Also, what part are you complaining about? How your gun is effective against bunched up players backed into a corner? Or how it is good at killing players who 5 other guys are stripping the shields off of? Or are you complaining, like you did in the video, that you get hurt when people chuck explosives at you when you and your team are in a close group?

You are in THE ideal scenario to use that weapon. That is a barrel you are shooting into and the stupid red-dots are the fish swimming stupidly around, having babies, and swimming around some more. Except instead of shooting you are dropping sticks of dynamite into the barrel.

Also, what part are you complaining about? How your gun is effective against bunched up players backed into a corner? Or how it is good at killing players who 5 other guys are stripping the shields off of? Or are you complaining, like you did in the video, that you get hurt when people chuck explosives at you when you and your team are in a close group?

You are in THE ideal scenario to use that weapon. That is a barrel you are shooting into and the stupid red-dots are the fish swimming stupidly around, having babies, and swimming around some more. Except instead of shooting you are dropping sticks of dynamite into the barrel.

It doesn't support their point to post videos of mass driver users being killed by assault rifles, or committing suicide because you rushed them, or you are standing above them and they can't land a round on you.

Also did you notice how a lot of your kills took at least 3-4 rounds to kill? That's about 20% of your weapon's ammo. And considering that mass drivers take a bigger chunk of nanite clusters from nanohives, that makes them a significantly less ammo efficient weapon.

dude, this guy is just shooting and who ever got caught in the 6m!! bast radius is dead....

sorry, i cant teach the stupid- 150 dmg for shooting in the right direction is wrong, that weapon requires no skill, its sad.... 5m splash damage so if you hit this guy within 5m you automatically so 150 shield damage and like 180 armor damage and shoot twice and this poor guy is dead.... spraying and praying requires more skill than this weapon

What's YOUR point now? Did you notice the 10 other blue dots doing damage to the players he was shooting at with grenades, AR fire stripping down shields? Did you notice how long people were spawning at that dumb CRU?

You can't balance around stupid.

dude he had proto suit, its very easy to fit a basic nano hive on a proto suit... nothing more than basic is needed...

That's not exactly my point. This was nearly the IDEAL scenario for using this weapon. You can't complain about that. You have to admit that. If this was a situation where players were running around from all directions, on open terrain peppered with cover with various degrees of high and low ground, and there weren't 5 other blue-dots dropping nanohives in the same 20 m radius as him this would be a completely different story.

The MD shines crazy bright when you force the enemy into a defensive position in a corner. That was this.

did you notice the rest of the time that he was just shooting in one direction and letting his splash damage do the damage? did you notice that if everyone used AR, the noobs coulda lived a bit longer because even when they were under cover, they were dying to this things massive splash damage... and radius... dud also notice 50% or more of the kills were from just shooting in the general direction... MD 1v1 anything it wins except for sniper rifle... or really long rage weapons...

How about if MD rounds don't explode if they don't travel a minimum distance?

Its a semi balance, the MD becomes worst at CQC, and also prevents a "friendly" blue berry from walking in front of you and making you splood her self.

The breach could keep the close range fire since it is a CQC weapon.

So you want people to be able to spawn into this situation and just be able to tank an area denail weapon, walk toward the shooter, in a group, and be able to stare him down and plant rounds in his head? That's just dumb. You cannot deny that this was the ideal scenario for that gun.

And I call bullsh*t about 'general direction'. That's a semantics thing. There was literally about 150 cu m of space back there where all those players were spawning. When you have a weapon that has a splash that covers 30% of that area or grenades that cover 70% that is the POINT of area denial.

Why are you making excuses for the enemy that is constantly spawning in there expecting to live under 10 people's fire?

My favorite part of this is that someone from The Unholy Legion of DarkStar is complaining about explosive weapons. Their CEO, CEOPyrex, loves the explosives. (Wish he'd get his Internet fixed. I watch his videos everyday while waiting for code to compile.)

Mass Drivers are very effective again, but so are a lot of weapons. I'm not currently running them and hate when I die to them, or to the AR, another AR, that AR over there and especially to that Forge Gunner hanging out on that tower right above me. Oh, and to those 3 ARs that just came around the corner.

Maybe I'll spec into Mass Drivers again. They harvest so many tears. Been too long since I got hate mail.

did you notice the rest of the time that he was just shooting in one direction and letting his splash damage do the damage? did you notice that if everyone used AR, the noobs coulda lived a bit longer because even when they were under cover, they were dying to this things massive splash damage... and radius... dud also notice 50% or more of the kills were from just shooting in the general direction... MD 1v1 anything it wins except for sniper rifle... or really long rage weapons...

MD- the more op version of a flay lock- to bad you hard head mofos dont understand and spec into it like lil beeches cuz you wanna be OP...

MD shines in any other scenario too... THE WEAPON REQUIRES NO GOD DAM SKILL, WHAT THE FU*K DONT YOU GET ABOUT THIS, forget the video... MD> any weapon 1v1, even in medium range, a MD can beat a AR just because of the Splash radius....

MD- the more op version of a flay lock- to bad you hard head mofos dont understand and spec into it like lil beeches cuz you wanna be OP...

