I don't think the bonus is that op. besides, you can't even fit 5 CSE and have a decent fit. You gimp the rest of your suit load out just for straight hp stacking. That's 55 pg before you even put on a weapon, let alone armor plates.

Proto suits, with all level 5 skills should be a terror. You assume the best possible scenario.

I don't even run cal logi since I felt the bonus was wasted. You HAVE to fit a SE to even get the bonus.

I def think their slot layout is op. that could use a tweak, but their bonus is fine..

No suit needs an inherent dmg bonus. Rate of fire, cool down, reload etc are all going to give you more dps. But percent damage is a bad way to balance. Aka tac ar issues now.

S recovery:15/s----------------------12/s
EHP:---------412.5--------------------337.5(75 HP difference) (This was with passives included)

So what is a logistics suit? From it's stats, it's a medium suit that's traded in some of it's base speed, health, and stamina for a higher slot count, while also switching it's side arm for equipment so that it can support it's team instead of slaying(Amarr logi excluded).

So is losing the side arm worth the extra equipment? First, let me ask you something. What side arm do most laser users use? A SMG? Bingo. Why? Because their laser is weak in CQC and does less damage to armor, while the SMG is the opposite of that. So what does a siderm do? It allows the player to overcome the inherent weakness of their main weapon, and gives them an emergency weapon incase they run out of ammo. Logis on the other hand exchange that combat adaptability in order to support their teamates. A side arm deals damage to the enemies, a repair tool heals your teammates. A side arm can kill your enemies, a nanite injector can revive your teammates. A siderm gives you more ammo, a nano-hive gives your whole team more ammo.

All in all I'd say the two are pretty well balanced.

Now then, shield extenders... A logi can fit 5 while an assault can fit 4, that's 363 and 290.4 respectively, this is including the new +10% shield bonus from the skill.
Caldari Assault: 412.5 + 290.4 =702.9 EHP
Caldari Logistics:373.5 + 363 = 700.5 EHP

Nothing wrong so far, in fact the logi suit is losing a little since it's slower.

Except... that Caldari logi bonus... 5% + to shield extenders per level, with 5 extenders that leads to 445.5 HP from extenders alone. That's more than assault suits entire base EHP. (1 extender is worth 89.1, X that by 5) (10% shield bonus + 25% Caldari logi bonus = 35% according to Cat Merc)

So 373.5 + 445.5 = 819 EHP
819(L) - 702.9(A) = 116.1 HP difference.

This went four pages without your math getting fixed? Not sure which country's education system is responsible. Your math makes the Caldari logi look stronger.

"So 373.5 + 445.5 = 819 EHP"

Where does that number come from? It's meant to be logistics base hp with passives, right? You carried the number wrong. You have the right one at the top too:

"-337.5"

You buffed their EHP by 37hp or so with a math error.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=76141&find=unread

This guys a reject who continually makes incorrect assertions.

Also, you said the logi had three lows in another post - that's incorrect. Proto Cal Logistics if 5H 4L 3E (sum of 12), this matches Minmatar 4H 4L 4E (12) and Gallente 3H 5L 4E (12).

Well that's my point exactly. They're in the combat supporting the assaults but they aren't engaging in head-to-head combat with others that they would need as much as assaults. I imagine most players in a firefight will shoot the guy shooting them, not the one providing ammo and a bit of reps. So assaults should have a bit more armor/shields. I'm not saying give them no mod slots, but they should be a little under the assaults.

Whoever the hell bumped this, thank you. Bookmarking for reading and digestion.

Oddly this doesn't get a post more and the other thread grows by another 4 pages...

