the gun, finalised stats, being added to infantry system being worked into current objects, all take a lot of time!!

Toxic community sucks

I don't think it takes 4 months though.

Mass Effect 3 had a multiplayer mode with its own little dev team, right? It was just a side-mode to a larger game, and they had a separate much smaller team to work on that. Mass Effect 3 also uses the Unreal Engine, so modeling/rendering, etc. is similar. Both are also online shooters.

Mass Effect 3 launched in March of that year.

Resurgence expansion launched in April (1 month later):
2 new maps, 6 more playable characters, 3 new weapons, 4 new consumable items

the Rebellion expansion launched that May for it (2 months later):
2 new maps, 3 new weapons, 6 new playable characters, new equipment slot, new game objective/mode

Earth was released in July (4 months later):
3 new maps, 3 new weapons, 6 more playable characters, 5 weapon mods, 11 gear upgrades, new objective/mode, new difficultly level

Retaliation was released in October (7 months later):
6 variant maps add environmental conditions changing the nature of battle, 16 new characters, 3 weapons, a new enemy faction, 3 new ammo types, 5 new types of gear

Reckoning was released in February (11 months later):
6 more characters, 7 weapons, 5 weapon mods, 2 gear upgrades

These expansions included newly modeled/animated/rendered/voiced/etc. weapons, characters (player models), and maps. Within 1 month of release 3 weapons modeled, animated, etc. and integrated with all prior existing models, and the new 6 characters. In two months, 3 more weapons, 6 more characters, 2 more maps, and in 4 months, another 3 weapons, 6 characters, etc.

All of this happened at the same time as weapons being balanced (balance was tweaked weekly), bug fixes, gameplay mode expansion, and adding new maps.

So, in 4 months, that's 7 maps, 9 weapons, and 18 characters (about 9 actually different models, though you can adjust appearance on them) aside from the other stuff they did. The weapons were also moddable (you can add things like barrel extensions and scopes that visually change the weapon).

In 4 months in Dust, (since Fanfest had the weapons playable) we've seen ZERO new suits, ZERO new weapons, and some new maps.

It takes time to model and animate things, but as another dev team shows using the same engine - it doesn't take that long.

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Oh wow i did know that. Wel it explaines why i see the same people so much in matches.

Actually, we're currently topping out at just over 3k concurrent users:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust

In case you didn't notice, he just made a statement that would actually speak to the effectiveness of the new matchmaking system, since it would of course be trying to put him in battles with people of his skill level.

But he blames it on declining player count.

lul

Actually, we're currently topping out at just over 3k concurrent users:

http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust

Yes true, but also consider
larger dev team
Many characters came from pre-exsisting models
Most weapons used were infact already developed
majority of maps were 1 player arenas

so really your looking at 3maps, 4 weapons, 2 characters
and then people slated it because pistols were too powerful
despite the fact it was co op!

A couple of days max. Because at this point I'm just sick and tired of waiting, and really don't give a **** anymore. Here look I'll demonstrate:

"New turret types":

Minmatar small turret:

Take three small missile turrets and scale them down in size. Angle them upward. Attach them to the top of one turret stand. Take the mass driver projectile animation bend the arc on the projectile flight path and extend the flight time. Paint the whole thing redish brown. Specs are eyeballed, best ballpark. The community can play test it for us. Simple numerical modifications can be made in the following several days after release.

BLAM!!!! Minmatar small artillery turret.

Minmatar large turret:

Take the large missile turret and angle the turret upward. Take the animation from the massdriver projectile and scale up the size a little. Do the same as above with the projectile flight path. Paint the thing redish brown. Eyeballed stats.

BLAM!!!!-áMinmatar large artillery turret.

Amarr small turret:

Combine a blaster turret and the animation from the laser rifle. Scale the laser animation up in size a bit. Paint the whole thing gold. Eyeballed stats.

BLAM!!!! Amarr laser turret.

Amarr large turret:

Same as above.

BLAM!!!! Done.

"A respec for vehicle users":

We've already seen how this works. Start immediately.

BLAM!!!! Done.

"Dropship cloaking":

Module is activated dropship animation is removed. Nothing fancy just gone. Specs are eyeballed.

BLAM!!!! Dropship cloaking. Done!

"A new vehicle type":

Speeder:

Take the animation from the LAV. Split the animation down the center. Cut roughly one meter from the center side of each half. Reattach both halves. Take the animation, and, -áfrom front to rear end, squish the animation together slightly (should only have two wheels after it is done). Stats are eyeballed.

