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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
72
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:Jaron Pollard wrote: Awoxing is not an exploit, and it never has been in all the years of EVE's and New Eden's existence.
Tell me does every spy in new eden have the ability to at anytime to flip sov from the alliance without the alliance knowing who the spy is from the action, and unless they find out who the spy is can never engage the enemy in a fight?
Yes. In fact, we just used an alt to take down a wh corp in eve by getting him recruited and let into the shield in order to let us in and steal 10bil worth of blueprints. And not one round was fired that day. Also, that alt is still in their corp, and they are none the wiser. |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers EoN.
246
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
DJINN Rampage wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:DJINN Rampage wrote:to me this sounds like a whole bunch of EoN bitches mad because cronos is stomping them the **** out of PC. HTFU bitches. maybe if you stayed off the forums a bit and on the game more? youd actually hold more land. what's poppin? are your slaves starving? well too ******* bad. this is NEW EDEN not call of duty. where shoooting is only a miniscule percentage of this game. when i first started this game many moons ago, a wise man once told me, "only 10% of this game is won on the battlefield, the other 90% is played through the comms and deceit." if you think CCP's going to listen to this garbage? may i point you to one very amusing link. --> LAUGHING IN YOUR FACEand what did CCP do about it?... nothing. so you think they are REALLY going to listen to this trash? think again dude. stop QQing and HTFU, thought you were better than this deluxe. only the strong survive, and brain wins over brawn anyday. now leave my jenzi alone before i smack the taste out your mouth. she hasnt hurt anybody. but i will make her nova knife you right up the butt ;) and to furthermore dilute your argument, ironwolf saber isnt even in betamax. and im sure that ALL of CPM and everyone not in EoN in general finds this **** funny as ****. because i have told EVERYBODY and they all laugh their asses off at how stupid EoN truly is. you mad because LOI took all of your good people bro? you guys have been getting the short end of the stick all week huh? its ok, maybe if you ask nicely jenza will bake you some nice cookies, maybe even with no cyanide! :P Lol this is all I hear in this incoherant rant.... http://youtu.be/kHmvkRoEowcTo bad you guys have been getting stomped in PC battles. lol i dont know where your getting your info from, at least unlinke you biitches we dont use ringers, and everyone on our side reads "BETAMAX" and BTW EoN whos already lost countless districts, last time i checked? we havent lost any.
countless? try 1 which will be rectified shortly. Betamax can enjoy themselved deep in the middle of their blue doughnut. I look forward to pillaging your planets after where done clearing orion out of our systems. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
563
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:25:00 -
[63] - Quote
Groza Tragediya wrote: You know the whole "team" aspect of the game? That's another player picking up the slack you leave behind, that's "hand holding"
Not really. That's more teamwork than anything else, hardly hand holding. Hand holding is the game giving things to players who are less able, e.g. allowing a ten man corp to do PC.
x-KOR-x wrote:Let me remind you that she is a CPM member:
Don't see how that's relevant. Just because she passes on ideas from the community to CCP (i.e. "a voice for the community") means she can't play the game? Congrats on your logic.
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DJINN Rampage
BetaMax. CRONOS.
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:25:00 -
[64] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:DJINN Rampage wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:DJINN Rampage wrote:to me this sounds like a whole bunch of EoN bitches mad because cronos is stomping them the **** out of PC. HTFU bitches. maybe if you stayed off the forums a bit and on the game more? youd actually hold more land. what's poppin? are your slaves starving? well too ******* bad. this is NEW EDEN not call of duty. where shoooting is only a miniscule percentage of this game. when i first started this game many moons ago, a wise man once told me, "only 10% of this game is won on the battlefield, the other 90% is played through the comms and deceit." if you think CCP's going to listen to this garbage? may i point you to one very amusing link. --> LAUGHING IN YOUR FACEand what did CCP do about it?... nothing. so you think they are REALLY going to listen to this trash? think again dude. stop QQing and HTFU, thought you were better than this deluxe. only the strong survive, and brain wins over brawn anyday. now leave my jenzi alone before i smack the taste out your mouth. she hasnt hurt anybody. but i will make her nova knife you right up the butt ;) and to furthermore dilute your argument, ironwolf saber isnt even in betamax. and im sure that ALL of CPM and everyone not in EoN in general finds this **** funny as ****. because i have told EVERYBODY and they all laugh their asses off at how stupid EoN truly is. you mad because LOI took all of your good people bro? you guys have been getting the short end of the stick all week huh? its ok, maybe if you ask nicely jenza will bake you some nice cookies, maybe even with no cyanide! :P Lol this is all I hear in this incoherant rant.... http://youtu.be/kHmvkRoEowcTo bad you guys have been getting stomped in PC battles. lol i dont know where your getting your info from, at least unlinke you biitches we dont use ringers, and everyone on our side reads "BETAMAX" and BTW EoN whos already lost countless districts, last time i checked? we havent lost any. countless? try 1 which will be rectified shortly. Betamax can enjoy themselved deep in the middle of their blue doughnut. I look forward to pillaging your planets after where done clearing orion out of our systems.
