If they don't reset SP, what about AUR used to buy boosters? What about all the cheap BPOs we purchased before the price hike? I kinda hope they DON'T reset AUR, I want to keep all my stuff

Alright... *cracks knuckles* ...amateur hour is over. Time to get down to brass tacks with this subject (this is truly a snafu of the first magnitude).

Let's do some ethics (hope you packed a lunch):

First, it is necessary for us to CLEARLY define the terminology that was used, and is currently under debate now - in as far as, how it may have -ábeen defined by the consumer, as well as, how CCP may have intended it to be defined, both in light of the actual literal interpretations of said terms.

-áTerms currently under debate:

GÇó Mercenary Pack
GÇó Credited in full
GÇó Character reset
GÇó Commercial release

"...Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514 account after each character reset AND for the commercial release."

(emphasis added)

I am, of course, assuming that the above quote is accurate.

"Mercenary pack" is easy. We all know what it is and what it contains.

"Credited in full", like above, is also VERY clear.

"Character reset", now here is we're we star to run into some problems. What exactly is a character reset (in as far as, both the paying customer and CCP may have defined it).

"Commercial release", and again we run into the same problem as above: what exactly does a "commercial release" Intel?

Let's explore the contested terms.

1. Character reset:

As a consumer, there are two ways to interpret this phrase:

1. Singular: "my character will be reset". This excludes the necessity for the consumer to concern themselves with any other consumer who may have purchased the "Mercenary Pack". In essence, in this interpretation, the consumers purchase occurred in a vacuum.

2. Plural: "all consumers are subject (SUBJECT not entitled) to a reset when it occurs. In this interpretation, the consumer is buying the "Mercenary Pack" with the understanding that the affect, "character reset" insinuates, is as follows: when a character reset occurs, it will affect all consumers.

So, which one is it?

Before we delve any deeper into this, let's take the following scenario under consideration:

During the last character reset (just prior to the open beta launch) if it had been optional, at that time (during that character reset) to opt out of the reset, would this have been desirable to anyone? Speaking from my own perspective, the answer is yes, and I am quite certain that there are many others out there who share sentiment. The reason for this is because I was quite satisfied with what I had, to that point, accomplished with my character. But would this have been fair to the other consumers that were not satisfied? As so many people are so fond of saying, this is a beta, and as such, "a work in progress", an unfinished product subject to change. Now can the consumer be held financial responsible for the purchase of a product that is subject to change? Take the following as an example:

I walk into a grocery store to which it took me two months to drive to (the only grocery store on the planet infact). I take an apple from the shelf, and take it to the teller in order to purchase it. As the teller swipes the apple across the scanner, to ring up the sale, through some act of magic, the apple suddenly turns into an orange. Is it still my responsibility to purchase the orange? The answer is, most emphatically, no.

Now let's say that there are ten people at the teller with me (all purcasing apples) yet mine is the only one that keeps tuning into an orange. Befuddled, I look around in bewilderment and by chance happen to spot a man in a dress shirt and tie waving a wand everytime the teller tries to scan the apple. He is wearing a name tag, it says: "CCP owner/manager". The man notices me noticing him and promptly approaches me, and the following conversation ensues:

CCP: Hello sir. My name is CCP, I'm the owner. What seems to be the problem?

Bob, the unsatisfied customer: Well, quite frankly I'm trying to buy an apply but it keeps turning into an orange.

CCP: Ahh, i see. We have had this problem happen before. I am afraid that you will have to return to you're place of residence, obtaine a notarized afidavid stating that you have returned to your please of residence, and then return to CCP Mart, at which time, we here a CCP Mart guarantee that the issue will be resolved.

Bob, the unsatisfied customer: but it took me two months to drive to CCP Mart, what about the time and effort I spent to get here?

CCP: I am quite sorry sir. That is CCP Mart policy.

I'll leave it up to your imagination to figure out what bobs reaction is at that point.

So, as we should all plainly be able to see, an option to opt out of a reset is not an ethical/fair one, because all of those satisfied with the game get to continue on being satisfied with the game while those who are not satisfied, loose an irreplaceable set of commodities: time and effort.

