Can't one shot my scout's ankles anymore can you Mr Flaylock?

*sigh*
Today I am a happy minja again.

*waits for plasma canon to reign supreme*

Can't one shot my scout's ankles anymore can you Mr Flaylock?

*sigh*
Today I am a happy minja again.

*waits for plasma canon to reign supreme*

Can't one shot my scout's ankles anymore can you Mr Flaylock?

*sigh*
Today I am a happy minja again.

I've been purposely spamming it in the Academy today. Let them be swayed into the ways!

I just got three kills with it last game.

i'm glad it was nerfed, now people have to use it as a sidearm to finish off the last chunk of health rather than a primary weapon to deplete ALL their health

I just got three kills with it last game.

i'm glad it was nerfed, now people have to use it as a sidearm to finish off the last chunk of health rather than a primary weapon to deplete ALL their health

All side arms can kill you with one clip. Just saying so your statement is invalid

That doesn't make it invalid. You can kill a heavy with one clip from an smg, but good luck trying.

That doesn't make it invalid. You can kill a heavy with one clip from an smg, but good luck trying.

All side arms have the POTENTIAL to kill with one clip.......asumeing the other guy/gal has the ID-o1T error

I just got three kills with it last game.

i'm glad it was nerfed, now people have to use it as a sidearm to finish off the last chunk of health rather than a primary weapon to deplete ALL their health

You can't kill a heavy with one clip of a flay lock. I use them so I know it takes almost 4-5 shots. so 2 clips, you were saying?

Ahem, the Scrambler pistol

You just directly contradicted your own post.
Go home Steve.

I just got three kills with it last game.

i'm glad it was nerfed, now people have to use it as a sidearm to finish off the last chunk of health rather than a primary weapon to deplete ALL their health

When Knife hit detection gets fixed, you're all ******.

Not really, maybe to an idiot like you it may seem so. I wasn't talking about a heavy prior to that comment until someone mentioned you can't kill a heavy with a smg in one clip which is common sense. If you had common sense you probably would realize that when I said all side arms can kill you in one clip excluded the heavy suit or people with epic tank. So you sir go home, i am home btw ^_^

Sigh - hate this argument - When a player jumps you with an advanced or higher SMG and kills you what is the rationale for them not needing a primary weapon or using a flux.

It took me three shots today to kill a scout at an objective - that is crazy.

I had no problem with them reigning it in but now its super niche. At least the requirements are ridiculously low, its the only thing that kind of justifies its new damage. Shame you have to spend that amount of SP for a weapon that has to depend on another weapon to become effective.

If you run in a squad it can still be mean though.

Hope they buff it back slightly or actually listen to better proposals put forward in the forum.

Fixed that for you.

Btw, I made a really fun sidearm-focused suit last night. Mainly using the SMG, but the flaylock for direct hits. It was a standard flaylock, yet still 2-shotted most targets it got direct hits on (mostly snipers and people hacking)

Really enjoying seeing the feedback from both sides on this. I am hopeful that this does allow the flaylock to still be used but not so much as a primary as was mentioned above. The fact that you're still able to use the weapon for the purpose it was intended while not feeling like it's a completely useless side is pretty good news.

While there are a lot of differing opinions, they are all appreciated! Thanks!

Shame you just listen to the bad players like the CPMs, the CCP members, and the silly guys. Good players will still kill bad players even with scramble pistols in the 2 weapons slots. The only thing you get with this is kick out more players because you just make their time wasted.

But meh, it's a good plan too, because players that suck so much will buy all those "amazing" packs that make you a better and very good soldier.

Lol.

Shame you just listen to the bad players like the CPMs, the CCP members, and the silly guys. Good players will still kill bad players even with scramble pistols in the 2 weapons slots. The only thing you get with this is kick out more players because you just make their time wasted.

But meh, it's a good plan too, because players that suck so much will buy all those "amazing" packs that make you a better and very good soldier.

Lol.

I think any weapon should be able to kill given its in its niche. That shouldnt include having to use flux to drop shields.

They could have reduced RoF, range of projectile and still streamlined the radius and reduced some splash but left the direct hits with higher damage.

Most other weapons dont have to be used in conjunction with another weapon, you just need to get into the right range / situation.

Anyway - I only use it about 20% of the time or less and I use it mostly how it must be used now or if I surprised someone at an objective. I just disagree mostly on principle.

Really enjoying seeing the feedback from both sides on this. I am hopeful that this does allow the flaylock to still be used but not so much as a primary as was mentioned above. The fact that you're still able to use the weapon for the purpose it was intended while not feeling like it's a completely useless side is pretty good news.

