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EXO-7 and Freedom Massdriver are OP...

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ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1729	Posted - 2013.08.22 13:08:00 - [1] - Quote Lol he wasn't even aiming half the time, just shooting forward. MD shotgun baby.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1731	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:08:00 - [2] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Um yea....the problem isnt the fact that the reddots were stupid for continuing to spawn in that location. The problem was that the person using the MD barely had to glance in the general direction of the enemy in order to get a hit. I am not even talking about the amount of dmg but the fact that he can fire the gun into the middle of that area and still hit people in the outskirts of the area and kill them........its just dumb. How you can watch this and not see that there is a problem with the splash radius is beyond me. I just love the fact that you guys act like the MD is hard to use. It makes your "OP AR" comments look ret@rded in comparison. Really AR where you have to actually track your target is easier to use than a weapon where you dont even have to track your target...just point in the general direction and fire. Everytime you fire and hit the enemy they can shoot back as their weapon gets jerked up so they cant return fire....by the time the weapon jerk come back down the MD is ready to fire another round. Yes a good MD can take an AR head to head and win more often than not. well said. +1 In the hands of bad players its probably fine. In the hands of even a halfway skilled player its a problem. Like all explosives... damage fall off exists but its not properly done in this game. Just another thing to add to the list of core mechanics that need to be fixed. Not to mention the continueing 135% armor bonus... hopefully that gets fixed in 1.4.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1731	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:23:00 - [3] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Also, what part are you complaining about? How your gun is effective against bunched up players backed into a corner? Or how it is good at killing players who 5 other guys are stripping the shields off of? Or are you complaining, like you did in the video, that you get hurt when people chuck explosives at you when you and your team are in a close group? You are in THE ideal scenario to use that weapon. That is a barrel you are shooting into and the stupid red-dots are the fish swimming stupidly around, having babies, and swimming around some more. Except instead of shooting you are dropping sticks of dynamite into the barrel. It doesn't support their point to post videos of mass driver users being killed by assault rifles, or committing suicide because you rushed them, or you are standing above them and they can't land a round on you. Having some experience with the weapon now, I agree with you - the counters are fairly easy but unintuitive: - Find an elevated position. It's so hard to hit an elevated opponent with this weapon, even if he's elevated slightly... unless it's a direct hit - which is difficult. - If in close quarters, GET CLOSER. They either kill themselves or have to take out their sidearm - Always count their shots. If it's the standard version, they only have six shots. The reload time on that weapon is long, so rush them accordingly. - Don't bunch up. This weapon was made for squads that hug... 1. elevated positions don't just appear magically out of nowhere, if you are in any sort of CQC on an objective its over. You can't run and you certainly can't find an elevated position. If you're outside of a city socket, there is hardly ever an elevated position, and its usually the side of a hill which is better for an MD. Just wait until strafing is nerfed in 1.4, MDs will be even harder to dodge. I actually killed a shield stacked min assault sprinting away from me with a basic MD... its not that hard to use if you have any skill. 2. you can only get so close before even you cant shoot at them anymore, MDs are good until you are about 2m away, and they have a distinct advantage until then. Even my shield stacked cal logi can only take 4 freedom MD shots before i die... getting closer is usually suicide. 3. I've used it, the reload speed is not that bad, not at all. 4. Bunching up doesn't mean jack, you can 1v1 with the MD easily.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1731	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:26:00 - [4] - Quote low genius wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Also, what part are you complaining about? How your gun is effective against bunched up players backed into a corner? Or how it is good at killing players who 5 other guys are stripping the shields off of? Or are you complaining, like you did in the video, that you get hurt when people chuck explosives at you when you and your team are in a close group? You are in THE ideal scenario to use that weapon. That is a barrel you are shooting into and the stupid red-dots are the fish swimming stupidly around, having babies, and swimming around some more. Except instead of shooting you are dropping sticks of dynamite into the barrel. It doesn't support their point to post videos of mass driver users being killed by assault rifles, or committing suicide because you rushed them, or you are standing above them and they can't land a round on you. sorry, i cant teach the stupid- 150 dmg for shooting in the right direction is wrong, that weapon requires no skill, its sad.... 5m splash damage so if you hit this guy within 5m you automatically so 150 shield damage and like 180 armor damage and shoot twice and this poor guy is dead.... spraying and praying requires more skill than this weapon whereas your ar with aim assist is... hard to use? I challenge to play a couple matches of PC against a solid corp with your AR. See how easy it is to use when your opponent is not a random blueberry and knows how to properly strafe. The AR is not the easy-mode weapon people make it out to be. Its just easy to mow down blueberries with because most of them stand still. I'll give that the AR probably needs more recoil, but 1v1 AR vs MD, the MD has a distinct advantage usually.