Didnt i just say forget the video... **** you, get of my thread, your too god dam stupid to understand-i bet your one of the ***** fkers who uses this OP weapon, i hope you have fun being OP...

the Assault MD is balanced....

I specced into because I DIDN'T want to be OP.

I was thinking about letting this go, but now I won't.

I've had the MD as my primary weapon since closed beta. I had it when latency issues caused it to auto-reload when you had half a clip still showing. I had it in chromasome when it started to be good, then I still had it when the occlusion issues started with it and they nerfed the splash range. It was the first weapon I had to proto as a logi before anyone was complaining how OP it was. It wasn't until a month ago that I started speccing into other weapons.

I simply don't know what you guys want the MD to be?

By saying you want a much smaller AoE, you are saying you want a traditionally area denial weapon to be a direct fire that people can fight against as if it were an AR.

By saying you want to have MD users have to aim/hit directly at targets you are saying you want all gunplay to work basically the same.

By NOT criticizing the strategic decision to spawn into a massive death trap against superior numbers you are saying that people should mainly fight in massively boring and non-tactical AR blobs.

You want to be able to strafe-dance with people at 30m in fair 1v1 fights all day. You want all weapons to work the same against armor and shield.

I don't buy the argument that MD wins 1v1 against AR all the time. It SHOULD win against them outside of the optimals, but it should ALSO win against them if they fail to avoid flux grenade damage at closer range. If you can tell me why it shouldn't win in those situations then we can talk.

Skill into the plasma canon if you do not wish to be OP, I did. Plasma canon and scout, I never receive any hate mails.

I specced into because I DIDN'T want to be OP.


AR is the biggest crutch in this game. Easiest to use, most versatile, big clip and high ammo reserves, pinpoint accuracy, highest DPS of all the light weapons (against infantry)

Oh man. Lol. You forgot to mention you need to aim at the person's body to do damage and with high strafing speeds and nice dodges or w/e. I'm pretty sure the AR requires more skill then the MD.

MD is you go up some high place and spam ****, throw flux, spam more **** lol. And no I'm no AR scrub. I use ADV MD, SR, AR and basic shot gun and plasma cannon. Out of all the weapons I used personally, the MD is easy, especially with the aiming for this game.

Um yea....the problem isnt the fact that the reddots were stupid for continuing to spawn in that location. The problem was that the person using the MD barely had to glance in the general direction of the enemy in order to get a hit. I am not even talking about the amount of dmg but the fact that he can fire the gun into the middle of that area and still hit people in the outskirts of the area and kill them........its just dumb. How you can watch this and not see that there is a problem with the splash radius is beyond me. I just love the fact that you guys act like the MD is hard to use. It makes your "OP AR" comments look ret@rded in comparison. Really AR where you have to actually track your target is easier to use than a weapon where you dont even have to track your target...just point in the general direction and fire. Everytime you fire and hit the enemy they can shoot back as their weapon gets jerked up so they cant return fire....by the time the weapon jerk come back down the MD is ready to fire another round. Yes a good MD can take an AR head to head and win more often than not.

Um yea....the problem isnt the fact that the reddots were stupid for continuing to spawn in that location. The problem was that the person using the MD barely had to glance in the general direction of the enemy in order to get a hit. I am not even talking about the amount of dmg but the fact that he can fire the gun into the middle of that area and still hit people in the outskirts of the area and kill them........its just dumb. How you can watch this and not see that there is a problem with the splash radius is beyond me. I just love the fact that you guys act like the MD is hard to use. It makes your "OP AR" comments look ret@rded in comparison. Really AR where you have to actually track your target is easier to use than a weapon where you dont even have to track your target...just point in the general direction and fire. Everytime you fire and hit the enemy they can shoot back as their weapon gets jerked up so they cant return fire....by the time the weapon jerk come back down the MD is ready to fire another round. Yes a good MD can take an AR head to head and win more often than not.

It doesn't support their point to post videos of mass driver users being killed by assault rifles, or committing suicide because you rushed them, or you are standing above them and they can't land a round on you.

1.Ars kill faster then that even militia
2.He killed enemies at about 35% of their health
3.The one guy with full health took four shoots
4 . Enemies in best situation for Md
5.Ars are on hitscan
6.Op biomass is on character select screen

sorry, i cant teach the stupid- 150 dmg for shooting in the right direction is wrong, that weapon requires no skill, its sad.... 5m splash damage so if you hit this guy within 5m you automatically so 150 shield damage and like 180 armor damage and shoot twice and this poor guy is dead.... spraying and praying requires more skill than this weapon

Having some experience with the weapon now, I agree with you - the counters are fairly easy but unintuitive:

- Find an elevated position. It's so hard to hit an elevated opponent with this weapon, even if he's elevated slightly... unless it's a direct hit - which is difficult.
- If in close quarters, GET CLOSER. They either kill themselves or have to take out their sidearm
- Always count their shots. If it's the standard version, they only have six shots. The reload time on that weapon is long, so rush them accordingly.
- Don't bunch up. This weapon was made for squads that hug...

