You know, I read somewhere that eve-o is the only MMO out there that has consistently shown a rise in subscribers each year.

Having a real job and life makes paying for something like this easy. The fact that I can skill up passively is just a plus.

New Eden is not always about having fun, it's about building things and destroying things together.
It might be a sad waste of life to play games by yourself all day, but I'm spending it with half a million other people, and IMO time spent with friends is never wasted.

Well said.

I didn't come to New Eden to play someone else's story. I came to make my own journey, to forge my own path with the tools of the game. The friendships and rivalries I have made here count for something. I've met and traveled all over the world and hang out with plenty of my friends and their families, with New Eden being the common bond between us.

Dust and EVE are strong, emotional games to me. I have been through long droughts, and found oasis few and far between, but those moments of gaming, those singular, powerful conflicts and revelations have been experiences greater than any other game I have ever played or enjoyed.

The people make the games, and the games are the people.

imo

Agree with you, I come to play my story, not someone elses.
Having to absolutely join a corp to enjoy the game does not allow me to do this.

To make this constructive...
EVE needs to protect non-corp players from the assholes that infest the community.

Typing this from phone atm. So I'll be back to elaborate more on what I mean.

To make this constructive...
EVE needs to protect non-corp players from the assholes that infest the community.
I.E. if I have not joined a corp. I'm not interested in pvp.

Because I realize that life is to short to keep reading the same book or playing the same game over and over and over again.
Especially when there's new books/games being released every week.

.

sorry, I have to bust out the >implying.

>implying this is the only space MMO
>implying this is the only game with a skill or point cap
>implying you have to grind more than you want to
>implying that this is the first MMO to employ timesinks
>implying you're not allowed to take a break from the game
>implying you won't accumulate SP when you do take a break
>implying this game has a subscription fee


>implying you've experienced what this game has to offer having NEVER left your NPC corp.

"Ikomari-Onu Enforcement 2013.02.13 09:28 to this day"

No other corps in the employment history.



There's lots of protections. In fact, in a NPC corp you're better protected from any possible abuses than being anywhere else. The thing is, its just not as interesting, and there's not quite as much to do (although there is a lot, at least in Eve). So show me on the doll where the evil player corporation touched you.

You know, I read somewhere that eve-o is the only MMO out there that has consistently shown a rise in subscribers each year.

You're taking a little too much interest in my history with this game.

Let me make it a littler easier for you. I've put a grand total of about 40 days into EvE. Stopped playing that the moment I realized its nothing but greifers camping low-sec.

I've put a grand total of 2 games into Dust. Stopped playing that the moment I realized they modeled it after EvE.

Now, I'm not saying EvE is completely bad. Only certain parts. Such as what I just described.

Basically. The reason you only have Half a million people contributing to your little fantasy world, is because CCP is too lazy to regulate the PVP side of things. And I don't mean a complete lock down on PVP. Some unregulated PVP is fine. And that entails the Backstabbing within Corps, etc.

But...as in my case, I'm still learning the game on my own time, completely disinterested in the PVP until such time that I am ready.
That's to say... that I will eventually get involved into a Human Corporation and partake in PVP against other Human controlled Corporations in the future. But until I make the commitment to join a Human Corp.... I don't need random assholes greifing me, just because I entered a low-sec area of space.
And they got nothing better to do than to camp that particular entrance. That is not an enjoyable experience for me. Nor can I imagine it being enjoyable for anyone else who is new at the game and still figuring out what "path" I want to take.
And I want to figure out that "Path" on my own. I don't want or need the advice of other people telling me what the "Meta game" is, because then there is no point in me playing the game anymore if I have to follow someone elses advice to "Enjoy" it.

An MMO with unregulated PVP is nothing more than a haven to promote assholes. Your basically giving a green light to say, it's completely OK to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game (especially newer players) which is exactly what happened to me. It's not fun to waste time grinding for something just to lose it for no other reason than, I entered a low-sec area of space.


In other words.....
Just a little regulation on PVP would go a LOOOOOOOOONG way.
I would probably still play EvE if CCP wasn't so ******* lazy in that regard.
And no..... what is currently in place with the high-sec vs low-sec, isn't even close to what would be considered regulated.

Regulated in EvE would mean....
Unless Player A is part of a Human Controlled Corporation, they cannot initiate an attack on another player, nor be attacked by another player.

Simple. Effective.

And it makes PVP more in line with what PVP should be. Players who have consented to that aspect of the game. Instead of the greifing contest that EvE currently comes off as in which.... newer players are chased away because of it...

IE. If greifers were put in check... your Half a Million userbase, would probably be 5x times bigger. You, would have beaten World of Warcraft.

Oh, but.. I forget.... The average mentality of an EvE player is in line with keeping the population smaller so they can somehow feel special about it. Which....makes no ******* sense whatsoever.

And I fully understand that this is the Dust Forum. But I also understand that currently.... The only people playing Dust.. are Diehard EvE fanboys ....
....the perfect audience for me to put my point across too.






I know what you're all about to say. This opens the door for Spies to infiltrate your systems. There are solutions to that.. But as I said. CCP is too lazy to bother. It's easier to just let the greifers run amok.

dear sir eos,

if the devs of 514 built the game based on YOUR guidelines, you'd still find something to whine about. nerf this, nerf that, SP takes too long to accrue, i want a respec..............so instead of starting another one of these threads, why don't you just contribute to one of the hundred other threads just like this one.

[


You're taking a little too much interest in my history with this game.

Let me make it a littler easier for you. I've put a grand total of about 40 days into EvE. Stopped playing that the moment I realized its nothing but greifers camping low-sec.

I've put a grand total of 2 games into Dust. Stopped playing that the moment I realized they modeled it after EvE.

Now, I'm not saying EvE is completely bad. Only certain parts. Such as what I just described.

Basically. The reason you only have Half a million people contributing to your little fantasy world, is because CCP is too lazy to regulate the PVP side of things. And I don't mean a complete lock down on PVP. Some unregulated PVP is fine. And that entails the Backstabbing within Corps, etc.