Ok, that takes care of the first contested term. Let's move on to the next:

2. Commercial release:

Legally speaking, this is VERY specific, as well as, VERY binding and for good reason: because it removes consumer responsibility to act responsibly with their purchases until CCP makes the consumer aware that the property has been "commercially released"

Regardless of what CCP had intended to mean by "commercial release" is irrelevant. The fact is that the two terms "commercial release" and reset are not connected in any way, no matter how much CCP or any one else, for that mater, wants them to be. By this term, CCP is legally obligated to credit the items in question to any consumer that purchased a Mercenary Pack.

I fully agree with this statement, I (of my own free will) gave money to CCP for Merc Packs and AUR because I wanted the stuff I wanted to get.

I went into the agreement not expecting to get anything back, though also not expecting to lose anything I didn't give away freely.

Anyone who spent money on AUR or Merc Packs or Tank Packs and is now crying for their money back should blame no one save themselves.

The simple fact is that CCP should never have included "commercial release", in the contract literature, if that is not what the were intending to do. it is miss leading in the extreme, and gives those who were mislead by it a valid argument:

I was not responsible with my money because CCP assured me that I did not have to be until the "commercial release".

There is, legally, only three options that CCP can pursue:

1. Reset all player accounts upon-ácommercial release


This is an option that neither the majority of the player base nor CCP themselves want. I can tell you personall that, if my lifetime skill points is reset to zero again, I will no longer be playing this game, and I am sure that there are many others out there who would feel the same, which is the reason why CCP does not desire this option ether.

2. CCP can offer to reset the accounts of any one who wants a Mercenary Pack credit, however, this is entirely unethical toward those who were genuinely mislead by the language of the purchase contract. If this is the path CCP chooses, I will not choose to have my character reset, but neither will I be leaving the game.

3. CCP can take it on the chin like a real man, cut their losses and give out the credits to every one who bought a Mercinary Pack, as to HONOR the original agreement. I would actually consider it a reward to those who helped CCP develop their game in beta. This seems reasonable, and was, in all honesty, what I interpreted this thing to mean when CCP announced that there will be no further "character resets".

And that's my 20 cents worth. Hope this all in some way helped this debacle to get resolved in a desirable fashion that is agreeable to all parties involved.

We're not greedy, we're entitled to it. it CLEARLY differentiates between RESETS and ON RELEASE. Why would they say AND ON RELEASE if they didn't plan on giving it back ON RELEASE? seems pretty clear to me CCP had a mind to give it all back on release, regardless of a reset, and anyone with a basic understanding of english can understand that after reading the merc pack.

Yeah I'll be honest I was pleasantly surprised with the first AUR reset, did not expect that at all. Im playing the game which was free to download and play...CCP has to make money somehow, so I have no issue with no further AUR resets.

Yeah, it was a bit of a pleasant surprise, though it doesn't need to happen again as far as I am concerned.

CCP TAKE MY MONEY PLEASE, JUST GIVE ME A WORKING PRODUCT (NOT LIKE THOSE PRICKS OVER AT EA/ORIGIN)

And dont forget that CCP preserved themself the rights to change their policy about this subject. By buying the merc pack you agreed with the terms and conditions. Basically means you cant do anything about it legally.

We're not greedy, we're entitled to it. it CLEARLY differentiates between RESETS and ON RELEASE. Why would they say AND ON RELEASE if they didn't plan on giving it back ON RELEASE? seems pretty clear to me CCP had a mind to give it all back on release, regardless of a reset, and anyone with a basic understanding of english can understand that after reading the merc pack.

No it didn't. It states that they MAY need to reset during beta and on commercially release, nowhere did it state they would be resetting on commercial release.

You probs used up all the stuff and AUR that you had from the merc pack and now you search for a cheap way to get more out of your money. To be precise you want basically double of the amount that you have spend on merc packs/whatever. You are greedy, a parasite and one of the worst kinds of people. You probs aswell go to McDonalds, order 3 burgers then you go out eat 1 of the burgers in a hurry and then you run back in and say that they have forgotten to put the 3rd burger into the bag and demand that they give it to you. Pathetic scum if you ask me.

