Congrats on the turret QQ twas salty.

Posted this in another thread but it applies here as well.


Maybe this will help.

*Starts throwing rocks

Learn to dodge fool.

Oh you know whats the best, tank drivers trying to run you over, you jumping on top of their little toy, then hitting with grenades and bullets and what else have you while they panic and throw it in reverse running to the red line
No joke I rode some dumb bastard all the way across the map with him failing to shake me off

are you guys crazy? you find me saying this is imbalanced on how strong the FGs are is stupid? no wonder why this game is going so slow we got first time beta testers and people not wanting to give up or admit something is OP. learn to dodge? how about you learn to dodge because clearly a rock hit your head.

Dear crying child, this is not a beta. Also its not our fault we were stuck playing the same builds for 6 months and only "tested" 10% of the actual game.

Railguns get zoom, UNLIMITED ammo, less charge time. Railguns also can fire again like 4 times with half a second intervals without needing to charge again (more DPS). You can't balance properly if you only look at one aspect.

and your saying their bonuses don`t make up for the ISK, PG and CPU costs?

There's another fact that's not in the stats, namely that railguns are mounted on an actual vehicle, while the Forge Gun is carried by a squishy heavy infantry person who lights up like a christmas tree before shots.

its only crying if you read it that way, + I`ve probably been here before you also to those reading her (or his) comemnts look to left, oh wait forum troll clan....

Recently? Thought you could no longer do that.

Railguns get zoom, UNLIMITED ammo, less charge time. Railguns also can fire again like 4 times with half a second intervals without needing to charge again (more DPS). You can't balance properly if you only look at one aspect.

My railgun wont kill a tank as fast as a proto forgegun will

Dude are your serious? Vehicles in Dust are the only things in new eden that have unlimited ammo, I don't play EVE but its my understanding that they have to buy their ammo for their space ships. Also you have the option to recall your tank, so quit QQing because you got into a match were the other team came prepared to counter your shiny expensive toy.

OP, you are implying that you been here for quite a while, but why are you crying over FG's now?
Forge guns are one or the few weapons that haven't been buffed/nerfed since the open beta. Why do you think that is?

They are getting Nerfed. Enjoy the other side of the Tear Faucet :P

Think I forgot to mention that he's a DS pilot.
Don't know when he acquired a tank this build

its starting to feel like DUST514 was made by Capcom where guns made for vehicles are fired from the hip, because FGs are as good as LARGE RAILGUNS aka anti tank tank guns, the large railgun has unlimited ammo and a faster fire rate true, but does less damage and considering its cost in ISK, AUR , PG and CPU and requirements this would be crazy to say its balanced, heavy weapons should be toe to toe with small turrets (the small rail guns need a buff btw) but feast your own eyes on the stats, do take inot mind I didn`t post the cost and power requirments so these stats are actually in favor of the FG and it is still obvious they are OP:

Large railgun turret
STD: DD 1106.9 SD 180 BR 2.3 FI 1.8 CUT 0.3
ADV: DD 1272.9 SD 207 BR 2.5 FI 1.8 CUT 0.3
PRO: DD 1438.9 SD 234 BR 2.5 FI 1.8 CUT 0.3

Large compressed railgun
STD: DD 1383.6 SD 225 BR 2.5 FI 2.2 CUT 0.2
ADV: DD 1591.1 SD 258.8 BR 2.5 FI 2.2 CUT 0.2
PRO: DD 1798.7 SD 292.5 BR 2.5 FI 2.2 CUT 0.2


Assault FG stats:
STD: no item.
ADV: DD 1524.6 SD 254.1 BR 2.8 FI none CUT 2.5
PRO: DD 1663.2 SD 277.2 BR 3.0 FI none CUT 2.5

Breach FG stats:
STD: DD 2310 SD 231 BR 1.2 FI none CUT 6.0
ADV: DD 2514 SD 254.1 BR 1.4 FI none CUT 6.0
PRO: DD 2777.2 SD 277.2 BR 1.5 FI none CUT 6.0

normal FG stats:
STD: DD 1320 SD 232 BR 2.0 FI none CUT 3.5
ADV: DD 1452 SD 245.1 BR 2.8 FI none CUT 3.5
PRO: DD 1584 SD 277.2 BR 3.0 FI none CUT 3.5

normal small railguns:
STD: DD 412.5 SD 90 BR 0.7 FI 1.4
ADV: DD 495 SD 108 BR 0.7 FI 1.4
PRO: DD 536.2 SD 117 BR 0.7 FI 1.4

Compressed small railguns:
STD: DD 472.5 SD 90 BR 0.7 FI 1.4
ADV: DD 565 SD 108 BR 0.7 FI 1.4
PRO: DD 616.2 SD 117 BR 0.7 FI 1.4

This might just be a hunch, but I'm pretty sure that's why they are called "anti-armor". Whatever that may mean...

