crying

Glossary of terms.

CCP is a game company who wants to launch this "triple-A game" and become some sort of shining star in the ocean of video games out there with their one-shard sandboxy ideals.

CPM is a group of players who have the trust of the community and acts as the mediator between CCP and players.

AFK is the exploit that allows risk-free farming of reward that is normally gained by active gameplay, by taking advantage of the real playing people.

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In the ideal situation.

CCP, with their ideals and goals in mind, what they do should have the wider gaming community in mind, because people are always watching. Maybe not now, but in the future, whatever you do is your history, and your history tells people what kind of games you make, and how you run it. To CCP, AFK should be regarded as an exploit and those who make use of it should be punished, or at least set a target of getting the problem fixed.

CPM, with player's interest in mind, should discourage this AFK exploit because it is not doing the game any good. It is a stupid bug, a stupid exploit that ruins the game for those who want to actually play. CPM, normally, should discourage AFK farming, and should be communicating to CCP about how unhealthy this is.

AFK, being an exploit that ruins, nullify, invalidate, even discourage active gameplay (why fight a fight without your teammates when you can just AFK with them?), should be made illegal, discouraged, and eliminated with the fury of a thousand suns.

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In reality.

CCP is quiet about the whole thing, and does not seem to care about the cancer that is killing the game.

CPM is actively AFKing, and openly talks about it in the forum, and takes no action to discourage this exploit.

AFK is not regarded as an exploit, and is the most rewarding way, the perfect way to "play" the game.

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In my heart, crying out loud.

What the flying kittens.

TL:DR version right there.

Why care if someone AFK farms? I mean it's pub matches. I could understand if it was in corp battles or PC but pub matches are boring and full of bad blue and red barries.

In reality.

CCP is quiet about the whole thing, and does not seem to care about the cancer that is killing the game.

CPM is actively AFKing, and openly talks about it in the forum, and takes no action to discourage this exploit.

AFK is not regarded as an exploit, and is the most rewarding way, the perfect way to "play" the game.

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In my heart, crying out loud.

What the flying kittens.

A lot of those bad blue and reds are trying to learn how to play the game... and it's just possible that having good players showing them how it works might help them out.

CCP knows about the issue and are working to fix it allong with advisement of the CPM in the new build. CCP has not, however, deemed it to be a exploit and so far have no plans to punish those doing it.

We are in a sandbox with lots of tools to do what we want. its our choice to do what we want and build what we want with those tools so long as they exist. Regardless of if i like them or not, its not my place to tell people how to play with those tools, its CCPs.

Your failure to recognize this AFK mechanism to be a cancerous and is killing the game worries me.

Your "sandbox" argument does not even make sense. Sandbox refers to the endless possibilities players can create with their tools. AFK makes it meaningless to play with the sandbox. How can you not see this?

i never said that it was a good thing, i totally agree that it needs to go and we are working out a new system.

you will never see me saying that AFKing is a good thing, but you will never see me saying that people shoulnt use it while its here.

i never said that it was a good thing, i totally agree that it needs to go and we are working out a new system.

you will never see me saying that AFKing is a good thing, but you will never see me saying that people shoulnt use it while its here.

Just last night, I single handedly won a skirmish match all by myself. Not because I'm this godly FPS player, because I was the only one that wasn't AFK.

TL;DR version: Why isn't CPM babying the community and telling them how naughty they are while informing CCP of what they already know?

Your welcome

but you will never see me saying that people shoulnt use it while its here.

wait... people still going on about AFK players?

Looks like we have ourselves a comedian.

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Aside from that...


That's exactly what you should be doing as CPM.
Looking for bugs by trying to exploit the game mechanics is one thing, finding them and abusing/encouraging people to is another.


Llan Heindell.

wait... people still going on about AFK players?

The CPM's role to help pass the wishes of the players to CCP and vice versa,it is not the CPM's role to tell people what they can and can't do, as Jenza was saying, it's a sandbox,if someone just wants to sit in it and do nothing it's their choice.

Your failure to recognize this AFK mechanism to be a cancerous and is killing the game worries me.

Your "sandbox" argument does not even make sense. Sandbox refers to the endless possibilities players can create with their tools. AFK makes it meaningless to play with the sandbox. How can you not see this?