Can we limit these to just 10 threads? why do we need so many? no matter how this resolves we are still going to get dozens more threads gloating or pissed off.

Please CCP, DUST Admins, GMs, whatever, make a couple threads "official" and lock all the new ones. Please

Well, I guess they should just stop being greedy fucktards and be happy that they have a Free to Play shooter available.

If they don't like it, they can always GTFO.

Yeah, great response. "you spent real world money and didn't get the stuff you paid for... well the game is Free to Play, if you don't like it GTFO".

I'm sure that sort of response would go over great in the gaming community.

Thing is, you got the stuff you paid for, you just wouldn't be getting it again without paying for it again which is what you want.

You feel that you are entitled to something for free when you're not, it really just boils down to that.

All of the people who are crying for their AUR back are doing the same thing my 5 y/o does when he doesn't get his own way; throwing a tantrum, nothing more, nothing less.

You can spin it however you want, try to get all legalese on it as much as you want but in the end it all boils down to throwing a tantrum like spoilt children.

We're not greedy, we're entitled to it. it CLEARLY differentiates between RESETS and ON RELEASE. Why would they say AND ON RELEASE if they didn't plan on giving it back ON RELEASE? seems pretty clear to me CCP had a mind to give it all back on release, regardless of a reset, and anyone with a basic understanding of english can understand that after reading the merc pack.

I bought stuff like the Merc Pack and extra AUR because I wanted to support CCP and DUST. I have basically bought a new game in terms of what I've spent in total, and for now, that's that. That I got in-game goodies is an added bonus. Having thoroughly read the terms of use and the store descriptions of these real-money purchases, I actually half-expected to see it all disappear once the game exits beta status. Anything they refund or let us keep or goodies they award us for participation is awesome of them, in my book.

That said, it's not necessarily that people are greedy, it's that they're confusing these purchases with buying a finished product or some form of special service rendered. Right now, IMHO, paying CCP money for DUST in any form is kind of like funding a kickstarter project. The way I understand it, they're letting you keep what you paid for, and compensating for things they take away. In other aspects, you have to rely on the company's good will that you will eventually get what you paid for, which you should only do in good faith. They never agreed to anybody paying now, and getting twice their part of the bargain just for being firsties, though.

Takes more than a grasp of English. How about some logic. The original plan was to have a final full reset at launch. The plan changed.

CCP told us this in the following threads Below as well as many players threads I have included asked this same thing over and over and over again. There is no way anyone could mistake the clear decision for 1/10/13 to be the final reset and the last aurum reset. Hell there were even podcasts on the subject with devs saying this in IRC as well.

CCP changed the plan of how they would be doing resets and they let everyone know this. Now magically people somehow believe that CCP should have known their future change of plans ahead of when they first wrote the mercs pack description. I am going to give you all credit for not being so stupid you think CCP knows the future and assume you simply want something for nothing.

Stupidity or greed aside CCP specifically told us that they were making 1/10/13 the LAST reset to give us a little head start on the open beta players as a way of saying thanks to the closed beta players. CCP did the right thing and it was to benefit us to not have to go back to zero and grind it all again. You should be thankful for that rather than trying to get one over on them.

Use some common sense, plans changed. You were informed of the Change and then they changed the wording of the mercs pack to reflect the new plan. If you disagreed with this you should have expressed in the forum or in a petition to CCP BACK THEN that you wanted to have another reset at commercial release to include your SP. If you didn't do it then you are crap out of luck now and have absolutely no leg to stand on with your argument.

So if CCP were to give in and say OK we are going to only reset your aur on may 6 and let you keep the SP this is the last reset (sound kind of familiar I can swear we were already told the 10th was the last reset). I can bet you selfish, cheap, morally bankrupt cry babies would post these same threads the moment a new build was coming and would say well yeah they said its the last reset again but the mercs pack wording said a reset upon commercial release.

How about you quit trying to cheat CCP for making a change in plans to benefit you.

IF you want an aur reset then it should come with a FULL reset like it had every time up to the 10th. If you disagree you are just trying to cheat CCP which in turn is cheating ALL of the players including those like me that have bought 300,000 aur to date. Yes its also trying to cheat me since I have invested in this game in hopes it will succeed and greedy small minded instant gratification children such as you are potentially harming CCP by reducing profit which can be used to make this game better for us all.