This might just be a hunch, but I'm pretty sure that's why they are called "anti-armor". Whatever that may mean...

Can I replace my Large Turret with a Forge Gun, please?

its starting to feel like DUST514 was made by Capcom where guns made for vehicles are fired from the hip, because FGs are as good as LARGE RAILGUNS aka anti tank tank guns, the large railgun has unlimited ammo and a faster fire rate true, but does less damage and considering its cost in ISK, AUR , PG and CPU and requirements this would be crazy to say its balanced, heavy weapons should be toe to toe with small turrets (the small rail guns need a buff btw) but feast your own eyes on the stats, do take inot mind I didn`t post the cost and power requirments so these stats are actually in favor of the FG and it is still obvious they are OP:

Large railgun turret
STD: DD 1106.9 SD 180 BR 2.3 FI 1.8 CUT 0.3
ADV: DD 1272.9 SD 207 BR 2.5 FI 1.8 CUT 0.3
PRO: DD 1438.9 SD 234 BR 2.5 FI 1.8 CUT 0.3

Large compressed railgun
STD: DD 1383.6 SD 225 BR 2.5 FI 2.2 CUT 0.2
ADV: DD 1591.1 SD 258.8 BR 2.5 FI 2.2 CUT 0.2
PRO: DD 1798.7 SD 292.5 BR 2.5 FI 2.2 CUT 0.2


Assault FG stats:
STD: no item.
ADV: DD 1524.6 SD 254.1 BR 2.8 FI none CUT 2.5
PRO: DD 1663.2 SD 277.2 BR 3.0 FI none CUT 2.5

Breach FG stats:
STD: DD 2310 SD 231 BR 1.2 FI none CUT 6.0
ADV: DD 2514 SD 254.1 BR 1.4 FI none CUT 6.0
PRO: DD 2777.2 SD 277.2 BR 1.5 FI none CUT 6.0

normal FG stats:
STD: DD 1320 SD 232 BR 2.0 FI none CUT 3.5
ADV: DD 1452 SD 245.1 BR 2.8 FI none CUT 3.5
PRO: DD 1584 SD 277.2 BR 3.0 FI none CUT 3.5

normal small railguns:
STD: DD 412.5 SD 90 BR 0.7 FI 1.4
ADV: DD 495 SD 108 BR 0.7 FI 1.4
PRO: DD 536.2 SD 117 BR 0.7 FI 1.4

Compressed small railguns:
STD: DD 472.5 SD 90 BR 0.7 FI 1.4
ADV: DD 565 SD 108 BR 0.7 FI 1.4
PRO: DD 616.2 SD 117 BR 0.7 FI 1.4

My railgun wont kill a tank as fast as a proto forgegun will

Can I replace my Large Turret with a Forge Gun, please?

but your tank will live longer. you also have twice the range.

you wont be able to red line any more. your shots wont reach anything

you wont be able to red line any more. your shots wont reach anything

Forge gunners are great for their job, but far from OP, they are easy sniper targets, have minimal fightback ability when closed down, leave as

I think that game mechanics wise, the FG is a little OP at the moment, but ADV and PROTO tanks should fix that.

On the other hand, lore and just plain common sense wise, it's rather messed up

go with the PRO Breach, does 1k more damage then the compressed PRO large railgun and with the total of 8,400 HP damage per MAG reloading won`t be necessary since the tank would be dead!

but your tank will live longer. you also have twice the range.

Just be careful about firing it, because it takes 6 seconds to charge and you'll be a sitting duck while it charges. Then again, who can kill a tank in 6 seconds?