But...as in my case, I'm still learning the game on my own time, completely disinterested in the PVP until such time that I am ready.
That's to say... that I will eventually get involved into a Human Corporation and partake in PVP against other Human controlled Corporations in the future. But until I make the commitment to join a Human Corp.... I don't need random assholes greifing me, just because I entered a low-sec area of space.
And they got nothing better to do than to camp that particular entrance. That is not an enjoyable experience for me. Nor can I imagine it being enjoyable for anyone else who is new at the game and still figuring out what "path" I want to take.
And I want to figure out that "Path" on my own. I don't want or need the advice of other people telling me what the "Meta game" is, because then there is no point in me playing the game anymore if I have to follow someone elses advice to "Enjoy" it.

An MMO with unregulated PVP is nothing more than a haven to promote assholes. Your basically giving a green light to say, it's completely OK to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game (especially newer players) which is exactly what happened to me. It's not fun to waste time grinding for something just to lose it for no other reason than, I entered a low-sec area of space.


In other words.....
Just a little regulation on PVP would go a LOOOOOOOOONG way.
I would probably still play EvE if CCP wasn't so ******* lazy in that regard.
And no..... what is currently in place with the high-sec vs low-sec, isn't even close to what would be considered regulated.

Regulated in EvE would mean....
Unless Player A is part of a Human Controlled Corporation, they cannot initiate an attack on another player, nor be attacked by another player.

Simple. Effective.

And it makes PVP more in line with what PVP should be. Players who have consented to that aspect of the game. Instead of the greifing contest that EvE currently comes off as in which.... newer players are chased away because of it...

IE. If greifers were put in check... your Half a Million userbase, would probably be 5x times bigger. You, would have beaten World of Warcraft.

Oh, but.. I forget.... The average mentality of an EvE player is in line with keeping the population smaller so they can somehow feel special about it. Which....makes no ******* sense whatsoever.

And I fully understand that this is the Dust Forum. But I also understand that currently.... The only people playing Dust.. are Diehard EvE fanboys ....
....the perfect audience for me to put my point across too.






I know what you're all about to say. This opens the door for Spies to infiltrate your systems. There are solutions to that.. But as I said. CCP is too lazy to bother. It's easier to just let the greifers run amok.

The fail in this post is just too much, how can you comment on something when you have spent so little time on them. I've never played eve myself but is 40 days not only slightly longer than the trial period? And 2 games of dust? That's not even half an hours playing, you can't judge something off such a shallow experience.

And there's something you need to understand, CCP aren't "too lazy" to regulate PvP, it's unregulated as a deliberate design choice, the "HTFU" and "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" mentalities didn't come about by accident. You could say that eve is somewhat like real life in that regard, sometimes **** happens and you have no choice but to deal with the consequences.

And did you really say "only half a million people" you say that like its a bad thing. This game has over 500,000 accounts paying a monthly fee of what? -ú15? That comes to -ú7,500,000 a month!!! It's more than enough for CCP to keep on going. And unlike every other game out there, every single one of those accounts exist on the same server. Sure WoW might have the higher numbers but they're split across hundreds of servers, eve is different, eve is unique. The fact that it has unregulated PvP is one of its most important features, by the way, how can you say "a little unregulated PvP is fine" but then call for regulation for PvP in the same post?

The fact is Eve doesn't suffer fools, if you fly a bling ship you have no right to complain when someone ganks you, if your inexperience makes you wander into a system you should have avoided, well it's tough luck but you live and you learn. One of the things that attract me to eve is how the game doesn't hold your hand like pretty much everything else out there, as soon as I get a PC I'm gonna download the trial for it, will probably even subscribe to it.

In other words, if you want to play eve you have to have a "HTFU" mentality, not because your an *******, because their are assholes out there, both in real life and in games, accept it, deal with it, move on having learnt something from the encounter.

This is incorrect. MMOs that forgo the whole RPG style XP/leveling system do not have much of a "nerf that buff this" problem.

When was the last time you read someone bitching to jeb about a cobblestone nerf in minecraft?

With Dayz the biggest issues even coming close are the players say the some items are too common and the game should be harder....of course they mean harder actual game play...not longer pointless grinds.

So many problems come from CCP's choice to use SP in EvE/Dust it makes me think the OP is correct in pointing out that the reason for this is not for compelling game play but to milk players for money.

I don't always double post.

But when I do, it's to laugh my ass off at tripe like this.

You did notice that warning prompt the game puts up that says that you should be careful going into low-sec, right? The one that WON'T LET YOU JUMP THROUGH THE GATE until you dismiss it?

Warning or not. If the playerbase of EvE represents how man would act as a glactic civilization in the future.

...

You figure it out.

500k to 6-7 bil is a decent enuogh sample size.

Attack first ask questions never is the game I played or experienced.

Has nothing to do with sucking at the game. It had everything to do with CCP not regulating the assholes.

Congratulations, you played a MMO for 40 days without involving yourself with other people, then complain when you venture into dangerous space, where more seasoned players go to shoot each other, and complain that you were 'griefed' though the game clearly warns you that it's dangerous.

It's no different than making a brand new character on your favourite fantasy MMO, then wandering into PVP areas, only to be swiftly obliterated by high level characters. EVE is not unique in this, nor is it a problem for any player who takes the time to read what is presented to him, and think about his actions.

I'll bet you never even read through the tutorials completely.

Wrong forum OP.

I've put a grand total of 2 games into Dust. Stopped playing that the moment I realized they modeled it after EvE.

Warning or not. If the playerbase of EvE represents how man would act as a glactic civilization in the future.

.

I'll just leave this link here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q

Edit: Hey look at that. 1 more like to break my 514 virginity

Did. I also fully understood the dangers, knew exactly where I was going. I had spent 40 days in low sec areas. It was time to see what the "REAL" game was like.

And as I said.

What I saw was players who

Attack first, ask questions never.

It was 1 giant douchbag circle-jerk.

"Be the Villain" they advertise for this franchise.

Sometimes, to be more successful, you have to think about more than just a "Group" of players and think about people who don't have YEARS TO DEDICATE to the game. I'm already what... 7 years behind? What makes you think a new player is gonna pick this up and stick with it knowing such information. That's why after 7 years you still haven't broken 1 million.

For being the ONLY space MMO out there.... says alot.

You'd think with as unique as it is, being the only Space Simulation MMO on the market, it'd be doing better than it currently is.

