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DudeMcGuy 06
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
11
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
^The nanohive are only nerfed at the basic and militia level. Advanced level and above give more than double the clusters of the standard.
CCP did this to force people to skill up more in the nanohives. It was far too easy in the previous build to just use guaged nanohives (only lvl 2) and never bother leveling up anymore. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1223
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'm thinking that you would be glad that I just bumped your thread. I actually am lol Quote:And although I wrote "logi suits", I am referring to the caldari logi. Because the caldari logi suit is the problem. But my opinion on logi suits needing multiple equipment slots to fulfill their role still stands. I'd like an extra equipment slot as an assault guy but I understand why I don't have one anymore. I don't particularly see why assaults or scouts shouldn't get 1 more equipment slot, especially now that nono-hives got nerfed.
Their reasoning is because they want everyone to specialize and no roles to overlap suits. I dig it |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1223
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
DudeMcGuy 06 wrote:^The nanohive are only nerfed at the basic and militia level. Advanced level and above give more than double the clusters of the standard.
CCP did this to force people to skill up more in the nanohives. It was far too easy in the previous build to just use guaged nanohives (only lvl 2) and never bother leveling up anymore.
yeah but now we have to use proto nanohives in order to have a competent nanohive? Or, they're forcing you to squad up with a logi. |
DudeMcGuy 06
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
11
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
I think the K-2 is more than enough for a single person Ydubbs. If you want to be able to resupply your whole squad then yes, Proto should be required. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
317
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Their reasoning is because they want everyone to specialize and no roles to overlap suits. I dig it
But all suits overlap in the killing department, what makes the assault suit special? Nothing. That's why I believe they should be given a damage bonus, either 1-2% per level, that way the assault class specializes in dealing damage. It would give people a reason to skill into assaults, and not logis, if they want to be "slayers".
It would also give them an actual reason to ditch the basic suit. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
317
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
I mean, does anyone have a problem with assault players getting a damage bonus? |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
240
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
The Caldari Logistics suit is the ONLY logi suit that needs a rework and the reasons for that are as follows. Its OP, its an assault suit without a Side arm. It can have 600+ shields, and 500+ armor depending on which way you want to go. It has a fast recharge rate, and 5 hp/s for armor based off the racial skill. It has 5 high slots, 4 low slots, and 3 equipment slots, along with a higher base CPU and PG level making the related skills effect them even more. The speed/sidarm penalty is nothing compared to the bonuses it gets on the utility side. I don't know how it would be balanced, but when the logi is better at combat then the assault, then somethings wrong. Flux grenades arnt an excuse for this, you cant expect everyone to run something like that simply because of one OP suit. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
317
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Posted - 2013.05.11 19:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:The Caldari Logistics suit is the ONLY logi suit that needs a rework and the reasons for that are as follows. Its OP, its an assault suit without a Side arm. It can have 600+ shields, and 500+ armor depending on which way you want to go. It has a fast recharge rate, and 5 hp/s for armor based off the racial skill. It has 5 high slots, 4 low slots, and 3 equipment slots, along with a higher base CPU and PG level making the related skills effect them even more. The speed/sidarm penalty is nothing compared to the bonuses it gets on the utility side. I don't know how it would be balanced, but when the logi is better at combat then the assault, then somethings wrong. Flux grenades arnt an excuse for this, you cant expect everyone to run something like that simply because of one OP suit. That's what I've been saying, the bonus is the problem here. Without it it would have slightly less HP than the assault suit, while still a bit slower. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
475
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Posted - 2013.05.11 20:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
Caldari problem: The assault also effectively has two less lower slots.
The logi has 5 highs and 4 Lows where the assault has 4 highs and 3 lows.
But Belzee you just said assault has 2 less lower slots.
I said "effectively" has two less because the 5 hp/s the logi suit gets as a bonus negates having to run an armor repper let alone a complex armor repper that cost the suit 45 CPU and 11PG.
Also the fact that logi gets a stupid shields depleted and restart rate that stacking 2 complex shield regin cuts the time in half so they get their shields back in 3 seconds if depleted or 2 seconds if not. Then a logi can put a complex armor repper and get 10hp/s without delay so even if you get through their shields their armor is repairing them as you shoot them, you reload and their shields are getting replenished along with whatever armor you happened to scratch.
