If they don't reset SP, what about AUR used to buy boosters? What about all the cheap BPOs we purchased before the price hike? I kinda hope they DON'T reset AUR, I want to keep all my stuff

Alright... *cracks knuckles* ...amateur hour is over. Time to get down to brass tacks with this subject (this is truly a snafu of the first magnitude).

Let's do some ethics (hope you packed a lunch):

First, it is necessary for us to CLEARLY define the terminology that was used, and is currently under debate now - in as far as, how it may have -ábeen defined by the consumer, as well as, how CCP may have intended it to be defined, both in light of the actual literal interpretations of said terms.

-áTerms currently under debate:

GÇó Mercenary Pack
GÇó Credited in full
GÇó Character reset
GÇó Commercial release

"...Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514 account after each character reset AND for the commercial release."

(emphasis added)

I am, of course, assuming that the above quote is accurate.

"Mercenary pack" is easy. We all know what it is and what it contains.

"Credited in full", like above, is also VERY clear.

"Character reset", now here is we're we star to run into some problems. What exactly is a character reset (in as far as, both the paying customer and CCP may have defined it).

"Commercial release", and again we run into the same problem as above: what exactly does a "commercial release" Intel?

Let's explore the contested terms.

1. Character reset:

As a consumer, there are two ways to interpret this phrase:

1. Singular: "my character will be reset". This excludes the necessity for the consumer to concern themselves with any other consumer who may have purchased the "Mercenary Pack". In essence, in this interpretation, the consumers purchase occurred in a vacuum.

2. Plural: "all consumers are subject (SUBJECT not entitled) to a reset when it occurs. In this interpretation, the consumer is buying the "Mercenary Pack" with the understanding that the affect, "character reset" insinuates, is as follows: when a character reset occurs, it will affect all consumers.

So, which one is it?

Before we delve any deeper into this, let's take the following scenario under consideration:

During the last character reset (just prior to the open beta launch) if it had been optional, at that time (during that character reset) to opt out of the reset, would this have been desirable to anyone? Speaking from my own perspective, the answer is yes, and I am quite certain that there are many others out there who share sentiment. The reason for this is because I was quite satisfied with what I had, to that point, accomplished with my character. But would this have been fair to the other consumers that were not satisfied? As so many people are so fond of saying, this is a beta, and as such, "a work in progress", an unfinished product subject to change. Now can the consumer be held financial responsible for the purchase of a product that is subject to change? Take the following as an example:

I walk into a grocery store to which it took me two months to drive to (the only grocery store on the planet infact). I take an apple from the shelf, and take it to the teller in order to purchase it. As the teller swipes the apple across the scanner, to ring up the sale, through some act of magic, the apple suddenly turns into an orange. Is it still my responsibility to purchase the orange? The answer is, most emphatically, no.

Now let's say that there are ten people at the teller with me (all purcasing apples) yet mine is the only one that keeps tuning into an orange. Befuddled, I look around in bewilderment and by chance happen to spot a man in a dress shirt and tie waving a wand everytime the teller tries to scan the apple. He is wearing a name tag, it says: "CCP owner/manager". The man notices me noticing him and promptly approaches me, and the following conversation ensues:

CCP: Hello sir. My name is CCP, I'm the owner. What seems to be the problem?

Bob, the unsatisfied customer: Well, quite frankly I'm trying to buy an apply but it keeps turning into an orange.

CCP: Ahh, i see. We have had this problem happen before. I am afraid that you will have to return to you're place of residence, obtaine a notarized afidavid stating that you have returned to your please of residence, and then return to CCP Mart, at which time, we here a CCP Mart guarantee that the issue will be resolved.

Bob, the unsatisfied customer: but it took me two months to drive to CCP Mart, what about the time and effort I spent to get here?

CCP: I am quite sorry sir. That is CCP Mart policy.

I'll leave it up to your imagination to figure out what bobs reaction is at that point.

So, as we should all plainly be able to see, an option to opt out of a reset is not an ethical/fair one, because all of those satisfied with the game get to continue on being satisfied with the game while those who are not satisfied, loose an irreplaceable set of commodities: time and effort.

Ok, that takes care of the first contested term. Let's move on to the next:

2. Commercial release:

Legally speaking, this is VERY specific, as well as, VERY binding and for good reason: because it removes consumer responsibility to act responsibly with their purchases until CCP makes the consumer aware that the property has been "commercially released"

Regardless of what CCP had intended to mean by "commercial release" is irrelevant. The fact is that the two terms "commercial release" and reset are not connected in any way, no matter how much CCP or any one else, for that mater, wants them to be. By this term, CCP is legally obligated to credit the items in question to any consumer that purchased a Mercenary Pack.

I fully agree with this statement, I (of my own free will) gave money to CCP for Merc Packs and AUR because I wanted the stuff I wanted to get.

I went into the agreement not expecting to get anything back, though also not expecting to lose anything I didn't give away freely.

Anyone who spent money on AUR or Merc Packs or Tank Packs and is now crying for their money back should blame no one save themselves.

The simple fact is that CCP should never have included "commercial release", in the contract literature, if that is not what the were intending to do. it is miss leading in the extreme, and gives those who were mislead by it a valid argument:

I was not responsible with my money because CCP assured me that I did not have to be until the "commercial release".