No other game offers such a huge Space Simulation MMO.

So, when you feel confident in trodding along with a small but consistent user-base (This includes Dust and EVE). Don't.
Because you could be doing .... SO MUCH BETTER.

And I think you all know the reasons why you are not.

1. A Game Community built around the idea of being assholes to each other with phrases such as HTFU.

2. A Giant worthless timesink grinding mechanic designed to make you spend as much time as possible waiting to get to the cool stuff all while charging a monthly fee.

It's really not a thinking mans game to be honest. It's a.. I have no life kind of game.

A Real thinking man, would see the timesink for what it is.
A greedy attempt to get you to subscribe to that monthly fee and keep you there for as long as possible.

Is there a reason you must dedicate your life to one game? Is there some kind of reward to say that you've played a single game for 50 years?

Hell over the past 20 years, I've played hundreds if not thousands of games.
You know why?
Because I realize that life is to short to keep reading the same book or playing the same game over and over and over again.
Especially when there's new books/games being released every week.

But I'm gonna waste money subscribing to a game that makes me wait weeks just to train 1 skill up 1 level.

It's pathetic.

Props to you CCP for suckering em in. Can't blame em though really, You are the only Space MMO out there.


That is all. Have fun thinking you are cool and elite because you play such a worthless game.

Did. I also fully understood the dangers, knew exactly where I was going. I had spent 40 days in low sec areas. It was time to see what the "REAL" game was like.

And as I said.

What I saw was players who

Attack first, ask questions never.

It was 1 giant douchbag circle-jerk.

"Be the Villain" they advertise for this franchise.

Sometimes, to be more successful, you have to think about more than just a "Group" of players and think about people who don't have YEARS TO DEDICATE to the game. I'm already what... 7 years behind? What makes you think a new player is gonna pick this up and stick with it knowing such information. That's why after 7 years you still haven't broken 1 million. Awesome game btw. Just horrible execution. You built it for the worst part of the internet.

Basically....

New Eden Population = Youtube Trolls = Gltichers on Console FPS's = Campers/AFK'rs/Team Betrayers/Douchbags/etc.

I guess I should be thankful. That's Half a Million less of you ruining other games.

Did. I also fully understood the dangers, knew exactly where I was going. I had spent 40 days in low sec areas. It was time to see what the "REAL" game was like.

And as I said.

What I saw was players who

Attack first, ask questions never.

It was 1 giant douchbag circle-jerk.

"Be the Villain" they advertise for this franchise.

Sometimes, to be more successful, you have to think about more than just a "Group" of players and think about people who don't have YEARS TO DEDICATE to the game. I'm already what... 7 years behind? What makes you think a new player is gonna pick this up and stick with it knowing such information. That's why after 7 years you still haven't broken 1 million. Awesome game btw. Just horrible execution. You built it for the worst part of the internet.

Basically....

New Eden Population = Youtube Trolls = Gltichers on Console FPS's = Campers/AFK'rs/Team Betrayers/Douchbags/etc.

I guess I should be thankful. That's Half a Million less of you ruining other games.

That's your excuse?

First guy I ever killed one on one had 30 million skillpoints to my 8.

Next kill I got required some friends to come in and help me, but it was against a 105 million SP character in a Strategic (Tech-III) Cruiser, and I was at 10 million and flying a Tech-I cruiser. I survived against his fire and held him down for my allies to come and blow him up.

You can get all the way up to the 440 something million the game has at its max, and you can still be killed by a frigate flown by a 4 week player.

Ultimately, my point is this...

Everyone talks **** about games made for "Casuals" because they somehow drag down online gaming with their stupidity. Or some **** like that.

But the reality is, it is exactly the type of people who play and enjoy the "Meta" of games like EvE and Dust that drag down online gaming.



there is a difference between Playing a game like CoD in which the point is to technically do an evil deed to another player. That is the only choice given in that game. Until the person takes advantage of glitches, with all the effects that stem from that.

Compared to the PVP that takes place in New Eden. Which is truly beyond the boundaries of the game world in terms of the "Meta". The only game where losing something could possibly actually lead to player commiting suicide. I can see something like that happening in a game like this. I would never get that angry. But, I cannot speak for all Half a Million of your users.

Ultimately, my point is this...

Everyone talks **** about games made for "Casuals" because they somehow drag down online gaming with their stupidity. Or some **** like that.

But the reality is, it is exactly the type of people who play and enjoy the "Meta" of games like EvE and Dust that drag down online gaming.



there is a difference between Playing a game like CoD in which the point is to technically do an evil deed to another player. That is the only choice given in that game. Until the person takes advantage of glitches, with all the effects that stem from that.

Compared to the PVP that takes place in New Eden. Which is truly beyond the boundaries of the game world in terms of the "Meta". The only game where losing something could possibly actually lead to player commiting suicide. I can see something like that happening in a game like this. I would never get that angry. But, I cannot speak for all Half a Million of your users.

I don't think you understand.

I never played Ultima Online for the very fact it had nearly unregulated PVP.
Runescape.... uhhhh.... NO!
I've dealt with these kinds of games before. They are, all the same.

You play, for the sole purpose that one day, you can take your advantage and camp at a bottleneck to the "Good Parts of the game" use it against someone at a disadvantage,( usually an extreme disadvantage) for the sole purpose of pissing that random person off.

IE. You play so that one day you can just start greifing other players.

Most News Bulletins coming out of your game, are a testament to this fact.

This game is advertised based on that fact.

I pity all of you.

I don't think you understand.

I never played Ultima Online for the very fact it had nearly unregulated PVP.
Runescape.... uhhhh.... NO!
I've dealt with these kinds of games before. They are, all the same.

You play, for the sole purpose that one day, you can take your advantage and camp at a bottleneck to the "Good Parts of the game" use it against someone at a disadvantage,( usually an extreme disadvantage) for the sole purpose of pissing that random person off.

IE. You play so that one day you can just start greifing other players.

Most News Bulletins coming out of your game, are a testament to this fact.

This game is advertised based on that fact.

I pity all of you.

Oh please go on

Yes please do, this is hilarious. And if you play any online game you will see griefing, it's everywhere, you don't even have to look hard.

Self-entitled OP is hilariously self-entitled.