No one has any right to tell anyone how to play in the sandbox. You built a sand castle? Here, I'm gonna destroy it even though you spent 6 months creating it. You bought those shovels for the sandbox? Here, let me steal them from you. You worked hard for that ISK? Here, let me scam them from you.

What I'm trying to say here is that everyone here is allowed to do as they wish. We are in New Eden which means there are very little rules and CCP doesn't care how we use the tools they give us.

No, they aren't. I'm not sure how long you've been in the beta, but there was a time when people were just crashing LAVs into stuff behind the red line, then repairing them and earning WP (and thus SP) that way. Was that okay? No, and CCP siad as much by fixing it.

This whole "Oh it's a sandbox so I can do whatever I want *stick out tongue*" is asinine. Remember the recent bug that allowed you to get almost limitless orbitals just by team killing to 2450 and then getting 2500 again? Yea, that wasn't kosher either. People AFKing ruins my experience just as much as that exploit would have. When people who aren't even playing the game are ruining it for those who are, the game is flawed.

the game is flawed.

People AFKing ruins my experience

Did CCP punish the players crashing those LAVs? No they didn't. I was there when those shenanigans occurred and when orbital strikes were coming in literally every minute during the whole 15 minute match. CCP will fix the problem the AFKing but will not punish the players who were AFKing because no rules were broken.

CCP's silence on this issue is really disappointing.

CPM's inaction is also really disappointing.

Gamers; if someone doesn't tell me it's wrong, it's ok, because **** principles.

Taking SP gained from AFK farming would not be a punishment. How would it be a punishment to take SP away from them if that SP was never earned and should never have received in the first place? They literally did nothing to gain it.

It is not about New Eden. This is about a real life game that is called Dust 514 and there is a bug in the game that lets you sit out the game and do nothing and still gain SP from it although you are ruining other people's gameplay.

Your failure to recognize this AFK mechanism to be a cancerous and is killing the game worries me.

Your "sandbox" argument does not even make sense. Sandbox refers to the endless possibilities players can create with their tools. AFK makes it meaningless to play with the sandbox. How can you not see this?

Says who? Currently the only requirement to earn Active SP is entering a match, no one said I had to leave the MCC. I earned my SP fair and square.

Did CCP punish the players crashing those LAVs? No they didn't. I was there when those shenanigans occurred and when orbital strikes were coming in literally every minute during the whole 15 minute match. CCP will fix the problem the AFKing but will not punish the players who were AFKing because no rules were broken.

EDIT:

I remember the "limitless orbital" bug you mentioned. It was tested once and reported immediately to CCP by the corp who first discovered it. As a result, it was used only once or twice before an extended downtime kicked in fixing it.

What I'm trying to say here is that everyone here is allowed to do as they wish.

No one has any right to tell anyone how to play in the sandbox.

genius

Protobear squads and incompetent new-berries ruin my experience too.

Taking SP gained from AFK farming would not be a punishment. How would it be a punishment to take SP away from them if that SP was never earned and should never have received in the first place? They literally did nothing to gain it.
I say take away all SP made from AFK farming (if possible).

TL:DR version right there.

I'm not trolling when I say this:

You are effectively asking CCP to punish players for using a tool in a way that technically didn't violate the rules. The tool is the mechanic implemented by CCP long ago that allows you to earn WP/SP from time spent in the match as part of their experiment. The experiment didn't go very well so they will likely remove that feature but they will not remove the SP earned because the players were merely doing what they were allowed to do under the mechanics.

What you are suggesting is like this:

You put a lab rat on one end of the maze and a lump of cheese on the other. You then leave tiny trails of very small crumbs of cheese somewhere alone the way because you think the lab rat won't make it to the other side of the maze in time before starving to death. You then realize that the rat is not going after the big lump of cheese and is just sitting around munching on the crumbs you left around. You then decide to remove those crumbs and leave the big cheese where it is so that the rat can finally get moving. But before you let the rat move, you pick up the rat and force it to vomit what it just ate. Effectively punishing the rat for eating what you gave it.

The point of giving SP for just being in a match to ensure that new/bad players make a minimum amount of SP to ensure they can progress, and NOT for you people to essentially get a free passive booster.

It's too bad there are so many of you super liberal (not in a political sense) apologists, or else we might actually shame CCP into punishing them.