While there are a lot of differing opinions, they are all appreciated! Thanks!

Really enjoying seeing the feedback from both sides on this. I am hopeful that this does allow the flaylock to still be used but not so much as a primary as was mentioned above. The fact that you're still able to use the weapon for the purpose it was intended while not feeling like it's a completely useless side is pretty good news.

While there are a lot of differing opinions, they are all appreciated! Thanks!

What would be nice in a few weeks would be a post from Wolfman or whomever on why these changes were made and not others suggested.

Also a broad statement on how you see weapons. Should they all stand on their own or are some "better" than others.

Really enjoying seeing the feedback from both sides on this. I am hopeful that this does allow the flaylock to still be used but not so much as a primary as was mentioned above. The fact that you're still able to use the weapon for the purpose it was intended while not feeling like it's a completely useless side is pretty good news.

While there are a lot of differing opinions, they are all appreciated! Thanks!

The SMG is no different. Taking on a shield-tank with it is a fool's errand without a flux.

Not entirely true - it does more damage v shields (iirc) and if you put your shots on the target you do hella lot of dmg. Now you can escape the optimal range kind of easy if you have the speed and they havent skilled sharpshooter but the same can be said now for the flaylock because you cant really kill anymore with 1 clip so you will have to reload giving the enemy chance to engage you or retreat.

There was a dev blog that covered this and other nerfs in great detail.

Really enjoying seeing the feedback from both sides on this. I am hopeful that this does allow the flaylock to still be used but not so much as a primary as was mentioned above. The fact that you're still able to use the weapon for the purpose it was intended while not feeling like it's a completely useless side is pretty good news.

While there are a lot of differing opinions, they are all appreciated! Thanks!

Your complaint is counter intuitive. CCP based their nerf off of stats like increased KDRs for those who picked up a Flaylock.
In other words; it was nerfed because it wasn't a skilled weapon like the scrambler pistol, and because it was a crutch for the very players you're complaining about.

Methinks you got your OP weapon nerfed and now you're upset that you can't pwn like you used to.

Sorry - that was garbage with contradictions.

You're assuming the company that put contact nades on sale before nerfing them days later, made rational decisions with the flaylock.

Or maybe the reason their KDR went up was because they gained more skillpoints, got more skilled, and played a little more now that they were having some fun. You know sometimes things like that happen.

Video game logic- a bullet in the foot is just as lethal as one through the heart.

It's an explanation whether you like it or not. You're assuming the company that put contact nades on sale before nerfing them days later, made rational decisions with the flaylock.

You know what grinds my gears?

I've been slaughtered by people using the SMG and the scram pistol as main weapons, the pro versions are crazy and yet not a ******* word on them being abused as a main when it should be a sidearm, I'm not one to usually get mad (go read my posts) but this is the kind of crap that gets me.

Was the nerf due to it being a sidearm used as a main or because it really was op? You guys contradict too much.

I haven't played with the flaylock since it's adjustments so I can't give any feedback on it yet, I've saved 600k sp just incase it's unusable though.

Shame you just listen to the bad players like the CPMs, the CCP members, and the silly guys. Good players will still kill bad players even with scramble pistols in the 2 weapons slots. The only thing you get with this is kick out more players because you just make their time wasted.

But meh, it's a good plan too, because players that suck so much will buy all those "amazing" packs that make you a better and very good soldier.

Lol.

You know what grinds my gears?

I've been slaughtered by people using the SMG and the scram pistol as main weapons, the pro versions are crazy and yet not a ******* word on them being abused as a main when it should be a sidearm, I'm not one to usually get mad (go read my posts) but this is the kind of crap that gets me.

Was the nerf due to it being a sidearm used as a main or because it really was op? You guys contradict too much.

I wasnt assuming anything. I disregarded it because it was fluff and double talk.

Thats why I asked in this thread for at least a statement as to why they made the nerfs where they did instead of other areas and how they see weapons in general.

I have no issue with the mechanic of using weapons in concert but when you have an SP system that treats all of them near identical in terms of "learning them" I think it is poor to shortchange some very much.

Time isn't wasted, if you are playing and training into a weapon/playstyle and are having fun then that time was well-spent. If you continue to find things in the game that you enjoy doing and improve upon them that's exactly what we want. If something changes within the game because of balancing, it will, ideally, become balanced to the game. So while not as powerful as before should still be something that you enjoy playing. If it was only chosen because it was over-powered and not a style that you particularly cared for - chances are there's not much that will satiate you.