BLAM!!!! Speeders.

Race variants:

Take the Gallente stuff (tanks, LAVs, speeders) and paint it gold. All stats are eyeballed for community testing.

BLAM!!!! Amarr suff.

Take the Caldari stuff and paint it redish brown. Copy and past some of the art from the Minmatar medium frame dropsuit (like canisters and all that other crap, scale them up a bit) and slap that stuff onto the Cal vehicles.-áAll stats are eyeballed for community testing.

BLAM!!!! Minmatar stuff.

BLAM!!!! Done!!!!

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Wowza yeah sarcasm from a dev thats what we need right now at this point of the game.
A dev in this point in the game has no right to use sarcasm on its players.
Dont forget 50k players is childsplay compared to the few mil that play either CoD or BF.
Thank god you have people that play this game, so you better take care of the little playerbase you got.

~Racial variants of all vehicles.
~New turret types
~A respec for vehicle users
~Dropship cloaking
~A new vehicle type

~The promise that with each introduction of new racial variants, partial respecs will be offered since CCP decided to release Dust without over half of it's content.


These would be a good reason for having to wait another month.

OP is asking for too much.
but still 1.6 better have more **** than 1.5 was offering.

I'm starting to get a little put off by this game. Which, in all my time I've just been frustrated. Never put off

That's why I said, "On and around the vehicle update." I also would add the pilot suit to that list. Also, since you birng it up, why haven't the devs been working on them?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

~Racial variants of all vehicles.
~New turret types
~A respec for vehicle users
~Dropship cloaking
~A new vehicle type

~The promise that with each introduction of new racial variants, partial respecs will be offered since CCP decided to release Dust without over half of it's content.

These would be a good reason for having to wait another month.

Mostly because they have no idea what they want to do with vehicles and by extension pilot suits.

I agree with whoever said that Dust needs some new content fast, even unbalanced or buggy ("since that's how we get it anyways"), before the game dries out anymore.

Basically the risk of releasing unpolished content, at this point, does not out weigh the risk of releasing nothing. And again, it'll come out that way anyhow so why not speed up that process and include us in it earlier.

a respec for vehicle users? you tell me since youve done respecs before... whats the problem now? your hands cramped or something for falling over?

if anything, there should be a respec for everyone. there were so many changes, it would just be fair (or atleast a respc when all racial suits, weapons and vehicles are ingame)

Would like to point out that CCP said no respecs, so respecs will take 0hrs cause you ain't getting one!

If you have to ask that question, you need a bigger budget.

If you think that throwing more money at a coding problem will make it happen faster you need to get the f*** out of IT.

Listen, I am a software developer. I work on applications for oil companies, brokerage firms and large energy companies with project budgets larger than CCP's annual income. Coding accounts for <40% of our time. Most of it is is investigation, design, approval, mockup, approval, (then coding), then unit tests, then fixing, then unit tests again, then QA pass, then staging release, then more QA tests, then full integration tests, then production release planning, then the production mock release, then (finally) the production release.

They are on a 1 month agile release cycle which means 1 week of investigation, design, approval. Then a 2 week sprint of coding. Then 1 week of QA, integration testing and release. And that's if everything works out perfectly. If they find a nasty bug then they miss the release and make it to the next one.

Throwing money at a problem helps to bring on more resources to spread out work. But suddenly adding 10 more programmers wont speed things up, in fact (most times) it slows things down as you need to dedicate man hours to training the new resources and deal with the bugs they will introduce due to not being familiar with the code. Eventually they will get up to speed, but even then you'll probably run into the problem of "too many hands in the cookie jar" which causes you to have to divvy up tasks into micro-projects which causes a nightmare with code merges / task management.


- You yell when CCP doesn't tell you what's coming in the next patch.

- Then when they do tell you whats coming you yell when it's delayed due to it being buggy and scream "release it anyway".

- Then when they do release it anyway you yell that they don't know what they're doing and the new feature is broken and shouldn't have been released.

- Then they don't tell you **** and you yell but they ignore you because no matter what they do you're going to yell.


So for everyone commenting here who doesn't work as a programmer, shut up. I don't come into your workplace and tell you how to flip burgers faster...

If you think that throwing more money at a coding problem will make it happen faster you need to get the f*** out of IT.