The whole argument that the FG is overpowered is based on pretty shaky math and an adherence to a certain idea about how things work. It's like when people complain that each HMG bullet should do as much damage as an AR bullet. There are a ton of balancing factors that don't even have to do with the weapon itself, but with the roles that can equip the weapons, the other modules that can be equipped, the mobility of the respective bearers, armor/shield levels, susceptibility to other battlefield roles, etc.

I realize this is all going to sound like gibberish to the person who says 2777 damage every 6.0 seconds is better than 1798 damage every 2.4 seconds, but there's a lot more that goes into balancing than just raw damage.

I guess they should allow you to but a breach on top of your tank, but bare in mind you will charge for 5+ seconds, while not being able to move at all.

Did you quickly compared DPS by the way?
Show us your results.

Just be careful about firing it, because it takes 6 seconds to charge and you'll be a sitting duck while it charges. Then again, who can kill a tank in 6 seconds?

The whole argument that the FG is overpowered is based on pretty shaky math and an adherence to a certain idea about how things work. It's like when people complain that each HMG bullet should do as much damage as an AR bullet. There are a ton of balancing factors that don't even have to do with the weapon itself, but with the roles that can equip the weapons, the other modules that can be equipped, the mobility of the respective bearers, armor/shield levels, susceptibility to other battlefield roles, etc.

I realize this is all going to sound like gibberish to the person who says 2777 damage every 6.0 seconds is better than 1798 damage every 2.4 seconds, but there's a lot more that goes into balancing than just raw damage.

sorry I forgot what DPS was..... Direct splash damage is all I can think of and if that's it, DD = Direct damage SD = splash damage...

Forge gunners are great for their job, but far from OP, they are easy sniper targets, have minimal fightback ability when closed down, leave as

Raw numbers mean everything. Raw numbers are all that matter. Take nothing outside of math into consideration. Math is king. Math is omnipitent. If a number is greater than another number, the greater number should be reduced to the smaller number in the name of balance.

Ignore the fact that a rail tank gets to fire while keeping all of his speed, has unlimited ammo, never needs to reload, is nearly immune to all forms of non-AV weaponry, and makes children have nightmares of metal monsters drilling holes through their homes.

Ignore the fact that a forge gunner must deal with full damage from every weapon type, takes at least two seconds to fire, loses most of his already non-existant mobility while charging (or becomes immobile if you're using Breach), has a very limited clip, and can only watch in dismay as his prey leaves his sight with no hope of ever catching up to him.

But one number is bigger than the other, so forge is OP and should be nerfed.

I guess they should allow you to but a breach on top of your tank, but bare in mind you will charge for 5+ seconds, while not being able to move at all.

Did you quickly compared DPS by the way?
Show us your results.

sure...
large standard proto rail 798
large compressed proto 817
assault FG proto w/ reduced CUT 886
standard FG proto w/ reduce CUT 603
breach FG proto w/ reduce CUT 617


as you can see the assault forge wins the dps race and this is before damage related skill bonuses but the numbers still holds up.

dildos.

The DPS on a railgun is way higher, it fires twice as fast,

I take it you don't like to see your point go wrong

point in question^ I just shown the DPS so now for the RoF. the RoF on rails is a hard 1.8 for standard and 2.2 for compressed while there is no RoF but a charge up timer and the charge up timer for the assault forge after its skill (5% per level reduce) bring it down to 1.875. if you want to say something have a real point to bring up rather then one sided
guesses.

its not even over a hundred points in DPS. I just wanted to state the fact so people stop throwing out incorrect information, if you going to argue have logic and math and numbers behind to back it up. this thread really is not about the damage, it is about idea of realism which is a null idea in games for balance. btw proto forge can take out a RDV in a single clip.

No on the RDVs... Not the assault, not without mods. Breach, but that's not really a viable weapon at all. It's just not

Oh you know whats the best, tank drivers trying to run you over, you jumping on top of their little toy, then hitting with grenades and bullets and what else have you while they panic and throw it in reverse running to the red line
No joke I rode some dumb bastard all the way across the map with him failing to shake me off

Raw numbers mean everything. Raw numbers are all that matter. Take nothing outside of math into consideration. Math is king. Math is omnipitent. If a number is greater than another number, the greater number should be reduced to the smaller number in the name of balance.

Ignore the fact that a rail tank gets to fire while keeping all of his speed, has unlimited ammo, never needs to reload, is nearly immune to all forms of non-AV weaponry, and makes children have nightmares of metal monsters drilling holes through their homes.