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1731	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:34:00 - [5] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: I'm not logged in right now. What's the direct and splash damage for a Freedom with skills but no damage mods? Freedom Mass Driver Direct Damage: 266.2 HP Splash Damage: 127.6 HP Blast Radius: 4.4m (5.5m with operation 5) However these stats can't show the full picture. I actually counted last night going against a Freedom Mass Driver, it took him 4 shots to kill me while I was trying to take him down. my hp: 502 Shields 163 Armor Seems mathematically impossible for that to happen no matter how many damage mods you stack. Something is very wrong with explosives damage calculation, I can't imagine any of the hits against me were direct hits either I could see the shots after all.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1732	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:41:00 - [6] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: low genius wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Also, what part are you complaining about? How your gun is effective against bunched up players backed into a corner? Or how it is good at killing players who 5 other guys are stripping the shields off of? Or are you complaining, like you did in the video, that you get hurt when people chuck explosives at you when you and your team are in a close group? You are in THE ideal scenario to use that weapon. That is a barrel you are shooting into and the stupid red-dots are the fish swimming stupidly around, having babies, and swimming around some more. Except instead of shooting you are dropping sticks of dynamite into the barrel. It doesn't support their point to post videos of mass driver users being killed by assault rifles, or committing suicide because you rushed them, or you are standing above them and they can't land a round on you. sorry, i cant teach the stupid- 150 dmg for shooting in the right direction is wrong, that weapon requires no skill, its sad.... 5m splash damage so if you hit this guy within 5m you automatically so 150 shield damage and like 180 armor damage and shoot twice and this poor guy is dead.... spraying and praying requires more skill than this weapon whereas your ar with aim assist is... hard to use? Yes because everyone plays with aim assist on?? I find it to be more annoying then helpful and I have played with aim assist off for months before they removed aim assist (currently there is no aim assist as CCP says its not working just incase you didnt know this). aim assist has been disable iirc, they are bringing it back in 1.4. So that argument doesn't make sense yet. However, we'll have to see how strong aim assist is in 1.4 and if its crazy OP.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1732	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:42:00 - [7] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: I'm not logged in right now. What's the direct and splash damage for a Freedom with skills but no damage mods? Freedom Mass Driver Direct Damage: 266.2 HP Splash Damage: 127.6 HP Blast Radius: 4.4m (5.5m with operation 5) However these stats can't show the full picture. I actually counted last night going against a Freedom Mass Driver, it took him 4 shots to kill me while I was trying to take him down. my hp: 502 Shields 163 Armor Seems mathematically impossible for that to happen no matter how many damage mods you stack. Something is very wrong with explosives damage calculation, I can't imagine any of the hits against me were direct hits either I could see the shots after all. I dont have dust pulled up but the info I have has blast radius for the MD being 4.8 for normal MD and 7.2 for assault...is this not correct? Those are the blast radii from Chromosome if you pulled them off the web. Boundless is now 6.6m