Yes, the ONLY reason the game could have this kind of design is to try and coerce people into spending all their money.

Somewhere along the line this "murder in every face" mentality stopped being funny and got to the point of being ******* pathetic.

I don't think you understand.

I never played Ultima Online for the very fact it had nearly unregulated PVP.
Runescape.... uhhhh.... NO!
I've dealt with these kinds of games before. They are, all the same.

You play, for the sole purpose that one day, you can take your advantage and camp at a bottleneck to the "Good Parts of the game" use it against someone at a disadvantage,( usually an extreme disadvantage) for the sole purpose of pissing that random person off.

IE. You play so that one day you can just start greifing other players.

Most News Bulletins coming out of your game, are a testament to this fact.

This game is advertised based on that fact.

I pity all of you.

Duh.

But EvE takes it much further. EvE somehow thinks its a contest to see who can get the most douchebags to subscribe.

For being the ONLY space MMO out there.... says alot.

You'd think with as unique as it is, being the only Space Simulation MMO on the market, it'd be doing better than it currently is.

No other game offers such a huge Space Simulation MMO.

So, when you feel confident in trodding along with a small but consistent user-base (This includes Dust and EVE). Don't.
Because you could be doing .... SO MUCH BETTER.

And I think you all know the reasons why you are not.

1. A Game Community built around the idea of being assholes to each other with phrases such as HTFU.

2. A Giant worthless timesink grinding mechanic designed to make you spend as much time as possible waiting to get to the cool stuff all while charging a monthly fee.

It's really not a thinking mans game to be honest. It's a.. I have no life kind of game.

A Real thinking man, would see the timesink for what it is.
A greedy attempt to get you to subscribe to that monthly fee and keep you there for as long as possible.

Is there a reason you must dedicate your life to one game? Is there some kind of reward to say that you've played a single game for 50 years?

Hell over the past 20 years, I've played hundreds if not thousands of games.
You know why?
Because I realize that life is to short to keep reading the same book or playing the same game over and over and over again.
Especially when there's new books/games being released every week.

But I'm gonna waste money subscribing to a game that makes me wait weeks just to train 1 skill up 1 level.

It's pathetic.

Props to you CCP for suckering em in. Can't blame em though really, You are the only Space MMO out there.


That is all. Have fun thinking you are cool and elite because you play such a worthless game.

If we were talking about WoW then i would say they were not milking as leveling in that game you get to see the huge library of content that WoW has accumulated over the years.

for Dust there is no content. You learn the maps in a week and the that is it. EvE has a crap load of grinding content but it is mining and exploring....how long does it take to get the hang of that? a month?

What reason if not to milk money from players is there this huge gap of time in both games between mastering its mechanics and then moving on to end game?

With DayZ the game is the end game.

With minecraft you have to actually do stuff to get to end game....and the end game is jus a boss fight...the end game is not an end to itself but doing the stuff to get there is the game....and in fact in most servers that end game is removed and there is no end game.

With Dust or with EvE there is no reason in terms of actual game play to put up that gate.

Agree with you, I come to play my story, not someone elses.
Having to absolutely join a corp to enjoy the game does not allow me to do this.

To make this constructive...
EVE needs to protect non-corp players from the assholes that infest the community.
I.E. if I have not joined a corp. I'm not interested in pvp.

Typing this from phone atm. So I'll be back to elaborate more on what I mean. If neccesary.

No one ever reads the same book or plays the same game? So the Bible is thrown out and every sport ever played. How long did it take you to full prestige in cod? Platinum The Last of Us? Play poker? Every fps is a remake of the original with better graphics and audio. Why so angry about a game? Being a vet of thousands of game should have taught you that they are made for fun.

You have just described every single game in existence, and life as well tbh. I pity you, are you sure you should be playing games?

The goal of games is to win, you do that by maximising your advantage, the same thing happens in life, you do your best to get yourself in the best position you can, with little regard how getting to that position will affect others around you.

Minecraft and DayZ are not like that. I guess in dayz you can get the better weapons but you can still be killed by a noob with an ax. In Minecraft if you play PvP a noob could set a trap and kill you...it also depends on how the server is configured.

I think he is talking about an SP advantage which has nothing to do with smarts or game play....you get it simply by being here longer then the players you gank.

This really comes down to how bad the whole SP/leveling system is for Dust...for EvE already sucks in my mind because you don't actually pilot your ship....how boring is that....but yeah if i actually liked the game play of EvE the SP/leveling system would be pile of crap as well.

Minecraft and DayZ are not like that. I guess in dayz you can get the better weapons but you can still be killed by a noob with an ax. In Minecraft if you play PvP a noob could set a trap and kill you...it also depends on how the server is configured.

I think he is talking about an SP advantage which has nothing to do with smarts or game play....you get it simply by being here longer then the players you gank.

This really comes down to how bad the whole SP/leveling system is for Dust...for EvE already sucks in my mind because you don't actually pilot your ship....how boring is that....but yeah if i actually liked the game play of EvE the SP/leveling system would be pile of crap as well.

You're taking a little too much interest in my history with this game.

Let me make it a littler easier for you. I've put a grand total of about 40 days into EvE. Stopped playing that the moment I realized its nothing but greifers camping low-sec.

I've put a grand total of 2 games into Dust. Stopped playing that the moment I realized they modeled it after EvE.

Now, I'm not saying EvE is completely bad. Only certain parts. Such as what I just described.

Basically. The reason you only have Half a million people contributing to your little fantasy world, is because CCP is too lazy to regulate the PVP side of things. And I don't mean a complete lock down on PVP. Some unregulated PVP is fine. And that entails the Backstabbing within Corps, etc.

But...as in my case, I'm still learning the game on my own time, completely disinterested in the PVP until such time that I am ready.
That's to say... that I will eventually get involved into a Human Corporation and partake in PVP against other Human controlled Corporations in the future. But until I make the commitment to join a Human Corp.... I don't need random assholes greifing me, just because I entered a low-sec area of space.
And they got nothing better to do than to camp that particular entrance. That is not an enjoyable experience for me. Nor can I imagine it being enjoyable for anyone else who is new at the game and still figuring out what "path" I want to take.
And I want to figure out that "Path" on my own. I don't want or need the advice of other people telling me what the "Meta game" is, because then there is no point in me playing the game anymore if I have to follow someone elses advice to "Enjoy" it.