Below are just a small sample of the threads including OFFICIAL CCP ones explaining No more resets.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74180
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=50063&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18203&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=50074&find=unread

Noc tempre thread basically Accepting this was the final reset but now he is one of the loudest trying to cheat us all
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=50256&find=unread

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=50302&find=unread
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=461847#post461847

There are tons more with many of the same people who are whining today and back then they accepted it was the last reset. Funny how outraged they are now when we are close to a new build with planetary conquest and they weren't then.

I'm not attacking anyone, I am simply stating how I view things.

In all of the threads I have read where people are demanding that they get their AUR refunded "on commercial release", they're doing little more than having a sophisticated tantrum. They may not be stamping their feet and shrieking at the top of their lungs (IDK though, they might be doing that at their keyboard), but they are nonetheless throwing a tantrum.

I paid for multiple merc packs as well as a tank pack to try them out, you don't see me making childish demands regarding AUR do you? I gave CCP my money because I want to see them succeed with Dust, not because I wanted to get double what I paid for. If CCP halves the price of all things AUR/Dust related, then I might be up in arms about it, until then though, I'm happy with the purchases that I've made.

As of this post, I am washing my hands of this topic. I've made clear my views on the topic and just for clarity's sake, I'll reiterate them below.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________


Anyone demanding CCP refund their AUR is throwing a tantrum no matter how hard they try to sound sophisticated about it. No refund, No SP reset (beyond the respec on the release of Uprising and any other future builds).

HTFU or GTFO

/discussion as far as I am concerned.

We're not greedy, we're entitled to it. it CLEARLY differentiates between RESETS and ON RELEASE. Why would they say AND ON RELEASE if they didn't plan on giving it back ON RELEASE? seems pretty clear to me CCP had a mind to give it all back on release, regardless of a reset, and anyone with a basic understanding of english can understand that after reading the merc pack.

I bought merc packs on either side of them changing the agreement.

Although I am not pushing for a refund, I am watching and enjoying watching people who are acting out of fear they might get reset rally to defend CCPs behaviour in this context. Strange really, the terms of the contract seem quite clear, although I am sure that once some of you look at it with rose tinted glasses you can imagine Baal Roo to be the enemy.

Baal, you are fighting the good fight, keep it up. Don't let these frightened people worry you. Go and get yours brah.

Baal Roo,

You say CCP's plans changing doesn't matter to you and yet I know you have seen the line "Subject to change ".

You also say that none of the threads I posted show where CCP said you would not get your aur refunded again after the 10th.
You are feigning stupidity to not know what the words "last reset" mean In this link which was the migration dev blog I posted earlier http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74180

So Baal am I wrong to assume that you want what was in the mercs pack without a full reset including SP? I am pretty sure that's the case and if so all of your arguments are useless since in reality we both know you want something you didn't pay for. You want the SP you got from the boosters, bpo you bought before the price went up etc. Its also quite disengenuous to be making all this racket right before PC. That's the true motivation right you are looking for an equipment edge.

What is even funnier is this thread below where you call someone a cheap ass over them complaining about UVT prices and you and your aur refund buddies are the definition of cheap asses wanting something they didn't pay for rather than doing what I and most of us will do and buy additional mercs packs when we need them rather than trying to get them free.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=465720#post465720
Baal Roo
#12Posted: 2013.01.12 06:45 | Report
If you play the game enough to WANT to have UVT, and refuse to pay 50-ó a month to the upkeep of the otherwise completely free entertainment, you're a cheap ass.

Perhaps CCP should give all you aur refund guys a tin cup you can carry in the game instead of a rifle. They did say they could substitute items.