Listen, I am a software developer. I work on applications for oil companies, brokerage firms and large energy companies with project budgets larger than CCP's annual income. Coding accounts for <40% of our time. Most of it is is investigation, design, approval, mockup, approval, (then coding), then unit tests, then fixing, then unit tests again, then QA pass, then staging release, then more QA tests, then full integration tests, then production release planning, then the production mock release, then (finally) the production release.

They are on a 1 month agile release cycle which means 1 week of investigation, design, approval. Then a 2 week sprint of coding. Then 1 week of QA, integration testing and release. And that's if everything works out perfectly. If they find a nasty bug then they miss the release and make it to the next one.

Throwing money at a problem helps to bring on more resources to spread out work. But suddenly adding 10 more programmers wont speed things up, in fact (most times) it slows things down as you need to dedicate man hours to training the new resources and deal with the bugs they will introduce due to not being familiar with the code. Eventually they will get up to speed, but even then you'll probably run into the problem of "too many hands in the cookie jar" which causes you to have to divvy up tasks into micro-projects which causes a nightmare with code merges / task management.


- You yell when CCP doesn't tell you what's coming in the next patch.

- Then when they do tell you whats coming you yell when it's delayed due to it being buggy and scream "release it anyway".

- Then when they do release it anyway you yell that they don't know what they're doing and the new feature is broken and shouldn't have been released.

- Then they don't tell you **** and you yell but they ignore you because no matter what they do you're going to yell.


So for everyone commenting here who doesn't work as a programmer, shut up. I don't come into your workplace and tell you how to flip burgers faster...

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

[quote=Severus Smith]I am studying to be a programmer, how do I go about getting into the kind of work you are doing?

[quote=Nguruthos IX]~Racial variants of all vehicles.
~New turret types
~A respec for vehicle users
~Dropship cloaking
~A new vehicle type

~The promise that with each introduction of new racial variants, partial respecs will be offered since CCP decided to release Dust without over half of it's content.


These would be a good reason for having to wait another month.

Well you know, all of those things could be possibly... if they didn't have just one man working on each category (e.g. vehicles, maps, weapons, dropsuits, etc.).
If CCP had a proper team with multiple members working on each, production of updates could speed up greatly.

Get a degree, or a bunch of certifications (degree for large companies, their HR departments will ignore your resume without one). Learn .NET MVC which is what is in demand right now, and consider adding emphasis on javascript libraries like JQuery, Breeze, Durandal and Knockout. Those are getting big, but could also bubble and die like previous web technologies (cough cough Silverlight). DB knowledge in SQL Server and Oracle always helps.

I am lucky and work in Houston, TX which isn't really known as a "Tech City". However, since we have a lot of the big oil / energy companies here (and more keep coming) there's as large amount of demand for software developers to overhaul their systems and reduce costs. Look for places like that to move to. Where demand for developers is growing quickly but supply is low. Avoid places like Silicon Valley because everyone and their mother who wants to be in software goes there (like Hollywood for actors and New York for MBAs). So you're fighting a lot of competition (but it could pay off handsomely).

Awsome, Im currently getting a degree, got 2nd class (2% of a 1st) last year, am doing mysql, and javascript.
Learning .NET MVC next year conveniently, and have a Cisco CCNA1 qualification already!!

I'm aiming to get into the inhouse development team forba larger corporation, where each soultion has its own intricate little factors!!

Good work, sounds like you have got a plan.

Study these design patterns. RIght now they may not help if concepts such as Interfaces, Abstract Classes, or the difference between Client and Server code are unknown to you (took me awhile). But once you get those concepts down these design patterns help land you big jobs (interviewers love to ask about the Factory Pattern or how to implement a Singleton) and make things a lot easier.

whatever you do dont waste your time listening to this guy dust does not need new vehicles it needs whats here to be fixed you cannot add things into a broken foundation and expect them to work. why on earth would ccp waste their time providing new vehicles and turret types when what we have is so destroyed. they need to sit down and dedicate they're time to eradicating blams blasphemy from new eden. add new vehicles, new turret types what are you thinking pfft you should just quit dust

don't really care.

out of curiosity how many wasted man hours have been spent on NOT fixing the previous man hours spent 'fixing' broken areas of this game?

the entire concept of required development time for 'NEW' content is just beyond me.

the man hours already spent in previous 'new' content or the time already spent addressing 'issues' I would hope would be a multiplier of the time required for new content, cause lets face it, it takes months to 'fix' something and many things STILL have not been addressed that have been around since May (and in some cases longer...)

wouldn't recommend opening this rabbit hole..