and ill enjoy more of your salty EoN tears as we cloak and dagger our way across molden heath ;)
SPAING Prof. 5 FTW |
jenza aranda
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1376
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:26:00 -
[65] - Quote
deluxe, dude... what happened to you... you never used to be into this whole shittalking thing? |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
57
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
if it was some kind of actual exploit, like if they told their corps to stockpile hacked AV grenades, that'd be completely unacceptable.
but anyone who knows anything about eve would know AWOXing was possible the instant friendly fire was enabled. this wasn't secret info at all. |
DJINN Rampage
BetaMax. CRONOS.
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote:deluxe, dude... what happened to you... you never used to be into this whole shittalking thing?
lol once your in EoN? it's all down hill from there. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1569
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:36:00 -
[68] - Quote
I anti-sign. Jenza shouldn't be on the CPM, but this is burying legitimate complaints. Ironwolf is excellent as long as he sticks to the mission. |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers EoN.
247
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
This isn't about **** talking. I was just correcting rampage on his way off information. This post is about keeping PC relevant. As a CPM I expected publicly you would be lobbying CCP towards a fix to the obviously broken mechanic. Instead you and your alliance has been the leaders in it's abuse.
If you read my initial post you will see their is none of that, only a plea for the CPM to do their job and light a fire under CCP to fix this issue. Otherwise PC is going to be dead on arrival, especially if we go by Iron Wolf's estimate of a fix in 3 months!
Either do your job as a CPM and publicly take a stance against the mechanic which undermines all of PC, or step down and let someone who is concerned about the well being of the game takes over. New Eden citizens love to point out how much they love the meta-game, however to claim this to be some ingenious EvE level super spy stuff is fooling yourself. It's a broken mechanic that is being abused and then justified by say "Well it is New Eden".
I expected more from you Jenza. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1569
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:41:00 -
[70] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:This isn't about **** talking. I was just correcting rampage on his way off information. This post is about keeping PC relevant. As a CPM I expected publicly you would be lobbying CCP towards a fix to the obviously broken mechanic. Instead you and your alliance has been the leaders in it's abuse.
If you read my initial post you will see their is none of that, only a plea for the CPM to do their job and light a fire under CCP to fix this issue. Otherwise PC is going to be dead on arrival, especially if we go by Iron Wolf's estimate of a fix in 3 months!
Either do your job as a CPM and publicly take a stance against the mechanic which undermines all of PC, or step down and let someone who is concerned about the well being of the game takes over. New Eden citizens love to point out how much they love the meta-game, however to claim this to be some ingenious EvE level super spy stuff is fooling yourself. It's a broken mechanic that is being abused and then justified by say "Well it is New Eden".
I expected more from you Jenza.
I didn't. Don't disappoint yourself by asking her to step down. She is not going anywhere unless fired or we actually have a say in who is seated. |
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Eltra Ardell
Goonfeet
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:45:00 -
[71] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:Jaron Pollard wrote: Awoxing is not an exploit, and it never has been in all the years of EVE's and New Eden's existence.
Tell me does every spy in new eden have the ability to at anytime to flip sov from the alliance without the alliance knowing who the spy is from the action, and unless they find out who the spy is can never engage the enemy in a fight? Does every EVE alliance provide free entry into their holding corporation when any chucklefuck applies?
The answer is no. DUST players haven't figured that out yet. |
DJINN Rampage
BetaMax. CRONOS.
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:45:00 -
[72] - Quote
lmfao. i get that your mad for not being the talk of PC, and that you hold little to no districts, but to attack someones demeanor and try to get them removed from a job they do for free and out of the goodness of their heart, your ****** up bro.
Ive seen how busy she gets OVER A VIDEO GAME.. and she does it because she loves the game. and the endless ******* rambles she has to take from you losers? **** you guys man. all of EoN. you have no idea how many hours she has to put in running a corp and doing all this **** for CPM. and on top of that she has to hear every ******* idiotic complaint you guys can think of? **** off and enjoy the game. stop being a *****. deluxe, your inflamed vagina is showing. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
564
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:47:00 -
[73] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:obviously broken mechanic.