An MMO with unregulated PVP is nothing more than a haven to promote assholes. Your basically giving a green light to say, it's completely OK to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game (especially newer players) which is exactly what happened to me. It's not fun to waste time grinding for something just to lose it for no other reason than, I entered a low-sec area of space.


In other words.....
Just a little regulation on PVP would go a LOOOOOOOOONG way.
I would probably still play EvE if CCP wasn't so ******* lazy in that regard.
And no..... what is currently in place with the high-sec vs low-sec, isn't even close to what would be considered regulated.

Regulated in EvE would mean....
Unless Player A is part of a Human Controlled Corporation, they cannot initiate an attack on another player, nor be attacked by another player.

Simple. Effective.

And it makes PVP more in line with what PVP should be. Players who have consented to that aspect of the game. Instead of the greifing contest that EvE currently comes off as in which.... newer players are chased away because of it...

IE. If greifers were put in check... your Half a Million userbase, would probably be 5x times bigger. You, would have beaten World of Warcraft.

Oh, but.. I forget.... The average mentality of an EvE player is in line with keeping the population smaller so they can somehow feel special about it. Which....makes no ******* sense whatsoever.

And I fully understand that this is the Dust Forum. But I also understand that currently.... The only people playing Dust.. are Diehard EvE fanboys ....
....the perfect audience for me to put my point across too.






I know what you're all about to say. This opens the door for Spies to infiltrate your systems. There are solutions to that.. But as I said. CCP is too lazy to bother. It's easier to just let the greifers run amok.

[
So I assume the fact that I don't feel like I'm gated means I'm just a scrub and my thoughts don't matter?

The intent of both of these games is to provide a sandbox where the players do whatever they wish. Dust doesn't have that right now, but EVE has had it in spades for years, and that's part of why I never played another MMO up until last year.

I still prefer EVE over the others I play because it doesn't try to force people to play a certain way or "play nice with each other". It's an open world for all of us to do with as we see fit, and that's what makes it different.

Does that make it harder for new players to get into? Yes.

Does that make it automatically bad? No.

By advantage I meant literally that, every thing you can get, be it numbers, level, sp, position, weapons, gear etc. I will admit that there are issues with the current gear and SP setup though, I made a whole thread on the gear side of things a week ago.

This is incorrect. MMOs that forgo the whole RPG style XP/leveling system do not have much of a "nerf that buff this" problem.

When was the last time you read someone bitching to jeb about a cobblestone nerf in minecraft?

With Dayz the biggest issues even coming close are the players say the some items are too common and the game should be harder....of course they mean harder actual game play...not longer pointless grinds.

So many problems come from CCP's choice to use SP in EvE/Dust it makes me think the OP is correct in pointing out that the reason for this is not for compelling game play but to milk players for money.

The fail in this post is just too much, how can you comment on something when you have spent so little time on them. I've never played eve myself but is 40 days not only slightly longer than the trial period? And 2 games of dust? That's not even half an hours playing, you can't judge something off such a shallow experience.

And there's something you need to understand, CCP aren't "too lazy" to regulate PvP, it's unregulated as a deliberate design choice, the "HTFU" and "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" mentalities didn't come about by accident. You could say that eve is somewhat like real life in that regard, sometimes **** happens and you have no choice but to deal with the consequences.

And did you really say "only half a million people" you say that like its a bad thing. This game has over 500,000 accounts paying a monthly fee of what? -ú15? That comes to -ú7,500,000 a month!!! It's more than enough for CCP to keep on going. And unlike every other game out there, every single one of those accounts exist on the same server. Sure WoW might have the higher numbers but they're split across hundreds of servers, eve is different, eve is unique. The fact that it has unregulated PvP is one of its most important features, by the way, how can you say "a little unregulated PvP is fine" but then call for regulation for PvP in the same post?

The fact is Eve doesn't suffer fools, if you fly a bling ship you have no right to complain when someone ganks you, if your inexperience makes you wander into a system you should have avoided, well it's tough luck but you live and you learn. One of the things that attract me to eve is how the game doesn't hold your hand like pretty much everything else out there, as soon as I get a PC I'm gonna download the trial for it, will probably even subscribe to it.

In other words, if you want to play eve you have to have a "HTFU" mentality, not because your an *******, because their are assholes out there, both in real life and in games, accept it, deal with it, move on having learnt something from the encounter.

I'm a little confused as to what you were expecting when going into Low-Sec space. If, knowing the dangers of the area, you decided to go anyway what were you looking to accomplish? How would your experience in Low-Sec needed to be different for you to have come to a different conclusion?

You say you were looking for the good part of the game but I'm curious as to what your idea of the "good part" was supposed to be.

~

Regardless, I guess I'll take the time to share my short experience in EVE Online. This is the story of Gregory Seldon, a wide-eyed young capsuleer looking for a little danger. I, like you, got to a point within my trial where I decided to take a field trip to low-sec space, if for nothing else than to satisfy my curiosity. I knew the dangers, knew what I was putting at risk by putting myself in low sec, but also was attracted to the rarer minerals in the area that I could mine and sell back in the newbie area. The risk was, in my eyes, a worthwhile one. So I set up my ratting ship with 3 mining lasers (I know, lol) and went off to collect some ore. Of course I wasn't conditioned to check things like my local scanner so I was caught unaware when I was warp scrambled and promptly killed before I knew what was going on.

Rufis Malone was the villain I had met this day and his friend was taking light jabs at my predicament. I was a little Rabbit who'd wandered into a Wolves Den, they had initially thought that was a Scout/Bait ship for a larger fleet but with no one showing up in local after me they had dismissed that possibility. We got into a conversation sometime afterward and I took their pokes in stride, I knew the risks and had payed my price and I explained to them that I didn't blame them. A moment later I check my wallet and see a 10m ISK deposit straight into my account. Rufis Malone had gifted me, a complete stranger who's ship he'd blown up mere minutes before, for completely unknown reasons. Before I can respond he says something I'll probably always remember from my experience with EVE, "I like your attitude". If there were sunsets in space, I'd imagine he'd be walking away in one while saying that.

