You're forgetting the fact that the AR is a placeholder. Back in beta it was the only option for the game's workhorse generalist weapon. Every race is supposed to have their own rifles based on their combat philosophies:

Amarr = Mid range, moderate RoF/DPS laser damage type for brawling.
Minmarar = Mid range, high RoF, moderate DPS projectile damage for skirmishing.
Caldari = Mid/long range, moderate RoF, high alpha hybrid damage type for skirmishing.
Gallente = Short/mid range, moderate RoF, high DPS hybrid damage type for brawling.

You have a weapon that has long range, moderate/high RoF, and high DPS but none of the weaknesses. When the Minmatar and Caldari rifles come out the current AR is going to be re-balanced to it's own racial traits. In a way it's not even really a nerf since you're getting two more rifles to use. The rifle is always going to be the workhorse of this game but you just get more options.

I don't understand this argument... what in the world is fair anyway. In the real world, you use the best thing you can get your hands on, and trust me life is in no way fair or balanced. If presently the AR is the best way for you to kill someone then great. If tomorrow its not then oh well. There will always be a variety of ways to kill someone in this game, but fair never really comes into the equation.

Adapt, overcome.

Sure, when all racial "AR-like" weapons are released, present AR should have it's range nerfed to allow other weapons to fill that role, and to be a true Gallente weapon (short range - high DPS).

However, many people think that the situation where you have a "placeholder" weapon in one weapon group, but no such thing in other isn't a balanced/fair approach. Even more so when the other group has an almost complete lack of options anyway. Of course, I'm talking about HMG, which is anything but a placeholder weapon.

Sure, when all racial "AR-like" weapons are released, present AR should have it's range nerfed to allow other weapons to fill that role, and to be a true Gallente weapon (short range - high DPS).

However, many people think that the situation where you have a "placeholder" weapon in one weapon group, but no such thing in other isn't a balanced/fair approach. Even more so when the other group has an almost complete lack of options anyway. Of course, I'm talking about HMG, which is anything but a placeholder weapon.

It's better then a Every heavy weapon.

It's OP.

Why are we still discussing its OPness?

Not a placeholder, but just bad design choices. I don't know what CCP really wants the HMG to be anymore. They won't have a clear picture until we get the other racial suits and more weapons so the class can be balanced within itself instead of scaled down to the standards of lighter frames and weapons.

DO NOT NERF ARs, NERF THE FLUXING AIM ASSIST!!!!

It's isn't ARs that need to be nerfed, but just aim assist. In fact I went back to using my LR to see if it had aim assistance as well. I went 32/4 that day. You wanna know why?

Because I didn't even have to try to aim, as it would just move on it's on, regardless of whether or not I was using ADS.

Stop catering to noobs and people who don't know how to play. If you can't aim and get the kill by yourself, then you don't deserve a kill.. This (I think) is one of the reasons why ppl like 13ear are leaving (not that they matter that much), but still It's annoying when some noob with a militia AR kills me from halfway across the battlefield without even trying to aim.

Yes because heavies cant use the assault rifle? This is how dumb people are, this fool says a certain WEAPON should be nerfed or a certain SUIT class buffed, what in the hell does one have to do with the other?

how am i slow? this is dust which is set in the future, right?

Everything, to be able to balance, has to be compared against something else. To the best of my knowledge, the AR is the weapon they use for that purpose. Since it is the most common weapon, by choice, it gives a large enough sample size to be able to ignore the disparity in ability between those players using it, and focus on the relative effectiveness of other weapons. This means that you should never buff/nerf that weapon as it would cause all data gathered up to that point to become useless. However, you should use it as justification to buff/nerf other weapons in relation to it so as to bring about the balance everyone is so desirous of.

In short, don't nerf the AR, buff those weapons that are underperforming against it in situations where that shouldn't be the case. Such as a LR at long range or an SMG up close. From my experiences, both of those weapons have a better than average chance to take me out with my fully specc'd AR fits under those circumstances. But again, it generally comes down to the awareness and ability of my opponent to force me into the kind of battle they want, and my ability to stay out of those situations.