Yea thats why when I specced into the standard MD I laughed at how easy mode it is. Since I can actually aim I easily take on 3-4 ppl at the exact same time and I will completely decimate 4 proto suits with my flux MD combo.....heck when I was using the MD I found that I didnt need the flux half of the time.....maybe its hard for you guys but getting a direct hit that also damages all the enemies around that guy really completely dominates this game. Sorry but AR still require tracking...while the MD requires only spamming. I am not saying that any weapon in this game takes incredible skill to use but the MD definitely takes less skill than the AR.

whereas your ar with aim assist is... hard to use?

I challenge to play a couple matches of PC against a solid corp with your AR. See how easy it is to use when your opponent is not a random blueberry and knows how to properly strafe. The AR is not the easy-mode weapon people make it out to be. Its just easy to mow down blueberries with because most of them stand still.

I'll give that the AR probably needs more recoil, but 1v1 AR vs MD, the MD has a distinct advantage usually.

Yea thats why when I specced into the standard MD I laughed at how easy mode it is. Since I can actually aim I easily take on 3-4 ppl at the exact same time and I will completely decimate 4 proto suits with my flux MD combo.....heck when I was using the MD I found that I didnt need the flux half of the time.....maybe its hard for you guys but getting a direct hit that also damages all the enemies around that guy really completely dominates this game. Sorry but AR still require tracking...while the MD requires only spamming. I am not saying that any weapon in this game takes incredible skill to use but the MD definitely takes less skill than the AR.

Oh man. Lol. You forgot to mention that it takes no skill to aim at the person's body to do damage and with high strafing speeds and nice dodges or w/e you can avoid getting hit by the MD, but you can't avoid getting hit by AR with those tactics. I'm not pretty sure the MD requires more skill than the AR. I know from experience.

AR is you go anywhere and aim and keep the trigger pulled down and easy kills, lol. And you sound like AR scrub. I'm just not gonna go on for any more... nice collecting tears.

I'm not logged in right now. What's the direct and splash damage for a Freedom with skills but no damage mods?

whereas your ar with aim assist is... hard to use?

Freedom Mass Driver

Direct Damage: 266.2 HP
Splash Damage: 127.6 HP
Blast Radius: 4.4m (5.5m with operation 5)

However these stats can't show the full picture. I actually counted last night going against a Freedom Mass Driver, it took him 4 shots to kill me while I was trying to take him down.

my hp:
502 Shields
163 Armor

Seems mathematically impossible for that to happen no matter how many damage mods you stack. Something is very wrong with explosives damage calculation, I can't imagine any of the hits against me were direct hits either I could see the shots after all.

Freedom Mass Driver

Direct Damage: 266.2 HP
Splash Damage: 127.6 HP
Blast Radius: 4.4m (5.5m with operation 5)

However these stats can't show the full picture. I actually counted last night going against a Freedom Mass Driver, it took him 4 shots to kill me while I was trying to take him down.

my hp:
502 Shields
163 Armor

Seems mathematically impossible for that to happen no matter how many damage mods you stack. Something is very wrong with explosives damage calculation, I can't imagine any of the hits against me were direct hits either I could see the shots after all.

Yes because everyone plays with aim assist on?? I find it to be more annoying then helpful and I have played with aim assist off for months before they removed aim assist (currently there is no aim assist as CCP says its not working just incase you didnt know this).

I dont have dust pulled up but the info I have has blast radius for the MD being 4.8 for normal MD and 7.2 for assault...is this not correct?

Freedom Mass Driver

Direct Damage: 266.2 HP
Splash Damage: 127.6 HP
Blast Radius: 4.4m (5.5m with operation 5)

However these stats can't show the full picture. I actually counted last night going against a Freedom Mass Driver, it took him 4 shots to kill me while I was trying to take him down.

my hp:
502 Shields
163 Armor

Seems mathematically impossible for that to happen no matter how many damage mods you stack. Something is very wrong with explosives damage calculation, I can't imagine any of the hits against me were direct hits either I could see the shots after all.

At least you don't get 1 shot by a STD Mass Driver because you want to be cool and armor tank .

... Those are the blast radii from Chromosome if you pulled them off the web...

You're sure nothing else hit you?

Tired of people saying the AR is easy mode. A gun that 80% of the time you have to ADS Vs. a weapon that probably doesn't even need a sight? I told my friend to spec into the MD and hes a relatively new player. He went 16-2, 13-3 and 12-1 in his first 3 matches.

Those are the blast radii from Chromosome if you pulled them off the web.

Boundless is now 6.6m

Another thing i've noticed, I know other people in TP have noticed this.

My shield stacked cal logi 502/163 will often taken 900 damage from a core locus and i'll be one shot.

I've heard similar reports from other shield stacked players as well.

Something is seriously wrong with explosives in this game.

i've been hit by a militia locus for 600 damage before too.

Either situation is mathematically impossible as well, same with how I died in 4 shots from that freedom MD.

OK, I went ahead and logged in to do some math.