As for good players still killing bad players. Absolutely, skill can determine a battle that is not something we want to balance against. Our data showed the weapon may need tweaking, along with the player feedback a choice was made to do some adjustments. We will see how this goes. :)

So, basically you're saying that you make something, people like it, they get fun with it and spend their time, so then you screw it, so they didn't waste their time but they need to find another way to get fun.
That's your plan? Keep players ******* all the content just to change the other?
Nice one CCP Mintchip. Very friendly

You missed my point.
They gave the explanation that you asked for. You just aren't happy with it.

If you don't think the SP cost is worthwhile for sidearms, then don't spend it there. Everybody understands that you get diminishing returns from your sp. Apply that to sidearms and you'll see that they're there to compliment you main, not to replace it.

Hey Mintchip, you all at ccp still realize this sidearm still out dps most every weapon, and is easier to fit than most other sidearms? The weapon is OK balanced now though (would have rather seen a fire rate fix instead of damage) minus being easy to fit, so everyone will still use them over most any other sidearm. 3 shots is still enough to destroy my Gallente armor suit, just takes slightly more skill.

LOL - fail

The explanation they gave was not substantive. It could have been because daddy says so. Is that acceptable??? Did I check the box? Yes - anyway moving on.

Also round and round you go - I just argued how the SMG can function perfectly on its own.

Its obvious you dont want to see the other side. I try to and have spoken with many who just wanted to keep the flaylock OP and I argued against that. I argued with Cal Logis who saw no issue their suit and weapon but wanted other stuff nerfed to keep their cushy life. I also questioned some of the suggestions some scouts are putting forward because it would give the class too much of an edge and I'm a scout.

You are just spouting not actually trying to converse. WOFT

Hey Mintchip, you all at ccp still realize this sidearm still out dps most every weapon, and is easier to fit than most other sidearms? The weapon is OK balanced now though (would have rather seen a fire rate fix instead of damage) minus being easy to fit, so everyone will still use them over most any other sidearm. 3 shots is still enough to destroy my Gallente armor suit, just takes slightly more skill.

@Chunky Munkey - I never said the SMG was as good a pre-nerfed Flaylock and I never said the flaylock didnt need nerfing.

I use flaylocks on my minja scout, and after a few games this morning... I don't notice too much of a difference.

I love hitting people long range with it. It must be quite the surprise when they see GN-20 on the feed.

Shame you just listen to the bad players like the CPMs, the CCP members, and the silly guys. Good players will still kill bad players even with scramble pistols in the 2 weapons slots. The only thing you get with this is kick out more players because you just make their time wasted.

But meh, it's a good plan too, because players that suck so much will buy all those "amazing" packs that make you a better and very good soldier.

Lol.

Time isn't wasted

We don't want to over-correct, so we are definitely watching for feedback like this. We'll, and you'll, know more as things progress. To truly see what the trends are! :)

When Shotgun hit detection gets fixed, you're all ******.

I love the posts about "Ive been owned by a scrambler pistol, how come they arent considered OP?"

Cause they require actual skill to use and even then poor hit detection makes them a bit of a crapshoot. Yes, a SCP can 1-2 shot almost everyone and can do so in the blink of an eye, but it requires head shots to do so, not "shoot within 2.5 meters."

That being said, used correctly, SCP is the best gun in the game in close ranges.

Wait, is the fitting still crazy low? While not nerfing every aspect of a thing simultaneously is good I had thought the lack of fitting costs was a mistake, not by design. Had kinda assumed there might be a correction on that score at some point.

Not lobbying for it, just surprised.

Not entirely true - it does more damage v shields (iirc) and if you put your shots on the target you do hella lot of dmg. Now you can escape the optimal range kind of easy if you have the speed and they havent skilled sharpshooter but the same can be said now for the flaylock because you cant really kill anymore with 1 clip so you will have to reload giving the enemy chance to engage you or retreat.

EDIT: Looked around on here and I see it stated (cant confirm) the SMG does 94% damage to shields where the flaylock does 70%

-> 24 x .94 x 40 (thats half of your clip missing) = 902.4
-> 174 x .7 x 3 = 365.4

Just saying

You know what grinds my gears?

I've been slaughtered by people using the SMG and the scram pistol as main weapons, the pro versions are crazy and yet not a ******* word on them being abused as a main when it should be a sidearm, I'm not one to usually get mad (go read my posts) but this is the kind of crap that gets me.