I guess that's the fundamental difference between yours and my first step into the wilds of EVE online, I took the loss of my ship in stride and realize that such a thing is a fundamental part of the game. My aggressors are just people playing the game not "Youtube trolls". In response the people that blew up my ship treated a newbie like me with some advice, some ISK, and gave me a far greater opinion of the community the game fosters.

Such is life in EVE Online.

Huh?

I am specifically talking about the SP/levelng system which is causing the OP so much grief and causes a whole host of other problems as well. Everything you mentioned is found in lots of games...in fact Elite and Star Citizen will have them in spades...both look to out sandbox EvE by orders of magnitude. Yet both those games will not have XP/leveling systems meant to milk players for money...in fact both use this fact to sell the game!!!
They view not having XP and levels as a feature that adds to the choices and sandbox elements of the game.

I don't think you understand.

I never played Ultima Online for the very fact it had nearly unregulated PVP.
Runescape.... uhhhh.... NO!
I've dealt with these kinds of games before. They are, all the same.

You play, for the sole purpose that one day, you can take your advantage and camp at a bottleneck to the "Good Parts of the game" use it against someone at a disadvantage,( usually an extreme disadvantage) for the sole purpose of pissing that random person off.

IE. You play so that one day you can just start greifing other players.

Most News Bulletins coming out of your game, are a testament to this fact.

This game is advertised based on that fact.

I pity all of you.

If they had dumped 10m isk in my account that would **** me off even more than them blowing me up.
What you don't realize is that guy pretty much pissed on you after shitting on you. You're just to dumb to see it.
He saw you as a charity case. Well? Are you?

I guess we just won't be seeing eye to eye. What you see as him "pissing on me after shitting on me" I see as helping out a newbie who's attitude was probably just right for a game like EVE Online.

I am curious to what your response would be to my original questions though :

"If, knowing the dangers of the area, you decided to go anyway what were you looking to accomplish? How would your experience in Low-Sec needed to be different for you to have come to a different conclusion?

You say you were looking for the good part of the game but I'm curious as to what your idea of the "good part" was supposed to be."

Ultimately, what were you expecting to happen when you rolled into Low-Sec that fateful afternoon?

So all the work I am doing to start a corp for newer players to join FW is really just my way of griefing you? Total fail on everything this thread is about. I am done with this thread. If you quit both games why are your here? What is the point of griefing us? Doesn't that make you the exact person you are raging about? I am sure that you check with all the players on other online games to see if they are new or at your skill level.

In other online games, it is unneccesary to check, because pvp in the online games I play usually requires that all parties involved are there for that exact purpose.

Guild Wars, all pvp is costentual, noone who wasn't looking for pvp is included in the equation.

Most FPS, people have constented, that is the only purpose of that game.

With EvE...it might have PvP.
But not everyone who is there to play the game actually cares to take part in it.
The game has more to offer than blowing another persons accomplishments up just to waste their time.
Such as the prospect of just exploring, leveling up, gathering resources to build bigger and bigger ships.

In EvE, what you call "Sandbox" is players who pvp against people who have not consented. If the ability to wantonly grief other players at will, is the requirement to be considered a "full sandbox experience"....
Then that sandbox is more akin to a litter box.

That's what businesses do. So I guess what I mean is "working as intended".

I can get you to a safer null system if you want to make some fast mining ISK. Shoot me a email when you get signed up.

In the above posts i mentioned at least 5 different for profit games that don't do that.

I even mentioned WoW which has the same type of subscription model and how they are different as that game is full of content.

why don't you just contribute to one of the hundred other threads just like this one.

CCP classes the abuse of brand new players as an exploit in EVE Online, and you can be heavily penalized for scamming or suicide-ganking a player in high-sec.

You're taking a little too much interest in my history with this game.

Let me make it a littler easier for you. I've put a grand total of about 40 days into EvE. Stopped playing that the moment I realized its nothing but greifers camping low-sec.

I've put a grand total of 2 games into Dust. Stopped playing that the moment I realized they modeled it after EvE.

Now, I'm not saying EvE is completely bad. Only certain parts. Such as what I just described.

It hasn't been locked yet, for a couple of reasons.

1. The moderators are probably laughing their asses off.

2. Everything that has been said in this thread, is true.

If what some random person in this thread has said is true about....
Star Citizen and other up-coming Space MMO's.

Then CCP is about to realize a very hard truth.

And unless they do something about greifers who's only excuse to greif you is

"That's part of the game"

Then they will find out soon enough.

Just because life is full of assholes, doesn't mean you should make a game based on it.
Doesn't mean you should encourage it as the "Meta".

It is.... just a game after all, an escape from the harsh realities of life.

The only reason you have the amount of population that you do, is because EvE is the only game that even comes close to giving a space simulation on such a massive scale.

The moment a developer comes out and matches what EvE has while at the same time regulating the scum of human kind. It will be over for you.

Just because you gain 1 or 2 players a year on top of what you already have...is nothing to be proud of.

I sometimes wonder if I am included in that statistic. Because yes, I joined up.. but I left. Do they give you statistic on how many people leave after a set amount of time?

Also, out of that Half a Million subscribers, how many are alts?

Lightly derogatory term for an MMO player who avoids PVP combat, heavily preferring cooperative or solo PVE combat, chatting, or developing tradeskills/running quests. Depending on the game and the individual, this PVP avoidance can show up in several ways: by playing on strict non-PVP servers; by avoiding PVP areas or declining duels; or, by avoiding or condemning PVP players. Philosophically, they often cite unbalanced combat systems, overpowered guilds, ebayed characters, and ganking as reasons to prefer less aggressive play. The mindset can be self-sustaining in several ways: high-level "care bears" may have avatars that are tailored for PVE, not PVP; they may not network with skilled PVP players; or, they may morally refuse to learn aggressive PVP tactics. As an insult, the term applies less to players who merely prefer PVE to PVP and more to individuals who question the basic legitimacy of PVP or who greatly overreact to their avatars' deaths. Bear in mind that it is strictly incorrect to refer to the victims of heavy exploiters as Care Bears. Abbreviated CB. Compare wi...

PvP was hardly forced on you, it's not like you were thrown into a ring right from the start and told to fight. You took a risk and traveled through a potentially dangerous area, you got attacked by someone, risk vs reward, you took a gamble and you lost. And now your crying about it to the wrong gaming community, real smooth.