I'm not trolling when I say this:

You are effectively asking CCP to punish players for using a tool in a way that technically didn't violate the rules. The tool is the mechanic implemented by CCP long ago that allows you to earn WP/SP from time spent in the match as part of their experiment. The experiment didn't go very well so they will likely remove that feature but they will not remove the SP earned because the players were merely doing what they were allowed to do under the mechanics.

What you are suggesting is like this:

You put a lab rat on one end of the maze and a lump of cheese on the other. You then leave tiny trails of very small crumbs of cheese somewhere alone the way because you think the lab rat won't make it to the other side of the maze in time before starving to death. You then realize that the rat is not going after the big lump of cheese and is just sitting around munching on the crumbs you left around. You then decide to remove those crumbs and leave the big cheese where it is so that the rat can finally get moving. But before you let the rat move, you pick up the rat and force it to vomit what it just ate. Effectively punishing the rat for eating what you gave it.

Since skirmish stats arent tracking how do you prove you weren't AFK in those games it could look like it if you have low lifetime WP but high SP how do you know they are AFK and not just suffering from this glitch?

It's incredible how some of you people act. Just because someone used a legitimate mechanic in a way you don't agree with, suddenly you want to punish them for it?

So what? CCP never told me that I have no choice but to jump out of the MCC. But I do it anyways because I like the action of stabbing enemies. And I don't see CCP telling me that I shouldn't team kill my fellow blueberries with an LAV (remembering to switch seats just before impact).

Its more like forgetting to make a law that outlaws stealing, and then upon realizing your mistake you take all the stolen goods back from the thieves, but then not throwing the thieves in jail or any other punishment.
Oh no, those poor thieves got their unearned stolen goods taken away from them, what a terrible punishment

Exactly. CCP, why the hell aren't I getting my SP in my merc quarters? Why is the MCC so different? This is bull ****, quit telling me how to play MY game!

It's incredible how some of you people act. Just because someone used a legitimate mechanic in a way you don't agree with, suddenly you want to punish them for it?

AFK is the exploit that allows risk-free farming of reward that is normally gained by active gameplay, by taking advantage of the real playing people.

I'm going to start AFK farming, I deserve SP for hurting my team. I also deserve to keep it because literally doing nothing counts as earning.

I am not a cop, I am not a king, I can't tell anyone what they can or cannot do in the game.

I am at best a senator who can voice the expression that afking is not welcomed and in clear violation of the right to fight to the emperors who can then force you all to stop afking.

All I can say about it right now is that there is a CCP team working on this RIGHT now.

I am not a cop, I am not a king, I can't tell anyone what they can or cannot do in the game.

I am at best a senator who can voice the expression that afking is not welcomed and in clear violation of the right to fight to the emperors who can then force you all to stop afking.

All I can say about it right now is that there is a CCP team working on this RIGHT now.

I am not a cop, I am not a king, I can't tell anyone what they can or cannot do in the game.

I am at best a senator who can voice the expression that afking is not welcomed and in clear violation of the right to fight to the emperors who can then force you all to stop afking.

All I can say about it right now is that there is a CCP team working on this RIGHT now.

What about taking away SP earned through AFKing at a time when it is technically a legal mechanic?

Thank you for the first even remotely reasonable response by a CPM on this subject.

"Not playing is a legitimate way of playing". Maken : 1 Logic : 0

Dude, your so full of ****. Jenza said she thinks it should be fixed, but her not telling people how to play is unreasonable? Get over yourself.

Jenza's post didn't say anything other than I AFK even though I don't like it because other people started it. That's what I got. At least IWS stayed firmly neutral and mentioned something actually relevant to the issue at hand; CCP working on it RIGHT now.

Well, I should've known you were just trolling me this whole time. I'll give you 9/10 for keeping me up like this.

I don't like AFKers at all and feel CCP should have addressed this issue long ago when it was clear it would become a problem.

Those are your own words. If anything you're the one trolling, both here and when you're AFK in the MCC.

I don't like AFKers at all and feel CCP should have addressed this issue long ago when it was clear it would become a problem.

I don't AFK. Did you even read my posts? I'm the guy willing to run into a gunfight with a knife while I see heavies with HMGs parking themselves in the MCC doing nothing and you call me an AFKer?

Even if you don't AFK, the words above are still yours. Calling not playing a legitimate way of playing is nonsensical and moronic.

