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Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
616
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
ScR is one of the few weapons CCP got right. Anyone complaining about it is going to complain about every gun they either don't use or are killed by. Go play Harvest Moon.
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Delenne Arran
Ivory Hounds
0
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:21:00 -
[62] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:
Nope
You can put in variable levels of charge, happens to me all the time by mistake because i my first button press sticks sometimes when i use my mouse. It unequivocally raises the charge meter.
Also yes half charges work extremely well in a triple tap type of shot. Half charge follwed by 2 rapid shots usualy drops most people.
Glad someone else could confirm the damage difference. I was pretty sure about it, but not 100%. I wasn't really clear when I mentioned it in that second post, but the problem wouldn't be a difference in damage-- 20 ever-so-slightly charged shots spread across an overheat SHOULD do more damage than 20 charged-slightly-less ones fired rapidly. The problem would be if the latter did the SAME amount of damage. |
Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
155
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:22:00 -
[63] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:::facepalm:: ffs, change the title of your thread then. If you're reporting a bug, SAY IT'S A BUG. SR abuse?
It's not just about a bug, the fact that you can squeeze out more shots with a modded input is just a byproduct of looking at everything else.
Even if a modded Scrambler Rifle hit overheat at.. I think 11 was the upper threshold someone mentioned getting manually... even at that limit you're still looking at hitting almost 850 dmg from those 11 shots and at 705 rpm that's about a second worth of firing.
That's almost double the damage you could get out of the actual prototype assault variant, all out of a 1500isk standard weapon.
This is why it's more about the abuse of the high ROF on a high damage weapon than the overheating "bug".
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xprotoman23
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1880
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
OP sucks at DUST |
Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
155
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:ScR is one of the few weapons CCP got right. Anyone complaining about it is going to complain about every gun they either don't use or are killed by. Go play Harvest Moon.
The Scrambler Rifleis one of the few weapons CCP got right... if it's used the way it was intended.
It was intended to be a semi-auto weapon with a rate of fire limited by human input. It was not intended to be an automatic weapon with a rate of fire limited by the 705rpm upper limit. This is where the problem lies. |
Heimdallr69
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
208
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:26:00 -
[66] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:::facepalm:: ffs, change the title of your thread then. If you're reporting a bug, SAY IT'S A BUG. SR abuse? It's not just about a bug, the fact that you can squeeze out more shots with a modded input is just a byproduct of looking at everything else. Even if a modded Scrambler Rifle hit overheat at.. I think 11 was the upper threshold someone mentioned getting manually... even at that limit you're still looking at hitting almost 850 dmg from those 11 shots and at 705 rpm that's about a second worth of firing. That's almost double the damage you could get out of the actual prototype assault variant, all out of a 1500isk standard weapon. This is why it's more about the abuse of the high ROF on a high damage weapon than the overheating "bug". You realize only a few people could pull that off most people would miss atleast a few shots unless the target is standing still then it wouldn't matter a headshot would kill you |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1761
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:29:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:ScR is one of the few weapons CCP got right. Anyone complaining about it is going to complain about every gun they either don't use or are killed by. Go play Harvest Moon.
The Scrambler Rifleis one of the few weapons CCP got right... if it's used the way it was intended. It was intended to be a semi-auto weapon with a rate of fire limited by human input. It was not intended to be an automatic weapon with a rate of fire limited by the 705rpm upper limit. This is where the problem lies.
Oh really, so they just randomly decided 705 rpm because they didn't expect people to actually be able to shoot that fast? |
True Adamance
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
65
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Mike Poole wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:::facepalm:: ffs, change the title of your thread then. If you're reporting a bug, SAY IT'S A BUG. SR abuse? It's not just about a bug, the fact that you can squeeze out more shots with a modded input is just a byproduct of looking at everything else. Even if a modded Scrambler Rifle hit overheat at.. I think 11 was the upper threshold someone mentioned getting manually... even at that limit you're still looking at hitting almost 850 dmg from those 11 shots and at 705 rpm that's about a second worth of firing. That's almost double the damage you could get out of the actual prototype assault variant, all out of a 1500isk standard weapon. This is why it's more about the abuse of the high ROF on a high damage weapon than the overheating "bug". You realize only a few people could pull that off most people would miss atleast a few shots unless the target is standing still then it wouldn't matter a headshot would kill you
Even as a pure scrambler user since I came out I'm rarely able to pull off such a clean kill. |
Delenne Arran
Ivory Hounds
0
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:31:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:::facepalm:: ffs, change the title of your thread then. If you're reporting a bug, SAY IT'S A BUG. SR abuse? It's not just about a bug, the fact that you can squeeze out more shots with a modded input is just a byproduct of looking at everything else. Even if a modded Scrambler Rifle hit overheat at.. I think 11 was the upper threshold someone mentioned getting manually... even at that limit you're still looking at hitting almost 850 dmg from those 11 shots and at 705 rpm that's about a second worth of firing. That's almost double the damage you could get out of the actual prototype assault variant, all out of a 1500isk standard weapon. This is why it's more about the abuse of the high ROF on a high damage weapon than the overheating "bug".
