When is ccp going to address this weapon? There are far too many players either using a mouse or a modded controller (ie something with a turbo button) out there that simply flock to this weapon. With suck mods these guns simply own anyone at any range. I run a heavy with a boundless so when an assault suit pops up from around the corner it should not be instant death for me yet it happens often and this dtar is what they always seem to have.

They're taking their sweet time to make minor adjustments that likely still won't stop people from using it like a full auto.

They don't want to do something like making abrupt radical changes that entirely destroy a weapon and then never find the time to fix it... again...

I'm inclined to agree with you. Sadly, when you are designing any sort of multiplayer game, you need to make "How will this be abused?" your first question when designing an item or feature.

Or just lower the rate of fire and magazine capacity. Find a way to screw with the cheesy pos players that use modded controllers with low recoil weapons. That would fix the problem. So would having recoil that would build up until you have a chance to let the gun settle.

Or just figure out some way to have modded controllers explode in peoples hands, amputating their fingers and thus culling one annoying factor from the game. The smiley face isn't because I'm joking. Its because I really do like the image of a modded controller exploding in someone's hands!

I think i am digging the idea of the recoil. a weapon that does 70+ damage per shot probably should have a nice hefty recoil. My HMG has a noticeable recoil despite being a very heavy weapon to start with. Maybe a LIGHT weapon that does high damage should be considered to be packing a lot of gunpowder in the the round and therefore have a decent amount of recoil.

the fallacy of a 'gunpowder' charge in the Gallente Plasma Blaster Assault Rifle.....

there should be stronger recoil, agreed, but i might suggest you think of it as the plasma bolts having a fair bit of push back when energetically accelerated to such a speed.

Wrong weapon we are speaking of the duvol tactical assault rifle.

i just went through the market and made a couple calculations. the max fire rate on the tac rifle is 780 rpm (might not be exact.) that's 13 bullets in a second (and no, mashing r1 13 times a second is not hard for a good fpser. i can cap out the 1000 rpm on the maggie in borderlands 2 if i feel like it.) each of which deal 78 points of damage. 13x78=1014. 1014 damage a second on a light weapon is already pretty ridiculous. with 2 damage mods and full pro, you can get that up to 1348 damage per second. meaning i can flank a supertanked logi or a fully tanked heavy and kill them in less than a second. now, lets take the proto hmg (which is designed to obliterate infantry) and figure out its dps. the rof is 2000 rpm, which equates to 33 shots per second. 33x19.4=604.2. 2 mods and full pro will get that up to 851 damage per second. whoever thought it was a good idea to give an assault rifle nearly double the damage of a MINIGUN should be fired right now. and its not like the recoil makes a difference if you know what you're doing. you wanna know what the strategy used by PXRXO, pink fluffy bounty hunters, imperfects, and everyone else that goes 20-0 with this disgrace to competitive gaming is? get sharpshooter 5, turn aim assist on, and mash the trigger at shotgun range. great job, ccp. your buffing of the tar has resulted in the only weapon more overpowered than dual wield fmg9s (aka what made mw3 garbage).

i just went through the market and made a couple calculations. the max fire rate on the tac rifle is 780 rpm (might not be exact.) that's 13 bullets in a second (and no, mashing r1 13 times a second is not hard for a good fpser. i can cap out the 1000 rpm on the maggie in borderlands 2 if i feel like it.) each of which deal 78 points of damage. 13x78=1014. 1014 damage a second on a light weapon is already pretty ridiculous. with 2 damage mods and full pro, you can get that up to 1348 damage per second. meaning i can flank a supertanked logi or a fully tanked heavy and kill them in less than a second. now, lets take the proto hmg (which is designed to obliterate infantry) and figure out its dps. the rof is 2000 rpm, which equates to 33 shots per second. 33x19.4=604.2. 2 mods and full pro will get that up to 851 damage per second. whoever thought it was a good idea to give an assault rifle nearly double the damage of a MINIGUN should be fired right now. and its not like the recoil makes a difference if you know what you're doing. you wanna know what the strategy used by PXRXO, pink fluffy bounty hunters, imperfects, and everyone else that goes 20-0 with this disgrace to competitive gaming is? get sharpshooter 5, turn aim assist on, and mash the trigger at shotgun range. great job, ccp. your buffing of the tar has resulted in the only weapon more overpowered than dual wield fmg9s (aka what made mw3 garbage).