But it is... the Sp system says so.

Glossary of terms.

CCP is a game company who wants to launch this "triple-A game" and become some sort of shining star in the ocean of video games out there with their one-shard sandboxy ideals.

CPM is a group of players who have the trust of the community and acts as the mediator between CCP and players.

AFK is the exploit that allows risk-free farming of reward that is normally gained by active gameplay, by taking advantage of the real playing people.

---

In the ideal situation.

CCP, with their ideals and goals in mind, what they do should have the wider gaming community in mind, because people are always watching. Maybe not now, but in the future, whatever you do is your history, and your history tells people what kind of games you make, and how you run it. To CCP, AFK should be regarded as an exploit and those who make use of it should be punished, or at least set a target of getting the problem fixed.

CPM, with player's interest in mind, should discourage this AFK exploit because it is not doing the game any good. It is a stupid bug, a stupid exploit that ruins the game for those who want to actually play. CPM, normally, should discourage AFK farming, and should be communicating to CCP about how unhealthy this is.

AFK, being an exploit that ruins, nullify, invalidate, even discourage active gameplay (why fight a fight without your teammates when you can just AFK with them?), should be made illegal, discouraged, and eliminated with the fury of a thousand suns.

---

In reality.

CCP is quiet about the whole thing, and does not seem to care about the cancer that is killing the game.

CPM is actively AFKing, and openly talks about it in the forum, and takes no action to discourage this exploit.

AFK is not regarded as an exploit, and is the most rewarding way, the perfect way to "play" the game.

---

In my heart, crying out loud.

What the flying kittens.

Even if you don't AFK, the words above are still yours. Calling not playing a legitimate way of playing is nonsensical and moronic.

You can't possibly believe the junk you write. It's borked... and you can get away with it... end of story. Trying to justify it is kind of pathetic.

If you are going to do AFK... then just shut up and do it. Don't bother trying to defend it -- unless you like looking stupid.

and you can get away with it

Man how many of these threads are there today? First the Anti-Kain thread, which was really about AFKing and now this one. All in all though, a good read, bad trolling, not informative at all, lacks substance....I give this thread a 4, but only because there was community involvement.

Say whatever you want, but no rules were broken up to this point. It's as simple as that.

I agree that farming SP via AFKing must stop because I don't like it. But I don't and never will agree that the AFK players should be punished by having their SP removed when the system was intentionally put into place by CCP.

You clearly put effort into it, 1/10

I've already agreed that the chance of them doing anything (with regards to punishment) is basically zero, but don't try and act as if the AFK farmers are just harmless bystandards here.

Technically the limitless orbital strike glitch didn't break any rules either--the point was that it wasn't intended to work like that. It's pretty clear the SP system now is the same way. Stop defending it as if the people aren't deliberately trying to fleece the system.

An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

Overall, what I'm trying to say here is that it's one thing to remove the AFK SP farming but it's another to try to retroactively remove the SP earned when none of the players who were farming were breaking any rules. Yes, I defend their actions by virtue of the fact that they can do whatever they want with the tools given to them. Yes, their actions cheapen our efforts for those of us who actually put forth effort and therefore this mechanic in which SP is earned for time played must be removed. But I will not stand silent to the fact that some people here want to remove the SP earned this way.

Since no rules were broken, there should be no punishment (in this case removing SP earned). Just simply take away the AFK-promoting mechanic and be done with it.

I'm almost positive there was something we agreed to at some point (EULA maybe) that states we will not knowingly and willingly use exploits in the game. So rules were broken. Tears were shed. Now SP should be lost (and hopefully more tears will be shed).

Fully endorse removing SP from AFK farmers.

We'll just end this debate here right now and wait for CCP to make an official announcement on the matter.

23. You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.

Just as a matter of curiosity, I looked up the EULA for EVE, which cites the adherence to the Rules of Conduct. Number 23 is of particular interest, since, if Dust EULA is anything like EVE's, it means they are justifiably punishable.

Just as a matter of curiosity, I looked up the EULA for EVE, which cites the adherence to the Rules of Conduct. Number 23 is of particular interest, since, if Dust EULA is anything like EVE's, it means they are justifiably punishable.

23. You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.

But if the EVE code applies, afk farming should be an offence.

Key word.