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Chunky Munkey wrote:

Daxxis KANNAH wrote:

Chunky Munkey wrote:

It's an explanation whether you like it or not. You're assuming the company that put contact nades on sale before nerfing them days later, made rational decisions with the flaylock.

I wasnt assuming anything. I disregarded it because it was fluff and double talk.

Thats why I asked in this thread for at least a statement as to why they made the nerfs where they did instead of other areas and how they see weapons in general.

I have no issue with the mechanic of using weapons in concert but when you have an SP system that treats all of them near identical in terms of "learning them" I think it is poor to shortchange some very much.

You missed my point.
They gave the explanation that you asked for. You just aren't happy with it.

If you don't think the SP cost is worthwhile for sidearms, then don't spend it there. Everybody understands that you get diminishing returns from your sp. Apply that to sidearms and you'll see that they're there to compliment you main, not to replace it.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 273	Posted - 2013.07.30 17:33:00 - [1] - Quote King Kobrah wrote: I just got three kills with it last game. i'm glad it was nerfed, now people have to use it as a sidearm to finish off the last chunk of health rather than a primary weapon to deplete ALL their health Sigh - hate this argument - When a player jumps you with an advanced or higher SMG and kills you what is the rationale for them not needing a primary weapon or using a flux. It took me three shots today to kill a scout at an objective - that is crazy. I had no problem with them reigning it in but now its super niche. At least the requirements are ridiculously low, its the only thing that kind of justifies its new damage. Shame you have to spend that amount of SP for a weapon that has to depend on another weapon to become effective. If you run in a squad it can still be mean though. Hope they buff it back slightly or actually listen to better proposals put forward in the forum.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 273	Posted - 2013.07.30 17:50:00 - [2] - Quote I think any weapon should be able to kill given its in its niche. That shouldnt include having to use flux to drop shields. They could have reduced RoF, range of projectile and still streamlined the radius and reduced some splash but left the direct hits with higher damage. Most other weapons dont have to be used in conjunction with another weapon, you just need to get into the right range / situation. Anyway - I only use it about 20% of the time or less and I use it mostly how it must be used now or if I surprised someone at an objective. I just disagree mostly on principle.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 273	Posted - 2013.07.30 17:54:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Mintchip wrote: Really enjoying seeing the feedback from both sides on this. I am hopeful that this does allow the flaylock to still be used but not so much as a primary as was mentioned above. The fact that you're still able to use the weapon for the purpose it was intended while not feeling like it's a completely useless side is pretty good news. While there are a lot of differing opinions, they are all appreciated! Thanks! What would be nice in a few weeks would be a post from Wolfman or whomever on why these changes were made and not others suggested. Also a broad statement on how you see weapons. Should they all stand on their own or are some "better" than others.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 273	Posted - 2013.07.30 17:58:00 - [4] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: I think any weapon should be able to kill given its in its niche. That shouldnt include having to use flux to drop shields. They could have reduced RoF, range of projectile and still streamlined the radius and reduced some splash but left the direct hits with higher damage. Most other weapons dont have to be used in conjunction with another weapon, you just need to get into the right range / situation. Anyway - I only use it about 20% of the time or less and I use it mostly how it must be used now or if I surprised someone at an objective. I just disagree mostly on principle. The SMG is no different. Taking on a shield-tank with it is a fool's errand without a flux. Not entirely true - it does more damage v shields (iirc) and if you put your shots on the target you do hella lot of dmg. Now you can escape the optimal range kind of easy if you have the speed and they havent skilled sharpshooter but the same can be said now for the flaylock because you cant really kill anymore with 1 clip so you will have to reload giving the enemy chance to engage you or retreat.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 273	Posted - 2013.07.30 18:00:00 - [5] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: CCP Mintchip wrote: Really enjoying seeing the feedback from both sides on this. I am hopeful that this does allow the flaylock to still be used but not so much as a primary as was mentioned above. The fact that you're still able to use the weapon for the purpose it was intended while not feeling like it's a completely useless side is pretty good news. While there are a lot of differing opinions, they are all appreciated! Thanks! What would be nice in a few weeks would be a post from Wolfman or whomever on why these changes were made and not others suggested. Also a broad statement on how you see weapons. Should they all stand on their own or are some "better" than others. There was a dev blog that covered this and other nerfs in great detail. Sorry - that was garbage with contradictions.