i just went through the market and made a couple calculations. the max fire rate on the tac rifle is 780 rpm (might not be exact.) that's 13 bullets in a second (and no, mashing r1 13 times a second is not hard for a good fpser. i can cap out the 1000 rpm on the maggie in borderlands 2 if i feel like it.) each of which deal 78 points of damage. 13x78=1014. 1014 damage a second on a light weapon is already pretty ridiculous. with 2 damage mods and full pro, you can get that up to 1348 damage per second. meaning i can flank a supertanked logi or a fully tanked heavy and kill them in less than a second. now, lets take the proto hmg (which is designed to obliterate infantry) and figure out its dps. the rof is 2000 rpm, which equates to 33 shots per second. 33x19.4=604.2. 2 mods and full pro will get that up to 851 damage per second. whoever thought it was a good idea to give an assault rifle nearly double the damage of a MINIGUN should be fired right now. and its not like the recoil makes a difference if you know what you're doing. you wanna know what the strategy used by PXRXO, pink fluffy bounty hunters, imperfects, and everyone else that goes 20-0 with this disgrace to competitive gaming is? get sharpshooter 5, turn aim assist on, and mash the trigger at shotgun range. great job, ccp. your buffing of the tar has resulted in the only weapon more overpowered than dual wield fmg9s (aka what made mw3 garbage).

i just went through the market and made a couple calculations. the max fire rate on the tac rifle is 780 rpm (might not be exact.) that's 13 bullets in a second (and no, mashing r1 13 times a second is not hard for a good fpser. i can cap out the 1000 rpm on the maggie in borderlands 2 if i feel like it.) each of which deal 78 points of damage. 13x78=1014. 1014 damage a second on a light weapon is already pretty ridiculous. with 2 damage mods and full pro, you can get that up to 1348 damage per second. meaning i can flank a supertanked logi or a fully tanked heavy and kill them in less than a second. now, lets take the proto hmg (which is designed to obliterate infantry) and figure out its dps. the rof is 2000 rpm, which equates to 33 shots per second. 33x19.4=604.2. 2 mods and full pro will get that up to 851 damage per second. whoever thought it was a good idea to give an assault rifle nearly double the damage of a MINIGUN should be fired right now. and its not like the recoil makes a difference if you know what you're doing. you wanna know what the strategy used by PXRXO, pink fluffy bounty hunters, imperfects, and everyone else that goes 20-0 with this disgrace to competitive gaming is? get sharpshooter 5, turn aim assist on, and mash the trigger at shotgun range. great job, ccp. your buffing of the tar has resulted in the only weapon more overpowered than dual wield fmg9s (aka what made mw3 garbage).

i am getting realy close to wanting to punch some FMs i the face the weapons are ******* broke the HMG does less damage then any weapon tell me how is that possible and use LOGIC

i am getting realy close to wanting to punch some FMs i the face the weapons are ******* broke the HMG does less damage then any weapon tell me how is that possible and use LOGIC

Hi guys,

We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.

WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.

CCP Wolfman

game balance of course... look at its ROF its double that of an SMG so of course the damage has to be lower the problem with it isnt the damage its the range if it had the range of an AR it would be a pretty significant threat considering that the suits that use it are infantry tanks and the size of its drum

Hi guys,

We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.

WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.

CCP Wolfman

Hi guys,

We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.

WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.

CCP Wolfman

militia smg (a secondary): 22.3 * 1000 = 22,300 dmp = 372dps
assault hmg standard (a primary): 13.8 * 2000 = 27,600 dpm = 460dps

its only an 88 damage difference! considering i need to get weaponry to lvl 5 to use hmgs, and all the crap i gotta put points into to get hmgs, having pretty much the same damage as a militia secondary is insulting. the double fire rate means nothing when you factor in the horible dispersion and lengthy reload. it only means i need to burn through twice as much ammo to do the same job!

WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.

It's funny that so much attention is being paid to impacts on weapon performance now.

Where was this deep concern when Mass Drivers were tossed off a cliff?