And would some people camp the tutorials? Probably, but some people would do that in any game given the chance, it's not like eve has a monopoly on assholes. And let's go back to an earlier post, "one tree doesn't make a forest". I take it you've never heard of the angel project, or brave newbies inc, or eve uni, or one of several other project/corporations designed to help new players get into the game and get things like ships or skill books quicker. Just because you ran afoul of one ganker does not mean the entire community is full of assholes.

then explain the story of the guy who spent 7 years building one of largest ships available just to have "The community" gank it from him almost immediately.

Then explain all the stories of "The Community" ganking just about every Titan Ship that has ever been built.

It's not just my encounter with that "one ganker" it's your entire community being built around the idea of ganking.

Everything I ever read about this game, points to that conclusion.

It's like, the only reason to play the game.

Spend years grinding to build a huge ship, just to have people gang up and blow it up in some bs fashion.

And unfortunately, the way the game is paced.... the "Real" game doesn't start until you leave High-sec areas.

From what I understand, you can't build some of the larger ships in High-sec areas. Which basically means... PVP is being forced on you if you plan to do anything other waste time in tutorial sectors. In the 40 days that I played the game, I felt that I had seen everything that High-sec areas had to offer and I wasn't going anywhere. So, I wanted to see what was out in the "Real" parts of the game world... to see if there was any reason to continue playing. What I found... well... I found that PVP was being forced on me.

And yes, I found .... some stuff in High-sec areas... but certainly not enough to make me want to continue subscribing to the game.. That's for damn sure.

I promise to make this my last attempt to get you to realize how stupid this franchise is.


No matter how hard you try to make a loss mean something. At the end of the day it means nothing. But EvE tries to affect you emotionally to that degree all the same.

As I said earlier. This is the only game where I can forsee someone taking a severe loss far beyond what you or I could imagine.

It is afterall designed with that in mind. To make you care about a loss.

At the end of the day, it is just a game and means nothing.

So with that in mind. Instead of trying to fake depth by surrounding it with that bs timesink to make it take forever to see that depth. Give it some actual depth. If it takes more than a year solid to reach the "Meta Game"...
Grinding like that is not fun, or cool, or worthy of being called depth.

You're telling me to wait ... I forget. But it was a long ******* time. Just to turn drone 4 into drone 5? That is not depth

Space Zombies and Pirates appears to have about the same amount of depth as your game to be honest, from what I encountered.



Let me give you an example of Depth.

Call of Duty.
Besides the obvious.

Call of Duty doesn't mess around with a rediculously stretched out timesink.
Even while prestiging, the speed at which you reach max level or close to "Meta" Level is quick.
So then the depth comes from what?

Anyone?

HUMAN INTERACTIONS!

And I'll tell you what, CoD has much better competition than EvE does.



Don't think for one second that not Just about every gamer out there has a deep interest in a decent Space MMO.
But not when the timespan of the games RPG mechanics that hold you back tries to match the timespan of reality.
Just because schools in real life take years to go through.... Well, you figure it out.

Then to top it off, you make the other half of your game... Eh. You figure it out.

I sometimes wonder how some of you put yourselves through such a laborious game.

I promise to make this my last attempt to get you to realize how stupid this franchise is.


No matter how hard you try to make a loss mean something. At the end of the day it means nothing. But EvE tries to affect you emotionally to that degree all the same.

As I said earlier. This is the only game where I can forsee someone taking a severe loss far beyond what you or I could imagine.

It is afterall designed with that in mind. To make you care about a loss.

At the end of the day, it is just a game and means nothing.

So with that in mind. Instead of trying to fake depth by surrounding it with that bs timesink to make it take forever to see that depth. Give it some actual depth. If it takes more than a year solid to reach the "Meta Game"...
Grinding like that is not fun, or cool, or worthy of being called depth.

You're telling me to wait ... I forget. But it was a long ******* time. Just to turn drone 4 into drone 5? That is not depth

Space Zombies and Pirates appears to have about the same amount of depth as your game to be honest, from what I encountered.



Let me give you an example of Depth.

Call of Duty.
Besides the obvious.

Call of Duty doesn't mess around with a rediculously stretched out timesink.
Even while prestiging, the speed at which you reach max level or close to "Meta" Level is quick.
So then the depth comes from what?

Anyone?

HUMAN INTERACTIONS!

And I'll tell you what, CoD has much better competition than EvE does.



Don't think for one second that not Just about every gamer out there has a deep interest in a decent Space MMO.
But not when the timespan of the games RPG mechanics that hold you back tries to match the timespan of reality.
Just because schools in real life take years to go through.... Well, you figure it out.

Then to top it off, you make the other half of your game... Eh. You figure it out.

I sometimes wonder how some of you put yourselves through such a laborious game.

For being the ONLY space MMO out there.... says alot.

You'd think with as unique as it is, being the only Space Simulation MMO on the market, it'd be doing better than it currently is.

No other game offers such a huge Space Simulation MMO.

So, when you feel confident in trodding along with a small but consistent user-base (This includes Dust and EVE). Don't.
Because you could be doing .... SO MUCH BETTER.

And I think you all know the reasons why you are not.

1. A Game Community built around the idea of being assholes to each other with phrases such as HTFU.

2. A Giant worthless timesink grinding mechanic designed to make you spend as much time as possible waiting to get to the cool stuff all while charging a monthly fee.

It's really not a thinking mans game to be honest. It's a.. I have no life kind of game.

A Real thinking man, would see the timesink for what it is.
A greedy attempt to get you to subscribe to that monthly fee and keep you there for as long as possible.

Is there a reason you must dedicate your life to one game? Is there some kind of reward to say that you've played a single game for 50 years?

Hell over the past 20 years, I've played hundreds if not thousands of games.
You know why?
Because I realize that life is to short to keep reading the same book or playing the same game over and over and over again.
Especially when there's new books/games being released every week.

But I'm gonna waste money subscribing to a game that makes me wait weeks just to train 1 skill up 1 level.

It's pathetic.

Props to you CCP for suckering em in. Can't blame em though really, You are the only Space MMO out there.


That is all. Have fun thinking you are cool and elite because you play such a worthless game.