Freedom MD with proficiency 3 does 139 damage per round for splash which is 111 to shields or 166 to armor per second. The Freedom fires 1 round per second. I think we can all agree that's pretty much a guaranteed hit under many conditions. Direct damage was not figured because that is not how most MD users aim.

Duvolle AR with proficiency 3 does 40 damage per round which is 48 to shields or 32 to armor (I think) for 600 or 400 per second. The AR fires 12.5 rounds per second. You need to land 18% of your shots to match the damage potential of the Freedom against shields or 41% when against armor.

What is the shield buffer on a Caldari Assault and Logistics? I run a hybrid tank on a Minmatar Logistics and my best suit would take at least 3 shots to strip my shields and just over 2 to finish off my armor. That's 5 shots over 5 seconds. During that time the Duvolle has the potential to do over 2,000 points of damage if all the rounds hit. If I was carrying a Freedom you'd have to land better than 35% of your shots before I took down another Minmatar Logistics fit the same way but with a Duvolle.

The Freedom user has the ability to hit multiple enemy but then they have the ability to apply more damage if they are facing a single MD user.

Let me know if I failed at math anywhere. I'm just trying to compare the damage potential here. This analysis is not intended to support either side.

Another thing i've noticed, I know other people in TP have noticed this.

My shield stacked cal logi 502/163 will often taken 900 damage from a core locus and i'll be one shot.

I've heard similar reports from other shield stacked players as well.

Something is seriously wrong with explosives in this game.

i've been hit by a militia locus for 600 damage before too.

Either situation is mathematically impossible as well, same with how I died in 4 shots from that freedom MD.

The problem with LAVs killing was the collision system registering the hit many times amplifying the damage done to crazy levels. I'd interested to know how the explosion damage was 'fixed' going from only detecting on a plane to being a sphere. Hopefully, it wasn't the same programmer. ;-)

The Core Locus does 600 damage, so about 480 to shields. You should have had something left over.

Someone needs to do a controlled test. That someone should be CCP of course but if you posted a video showing one shot at a time from a Freedom and counted the damage it could help.

Someone needs to do a controlled test. That someone should be CCP of course but if you posted a video showing one shot at a time from a Freedom and counted the damage it could help.

Yes but there are other things that are hard to quantify as well. For instance if you are in the MD blast radius then when you get hit it causes your aim to jerk upwards. The amount of jerking for you aim is significant enough that it takes about a second (maybe a tad bit less) for your aim to be adjusted back down (its done automatically). During that time you shots will obviously go wide and not hit your target. Like you said the MD fires ~1 round a second lets say. So MD can fire mess with your aim and by the time you aim recovers the MD can fire again...thus continuing to force the weapon off of target. This essentially means that a MD user can effectively take an AR user head to head and will actually not have to worry about being shot back.

The problem with LAVs killing was the collision system registering the hit many times amplifying the damage done to crazy levels. I'd interested to know how the explosion damage was 'fixed' going from only detecting on a plane to being a sphere. Hopefully, it wasn't the same programmer. ;-)

The Core Locus does 600 damage, so about 480 to shields. You should have had something left over.

LAVs have nothing to do with I posted, unless you mean to say you think there is a similar bug with explosives applying damage multiple times?

Even if I had all armor a Core locus cannot do 900 damage, that's a 50% bonus straight through. Something aint right.

Honestly, all weapons except the laser rifle should cause at least a little knock back, including the AR. Since the MD is intended to be an AOE weapon I could see the rate of fire being dropped but retaining the shock and obscuring effects for gameplay balance. The battlefield should be a violent place and if someone has the initiative they should be able to keep the enemy off balance to some degree. Where the balance between combat sim and gameplay is I have no idea though.

Right. Just speculating that the damage could be applied multiple times like with the current LAV bug.

erhaps.....I think its kinda weird because we are in dropsuit can can drop from orbit and land unharmed on the planets surface....it seems odd that a small explosive would cause you to jerk (this is also why getting run over by an LAV does not make sense to me in this game). The biggest problem with balance is really the AOE..I would be willing to wait to see if a change to AOE would be enough to balance this weapon b4 anything else is done.

Right. Just speculating that the damage could be applied multiple times like with the current LAV bug.

When you drop you activate an inertial dampener to counter the fall. This brings up an interesting idea: activating the dampener when explosive weapons are being chucked your way as a counter. Maybe it would be a defensive module designed to counter them and you could switch to a suit fitted with them when you find yourself facing an enemy that is relying on them.

Eh, crazy idea. Just putting it out there.

It would be too complex....CCP cant even get the ground right so you get stuck on it...you really think they would get this to be done correctly?

They do get it right eventually.. it just usually takes 4-5 patches lol.

Really?? Because you still get stuck on the ground and that was a problem in August 2012 when I started playing..........

Yeah.... well I'm sure moving to uprising didn't help at all... so give them 4-5 more patches to fix the ground stick issues.

I know they are working on a new system to find these problems.

Must be part of their 5 year plan.........

Tired of people saying the AR is easy mode. A gun that 80% of the time you have to ADS Vs. a weapon that probably doesn't even need a sight? I told my friend to spec into the MD and hes a relatively new player. He went 16-2, 13-3 and 12-1 in his first 3 matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92K1M1-94sQ


their splash damage is too high....