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1732	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:46:00 - [8] - Quote Azura Sakura wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: I'm not logged in right now. What's the direct and splash damage for a Freedom with skills but no damage mods? Freedom Mass Driver Direct Damage: 266.2 HP Splash Damage: 127.6 HP Blast Radius: 4.4m (5.5m with operation 5) However these stats can't show the full picture. I actually counted last night going against a Freedom Mass Driver, it took him 4 shots to kill me while I was trying to take him down. my hp: 502 Shields 163 Armor Seems mathematically impossible for that to happen no matter how many damage mods you stack. Something is very wrong with explosives damage calculation, I can't imagine any of the hits against me were direct hits either I could see the shots after all. At least you don't get 1 shot by a STD Mass Driver because you want to be cool and armor tank . Yeah something is seriously wrong with the MD... that thing cannot perform the way it does with the stats listed. Wish wolfman could take a few minutes to explain how explosive damage fall off worked.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1732	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:49:00 - [9] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: I'm not logged in right now. What's the direct and splash damage for a Freedom with skills but no damage mods? Freedom Mass Driver Direct Damage: 266.2 HP Splash Damage: 127.6 HP Blast Radius: 4.4m (5.5m with operation 5) However these stats can't show the full picture. I actually counted last night going against a Freedom Mass Driver, it took him 4 shots to kill me while I was trying to take him down. my hp: 502 Shields 163 Armor Seems mathematically impossible for that to happen no matter how many damage mods you stack. Something is very wrong with explosives damage calculation, I can't imagine any of the hits against me were direct hits either I could see the shots after all. You're sure nothing else hit you? It was 1v1, I watched my health go down cause I knew my logi wouldn't have the move speed to dodge his rounds. Unless each shot was timed perfect with the MD explosions and nothing else hit... yeah. I'll say im 95% sure nothing else hit me.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1732	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:53:00 - [10] - Quote Another thing i've noticed, I know other people in TP have noticed this. My shield stacked cal logi 502/163 will often taken 900 damage from a core locus and i'll be one shot. I've heard similar reports from other shield stacked players as well. Something is seriously wrong with explosives in this game. i've been hit by a militia locus for 600 damage before too. Either situation is mathematically impossible as well, same with how I died in 4 shots from that freedom MD.

ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1732	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:04:00 - [11] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Someone needs to do a controlled test. That someone should be CCP of course but if you posted a video showing one shot at a time from a Freedom and counted the damage it could help. Wolfman said he already tested and found no problems, he couldn't replicate what Aeon found in his video of testing on Oceania.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1732	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:08:00 - [12] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Another thing i've noticed, I know other people in TP have noticed this. My shield stacked cal logi 502/163 will often taken 900 damage from a core locus and i'll be one shot. I've heard similar reports from other shield stacked players as well. Something is seriously wrong with explosives in this game. i've been hit by a militia locus for 600 damage before too. Either situation is mathematically impossible as well, same with how I died in 4 shots from that freedom MD. The problem with LAVs killing was the collision system registering the hit many times amplifying the damage done to crazy levels. I'd interested to know how the explosion damage was 'fixed' going from only detecting on a plane to being a sphere. Hopefully, it wasn't the same programmer. ;-) The Core Locus does 600 damage, so about 480 to shields. You should have had something left over. LAVs have nothing to do with I posted, unless you mean to say you think there is a similar bug with explosives applying damage multiple times? Even if I had all armor a Core locus cannot do 900 damage, that's a 50% bonus straight through. Something aint right.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1733	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:18:00 - [13] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: LAVs have nothing to do with I posted, unless you mean to say you think there is a similar bug with explosives applying damage multiple times? Even if I had all armor a Core locus cannot do 900 damage, that's a 50% bonus straight through. Something aint right. Right. Just speculating that the damage could be applied multiple times like with the current LAV bug. A lot of people still speculate that direct and splash damage will stack in some cases.. I also wonder if the game is accidentally calculating and applying the splash damage to two difference 'damage points' on each players ragdoll. We already know that splash damage is calculated by 'searching' for certain points on a body and calculating range that way... its very possible its finding multiple points and applying damage multiple times? Interesting speculation.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1733	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:20:00 - [14] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: erhaps.....I think its kinda weird because we are in dropsuit can can drop from orbit and land unharmed on the planets surface....it seems odd that a small explosive would cause you to jerk (this is also why getting run over by an LAV does not make sense to me in this game). The biggest problem with balance is really the AOE..I would be willing to wait to see if a change to AOE would be enough to balance this weapon b4 anything else is done. When you drop you activate an inertial dampener to counter the fall. This brings up an interesting idea: activating the dampener when explosive weapons are being chucked your way as a counter. Maybe it would be a defensive module designed to counter them and you could switch to a suit fitted with them when you find yourself facing an enemy that is relying on them. Eh, crazy idea. Just putting it out there. It would be too complex....CCP cant even get the ground right so you get stuck on it...you really think they would get this to be done correctly? They do get it right eventually.. it just usually takes 4-5 patches lol.