You HAVE to fix the Instant Battle Academy. There is absolutely no reason that New Players should be leaving the Academy after 10,000 WP. Theyre getting massacred.

My corporation did a Faction Warfare match in which the enemy team were all using starter sets ( Frontline - Assault/Sniper/Abti-Armor ) and some of us actually stopped firing altogether because it was so badly outmatched. We Q-Synched, which gave us the advantage of organization but this was just slaughter.

The final tally on their team was something akin to 07/93 with only the top five players landing kills. This is a PROBLEM.

New Players DESPERATELY need more time in the Academy and access to Faction Warfare needs to be cut off to Academy players, this is just senseless. To confirm this I have an Alt Character who doesnt even have 600,000 SP and just cleared 10,000 WP and is already out ofthe Academy. This BADLY hurting new player retention and it doesnt give them any semblance of a chance.

THe Academy is fine as is. What's needed is SOMEWHERE else to go after it besides going straight into Pub matches against high geared people.


PvE
Industry

Both should be included as another means to 'get your feet wet' in the beginning and get skill points besides relentlessly grinding against vets.

+1

Also newbies need more instructions, all they want to do is kill (I'm not going to lie, they can't). And they haven't even considered the importance of a NULL Cannon.

The Academy needs to be more of a school not a secluded noob area.

Bhavesh.

Definitely Me and my corp mates end up just frustrated by blueberries not looking out for the obvious like enemy spawn pads that need to be destroyed or remote explosives that are waiting on the objective.

I hardly ever log in anymore due to the protostomping. There have been many threads about the poor matchmaking, and so far I have never seen one answered by CCP. :(

THe Academy is fine as is. What's needed is SOMEWHERE else to go after it besides going straight into Pub matches against high geared people.


PvE
Industry

Both should be included as another means to 'get your feet wet' in the beginning and get skill points besides relentlessly grinding against vets.

What about a voluntary mentor/guide system? Players create an alt thats designated as a mentor/guide and cant attain SP/WP so they stay inthe Academy to show new players the ropes without having to make a new character everytime they leave the Academy?

Give them a highlighted name in Purple or something to catch the eye of new players and special tags. Sort of like ISD but more of aneducational thing.

When you watch them, they only care about shooting, I suppose this has been ingrained in them from other FPS titles.
We have tried various methods to interact in academy.
n00bs who do not activate mic or watch the chat channels are likely not to notice or acknowledge their existence.
It isn't until they ask themselves, "What am I doing wrong?" that they can be taught.
That is where we help.

So as a few people have pointed out in this thread already that the academy itself is fine and actually meets our intended goal which is to provide a safe area to practice the first few games before being thrown in the deep end.

The problem is the deep end is very deep at the moment, and we need an improved matchmaking system to fix this. We are not happy with our current system and so are going back to the drawing board and creating a new matcher to provide more balanced teams. Think of it like a tier system but rather than discrete intervals of 0 - 10,000 WP then 10,000 - 30,000 WP etc we instead have a continuous sliding scale of difficulty and match players based on multiple criteria.

No ETA on delivering this just yet but it is a high priority (I am working on it as we speak).

Thanks so much Nullarbor.

Any changes youre thinking about as far as Faction Warfare? The new player slaughter is just as bad there, unfortunately.

What about a system like Eve in which only certain dropsuits can entire certain sites? Militia/Standard for one site class, allow advanced in for another and then finally Prototype for a no-limits applied style?

Thanks so much Nullarbor.

Any changes youre thinking about as far as Faction Warfare? The new player slaughter is just as bad there, unfortunately.

What about a system like Eve in which only certain dropsuits can entire certain sites? Militia/Standard for one site class, allow advanced in for another and then finally Prototype for a no-limits applied style?

Queueing for faction warfare would be great if we can provide it, maybe even full team sync although this is particularly difficult to get working correctly.

The problem with divisions like certain classes of items is it splits up the pool of available players for the matching system to work effectively. So customization comes at the cost of reduced match quality or potentially long waiting times. This is all part of our experimentation at the moment though and balanced matches is the primary success criteria.

I'm genuinely confused why people want to continue to hold newbs hands even in lowsec.

I'm also worried that CCP would take requests like this seriously as if it would be a good thing.

At some point the training wheels come off and its time to fight and figure out how to getgoodGäó and you don't do that without playing "scary" players.