There is, legally, only three options that CCP can pursue:

1. Reset all player accounts upon-ácommercial release


This is an option that neither the majority of the player base nor CCP themselves want. I can tell you personall that, if my lifetime skill points is reset to zero again, I will no longer be playing this game, and I am sure that there are many others out there who would feel the same, which is the reason why CCP does not desire this option ether.

2. CCP can offer to reset the accounts of any one who wants a Mercenary Pack credit, however, this is entirely unethical toward those who were genuinely mislead by the language of the purchase contract. If this is the path CCP chooses, I will not choose to have my character reset, but neither will I be leaving the game.

3. CCP can take it on the chin like a real man, cut their losses and give out the credits to every one who bought a Mercinary Pack, as to HONOR the original agreement. I would actually consider it a reward to those who helped CCP develop their game in beta. This seems reasonable, and was, in all honesty, what I interpreted this thing to mean when CCP announced that there will be no further "character resets".

And that's my 20 cents worth. Hope this all in some way helped this debacle to get resolved in a desirable fashion that is agreeable to all parties involved.

We're not greedy, we're entitled to it. it CLEARLY differentiates between RESETS and ON RELEASE. Why would they say AND ON RELEASE if they didn't plan on giving it back ON RELEASE? seems pretty clear to me CCP had a mind to give it all back on release, regardless of a reset, and anyone with a basic understanding of english can understand that after reading the merc pack.

Yeah I'll be honest I was pleasantly surprised with the first AUR reset, did not expect that at all. Im playing the game which was free to download and play...CCP has to make money somehow, so I have no issue with no further AUR resets.

Yeah, it was a bit of a pleasant surprise, though it doesn't need to happen again as far as I am concerned.

CCP TAKE MY MONEY PLEASE, JUST GIVE ME A WORKING PRODUCT (NOT LIKE THOSE PRICKS OVER AT EA/ORIGIN)

And dont forget that CCP preserved themself the rights to change their policy about this subject. By buying the merc pack you agreed with the terms and conditions. Basically means you cant do anything about it legally.

We're not greedy, we're entitled to it. it CLEARLY differentiates between RESETS and ON RELEASE. Why would they say AND ON RELEASE if they didn't plan on giving it back ON RELEASE? seems pretty clear to me CCP had a mind to give it all back on release, regardless of a reset, and anyone with a basic understanding of english can understand that after reading the merc pack.

No it didn't. It states that they MAY need to reset during beta and on commercially release, nowhere did it state they would be resetting on commercial release.

You probs used up all the stuff and AUR that you had from the merc pack and now you search for a cheap way to get more out of your money. To be precise you want basically double of the amount that you have spend on merc packs/whatever. You are greedy, a parasite and one of the worst kinds of people. You probs aswell go to McDonalds, order 3 burgers then you go out eat 1 of the burgers in a hurry and then you run back in and say that they have forgotten to put the 3rd burger into the bag and demand that they give it to you. Pathetic scum if you ask me.

Can we limit these to just 10 threads? why do we need so many? no matter how this resolves we are still going to get dozens more threads gloating or pissed off.

Please CCP, DUST Admins, GMs, whatever, make a couple threads "official" and lock all the new ones. Please

Well, I guess they should just stop being greedy fucktards and be happy that they have a Free to Play shooter available.

If they don't like it, they can always GTFO.

Yeah, great response. "you spent real world money and didn't get the stuff you paid for... well the game is Free to Play, if you don't like it GTFO".

I'm sure that sort of response would go over great in the gaming community.

Thing is, you got the stuff you paid for, you just wouldn't be getting it again without paying for it again which is what you want.

You feel that you are entitled to something for free when you're not, it really just boils down to that.

All of the people who are crying for their AUR back are doing the same thing my 5 y/o does when he doesn't get his own way; throwing a tantrum, nothing more, nothing less.

You can spin it however you want, try to get all legalese on it as much as you want but in the end it all boils down to throwing a tantrum like spoilt children.

We're not greedy, we're entitled to it. it CLEARLY differentiates between RESETS and ON RELEASE. Why would they say AND ON RELEASE if they didn't plan on giving it back ON RELEASE? seems pretty clear to me CCP had a mind to give it all back on release, regardless of a reset, and anyone with a basic understanding of english can understand that after reading the merc pack.

I bought stuff like the Merc Pack and extra AUR because I wanted to support CCP and DUST. I have basically bought a new game in terms of what I've spent in total, and for now, that's that. That I got in-game goodies is an added bonus. Having thoroughly read the terms of use and the store descriptions of these real-money purchases, I actually half-expected to see it all disappear once the game exits beta status. Anything they refund or let us keep or goodies they award us for participation is awesome of them, in my book.

That said, it's not necessarily that people are greedy, it's that they're confusing these purchases with buying a finished product or some form of special service rendered. Right now, IMHO, paying CCP money for DUST in any form is kind of like funding a kickstarter project. The way I understand it, they're letting you keep what you paid for, and compensating for things they take away. In other aspects, you have to rely on the company's good will that you will eventually get what you paid for, which you should only do in good faith. They never agreed to anybody paying now, and getting twice their part of the bargain just for being firsties, though.