You also say that if CCP doesn't let you cheat them and us players that purchased merc packs that are not looking for an unwarranted aur refund (some players think CCP making a profit is good for the games long term success) that you are going to qwit and take yoo ball home and tell the whole 600 in your corp you are leaving.
Good riddance.
I am sure dust can survive without you and anyone that agrees with you that cheating CCP out of profit and in effect cheating other honest customers is OK. I hope CCP does the right thing here for us honest customers you are trying to cheat and tells you cheap asses to do what the rest of us do when we want a mercs pack, WE PAY FOR IT since the last reset was 1/10/13

IMO I think CCP should offer everyone a choice during "commercial release", Total reset (sp, aurum, items, everything) or keep what you have. Me personally I would keep what I have because I would not want to loss all that hard earned sp and I would not want to pay full price for the BPO items I got for sooo much less.

You cannot bully me into accepting a reset to get what we agreed upon when purchasing. AKA Bullying.

You cannot bully me into accepting a reset to get what we agreed upon when purchasing. AKA Bullying.

More like ransom

The merc pack must be "credited in full", that means that come commercial release you're character must posses each item that was included in the merc pack, or "an item of equal worth". By allowing you to keep any boosted SP, CCP have already credited "an item of equal worth to you", since the boosted SP is of equal worth to the booster you used to obtain it.

That means CCP does not have to give you another booster when they re-credit the rest of your merc pack.

You didn't use the booster to it's fullest potential? That's your problem.

You cannot bully me into accepting a reset to get what we agreed upon when purchasing. AKA Bullying.

You work for CCP now ?

Link?

the main reason I want a refund is that after the last wipe i bought a load of active boosters and plugged them in, and since i have gotten bored of this game due to lack of content update and the same bugs that could have been fixed by now.

They do not have to bully you, CCP reserves the right to reset you character at any point during the beta. So really a choice would them being nice.

lol this discussion is hillarious. Allmost like watching a child pulling up a tantrum cause you refuse to give it candy. Usually the kid gets slapped and told off not to do that. And the same will happend for those who demand a full set of purchased items for no reason at all. Dont get me wrong i did bought 3 merc packs cause of the fancy 30 day boosters and AUR to get the passive boosters for a maximum SP gain. Sure would be nice to have additional stuff for aboslute no reason but on the other hand its just greed that motivates the people on these topics. And if we go into "comercial release" the merc pack price wont change and you will aswell only get 1 set of the promoted items not 2 when buying it after that point. CCP could aswell just claim that the open beta start was the comercial release and with that kick every 1 in the butt. Cause at that point we had a char reset and full reimbursment of the purchased items. I think CCP should man up and declare the open beta entry as comercial release and we would be done with this silly discussion. But then people would rage why they didnt got the double of the promoted items. You can basically say that the open beta was the comercial release cause it got very big advertised on the PSN store, you can buy multiple packs for it and every 1 whos has a PSN account can download the client for free without signing up for a beta code.

Here you go

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=68925&p=3

I would expect as much from a child. You get upset when you are arguing and cannot make a vaild point. I sorry.

Yes the can reset my character and yours too but they legally have to return all purchased merc packs as per our agreement.

Being "nice" is not forcing me to take a reset to have my already agree too items returned. Otherwise I would be forced to leave them behind to stay in my current state and not receive everything we both agreed too.

Bro... you don't even qualify. Only people who bought the merc pack do, unless you bought those boosters with Aurum from the merc pack.

lol What does whether I workfor CCP, or not, have to do with anything? I'm simply pointing out what they could argue, because it's what I would argue.

The merc pack says "credited in full" and that they reserve the right to substitute things for "items of equal value". That means that if you got 50 dragonfly scout suits with the merc pack and then you lost 15, then you must receive 15 dragonfly scout suits so that you posses 50 again. It does not mean you get another 50. That extends to the boosters, and Aurum, that came with the merc pack, as long as you keep anything you gained from using them, then "items of equal worth" have been credited to your account.

Correct. But if I bought for example 25 merc packs and totally used up 22 of them (25-22=3 keep up) they would still be responsible for refunding the other 22 merc packs. Agreed?

Okay well what if CCP said okay we have heard all of your QQing and are going to do a complete character/merc pack reset during commercial release to for fill their contractual agreement.

Yes.

Yes. But it's "re-crediting" not "refunding" and it applies to each item within those merc packs, not the entire thing. You'd still only have 25 toxin BPOs, since they didn't get used up.

I'm cool with that. I just want everything we ( CCP and I) agreed upon when I purchased said merc packs.