This isn't even ging into the racial bonus the suit gets. So again with a straight face tell me how this isn't OP? |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
320
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Posted - 2013.05.11 20:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Belzeebub Santana wrote:The logi has 5 highs and 4 Lows where the assault has 4 highs and 3 lows. Logi gets 3 lows, not 4
Quote:I said "effectively" has two less because the 5 hp/s the logi suit gets as a bonus negates having to run an armor repper let alone a complex armor repper that cost the suit 45 CPU and 11PG. By that logic, the assault suit also gets a permanent high/low slot since it has more HP, more than a shield extenders worth. They then also get whatever the shield regen bonus is worth, though admittedly, I don't think that counts for much.
Quote:This isn't even ging into the racial bonus the suit gets. That is the only problem here.
Quote:So again with a straight face tell me how this isn't OP? Never said it wasn't, in fact, just 4 Complex shield extenders equals another complex shield extender thanks to their bonus, that last slot can then be used for a damage mod or another extender for maximum OP'ness.
Though I do believe this would all get fixed if they tweaked/changed the Caldari logi's bonus, and gave assault users a damage bonus instead of improved recharge rate.
The Caldari logi suit is OP and needs to be looked at. |
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NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
329
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Posted - 2013.05.12 00:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
So can we all agree that the Caldari logi's bonus needs to change, and that all assault suits should get a damage bonus? |
Purona
Militaires Sans Jeux
4
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Posted - 2013.05.12 01:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:So can we all agree that the Caldari logi's bonus needs to change, and that all assault suits should get a damage bonus?
no
caldaris logics are fine as is |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
331
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Posted - 2013.05.12 02:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Purona wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:So can we all agree that the Caldari logi's bonus needs to change, and that all assault suits should get a damage bonus? no caldaris logics are fine as is Sure... care to explain your position on the subject? "fine as is" doesn't exactly mean anything |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
21
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
I don't think the bonus is that op. besides, you can't even fit 5 CSE and have a decent fit. You gimp the rest of your suit load out just for straight hp stacking. That's 55 pg before you even put on a weapon, let alone armor plates.
Proto suits, with all level 5 skills should be a terror. You assume the best possible scenario.
I don't even run cal logi since I felt the bonus was wasted. You HAVE to fit a SE to even get the bonus.
I def think their slot layout is op. that could use a tweak, but their bonus is fine..
No suit needs an inherent dmg bonus. Rate of fire, cool down, reload etc are all going to give you more dps. But percent damage is a bad way to balance. Aka tac ar issues now. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
331
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Well, I'm pretty sure that with all PG increasing skills they would have about 102 PG available (the 5% from core upgrades, and then the 25% from the main PG skill)
Though you're right in that it would be a best possible scenario, I can't actually see if that would all fit including a proto weapon and decent equipment myself since I don't use them. We really need a way to test fittings.
Are there any Caldari Logi users that could give feedback on fitting possibilities? |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1014
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
TBH my main problem with logis is that they're too good at killing. What does that leave the assault at? ... Nothing?
That 10% damage would be perfect. Also give my Gallente the repping bonus, I am using two complex armor reps because otherwise I will stay in cover forever. So whatever the minor HP bonus I get from using plates, complex shield extenders beat me, because they can fit multiple of those while still regenerating faster. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
333
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:41:00 -
[47] - Quote
And now all my math has been rendered usless, since complex extenders actually give 72.6 HP thanks to their skill -_-, ughh, time for more maths...
This thread is now under construction... again. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1014
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:And now all my math has been rendered usless, since complex extenders actually give 72.6 HP thanks to their skill -_-, ughh, time for more maths...
This thread is now under construction... again. That would be 89.1HP per extender. LOL, Armor tanking giving more HP my ass. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
333
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:And now all my math has been rendered usless, since complex extenders actually give 72.6 HP thanks to their skill -_-, ughh, time for more maths...
This thread is now under construction... again. That would be 89.1HP per extender. LOL, Armor tanking giving more HP my ass. Nah, it's 72.6 with the skill at 5, 90.75 with caldari logi skill...
that's 363 for 4, and 453.75 if they can find a way to fit 5 |
II-X-II
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:55:00 -
[50] - Quote
As a Logi here is my suggestion.