I do take issue with this, though. The Assault variant on a given level does a bit more than half damage per shot as the regular ones, BUT using the Assault variants and firing continuously, I can get around 1 & 1/2 clips before overheating (total of around 100 shots). You basically trade off some damage per second for not having to watch your gauge. |
Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
155
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:33:00 -
[70] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Mike Poole wrote:Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:ScR is one of the few weapons CCP got right. Anyone complaining about it is going to complain about every gun they either don't use or are killed by. Go play Harvest Moon.
The Scrambler Rifleis one of the few weapons CCP got right... if it's used the way it was intended. It was intended to be a semi-auto weapon with a rate of fire limited by human input. It was not intended to be an automatic weapon with a rate of fire limited by the 705rpm upper limit. This is where the problem lies. Oh really, so they just randomly decided 705 rpm because they didn't expect people to actually be able to shoot that fast?
I would imagine the fact that just today they dropped the RPM on all the TAR by about 40% that it would be obvious they didn't put much thought into the RPM for semi-automatic weapons.
If anything they likely decided on a rate for the automatic variants and then just retained it across the board on the assumption no one would ever hit that high through normal means.
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Heimdallr69
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
208
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Mike Poole wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:::facepalm:: ffs, change the title of your thread then. If you're reporting a bug, SAY IT'S A BUG. SR abuse? It's not just about a bug, the fact that you can squeeze out more shots with a modded input is just a byproduct of looking at everything else. Even if a modded Scrambler Rifle hit overheat at.. I think 11 was the upper threshold someone mentioned getting manually... even at that limit you're still looking at hitting almost 850 dmg from those 11 shots and at 705 rpm that's about a second worth of firing. That's almost double the damage you could get out of the actual prototype assault variant, all out of a 1500isk standard weapon. This is why it's more about the abuse of the high ROF on a high damage weapon than the overheating "bug". You realize only a few people could pull that off most people would miss atleast a few shots unless the target is standing still then it wouldn't matter a headshot would kill you Even as a pure scrambler user since I came out I'm rarely able to pull off such a clean kill. That's what I'm saying I skilled into it the first day but got tired of overheating so I went to the tar, its not as easy as people think you can't spray with it like you could with the tar..op obviously never used a scrambler |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
310
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
Delenne Arran wrote:Gunner Nightingale wrote:
Nope
You can put in variable levels of charge, happens to me all the time by mistake because i my first button press sticks sometimes when i use my mouse. It unequivocally raises the charge meter.
Also yes half charges work extremely well in a triple tap type of shot. Half charge follwed by 2 rapid shots usualy drops most people.
Glad someone else could confirm the damage difference. I was pretty sure about it, but not 100%. I wasn't really clear when I mentioned it in that second post, but the problem wouldn't be a difference in damage-- 20 ever-so-slightly charged shots spread across an overheat SHOULD do more damage than 20 charged-slightly-less ones fired rapidly. The problem would be if the latter did the SAME amount of damage. If we assume that heat buildup and damage are directly related to each other then those slightly less charged shots should also deal less dmg.
The question remains if the damage is reduced by the same relative amount as the number of possible shots is increased (we are talking about at least 70% here). If it is then we have a weapon that behaves just differently when used with clocked signals, wich is still not good. If it's not...