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 273	Posted - 2013.07.30 18:16:00 - [6] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: It's an explanation whether you like it or not. You're assuming the company that put contact nades on sale before nerfing them days later, made rational decisions with the flaylock. I wasnt assuming anything. I disregarded it because it was fluff and double talk. Thats why I asked in this thread for at least a statement as to why they made the nerfs where they did instead of other areas and how they see weapons in general. I have no issue with the mechanic of using weapons in concert but when you have an SP system that treats all of them near identical in terms of "learning them" I think it is poor to shortchange some very much.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 274	Posted - 2013.07.30 19:28:00 - [7] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: It's an explanation whether you like it or not. You're assuming the company that put contact nades on sale before nerfing them days later, made rational decisions with the flaylock. I wasnt assuming anything. I disregarded it because it was fluff and double talk. Thats why I asked in this thread for at least a statement as to why they made the nerfs where they did instead of other areas and how they see weapons in general. I have no issue with the mechanic of using weapons in concert but when you have an SP system that treats all of them near identical in terms of "learning them" I think it is poor to shortchange some very much. You missed my point. They gave the explanation that you asked for. You just aren't happy with it. If you don't think the SP cost is worthwhile for sidearms, then don't spend it there. Everybody understands that you get diminishing returns from your sp. Apply that to sidearms and you'll see that they're there to compliment you main, not to replace it. LOL - fail The explanation they gave was not substantive. It could have been because daddy says so. Is that acceptable??? Did I check the box? Yes - anyway moving on. Also round and round you go - I just argued how the SMG can function perfectly on its own. Its obvious you dont want to see the other side. I try to and have spoken with many who just wanted to keep the flaylock OP and I argued against that. I argued with Cal Logis who saw no issue their suit and weapon but wanted other stuff nerfed to keep their cushy life. I also questioned some of the suggestions some scouts are putting forward because it would give the class too much of an edge and I'm a scout. You are just spouting not actually trying to converse. WOFT
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 276	Posted - 2013.07.30 20:03:00 - [8] - Quote @Chunky Munkey - I never said the SMG was as good a pre-nerfed Flaylock and I never said the flaylock didnt need nerfing.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 285	Posted - 2013.07.31 14:33:00 - [9] - Quote @ Chunky Munkey - Just trying to hold people to a higher standard than mud This world nowadays - anything goes and any crap is acceptable.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 285	Posted - 2013.07.31 14:54:00 - [10] - Quote Burntface man112 wrote: [ Okay this math is qrong.... Check the ingame status information and the details section. The SMG does more damage to armor than shields and same with the Flaylock. If your a strong shield dropsuit than the damage used against you with this weapons is less than its optimal damage. also the time it takes for you to optimally land all 40 rounds compared to landing 3 shots with the flaylock is a major thing to consider. Once your land those three shots damage done could be overcome with another weapon. So i could Flaylock you and if you survived then i would swap weapons and finish you off instead of reloading. While the smg does wonders in Armor damage its pretty weak against shields. The SMG does 94% to shields and 109% to armor - most people have a good shield buffer The Flaylock does 70% to shields and 130% to armor You have to get through the shields to get to the amror. The SMG has 80 bullets in the clip so in my scenario I allowed a user to miss half while making the flaylock user have to land all three direct. The SMG blows through the shield and then will start to do its even higher damage on armor. The Flaylock gets through some players shield and may not with others but then has to be reloaded. Now if my basis is off challenge that but I think my numbers were right and the whole point was that you should judge a weapon on its own merit and the fact that an SMG can handle a shielded weapon much easier than the flaylock which was put up by Monkey as being in the same boat....which it isnt. The numbers were for adv level weapons. My point was never to have the flaylock buffed back to its previous level. I would like to see it on a more level footing with the SMG. In therms or sidearms the Pistol and the Knife are the most deadly but you have to be skilled to use them. The SMG is easy to use but you have to pump in a fair amount of SP to make it deadly. I would hope that the Flaylock would fall in somewhere between those two camps making it harder to use (RoF recduction, splash and radius reduction ) but keeping direct damage high enough (does not have to go back to previous level) for the weapon to be able to stand on its own and not always have to be used in concert with another.

Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 295	Posted - 2013.07.31 14:57:00 - [11] - Quote calisk galern wrote: wouldn't it of been better then to give the flaylock more ammo in the clip and far less damage. if it took 5-6 hit instead of 3 to kill the target it would of resulted in more time to react and a less effective insta kill wepaon Many people complained about the spam - could you imagine 3-4 players firing off that many shots. Also then some reloading at different times so the "rain" could continue - then you would have to up the reload time.... making it longer than the ScR.