You know, I read somewhere that eve-o is the only MMO out there that has consistently shown a rise in subscribers each year.

You're taking a little too much interest in my history with this game.

Let me make it a littler easier for you. I've put a grand total of about 40 days into EvE. Stopped playing that the moment I realized its nothing but greifers camping low-sec.

I've put a grand total of 2 games into Dust. Stopped playing that the moment I realized they modeled it after EvE.

Now, I'm not saying EvE is completely bad. Only certain parts. Such as what I just described.

Basically. The reason you only have Half a million people contributing to your little fantasy world, is because CCP is too lazy to regulate the PVP side of things. And I don't mean a complete lock down on PVP. Some unregulated PVP is fine. And that entails the Backstabbing within Corps, etc.

But...as in my case, I'm still learning the game on my own time, completely disinterested in the PVP until such time that I am ready.
That's to say... that I will eventually get involved into a Human Corporation and partake in PVP against other Human controlled Corporations in the future. But until I make the commitment to join a Human Corp.... I don't need random assholes greifing me, just because I entered a low-sec area of space.
And they got nothing better to do than to camp that particular entrance. That is not an enjoyable experience for me. Nor can I imagine it being enjoyable for anyone else who is new at the game and still figuring out what "path" I want to take.
And I want to figure out that "Path" on my own. I don't want or need the advice of other people telling me what the "Meta game" is, because then there is no point in me playing the game anymore if I have to follow someone elses advice to "Enjoy" it.

An MMO with unregulated PVP is nothing more than a haven to promote assholes. Your basically giving a green light to say, it's completely OK to ruin someone elses enjoyment of the game (especially newer players) which is exactly what happened to me. It's not fun to waste time grinding for something just to lose it for no other reason than, I entered a low-sec area of space.


In other words.....
Just a little regulation on PVP would go a LOOOOOOOOONG way.
I would probably still play EvE if CCP wasn't so ******* lazy in that regard.
And no..... what is currently in place with the high-sec vs low-sec, isn't even close to what would be considered regulated.

Regulated in EvE would mean....
Unless Player A is part of a Human Controlled Corporation, they cannot initiate an attack on another player, nor be attacked by another player.

Simple. Effective.

And it makes PVP more in line with what PVP should be. Players who have consented to that aspect of the game. Instead of the greifing contest that EvE currently comes off as in which.... newer players are chased away because of it...

IE. If greifers were put in check... your Half a Million userbase, would probably be 5x times bigger. You, would have beaten World of Warcraft.

Oh, but.. I forget.... The average mentality of an EvE player is in line with keeping the population smaller so they can somehow feel special about it. Which....makes no ******* sense whatsoever.

And I fully understand that this is the Dust Forum. But I also understand that currently.... The only people playing Dust.. are Diehard EvE fanboys ....
....the perfect audience for me to put my point across too.






I know what you're all about to say. This opens the door for Spies to infiltrate your systems. There are solutions to that.. But as I said. CCP is too lazy to bother. It's easier to just let the greifers run amok.

The fail in this post is just too much, how can you comment on something when you have spent so little time on them. I've never played eve myself but is 40 days not only slightly longer than the trial period? And 2 games of dust? That's not even half an hours playing, you can't judge something off such a shallow experience.

And there's something you need to understand, CCP aren't "too lazy" to regulate PvP, it's unregulated as a deliberate design choice, the "HTFU" and "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" mentalities didn't come about by accident. You could say that eve is somewhat like real life in that regard, sometimes **** happens and you have no choice but to deal with the consequences.

And did you really say "only half a million people" you say that like its a bad thing. This game has over 500,000 accounts paying a monthly fee of what? -ú15? That comes to -ú7,500,000 a month!!! It's more than enough for CCP to keep on going. And unlike every other game out there, every single one of those accounts exist on the same server. Sure WoW might have the higher numbers but they're split across hundreds of servers, eve is different, eve is unique. The fact that it has unregulated PvP is one of its most important features, by the way, how can you say "a little unregulated PvP is fine" but then call for regulation for PvP in the same post?