[quote=Anmol Singh]

I've had the MD as my primary weapon since closed beta. I had it when latency issues caused it to auto-reload when you had half a clip still showing. I had it in chromosome when it started to be good, then I still had it when the occlusion issues started with it and they nerfed the splash range. It was the first weapon I had to proto as a logi before anyone was complaining how OP it was. It wasn't until a month ago that I started speccing into other weapons.

I simply don't know what you guys want the MD to be?

By saying you want a much smaller AoE, you are saying you want a traditionally area denial weapon to be a direct fire that people can fight against as if it were an AR.

By saying you want to have MD users have to aim/hit directly at targets you are saying you want all gunplay to work basically the same.

By NOT criticizing the strategic decision to spawn into a massive death trap against superior numbers you are saying that people should mainly fight in massively boring and non-tactical AR blobs.

You want to be able to strafe-dance with people at 30m in fair 1v1 fights all day. You want all weapons to work the same against armor and shield.

I don't buy the argument that MD wins 1v1 against AR all the time. It SHOULD win against them outside of the optimals, but it should ALSO win against them if they fail to avoid flux grenade damage at closer range. If you can tell me why it shouldn't win in those situations then we can talk.

LOL Dust 514....the only game where players are so bad that they flock to vehemently defend the grenade launcher that has a 5.5 meter RADIUS (not diameter radius this means the diameter is 11.0 meters).

Video removed fk you all... MD is op every where not only in video... spraying and praying with AR still takes more skill than shooting a fking mass driver... the god dam slash damage does all the fking damage and you cannot defend against it since their is a 6m bblast radius...


their splash damage is too high....

6.Ar514
5.True Ar users defend Ars
4. Blast radius on explosives
3. Grenade launcher
2. Stepping on failed QQ attempt(not defense)
1.After termination one can then create new clone.New clones enter battle academy where one my LEARN TO PLAY.

That's pretty simply.

When you touch in direct hit the Blast damage AND direct damage are stacked.
You were touch 4 times IN DIRECT !
Pretty normal that you die.....

That's pretty simply.

When you touch in direct hit the Blast damage AND direct damage are stacked.
You were touch 4 times IN DIRECT !
Pretty normal that you die.....
In urpising we've been totally nerfed (20% of damage and radius)
And don't forget that 4 shots is 3/4 of the mag and the MD has a huge reload.

This weapon is not totally overpowered because alone without Flux a MD can't win a 1vs1 with same skill point.
And there's too much cases where the MD is useless....

-At less than 4 meters the user will kill himself 1/2.
-If the ennemy is higher than the MD it will be almost impossible to kill.
-On PC the MD can't help allies at CQC because it will make a lot of teamkill.
-On shield ennemy without Flux.
-If using flux in 1/2 of cases it will kill the alilies shield if near the ennemy.

The MD is an weapon perfect on squad (squad team MUST destroy the shield before the MD start shooting)

BUT i'm according to the fact than the blast Radius is maybe too much high on the proto version with the Level 5 of use.
It should be retrogated from one level.
(Proto will have the radius of an actual ADV and ADV of an STD.)
The damage is fine don't forget than it's an primary weapon and that if the radius is downgraded the blast damage will be perfet and not abused. and don't forget that it's a weapon with a lot of drawbacks.

And finally than the MD has been nerfed one time ago...

Although hilarious....I dont use an AR...so your point is moot. This isnt a supposed failed QQ attempt. I honestly dont care but am also at the same time astounded at how idiotic the Dust playerbase is. They will defend to death a weapon that is definitely unbalanced in its current state but they are always saying the AR is unbalanced......despite having 0 evidence of AR being unbalanced (vs the many proofs that MDs are in fact unbalanced).

Also you probably shouldnt tell people who consistenly whipe the floor with you to "learn to play". Its fine if you guys want an unbalanced game. We will see more and more people gravitate to using the MDs until either another weapon comes out that is even more OP or this weapon is finally tuned down.

So your agreeing that the blast radius is to high? All that is being called for right now is to change the blast radius on the normal MD to 4.5 (down from 5.5) and the blast radius on the assault MD to 6.5-7.0 (down from 8.25). I dont want the MD destroyed to make it unusable....I just want it to also not be OP as it is in its current state (I have std lvl MD and I just pwn proto suits like they are nothing.......its actually laughably sad).

I think an elegant fix to this would be to change MD operation to something not radius related. This was the same problem the flaylock had too.

1.Failed thread
2.Failed at reading comprehension
3.Failed at ignoring op Ar evidence despite videos and hitscan
4.Failed at group focus panic spray is 1v1 ownage
5.Failed at panic bunny hopping is 1v1 ownage
6.Failed at team getting owned by basic pc
7.Failed at Not finding biomass

Video removed fk you all... MD is op every where not only in video... spraying and praying with AR still takes more skill than shooting a fking mass driver... the god dam slash damage does all the fking damage and you cannot defend against it since their is a 6m bblast radius...