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1733	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:27:00 - [15] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Really?? Because you still get stuck on the ground and that was a problem in August 2012 when I started playing.......... Yeah.... well I'm sure moving to uprising didn't help at all... so give them 4-5 more patches to fix the ground stick issues. I know they are working on a new system to find these problems.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1734	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:39:00 - [16] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: Really?? Because you still get stuck on the ground and that was a problem in August 2012 when I started playing.......... Yeah.... well I'm sure moving to uprising didn't help at all... so give them 4-5 more patches to fix the ground stick issues. I know they are working on a new system to find these problems. Must be part of their 5 year plan......... lol too true.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1740	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:38:00 - [17] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: That's pretty simply. When you touch in direct hit the Blast damage AND direct damage are stacked. You were touch 4 times IN DIRECT ! Pretty normal that you die..... If this is in response to my post, then if that's true CCP needs to figure out their hitboxes. No way I was hit direct 4 times in a row. The rounds don't travel that fast its not hard to dodge the actual round, even if its next to impossible to dodge the splash damage.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1740	Posted - 2013.08.22 19:05:00 - [18] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: That's pretty simply. When you touch in direct hit the Blast damage AND direct damage are stacked. You were touch 4 times IN DIRECT ! Pretty normal that you die..... In urpising we've been totally nerfed (20% of damage and radius) And don't forget that 4 shots is 3/4 of the mag and the MD has a huge reload. This weapon is not totally overpowered because alone without Flux a MD can't win a 1vs1 with same skill point. And there's too much cases where the MD is useless.... -At less than 4 meters the user will kill himself 1/2. -If the ennemy is higher than the MD it will be almost impossible to kill. -On PC the MD can't help allies at CQC because it will make a lot of teamkill. -On shield ennemy without Flux. -If using flux in 1/2 of cases it will kill the alilies shield if near the ennemy. The MD is an weapon perfect on squad (squad team MUST destroy the shield before the MD start shooting) BUT i'm according to the fact than the blast Radius is maybe too much high on the proto version with the Level 5 of use. It should be retrogated from one level. (Proto will have the radius of an actual ADV and ADV of an STD.) The damage is fine don't forget than it's an primary weapon and that if the radius is downgraded the blast damage will be perfet and not abused. and don't forget that it's a weapon with a lot of drawbacks. And finally than the MD has been nerfed one time ago... So your agreeing that the blast radius is to high? All that is being called for right now is to change the blast radius on the normal MD to 4.5 (down from 5.5) and the blast radius on the assault MD to 6.5-7.0 (down from 8.25). I dont want the MD destroyed to make it unusable....I just want it to also not be OP as it is in its current state (I have std lvl MD and I just pwn proto suits like they are nothing.......its actually laughably sad). I think an elegant fix to this would be to change MD operation to something not radius related. This was the same problem the flaylock had too.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1743	Posted - 2013.08.22 20:00:00 - [19] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Honestly the best fix would be to completely overhaul the weapon. Remove the direct hit bonus and make the gun do X damages at its center with the blast dmg degrading as you move away from the center. Also it should not degrade in a straight light...the degradation should be slow at first and then increase rapidly. If your half way between the max radius for dmg and the center of the explosion you should not take 50% of the dmg...it should be more like 35-40% of dmg and the very edges should barely even tickle your shields. Damage should be calculated by a gaussian curve imo, I agree direct damage should be done away with. All explosives should be like this, i've made numerous posts about how explosive damage fall off is not right in this game. I do also think that the MD is probably mostly OP because it suffers no hit detection issues like most hit scan weapons in this game. It takes 4 MD rounds to knock out my suit, which is 2/3 of a clip. When a well strafed 1v1 battles can easily go 1.5 - 2 clips of the AR because aiming and hit detection is so bad.