Ignore the fact that a forge gunner must deal with full damage from every weapon type, takes at least two seconds to fire, loses most of his already non-existant mobility while charging (or becomes immobile if you're using Breach), has a very limited clip, and can only watch in dismay as his prey leaves his sight with no hope of ever catching up to him.

But one number is bigger than the other, so forge is OP and should be nerfed.

see this here children is a 1 sided argument where you only list the issues with 1 side and a positive while listing positives of the other yet completely ignoring its issues because everyone knows since this conversation has been going longer that theres already counter claims to this.

so in stead of repeating myself I`ll just say, yes math is important, it allows you to count with your fingers a trick you haven't learned yet:

1) ISK cost is WAY more, at times 30x more if I`m not mistaken.

2) PG is 1k

3) CPU is above a 100

etc, got to say that you know what your talking about, because the tank can`t take damage from anti trooper guns the weapon must not be OP, thanks for your heavenly logic its been a laugh.

its not even over a hundred points in DPS. I just wanted to state the fact so people stop throwing out incorrect information, if you going to argue have logic and math and numbers behind to back it up. this thread really is not about the damage, it is about idea of realism which is a null idea in games for balance. btw proto forge can take out a RDV in a single clip.

So you're trying to call out Flying Pig for pointing out the issues you so conveniently ignored? That's pure ego right there. You get one argument shot out from under you and you find something else and you'll run this pattern in a circle. You're one of those people that just can't admit you're wrong even when something is laid out simply before you. If it's not damage, it's fitting, if it's not fitting it's cost. If you have so much problem with Dust 514's hard counter to armor, maybe you should go play something else. The forge is doing it's job as intended. We can tell because some tank jocks are QQing about it. Not all of them, not even a majority. Just some.

in my opinion (I`ve been thinking about it for a while and in some aspects I know I was wrong), FGs need a 50-150 DD nerf and small railguns need a 150-250 DD buff. In the long run PRO and maybe even ADV tanks would litterly need a team of FGers to take down or a AV vehicle and in my opinion that's fare, I truly don`t see why 1 man (yes this is the future I agree but I`m sure vehicles get improved material and tech as well) should be able to take out a tank, MAV, LAV, LAA or DS that makes sense but a heavy vehicle I think should require a AV turret or air support, a strike, a group of people or something so that's where I`m coming from. 1 of my other faults was my title, all things considered the FG isn`t the #1 (off topic, I used the Flaylock PRO 2 weeks ago, yes OP barely specked into it, so when it comes to a change in stats by % rather then number count different the flaylocks there), also there aren't as much OP weapons as there are other things OP, weapon wise most things are UP (kinda funny reading that but it is honest). so going back on topic, can we agree that a 50-150 DD damage nerf isn`t over reacting but a fare place to play and see?

Oh you know whats the best, tank drivers trying to run you over, you jumping on top of their little toy, then hitting with grenades and bullets and what else have you while they panic and throw it in reverse running to the red line
No joke I rode some dumb bastard all the way across the map with him failing to shake me off

Let's look at raw Proto Forge Guns (w/Operation skill). Remember that the charge time before each shot is a constant therefore Damage Per Second (DPS) remains the same regardless of number of shots fired.

Kaalakiota: 1584.0 damage, 3.5 (2.625) sec charge time. DPS = 452.571(603.429)
Ishukone Assault Forge Gun: 1663.2 damage, 2.5 (1.875) sec charge time. DPS = 665.28(887.04)
Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun: 2773.0 damage, 6 (4.5) second charge (immobilized) DPS = 462.167(616.222)

Now let's look at raw Proto Rail Turrets. Remember, large rail turret charges in .3 seconds and that is when it fires it's first shot. Following shots are at the 1.8/2.2 second refire rate. I'm going to figure DPS over two (three) shots as a supposed tanker swore up and down that a Proto Compressed Particle Cannon overheats on the third shot no exceptions, otherwise I'd figure it over four shots.

80GJ Regulated/Particle Cannon: 1438.9, .3 second spool, 1.8 second refire. DPS = 1370.381(1106.846)
80GJ Compressed Particle Cannon: 1798.7, .3 second spool, 2.2 second refire. DPS = 1438.96(1148.106)

So, the Large Rail Turrets outperform Proto Forge Guns in damage over time.