Working as intended (almost). Be more vigilant in who you recruit, only play with those you trust. Two very, VERY simple and elegant solutions which eliminate any chance of a spai. |
DJINN Rampage
BetaMax. CRONOS.
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:47:00 -
[74] - Quote
Eltra Ardell wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:Jaron Pollard wrote: Awoxing is not an exploit, and it never has been in all the years of EVE's and New Eden's existence.
Tell me does every spy in new eden have the ability to at anytime to flip sov from the alliance without the alliance knowing who the spy is from the action, and unless they find out who the spy is can never engage the enemy in a fight? Does every EVE alliance provide free entry into their holding corporation when any chucklefuck applies? The answer is no. DUST players haven't figured that out yet.
isnt your CEO in CPM too? the imperfects? basically the most corrupt motherfuckers in this game. period. you guys should really be the ones talking about standards. |
BOZ MR
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
141
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:48:00 -
[75] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:Both of these CPM members have now on the record voiced support for the tactic known as AWOXing. This tactic while it can be considered meta-game is obviously a major problem for planetary conquest due to a severe lack of corporation controls and is far to easy to pull off. The job of CPM is to be the advocate for the community so that dust can thrive, however it seems that that duty has been set aside and replaced with their duty to Betamax (and their use of AWOXing) and the defense of a tactic that will turn the greatest part of dust into a side show.
When CPM0 was announced many members of the community voiced their concerns of having 2 members of CPM from the same corporation and now it seems that those concerns have been proven valid. Any CPM members who have the community as their top priority would quickly condemn this tactic, and would use their influence to push CCP to give corporation leadership stronger controls over their PC battle roster. I don't care if they are in the same corp or not, they freakin don't do their job. A lot of tankers are talking to Kain Spero and at least he understands and collect opinions. These two just sit on their @sses and troll forums. |
DJINN Rampage
BetaMax. CRONOS.
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:51:00 -
[76] - Quote
BOZ MR wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:Both of these CPM members have now on the record voiced support for the tactic known as AWOXing. This tactic while it can be considered meta-game is obviously a major problem for planetary conquest due to a severe lack of corporation controls and is far to easy to pull off. The job of CPM is to be the advocate for the community so that dust can thrive, however it seems that that duty has been set aside and replaced with their duty to Betamax (and their use of AWOXing) and the defense of a tactic that will turn the greatest part of dust into a side show.
When CPM0 was announced many members of the community voiced their concerns of having 2 members of CPM from the same corporation and now it seems that those concerns have been proven valid. Any CPM members who have the community as their top priority would quickly condemn this tactic, and would use their influence to push CCP to give corporation leadership stronger controls over their PC battle roster. I don't care if they are in the same corp or not, they freakin don't do their job. A lot of tankers for example are talking to Kain Spero and at least he understands and collect opinions. These two just sit on their @sses and troll forums.
once again, someone who doesn't know who they're talking about. |
Banned From Forums
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:53:00 -
[77] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:Both of these CPM members have now on the record voiced support for the tactic known as AWOXing. This tactic while it can be considered meta-game is obviously a major problem for planetary conquest due to a severe lack of corporation controls and is far to easy to pull off. The job of CPM is to be the advocate for the community so that dust can thrive, however it seems that that duty has been set aside and replaced with their duty to Betamax (and their use of AWOXing) and the defense of a tactic that will turn the greatest part of dust into a side show.
When CPM0 was announced many members of the community voiced their concerns of having 2 members of CPM from the same corporation and now it seems that those concerns have been proven valid. Any CPM members who have the community as their top priority would quickly condemn this tactic, and would use their influence to push CCP to give corporation leadership stronger controls over their PC battle roster. +1 |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1569
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:53:00 -
[78] - Quote
DJINN Rampage wrote:lmfao. i get that your mad for not being the talk of PC, and that you hold little to no districts, but to attack someones demeanor and try to get them removed from a job they do for free and out of the goodness of their heart, your ****** up bro.
Ive seen how busy she gets OVER A VIDEO GAME.. and she does it because she loves the game. and the endless ******* rambles she has to take from you losers? **** you guys man. all of EoN. you have no idea how many hours she has to put in running a corp and doing all this **** for CPM. and on top of that she has to hear every ******* idiotic complaint you guys can think of? **** off and enjoy the game. stop being a *****. deluxe, your inflamed vagina is showing.