While I like the idea even this view is not dynamic enough to understand true balance, for one thing the smg up close is simply to simplistic of a view, you must look at factors that simply cant be expressed with values on a spread sheet. For example the sub is a SECONDARY weapon not a primary and if it consistently under performs against an AR can we not say that is somewhat expected? Also your sample is badly skewed in that we are not viewing competitive samples of equal strength, thos who use the AR as it stands are the majority, meaning they will be the best players in the game, have been playing the longest, and have the most skill points so this weapon tends to be found on the field fully maxed, meaning 5 points into sharpshooter, 5 points into proficiency, and also having the core skills to carry enough cpu and pg to stack multiple damage mods on a proto suit. You could play dust all day and not run into someone who has the equivalent of that in a laser rifle or scrambler rifle. Also this weapon does more damage against shields than armor which will change the way a armor heavy sentinel deals with an ar vs a shield heavy caldari. There are so many things that go into this opinion of balance, and thats all it is, thats its nearly impossible to discern balance as long as we think of balance as equal. Dps is another commonly used number to prove imbalance and this is simply not complete, but because we have so many number nerd transplants from eve it is the only way they know how to communicate their frustration with failure at just not being that good, because is the most over looked variable in combat, player skill. It very much reminds me of an athlete blaming his opponents shoes for his own lack of success, it cant be him, it must be the shoes... Balance should never be equal, it should simply mean a given set of strengths and weaknesses that arise under diffrent parameters, paired with diffrent suits and in diffrent situations lead to varied outcomes, some of these strenghts and weaknesses should be given set values, others however should not. Often times when you find your self being completely owned look around at some of those other variables, it might not be the gun, it could just be you.......

Range and dps are the problem and lore wise gallente tech is close range high dammage blasters . The dps wouldent be so ridiculous if it was say 20dps lower and had a 20max range nerf this would bring it in line with traditional galente lore and allow other rufles that were designed to be more effetive at range compaird to the ar I mean an ar shouldent out dps a lazer or scrambler rifle at medium to long range but because of the aim assist and better hd allong with its tighter spread it dose.

No its not OP its the AA combined with hit detection. Crappy players can suddenly shoot straight which is causing everyone grief. CCP just needs to take away AA and make crappy players crappy again.

Lol your mad? How about get better? That's the answer, as for the fl pistol, once again for the slow, its a S I D E A R M, which means its not a primary, that's WHY it was nerfed.

hi i got this game today becuz i wuz bored i realy liek it becuz it iz like halo and cod in space i start and i kill ppl like mad with my AR

Nerfing core mechanics aren't the awnser!

It isn't. Stop your crusade to make DUST even more of a chore.

Perhaps, you need to come up to console standards instead of asking us to come down to PC standards

I don't want to see anything nerfed, I thought flaylocks were fine, as far as 50 70 kills , killing whole team blah blah that's all lies and you know it.

The ar thanks to the aim assist and improved hit detection can just about out dps a hmg but of course its not op. An ar can out dps a lazer rifle outside the ars optimum range but its not op.. the ar has next to no spread and can also out dps a scrambker rifle at the scramblers optimum range but its not op. The ar has a higher dps than an equivalent forge gun but its not op. The list goes on . The ar now is the most unbalanced wepon in the game as it fills roles of niech wepons better than they can. The only thing ars cant kill anymore are vehicles and instalations . If you cant see the logic then your bloody well blind and cant do math simples.

The AR is a light weapon so why does it outgun HMGs?

I'm really not seeing the same results. I have ARs, scrambler rifles, laser rifles, HMGs, and mass drivers. They are all very effective when used to their strengths. I switch between them in matches depending on what is needed. I don't have any trouble at all with the HMG and usually chew up several ARs in a row before getting brought down. On my logi fittings I run an SMG because I find it more effective for CQC. Laser rifles can easily tear down anything before it gets close enough to be a threat.

Note: this is excluding proto because most all the proto stuff is overpowered. If you are referring to Duvolles, then yes they are OP. But to be fair so is anything Freedom, Boundless, etc, etc.

My entire argument hinges on the law of large numbers. The bigger a sample size, the more generalizations you can make. Nerfing the AR would invalidate all data compiled for "balancing" and would require collecting yet another sample size which can never be as large or accurate in interpretation as having left it alone.

The goal would be to get every weapon where it is desired in regard to comparability to the AR, then implement the racial variants in order to "flesh out" and "nerf" the overall AR we are currently using.

EDIT: And I don't have anything in mind other than the results of the 1-on-1 stats using weapon v weapon, which they have access to. You see a large enough sample size, and you can just about predict anything within a few % of actual results. Law of large numbers works for insurance, works for science, and works for most anything. Its why you can't normally make any predictions when you have a sample size of 5, but you can with a sample size of 5 million since all variables will inevitably cancel each other out and an accurate baseline can be established.