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THEDRiZZLE Aqua teen
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
Shut up its fine all of dust agrees qq about something else |
True Adamance
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
65
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:True Adamance wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Mike Poole wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:::facepalm:: ffs, change the title of your thread then. If you're reporting a bug, SAY IT'S A BUG. SR abuse? It's not just about a bug, the fact that you can squeeze out more shots with a modded input is just a byproduct of looking at everything else. Even if a modded Scrambler Rifle hit overheat at.. I think 11 was the upper threshold someone mentioned getting manually... even at that limit you're still looking at hitting almost 850 dmg from those 11 shots and at 705 rpm that's about a second worth of firing. That's almost double the damage you could get out of the actual prototype assault variant, all out of a 1500isk standard weapon. This is why it's more about the abuse of the high ROF on a high damage weapon than the overheating "bug". You realize only a few people could pull that off most people would miss atleast a few shots unless the target is standing still then it wouldn't matter a headshot would kill you Even as a pure scrambler user since I came out I'm rarely able to pull off such a clean kill. That's what I'm saying I skilled into it the first day but got tired of overheating so I went to the tar, its not as easy as people think you can't spray with it like you could with the tar..op obviously never used a scrambler
Its not that easy at all. Having to manage how much you want to fire at you target, do you want to hold some charge back to deal with that guys buddies, are you in a bad enough position to warrant and overload (cause if you are you cant throw grenades or switch weapons for 6 seconds), or even are you opponents shield tankers because if they aren't they're gonna be mightly pissed off with you. |
element0mega
Elements Of Death Elite
25
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:So it didn't even take 24 hours for most of of the turbo button TAC users to switch over to Scrambler Rifles huh?
It takes 20 shots before the Scrambler Rifle overheats, at 72 damage a shot and 705 rpm that means you're spitting out about 1440 damage in roughly 1.7 seconds or almost 850 damage a second... for a weapon that costs 12440sp to unlock and 1500 isk a pop.
The advanced assault variant only manages 440 damage per second because it correctly has a lowered damage to account for its max rpm, half the damage for about 12 times the price and 25 times the SP invested.
Are you ****ing kidding me?
Nerf everything!!! :). Actually they nerf'd the Tac and Glu way too much IMO. The range should increased for all guns. |
Cruor Abominare
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:43:00 -
[76] - Quote
I'll spell it outnsince no one can read. The scram rifles determine heat build up by seconds of firing, it's listed on their stat page. By using a modded controller you can actually hit the super high rof and actually hit about 20 shots before it blows up.
Firing speed and number of shots don't affect it, in fact unless you go a full second without firing the heat won't start to dissipate, making most attempted at pace controlled firing totally worthless unless you think sub 80 dps is good.
It's largely a dumb weapon because of how they programmed heat which I'm sure had something to do with improving server performance.
Sorry if I exposed some pc corps plan for this week. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
363
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:44:00 -
[77] - Quote
Green Living wrote:THE LASER RIFLE IS OP. I GOT KILLED BY IT ONCE.
So your the guy I biomassed |
Byozuma Kegawa
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
123
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Posted - 2013.06.06 04:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
I used the standard scrambler rifle on Uprising launch to the exclusion of all other Light weapons save the laser rifle and... I kept burning myself. I've since skilled into the assault scrambler rifle and I still occasionally burn myself (though nowhere near as much). I don't see how the weapon is even remotely as bad as the tactical assault rifles were. Yeah, it can deal alot of damage, but it's building heat with each and every shot, moreso if you charge it. That's why it has that damage, because you're going to hurt yourself with it if you're not careful. And the assault variant's damage is on par with that of the standard assault rifles.
Really, the sentiment in the thread about how certain people are just wanting to have the other weapons dragged down so that the tacticals are back on top is pretty spot on. |
Vin Vicious
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
124
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Posted - 2013.06.06 05:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
It's more like 15shots with no charge shot, rapid fire eg you can't use modded controllers for an base SR, and this is if you're FULLY SPEC'D into Amarr eg lvl 5 suits skill. basically I spec'd into Amarr for an extra five shots, so give me a break cry baby, daddy's home
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Cinnamon267
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
79
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Posted - 2013.06.06 06:55:00 -
[80] - Quote
I believe the weapon is fine. The overheat bar seems to be the problem. I've noticed it. The faster you fire the slower it warms up. If you are taking your time and firing shots instead of going wild, it will overheat with fewer rounds. It may be bugged. Who knows? Like to know if it is and have it addressed. |
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SERPENT-Adamapple
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
93
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:14:00 -
[81] - Quote
OP is correct on his title. It is abuse if someone uses mods. He never meant for CCP to release the nerf krakken on the SR. He is simply stating that there is a bug/glitch that can be exploited making the weapon OP.