BTW- the only mass driver that is balanced is Assault and breach... but wait those take skill.... thats why evre1 uses EXO or freedom... You guys are noobs trying to defend your OP weapon- i hope it gets nerfed... fk you n have a terrible day...

their splash damage is too high....

I think an elegant fix to this would be to change MD operation to something not radius related. This was the same problem the flaylock had too.

That's pretty simply.

When you touch in direct hit the Blast damage AND direct damage are stacked.
You were touch 4 times IN DIRECT !
Pretty normal that you die.....
In urpising we've been totally nerfed (20% of damage and radius)
And don't forget that 4 shots is 3/4 of the mag and the MD has a huge reload.

This weapon is not totally overpowered because alone without Flux a MD can't win a 1vs1 with same skill point.
And there's too much cases where the MD is useless....

-At less than 4 meters the user will kill himself 1/2.
-If the ennemy is higher than the MD it will be almost impossible to kill.
-On PC the MD can't help allies at CQC because it will make a lot of teamkill.
-On shield ennemy without Flux.
-If using flux in 1/2 of cases it will kill the alilies shield if near the ennemy.

The MD is an weapon perfect on squad (squad team MUST destroy the shield before the MD start shooting)

BUT i'm according to the fact than the blast Radius is maybe too much high on the proto version with the Level 5 of use.
It should be retrogated from one level.
(Proto will have the radius of an actual ADV and ADV of an STD.)
The damage is fine don't forget than it's an primary weapon and that if the radius is downgraded the blast damage will be perfet and not abused. and don't forget that it's a weapon with a lot of drawbacks.

And finally than the MD has been nerfed one time ago...

1.Failed thread
2.Failed at reading comprehension
3.Failed at ignoring op Ar evidence despite videos and hitscan
4.Failed at group focus panic spray is 1v1 ownage
5.Failed at panic bunny hopping is 1v1 ownage
6.Failed at team getting owned by basic pc
7.Failed at Not finding biomass

I think if the skill bonus of the md was changed to something else, everyone might be happy

i have destroyed plenty of proto cal logis with EXO on my new account i started just to test it out... it OPed the OP...

How about +10% Ammo a level I could live with that!!

Sooooooo......

A weapon that is supposed to make you run away from an area is killing you cause your in its area?

The way to deal with MDs.

Run away, and engage at a longer distance.

Charging in his face doesn't work.

That just costs your team a clone.

Try using the MD, and then force your face to realize that they need WAY more skill to get kills with a MD then to Point crosshair at target and spam R1.

LOL no you dont. I use std and it completely pwns proto suits...they dont even stand a chance. I cant even imagine with the proto MD would be like.

Honestly the best fix would be to completely overhaul the weapon. Remove the direct hit bonus and make the gun do X damages at its center with the blast dmg degrading as you move away from the center. Also it should not degrade in a straight light...the degradation should be slow at first and then increase rapidly. If your half way between the max radius for dmg and the center of the explosion you should not take 50% of the dmg...it should be more like 35-40% of dmg and the very edges should barely even tickle your shields.

Damage should be calculated by a gaussian curve imo, I agree direct damage should be done away with.

All explosives should be like this, i've made numerous posts about how explosive damage fall off is not right in this game.

I do also think that the MD is probably mostly OP because it suffers no hit detection issues like most hit scan weapons in this game.

It takes 4 MD rounds to knock out my suit, which is 2/3 of a clip. When a well strafed 1v1 battles can easily go 1.5 - 2 clips of the AR because aiming and hit detection is so bad.

Are you talking about running and gunning solo like you would with your AR, or are you running with the protection of your squad?

Start the base damage at the current direct damage amount, then follow a realistic (i.e. physics based reality) drop-off based on the surface of an expanding sphere. The further away you are the larger the surface of the sphere and the more spread out the shrapnel will be.

That will reward better targeting and eliminate any argument about sloppy shooting being rewarded. If I drop one right at your feet I get 400 HP, if I'm off four meters I get much less. It would probably get a little damage outside the current radius just like the guns get damage past their optimal with fallloff to reflect the fact that the shrapnel doesn't magically evaporate at a set distance.

I would be fine with this....its honestly how the weapon should have worked from the beginning.

Be glad this weapon is hugely nerfed compared to its real life counterpart which has a 15m casualty radius, 5m kill radius, and warheads that can rip through lightly armored vehicles.

Be glad this weapon is hugely nerfed compared to its real life counterpart which has a 15m casualty radius, 5m kill radius, and warheads that can rip through lightly armored vehicles.

And a faster fire rate, and faster projectile velocity, and more ammo, and so and so on!!

I demand realism. Give me a 6 shot cod style noob toon with 6 rounds ready to go and as many extra as I can strap to my power armored body...say...60? Sounds good.

You're so philosophical. please adorn me with more pearls of wisdom.

Video removed fk you all... MD is op every where not only in video... spraying and praying with AR still takes more skill than shooting a fking mass driver... the god dam slash damage does all the fking damage and you cannot defend against it since their is a 6m bblast radius...