H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11 PG

Total = 270 CPU/ 55 PG

L: Complex Shield Regulator 35 CPU/ 3 PG
L: Complex Kinetic mod 27 CPU/ 15 PG
L:Basic Armor Repairer 20 CPU / 1 PG
L: Basic CPU Upgrade = 16% more CPU

Total = 83 CPU / 19 CPU

LW: Balac: 90 CPU 13 PG
G: Core Locus grenade 48 CPU / 6 PG
Or Allotek Flux 52 CPU / 6 PG

Total: 138 or 142 CPU / 19 PG

E: Ishkone Gauged Nano Hive: 59 CPU / 11PG
E: Blank
E: Blank

Total: 59 CPU /11 PG

CPU Available: 507 / PG available: 101.4

Total CPU Used: 550 or 554 CPU / PG used: 104

But that doesn't fit right? Except 507 x 1.16 = 588.12

Still not enough PG right? Assault Rifle Fitting skill(whatever it's called 13 x .25 = 3.25
104 - 3.25 = 100.75

So all this just barely fit, but is it really that much better than what can be done with a Caldari Assault Suit?

Edit:
Without CL bonus:
Caldari Assault: 412.5 + 290.4 =702.9 EHP
Caldari Logistics:337.5 + 363 = 700.5 EHP

With CL Bonus: 337.5 + 445.5 = 783 EHP
783(L) - 702.9(A) = 80.1 HP difference.

My god, this is game breaking

Edit: Now if you used a complex CPU Upgrade, and replaced the Basic Armor repairer with a PG Upgrade, then you would be able to fill your other equipment slots, but I want all assault users to realize that this is far more expensive than your suit would ever get.

Like I've said before, QQers run when hit with numbers and facts.

I hope that if CCP ever makes any changes to all logis, that they will keep this thread in mind and not make any changes that are too drastic, the differences between the logi and assault suits aren't that big, let alone big enough to justify huge over the top nerfs like CCP tends to do.

Sadly this thread is mostly filled with self bumps, so I doubt it would be that useful
Aside from getting some QQers to pipe down

I would like to drop this off here though so that people can see some of it's fitting possibilities.



Possible changes: If you were to get rid of even one low slot then this fit could still be used as a pseudo assault suit, but it would lose access to two equipment slots. If you change it's bonus then it no longer has 80.1 more HP. Just like Pheonix said in this thread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75779&find=unread

You could even switch the low slot with an equipment slot, it wouldn't be able to take advantage of it without making some sacrifices.

Thanks for the thread and all the participants in the discussion, QQers excluded. As stated many times before, my personal opinion is that the OP part of the CaLogi suit is the racial bonus. I do like the idea of giving a boost to Assault suits to get people to move back that way instead of using a Logi for an assault role, and giving a de-buff (to 2%/lvl) to the CaLogi suit.

Ive been reading a lot of the threads on OP Logi suits and must say this thread has had the most well informed posters and have stuck to the point. To that end I would like to add that I have been a Logi from the closed beta, and other forums suggesting all Logis need a nerf or only allowing us to have a side arm are bogus. Just because the CaLogi is current bully beating people down on the battle field doesnt mean all Logis should be hit with the same nerf bat.

Thanks again for this thread I will be keeping tabs on it! Hopefully CCP takes note and leaves those of us supporting the team and not pretending to be an assault alone when they bring out the nerf bat.

As a Logi here is my suggestion.

Give all Logi suites a -5% damage penalty, we should be focused on support anyway.


Also do not allow any Logi suites to equip damage increasing mods on high slots. That alone may stop anyone from trying to turn the suite into an assault varient.

Logi's that picked the role to run support would be ok with it.

Possible changes: If you were to get rid of even one low slot then this fit could still be used as a pseudo assault suit, but it would lose access to two equipment slots.

Just something I'd like to get straight: if I understand correctly, the point you are making is that logis don't need any changes what so ever, except for the caldari racial bonus. Yet at the end of your first post, you suggest to remove at least one low slot from the caldari logi to bring it in line with the assault. So what do you actually want, touch the logi or not?

However, what I can see for myself is that the Caldari logi could fill all its slots and sacrifice very little except for price, I'm not sure if that is or is not a problem, it's just a suggestion in case it is.

Before you could reduce a light weapons CPU fitting cost by 40%, now you can only reduce it by 15% and the PG requirements by 25%. Since all other suits had less CPU and PG to begin with, it hits them harder than it hit logis.

The numbers in this thread are wrong for the shields on the Caldari logi suit w/max shields EX are 679

nerf them all to have less H-Power and L-Power slots than any assault suit