Good find OP, I have specced into it even before release and love how It's a skill based weapon, but would hate to see it be the FOTM because some people like to use a crutch to cheat. If anyone disagrees with OP, then they're probably mod users themselves. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
105
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
And the jumping continues,good thing i armor tank like a boss |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1311
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:23:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ignatius Crumwald wrote:Apparently.... The faster you shoot with the Scrambler rifle, the slower it heats up...
shtdntmknosns Yup there is a problem with the weapon, It only takes me like 9 shots to overheat if I fire quickly |
TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
59
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:23:00 -
[84] - Quote
No need to resort to lying. the scrambler rifle takes about 14 shots max before it overheats and that is me pushing as fast as i can. |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet
78
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:41:00 -
[85] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:So it didn't even take 24 hours for most of of the turbo button TAC users to switch over to Scrambler Rifles huh?
It takes 20 shots before the Scrambler Rifle overheats, at 72 damage a shot and 705 rpm that means you're spitting out about 1440 damage in roughly 1.7 seconds or almost 850 damage a second... for a weapon that costs 12440sp to unlock and 1500 isk a pop.
The advanced assault variant only manages 440 damage per second because it correctly has a lowered damage to account for its max rpm, half the damage for about 12 times the price and 25 times the SP invested.
Are you ****ing kidding me?
It takes 12-15 shots, actually. Nice try. Additionally, once it does overheat, they're stuck with their thumbs up their ass while it cools down. Not to mention it's limited range.
Obvious troll is obvious. |
RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
174
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:42:00 -
[86] - Quote
Going by the OP's logic, Forge Guns are OP |
Gigatron Prime
The.Primes
73
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Posted - 2013.06.06 07:59:00 -
[87] - Quote
The SR is perfectly fine as is. If anything though, the recoil on the A-SR needs to be addressed. I find it ridiculous that the ARs have no recoil whatsoever yet the A-SR kicks like a mule. This actually makes the A-SR less viable than its SR counter part.
The recoil is comparable on the SR but that is understandable given its strengths. The recoil balances the SR but I think they just left the recoil on the A-SR which makes the weapon unviable as an assault variant in comparison to even the STD AR. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
12
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Posted - 2013.06.06 08:04:00 -
[88] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=85148&find=unread
If this topic is correct then a SCR with a modded controller is indeed OP.
The good news is the "nerf" the OP suggests would actually be a huge buff for anyone spacing their shots.
Don't care if it gets nerfed or not though really. If it doesn't I'm going to use the hell out of it. |
Gigatron Prime
The.Primes
73
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Posted - 2013.06.06 08:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tharak Meuridiar wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=85148&find=unread
If this topic is correct then a SCR with a modded controller is indeed OP.
The good news is the "nerf" the OP suggests would actually be a huge buff for anyone spacing their shots.
Don't care if it gets nerfed or not though really. If it doesn't I'm going to use the hell out of it.
Nothing but speculation unconfirmed by CCP. SR is fine and leave as is. OP irritates me...
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Icedslayer
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
87
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Posted - 2013.06.06 08:33:00 -
[90] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:ScR is one of the few weapons CCP got right. Anyone complaining about it is going to complain about every gun they either don't use or are killed by. Go play Harvest Moon.
The Scrambler Rifleis one of the few weapons CCP got right... if it's used the way it was intended. It was intended to be a semi-auto weapon with a rate of fire limited by human input. It was not intended to be an automatic weapon with a rate of fire limited by the 705rpm upper limit. This is where the problem lies. Have you even picked up the weapon or used it on combat? if you spam like a TAC AR your going to be a sitting duck (not able to run or switch to another weapon). I Can get down to 27 rounds left in clip before i over heat and that's just sitting there and smashing the trigger as fast as i can go, and can only get of about 13 in normal combat as well as 1 Charged and 3 follow up. The huge difference between the TAC and SR is The TAC you can spray and pray and reload to do it again, the SR you have watch your Heat build-up and know when to stop firing to switch to your sidearm, if not your a sitting duck while you wait for the cool down animation to go through.
As of right now i believe both weapons are balanced and both have there advantages and draw backs.
So No MORE NERFING FOR ANY WEAPON, just need to buff those that are broken LR, MD, PC, Etc |
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