BTW- the only mass driver that is balanced is Assault and breach... but wait those take skill.... thats why evre1 uses EXO or freedom... You guys are noobs trying to defend your OP weapon- i hope it gets nerfed... fk you n have a terrible day...

their splash damage is too high....

I destroyed an Surya with a Soma.

SOMA IS OVERPOWER LESS DAMAGE LESS RADIUS LESS SPEED MORE COST MOAR NERF MOAR .

As*holes Your assault rifles don't stop getting buffed Update after update in less than a Militia Mag you make more than 1500Hp of damage at 700rpm or more WITHOUT any skills.
The fact that the RPM is really high make thant anyone in the line of sight take 5/6 bullet at least even in 0.5sec.
I remember than militia got 34 damage approximately i think and it touch at 5% everything shield or armor so i don't count it.
34*5 means 160damage in approximately 1sec or less for only 5 bullet so one weak pression on the fire button.
It's more than a MD blast damage and you can keep firing where we must wait an other second to re-shoot.
You got a better DPS than the MD even without shooting the head.
You can aim we can't.
We must be careful of the distance : Too far we shoot higher. Too close we're dead unless it's a scout.


You're tiring me we're all ok we must reduce the radius to make it a more "skill" weapon and less OP.
But don't say sh*t ! assault rifle is NOT skilled and no weapon is skilled.

first the flaylock, and now this...the mass driver is not OP it is just a very easy weapon to use. easy does not=OP. i will admit the freedom is pretty good, but there are ways to counter it. this is coming fro a guy wh gets first place regularly with NOVA KNIVES. i would say the MD is a good weapon for beginners, but as you said taks no skill to use. i know this becuse i can use every weapon in the game at this point.

Aren't you a tanker?

Sooooooo......

A weapon that is supposed to make you run away from an area is killing you cause your in its area?

The way to deal with MDs.

Run away, and engage at a longer distance.

Charging in his face doesn't work.

That just costs your team a clone.

Try using the MD, and then force your face to realize that they need WAY more skill to get kills with a MD then to Point crosshair at target and spam R1.

And a faster fire rate, and faster projectile velocity, and more ammo, and so and so on!!

you are stupid- get lost.... only way to counter MD- sniper the person from across the map...

Aren't you a tanker?

i have like 50 alts bro...

This is not one of my alts. Do not be mistaken!

Mmmm I want a LAV mounted MD with infinite LAVammo

Lai Dai Mass Driver

I went there.

Or how about a scrambler pistol, a shotgun, a hmg, a forge, an ar, a scrambler rifle.
MD have a dps 1/3 of AR and you still loose?? What are you doing, you could take 2 sec break to reload, and still beat an MD with the militia ar.

first the flaylock, and now this...the mass driver is not OP it is just a very easy weapon to use. easy does not=OP. i will admit the freedom is pretty good, but there are ways to counter it. this is coming fro a guy wh gets first place regularly with NOVA KNIVES. i would say the MD is a good weapon for beginners, but as you said taks no skill to use. i know this becuse i can use every weapon in the game at this point.

Lai Dai Mass Driver

I went there.

That would definitely get the vehicle users in on the MD hate right now

AR you have to aim... massdriver fire in the right direction....

The real power of the MD is the chaos it wreaks on opponents. When you get hit by one, the hit detection lights up 360 and you can't see anything. If you don't immediately see who's shooting you then your only choice is to run around like an idiot and die. (That being said, other weapons will kill you more quickly if you get sneaked up on) .... My point is.. They need to fix the hit detection thing so you at least know where the explosion came from and possibly the way damage tapers off from the explosion point. Other than that, just because it's amazing in certain situations and easy to use doesn't make it OP. In many situations it is really quite useless.

AR you have to aim... massdriver fire in the right direction....

WHY YOU WANT NERF FOR MASS DRIVER? IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AS PROGRAMMED FROM CROWD CONTROL PRODUCTIONS? YOU THINK IS NEED TWEAK? THEN MAYBE YOU FIND JOB WITH OFFICE OF CCP SHANGHAI! YOU HAVE DRINKS WITH CCP SOUNDWAVE, TRADE STORY OF MANY GAME DESIGNED, DETAILS OF SCHOOL FOR PROGRAMMING, AND LATE NIGHTS CHASING DOWN BUG!

OR MAYBE YOU NOT DO THIS.

PROBABLY IS BECAUSE YOU NEVER DESIGN GAME IN WHOLE LIFE. YOU LOOK AT FINE CCP MASS DRIVER, THINK IT NEED CRAZY NERF BAT ON ALL STATS OF WEAPON. YOU HAVE DISEASE OF ENTITLED WHINER, CHANGE THING THAT IS FINE FOR NO REASON EXCEPT TO GAIN ADVANTAGE OVER MORE SKILLED COMRADE. YOU PUT MINIMAL EFFORT IN PRACTICE, TURN AIM ASSIST ON, RUN GEAR OF LOWEST QUALITY, THEN COMPLAIN WHEN FANTASY OF BE LIKE AMERICAN MOVIE GUY JOHN RAMBO FALL TO ****. SO YOU BLAME LAST WEAPON TO KILL YOU, THEN ASK CCP TO ADD SEX DILDO TO WEAPON SO MASS DRIVER USER MUST **** OWN ******** BEFORE LOB ONE ROUND.