I'm concerned about the current very low population combining with this new queuing code.

When I asked Foxfour he said there is no method by which you attempt to keep people from being matched with the same people OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

If you deploy this and its horrible...you have a backout plan? You really don't need to leave something like this in place for a month and run the rest of us out of this game.

Actually the motivation for queueing in FW is more to improve the experience of getting into a battle because at the moment it is tricky to get an open spot. We are also designing out some changes to FW which should see it move to being more of a challenge than instant battle.

The new queueing is specifically designed to handle lower population which is one of the flaws of the current system.

If by "challenge" you mean some kind of wager like the old system? I don't like that. Complicated hasn't worked out so far. Leave it in PC.

Why not just have FW be simple.

We queue whatever size group we want into whatever side we want. Size 1-16 WHO CARES.

Matchmaking happens.

We either get a stacked team if available OR the queuing system brings together the best it can.

Fight.

Simple and gets us team fights.

Yes people might run into organized groups! SHOCKING

The might LEARN that its better if they organize by finding another squad to join them in queing first! What a concept.

Lets get some fights going.

Don't make it complicated.

"Hisec is where individuals learn to squad, lowsec is where squads learn to team"

The new queueing is specifically designed to handle lower population which is one of the flaws of the current system.

If there isn't something to fight over, that people want, that didn't exist before the fighting started, it isn't a good incentive.

Clones don't cut it. Gobs of ISK don't even really cut it. Heck maybe you should just give away ~10 AUR per 1000 WP in FW and call it a day.

FW officer weapon variants purchasable with loyalty points, in addition to increased SP/ISK rewards would go a long way in making FW the place to be for well geared players.

So as a few people have pointed out in this thread already that the academy itself is fine and actually meets our intended goal which is to provide a safe area to practice the first few games before being thrown in the deep end.

The problem is the deep end is very deep at the moment, and we need an improved matchmaking system to fix this. We are not happy with our current system and so are going back to the drawing board and creating a new matcher to provide more balanced teams. Think of it like a tier system but rather than discrete intervals of 0 - 10,000 WP then 10,000 - 30,000 WP etc we instead have a continuous sliding scale of difficulty and match players based on multiple criteria.

No ETA on delivering this just yet but it is a high priority (I am working on it as we speak).

Improving overall gear balancing so there is no "best" choice and there are tactical choices to make

[.

Nope.



Something more like this, there is more to it but we're not ready to reveal details just yet.

So does this mean matchmaking won't take gear in consideration? Because I think its a good thing if it doesn't and just split population and create longer ques for proto , etc .

I think its better to balance the gear levels so one isn't better that the other .

You waited quite a while on PC to talk to us and all anyone could help with was fiddle numbers...

I'd like to be able to tell the boys that they will be able to login and get a team queue in 1.3

That and the FPS basics are what we need most.

You waited quite a while on PC to talk to us and all anyone could help with was fiddle numbers...

I'd like to be able to tell the boys that they will be able to login and get a team queue in 1.3

That and the FPS basics are what we need most.

We are still in the design phase, first step will be going through it all with the CPM then we can open it up for further discussion with players.

IMPS do us all a favor and not come inhere to ***** about **** thats irrelevant to the forum topic, seriously. You see a dev post and instantly go into troll mode, just shut up and not say anything if youre not even going to stay on topic.

Lick some more boots. I do not enjoy the taste.

What makes the CPM qualified to make that kind of decision?

So as a few people have pointed out in this thread already that the academy itself is fine and actually meets our intended goal which is to provide a safe area to practice the first few games before being thrown in the deep end.

The problem is the deep end is very deep at the moment, and we need an improved matchmaking system to fix this. We are not happy with our current system and so are going back to the drawing board and creating a new matcher to provide more balanced teams. Think of it like a tier system but rather than discrete intervals of 0 - 10,000 WP then 10,000 - 30,000 WP etc we instead have a continuous sliding scale of difficulty and match players based on multiple criteria.

No ETA on delivering this just yet but it is a high priority (I am working on it as we speak).