An intelligent man would be able to earn enough isk to pay for a plex and fund his Dust 514 soldier without paying the monthly fee and far less effort before his free trial is over.

I think you'd need to do some hardcore grinding to get enough ISK during your trial, that might be a bit of a stretch for the average immortal.

A friend just helped me set up my account again, but I can only play if I PLEX. Between my sexy Procurer and my even sexier PI network, I'm well on my way towards never having to pay for EVE time again.

What is your issue with this:

New player.
Unable to participate in PVP or be attacked by other players until....
They join a Human Corporation or attempt to start their own.

Once they do..
They are forever from that time forward flagged for PVP across the entire account.
Even if they disband the Corp or leave, they are still flagged.

Like I said. it's not that I don't enjoy PVP,. But don't force players into until they are ready.
They signal when they are ready when they join a Human Controlled Corporation.

Once a player is ready, it's not like them creating an alternate character resets that, unless they are lame enough to buy a secondary account. Which I'm sure alot of you do for other purposes. (You're lame btw)

You still get to keep your sandbox.
New players can play the game and join in the "Meta" when they are ready.
Greifers are forced to pick on someone their own size.
New players can at least experience more than just a slight step up from Tutorials to see if it's worth it.

Right now the amount that is seeable, before you start getting ganked...is not enough for me

"But... that will kill the Realism of the game..... duhr"
A game shouldn't aspire to be that real. Seriously.

If you need reality.. You should just turn around.....

Right now.

Yes, you.

Turn your chair around and see what's behind you.

That's reality.

Having a real job and life makes paying for something like this easy. The fact that I can skill up passively is just a plus.

New Eden is not always about having fun, it's about building things and destroying things together.
It might be a sad waste of life to play games by yourself all day, but I'm spending it with half a million other people, and IMO time spent with friends is never wasted.

I honestly can't believe you're still posting, and STILL being an arrogant, pompous a**hole.

You lack even basic understanding of core game mechanics or social happenings. You treat joining a player-run corp like its being doomed to be ganked for all eternity, where the hell do you even get that idea?

I don't think the word 'Meta" means what you think it means.

You don't lose a titan by getting 'ganked', you lose it because you have done something profoundly stupid, like hitting 'Jump to' instead of 'Bridge to' (lol-Asakai, amirite fellas?). Not to mention, if you HAVE A TITAN, you are very much oriented toward PVP and understand the risks. This imaginary 7-year carebear you speak of does not exist.

Real 'griefing' is not common, because if you're in high-sec space, and you shoot someone, concord comes and hits you with a bat. You can't just randomly shoot someone in high-sec and get away with it. Sure, it HAPPENS, people suicide gank for fun, but that is a TINY percentage of the community. YES there are pirates in low sec (they are not griefers, they are pirates. That is how they make their money.) but the game WARNS you about it, and at the heart of this is the fact that you DID NOT HEED THAT WARNING and got really butt-hurt about it.

There are literally HUNDREDS of other players available at ANY given time to answer questions or help you along in the help channels, starter corp channels, or even your local chat in starter systems. Hell, it's even a bannable offense to grief new players within starter systems. There are plenty of safeguards to make sure players don't have to experience PVP until they are ready, you clearly just aren't smart enough to see them. instead, you just want the game to hold your hand and kiss your boo-boos better. It's just not that kind of game, and for all your ranting about how horrible it is, it is STILL the only MMO of it's age to have constant growth year after year, and not just the "1 or 2" players you like to mistakenly point out.

The fact you have gone on about this for so long, refuse to shut up, and can't seem to realize that this is all merely your opinion and anyone who is ACTUALLY intelligent doesn't try so hard to force his opinions on others, tells me that you have lived a very sheltered life and have no freaking idea what reality is.

Don't hate on urban dictionary just because you absolutely fit the well-known definition of a carebear.

One last thing: You hate on the eve skill model, but riddle me this. If you make a WoW character, pay the monthly subscription, run through the game and get to level 85 or 90 or 100000 or whatever, then get bored and make another character because you're bored, only to do all the leveling again, get bored, and repeat...isn't THAT just another clever way of sucking a subcription fee out of somebody?

At least in eve, as I keep playing, my character will become better at more and more things. The passive skillpoints mean I can play eve when I have time, have my character advance, and STILL have a life. The only grind is for ISK, and if you know what you're doing, it's not really a grind at all.


Afterthought: Been following this thread for days, and I think it could be possible, that this guy has just been trolling us this whole time.

lol

>Make a new character
>Keep it in an NPC Corp
>Fly it wherever you want getting intel on whatever you want with impunity

This is a horrible idea. Ever consider that MMOs may just not be for you?

They aren't for everyone, you know.


Oh, and I love how you're representative of the "I want to avoid all PvP" trash that's shitting up the Star Citizen forums.

For being the ONLY space MMO out there.... says alot.

You'd think with as unique as it is, being the only Space Simulation MMO on the market, it'd be doing better than it currently is.

No other game offers such a huge Space Simulation MMO.

So, when you feel confident in trodding along with a small but consistent user-base (This includes Dust and EVE). Don't.
Because you could be doing .... SO MUCH BETTER.

And I think you all know the reasons why you are not.

1. A Game Community built around the idea of being assholes to each other with phrases such as HTFU.

2. A Giant worthless timesink grinding mechanic designed to make you spend as much time as possible waiting to get to the cool stuff all while charging a monthly fee.

It's really not a thinking mans game to be honest. It's a.. I have no life kind of game.

A Real thinking man, would see the timesink for what it is.
A greedy attempt to get you to subscribe to that monthly fee and keep you there for as long as possible.

Is there a reason you must dedicate your life to one game? Is there some kind of reward to say that you've played a single game for 50 years?

Hell over the past 20 years, I've played hundreds if not thousands of games.
You know why?
Because I realize that life is to short to keep reading the same book or playing the same game over and over and over again.
Especially when there's new books/games being released every week.

But I'm gonna waste money subscribing to a game that makes me wait weeks just to train 1 skill up 1 level.

It's pathetic.

Props to you CCP for suckering em in. Can't blame em though really, You are the only Space MMO out there.


That is all. Have fun thinking you are cool and elite because you play such a worthless game.