I don't remember lighting the white knight beacon. Is Jenza really that emotionally frail? (I actually know the answer, wondering if you do). |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
527
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:53:00 -
[79] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:Both of these CPM members have now on the record voiced support for the tactic known as AWOXing. This tactic while it can be considered meta-game is obviously a major problem for planetary conquest due to a severe lack of corporation controls and is far to easy to pull off. The job of CPM is to be the advocate for the community so that dust can thrive, however it seems that that duty has been set aside and replaced with their duty to Betamax (and their use of AWOXing) and the defense of a tactic that will turn the greatest part of dust into a side show.
When CPM0 was announced many members of the community voiced their concerns of having 2 members of CPM from the same corporation and now it seems that those concerns have been proven valid. Any CPM members who have the community as their top priority would quickly condemn this tactic, and would use their influence to push CCP to give corporation leadership stronger controls over their PC battle roster. The tactic is valid. The use of it in this circumstance was absolutely legit.
Your whining sickens me. |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers EoN.
248
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:53:00 -
[80] - Quote
DJINN Rampage wrote:
isnt your CEO in CPM too? the imperfects? basically the most corrupt motherfuckers in this game. period. you guys should really be the ones talking about standards.
Did you really just imply that I have ANY relations to the imperfects? You really have no clue what your talking about do you.
You hold a lot of districs ONLY because you where the first ones to claim them on PC launch day. Wait till you actually have to start defending them. |
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Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1569
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:55:00 -
[81] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:Both of these CPM members have now on the record voiced support for the tactic known as AWOXing. This tactic while it can be considered meta-game is obviously a major problem for planetary conquest due to a severe lack of corporation controls and is far to easy to pull off. The job of CPM is to be the advocate for the community so that dust can thrive, however it seems that that duty has been set aside and replaced with their duty to Betamax (and their use of AWOXing) and the defense of a tactic that will turn the greatest part of dust into a side show.
When CPM0 was announced many members of the community voiced their concerns of having 2 members of CPM from the same corporation and now it seems that those concerns have been proven valid. Any CPM members who have the community as their top priority would quickly condemn this tactic, and would use their influence to push CCP to give corporation leadership stronger controls over their PC battle roster. The tactic is valid. The use of it in this circumstance was absolutely legit. Your whining sickens me.
The tactic is valid. The mechanics are broken. The efficacy to effort ratio is obscene. So much so that it makes the "gun game" unimportant as soon as it's on the table en-masse. I don't hate the warriors for their red line lav repping, but that doesn't make me think they weren't tools for continuing to do it after the issue hit the limelight. |
Natu Nobilis
BetaMax Beta CRONOS.
291
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:56:00 -
[82] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:Any CPM members who have the community as their top priority would quickly APPROVE this tactic, and would use their influence to push CCP to give corporation leadership stronger controls over their PC battle roster.
Fixed for you. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1569
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:57:00 -
[83] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:DJINN Rampage wrote:
isnt your CEO in CPM too? the imperfects? basically the most corrupt motherfuckers in this game. period. you guys should really be the ones talking about standards.
Did you really just imply that I have ANY relations to the imperfects? You really have no clue what your talking about do you. You hold a lot of districs ONLY because you where the first ones to claim them on PC launch day. Wait till you actually have to start defending them.
Wait, so last night meant NOTHING to you! ='( |
DJINN Rampage
BetaMax. CRONOS.
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:57:00 -
[84] - Quote
Deluxe Edition wrote:DJINN Rampage wrote:
isnt your CEO in CPM too? the imperfects? basically the most corrupt motherfuckers in this game. period. you guys should really be the ones talking about standards.
Did you really just imply that I have ANY relations to the imperfects? You really have no clue what your talking about do you. You hold a lot of districs ONLY because you where the first ones to claim them on PC launch day. Wait till you actually have to start defending them.
speaking as someone who fought in 6 of the 9 CB's we had yesterday, both things you said in this post are invalid. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1569
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:58:00 -
[85] - Quote
Natu Nobilis wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:Any CPM members who have the community as their top priority would quickly APPROVE this tactic, and would use their influence to push CCP to give corporation leadership stronger controls over their PC battle roster. Fixed for you.
Approving the tactic sure. Not admitting how broken the mechanics are to fight it is selfish and short-sighted. I wonder what tune will be played when turnaround is considered fair play? |
DJINN Rampage
BetaMax. CRONOS.
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 15:59:00 -
[86] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:DJINN Rampage wrote:lmfao. i get that your mad for not being the talk of PC, and that you hold little to no districts, but to attack someones demeanor and try to get them removed from a job they do for free and out of the goodness of their heart, your ****** up bro.