You would think that an entire class of slowly firing, difficult to aim weapons that don't actually do any damage would have caught someone's attention by now.

your comparing a standard grade weapon(with longer range and lower damage) to a militia grade sidearm(which has the same damage as a standard grade sidearm) you also have what.... 3x the ammo a drum which means u out dps the smg and your drums last longer which is why u have slower reload...

the reason why i used militia is because you need no skill points in it. there is no militia hmg. you need to be freaking lvl 5 weaponry for that. and 88hp more damager per second, it doesnt make sense.

the smg reloads 3x faster than the hmg so they balance out in dps with regards reload. so yes i have a bigger mag with over heating, but i takes me 8seconds to reload. even at max reload skill, its still 6.8 seconds reload speed.

inaddition the assault does not add much range. its only about 5-10% more range. for a damage drop that big. not worth it.

in the kill feeds all i see are tacs, geks, and glus.

they all need a nerf, starting with the tac. then a nerf on the glu and then gek respectively. they shouldn't be over nerfed.
but they should only be doing the type of damage they do, when someone has damage mods and proficiency sp at max in ARs. they are all way too powerful.

anyone who plays this game will see that. if CCP were to anaylize the kill feeds in every game played between this week and last week alone, they will see that these weapons attain 65-70% of all kills (among small arms). probably more.

if CCP were to post the kills per weapon stats for the past month. among small arms, i guarantee you 67%~77% will be tac, glu, and gek.

something must be done to balance the game out. as a side note, the smallest percentages will be lasers, MD and scrambler pistols.

AHMG has a max range almost on par with an AR but shorter optimum.... regardless why not instead compare the basic HMG to the basic SMG doesnt that then become something like 18dmg@2k RPM to 22.3dmg@1k RPM

Mass Drivers are suffering from a bug that is making them very difficult to use for long range, numbers wise it should be in theory a good weapon. It may take a code deployment to fix.

Mass Drivers are suffering from a bug that is making them very difficult to use for long range, numbers wise it should be in theory a good weapon. It may take a code deployment to fix.

My fellow wolf is correct, the mass drivers are suffering from a couple of technical issues. The first is a problem with how we check splash damage for partially occluded targets. The second is a client/server de-sync issue for the projectile which is exacerbated in poor network conditions.

We have made fixes for both of those issues internally and have been testing them over the last few days. So far weGÇÖve been getting good results. Unfortunately these fixes are on both the client and the server so they canGÇÖt be easily hotfixed in the same way as the TAC updates weGÇÖre putting out. They will be in the next full update.

CCP Wolfman

#1. no. the assault hmg has no where near as much range as an Ar even in chromosome with sharp shooter. trust me ive been play heavy since chromosome. and especially now with the range nerf, all AR has more range than the AHMG.

#2. the dps although substantially different in this case, is still a different situaltion. why? because the HMG in this build is unfortunately a CQC weapon. and with a **** poor turning speed, i cnt hit anything so im my 600dps is just hitting the wall. still it doesnt change the fact that the AHMG is only marginally better than an smg at half the rpm.

Are you factoring the support and area denial functions the weapon had with its old arcing trajectory and larger splash area. Also, don't forget about the nanohive nerf and buffs to shields which neutered the weapon.

the max range of normal ARs is 65-71m(38-42m optimum) while the AHMG was 67-74m(40-45m optimum)

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886

My fellow wolf is correct, the mass drivers are suffering from a couple of technical issues. The first is a problem with how we check splash damage for partially occluded targets. The second is a client/server de-sync issue for the projectile which is exacerbated in poor network conditions.

We have made fixes for both of those issues internally and have been testing them over the last few days. So far weGÇÖve been getting good results. Unfortunately these fixes are on both the client and the server so they canGÇÖt be easily hotfixed in the same way as the TAC updates weGÇÖre putting out. They will be in the next full update.

CCP Wolfman

the smg, does more damage per shot (militia), than even the officer HMG. the officer is 22.5 hp, the militia smg is 23hp. yes, i know the fire rate is havlfed, but why should an hmg need to put out twice as many bullets to do any real damage. the std assault heavy machine gun does 13.8 damage per shot and with the horrible dispersion its laughable.

i feel like i have a rainbow cannon firing glitter instead of a death machnine

Are dust players just dumb? I've notice this trend.. it's is just that the idea of mmo stats and balance confuses them?