LOL.... i just have to bring this up because it is a crossover from similar games that can work. Planet side 2(two) has a real tutorial that not all front loaded text wall just thrown in and hey it does work for them, it throws new players with vets which we had before but without a real tutorial. so back to the point when is there going to be a real tutorial for in-game mechanics? the academy is w/e and doesn't scare away people right away but it is a band aid which doesn't help fix the issue just covers the area until new players leave the academy and then they come here dazed and confused while all kinds of scared of dieing a million times or they just leave all together because the skills they were meant to pick in the academy is not there 9 out of 10 and the deep end is not going better with a better match maker. but hey I'm leaving once PS4 comes out because of other more important issues so if you want to walk that road go ahead.

LOL.... i just have to bring this up because it is a crossover from similar games that can work. Planet side 2(two) has a real tutorial that not all front loaded text wall just thrown in and hey it does work for them, it throws new players with vets which we had before but without a real tutorial. so back to the point when is there going to be a real tutorial for in-game mechanics? the academy is w/e and doesn't scare away people right away but it is a band aid which doesn't help fix the issue just covers the area until new players leave the academy and then they come here dazed and confused while all kinds of scared of dieing a million times or they just leave all together because the skills they were meant to pick in the academy is not there 9 out of 10 and the deep end is not going better with a better match maker. but hey I'm leaving once PS4 comes out because of other more important issues so if you want to walk that road go ahead.

I never had a tutorial in planetside 2 ever and people still ask silly questions like how deploy sunder?

So as a few people have pointed out in this thread already that the academy itself is fine and actually meets our intended goal which is to provide a safe area to practice the first few games before being thrown in the deep end.

The problem is the deep end is very deep at the moment, and we need an improved matchmaking system to fix this. We are not happy with our current system and so are going back to the drawing board and creating a new matcher to provide more balanced teams. Think of it like a tier system but rather than discrete intervals of 0 - 10,000 WP then 10,000 - 30,000 WP etc we instead have a continuous sliding scale of difficulty and match players based on multiple criteria.

No ETA on delivering this just yet but it is a high priority (I am working on it as we speak).

+1

The OP speaks blistering truth.

Some of the guys in my corp have decided to make alts and try to reach out to these players. They would squad up with them and play.
Some of the new players felt it proper to just jump in an LAV and run people over.
They literally would say things like:
"It's better to just use the LAV, and run them over. Best way to get kills."
"My gun doesn't seem to do anything."
"I'm aiming at him but it won't hit."
"I'm going to skill into dropships because they seem really cool."

So from this we are seeing:
1. They have no idea how gun ranges work in this game (and the game offers no information on it).
2. Many issues with aiming and hit detection remain.
3. In light of the first 2, new players are resorting to LAVs and playing bumper cars, just to score.
4. They have no idea what they should skill into... Dropships is a BAD way to spend your money and SP as a noob.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.
10k WP later they leave academy, not even aware that they have "graduated", and get raped so hard (like in the match Aeon describes), that they quit.

Problem? Oh yeah....

Actually the motivation for queueing in FW is more to improve the experience of getting into a battle because at the moment it is tricky to get an open spot. We are also designing out some changes to FW which should see it move to being more of a challenge than instant battle.

The new queueing is specifically designed to handle lower population which is one of the flaws of the current system.

I'm not going to go into the details of how it works because it's complicated and will probably start a huge misinformed discussion. However the end result should be irrespective of whether a player is good because of their gear or their ability to shoot straight or out think the other player, they should be matched with equally challenging opponents.

Time (and many simulations) will tell if we are able to achieve that balance.

You HAVE to fix the Instant Battle Academy. There is absolutely no reason that New Players should be leaving the Academy after 10,000 WP. Theyre getting massacred.

My corporation did a Faction Warfare match in which the enemy team were all using starter sets ( Frontline - Assault/Sniper/Abti-Armor ) and some of us actually stopped firing altogether because it was so badly outmatched. We Q-Synched, which gave us the advantage of organization but this was just slaughter.

The final tally on their team was something akin to 07/93 with only the top five players landing kills. This is a PROBLEM.

New Players DESPERATELY need more time in the Academy and access to Faction Warfare needs to be cut off to Academy players, this is just senseless. To confirm this I have an Alt Character who doesnt even have 600,000 SP and just cleared 10,000 WP and is already out ofthe Academy. This BADLY hurting new player retention and it doesnt give them any semblance of a chance.

i would do matchmaking with 3 levels(until loads of people start hitting the 20 mill sp range):

1. they stay in the academy until they reach 15000 and have something like 1 million sp. if either of these if statements are not met they stay in academy.