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

If you think that throwing more money at a coding problem will make it happen faster you need to get the f*** out of IT.

Listen, I am a software developer. I work on applications for oil companies, brokerage firms and large energy companies with project budgets larger than CCP's annual income. Coding accounts for <40% of our time. Most of it is is investigation, design, approval, mockup, approval, (then coding), then unit tests, then fixing, then unit tests again, then QA pass, then staging release, then more QA tests, then full integration tests, then production release planning, then the production mock release, then (finally) the production release.

They are on a 1 month agile release cycle which means 1 week of investigation, design, approval. Then a 2 week sprint of coding. Then 1 week of QA, integration testing and release. And that's if everything works out perfectly. If they find a nasty bug then they miss the release and make it to the next one.

Throwing money at a problem helps to bring on more resources to spread out work. But suddenly adding 10 more programmers wont speed things up, in fact (most times) it slows things down as you need to dedicate man hours to training the new resources and deal with the bugs they will introduce due to not being familiar with the code. Eventually they will get up to speed, but even then you'll probably run into the problem of "too many hands in the cookie jar" which causes you to have to divvy up tasks into micro-projects which causes a nightmare with code merges / task management.


- You yell when CCP doesn't tell you what's coming in the next patch.

- Then when they do tell you whats coming you yell when it's delayed due to it being buggy and scream "release it anyway".

- Then when they do release it anyway you yell that they don't know what they're doing and the new feature is broken and shouldn't have been released.

- Then they don't tell you **** and you yell but they ignore you because no matter what they do you're going to yell.


So for everyone commenting here who doesn't work as a programmer, shut up. I don't come into your workplace and tell you how to flip burgers faster...

It's not our job to figure out the man hours on this ... thats yours...everybody just wants you guys to keep your word....I'm A/V so i could care less what happens with the tanks..but you guys...CCP...talked up the viehicle 1.5 patch and everybody just jumped on your bandwagon...you guys built up everybody for this let down....just like your dated weekly forum dev updates post..that is religously late 5-10 days..actually often started with some sort of week excuse about a headache or a dog eating it or something...

There are far too many problems with this game that need to be adressed like-

Dying when you jump out of a dropship
the squads are super messed up, i havnt even seen a warroom in 2 days and played in matches that have 16 people each side with no squad anywhere
when in a tank you cant render crap from 20 meters
my 15 million sp character does about the same as my free militia alt
at least a half dozen glitch spots on the map where snipers sit every match that you cant hit
1 in 3 matches for me i end up playing nobody

Do i need to go on...there are tons more...this is all more important than you having a shiney proto tank and some racial bounses.....


And for the record....I feel like this comment from the Dev was a little rude...I might be the only one but, I feel that we are customers and you are selling a service..I know its hard sometimes but ...I manage a restaurant and If a guest asked me where his steak was, and i responded "do you know how long it takes to cook'? I would get fired....exspeacially if i told him it would take 10 minuites and he asked me 10 minuites later..like this senario

Smile and say sorry...even if you dont mean it...thats buisness..But I'm good t my job..everybody is not so lucky

You'll never see me complaining about something that gets added and "shouldn't have been released yet". Just saying. I think the majority of people are with me, that the risk of buggy or unpolished content is not nearly as bad as stagnation at this point. I'm not saying game crashing, PS3 melting bugs are okay, but there is a certain balance here where perfection is not worth the wait.

What if they had chosen not to release 1.4 because of the squad deployment bug? Imagining that they knew about it to some degree, would waiting till yesterday to release patch 1.4 really have been worth it? Or more likely another couple days to match their downtime schedules. I'd say probably not.

Get a degree, or a bunch of certifications (degree for large companies, their HR departments will ignore your resume without one). Learn .NET MVC which is what is in demand right now, and consider adding emphasis on javascript libraries like JQuery, Breeze, Durandal and Knockout. Those are getting big, but could also bubble and die like previous web technologies (cough cough Silverlight). DB knowledge in SQL Server and Oracle always helps.