21 damage per shot 600rpm is 210 dps

Smg is 24 damage but only 300 rpm so it only does 120dps

The HMG is MUCH better than then SMG don't even I'm so confused by the forums nowadays : (

really? then that must be in theory because in practice the the reg. assault rifle has a better range than the AHMG. why? the effective range on the AHMG is shorter than an AR and the dispersion is much higher that an AR, in addition the damage per shot is much lower so overall, its effective range is on slightly better than a reg. HMG

I think he's mad because I won a gun fight with him using a militia SMG by aiming for his head while behind cover or outrunning his rate of turn.

well how about this get into a ring with me in rl and see how that works for you

However this update with all the positives comes with one negative, recall I said 45% of the 75% of the 514 community spec into AR's just so they can use the TAC's. After this update (or after the damage Nerf of the TAC's update) about 45 or that 75% who spec into AR's will request a skill respec when this is all said and done with.

I would like to say for the record that the Gek-38 AR, Duvolle AR (Not the Tactical one) and just the regular AR (counting Dren and Toxin) are automatics with 60 round mags. Honestly I find them more balanced than the Tactical AR's as well as saying that I find many of the AR's UU (in other-words Underused). People need to understand that the AR's are the most used weapon in any first person shooter. It is true that about 75% of the 514 community spec into AR's, but of that 75%, 45% did because the TAC's were the only liable option to keep up with the meta-game (level 5 AR operations at at least a level 1 AR proficiency).

D legendary you even heard me say I rather be killed by a Gek-38 or just a plain Duvolle before haven't you? Recall in beta, AR's were a good option to use but wasn't always the best option versus now where the TAC's are the solution to everything. Lowering the clip size to 18 bullets would make the "spray and pray" players think twice before shooting now. an increase in dispersion of hip-firing bullets will make to where the TAC's are not the go to weapon for CQC situations. Finally a lower rate of fire from the 789 rpm to hopefully 450 rpm will kill all "spray and pray" tactics along with trigger happy users and killing any use of the modded controller users from trying to make it an automatic weapon.

However this update with all the positives comes with one negative, recall I said 45% of the 75% of the 514 community spec into AR's just so they can use the TAC's. After this update (or after the damage Nerf of the TAC's update) about 45 or that 75% who spec into AR's will request a skill respec when this is all said and done with.

I think he's mad because I won a gun fight with him using a militia SMG by aiming for his head while behind cover or outrunning his rate of turn.

I would like to say for the record that the Gek-38 AR, Duvolle AR (Not the Tactical one) and just the regular AR (counting Dren and Toxin) are automatics with 60 round mags. Honestly I find them more balanced than the Tactical AR's as well as saying that I find many of the AR's UU (in other-words Underused). People need to understand that the AR's are the most used weapon in any first person shooter. It is true that about 75% of the 514 community spec into AR's, but of that 75%, 45% did because the TAC's were the only liable option to keep up with the meta-game (level 5 AR operations at at least a level 1 AR proficiency).

D legendary you even heard me say I rather be killed by a Gek-38 or just a plain Duvolle before haven't you? Recall in beta, AR's were a good option to use but wasn't always the best option versus now where the TAC's are the solution to everything. Lowering the clip size to 18 bullets would make the "spray and pray" players think twice before shooting now. an increase in dispersion of hip-firing bullets will make to where the TAC's are not the go to weapon for CQC situations. Finally a lower rate of fire from the 789 rpm to hopefully 450 rpm will kill all "spray and pray" tactics along with trigger happy users and killing any use of the modded controller users from trying to make it an automatic weapon.

However this update with all the positives comes with one negative, recall I said 45% of the 75% of the 514 community spec into AR's just so they can use the TAC's. After this update (or after the damage Nerf of the TAC's update) about 45 or that 75% who spec into AR's will request a skill respec when this is all said and done with.

#1. all those numbers are completely off. the smg does 23hp, or 383.33 dps. the assault heavy machine gun does 460dps. a difference of little over 76dps. for all the points and SP you need to skill into HMGs it doesnt sem fair that an smg can basically out gun a heavy machine gun (because you can get more head shots with an smg that dps is virtually doubled. where as with an hmg headshots are only possible against other heavies.)

#2. when you factor in the high dispersion and horrible turn speed of heavies (because if you dnt know you gotta be a heavy to use an hmg) most of you dps is going into the wall. so even the regular hmg at 600dps doesnt mean sqaut with dispersion and turn speed like that.

#3 @ the CP. dude, im not mad at that i mad when caldari scouts with more EHP that a heavy, standing directly in front of me in my stream of bullets with a militia smg killing my heavy. dnt gimme that bs. most of you guys just bunny hop and shield tank. no one should be able to stand directly in front of a heavy machine gun and out gun him with an smg. (spraying and praying with the cross hairs at the head aint skills bro et real)

Hi guys,

We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.

WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.

CCP Wolfman

... Caldari Scouts?

When is ccp going to address this weapon? There are far too many players either using a mouse or a modded controller (ie something with a turbo button) out there that simply flock to this weapon. With suck mods these guns simply own anyone at any range. I run a heavy with a boundless so when an assault suit pops up from around the corner it should not be instant death for me yet it happens often and this dtar is what they always seem to have.

in the kill feeds all i see are tacs, geks, and glus.

they all need a nerf, starting with the tac. then a nerf on the glu and then gek respectively. they shouldn't be over nerfed.
but they should only be doing the type of damage they do, when someone has damage mods and proficiency sp at max in ARs. they are all way too powerful.

i hope you are also working on the GLU, and GEK, because those are just as dangerous.

... Caldari Scouts?

I think the problem here is that you think 'most' of the people shooting you with these weapons don't already have them maxed?

I would guess that more people have these maxed than not. So working as intended for non Tac AR's I'm afraid dude.

i am getting realy close to wanting to punch some FMs i the face the weapons are ******* broke the HMG does less damage then any weapon tell me how is that possible and use LOGIC

Mass Drivers are suffering from a bug that is making them very difficult to use for long range, numbers wise it should be in theory a good weapon. It may take a code deployment to fix.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a little baffled at what's happened with the Mass Driver. The reason for the splash and blast range nerf was that in playtests we found the MD to be so effective that at one point almost half the people in the office were using it in battles. Clearly, that's not been the case with Uprising and after getting the engineers to go elbow deep into the code it appears there may be a few reasons beyond dry numbers that are contributing to the MDs underwhelming performance.

One, there appears to be a de-sync between client and server so that (more often than it should) the server and client think the projectile exploded in different places. They're not far off, but enough so that shots you *think* are spot on are off the mark enough to do only minor splash damage. And two, I'm told splash occlusion is getting blocked by a single player character more than it should, contributing to the "randomness" of the damage dealt and the sometimes smudgy feeling of the weapon.

I'm hesitant to rebalance the weapon until we get these issues looked at (which is happening right now).

Hi guys,

The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.

CCP Wolfman

Hi guys,

We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.

WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.

CCP Wolfman

Hi guys,

We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.

WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.

CCP Wolfman

My fellow wolf is correct, the mass drivers are suffering from a couple of technical issues. The first is a problem with how we check splash damage for partially occluded targets. The second is a client/server de-sync issue for the projectile which is exacerbated in poor network conditions.

We have made fixes for both of those issues internally and have been testing them over the last few days. So far weGÇÖve been getting good results. Unfortunately these fixes are on both the client and the server so they canGÇÖt be easily hotfixed in the same way as the TAC updates weGÇÖre putting out. They will be in the next full update.

CCP Wolfman

There's a third bug, native to all explosives, which causes the rounds to sometimes vanish without detonation. This also happens with all types of grenade and has been confirmed under Uprising as recently as 6/4/2013

Cheers,
Cross

I've been killed more by HMG's than I have any other weapon in the game.

My fellow wolf is correct, the mass drivers are suffering from a couple of technical issues. The first is a problem with how we check splash damage for partially occluded targets. The second is a client/server de-sync issue for the projectile which is exacerbated in poor network conditions.

We have made fixes for both of those issues internally and have been testing them over the last few days. So far weGÇÖve been getting good results. Unfortunately these fixes are on both the client and the server so they canGÇÖt be easily hotfixed in the same way as the TAC updates weGÇÖre putting out. They will be in the next full update.

CCP Wolfman

the std assault heavy machine gun does 13.8 damage per shot and with the horrible dispersion its laughable.

Bro. From one heavy to another: don't use the assault hmg. The Damage is laughable and in no way makes up for the extended range. You'll probably be better off using the standard type or the burst.

I did lawl at the rainbow cannon though.

The HMG is insanely powerful, are you people on crack? I've been killed more by HMG's than I have any other weapon in the game.

I thought the patch was coming out today.

Hi guys,

We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.

WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.

CCP Wolfman

i hope you are also working on the GLU, and GEK, because those are just as dangerous.

Wow, Assault Rifle is the most used weapon in a First Person Shooter, I'm totally shocked.

its not that people are using ars but that the ars are/were pretty much full auto sniper rifles

Hi guys,

We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.

WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.

CCP Wolfman