2.From there matchmaking will take over and have a limit of 45000 war points and around 5-6 million skill point. again, if either of these requirements are not met they stay in this level of match making

3. after level 2 you get paired up with people that have more than the previous level's limit.

I think it would be hard for people to be abused if we switch to a similar system like this. could i get some feedback on this suggestion?

A. They were elected for being active inthe community, incidentally enough theyre actually pretty civil too.
B. You realize Kane Spero is part of the CPM as well, right? Youre basically questioning one of your own, lol.
C. They also dont propose bullshit solutions like 'leave it be' and then complain that its broken.

A. They were? Really?
B. I trust Kane as an excellent communicator. ALL CPM should be focused on connecting decision makers with those affected. The statement I quoted suggested CPM cannot even relay any conversations on THE make or break feature of this game. There is no reasonable explanation CCP considers it NDA.
C. No idea who you are talking about, but it sure as hell isn't me or anyone I respect. Perhaps projecting yourself?

They already said no to Loyalty Points. And the last thing we need right now is another broken market.

so i guess no one like this my idea?

+1

The OP speaks blistering truth.

Some of the guys in my corp have decided to make alts and try to reach out to these players. They would squad up with them and play.
Some of the new players felt it proper to just jump in an LAV and run people over.
They literally would say things like:
"It's better to just use the LAV, and run them over. Best way to get kills."
"My gun doesn't seem to do anything."
"I'm aiming at him but it won't hit."
"I'm going to skill into dropships because they seem really cool."

So from this we are seeing:
1. They have no idea how gun ranges work in this game (and the game offers no information on it).
2. Many issues with aiming and hit detection remain.
3. In light of the first 2, new players are resorting to LAVs and playing bumper cars, just to score.
4. They have no idea what they should skill into... Dropships is a BAD way to spend your money and SP as a noob.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.
10k WP later they leave academy, not even aware that they have "graduated", and get raped so hard (like in the match Aeon describes), that they quit.

Problem? Oh yeah....

starting off with 500,000 SP and 250,000ISK is a horrbible way to keep noobs in the game. what can you do with 500,000 SP?


I suggest that CCP adjust:

1. the new player initial unallocated SP to 2.5 million SP (with that much initial SP even if you randomly wasted it it wuld eventually become useful for you),
2. initial ISK to 1.5 million ISK.
3. they should have no skill CAP while in the academy,
4. should be able to respec at will while in the academy.
5. once they reach 4 million SP, they then graduate the academy and are informed that they are no longer part of the academy and that there will be no respecs, there is a skill CAP, etc.


most players now have way over 7 million SP. the least amoung experiences players is 5 million SP. with 5 million SP, you can take on even the toughest proto bear, if your skills are in the right spot. giving new players the chance to repec while in academy at will will give them a taste for what they like.

IMPS do us all a favor and not come inhere to ***** about **** thats irrelevant to the forum topic, seriously. You see a dev post and instantly go into troll mode, just shut up and not say anything if youre not even going to stay on topic.

The amount of total accumulated SP directly reflects the amount of player experience.

Directly.

Not necessarily. Someone could create a DUST account, create a character, and leave it be for, say, a year. During that year he accumulates cca. 8.5M SP just through passive skilpoint accrual. By current skillpoint standards that would almost make him a DUST veteran, and that's without playing a single match and firing a single shot. WPs have to be taken into account along with SPs to assess player experience and ability.
Actually, WPs are certainly more reflective of someone's player experience, since they are a measure of what the player achieved by actually playing the game, and not by doing nothing and/or camping in fights.

Not necessarily. Someone could create a DUST account, create a character, and leave it be for, say, a year. During that year he accumulates cca. 8.5M SP just through passive skilpoint accrual. By current skillpoint standards that would almost make him a DUST veteran, and that's without playing a single match and firing a single shot. WPs have to be taken into account along with SPs to assess player experience and ability.
Actually, WPs are certainly more reflective of someone's player experience, since they are a measure of what the player achieved by actually playing the game, and not by doing nothing and/or camping in fights.

Unless youre Logistics who hasno gun game but ridiculous repair/revive/resupply

Suffice to say, if the system can be abused it will be.