The fact is Eve doesn't suffer fools, if you fly a bling ship you have no right to complain when someone ganks you, if your inexperience makes you wander into a system you should have avoided, well it's tough luck but you live and you learn. One of the things that attract me to eve is how the game doesn't hold your hand like pretty much everything else out there, as soon as I get a PC I'm gonna download the trial for it, will probably even subscribe to it.

In other words, if you want to play eve you have to have a "HTFU" mentality, not because your an *******, because their are assholes out there, both in real life and in games, accept it, deal with it, move on having learnt something from the encounter.

This is incorrect. MMOs that forgo the whole RPG style XP/leveling system do not have much of a "nerf that buff this" problem.

When was the last time you read someone bitching to jeb about a cobblestone nerf in minecraft?

With Dayz the biggest issues even coming close are the players say the some items are too common and the game should be harder....of course they mean harder actual game play...not longer pointless grinds.

So many problems come from CCP's choice to use SP in EvE/Dust it makes me think the OP is correct in pointing out that the reason for this is not for compelling game play but to milk players for money.

Warning or not. If the playerbase of EvE represents how man would act as a glactic civilization in the future.

...

You figure it out.

500k to 6-7 bil is a decent enuogh sample size.

Attack first ask questions never is the game I played or experienced.

Has nothing to do with sucking at the game. It had everything to do with CCP not regulating the assholes.

Did. I also fully understood the dangers, knew exactly where I was going. I had spent 40 days in low sec areas. It was time to see what the "REAL" game was like.

And as I said.

What I saw was players who

Attack first, ask questions never.

It was 1 giant douchbag circle-jerk.

"Be the Villain" they advertise for this franchise.

Sometimes, to be more successful, you have to think about more than just a "Group" of players and think about people who don't have YEARS TO DEDICATE to the game. I'm already what... 7 years behind? What makes you think a new player is gonna pick this up and stick with it knowing such information. That's why after 7 years you still haven't broken 1 million. Awesome game btw. Just horrible execution. You built it for the worst part of the internet.

Basically....

New Eden Population = Youtube Trolls = Gltichers on Console FPS's = Campers/AFK'rs/Team Betrayers/Douchbags/etc.

I guess I should be thankful. That's Half a Million less of you ruining other games.

If we were talking about WoW then i would say they were not milking as leveling in that game you get to see the huge library of content that WoW has accumulated over the years.

for Dust there is no content. You learn the maps in a week and the that is it. EvE has a crap load of grinding content but it is mining and exploring....how long does it take to get the hang of that? a month?

What reason if not to milk money from players is there this huge gap of time in both games between mastering its mechanics and then moving on to end game?

With DayZ the game is the end game.

With minecraft you have to actually do stuff to get to end game....and the end game is jus a boss fight...the end game is not an end to itself but doing the stuff to get there is the game....and in fact in most servers that end game is removed and there is no end game.

With Dust or with EvE there is no reason in terms of actual game play to put up that gate.

Minecraft and DayZ are not like that. I guess in dayz you can get the better weapons but you can still be killed by a noob with an ax. In Minecraft if you play PvP a noob could set a trap and kill you...it also depends on how the server is configured.

I think he is talking about an SP advantage which has nothing to do with smarts or game play....you get it simply by being here longer then the players you gank.

This really comes down to how bad the whole SP/leveling system is for Dust...for EvE already sucks in my mind because you don't actually pilot your ship....how boring is that....but yeah if i actually liked the game play of EvE the SP/leveling system would be pile of crap as well.

Huh?

I am specifically talking about the SP/levelng system which is causing the OP so much grief and causes a whole host of other problems as well. Everything you mentioned is found in lots of games...in fact Elite and Star Citizen will have them in spades...both look to out sandbox EvE by orders of magnitude. Yet both those games will not have XP/leveling systems meant to milk players for money...in fact both use this fact to sell the game!!!
They view not having XP and levels as a feature that adds to the choices and sandbox elements of the game.

In other online games, it is unneccesary to check, because pvp in the online games I play usually requires that all parties involved are there for that exact purpose.

Guild Wars, all pvp is costentual, noone who wasn't looking for pvp is included in the equation.

Most FPS, people have constented, that is the only purpose of that game.

