\ I still don't think a logi needs to be tanking as much as an assault player though, but that's up for debate.

I've been saying the bonus needs to be 2% per level. That will go a long way, and probably fix the suit. People calling for across the board nerfs to all logis dont understand balance.

Well that's my point exactly. They're in the combat supporting the assaults but they aren't engaging in head-to-head combat with others that they would need as much as assaults. I imagine most players in a firefight will shoot the guy shooting them, not the one providing ammo and a bit of reps. So assaults should have a bit more armor/shields. I'm not saying give them no mod slots, but they should be a little under the assaults.

I would gladly trade 60-80 hp of the shields on the damned thing for a third low power slot so I can put some freakin armor on...

Just sayin...

Your logic breaks when the Logi uses an AR. AR's are all around weapon with no apperant weakness but also no real strength. Using them makes side arms a luxury and definately not a need. Therefore what man assault players have done (most assaults should use and assault weapon (AR, Scrambler Rifle, Whatever the caladari and minmitar varients will be) is use the large amount of PG and CPU to available to the logi make a superior suit for killing than what you can do with the assault suit due to PG/CPU constraints.

Listen....the caldari logi suit is just ridiculous. In this build, it seems as if CCP wants to everyone to specialize and not one suit being able to do it all or even more than one role. And I fully understand that. But the caldari logi is the only one that can do it all. What do they need with 5 high and 4 low power slots? Why is their shield delay faster than an assault suit?

Many assault guys are using common sense and going with the logi suit because they get all of those mods and multiple equipment slots. I hear people saying that a scout suit shouldnt get an extra equipment slot because they are taking logi's roles from them. Well, logi suits are taking assault roles. The only thing a logi needs to have in order to fill their role is multiple equipment slots. Having 600+ shields, etc is not necessary and it needs to be changed to exhibit a more clear difference in suits.

I'm thinking that you would be glad that I just bumped your thread.

And although I wrote "logi suits", I am referring to the caldari logi. Because the caldari logi suit is the problem. But my opinion on logi suits needing multiple equipment slots to fulfill their role still stands. I'd like an extra equipment slot as an assault guy but I understand why I don't have one anymore.

Their reasoning is because they want everyone to specialize and no roles to overlap suits. I dig it

The Caldari Logistics suit is the ONLY logi suit that needs a rework and the reasons for that are as follows. Its OP, its an assault suit without a Side arm. It can have 600+ shields, and 500+ armor depending on which way you want to go. It has a fast recharge rate, and 5 hp/s for armor based off the racial skill. It has 5 high slots, 4 low slots, and 3 equipment slots, along with a higher base CPU and PG level making the related skills effect them even more. The speed/sidarm penalty is nothing compared to the bonuses it gets on the utility side. I don't know how it would be balanced, but when the logi is better at combat then the assault, then somethings wrong. Flux grenades arnt an excuse for this, you cant expect everyone to run something like that simply because of one OP suit.

The logi has 5 highs and 4 Lows where the assault has 4 highs and 3 lows.

I said "effectively" has two less because the 5 hp/s the logi suit gets as a bonus negates having to run an armor repper let alone a complex armor repper that cost the suit 45 CPU and 11PG.

This isn't even ging into the racial bonus the suit gets.

So again with a straight face tell me how this isn't OP?

no

caldaris logics are fine as is

That would be 89.1HP per extender.
LOL, Armor tanking giving more HP my ass.

Give all Logi suites a -5% damage penalty, we should be focused on support anyway.

Also do not allow any Logi suites to equip damage increasing mods on high slots. That alone may stop anyone from trying to turn the suite into an assault varient.

Nah man, all bonuses are calculated together.
10% from the skill, + 25% from the bonus = 35%.
66 * 1.35 = 89.1.

Yup, I'm sure.
Some bonuses however, like the shield regulator ones are multiplicative.

Damage mods are also calculated together.
They however have a stacking penalty for every extra module.
I don't remember how much per module, but after the 4th you get like 1-2% extra damage.

I don't think the bonus is that op. besides, you can't even fit 5 CSE and have a decent fit. You gimp the rest of your suit load out just for straight hp stacking. That's 55 pg before you even put on a weapon, let alone armor plates.

Proto suits, with all level 5 skills should be a terror. You assume the best possible scenario.

I don't even run cal logi since I felt the bonus was wasted. You HAVE to fit a SE to even get the bonus.

I def think their slot layout is op. that could use a tweak, but their bonus is fine..

No suit needs an inherent dmg bonus. Rate of fire, cool down, reload etc are all going to give you more dps. But percent damage is a bad way to balance. Aka tac ar issues now.