MASS DRIVER IS FINE. YOU **** IT, IT PERFECTLY BALANCED AND NO NERF WILL GET YOU POSITIVE RATIO OF KILL DEATH. PRACTICE WITH COMRADE, LEARN WEAKNESS AND STRENGTH OF WEAPON, DEVELOP YOUR SKILLS. THEN MAYBE YOU NOT NEED DUMB NERF PUT ON ALL WEAPON TO GET SINGLE KILL.

Lol, AR you have to aim. You can miss 3/4 of your clip and still kill. + 1 for effort.

yes MD are a pain in the ass but they are granade launchers. They explode and explosions normally have splash damage there not op if you are moving as a squad and you hear the noise of one fireing spread out concentrate your fire job done. I dont use MDs but would like to but i cant see the point of sinking SP into a weapon that will get nerfed one day.

WHY YOU WANT NERF FOR MASS DRIVER? IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AS PROGRAMMED FROM CROWD CONTROL PRODUCTIONS? YOU THINK IS NEED TWEAK? THEN MAYBE YOU FIND JOB WITH OFFICE OF CCP SHANGHAI! YOU HAVE DRINKS WITH CCP SOUNDWAVE, TRADE STORY OF MANY GAME DESIGNED, DETAILS OF SCHOOL FOR PROGRAMMING, AND LATE NIGHTS CHASING DOWN BUG!

OR MAYBE YOU NOT DO THIS.

PROBABLY IS BECAUSE YOU NEVER DESIGN GAME IN WHOLE LIFE. YOU LOOK AT FINE CCP MASS DRIVER, THINK IT NEED CRAZY NERF BAT ON ALL STATS OF WEAPON. YOU HAVE DISEASE OF ENTITLED WHINER, CHANGE THING THAT IS FINE FOR NO REASON EXCEPT TO GAIN ADVANTAGE OVER MORE SKILLED COMRADE. YOU PUT MINIMAL EFFORT IN PRACTICE, TURN AIM ASSIST ON, RUN GEAR OF LOWEST QUALITY, THEN COMPLAIN WHEN FANTASY OF BE LIKE AMERICAN MOVIE GUY JOHN RAMBO FALL TO ****. SO YOU BLAME LAST WEAPON TO KILL YOU, THEN ASK CCP TO ADD SEX DILDO TO WEAPON SO MASS DRIVER USER MUST **** OWN ******** BEFORE LOB ONE ROUND.

MASS DRIVER IS FINE. YOU **** IT, IT PERFECTLY BALANCED AND NO NERF WILL GET YOU POSITIVE RATIO OF KILL DEATH. PRACTICE WITH COMRADE, LEARN WEAKNESS AND STRENGTH OF WEAPON, DEVELOP YOUR SKILLS. THEN MAYBE YOU NOT NEED DUMB NERF PUT ON ALL WEAPON TO GET SINGLE KILL.

WHY YOU WANT NERF FOR MASS DRIVER? IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH AS PROGRAMMED FROM CROWD CONTROL PRODUCTIONS? YOU THINK IS NEED TWEAK? THEN MAYBE YOU FIND JOB WITH OFFICE OF CCP SHANGHAI! YOU HAVE DRINKS WITH CCP SOUNDWAVE, TRADE STORY OF MANY GAME DESIGNED, DETAILS OF SCHOOL FOR PROGRAMMING, AND LATE NIGHTS CHASING DOWN BUG!

OR MAYBE YOU NOT DO THIS.

PROBABLY IS BECAUSE YOU NEVER DESIGN GAME IN WHOLE LIFE. YOU LOOK AT FINE CCP MASS DRIVER, THINK IT NEED CRAZY NERF BAT ON ALL STATS OF WEAPON. YOU HAVE DISEASE OF ENTITLED WHINER, CHANGE THING THAT IS FINE FOR NO REASON EXCEPT TO GAIN ADVANTAGE OVER MORE SKILLED COMRADE. YOU PUT MINIMAL EFFORT IN PRACTICE, TURN AIM ASSIST ON, RUN GEAR OF LOWEST QUALITY, THEN COMPLAIN WHEN FANTASY OF BE LIKE AMERICAN MOVIE GUY JOHN RAMBO FALL TO ****. SO YOU BLAME LAST WEAPON TO KILL YOU, THEN ASK CCP TO ADD SEX DILDO TO WEAPON SO MASS DRIVER USER MUST **** OWN ******** BEFORE LOB ONE ROUND.

MASS DRIVER IS FINE. YOU **** IT, IT PERFECTLY BALANCED AND NO NERF WILL GET YOU POSITIVE RATIO OF KILL DEATH. PRACTICE WITH COMRADE, LEARN WEAKNESS AND STRENGTH OF WEAPON, DEVELOP YOUR SKILLS. THEN MAYBE YOU NOT NEED DUMB NERF PUT ON ALL WEAPON TO GET SINGLE KILL.