So then we tank drivers are just supposed to sit there and let you take out our hp with a forge gun that does more damage than our rail gun on the same gear level? No. I don't think so.

buff the rail gun cannons (large turrets) so that they do at least 100 more damage to HP than the forge guns of the same level, that way the logic will make sense, otherwise you should just equipped a breach forge gun as the main cannon on a tank because the rail gun of the same level is weaker which makes no sense

trade ya?

you can have the breach forge gun for ur main turret if i get the large railgun as a heavy weapon, both as they are in the game right now of course

I made a video expressing the OP's Concerns

Please leave comment if you agree.

Thanks

Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this.........

Planetside 2

Coming to PS4 this year

Railguns get zoom, UNLIMITED ammo, less charge time. Railguns also can fire again like 4 times with half a second intervals without needing to charge again (more DPS). You can't balance properly if you only look at one aspect.

The "balance" your looking for can be found in the fact that Heavy suits sprint at 5 m/s while a tank goes over 20 (if im not mistaken). What you lack in damage is made up for in mobility, Though I will admit that its weird how a handheld weapon does more damage then a tank mounted turret. Who knows, maybe one day tanks will get another HP buff, or a PG/CPU buff.

Let's look at raw Proto Forge Guns (w/Operation skill 5). Remember that the charge time before each shot is a constant therefore Damage Per Second (DPS) remains the same regardless of number of shots fired.

Kaalakiota: 1584.0 damage, 3.5 (2.625) sec charge time. DPS = 452.571(603.429)
Ishukone Assault Forge Gun: 1663.2 damage, 2.5 (1.875) sec charge time. DPS = 665.28(887.04)
Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun: 2773.0 damage, 6 (4.5) second charge (immobilized) DPS = 462.167(616.222)

Now let's look at raw Proto Rail Turrets. Remember, large rail turret charges in .3 seconds and that is when it fires it's first shot. Following shots are at the 1.8/2.2 second refire rate. I'm going to figure DPS over two (three) shots as a supposed tanker swore up and down that a Proto Compressed Particle Cannon overheats on the third shot no exceptions, otherwise I'd figure it over four shots.

80GJ Regulated/Particle Cannon: 1438.9, .3 second spool, 1.8 second refire. DPS = 1370.381(1106.846)
80GJ Compressed Particle Cannon: 1798.7, .3 second spool, 2.2 second refire. DPS = 1438.96(1148.106)

So, the Large Rail Turrets outperform Proto Forge Guns in damage over time.

Knee jerk reaction here so I may be over reacting but it reads like you want infantry based AV to be a deterrent to heavy armor rather than a threat. You reasoning appears to be because one man can't be a threat heavy armor.

May I point you to the dragon missile system. One man carrying two missiles and a launcher quite capable of crippling, if not destroying, a main battle tank with one shot.

But then reality makes for an unbalanced game. A game where some tank jocks want the other team to severely handicap themselves to deal with one or two vehicular threats if they use infantry based AV. Requiring a four or six man AV team to take out a HAV will be fine when we're running 60 vs 60. But at 16 vs 16, it's just not a feasible option. Tanks will either run around opposed, but not threatened, while the non-AV infantry's ability to take and hold points will be handicapped, or all infantry based AV, except grenades, will become nearly extinct and people will QQ about there being too many tanks on the battlefield that they can't counter. Wait... That last one is already happeing. LOL

Personally, the primary thing I see wrong with HAVs is that they don't have the PG/CPU to properly fit the modules to fit the differing play styles of the various tank jocks. I'm sure there will be proto hulls coming, but until then... Tank Jocks are going to have to work with what CCP has available to them. And the advanced hulls... Their shield and armor bases need to be brought up to match the basics. I know the difference isn't much, but every little bit helps.

So no. In my opinion Infantry AV doesn't need much of a fix (cough, AV Grenades, cough), but HAVs do need work.

Oh wow. Look at that. A dedicated forge gunner arguing for HAV fixes. Imagine that.

LOL at all the tank drivers suffering from forge gun envy... stop being a bunch of aspies and think about this a bit.

Railguns are balanced for tank vs tank battles, not tank vs heavy battles. If they up the damage on railguns then tank vs. tank battles would be one shot shorter, they're fast enough as it is. A railtank vs heavy is a one shot victory for the tank already,.