Was the nerf due to it being a sidearm used as a main or because it really was op? You guys contradict too much.

I haven't played with the flaylock since it's adjustments so I can't give any feedback on it yet, I've saved 600k sp just incase it's unusable though.

Hey Mintchip, you all at ccp still realize this sidearm still out dps most every weapon, and is easier to fit than most other sidearms? The weapon is OK balanced now though (would have rather seen a fire rate fix instead of damage) minus being easy to fit, so everyone will still use them over most any other sidearm. 3 shots is still enough to destroy my Gallente armor suit, just takes slightly more skill.

You just ignored everything that was said.
The weapon was nerfed in a way that did not change its standard behaviour. This means that those who used it will still be able to use it in the exact same scenarios. It just won't be as devastatingly effective as it used to be.

If you have a complaint with how it behaves now, then it's clear that you were using this weapon not because you liked the playstyle it excelled in, but precisely because it was OP.

My advice to you.

You just ignored everything that was said.
The weapon was nerfed in a way that did not change its standard behaviour. This means that those who used it will still be able to use it in the exact same scenarios. It just won't be as devastatingly effective as it used to be.

If you have a complaint with how it behaves now, then it's clear that you were using this weapon not because you liked the playstyle it excelled in, but precisely because it was OP.

My advice to you.

At the risk of making this sound like a schoolground yeling match:

I'm not the one avoiding conversation, you are.
You asked for the reason, they gave it. You just aren't happy with the reason.
You say it contradicts itself. It does. That doesn't stop it being the reason.

Sidearms aren't meant to function as a main. Just because a few Eastwoods out there can make use of the scrambler pistol, and just because a few smartypants have figured out how to get the most from their Minny assault bonuses, doesn't put flaylocks on the buff list.

The issue isn't that I don't want to see the other side, the issue is that I've seen it, and it is inadequate.

Skill into the SMG and show us all how it's just as good as the pre-nerf flaylock. Go ahead.
I'm sure the massive surge in its use was just a chance occurrance.

Not entirely true - it does more damage v shields (iirc) and if you put your shots on the target you do hella lot of dmg. Now you can escape the optimal range kind of easy if you have the speed and they havent skilled sharpshooter but the same can be said now for the flaylock because you cant really kill anymore with 1 clip so you will have to reload giving the enemy chance to engage you or retreat.

EDIT: Looked around on here and I see it stated (cant confirm) the SMG does 94% damage to shields where the flaylock does 70%

-> 24 x .94 x 40 (thats half of your clip missing) = 902.4
-> 174 x .7 x 3 = 365.4

Just saying

thats the point. it requires skill.
A. in 1 second a militia SMG does 459 damage.
with a clip of 80, that does a total of 2000 damage in that one clip, thats 20 bullets.
so, 20 bullets from a militia SMG does that much damage.
it takes a flaylock a full clip with aim and timing to do that DPS. (even with direct hits it takes 1.5 seconds to unload a flaylocks clip without taking time to aim. even at that its dps is only in the mid 300s)

B. now factor in that a SMG is a spray to win, weapon and you have your self a deadly bullet hose. with this DPS a milita SMG can tear through 3 std gallente suits in the time it takews a flaylock to harm 1, especially after this nerf.

the flaylocks now are perfectly balanced. i haven't seen anyone but myself, and perhaps 4-5 people using them all day even in PC (i played in the afternoon a bit, went to class, and played a PC, then some more pubs)

many people specced into scrambler pistols, and i saw quite a few ADV SMGs. flaylocks are no where near as deadly as an AR ever was, is, and will be. i speced into them, i got them proto, and i still use the standard and get great results because you can't nerf my skills, and thats what AR noobs are scared of. and be very scared because now i am going to stomp with the breach flaylock!
nobody doubts your skill im sure but the flaylock is not skillful. Its a blast radius weapon. But good to see the Flaylock is no running over primary weapons anymore thank god.

thats the point. it requires skill.
A. in 1 second a militia SMG does 459 damage.
with a clip of 80, that does a total of 2000 damage in that one clip, thats 20 bullets.
so, 20 bullets from a militia SMG does that much damage.
it takes a flaylock a full clip with aim and timing to do that DPS. (even with direct hits it takes 1.5 seconds to unload a flaylocks clip without taking time to aim. even at that its dps is only in the mid 300s)

B. now factor in that a SMG is a spray to win, weapon and you have your self a deadly bullet hose. with this DPS a milita SMG can tear through 3 std gallente suits in the time it takews a flaylock to harm 1, especially after this nerf.

the flaylocks now are perfectly balanced. i haven't seen anyone but myself, and perhaps 4-5 people using them all day even in PC (i played in the afternoon a bit, went to class, and played a PC, then some more pubs)

many people specced into scrambler pistols, and i saw quite a few ADV SMGs. flaylocks are no where near as deadly as an AR ever was, is, and will be. i speced into them, i got them proto, and i still use the standard and get great results because you can't nerf my skills, and thats what AR noobs are scared of. and be very scared because now i am going to stomp with the breach flaylock!