This went four pages without your math getting fixed? Not sure which country's education system is responsible. Your math makes the Caldari logi look stronger.

"So 373.5 + 445.5 = 819 EHP"

Where does that number come from? It's meant to be logistics base hp with passives, right? You carried the number wrong. You have the right one at the top too:

"-337.5"

You buffed their EHP by 37hp or so with a math error.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=76141&find=unread

This guys a reject who continually makes incorrect assertions.

Also, you said the logi had three lows in another post - that's incorrect. Proto Cal Logistics if 5H 4L 3E (sum of 12), this matches Minmatar 4H 4L 4E (12) and Gallente 3H 5L 4E (12).

Oddly this doesn't get a post more and the other thread grows by another 4 pages...

H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11PG
H: Shield extender 54 CPU / 11 PG

Total = 270 CPU/ 55 PG

L: Complex Shield Regulator 35 CPU/ 3 PG
L: Complex Kinetic mod 27 CPU/ 15 PG
L:Basic Armor Repairer 20 CPU / 1 PG
L: Basic CPU Upgrade = 16% more CPU

Total = 83 CPU / 19 CPU

LW: Balac: 90 CPU 13 PG
G: Core Locus grenade 48 CPU / 6 PG
Or Allotek Flux 52 CPU / 6 PG

Total: 138 or 142 CPU / 19 PG

E: Ishkone Gauged Nano Hive: 59 CPU / 11PG
E: Blank
E: Blank

Total: 59 CPU /11 PG

CPU Available: 507 / PG available: 101.4

Total CPU Used: 550 or 554 CPU / PG used: 104

But that doesn't fit right? Except 507 x 1.16 = 588.12

Still not enough PG right? Assault Rifle Fitting skill(whatever it's called 13 x .25 = 3.25
104 - 3.25 = 100.75

So all this just barely fit, but is it really that much better than what can be done with a Caldari Assault Suit?

Edit:
Without CL bonus:
Caldari Assault: 412.5 + 290.4 =702.9 EHP
Caldari Logistics:337.5 + 363 = 700.5 EHP

With CL Bonus: 337.5 + 445.5 = 783 EHP
783(L) - 702.9(A) = 80.1 HP difference.

My god, this is game breaking

Edit: Now if you used a complex CPU Upgrade, and replaced the Basic Armor repairer with a PG Upgrade, then you would be able to fill your other equipment slots, but I want all assault users to realize that this is far more expensive than your suit would ever get.

Just something I'd like to get straight: if I understand correctly, the point you are making is that logis don't need any changes what so ever, except for the caldari racial bonus. Yet at the end of your first post, you suggest to remove at least one low slot from the caldari logi to bring it in line with the assault. So what do you actually want, touch the logi or not?

The numbers in this thread are wrong for the shields on the Caldari logi suit w/max shields EX are 679

nerf them all to have less H-Power and L-Power slots than any assault suit

START TRANSMISSION..................



679 !!!!! you tell me if its add or mult 679 max skills and mods is all you get !!!!!! 679, 679, 679..
OMG THE SKY IS FALLING!!! YOU GUYS SEEM PRETTY SMART. 679 IS ALL YOU GET !!



END TRANSMISSION................ ..

Ya wish dev could confirm which it is, have seen people use both and not sure what is correct.

OK I figured I would give my 2 isk since everyone else is.


**The logis traded their sidearm for more equipment slots not more equipment slots AND high/low slots**

Remove a low slot from the Min Logi
Remove a high slot from the Gal Logi
Remove a high OR a low slot from the Cal Logi

some minor tweaking to the racial suit bonuses and I would be happy and would think that all is right in the world of logis, scouts, and assaults....................vehicles and heavies on the other hand.............

nerfs to logi mean literally nothing if assault specialization suits don't get buffed.

I don't have everything in front of me but with Level 5 in both Dropsuit Core Upgrades & Dropsuit Engineering my Amarr Logi suit has 87 PG up from the base suit value of 66 (no alteration from Mods, just skills).

Let us also not forget that the hit boxes on the Logi Suits are bigger than the hit boxes

Edit* You also forgot to point out the current racial bonus for the Caldari Assault suit; The shields regenerate fatser, which makes it more suitable for frontline combat than the slower Logi.

Personally, I believe the Caldari Logi suit is perfectly fine.

Perhaps swapping the delays would be an easy balance fix then? You could do that without touching anything else.

all these asaults trying to nerf logistics class are only looking at module allocation you never once see an assault bring up any other stat beyond modules

If some Mercs are dead set on QQing until the nerf hammer comes out then all I have to say is the AR is part of the current problem and they should keep that in mind when QQing for nerfs.)