This "discussion" is a waste of time that serves to real purpose.

I said PRO AVs that should accure, in STD is should be able to be 1 manned FGered (speed of death determines of FG... aka what we have now) ADV should have better chances but not to high of an increase 9the highest change of stats, modules etc accure in ADV-PRO so that's why I say that) but PRO? yes a team of AV not 1 man, 2 AV at least. since its a PRO HAV (Heavy Attack vehicle) I think so (Glass cannon tanks would be easier to destroy then other PRO still but normal role and HP role should take a team). yes in reality there are AV weapons that can take out tanks with 1 shot, and in other games that don`t have these balanced arguments have 3 shot kill tanks (with an RPG) but if you think that's the way for tanks then use the rest of the HP mechanics for the ifnrnatry 1-5 bullets kills to a normal/light unit. DUST514 uses a health bar (not trying to be rude here even though it comes out like that) system that takes longer to deplete so take the same consideration for the HAVs, yes it will take a team to destroy a PRO HAV at the current / average speed of a tankers encounter to die, 1 man to do it? sure but that's going to be a while.

Let's look at raw Proto Forge Guns (w/Operation skill). Remember that the charge time before each shot is a constant therefore Damage Per Second (DPS) remains the same regardless of number of shots fired.

Kaalakiota: 1584.0 damage, 3.5 (2.625) sec charge time. DPS = 452.571(603.429)
Ishukone Assault Forge Gun: 1663.2 damage, 2.5 (1.875) sec charge time. DPS = 665.28(887.04)
Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun: 2773.0 damage, 6 (4.5) second charge (immobilized) DPS = 462.167(616.222)

Now let's look at raw Proto Rail Turrets. Remember, large rail turret charges in .3 seconds and that is when it fires it's first shot. Following shots are at the 1.8/2.2 second refire rate. I'm going to figure DPS over two (three) shots as a supposed tanker swore up and down that a Proto Compressed Particle Cannon overheats on the third shot no exceptions, otherwise I'd figure it over four shots.

80GJ Regulated/Particle Cannon: 1438.9, .3 second spool, 1.8 second refire. DPS = 1370.381(1106.846)
80GJ Compressed Particle Cannon: 1798.7, .3 second spool, 2.2 second refire. DPS = 1438.96(1148.106)

So, the Large Rail Turrets outperform Proto Forge Guns in damage over time.

Most aren't considering the fact that Heavies turn slower than rail guns....

I am a complete noob.

I have not driven a vehicle, aerial or land, but I'm coming in here to give my worthless opinion so my Assault Rifle can still trump anyone on the battlefield.

In fact, I think vehicles need a nerf, including those OP dropships, because they are the only things in the game capable of flight, and a Gunnlogi can get more eHP than my Caldari Logi, which is completely wrong, the Logi Cal suit is in need of a serious buff. I'd also like to add speed bumps for LAVs, because I have been destroying newbs too much with my no skill weapon that I have lost all of my reflexes and situational awareness, because all I'm required to do is point and shoot when using my AR.

Please CCP, I thought this game was called AR 514?

Lol at forge cry thread.... you want to talk op? Av grenades bro..... solo ANY tank without any effort, skill or strategy....

Forge is fine, rail is fine, blaster is fine, tanks are UP against adv/proto av.

AR is the backbone of troopers.

that doesn`t make DSes OP

why am I even replying to this? lol

your numbers are wrong for the rail turrets you don't count the charge up time on the first shot just like in forges

Other notes:

- Limited, although large, ammo supply (or capacitor) for tank weps should be implemented
- For heavy suits it's far easier to fit Damage Modifiers. 2-3 is quite common as infantry role allows sacrificing HP tanking and still filling your role. HAVs cannot do this (with the exception of redline tanks which accept the fact they cannot dominate entire field and are suscepectible to OBs)
- The spool timer, holding the shot, repetitive shots, time between repetitive shots, heat buildup are all things that can be toyed with if needed. They are less radical ways of tweaking than hard values like range or alpha damage.
- Reload time for rail guns instead of heat? Both?

You process is wrong. Charge time before the first shot is a large factor in figuring DPS when comparing weapons, otherwise the numbers will not accurately reflect weapon performance.