Flaylock and mass drivers take no skill , just aim the ground and you win.

^^math don't lie

No what else takes no skill? Dying

Or maybe the reason their KDR went up was because they gained more skillpoints, got more skilled, and played a little more now that they were having some fun. You know sometimes things like that happen.

Sorry - that was garbage with contradictions.

oh Bud, the reason why is because the Flaylock specializes in armor damage. So Gallente is Armor focused in Armor health than shield strength making them ideal for Flaylock kills. Run a Militia or Standard Caldari and you will see a major difference in the Flaylock effectiveness. it is still a strong weapon as a sidearm but if your shield is strong the Flaylock is much less a threat. That my tip for you.. Run more shields when you see Flaylockers roaming the fields but run Armor when you see Scrambler rifles or laser rifles and even ARs too

What was contradictions? your being just as vague bud.

Sigh - hate this argument - When a player jumps you with an advanced or higher SMG and kills you what is the rationale for them not needing a primary weapon or using a flux.

It took me three shots today to kill a scout at an objective - that is crazy.

I had no problem with them reigning it in but now its super niche. At least the requirements are ridiculously low, its the only thing that kind of justifies its new damage. Shame you have to spend that amount of SP for a weapon that has to depend on another weapon to become effective.

If you run in a squad it can still be mean though.

Hope they buff it back slightly or actually listen to better proposals put forward in the forum.

[
Okay this math is qrong.... Check the ingame status information and the details section. The SMG does more damage to armor than shields and same with the Flaylock. If your a strong shield dropsuit than the damage used against you with this weapons is less than its optimal damage. also the time it takes for you to optimally land all 40 rounds compared to landing 3 shots with the flaylock is a major thing to consider. Once your land those three shots damage done could be overcome with another weapon. So i could Flaylock you and if you survived then i would swap weapons and finish you off instead of reloading. While the smg does wonders in Armor damage its pretty weak against shields.

wouldn't it of been better then to give the flaylock more ammo in the clip and far less damage.

if it took 5-6 hit instead of 3 to kill the target it would of resulted in more time to react and a less effective insta kill wepaon

Sloth takes no skill :)

Still dps should be in line with other weapons, and not be able to unload 3 rounds (with extra damage to my armor) and destroy my 550+ suit faster than I can turn and face my opponent. That is unless you actually give me an anti-shield aoe main and side that are in lines with the MD and gaylock. Don't even say Flux, as proto locus can one shot me when using a combo of shield and armor, or shield extensive.

Time isn't wasted, if you are playing and training into a weapon/playstyle and are having fun then that time was well-spent. If you continue to find things in the game that you enjoy doing and improve upon them that's exactly what we want. If something changes within the game because of balancing, it will, ideally, become balanced to the game. So while not as powerful as before should still be something that you enjoy playing. If it was only chosen because it was over-powered and not a style that you particularly cared for - chances are there's not much that will satiate you.

As for good players still killing bad players. Absolutely, skill can determine a battle that is not something we want to balance against. Our data showed the weapon may need tweaking, along with the player feedback a choice was made to do some adjustments. We will see how this goes. :)

Wait, is the fitting still crazy low? While not nerfing every aspect of a thing simultaneously is good I had thought the lack of fitting costs was a mistake, not by design. Had kinda assumed there might be a correction on that score at some point.

Not lobbying for it, just surprised.

There was someone running one of the Flaylocks and was still killing with it. It wasn't the Core versions either. That guy actually made me feel a little better. I'm glad someone still successfully uses it. That's all.

When Shotgun hit detection gets fixed, you're all ******.

Wait, is the fitting still crazy low? While not nerfing every aspect of a thing simultaneously is good I had thought the lack of fitting costs was a mistake, not by design. Had kinda assumed there might be a correction on that score at some point.

Not lobbying for it, just surprised.

When Shotgun hit detection gets fixed, you're all ******.