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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
247
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Posted - 2013.05.02 23:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:No one has any right to tell anyone how to play in the sandbox. You built a sand castle? Here, I'm gonna destroy it even though you spent 6 months creating it. You bought those shovels for the sandbox? Here, let me steal them from you. You worked hard for that ISK? Here, let me scam them from you.
What I'm trying to say here is that everyone here is allowed to do as they wish. We are in New Eden which means there are very little rules and CCP doesn't care how we use the tools they give us.
No, they aren't. I'm not sure how long you've been in the beta, but there was a time when people were just crashing LAVs into stuff behind the red line, then repairing them and earning WP (and thus SP) that way. Was that okay? No, and CCP siad as much by fixing it.
This whole "Oh it's a sandbox so I can do whatever I want *stick out tongue*" is asinine. Remember the recent bug that allowed you to get almost limitless orbitals just by team killing to 2450 and then getting 2500 again? Yea, that wasn't kosher either. People AFKing ruins my experience just as much as that exploit would have. When people who aren't even playing the game are ruining it for those who are, the game is flawed. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
248
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Posted - 2013.05.03 00:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
Did CCP punish the players crashing those LAVs? No they didn't. I was there when those shenanigans occurred and when orbital strikes were coming in literally every minute during the whole 15 minute match. CCP will fix the problem the AFKing but will not punish the players who were AFKing because no rules were broken.
EDIT:
I remember the "limitless orbital" bug you mentioned. It was tested once and reported immediately to CCP by the corp who first discovered it. As a result, it was used only once or twice before an extended downtime kicked in fixing it.
No, they won't. Whether they should or not is another question entirely.
But your response was taken from the "it's okay for them to do whatever" not the "what they did was wrong, but i realize they won't be punished" point of view:
Quote:What I'm trying to say here is that everyone here is allowed to do as they wish.
Quote:No one has any right to tell anyone how to play in the sandbox.
It's too bad there are so many of you super liberal (not in a political sense) apologists, or else we might actually shame CCP into punishing them.
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:genius
Thanks.
Quote:Protobear squads and incompetent new-berries ruin my experience too.
Protobears are actually playing the game. You have to distinguish between legitimate ways of playing and exploits. It should be pretty obvious to you that not playing isn't a legitimate way of playing (herp derp). Proto suits are a fundamental part of the game (as are new players).
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Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
248
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 00:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
I want everyone who abused this exploit to be branded with the Scarlet Letters: AFK. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
250
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 00:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:It's too bad there are so many of you super liberal (not in a political sense) apologists, or else we might actually shame CCP into punishing them. So what? CCP never told me that I have no choice but to jump out of the MCC. But I do it anyways because I like the action of stabbing enemies. And I don't see CCP telling me that I shouldn't team kill my fellow blueberries with an LAV (remembering to switch seats just before impact).
At some point you realize that trying to use reason to have a discussion with people who are willfully avoiding even the merest notion of it...is pointless.
I guess when CCP finally fixes this, Maken can explain to us using his impeccable reasoning how the next SP exploit isn't an SP exploit. Until that time I'll be sure to TK every single PRO scrub (which is all of you) I see since CCP hasn't specifically told me not to. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
251
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 00:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:It's incredible how some of you people act. Just because someone used a legitimate mechanic in a way you don't agree with, suddenly you want to punish them for it?
"Not playing is a legitimate way of playing". Maken : 1 Logic : 0 |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 00:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:It's incredible how some of you people act. Just because someone used a legitimate mechanic in a way you don't agree with, suddenly you want to punish them for it? "Not playing is a legitimate way of playing". Maken : 1 Logic : 0 Well, I should've known you were just trolling me this whole time. I'll give you 9/10 for keeping me up like this.
Those are your own words. If anything you're the one trolling, both here and when you're AFK in the MCC.
I don't like AFKers at all and feel CCP should have addressed this issue long ago when it was clear it would become a problem. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 00:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:It's incredible how some of you people act. Just because someone used a legitimate mechanic in a way you don't agree with, suddenly you want to punish them for it? "Not playing is a legitimate way of playing". Maken : 1 Logic : 0 Well, I should've known you were just trolling me this whole time. I'll give you 9/10 for keeping me up like this. Those are your own words. If anything you're the one trolling, both here and when you're AFK in the MCC. I don't like AFKers at all and feel CCP should have addressed this issue long ago when it was clear it would become a problem. I don't AFK. Did you even read my posts? I'm the guy willing to run into a gunfight with a knife while I see heavies with HMGs parking themselves in the MCC doing nothing and you call me an AFKer?