Great. Now to the point where it was stated that when I bought the the merc packs they would be refunded on resets and commercial release. Commercial release is yet to happen. Agreed?

Okay So what would be wrong with doing that but giving the option for the player not to be reset.

Yeah, I guess... I'd call this CR, but my opinion on that is irrelevant.

Edit: But it's "re-crediting" not "refunding" and it applies to each item within those merc packs, not the entire thing. You'd still only have 25 toxin BPOs, since they didn't get used up.

Edit 2: Just saw the other post, so ignore the first edit.

See why this is an issue that needs official clarification?

Because CCP hasn't given an official response to the issue, and people are impatient

Closed beta version of Merc Pack description, courtesy of Deluxe Edition and DUST 411.

That says very clearly that people who purchased the Merc Pack on those terms are entitled to a reset of our Merc Pack with every character reset, AND a reset of the Merc Pack at commercial release - REGARDLESS of whether there's a character reset for commercial release or not.

The wording is clear and specific and easily understood.

It doesn't guarantee a reset or lack thereof. It only guarantees a credit of all Merc Pack contents, meaning that we SHOULD be getting everything back when the game is officially released.

Because you are forcing me to either keep what I currently have or give everything up and restart to get what I purchased. See my point?

No I do not understand your point how is it forcing you is they could just do the reset anyways.

It's forcing (Bullying) because it's one or the other.

BTW CCP has stated no more resets (back to zero) period unless something catastrophic happens. This is not catastrophic.

CCP needs to man up and accept their losses or risk getting a bad name and losing paying customers.

Okay I concede to have completely different opinions on the topic.

That's cool. I agree to disagree. No hard feelings.

I've removed some trolling from this thread.

Please note we'll be releasing full details of what will happen with people who purchased Merc Packs which contained such language in the near future.

I've removed some trolling from this thread.

Please note we'll be releasing full details of what will happen with people who purchased Merc Packs which contained such language in the near future.

I've removed some trolling from this thread.

Please note we'll be releasing full details of what will happen with people who purchased Merc Packs which contained such language in the near future.

Way out is easy. On commercial release allow people to RESET their account -- all characters are wiped to initial SP/ISK level, all AUR is reimbursed and all assignable items are ready to be assigned again.

This way they are given their precious AUR back and can STFU. T&Cs don't say that it can not be done this way, so please CCP, consider this.

Or.... wait for it........ Ccp could honor the original terms and all the jelly people can stfu?
Your opinion and feelings have no effect on the contents of the closed beta merc pack. 'refund at commercial release' is 1 of the items i purchased.

If you do it for 1 person do it for everybody. Don't punish those who are actually supporting CCP by buying the merc packs. Those players are in it for the long term.

I've removed some trolling from this thread.

Please note we'll be releasing full details of what will happen with people who purchased Merc Packs which contained such language in the near future.

No, it should be done per request, so promise to keep SP from beginning on open beta can be kept. They want their AUR back? Sure, they start clean (RESET) with everything from their merc packs refunded. There will be no "I got advantage from AUR and then got AUR back" topics in the forum. This will be fair and will let people choose.

Otherwise just re-spec and have a good time.

I've bought two merc packs, spent boosters and AUR, I'm happy with it. I would like to keep my inventory and character as is and buy more merc packs when they are offered. I support CCP by giving them my own, hard earned money, not by taking money away. Everybody started grinding like crazy on open beta and hailed "no more resets, go go go", but now you bastards want to get AUR back, because that's in the TOS? Cheap kittens, reset is too good for the lot of you.

Sounds like you are only looking out for yourself and have not read this entire thread.

Your reset idea is only good for people who did not buy any merc packs or only one or two, while hurting others who bought more (it's Bullying).

If ppl want ther AUR back along with boosters then ask for a reset where your character is completely wiped of all SP/ISK and items you have collected through the beta

You would start off at 0, square 1 and that is the only way

What we are getting on the 6th of may is an SP reallocation which is not a reset thus you get nothing back

I am not greedy I am just used to hold people accountable.

1. I purchased a deal and I want CCP to come through with it with no gimmics intended to weasel their way out of it. I paid money and expect back the promised product/service just as promised on the release.