With EvE...it might have PvP.
But not everyone who is there to play the game actually cares to take part in it.
The game has more to offer than blowing another persons accomplishments up just to waste their time.
Such as the prospect of just exploring, leveling up, gathering resources to build bigger and bigger ships.

In EvE, what you call "Sandbox" is players who pvp against people who have not consented. If the ability to wantonly grief other players at will, is the requirement to be considered a "full sandbox experience"....
Then that sandbox is more akin to a litter box.

then explain the story of the guy who spent 7 years building one of largest ships available just to have "The community" gank it from him almost immediately.

Then explain all the stories of "The Community" ganking just about every Titan Ship that has ever been built.

It's not just my encounter with that "one ganker" it's your entire community being built around the idea of ganking.

Everything I ever read about this game, points to that conclusion.

It's like, the only reason to play the game.

Spend years grinding to build a huge ship, just to have people gang up and blow it up in some bs fashion.

And unfortunately, the way the game is paced.... the "Real" game doesn't start until you leave High-sec areas.

From what I understand, you can't build some of the larger ships in High-sec areas. Which basically means... PVP is being forced on you if you plan to do anything other waste time in tutorial sectors. In the 40 days that I played the game, I felt that I had seen everything that High-sec areas had to offer and I wasn't going anywhere. So, I wanted to see what was out in the "Real" parts of the game world... to see if there was any reason to continue playing. What I found... well... I found that PVP was being forced on me.

And yes, I found .... some stuff in High-sec areas... but certainly not enough to make me want to continue subscribing to the game.. That's for damn sure.

I promise to make this my last attempt to get you to realize how stupid this franchise is.


No matter how hard you try to make a loss mean something. At the end of the day it means nothing. But EvE tries to affect you emotionally to that degree all the same.

As I said earlier. This is the only game where I can forsee someone taking a severe loss far beyond what you or I could imagine.

It is afterall designed with that in mind. To make you care about a loss.

At the end of the day, it is just a game and means nothing.

So with that in mind. Instead of trying to fake depth by surrounding it with that bs timesink to make it take forever to see that depth. Give it some actual depth. If it takes more than a year solid to reach the "Meta Game"...
Grinding like that is not fun, or cool, or worthy of being called depth.

You're telling me to wait ... I forget. But it was a long ******* time. Just to turn drone 4 into drone 5? That is not depth

Space Zombies and Pirates appears to have about the same amount of depth as your game to be honest, from what I encountered.



Let me give you an example of Depth.

Call of Duty.
Besides the obvious.

Call of Duty doesn't mess around with a rediculously stretched out timesink.
Even while prestiging, the speed at which you reach max level or close to "Meta" Level is quick.
So then the depth comes from what?

Anyone?

HUMAN INTERACTIONS!

And I'll tell you what, CoD has much better competition than EvE does.



Don't think for one second that not Just about every gamer out there has a deep interest in a decent Space MMO.
But not when the timespan of the games RPG mechanics that hold you back tries to match the timespan of reality.
Just because schools in real life take years to go through.... Well, you figure it out.

Then to top it off, you make the other half of your game... Eh. You figure it out.

I sometimes wonder how some of you put yourselves through such a laborious game.

What is your issue with this:

New player.
Unable to participate in PVP or be attacked by other players until....
They join a Human Corporation or attempt to start their own.

Once they do..
They are forever from that time forward flagged for PVP across the entire account.
Even if they disband the Corp or leave, they are still flagged.

Like I said. it's not that I don't enjoy PVP,. But don't force players into until they are ready.
They signal when they are ready when they join a Human Controlled Corporation.

Once a player is ready, it's not like them creating an alternate character resets that, unless they are lame enough to buy a secondary account. Which I'm sure alot of you do for other purposes. (You're lame btw)

You still get to keep your sandbox.
New players can play the game and join in the "Meta" when they are ready.
Greifers are forced to pick on someone their own size.
New players can at least experience more than just a slight step up from Tutorials to see if it's worth it.

Right now the amount that is seeable, before you start getting ganked...is not enough for me

"But... that will kill the Realism of the game..... duhr"
A game shouldn't aspire to be that real. Seriously.

If you need reality.. You should just turn around.....

Right now.

Yes, you.

Turn your chair around and see what's behind you.

That's reality.