Even if you don't AFK, the words above are still yours. Calling not playing a legitimate way of playing is nonsensical and moronic. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 01:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Even if you don't AFK, the words above are still yours. Calling not playing a legitimate way of playing is nonsensical and moronic. Say whatever you want, but no rules were broken up to this point. It's as simple as that. I agree that farming SP via AFKing must stop because I don't like it. But I don't and never will agree that the AFK players should be punished by having their SP removed when the system was intentionally put into place by CCP.
I've already agreed that the chance of them doing anything is basically zero, but don't try and act as if the AFK farmers are just harmless bystandards here.
Technically the limitless orbital strike glitch didn't break any rules either--the point was that it wasn't intended to work like that. It's pretty clear the SP system now is the same way. Stop defending it as if the people aren't deliberately trying to fleece the system. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 01:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Actually it is an exploit, and I think I can prove it. First we'll use the standard definition of exploit as it relates to video games. I'll use the wiki page because it suits our purposes.
Quote:An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.
It's a little vague, so we can even make it more specific if we want. I'd like to add "often circumventing established in-game mechanics" to the end of that.
There is already a system in place to prevent AFK farming. That's the key point everyone who denies it's an exploit seems to have been missing.
Clearly CCP didn't want people to just AFK farm because if you try to just stay on the spawn screen, the match will actually kick you after a few minutes. This satisfies our condition of "not intended by the game's designers".
Obviously being able to do something else entirely while reaping essentially the same rewards as someone else who puts time in satisfies "to their advantage."
And "often circumventing established in-game mechanics" is satisfied by the fact that you need to spawn to avoid being kicked for being AFK.
I think this proves it's an exploit, so any claims to the contrary or that it's a legitimate tactic are baseless.
Whether or not people get punished is up to CCP (I'm not even sure if they could track it). |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 01:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Overall, what I'm trying to say here is that it's one thing to remove the AFK SP farming but it's another to try to retroactively remove the SP earned when none of the players who were farming were breaking any rules. Yes, I defend their actions by virtue of the fact that they can do whatever they want with the tools given to them. Yes, their actions cheapen our efforts for those of us who actually put forth effort and therefore this mechanic in which SP is earned for time played must be removed. But I will not stand silent to the fact that some people here want to remove the SP earned this way.
Since no rules were broken, there should be no punishment (in this case removing SP earned). Just simply take away the AFK-promoting mechanic and be done with it.
I'm almost positive there was something we agreed to at some point (EULA maybe) that states we will not knowingly and willingly use exploits in the game. So rules were broken. Tears were shed. Now SP should be lost (and hopefully more tears will be shed).
Fully endorse removing SP from AFK farmers. |
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Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 02:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Parson Atreides wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Overall, what I'm trying to say here is that it's one thing to remove the AFK SP farming but it's another to try to retroactively remove the SP earned when none of the players who were farming were breaking any rules. Yes, I defend their actions by virtue of the fact that they can do whatever they want with the tools given to them. Yes, their actions cheapen our efforts for those of us who actually put forth effort and therefore this mechanic in which SP is earned for time played must be removed. But I will not stand silent to the fact that some people here want to remove the SP earned this way.
Since no rules were broken, there should be no punishment (in this case removing SP earned). Just simply take away the AFK-promoting mechanic and be done with it. I'm almost positive there was something we agreed to at some point (EULA maybe) that states we will not knowingly and willingly use exploits in the game. So rules were broken. Tears were shed. Now SP should be lost (and hopefully more tears will be shed). Fully endorse removing SP from AFK farmers. We'll just end this debate here right now and wait for CCP to make an official announcement on the matter.
Just as a matter of curiosity, I looked up the EULA for EVE, which cites the adherence to the Rules of Conduct. Number 23 is of particular interest, since, if Dust EULA is anything like EVE's, it means they are justifiably punishable.
Quote:23. You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
253
|
Posted - 2013.05.03 02:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Veiny Throbbing Joystick wrote:But if the EVE code applies, afk farming should be an offence. Key word.
It's already been proven it's an exploit. Whether we explicitly agreed not to advocate the use or use the exploits themselves is pointless right now.
You're so far beyond trying to defend this rationally it's insane. People were willfully and knowingly abusing an exploit and if any punishment is possible, it's clearly justified. |
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