2. People who whine about this in the vast majority were too cheap to buy any packs or aurum. It's the people who don't give a damn and want a freebie. They are not the ones paying their hard earned money to support the developer. And then you see these same ppl crawl out of somewhere and start pontificating about greed. I find it ironic.

Because you said so? **** off troll.

The merc pack must be "credited in full", that means that come commercial release you're character must posses each item that was included in the merc pack, or "an item of equal worth". By allowing you to keep any boosted SP, CCP have already credited "an item of equal worth to you", since the boosted SP is of equal worth to the booster you used to obtain it.

That means CCP does not have to give you another booster when they re-credit the rest of your merc pack.

You didn't use the booster to it's fullest potential? That's your problem.

As far as I understand we will be keeping all of our gear and SP from beta to commercial release
(If I am wrong on this then my whole premise is flawed. Even if it's ONLY SP then I'm still happy)

I bought the Assault BPO and Logi BPO because I thought we were getting a AUR reset. "**** it, I'll see which one I prefer and buy that in the release". Then when I heard we're getting to keep our SP it's like "WOOHOO! fuckign keep my aurum! I just got a months of free SP, would need a **** load of boosters for that".

Am I correct in the "no SP reset"?
If so, who cares? it's tens of thousands worth of boosters we're getting

Its more of a SP reallocation

So say you have 8mil in SP in various skills, well what happens is they take the SP off all the skills and give it back to you in a lump some so you can put them all back into whatever you want

Also you get back all the ISK for buying the books so you can rebuy the books without spending more ISK

AUR will most likely not be refuneded, most likely due to the fact that the majority bought the AUR for boosters and its how they ended up with 9mil

I mean i have 8.5mil and if i wanted my AUR back then i would expect to go back to 0 SP since i used my AUR for boosters and without the booster i would be at 4mil

Yeah that's more or less what I expected. As such all this discussion about getting AUR refunds baffles me.

Keep my ******* AUR as long as I can have my SP

Exactly right

Those who want an AUR refund just want to use all the boosters again and add to the SP they already have

Notice how many do not want a full reset including items/SP and ISK for them to get the full amount of AUR back

Plenty of people are greedy, it's arguably human nature. However, plenty of us were expecting a SP reset, on commercial release when we purchased the merc packs, are still okay with one (and are even beginning to prefer one over all this nonsense), and expect to get our merc packs refunded to us upon commercial release.

Just because a good number of vocal people trying to get more than they deserve exist doesn't mean they aren't entitled to at least part of what they are arguing for. I sincerely wish CCP would never have caved to all the QQ threads about not wanting any more SP resets, but alas, here we are.

Why would anyone assume that "last reset" means "we have nullified the agreement of the Merc Pack, you will not be receiving the rest of your purchase"? That would be an absolutely ridiculous assumption.



I want what I paid for, a refund of all Merc Pack items at Commercial Release. This has nothing to do with the May 6th Uprising update, because Uprising is not yet "commercial release".



This isn't about the money, it's about principle. I completely disagree with the assessment that I "want something I didn't pay for", because I DID pay for a Merc Pack. I am simply advocating to receive the entirety of the content that I purchased, which again, included a full refund of all items at commercial release.

The UVT is $.50 a month, and it's clear in the description what you are purchasing. If someone said "I bought a 30 day UVT, but it only lasted 15 days" I would be 100% on their side. Seems YOU would be arguing "well, they changed their plans, now the 30 day UVTs are 15 days, HTFU". Again, it's not the price that matters, it's the principle. You don't change a product sell to someone AFTER they purchase it. That's just slimy.



You are the one advocating to "cheat" Merc Pack purchasers out of part of their purchase. This whole thing is about principle. You don't sell someone a product and then ex post facto decide "well, you only get half of this stuff because we have 'changed our plans' ". That is despicable behavior. Why would anyone want to play a game where the developer sells players a product, and then removes half of the items they purchased with no equal value replacement?

I honestly don't understand your argument man. I can't figure out where your motivation is derived from. We purchased Merc Packs that were specifically designed and marketed to us as a way to prepurchase items for Commercial Release, and now 6-9 months from Commercial Release still inside the Beta, you don't think we should get those items on release and should be happy to have them used-up in a beta with 10% of the content here.