Give all Logi suites a -5% damage penalty, we should be focused on support anyway.
Also do not allow any Logi suites to equip damage increasing mods on high slots. That alone may stop anyone from trying to turn the suite into an assault varient.
Logi's that picked the role to run support would be ok with it. |
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Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1014
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Posted - 2013.05.12 04:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Cat Merc wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:And now all my math has been rendered usless, since complex extenders actually give 72.6 HP thanks to their skill -_-, ughh, time for more maths...
This thread is now under construction... again. That would be 89.1HP per extender. LOL, Armor tanking giving more HP my ass. Nah, it's 72.6 with the skill at 5, 90.75 with caldari logi skill... that's 363 for 4, and 453.75 if they can find a way to fit 5 Nah man, all bonuses are calculated together. 10% from the skill, + 25% from the bonus = 35%. 66 * 1.35 = 89.1. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
333
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Posted - 2013.05.12 05:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
II-X-II wrote: Give all Logi suites a -5% damage penalty, we should be focused on support anyway.
That any class would do less damage than all the others makes no sense.
Quote:Also do not allow any Logi suites to equip damage increasing mods on high slots. That alone may stop anyone from trying to turn the suite into an assault varient.
Stacking penalties already take care of that.
Anyone who picked logis just so they could earn WP without having to get their hands dirty is a bad logi, logis are just as much combat oriented as they are support, and any good logi can hold their own in a fight. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
333
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: Nah man, all bonuses are calculated together. 10% from the skill, + 25% from the bonus = 35%. 66 * 1.35 = 89.1.
You sure? Pretty sure they're multiplicative |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1014
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Posted - 2013.05.12 05:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Cat Merc wrote: Nah man, all bonuses are calculated together. 10% from the skill, + 25% from the bonus = 35%. 66 * 1.35 = 89.1.
You sure? Pretty sure they're multiplicative Yup, I'm sure. Some bonuses however, like the shield regulator ones are multiplicative. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
333
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Posted - 2013.05.12 05:07:00 -
[55] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Cat Merc wrote: Nah man, all bonuses are calculated together. 10% from the skill, + 25% from the bonus = 35%. 66 * 1.35 = 89.1.
You sure? Pretty sure they're multiplicative Yup, I'm sure. Some bonuses however, like the shield regulator ones are multiplicative. H'mm I just assumed since damage mods were multiplicative, alright, I'll use 89.1 for all the maths. Thank you for that. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1014
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Posted - 2013.05.12 05:09:00 -
[56] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Cat Merc wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Cat Merc wrote: Nah man, all bonuses are calculated together. 10% from the skill, + 25% from the bonus = 35%. 66 * 1.35 = 89.1.
You sure? Pretty sure they're multiplicative Yup, I'm sure. Some bonuses however, like the shield regulator ones are multiplicative. H'mm I just assumed since damage mods were multiplicative, alright, I'll use 89.1 for all the maths. Thank you for that. Damage mods are also calculated together. They however have a stacking penalty for every extra module. I don't remember how much per module, but after the 4th you get like 1-2% extra damage. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
334
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 05:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: Damage mods are also calculated together. They however have a stacking penalty for every extra module. I don't remember how much per module, but after the 4th you get like 1-2% extra damage.
Pretty sure they were multiplicative last build, which is why the penalty was needed in the first place.
1.10 x 1.10 would equal 1.21 It wasn't 1 + 0.10 + 0.10 = 1.20
o.O |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1014
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Posted - 2013.05.12 05:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Cat Merc wrote: Damage mods are also calculated together. They however have a stacking penalty for every extra module. I don't remember how much per module, but after the 4th you get like 1-2% extra damage.
Pretty sure they were multiplicative last build, which is why the penalty was needed in the first place. 1.10 x 1.10 would equal 1.21 It wasn't 1 + 0.10 + 0.10 = 1.20 o.O Nope. The stacking penalties are there to force you to use less gank. Imagine 4 complex damage mods without stacking penalties. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
337
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Posted - 2013.05.12 05:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
My eyes have been opened... and now I wish I were blind again. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
340
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Posted - 2013.05.12 06:29:00 -
[60] - Quote
Updated maths for maximum OPness |
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