I am lucky and work in Houston, TX which isn't really known as a "Tech City". However, since we have a lot of the big oil / energy companies here (and more keep coming) there's as large amount of demand for software developers to overhaul their systems and reduce costs. Look for places like that to move to. Where demand for developers is growing quickly but supply is low. Avoid places like Silicon Valley because everyone and their mother who wants to be in software goes there (like Hollywood for actors and New York for MBAs). So you're fighting a lot of competition (but it could pay off handsomely).

On topic: People, please stop whining at CCP. And offering solutions like "throw more money at it" or "code faster" just shows that you're ignorant to software development and need to stop commenting about it.

whatever you do dont waste your time listening to this guy dust does not need new vehicles it needs whats here to be fixed you cannot add things into a broken foundation and expect them to work. why on earth would ccp waste their time providing new vehicles and turret types when what we have is so destroyed. they need to sit down and dedicate they're time to eradicating blams blasphemy from new eden. add new vehicles, new turret types what are you thinking pfft you should just quit dust

Everyone has been yelling for information. "Tell us whats coming!", "Whats in the next patch?", "Why aren't you telling us things!?" and then when they do tell you and something happens we get people like you yelling "You built us up and lied!", "You're rude!", "Don't tell me how to do my job (manage a restaurant) here's how you should do your job (list of things to fix)"

Please, shut up.

Either ask for information and politely accept it when they give you further information about why it didn't work. Or be quiet and let them release things when they are ready.

I don't come into your restaurant and expect my steak to be in front of me in 1 minute. Nor do I go to the back and curse out your cook for "lying to me" when my steak comes out medium well instead of medium rare. I wait for my food, politely send it back, wait for the correction, and still pay at the end because I am an adult with intelligence and manners.

Point is, we're more efficient at finding bugs than CCP anyways.

If we wait for CCP to find and squash all bugs before a release, then we'd be waiting an extra month or more. Besides that, we're still going to get bugs anyways.


So, use the playerbase, AKA beta testers to test anything resembling functional and then patch it up after.

I used to think a separate, real, beta server would be a waste of resources. But at this point it's looking like the best idea.

NO, ill say what i want dummy

Actually we've been topping 4,500 nukerous times in the last week and month!!

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

New turrets and drop ship cloaking will be the hardest of the bunch. 200 man hours each if all goes well unknown if things go to hell.

Racial varient of all vehicles. I think that would be the easiest. You have the sockets built. just creating a graphical design around the sockets might be hard means you develop the track systems differently so around 100-150 per new race around 200-300 for both amar and.

new vehicle types not needed.

Hey FourFox, I have a better idea. How about you tell us how many man-hours each of those items would take?

This way nobody will have unreal expectations and we can better estimate when features may be arriving. There's no need to be defensive, this post was not entirely in earnest.

However I may be laboring under some misapprehensions. I thought vehicle work started way back and was intended to release with 1.4. I thought the concept art and most of these racial models were revealed at FanFest. I thought CCP stated they already intended for new turrets to come out around or at 1.5, and so some of that work had been completed. I thought dropship cloaking had been written about in a dev blog like 4 years ago and the design team had some grasp over how they wanted to implement that. I thought we'd already seen models and or art for the MAV, and two jets. Not the jets from Carbon build that were shown flying in a demo long ago, but new models for Unreal that included animations for landing gear and such.

And I thought doing a respec is more a matter of reviewing petitions and clicking some buttons, hence the need for some streamlined system to be built there. That might imply some man hours, but surely just stating to the community that there will be a respec process in the future for racial replacements would not take more than a day to discuss and deliver.

If the steak comes out wrong and it takes too long an then i make a crusty comment about how long it takes...believe me they aint paying...Maybe we should make people pay first and then screw em later...seems like a good buisness model ehh??maybe for a video game.

Just ask your team leader at burger king about it I,m sure he will teach you a thing or too

Couple seconds. :P

New turrets and drop ship cloaking will be the hardest of the bunch. 200 man hours each if all goes well unknown if things go to hell.

Racial varient of all vehicles. I think that would be the easiest. You have the sockets built. just creating a graphical design around the sockets might be hard means you develop the track systems differently so around 100-150 per new race around 200-300 for both amar and.

new vehicle types not needed.

At first I was willing to believe you managed a restaurant. But now, not believing it as much. I hate the be the "grammar police" but my god what is it with forums that makes people so incapable of capitalizing their f***ing I's and using proper spelling / punctuation.