I wonder if maybe you weren't around a year ago when they first started selling these, and thus don't understand how hard they pushed them as a "prepurchase for launch" and how they assured us over and over again that "it would be wrong to charge you real world money for Beta items".

The logic answer to the AUR refund problem is a full SP reset (SP back to 500,000). You know they can do it if they want to since there's no wording about not resetting SP. You get all your AUR back but you'll have to grind again. It's one of the reasons some of us don't care about AUR refund and are happy enough with the SP refund of May 6th.

Way out is easy. On commercial release allow people to RESET their account -- all characters are wiped to initial SP/ISK level, all AUR is reimbursed and all assignable items are ready to be assigned again.

This way they are given their precious AUR back and can STFU. T&Cs don't say that it can not be done this way, so please CCP, consider this.

I've read it and I'm saying -- give people a fair choice. You're saying -- bullying. Seems to me that you're running a scam here and trying to get as much people as possible to whine with you, just to kitten with CCP and force their hand. And you dare to speak about supporting them at the same time. Are you stupid or trolling?

Getting AUR back without reset is unfair. You got your moneys worth, and want to hold to it while you get your money back. Can't spell it any other way -- you're a scammer. Deal with it.

As you recall the uvt price was changed. I bought a bunch on the tenth and then they changed the price and reversed my purchase with no notice to me and others. That I would agree was wrong and I expressed my feelings to CCP in a petition. I didn't see people then screaming about it and many told those of us that bought them cheaper oh well the price changed.This is completely different.

We were informed of the change before it happened.

In your world CCP can never make a change to plans for fear of this kind of crap.

As far as how long I have been around, look up my history I have been in the beta since about 2 weeks after it started before eve pilots were even given keys. Most of the mercs packs I bought were the "old" description in about the amount of 240,000 aur so I would have a lot to gain by agreeing with you on this subject.
The ONLY way I would think this would be fair to return the aur would be if it came with a full reset but that isn't what you want which says your position is based on greed not fairness.

Take it up with CCP, they are the ones who sold the Merc Pack and set the commercial release time table. Don't punish players who support the company with resets.

All in all, it looks like CCP fully intends to honor their agreement, so the argument is moot aside from marveling at the glorious white knights.

LOL, well aren't you a super special snowflake, you justice defending CCP supporter, you.

And here my whole life I thought that you can either eat the cake or have it. Because in real world you can not get your money back and keep the goods, why would you think it would work here? Goods or money back. It's not "punishment" it's how exchanging goods for money works.

And I for one am not marveling at the amount of self entitled douchebags trolling these lands. Bunch of whiners constantly bitching about everything, you've been ruining the game for a year now. Great job! Moreover you're pushing us towards global SP reset and if you succeed, then congrats, as this will be the best mass troll so far.

And good luck taking CCP to court over this when your campaign fails, I'm sure they're not ready for you after running EVE for 10 years. I'm almost certain, that they've already soiled their breeches and are ready to surrender. Godspeed.

We're not greedy, we're entitled to it. it CLEARLY differentiates between RESETS and ON RELEASE. Why would they say AND ON RELEASE if they didn't plan on giving it back ON RELEASE? seems pretty clear to me CCP had a mind to give it all back on release, regardless of a reset, and anyone with a basic understanding of english can understand that after reading the merc pack.

this is dismissive BULL ****! I have spent hundreds of dollars on merc packs and aurum with the understanding that the benefits I gained from it would not disappear with out a refund. To ask any more is absolute bull ****, are you caring the benefits of the money you spent into the final release? yes! so any other pursuit of this is nothing less then abuse of law under the self righteous guise of holding a company to its contracts, or plain selfishness. frank you I hope all of you that asked for refunds are offered full resets or the door, becuase **** you.

The issue I see is that CCP released the game a while ago, but did not say they did. And instead claim may is the real release, even though all assets are not going to be reset.

The issue I see is that CCP released the game a while ago, but did not say they did. And instead claim may is the real release, even though all assets are not going to be reset.