Ive seen how busy she gets OVER A VIDEO GAME.. and she does it because she loves the game. and the endless ******* rambles she has to take from you losers? **** you guys man. all of EoN. you have no idea how many hours she has to put in running a corp and doing all this **** for CPM. and on top of that she has to hear every ******* idiotic complaint you guys can think of? **** off and enjoy the game. stop being a *****. deluxe, your inflamed vagina is showing. I don't remember lighting the white knight beacon. Is Jenza really that emotionally frail? (I actually know the answer, wondering if you do).
she doesnt need me to defend her, i volunteer as i would for any corp member of any corp that im in ;)
she lifts bro, do you? |
SoTa of PoP
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
317
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 16:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
jenza aranda wrote: We all have the same tools at our disposal, its up to us on how to use it.
I just want to get this straight.
Regardless at how ABSURDLY easy it is to ruin PC battles for a corp - you're going to call that a tool and HTFU over it's use?
You mean after sitting in this dirt for **** game for a year testing it, always hoping for a better future... after suffering through a TERRIBLE expansion filled with the most ridiculous nerfs and changes - I now have to worry that any 2-bit idiot will jump onto his alt right in time to hijack PC and ruin it for everyone? All in the name of some other ******* games meta?
Wow and holyshit. So everytime a terrible mechanic CCP is too dumb to test before releasing is shown it's going to turn into a 'meta' tool.
That's fuckin' great.
I support sabotage - but not when it's this easy to do. |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers EoN.
250
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 16:00:00 -
[88] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:
Wait, so last night meant NOTHING to you! ='(
That was supposed to be between us, but now you ruined it! |
11Up3Down
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 16:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
I don't care for Jenza or IWS personally, however their support for AWOXing doesn't mean anything, they are players as well as CPM and can still have a players decision.
If you have a concern that by them being a player they will support only their interests, then you are going to have to prove this somehow. Get them saying they are only support their agenda or whatever. Secondly, they aren't the only CPM members and you don't need the whole CPM to support an idea. It only takes one to bring it up.
So while I don't care for either of those CPMs and wouldn't support some sort of impeachment of them either. They are players like the rest of us and they have the right to voice their opinion like everyone else.
As for the rest of what OP stated: hogwash. AWOXing will not have any permanent effect on PC. Maybe corps tighten up security, but thats about it.. This type of gameplay is allowed in EvE and it should be allowed in Dust. There are options other than burning CPM members at the stake because they don't hold your opinion and there are other options and ways to give Corp more control over how members are chosen for PC and ways to prevent PC from being hijacked.
I fully support mercs being able to screw merc however. I fully support getting in a corp and perhaps taken down a merc in that corp or even sabotaging the efforts of the corp to win the match. This is an accepted form of gameplay in CCP games and I am against any measure to prevent, subdue, or remove the mechanics that allow it. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
527
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 16:07:00 -
[90] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Deluxe Edition wrote:Both of these CPM members have now on the record voiced support for the tactic known as AWOXing. This tactic while it can be considered meta-game is obviously a major problem for planetary conquest due to a severe lack of corporation controls and is far to easy to pull off. The job of CPM is to be the advocate for the community so that dust can thrive, however it seems that that duty has been set aside and replaced with their duty to Betamax (and their use of AWOXing) and the defense of a tactic that will turn the greatest part of dust into a side show.
When CPM0 was announced many members of the community voiced their concerns of having 2 members of CPM from the same corporation and now it seems that those concerns have been proven valid. Any CPM members who have the community as their top priority would quickly condemn this tactic, and would use their influence to push CCP to give corporation leadership stronger controls over their PC battle roster. The tactic is valid. The use of it in this circumstance was absolutely legit. Your whining sickens me. The tactic is valid. The mechanics are broken. The efficacy to effort ratio is obscene. So much so that it makes the "gun game" unimportant as soon as it's on the table en-masse. I don't hate the warriors for their red line lav repping, but that doesn't make me think they weren't tools for continuing to do it after the issue hit the limelight. To hand-holdy for me. And you analogy breaks so quickly it's laughable.
This is a mechanic on the social side of the game. It manifests as a consequence of decisions you make regarding trust. Do you really want DUST to be a game that babysits you in a way that protects you from bad decisions concerning people? I sure as hell don't. I'm sure what we both want is a mechanic to kick players, which CCP has already spoken to and last i heard there was a role on the way to accommodate this.
To compare it with a broken warpoint mechanic is ridiculous and possibly disingenuous. It's like comparing cultural evolution to rocks falling. Flat out ridiculous. |
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