As for your "argument" no. The customer paying, and then being screwed later, is a poor business model. However I do not understand how this applies to CCP or DUST since this is a free, let me underline that for you again, free to play game. So it could be s*** not worthy of anyone's time and you still didn't lose a dime for it.

Also, I bet if you were giving away free steaks and some brat was making a scene about the quality of steak you were serving and why weren't they USDA Prime cuts you'd tell him to shove off. He's not paying you for the steak. You don't need him sitting around everyone else moaning about how crappy your service is when you're serving him a free meal.

completely tangential but that sort of breaks down if it was a "pay what you want" deal. Where someone actually paid. To be fair many people have paid CCP for this game, and sure, they Could tell those customers to shove off, but really it'd not in anyone's interest to be rude like that.


Back to the topic at hand, as a software developer you are aware of real world constraints. Of which deadlines are a large factor. You can't spend 100 years writing the perfect software for a customer who has long since died or gone bankrupt.

Time for CCP does not translate as finitely as a deadline, but there is certainly a number. Invisible, somewhere in this deterministic universe there is a point at which the game could fail for lack of delivering content X by time Y. Hard to pinpoint but hard to ignore.

The signs do not look good, and something has to give. There is also the possibility of a game being sustained, but still a failed success. Look at how many MMO's in the past couple years even have released with such high potential, only to crash down instantly. Many resorting to FTP models after that, and some simply dying. If the best Dust can hope to do is struggle along, barely scraping by enough players to break even then it's as good as dead.

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

completely tangential but that sort of breaks down if it was a "pay what you want" deal. Where someone actually paid. To be fair many people have paid CCP for this game, and sure, they Could tell those customers to shove off, but really it'd not in anyone's interest to be rude like that.


Back to the topic at hand, as a software developer you are aware of real world constraints. Of which deadlines are a large factor. You can't spend 100 years writing the perfect software for a customer who has long since died or gone bankrupt.

Time for CCP does not translate as finitely as a deadline, but there is certainly a number. Invisible, somewhere in this deterministic universe there is a point at which the game could fail for lack of delivering content X by time Y. Hard to pinpoint but hard to ignore.

The signs do not look good, and something has to give. There is also the possibility of a game being sustained, but still a failed success. Look at how many MMO's in the past couple years even have released with such high potential, only to crash down instantly. (Most of which suffered from bad launch syndrome as well. Could that be a precursor ?) Many resorting to FTP models after that, and some simply dying. If the best Dust can hope to do is struggle along, barely scraping by enough players to break even then it's as good as dead.

The customer is always right......I didnt invent that statement...it has existed for many years.....no matter what you say it will be and its being said for a reason. Any buisness that does not follow this simple guideline will fall to the competion who does.

Your gonna call me on grammer and Capitalization..spelling?really...im busy trying to AFK farm 3 characters right now and out of al the tasks I'm handling right now having a conversation with somebody who is very clearly not thinking withlogic is not high enough priority for spelling and grammer

I didnt even realize that i was posting with my alt right now...but for the record...I am challenging you to a fight with my main

-me and you in a squad(no marking or orbitals)

Most WP wins 10 million from the other...and loser posts no more on this thread...

Everybody see's this so go ahead let me know where and when


Lets see how confident you are with your 600,000 sp and your free fits

The customer is always right......I didnt invent that statement...it has existed for many years.....no matter what you say it will be and its being said for a reason. Any buisness that does not follow this simple guideline will fall to the competion who does.

Your gonna call me on grammer and Capitalization..spelling?really...im busy trying to AFK farm 3 characters right now and out of al the tasks I'm handling right now having a conversation with somebody who is very clearly not thinking withlogic is not high enough priority for spelling and grammer

I didnt even realize that i was posting with my alt right now...but for the record...I am challenging you to a fight with my main

-me and you in a squad(no marking or orbitals)

Most WP wins 10 million from the other...and loser posts no more on this thread...

Everybody see's this so go ahead let me know where and when


Lets see how confident you are with your 600,000 sp and your free fits

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

Out of curiosity, how long do you think each one of those line items would take in terms of man hours?

You guys had a full year to get this **** done
But as far as we've heard, your art team is still stuck in the concept art stage of doodling pictures on their tablts.


A ******* YEAR OF NOTHING BUT CONCEPT ART.

exactly where is the finished art... what the hell are the artists there doing... *speaking professional game artist...*

a respec for vehicle users? you tell me since youve done respecs before... whats the problem now? your hands cramped or something for falling over?